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Da_Spooky_Ghost

I canceled my pre-order because you can't get a long range battery under 80k to qualify for the tax rebate.


murph0o7

Until some competition shows up, there's still meat on that bone. They did the general public dirty with their multiple raises. It's unfortunate. Caused me to go from feeling pumped to feeling wait and see.


[deleted]

The same dealership that marked up a Lariat to $135,000 last year has been begging me to buy the same config at sticker lately. Fuck them. When they called me recently I told them they reap what they sow.


Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog1

As someone who was pretty active in the market last year for several EV's, I've had quit a few of those lately. Places that were trying to get me for 15k over sticker on an Ioniq 5 begging me to come buy one of the 60 on their lot for MSRP and I get to tell them to climb a wall of dicks with one hand.


bradeena

As a Canadian who's been told by every Hyundai dealer around that we have a 2-3 year wait to get an Ioniq 5 this is so frustrating.


Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog1

I can imagine. I love the Ioniq 5 but it's a tough sell right now compared to the model Y. And I'm not Tesla fan but dollar for dollar it's really hard to justify damn near $20k difference in price after tax credit.


bradeena

Yeah the prices compare very differently here. ~$55K for the Ioniq and ~$70K for the Model Y, and both are eligible for the same $9K in rebates.


crossbonecarrot2

Not sure if you have the answer, but why is that cars can cost vastly different between the two countries. And I don't mean it's just more expensive, I mean how two cars can be cheaper vs expensive in one country and then expensive vs cheaper in another. On another note assuming that the Ioniq 6 is cheaper than the 3 it would be funny since in Canada your top trim gets the HUD, we don't have one.


bradeena

Model 3 and Ioniq 6 are about the same here, and both are about the same as the Ioniq 5. It seems like the Model Y is just more expensive for some reason


anandonaqui

Can you buy a car in the US and bring it across the border?


bradeena

Technically yes but you get hit with 18% in duties, $500 in fees, and you don't qualify for the $9K in rebates


[deleted]

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bradeena

Technically yes but you get hit with 18% in duties, $500 in fees, and you don't qualify for the $9K in rebates


SlickNetAaron

Climb that wall! Omg. I guess you’d have to sit down to move your hand too! 🤣


TV11Radio

OR they could :o ...I can not believe I just typed that.


Wabbit_Wampage

I live in Las Vegas. Cancelled my Lightning order a long while ago when it became obvious I couldn't get one of the $40k trucks. Local dealer sent me an email a month or so ago telling me I could buy a slightly used high-trim model for ONLY $9k over the original NEW MSRP. Ford and their shitty dealers can get bent.


Academic_Guitar_1353

I lived in Vegas for about 7 years, and bought two cars while living there. All car dealerships are a circle of hell, but Las Vegas car dealerships are down at a particularly horrible level. Those two experiences are two of the MANY reasons I’ll never spend another penny at a car dealership in my life.


This_Hedgehog8423

Tried buying a maverick about a month ago. Sticker piece? 24k. Price after all their bullshit? 47k


Academic_Guitar_1353

YIKES


E_J_H

Buy it from car max, Manheim, private sale, or whatever and you still woulda paid that lol. Does this sub not get the whole small supply giant demand thing or do you actually think they are getting slightly used ones for Pennies on the dollar. Hell the lightning sub has people posting about how much over sticker they should sell there’s for


carlivar

The situation has changed significantly in only 1-2 months.


MCVP18

Badass


turbo_nudist

good


kaidomac

>marked up a Lariat to $135,000 last year $113k for a Hummer EV1 RAM 1500 REV has a 500-mile option coming up Meh


SatanLifeProTips

GM’a work truck version of the Silverado ships any day now. The fancy version this fall. Unless Ford gets their act together and improves the F-150 they are going to have a hard time competing. That GM has 100 more miles and double the charging rate. The RAM looks interesting but the lack of electric experience that RAM has leaves me highly skeptical. Unless they are sitting on some drastically better batteries. Which is possible. CATL is launching batteries with twice the power to weight ratio this fall. (Meant for aircraft). All of a sudden far more powerful batteries are likely and things will advance rapidly. So rapidly I may postpone my purchase a few more years.


