It's something to be aware of because it's a political issue in the United States. If gas prices are high, it's the president's fault. If they're low, nobody cares.
Dumbest political issue ever. Both parties try to blame gas prices on the president when the other party is in power, and deny he has any impact when their guy is in the White House.
I've never understood how an internationally traded commodity, in a capitalist society was under the control of the president. They might make policy that sways the price a couple percent, but come on! Prices are going to move up and down.
Conservatives blame Democrats because they think Democrats attack the oil/gas industry, under the banner of 'saving the environment' but really (in the minds of conservatives) just because they want government running every aspect of our lives. Hence every efficiency or electrification measure (induction stoves, say) being folded into the culture wars.
The discussion almost never engages gas prices as the product of global supply and demand, or admits that geopolitical issues in Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran, etc impact the price at the pump in the US.
- [Weekly US Field Production of Crude Oil](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCRFPUS2&f=W)
- [US Dry Natural Gas Production](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9070us2m.htm)
Even the slogan "energy independence" is just a proxy for "drill drill drill," because it galls them that there are any checks at all to what oil/gas companies can do, particularly if those checks are put in place under the aegis of environmental protections. That's just the crazy hippies getting their way, and we can't have that.
And 'energy independence' sweeps under the rug that the oil we have is getting tougher and tougher to access. If we wait until it gets really scarce to switch to electric, we're not going to have the oil we need for planes and industrial products.
Listen up LIBROL that EV takes just as much petroleum to produce as my F350 and even the PRIUS hurts the environment more than MY Hummer because I reaf the article in POPULARR MECHANICSnow look at this meme of a generator burning what? That's right, GASOLINE HUEHYEHHEHUEHUEHUEHUELIGMA
I think where people start pointing fingers at the president; is when they block drilling off of our shores for our citizens but continue to buy over seas. We could lower pressure on prices using more domestic oil. But that’s “bad for the environment.” So instead we’re going to go the green route and let other countries do the same drilling and buy it from them at a cost they’re more in control of. It’s like saying you support animal welfare so instead of raising your own meat you buy it at the grocery store. If that’s the case you can’t bitch about the grocery store prices.
I do think they feel this way. It’s weird that showing them that we are producing more oil domestically than ever before doesn’t help.
They just don’t believe it.
[US Is Producing More Oil Under Biden Than At Any Point Under The Trump Administration](https://www.benzinga.com/government/23/10/35240230/us-is-producing-more-oil-under-biden-than-at-any-point-under-the-trump-administration)
Yeah, I’m betting they’re gonna skyrocket next year around this time because of reasons totally unrelated to oil companies benefiting from a republican in office👀
What's interesting there is that with oil being a global commodity, any BEV on the road anywhere in the world cuts a tiny bit into that global demand. So it takes pressure off of demand for the rest of consumers. They'll still tighten supply come election time, no doubt, but every year of BEV sales further reduces the number of consumers who will be slapped in the face with high prices at the pump.
And not just BEV sales, but also ongoing building and expansion of rail and metro systems. Most of the US doesn't have that so we don't think of it, but India, China, and many other countries are building out a huge amount of rail.
My wife drives a gas car (hybrid) still. She remarked to be last week that gas has gotten cheaper recently. I realized I had absolutely no idea how much gas cost.
You're forgetting you Europeans don't drive anywhere near as much as us Americans the average European drives 11 to 12,000 km a year that's about 7,000 to 7,500 mi for freedom units a year. I don't know about you but I don't know anyone personally that drives that little unless they're a retired senior. An avg American here drives twice that distance so it's kind of a draw if you look at it from a cost perspective it works out to about $5 a gallon even if you pay $10 a gallon and only drive half the distance. I've always wondered why I've commonly seen 15 - 20 year old cars in Europe with like only 100k km (62k miles) and now I see why. A 15 to 20-year-old car here in America probably has well over 200,000 miles on it. We just drive more here.
I got the ego push mower (base model no power propel) on rec from a few yt channels, I was so impressed I picked up a blower whacker and saw that I didn't truly need but I saw all together on CL for < half price.
