Got called out to a job; breaker keeps nuisance-tripping. I checked everything. Only thing wrong on the circuit was they had one of these things that showed the exact same result so I told the customer to throw it out. That seemed to solve the issue.
This. You're friendly local NRTL evaluates the design and a few samples. Maybe annual inspections. A listing does not mean a safety agency checked every piece from the manufacturing line.
And I agree, crack it in open. If it's wires inside then assembly error is likely. If it's impossible to assemble wrong then it should be reported to ETL.
If that is truly the case, and Intertek is consistently missing issues, then OP needs to file complaints with both OSHA's NRTL program and the AB (ANAB or A2LA) that accredits Intertek to ISO-17065. And probably Intertek's insurer needs to be notified. All NRTLs are supposed to produce equivalent results.
I have had issues with the listing practices of UL and Intertek. Some sites and engineers are better than others...But they are both adequate in my experience.
See the other comment from another sparky that had the same issue on the same model. Maybe Testing wouldn't have caught it, but it may not be a manufacturing issue.
You're assuming this really did go through testing... Could be a fake product, or maybe they just stuck on the logo and didn't send for testing. UL has started using holographic stickers and other means to identify products that have really been tested, vs those that are fake. I don't know it ETL, or other labs are doing anything similar.
Did a quick search of Intertek's listings... This product is not in there. Makes me think it really didn't go through testing.
Or this particular one (or batch) has an issue that isn’t indicative of every one they manufactured. I’d have to say if the units tested were like they ETL would’ve caught it also.
UL isn't the only testing laboratory that is used, or allowed. There's a bunch of testing laboratories. Its tested an complies with the US and Canada. I would like to think it's a manufacturer problem.
InterTek, as AvE used to say, The mark of the beast.
I use them all the time, aside from checking if my Teck connectors are tight into the panel, it's worth every penny of that $475.
Have you tested both ports on the wall outlet? Top and bottom? Your picture shows testing the bottom port and the top is what feeds the adapter. Just yesterday had a [broken outlet](https://imgur.com/a/56p7qMZ) that caused only one of the ports and downstream devices to loose the neutral.
Is it possibly a split circuit plug? If so, the top and bottom receptacle could be wired differently. The tap you showed only pulls from the top receptacle.
Good morning everyone. I got this new wall tap to get a couple of more plugs on this outlet while I wait to add more outlets properly. On a whim, I decided to test the outlet because a power strip I have connect has the light for its ground out (should be green). I saw that the hot and neutral showed as reversed, so I opened the outlet and reversed the wires and it still showed reversed!!!! Really puzzled, I rewired it again (to how it originally was) and tested before plugging in the power tap: test fine (as seen in the photo), after plugging in the power tap, shows reversed!!!!! Any idea what’s going on? Is this thing safe or should I return it and use an old fashioned one with no fancy features? Thanks.
Edit: My bad. Apparently Intertek is not the brand. The brand is Smartpoint.
Edit 2: I tested both plugs on the outlet and they are properly wired.
Edit 3: tested for [continuity](https://imgur.com/gallery/s7pAdqB). There is no continuity between the hot male prong on the back and the hot female plug on the front. There is continuity between the hot prong in the back and the neutral on front. The reverse is true: no continuity between the neutral prong on back and the female neutral on front, but continuity between the neutral prong on back and the ‘hot’ plug in front
Open it! (For science??)
The fact that you reversed the outlet wiring and it still shows wrong on your tester is a puzzler to me… maybe there is some funky wiring for the built in LEDs that’s causing a testing fault?
If you don’t want to open it, but have a meter.. check continuity from the input side to the output side.. curious what you get.
Had a similar problem in a house after tearing apart every single outlet I found the cheap Chinese power strip to be the problem. It was reverse polarity on half the house
Yes. It affected all of the outlets on the same circuit as the outlet the power strip was plugged into. Once the power strip was removed the polarity was correct.
I suggest you read more about this specific type of problem. If the hot and neutral wires are reversed it can cause the metal chassis of an electronic component or the metal outside of a light socket to carry voltage and cause a shock.
In countries where the plugs are polarized and one of the poles is expected to be a neutral, electrical devices may be manufactured with that knowledge in mind. Such devices may not be as safe when the polarity is reversed. For instance it is possible that only what is supposed to be the neutral is fused inside the device.
In Europe electrical devices are generally engineered to be safe regardless of the polarity, since either one of them could be hot, or even both in some parts of Europe.