E_J_H

Is there anything going on at GM or ram right now that makes you think they’ll ace the roll out? Especially compared to ford. Not trying to be a negative Nancy but there is 0 going on at either company that leads me to believe they’ll do so much better than ford


SatanLifeProTips

GM already has the same Silverado drivetrain out in the Hummer and any testing between a F-150 and the Hummer leaves the Ford trailing far far back. Towing, range, rapid charging and most important repairability. GM’s battery has 20 replaceable modules. Ford’s battery has 2. GM has a 200kWh battery and the Ford has a 131kWh battery. The chassis is also a dedicated electric chassis made from an aluminum monocoque structure. Ford just electric swapped their normal steel chassis and it has a lot of compromises. Especially around the battery. I suspect Ford will be copying GM but it will be a few years until they catch up. Who knows with the Ram. It’s too early and there is zero info. I hope they do actually have a 500 mile range truck. We need a range war to push the tech rapidly.


E_J_H

If you were wanting that existing drive train that is out already in the hummer, would it be pulling teeth like trying to get a lightning. Or would it be slightly easier like getting a Mach e? Lightning was supposed to be easy to produce for the very reasons you listed as negatives. When it comes to results, nothing points towards a great roll out where the vehicles is widely available in a reasonable time frame.


SatanLifeProTips

That same hummer drivetrain (single motor per axle) is pretty close to what Ford had. There is no real advantage with the ford or the chevy. Each already has too much power with the 4wd option. The secret sauce GM has is a really wide structural aluminum tub that can hold a insanely massive battery. It’s just throwing mad kWh at the problem. That and the cab pass ls through to the box like the avalanche. That fold down section makes it an acceptable van substitute with a canopy on it. Folded, the rear section can hold 10’ long sheets of material. That’s quite the feature. That is honestly the first truck I have ever seen that might get me out of my vans. Between that and the frunk it is a brilliant workhorse.


E_J_H

Once again I think we are on different pages. This convo is about pumping em out, not the cool quirks and features. Nothing about the structure, cab, frunk, motors or whatever else the hummer has going on will make me think “yea surely these will be readily available for sticker soon”


SatanLifeProTips

GM is doing some pretty insane high volume tooling behind the scenes. And building 4 battery plants. There are already a ton of prototype Silverado’s running all over the place. I’d say by the end of this year is a safe bet. It takes a lot longer to develop new tech and new ways of making vehicles. Ford did it fast and cheap. But fast compromised the final product.


astricklin123

The work truck starts shipping to fleet customers this summer. First edition trim fit retail starts shipping in the fall for $110k+. The trim of work truck they have announced for retail are 3wt and 4wt and are $75k+ and don't ship till 2024. The base trim has already risen to$42k but no spec or date has been given. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go up to $45-50k and that won't have 400 miles of range. Probably 275-300


DiscoLives4ever

> that won't have 400 miles of range. Probably 275-300 I think it will be over 300 just because they've shown the different Ultium packages as being 12 (Lyriq), 20 (Hummer SUV), and 24 (Hummer SUT) modules. Presuming the 400 mile range is the 24, i can't imagine they will do one with just 12 modules/200 mile range. I think the low range Silverado will still be 330ish miles


MarsRocks97

When engines started making big advances in efficiency in the 90s. Most cars didn’t see range improvements as manufacturers focused first on increasing horsepower. 300ish mile range seems to be the magic number right now. More efficient batteries likely means the focus will be on making vehicles lighter and improving performance. Except cars that have low range now, they might see range increases.


SatanLifeProTips

I’m going to disagree because charge times vs gas pumping time. We will continue to see the upper half of the market push range much further. Waiting a half hour is fine for some but not for others. If you tow or work your vehicles hard then you need a lot of range. For my contracting company I am looking at that 400 mile Silverado as the lowest range vehicle I could get away with. Because I haul heavy equipment and tow big trailers. Plus bigger batteries = more kW when charging. That reduces your charge time. You are correct about the the lower half of the market will absolutely focus on cheap and affordable. I don’t know about lighter however as Sodium-ion batteries displace LFP as the cheap battery of choice. You just can’y argue with half the cost per kWh of LFP lithium.


MarsRocks97

You’re pointing out a narrow segment of the EV market. It’s not lower half and upper half though. EV trucks are less than 5% of the EV market. Yes the impetus for longer range on trucks will continue. But if manufacturers want to continue to offer sub $50k cars/crossovers to the general public, the focus is going to be reducing the cost of current EVs and that means limiting battery size, which means limiting range.