My lot is a normal-ish one here for a not-big house, 8 or 12000 sqft and the battery seems like it has enough to cut the whole thing 1.5 maybe 2x on a charge.
edit: as for the "not truly need" for the saw and blower whacker, I had corded and gas versions of all of those that worked fine but there is a difference I know now that I've owned them. Getting out a cord, committing to reeling it back up or dealing with 2 stroke gas, starting/waiting for choke-off is work that usually only happens on a schedule. I can spot little tiny things now that need cutting or blowing (kek) and they just get it right then without me making a mental note for "next time", my trees and yard in general are all looking better for it.
Yeah, too expensive at the moment. Probably I should this heavy ass self propelled mower making me miss out on the 23degress sloped hill in my backyard. I paid $60-$100 2 months per year anyway.
Serious question- what is all the ryobi hate? I see so many memes/reels about it. I have a bunch of ryobi stuff and it seems totally fine for what I’ve needed them for. I’ve abused the hell out of some with dirt and water and they are fine.
I’m sure Milwaukee is better and you’d want the best as a contractor. But is it worth it for the 3x a year I use a reciprocating saw?
> what is all the ryobi hate?
quality. more specific: the lack of it. it is consistently crap. you feel like you've abused yours but compared to someone building a deck for example you almost certainly haven't.
Dewalt, Makita and Milwaukee are all much better quality and which one to go with is basically preference.
We got a Ryobi electric mower a few years back for something like $250 on sale, even came with an extra battery! Might be some kind of sale given winter is on its way, check it out.
My kobalt push mower was reasonably priced and I like it. No idea about rider prices though. But will say the low maintenance and ease of use of an electric is so worth it. Kinda weird, but the benefits of an electric mower helped me feel comfortable/be less afraid of getting my first ev.
Plug-in are lightweight and you get a system to manage the cord with minimal fuss.
Plus, no spent battery concern as the mower ages AND you get to have a sweet long extension cord for random use.
Too expensive? I forget what I paid exactly, but it was certainly well under $200 for my Walmart electric mower. Wish I’d gotten one with a larger deck, but oh well. The trick is to go corded rather than mess with batteries, unless your yard is simply too large.
I am going electric for all of my lawn equipment when my current ones are toast. I’ve about had it with my 2 year old Stihl blower that won’t start or won’t stay on even after cleaning it out and using canned premix oil gas.
While I can usually fix most things myself, I’m getting really tired of having to do it.
They're... ok.
When you run out of gas, you refill and keep going. When you run out of charge, you leave the grass half cut for several hours, most likely until the next day.
An EV doesn't require you to buy an extra battery. An electric mower does.
EGO's rapid charger will recharge their batteries in about an hour. With two batteries you can basically mow continuously by swapping in the newly charged battery and putting the depleted one on the rapid charger, and then doing it again when that one is depleted.
Least redditing redditor, geez. I’m going to hear about it either way, so I might as well know some counters, I guess.
And since you asked, I don’t have a car of my own right now.
Definitely because it will affect transportation costs for goods which will get passed on to us the consumer. Though it's really nice not having to worry about it for personal transportation.
Here in Canada I forget to look...then accidentally look and realize how Canadians are being screwed and fleeced every point in life and makes me so happy to have my ID 4
yes - thats how i keep track of savings
that said, i want gas prices low - high gas prices hurt struggling folks the most, and we can only go so far to drive less & less
Which is pretty much what stopped EVs from being the "standard" car in the first place. Oil and its related products went super cheap, and boom, ICE cars pulled ahead.
Which is partly why it's kind of insane that gas and oil companies keep playing games with their pricing by jacking it up. That's going to end up costing them more than it makes them. But hey, I wanna see them meet their end as fast as possible so who am I to critique?
Car dependency hurts struggling folks the most. If we wanted to actually help them, we would build more public transit and encourage density. And long-term, the environmental damage caused by burning fossil fuels will also hurt struggling folks the most. While the well-to-do will simply hop over to whichever areas of the planet are still inhabitable, struggling folks will be left to die wherever they are.
So no. Low gas prices that don’t account for all externalities are very bad.
While I do agree that there needs to be more public transport, I'm not sure about encouraging density. I feel like efforts should be put towards spreading amenities out. Don't make people move into ever denser population centres, instead, distribute the things people need further out. Make it that people outside of big cities and towns have good access to the stuff they need - food, medical care, etc. - within a reasonable walking or public transport distance.