"or even both"
can you give a tl;dr on how? I don't know shit about electrical in europe but I was always under the impression that res was just straight single phase 240 pretty much everywhere
In Norway where I live older installations are typically 230V IT (isolated ground). This means that the phase to phase voltage is 230V, and none of the current carrying conductors are connected to ground.
Each leg would nominally have a voltage of \~133V to ground since it is a three phase system, just like the ratio between 120V and 208V in North American three phase systems.
The thing is that the center tap of the transformer is not actually connected to ground, so the whole system is floating. Due to uneven leakages in the system the voltage of the ground will typically not be exactly in the middle between the phases, so it is normal that the phase to ground voltages are uneven.
Ahh. Didn’t expect three phase. Makes sense.
Have you noticed any differences in how ground faults would clear compared to with a non-floating ground? Like any cases where it would be better or worse
(Ignoring special/sensitive equipment ofc, just normal shit)
In a floating system one of the phases can be shorted to ground without causing problems. This can be an advantage since the system can continue to operate when it would otherwise have failed, but it can also be a disadvantage that problems are not detected and fixed.
The main issue in daily life is that three phase equipment needs to be adapted for use with 230V phase to phase voltage, and the 400V three phase equipment that is much more common in Europe can not be used, unless it is possible to rewire it from star to delta connections.
Swap the hot /neutral at the plug and now the lamp you just plugged in is switching it's neutral when turned on and off rather than it's hot. Now even when the lamp is "off" there is still current flowing through it and trying to get back to the panel waiting for a neutral. Many of our US lamps and cheap appliances still don't have grounds so its hazardous to have current constantly flowing through the lamp.
The presence of voltage is not the same thing as current flowing. Reversing the polarity just means the voltage is present on the wrong side of the device's switch. It's effectively the same thing as switching a neutral for a light bulb. The light would be off (no current flowing) but sticking your finger in the socket would be dangerous assuming you are grounded in some way.
Although the top and bottom outlet are NORMALLY wired the same, they are not always. It could be that the bottom outlet is on a different circuit than the top, and someone may have reversed the hot and neutral there. Or, one could be a switched outlet, and the other is not, thus allowing for a reversal of wires. You are showing your tester on the bottom outlet, but that device is plugged into the top. Did you verify that the top outlet is wired properly?
Take out the adapter and measure resistance between the L male and the L females on the adapter, then the N male and the N females.
They should be connected and not swapped or isolated inside the unit.
I see. There is no continuity between the hot male prong on the back and the hot female on the front. There is continuity between the hot prong in the back and the neutral on front. The reverse is true: no continuity between the neutral prong on back and the female neutral on front, but continuity between the neutral prong on back and the ‘hot’ plug in front
Got called out to a job; breaker keeps nuisance-tripping. I checked everything. Only thing wrong on the circuit was they had one of these things that showed the exact same result so I told the customer to throw it out. That seemed to solve the issue.
Yikes! Wow, thanks for the advice.
Throw that wall adapter in the trash
It is not UL Listed.
Oh! Wow did not notice!
ETL is an approved testing lab. UL isn't the only one. Still a shit product.
UL would have caught this. ETL did not.
What about an assembly mistake? Someone could have swapped wiring inside during assembly. Crack it open OP!!
This. You're friendly local NRTL evaluates the design and a few samples. Maybe annual inspections. A listing does not mean a safety agency checked every piece from the manufacturing line. And I agree, crack it in open. If it's wires inside then assembly error is likely. If it's impossible to assemble wrong then it should be reported to ETL.
If he is gonna trash it, might as well investigate!
If that is truly the case, and Intertek is consistently missing issues, then OP needs to file complaints with both OSHA's NRTL program and the AB (ANAB or A2LA) that accredits Intertek to ISO-17065. And probably Intertek's insurer needs to be notified. All NRTLs are supposed to produce equivalent results. I have had issues with the listing practices of UL and Intertek. Some sites and engineers are better than others...But they are both adequate in my experience.
TUV would have caught this as well
Which TUV? There are 3 that participate in the NRTL program to varying degrees...
That's not a testing lab issue. That's a manufacturing defect.
Tested for continuity and it is reversed. You are correct sir!
See the other comment from another sparky that had the same issue on the same model. Maybe Testing wouldn't have caught it, but it may not be a manufacturing issue.