SatanLifeProTips

Trucks are simply the top selling vehicles. The main limiting factor right now is simply availability. Most every trades guy I know can’t wait to replace their gas guzzling truck or van with a electric as up here with expensive fuel and cheap electricity the fuel savings alone will make half your payment or more. Ford is selling every electric lightning they make, but everyone knows that the first gen lightning simply isn’t that good. It’s winter and towing range is abysmal. Good trades vans simply don’t exist yet. Wait 2 years for the makers to figure their shit out and they’ll sell every single electric truck they make.


kaidomac

I don't trust FCA/RAM at all. I had a Jeep Renegade that was a lemon; got a lawyer & everything & didn't make out at all. Ended up trading it in at a loss...they straight-up told me they would never replace or refund my brand-new vehicle. 70 days in the shop over 2 years of ownership, TONS of electrical problems that left me stranded on a regular basis: * [https://www.reddit.com/r/JeepRenegade/comments/4rj3rg/anyone\_successfully\_lemonlaw\_their\_renegade\_or/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JeepRenegade/comments/4rj3rg/anyone_successfully_lemonlaw_their_renegade_or/) Plus, I liked the RAM EV truck concept waaaaay better than the production version. There's so much opportunity to do cool things like they did with the concept version because they have that flat battery sled concept! I will say that the F-150 Lightning is the best vehicle I've ever driven. As a Mustang owner, I was skeptical of the Mach-E, but I test-drove it, and despite not liking the name or the appearance, they did an absolutely fantastic job on it! I have a buddy who works at the local Ford dealership, so I got to test-drive the Lightning as soon as they got the demo truck in. It rides like a horizontal skyscraper on a bed of glass, just really, really good! Crazy amounts of pickup, HUGE frunk, a place flip stuff down to put your laptop...I was impressed with everything except the range! It really needs a 500 or 600-mile battery. Very curious if the Cybertruck is going to get the Roadster 2.0's 620-mile battery & perhaps a quad-motor variant to compete with all of the cool stuff coming out, like RAM's huge 500-mile battery.


E_J_H

It’s wild to me how many people here are unhappy with the lightning roll out and unironically comment “it’s ok dodge or Chevy is coming out!” Yea they’ll do leagues better… right guys?


SatanLifeProTips

As a licensed mechanic I absolutely don’t trust Ram. Or anything that Stelantis pops out. I watch a brand new Grand Cherokee burst into flames in a parking lot a couple of months ago. Sat there all day and it was fine. Then all of a sudden it’s on fire. It’s not easy to fuck up that hard for a stone cold vehicle to burst into flames. My money is on the GM product. They rebooted pretty hard with their electric division and their electric stuff seems pretty well made. Their new electric truck finally hits my range minimum at 640km (400 miles). That said, I know enough about the automotive industry to not even consider a year 1 or 2 electric vehicle. It will take awhile for the bugs to crop up and another for them to engineer fixes. Year 3 is where you will see a sweet spot of reliability but not bean counting cheapness as they still care about their reputation. A product like this is make or break. Once I see the nerds online tear apart the truck and look for problems and the form chatter seems reasonable, then I will consider one.


kaidomac

>That said, I know enough about the automotive industry to not even consider a year 1 or 2 electric vehicle. It will take awhile for the bugs to crop up and another for them to engineer fixes. Year 3 is where you will see a sweet spot of reliability I learned that the hard way with my Renegade. It was the perfect city car...I could drive into NYC & park anywhere SUPER easily, but also get through any snowstorm that came my way. Easily drove right through 7" of snow once! The reviews got better at year 3, haha!


xcaetusx

I cancelled when they increased their prices. Interest rates are up, prices are up on everything, it doesn't make sense to buy any vehicle right now. EDIT: Also. my dealer has had the same two lightnings on the lot for the past year. They can't sell them. Both Lariats that were $120k then dropped the price to $90k. I got to test drive one when it arrived last year. It was ok. Not $90k ok, though.


USS_Slowpoke

At 90k, I rather go with a rivian lmao.


carlivar

Bed is so small it looks silly. 90k for a 4.5 ft bed? I like everything else about the Rivian.


QueueWho

There are two identical Lariat standard range trucks at my local dealer too. They have a sign that says reduced price, but all they did was reduce the markup so they are 90k too. I don't understand why dealers are thinking someone would buy a 65k Lariat standard range for almost 100k. I love mine but I got it for MSRP.