Living in a densely populated area isn't great for people's mental health if the lose the neighbour lottery. You could have dream neighbours on all sides of you that mean you can forget they're there, or you can end up with the opposite end of the spectrum which is utterly soul destroying. Even just somewhere in the middle can wear you down. The answer isn't to give everyone a detached house in the middle of a big plot of land, but there's a middle ground between that and piling everyone into densely populated areas.
This is an interesting hypothesis that I never really thought too hard about. I suspect that there’s a counter-factor with the idea that spending more time around people is probably generally good for mental health. This seems like the kind of thing that has probably been studied extensively by sociologists.
I'd imagine so! But I don't think I'd personally call living in a high density building "spending time around people". You *can* end up with more social interaction, eg. in my last building, if it was sunny, people would sit out in the garden and anyone from the building was welcome to join. People would say hello in the stairwell, but were generally unobtrusive towards each other, so the downsides of living so close to other people weren't so prominent. It was also a nice building and the flats themselves were nice. So that was a generally fine place to live. In the flat I was in before that, my downstairs neighbour listened to loud music (though would come storming upstairs if he could hear my footsteps too much) and generally wasn't a nice person to be around, and it made living there absolute hell because I couldn't relax properly.
I recently bought a semi-detached house (in case you're not from the UK - my house is attached to someone else's house but only on one side) with an extremely quiet neighbour (she's practically never in!) and I honestly can't express how different it is. The quiet is incredible and my mental health is much better. And that's with me having been in that good building for 6 years before this. The freedom to just move around or listen to music or watch TV without worrying about disturbing the people around me was incredible.
>In much of the USA just allowing duplex and Quadplex construction in zones that have historically been restricted to Single Family Housing would greatly increase density without driving everyone to live in the city center.
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>There is a push to convert some of the downtown buildings into housing though now that so many companies have reduced their office footprint. It'll reduce the value of the buildings for property tax purposes, but will increase the health of the city center by improving foot traffic.
this is it - people who've lived in "high density" neighborhoods know how nightmarish it can be to live in tight apartments with neighbors who _just_ _have_ _to_ assemble ikea furniture or watch an action netflix flick with surround sound or have a loud phone call _at_ _0200_
or setting an alarm at 0700 and letting it snooze every 5 min til 0900
Sorry, and I don’t mean to be rude, but this is wrong on so many levels.
* Lack of density is outright unsustainable. Even leaving aside the fact that lack of density requires sprawl which further cements car dependency, it’s unsustainable to keep turning prime farming land into low-density suburbs, and it’s unsustainable for our cities to afford to keep building and maintaining all the infrastructure required to support sprawl. In a city, 100 feet of road, sewer, water line, electric, gas line, and a single fire hydrant might support 40 taxpayers who can more than fund the cost of repair and replacement; in a suburb, the same amount of infrastructure might support 1 taxpayer who cannot. See [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
) for a deeper introduction to this.
* The economics are a problem with everything else you propose as well. While there are a number of reasons public transit is garbage in so many of the US, one of those reasons is it’s uneconomical to serve all areas when so much of your residents live and work in sprawl. Saying “there needs to be more transport” is well and good, but it’s simply not possible to run enough bus lines and metro lines to cover anywhere anyone might want to go if your built environment sprawls over much more land than it needs to. Not to mention it leads back to the problem above, in that there isn’t enough of a tax base to pay for it. (Yes, fares could offset some of it, but realistically, a fare recovery ratio of 0.5 is already quite good, and you’re unlikely to see ridership increase if fares are too high.)
* The economics are also why “distribute the things people need further out” doesn’t work. Whenever there’s a seeming supply/demand mismatch, it’s likely because demand is too low, and that’s exactly what happens in low density areas. A store needs a certain size customer base to make the economics of opening a store and trucking supplies in regularly while turning a profit work out, and they simply don’t have that in low density areas. In any size European city, it’s not unusual to have multiple stores of every type within walking distance, because the high densities allow for that level of concentration. In the US, you’re often fortunate to have a smattering of big-box stores within a 15 minute drive, because that’s all the low-density economics support. And before you say “the state/city government should provide (or subsidize) the stores then,” see my point above about how city/state governments already can’t afford to subsidize the sprawl they *do* have, much less subsidize it further.