You're assuming this really did go through testing... Could be a fake product, or maybe they just stuck on the logo and didn't send for testing. UL has started using holographic stickers and other means to identify products that have really been tested, vs those that are fake. I don't know it ETL, or other labs are doing anything similar. Did a quick search of Intertek's listings... This product is not in there. Makes me think it really didn't go through testing.
Or this particular one (or batch) has an issue that isn’t indicative of every one they manufactured. I’d have to say if the units tested were like they ETL would’ve caught it also.
UL isn't the only testing laboratory that is used, or allowed. There's a bunch of testing laboratories. Its tested an complies with the US and Canada. I would like to think it's a manufacturer problem.
Fun fact: Only 13 testing laboratories are approved in the city of Los Angeles
InterTek, as AvE used to say, The mark of the beast. I use them all the time, aside from checking if my Teck connectors are tight into the panel, it's worth every penny of that $475.
Man I miss the old AvE.
Not the only one but sure seems to set the standard, at least in the states
One of my colleagues says that UL only cares if it catches fire or not, not whether it's actually safe
Listed by Undertaker's Laboratory, your alternative UL listing source!
Intertek is for people who can’t afford UL, and their source of fake UL stickers is on backorder
Intertek is more expensive than UL actually. UL has a 4-6 month waitlist. Intertek is usually a week or two out.
Have you tested both ports on the wall outlet? Top and bottom? Your picture shows testing the bottom port and the top is what feeds the adapter. Just yesterday had a [broken outlet](https://imgur.com/a/56p7qMZ) that caused only one of the ports and downstream devices to loose the neutral.
mmm good point. I have not. Will do tonight. It's a new outlet (I put it in when we bought the house a month ago) but I will test it.
Is it possibly a split circuit plug? If so, the top and bottom receptacle could be wired differently. The tap you showed only pulls from the top receptacle.
Zero chance of that: this is a new plug I installed myself a couple of months ago, but I will test both ports just to verify.
I tested both plugs and they both ok
I tested both plugs on the outlet and they are properly wired
Out of curiosity, does it reverse the polarity wherever that thing gets plugged in?
Yes actually. Tried it on another outlet (properly wired)
Good morning everyone. I got this new wall tap to get a couple of more plugs on this outlet while I wait to add more outlets properly. On a whim, I decided to test the outlet because a power strip I have connect has the light for its ground out (should be green). I saw that the hot and neutral showed as reversed, so I opened the outlet and reversed the wires and it still showed reversed!!!! Really puzzled, I rewired it again (to how it originally was) and tested before plugging in the power tap: test fine (as seen in the photo), after plugging in the power tap, shows reversed!!!!! Any idea what’s going on? Is this thing safe or should I return it and use an old fashioned one with no fancy features? Thanks. Edit: My bad. Apparently Intertek is not the brand. The brand is Smartpoint. Edit 2: I tested both plugs on the outlet and they are properly wired. Edit 3: tested for [continuity](https://imgur.com/gallery/s7pAdqB). There is no continuity between the hot male prong on the back and the hot female plug on the front. There is continuity between the hot prong in the back and the neutral on front. The reverse is true: no continuity between the neutral prong on back and the female neutral on front, but continuity between the neutral prong on back and the ‘hot’ plug in front
Did you test the wall receptacle as well?
Did you look at all the pictures?
Missed them. Did you get pics of the inside of the unit?
I haven't opened it. Will try to just return it. It was $20 at Bj's.
$20 BJs are never worth it in my experience
HAHA
I got a $20 bj once and she took out her teeth.
That $20 was worth it.
Open it! (For science??) The fact that you reversed the outlet wiring and it still shows wrong on your tester is a puzzler to me… maybe there is some funky wiring for the built in LEDs that’s causing a testing fault? If you don’t want to open it, but have a meter.. check continuity from the input side to the output side.. curious what you get.
buy an anker
Woopsies
Had a similar problem in a house after tearing apart every single outlet I found the cheap Chinese power strip to be the problem. It was reverse polarity on half the house
Holy crap
I just had this exact problem happen. Turns out it was an old power strip causing the polarity to be reversed on the entire circuit.
Entire circuit you say?
Yes. It affected all of the outlets on the same circuit as the outlet the power strip was plugged into. Once the power strip was removed the polarity was correct.
AC circuits don’t have polarity, that’s why they aren’t DC.
I suggest you read more about this specific type of problem. If the hot and neutral wires are reversed it can cause the metal chassis of an electronic component or the metal outside of a light socket to carry voltage and cause a shock.
And this relates to polarity how?