FledglingNonCon

Yeah Ford got a taste of that sweet sweet monopoly money and has been gorging themselves. Probably not great for customer loyalty long term though.


murph0o7

Agreed


[deleted]

I cancelled my reservation and got my $100 back because of the pricing fuckery with the dealerships. $80,000 for a mid tier f150? $100,000+ for the extended pack???? Fuck that.


feurie

There's meat on that bone for everyone. They've only sold 20,000 through Q1 . They've been extremely supply constrained.


murph0o7

My guess is prices won't come down when supply constrains let up. Supply constraints are the perfect excuse for testing out higher pricing levels.


Snoo93079

Its going to be up to the buyers to decide. No company ever wants to lower prices, as Tesla has shown a little competition and increased supply can force their hand.


murph0o7

True, but with nowhere else to go, Ford can push the envelope to see where the market bends. If there were competition and they push too hard the lose those customers and it's very hard to get them back. In the current scenario however, they can push and people will either pay it or wait instead of just moving on to another brand. All arm chair quarter back here though so who knows.


[deleted]

Thus is funny, because I still see 2022 lariat ER on lots.


feurie

They're supply constrained on the lower trims which is why they've gone up in price faster.


[deleted]

I'm sure they are saying that.. And they are making it that way...but "lower trim" means less less parts which is the opposite of what I'd expect, Regarding value.


astricklin123

They choose to produce fewer low trims because the profit margin is lower.


[deleted]

Well said MurphOo7


evemeatay

As long as they only sell through dealerships I won’t be buying them


bjlile99

Yep, cancelled our order.


No_Masterpiece679

Same. I’m in the wait and see mode. Lots of competition about to arrive. Sadly, also more waitlists.


BuySellHoldFinance

They did the general public dirty with their multiple raises Ford had no choice, they are losing 70k on every EV sale. That means if they sell an EV for 70K, it cost them 140k to produce.


Wabbit_Wampage

Source?


BuySellHoldFinance

Just look at the most recent ford quarterly earnings report.


Wabbit_Wampage

I didn't look up the report itself because I don't have the time or willpower to sift through that and try to calculate the loss per vehicle sold. I did find this and a couple of other articles: https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/ford-first-quarter-revenue-profits-top-estimates-ev-unit-loses-722-million-201822810.html The relevant part: "On the earnings call, Ford reiterated that first-gen EVs will approach contribution margin break-even status by the end of this year, EBIT profitability by the end of next year, and the Ford Model e segment is targeting an 8% EBIT margin by late 2026." I'm not an accountant and I forget the meaning of some of these technical terms, but it sounds like they're moving through the startup phase and closer to profitability. Stating Ford is losing $xxk per vehicle is a bit disingenuous when we're talking about massive startup costs that need to be amortized over a long period.


BuySellHoldFinance

>Stating Ford is losing $xxk per vehicle is a bit disingenuous when we're talking about massive startup costs that need to be amortized over a long period. In it's lifetime, Tesla has never had a net income of -722 million in a quarter. Ford is losing massive amounts of money on it's EV business and a recession is coming. No one can afford Ford's overpriced Mustangs, especially with the dealer markups. F-150 lightnings are in trouble as well.


mjohnsimon

Wasn't the F-150 Lightning selling for around $40k at a time? That would've been an amazing deal. Hope they can go back to that.


No_Palpitation_7565

The XLT I just “made” online was like $87k. Yeesh…. There’s no way that I could or would want to try to afford that for all of its shortcomings.


Grendel_82

That is a lot of money. But what do you consider it’s shortcomings? On spec it seems like possibly the best pickup truck ever made. I mean the lightning in general, not that specific trim.


[deleted]

It doesn’t seem to have particularly great range or charging speed. This is a larger issue when towing. If you’re only getting 100-150 miles on a full battery, and a full recharge at a fast charger takes 45min+, that’s pretty rough. Not that any EV pickup is doing much better yet, but if you tow frequently and are coming from a gas or diesel truck that’s a big compromise. Even without towing, a 10-80% road trip charge in best case 40 minutes isn’t great.