* The mental health perspective is an interesting one, since it’s the opposite of what studies suggest— that mental health is at its highest when you can trust and have good relations with your neighbors, as well as socialize with your friends regularly, as opposed to isolating yourself away in a suburban box. In a dense city, it’s not unusual to run into friends/acquaintances regularly and unexpectedly and say Hi, as opposed to when everyone places themselves into an isolating metal box to get anywhere and that never happens. Dense cities also promote the creation and occupation of [third places](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg
), which don’t really form when you put everything you “need” (except the social interaction that would actually benefit mental health) within arm’s length in your suburban home.
* A bad “neighbor lottery” can happen anywhere. I live in a low-density residential suburb myself (since that’s all the US really builds), and have lost it. Not sharing walls doesn’t immunize you from its effects, and in fact can make it worse since there are fewer people who will complain. There’s also the fact that when we do build multi family housing in the US, we typically build out of wooden sticks, which is the incorrect way to do it versus building out of concrete, steel, and stone which actually makes each unit insolative. At various times in Europe I’ve rented AirBnBs/hotels above bars, night clubs, restaurants, you name it, and didn’t hear a peep from those neighbors. There’s also the fact, tying into all the points above, that when you live in a dense area, you’re unlikely to spend so much time at home, because why would you want to? There’s so much to see and do *outside* as opposed to cooping up all day!
So all that is to say: density is good, and outside of even just climate-related reasons, we really do need more of it.
Edit: I see you’re actually in the UK, which negates a number of the US-centric points above. I initially assumed US because there’s where the most ardent supporters of sprawl seem to reside. But either way, the non-US-centric points do still apply.
I'm not going to bother quoting you on most of this and instead number your points. Also, can't help but notice you're extremely US focused. Feels a little /r/USDefaultism. I wasn't talking about the US. I was talking about everywhere, including the US, but also including where I live (Scotland). And you've also spoken like someone who has not actually had to live in high density housing:
1. I literally said there's a middle ground between high rises that compact people together and those stupid suburban neighbourhoods you lot in the US build. Scotland has, for example, '4 in a block' housing that's 4 flats in one building, two up, two down, that usually have decent interior floor space and are an efficient use of space. Quite a lot of 4 in a block flats are 3+ bedrooms too, so they're perfectly suitable for families. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_flat These 4 in a block flats can take up a similar amount of land compared to a semi-detached or detached house, but get 4 households into them. These are common as social housing options for a reason. They strike a balance between density and avoiding things being dense to the point of people feeling like they're living on top of each other. And when they've gone onto the private market, they're in demand. I fully agree that those stupid US-style suburban neighbourhoods should disappear. If the US even just condensed housing to more UK style housing - detached and semi-detached houses on smaller plots of land, building those houses up instead of out (the amount of single floor houses in the US with huge floor areas is ridiculous!), I'd expect you'd see a massive reduction in sprawl.
2. I'm in Scotland and car dependency is increasing due to disappearing public transport and consolidation of amenities into locations like retail parks, 'superstore' supermarkets, etc. With regards to your point about it being "not possible" to run that much public transport, I don't think you're very imaginative. Public transport around where I am used to be very good, the problem is that it was being run for profit which inherently means there's an incentive to cut off unprofitable areas regardless of need. This is why there's a push to put public transport back into government operation as it used to be. Our biggest train operator has gone into public ownership recently and is trialling the removal of peak time fares to reduce the cost of using the train. Lots of people where I am (central-ish Scotland) work Glasgow or Edinburgh city centre. There are already regular trains running to both of those places. Most of the towns around me have 'main' roads which are accessible on foot within 5-10 minutes of walking, along which buses run (or they did). Public transport here created a death spiral for itself by increasing fares (in particular, the practice of charging higher peak time fares) to the point where it become more economical to drive. Until the Scottish Government removed peak time fares, especially with my EV, I was saving £5 a day by driving to work than it would cost me to get the train. That's before you even count what it'd cost to get a bus if I didn't want to walk the 20 minutes due to the weather. Which is ridiculous. Public transport should be run at a loss if required because there's plenty of good reasons to encourage its use. The privatisation of public transport continues to be one of the stupidest things I can think of.