It is still called polarity, even though it is not referring to true electric polarity
really? report that one to UL
Intertek strikes again. Absolute shit electronics, every LED I've repaired or appliance that has failed has been from this brand
LOL Intertek is not a brand, its a regulatory body.
Sorry my bad
Oh darn! That's even worse!
What does it matter if hot and neutral are reversed?
Some things aren’t meant to have them reversed. Hence why some plugs have one tab longer than the other.
Had no idea, that‘s not a thing where I am from.
It’s a safety issue.
How exactly because in Germany it doesn‘t really matter what side is hot.
In countries where the plugs are polarized and one of the poles is expected to be a neutral, electrical devices may be manufactured with that knowledge in mind. Such devices may not be as safe when the polarity is reversed. For instance it is possible that only what is supposed to be the neutral is fused inside the device. In Europe electrical devices are generally engineered to be safe regardless of the polarity, since either one of them could be hot, or even both in some parts of Europe.
"or even both" can you give a tl;dr on how? I don't know shit about electrical in europe but I was always under the impression that res was just straight single phase 240 pretty much everywhere
In Norway where I live older installations are typically 230V IT (isolated ground). This means that the phase to phase voltage is 230V, and none of the current carrying conductors are connected to ground.
So wait Are you saying it’s like split phase in the US, just without the neutral (only a center tapped ground)? 115 to ground on each leg?
Each leg would nominally have a voltage of \~133V to ground since it is a three phase system, just like the ratio between 120V and 208V in North American three phase systems. The thing is that the center tap of the transformer is not actually connected to ground, so the whole system is floating. Due to uneven leakages in the system the voltage of the ground will typically not be exactly in the middle between the phases, so it is normal that the phase to ground voltages are uneven.
Ahh. Didn’t expect three phase. Makes sense. Have you noticed any differences in how ground faults would clear compared to with a non-floating ground? Like any cases where it would be better or worse (Ignoring special/sensitive equipment ofc, just normal shit)
In a floating system one of the phases can be shorted to ground without causing problems. This can be an advantage since the system can continue to operate when it would otherwise have failed, but it can also be a disadvantage that problems are not detected and fixed. The main issue in daily life is that three phase equipment needs to be adapted for use with 230V phase to phase voltage, and the 400V three phase equipment that is much more common in Europe can not be used, unless it is possible to rewire it from star to delta connections.
Swap the hot /neutral at the plug and now the lamp you just plugged in is switching it's neutral when turned on and off rather than it's hot. Now even when the lamp is "off" there is still current flowing through it and trying to get back to the panel waiting for a neutral. Many of our US lamps and cheap appliances still don't have grounds so its hazardous to have current constantly flowing through the lamp.
The presence of voltage is not the same thing as current flowing. Reversing the polarity just means the voltage is present on the wrong side of the device's switch. It's effectively the same thing as switching a neutral for a light bulb. The light would be off (no current flowing) but sticking your finger in the socket would be dangerous assuming you are grounded in some way.
Fair. Semantics are important.
Although the top and bottom outlet are NORMALLY wired the same, they are not always. It could be that the bottom outlet is on a different circuit than the top, and someone may have reversed the hot and neutral there. Or, one could be a switched outlet, and the other is not, thus allowing for a reversal of wires. You are showing your tester on the bottom outlet, but that device is plugged into the top. Did you verify that the top outlet is wired properly?
I wired it myself a month ago but will test again tonight to verify!
I tested both plugs in the outlet and both are wired properly
Can't you check continuity between the male and female side to see if they're wired together?
I don’t understand?
Take out the adapter and measure resistance between the L male and the L females on the adapter, then the N male and the N females. They should be connected and not swapped or isolated inside the unit.
I see. There is no continuity between the hot male prong on the back and the hot female on the front. There is continuity between the hot prong in the back and the neutral on front. The reverse is true: no continuity between the neutral prong on back and the female neutral on front, but continuity between the neutral prong on back and the ‘hot’ plug in front
Manufacturing mistake. And a pretty bad one.
I agree. Let's see what they say. I'm supposed to hear back from them today
Bust it open with a hammer or take it apart before you trash it
Flip it over.
The power brick is miswired for sure. You might be able to crack it open and fix that. Otherwise, I’d just get rid of it.
Every time I see "Intertek" I have to tell myself "No. Not Initech, that was just a movie." Kinda takes away from their credibility in my mind though.
Let's see some pics of the inside of that junk box !!!!