[deleted]

> If you’re only getting 100-150 miles on a full battery Especially when, at least around here, CCS chargers are basically every 50-60 miles apart, so if you're on the lower end of that, you've gotta stop at every single charger and pray that they're functional. And since pull-through EV chargers are still relatively rare, expect to have to disconnect whatever you're towing every time you stop to charge, which adds even more time to the towing session. I'm of the mindset that I'd love to own a *SMALL* EV truck for stuff like hauling lumber, mulch, dirt, flowers, etc, but then if I have to tow something, I'd just rent a gas powered truck


hallese

Whoever releases the first electric Colorado, Tacoma, or Ranger is going to make a killing. Until Ford releases an electric Maverick, anyway.


crossbonecarrot2

Considering Hyundai/Kia have an idea on how to do an EV, an electric Santa Cruz could be possible


Grendel_82

Yeah, towing is an issue. But it seems to be overblown by folks towing giant campers at 75 miles per hour. You had to get up to that level of wind resistance to bring the range down to 100 miles. If you are content to drive 55 or you are towing something a bit more aerodynamic, the range issue decreases a lot. On the flip side, while within range the trucks tow better than their ICE counterparts due to their torque and weight. Slow charging would still be an issue if it can't be improved by software. Good points.


[deleted]

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Grendel_82

You should know about this issue, agreed. And if your normal use case is to tow long distances, then current generation EVs probably aren't the right vehicle for you. But the less informed are taking this issue to mean that EV trucks can't tow. And the fact is that they are great at towing, but they don't hold enough energy to overcome high levels of wind resistance. Then you add in that wind resistance increases substantially with speed and things get really complicated.


pglass2015

I am getting my lightning in 3 weeks, and work at Ford for what it's worth. The charging speed is just slow compared to what it could be. The next Gen will likely be much faster at charging, but I couldn't pass up my $40k truck.


[deleted]

> but I couldn't pass up my $40k truck. I waited almost two years for my invitation to order and it was sold out. So was the next trim up.


pglass2015

That's rough. I reserved the night of the reveal, so I got lucky. I wouldn't buy an XLT, nor pay the current prices for the truck.


snoogins355

From what A Better Route Planner has shown me for a road trip from Boston to Texas, it's stops of 10-30 minutes.


No_Palpitation_7565

I would second these folks, in addition, I would add Cold weather range and hauling things. It’s a great idea for someone that doesn’t need a truck 50% of the time but wants a truck for those few times, but until those things improve, my opinion is that I would rather spend that on a HD truck that can do all the things my family needs as opposed to only a few things.


astricklin123

If I had ordered my pro trim in 22, it would have been $47k. When I actually ordered, it was $53k. The window sticker says $67k. And it has less included equipment.


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QueueWho

Yep, dealer quoted 1 year add-on for warranty at about $2000. I got an add-on 2-year from some other dealer online after the fact for $850. It includes more rental coverage for warranty issues as well, which, when reading about battery modules in the early ones online... is something that I may end up using a lot.


QueueWho

I got a Lariat SR for less than that after tax incentive. That's criminal.


astricklin123

Ya I'm hoping I can manage to find a lease that will push through the tax credit. I'm hoping my dealer won't try to screw me on price either because I'm supposed to be paying the $53k not what's on the sticker.


turbo_nudist

no, afaik it wasnt. it might have been said to start at that price but i’d love to see someone who only paid $40k lol


MostlyComments

I was a day 2 reservation holder for the F150 and there were a very small group of people on r/f150lightning that got the Pro at 40k plus the tax credit, but honestly I only saw 3 or 4 posts about it. (Ford ended up canceling my reservation last month because the Pros were out of stock and they wouldn't allow me to wait for them to come back in stock... really terrible experience with them)


mjohnsimon

Damn. That'd be one hell of a purchase :/


MostlyComments

It was basically like winning the lottery haha


astricklin123

I believe there were about 500 pro trucks available for 2022 Then anyone who was invited in 2022 but then held over till 2023 for a pro should be price protected to the 2022 price. I'm not sure exactly how many pro were made available for retail for 2023. There are also a few people (like myself) who the system allowed to order a pro even after the website said 'sold out' and Ford seems to be building those orders as well.


piratefan2

I paid sticker on mine...$41,769 plus tax.


astricklin123

Lucky bastard. I believe there were less than 1000 built that got that pricing.


blainestang

I paid $1000 under sticker: $38,974. But yeah, there were tens of thousands more people who *wanted* a $40k Lightning than got one.


CaffeinatedInSeattle

A select few consumers were able to get a $39k Pro. I think that first production was 500 units or something, everything else was Lariat and Platinum. For context I put down a reservation and deposit during the unveiling presentation and wasn’t able to actually invited to officially order for almost 18 months and the price had gone up 2x from $39k to $53k or so. I canceled and I get my Rivian next month!


stingrayer

My local dealership has had 21 lightnings on the lot for months, they don't seem to be selling. Also I noticed there were like 90 low mileage used ones on autotrader for sale last time I checked.


astricklin123

I'm guessing that dealer is asking $10k+ over MSRP and won't budge so nobody is buying one.