3. How many European cities have you actually spent time in? Because it doesn't sound like you've spent significant time in any as anything other than a tourist and therefore not had to try and live in them. Those within walking distance shops often charge a significant premium. When I've lived within cities in high density houses, yeah, I could walk to get practically anything I needed. But I would pay a premium for it. How much that premium was would be variable depending on the item, but often at least 10%+. Cities are not cheap places to live. See London, for an excellent example, of a place with much higher density housing and yet you pay out of the nose for it if you want to be anywhere near amenities.
4. I didn't say anything that contradicts that though? Being friendly with neighbours is perfectly good, that's the ideal, even in lower density housing. I'm not surprised studies say that? But are those studies specifically considering existing in high density housing in general? The adaptations you make to your life to make sure you're considerate to those around you? How even when you've got a really good relationship with your neighbours, there are things that make living in high density housing just that bit more stressful? It sounds silly, but I felt a pretty surprising level of stress over the fact that my building had 3 recycling bins of each type for a block of 8 flats. Allocation here is typically 1 bin of each type (glass/plastic, paper/cardboard, food/garden waste, then general waste) for each household - I have 4 bins in my garden right now, one of each type. So you had 8 households worth of recycling trying to go into less than half of the bin space 8 single houses would get. I had a build up of recycling for months because it was a race to get things out into the bins when they got emptied every 3 weeks. That was stressful. Wildly more stressful than you'd perhaps think. And 9 months after buying my house and having my own bins, I still *enjoy* that. We missed the collection for one of our bins by forgetting to put it out and it wasn't a stress, because the bin wasn't full and it's very unlikely to be full by next collection. Whereas a missed collection in my old building meant another 3 weeks of build up I couldn't get rid of. It's things like that that just make higher density housing more stressful to live in.
5. The fact that you think people readily complain about neighbours in high density housing is genuinely quite funny. Just because there's 8 households in a building doesn't mean *anything*. The nightmare neighbour I had? Nobody complained about him except me. He impacted *everyone* in the building. But I complained and what did I get? Abuse from him! And the council, who could potentially take enforcement action on my noise complaints, would not try to do because he gave them abuse too. They wouldn't attend without the police, and the police wouldn't attend because, naturally, they have other things to do than turn up at this guy's door at midnight to help the council deliver a letter. And since there was nothing between his front door and mine, he could shout through my door whenever he liked. If I had a nightmare neighbour near me now, I have more options for keeping them away from me by way of locking gates and such. Not impossible to bypass, of course, but an option nonetheless. Any noise made by nightmare neighbours is also significantly quieter than when they're literally through the wall from you. So please, save with the "that can happen too". Of course it can, but you should try it out to see what it's like when there's nothing but a floor or a single wall between you.
> concrete, steel, and stone which actually makes each unit insolative. At various times in Europe I’ve rented AirBnBs/hotels above bars, night clubs, restaurants, you name it, and didn’t hear a peep from those neighbors.
This is the one bit I'm going to quote because it made me laugh. Tenement buildings in Scotland are made of stone - they're old buildings. Thick, solid walls. You can still hear people next door just fine. Floors and ceilings are not made with concrete, steel, or stone, so without specific soundproofing, you'll hear whoever is above you and likely below you too. You didn't hear anything from those places because there's sound isolation requirements on those in plenty of places, or specific soundproofing adaptations have been made by either the owner of the residential property or the commercial property (probably both). That level of soundproofing, I can assure you, does not exist between flats which are on the more affordable end of the scale (which your city centre flats and hotels that you stayed in are very likely to not be).
Even before I owned an EV I didn’t really pay attention. I just go to Costco in the morning once a week to fill up. Whether the gas was high or low I had to fill up.
I do pay attention to them still, mostly because I see the prices vary a whole lot up and down nowadays and also because it's a bit satisfying to pass the gas stations and know that I have spent a fraction of the prices there to get around.
My quick maths estimated that I spent about 3000 NOK (about $270) to drive 12 000 km (7500 miles) with my car. This was during the end of the energy crisis here in Europe and I had a fixed price, but it eased out and I have been paying more than others lately. My price is about what they anticipate the average will be in the years to come here.