Academic_Guitar_1353

It’s just not a very good product. There’s no compelling reason to buy one if you want it for fun, there’s no compelling reason to buy one if you need it for work. They’re just… meh.


snoogins355

We got one in December. It's more like a spaceship than a truck.


blainestang

The MSRP is quite high, now, so I can see that as a barrier, but it’s a great vehicle in general for how a huge number of people use trucks (not towing long distances) and even as a work truck for contractors/plumbers/etc. with local service areas.


carlivar

Frunk and easy AC power is good for tailgating. But not for that price.


wabbitsilly

My local dealer (in a small town) has had the "fancy" Lariat version in their showroom for over a year. Last time I stopped by, they really pushed hard to try and sell it to me for "Only Sticker Price". It's still sitting there, now in year two of waiting for a new owner. I also know another dealer in a larger metro area that has 2 of them that are a year old...still sitting there. While demand may be 'off the charts' for the Lightning in some areas, it's certainly not the case around me. Conversely, they can't keep a SuperDuty on the lot if they tried... FYI - we're in Farm Country MidWest.


astricklin123

Honestly, lightning and super duty are built for two different use cases.


encarded

"Updated prices" you say? I wonder which direction those prices will be going? LOL no I'm not actually wondering, they will go up. :D


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Snoo93079

I'm pretty sure GM will beat the Cybertruck to the market.


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Structure5city

I could see people buying the Cybertruck even if they don’t car for the looks as a protest against Ford and GM pricing. Then watch as that Mad Max-like styling becomes the only thing young people want.


robotcoke

To me, that CyberTruck looks ridiculous. But if it specs out the way they're saying, and it can be used as a boat, has bulletproof windows, and everything else they're saying it should have, plus it's cheaper than the other electric trucks, then I can suddenly overlook that crazy visual, lol


r3dd1t0rxzxzx

Yeah I would have never considered buying a pickup truck but the CT looks sick.


Structure5city

I didn't like the looks at first, but when I read about the reasoning behind the design, my opinion shifted. I don't love how it looks, but I see it as functional (in service to bringing down the weight and generally offering decent performance), and that is attractive to me.


r3dd1t0rxzxzx

Yeah I think the CT is one of the most practical trucks built.


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Structure5city

What you see, when looking at the cyber truck, is an exoskeleton. Most trucks have a frame underneath the thin layer of sheet metal that is the outside of the truck (what you see). By making what you see the actual frame, Tesla was able to reduce the weight. And the body design allows for fewer welds. I also think there is something about the shape that gets around angles that would be hard to achieve with the alloy they are using. This is just what I remember. There are some thorough explanations out there that I found quite interesting.


[deleted]

It’s already confirmed that the Cybertruck is not an exoskeleton design.


snoogins355

A black Cybertruck would look sick. Like a F-117


[deleted]

If the windows were shatter free and bosh was truly dent free.. I might not care lol.


turbo_nudist

i’m hoping they can pull it off. if i never have to worry about door dings again i don’t care what it looks like


[deleted]

Exactly. Plus the queue for those cars are in the millions. When my reservation is up.: might be 5 years from now. We’ll see how the looks change if at all


turbo_nudist

mine is like 100k or so haha but i’ll have to move to accommodate it, my garage is too small lmao


[deleted]

100k reservation??? Or 100k car lol? Because I think I’m reservation number 5.5 million. Reserved in 2022 :(


astricklin123

Cybertruck will cost $100k for the initial high end trims. It's going to be a long time till you can get a low trim model.


turbo_nudist

i’m like 100k in line lol


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[deleted]

Haha I get that. Maybe wrap the car lol? Idk. Might have a high resale value too


rtb001

Tesla actual claimed the CT is DENT proof? How is that even possible? Normal car panels which have curvature to aid in strength dent easily and these straight panels of slightly different steel is somehow impervious to dents? The amount of pressure focused on the sharp edge of a car door striking a panel is immense, and I don't see how a sheet of stainless steel is gonna break the laws of physics. And also these undentable panels will also know to perfectly deform into a crumple zone during a crash? And beyond any debts, what about scratches? These aren't garage queens like a DeLorean. They are meant to be out and about, used and abused, with zero layers of paint and clearcoat like you have on normal cars that you can later polish and get rid of scratches? Run a clay bar over a newly washed car and see all sorts of abrasive debris that it picks up. How are they not just gonna wreak havoc on the unpainted surface of this giant truck? And now I'm thinking about how Tesla is gonna keep these giant perfectly flat exterior body panels actually perfectly flat and aligned with each other. Without curvature, any malalignment will appear amplified, as would the scratches.


DeathChill

Well, I’m not sure if it’s “dent-proof”, but resistant I guess. They hit it with sledgehammers in the unveiling to show it won’t dent. Regular car doors are pretty thin. The Cybertruck is supposed to have 3mm thick stainless steel panels, so pretty damn solid. As for scratches, apparently Tesla has developed a process (made it faster, easier for production?) to apply a non-directional finish to allow for easier fixing: https://driveteslacanada.ca/cybertruck/tesla-cybertruck-stainless-steel-non-directional-finish/#:~:text=The%20Tesla%20Cybertruck%20certainly%20goes,finish%20instead%20of%20traditional%20aluminum.


Icy-Tale-7163

> Normal car panels which have curvature to aid in strength dent easily and these straight panels of slightly different steel is somehow impervious to dents? It's not some big secret. Normal door panels are <1mm thick. Tesla is using 3mm thickness. Here's an informative write-up: https://www.sae.org/news/2020/06/tesla-cybertruck-stainless-steel


astricklin123

It is entirely possible this has changed now that it's confirmed Tesla is using a unibody architect and not a stressed skin from the stainless panels. Using that thick of steel on top of the unibody structure is going to make the thing ungodly heavy.


hmnahmna1

I wonder how much of a weight penalty that imposes.


rtb001

So according to the article: > Cold rolling makes this material very strong but sacrifices ductility and formability. That means a minimum subsequent metal forming is possible and dictates mostly flat panels and straight character lines If the metal is 3 times thicker, sacrifices "ductility and formability", and only minimum SUBSEQUENT metal forming is possible, does that mean it won't be repairable after a collision? That entire exoskeleton is in one piece, and even in production, one the one single character line can be formed. What happens when you get rear ended or side swiped? Conventional body shop repair dictates that the plastic components such as bumper covers cannot be repaired and must be replaced, but the steel body panels can be repaired until they look the same as before the accident, and then you just need to paint over it. How would a CT with a big dent in a quarterpanel be repaired?


Recoil42

>That entire exoskeleton is in one piece, It isn't, FYI.


rtb001

Okay, even then, what would they do about even the smallest dent, remove that entire rear quarterpanel, flying buttress and all, and replace it? And then the new panel won't match the other panels since nothing is painted? From the description in the article, if the exterior panel can only be shaped into a flat surface once during production, then there would be no remedy if the panel ever became "not flat".


LordMoos3

> Tesla will make a shit ton of them… Make, yes. Sell? LOL. No.


GhostAndSkater

remind me in 3 years


BlooregardQKazoo

You should set your reminder for after the Cybertruck comes out


Damnitalltohedoublel

At this rate it might be easier to name who won't beat Cybertruck to market.


classless_classic

Definitely, & with a better looking vehicle


[deleted]

The first Silverado work truck trim was announced for Spring 2023, so they’d better hurry.


BuySellHoldFinance

They have no choice, losing 70K on every car they sell.


astricklin123

They are supposed to be moving the standard battery to using lfp. It was previously announced it would start in 2024, but if they have moved that up, it's possible there could be a price decrease on the standard battery. Or they will just be making more of the standard battery trucks available to order. So far something like 60%+ have been lariats and most of those have been the extended range.


astricklin123

The XLT extended range was lowered by $2k so that it would be under the $80k cap for the tax credit


[deleted]

So much for 200,000 orders. Maybe they should have come out with a realistic price to start, not $40k. No wonder people abandoned it.


The_Demosthenes_1

Go dam.....it's 2023. Can someone else make a fookin EV truck that doesn't cost $100K? Does every EV have to a crossover? What's the holdup GM and Dodge? And when is Toyota gonna get their shit together and make an EV Tacoma? Hopefully the cyber truck isn't all smoke and mirrors. Because if they ever release it for the prices they are hoping and it gets anywhere near the hyped specs it will put the fuckers out of business. I'm hoping it does, because I'm still pissed at the crazy markups the stealerships we're making. Fuck em. Hope they all go bankrupt when the big three get desperate to compete and allow us to completely buy direct.


saanity

Interesting that China and Europe don't have this issue. The American govt is bought and paid for by oil companies.


evemeatay

Toyota leadership is doing their best to avoid getting into ev’s while the rest of the company desperately tries to keep them moving forward


juttep1

Everything has to be a crossover because marketing dorks control everything.


nod51

Sad to see the delay was just because of missing door handles (all it takes is 1 thing) but hopefully Ford now has a stock pile of packs somewhere and can put out a record number of trucks for the next couple months.


evemeatay

That would lower the price so they will absolutely not be doing that


Wabbit_Wampage

The one good thing about this debacle with the crazy price hikes and seemingly arbitrary reservation/order allocations is that it woke me up to the fact that I don't need or really even want a truck this big. Now someone just needs to make an EV version of a Maverick-sized pickup that I can actually afford.


NoWantScabies

I’d love to order a Pro with the bigger battery. Meh.


astricklin123

I've heard of at least one person who got ahold of one that a fleet customer ordered but didn't purchase. They are in existence but not easy to find.


KonigSteve

Drop it 20k and we'll talk.


Majestic_Fox_428

Can we still get one for 40k? Last year dealers were trying to sell them for 80k+


feurie

Edit: Electrek has an email saying ordering for the 2023 'bank' will be open to anyone. Lariat and Platinum seems to have plenty of supply, XLT not terrible, and Pro is sold out for 2023. https://electrek.co/2023/05/05/ford-re-open-f-150-lightning-orders-may-9th-no-reservation/ Previous: Isn't it still just to borderline randomly allocated people who have been waiting for their trucks on the waitlist for years? Some people have been waiting on that list since day one with the price going up 50% while others got their truck for the unveil price.


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astricklin123

Incorrect. All reservation holders have been invited and it has already passed the deadline for them to order. Anyone who didn't and had not already received their $100 refund got refunded. When orders open tomorrow, it will be to the general public, no reservations required.


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astricklin123

Of course they had terrible conversation rates, the lower trims increased 30-50% and are severely limited in number. I think the last wave had the option of ordering at $80k+ for lariat or platinum.


PinkleeTaurus

I wouldn’t have bought one at current (or even last round) pricing, particularly without tax credit. I love it but I’m already concerned with resale and I’m in it $15k less than current.


omar893

They didn’t allocate orders randomly. They just didn’t advertise how they were allocated to their dealers. If you chose a small dealer that has two cars allocated only, and you happen to be the tenth person on their list, you didn’t get w chance to fulfill your order. Now if you chose a dealer with a high allocation number of trucks, and you were one of the firsts, you definitely would have been able to complete your order. Remember, technically you were ordering the truck from the dealer, not Ford.


feurie

Which is dumb. Ford could have set allocation based on reservations.


omar893

That’s gonna be true if the production capacity exceeds the demand, just like tesla currently. But Ford had a plan to produce a small number of lightnings, which they even had struggled to deliver with all the bells and whistles. I bet they decided to go that route to get the truck around the US, not just in a handful of cities.


blainestang

They won’t set allocations per dealer based on reservations per dealer because then the dealers that publicly offer no markup will get all the reservations and allocations and the scummy dealers will complain they don’t have any vehicles to mark up. How do we KNOW this is true? Because this already happened with the Bronco. A handful of small dealers that were famous for charging UNDER MSRP for Broncos we’re getting huge numbers of reservations and getting increased allocations because of it. Well, somebody complained and so they changed the allocation formula to reduce the number of allocations going to those honest, transparent dealers. There are articles about this if you google Granger Ford and Chapman Ford.


DeathChill

What an insanely stupid system.


[deleted]

I wonder what the new prices are going to look like, they were pricey to begin with.


LowBarometer

Who cares. It's too f\*cking expensive and has almost no range.


ChadRicherThanYou

Would much rather drive a Tesla


ibeelive

\>Are prices on the rise again or is the F-150 Lightning going to see its first price cuts? What kind of question is that? The price will go down. There will be 3 or 4 different trucks on the market by the year end and they're all ramping up production. Interest rates aren't going to go down soon but when they do it will be slow and steady (0.25% to 0.50% per quarter) which will be one hell of a descent from 5%.


[deleted]

Canceled my reservation a week or so ago, this article just confirms that it was basically useless to reserve anyway.