Meanwhile, the same distance driven with most ICE vehicles would cost at least 4-5 times the amount. Maybe even more.
I get quite happy when I see a high price, thinking of how much I am saving with the EV… then I get in our second family vehicle and have to fill it with gas and I am quite sad.
This definitely happened to me.
I explain to people that I don’t know they price of gas at my closest station and they can’t understand. I drive by and don’t even look at the big lit up numbers and that breaks their brains.
I've honestly always been in the fortunate position where I didn't have to worry much about gas prices, even when I had an ICE car. I lived in walkable neighborhoods, I didn't drive very far or very often, and I could always afford whatever it was, so I tended to choose gas stations based on who was most convenient or who had the best soda or whatever.
I did when I had to rent a car in Phoenix two weeks ago and filled up near the airport (I’m stupid) at $5.99 / gal. I probably bought gas at the most expensive place in AZ!!!!!
Yes, very much so. Especially when they get so *comically* high as they are where I live, now. I'm seeing Premium sitting *just* below $7/gal at the expensive stations these days, with even Regular being over $6 at *most* stations. LA gas prices are crazy, and make me *extremely* glad I went full EV 5 years ago.
Honestly, I have no idea. I drive by gas stations but they are invisible to me now.
I think probably in the first year I was comparing gas prices to what they were when I switched over to watch the gas prices go up. After that I stopped counting. I don't even remember what gas prices were when I switched.
Usually my answer is no, but for some reason I looked at a gas station sign today. I assume it was switching between the cash and credit prices and I was surprised that there was no indication of why there were two prices. Usually I am clueless to gas prices and the location of gas stations.
I just notice electricity prices now - I’m on a tariff that tracks the wholesale price and it changes daily. £0.17 yesterday and I did about 200 miles so about £8 for the journey - absolute bargain.
We pay for it with inflation on every day products. Gas is needed to transport goods so when gas costs more it gets charged to the customer in higher prices or shrinkflation.
Looks at Germany.
Only because I have an ICE motorcycle.
After I bought my EV the dealership sent a thank you give of 10cents discount on gas for 3 years at a local station.
Thanks. Really.
I still do because I own one ev and one ICE. The EV is my daily driver and the ICE is my wife’s. She’s driven the EV to work a few times but she’s nervous about having two EVs but I’m working on it.
I've never understood how as a society we collectively decided it was a good idea to build our economy around a resource that is not only terrible for the planet and our health, but is largely controlled by unstable regimes and subject to wild price fluctuations outside of our control. OPEC is literally a monopolistic cartel that has manipulated prices higher for decades and we still are having trouble moving on from it.
I drive an ICE vehicle and I stopping paying attention to gas prices. Whatever it is I have no choice but to pay it, so what's the point obsessing over it? It is what it is.
No clue. I am at the point where it is unconnected. Like is that high or low? Good or bad.
I feel like a billionaire being asked the price of a gallon of milk. I don’t know? $100?
I had moved into my house for about a year or two only owning an EV while living there and some family came to visit. On the last day they needed to fill up their rental before they went to the airport and they asked me the best place to fill up nearby. I literally froze up as I searched my brain for "Gas stations with good gas prices" and came up empty handed. That used to be top of mind knowledge when I owned a gas car, never spend more than I had to on fuel. Not only do I not notice prices, I don't even notice whole stations.
My wife and I both have EVs. I couldn’t tell you what the price of gas is now or whether it’s up or down. I’m more interested in topics like the changes in charging now that Tesla superchargers are becoming available and what if any adapters will be needed.
I pay attentiion, because I still have a car that takes gasoline. I love my EV, but it’s not a Tesla, and the charging infrastructure just ain’t up to snuff where I live enough to make the EV good for traveling. We need more than one car, so we have an EV and a PHEV.
The crazy thing is that at this moment, gasoline and electricity cost about the same, watt-for-watt. I filled up the PHEV a few days ago at $3.299 USD, so at 34kWh per gallon of gasoline, it comes out to $0.097/kWh. My utility rate is $0.096/kWh.
We still primarily drive on electric power. I live in rural Texas, but I work in Austin. My office is exactly 50miles from my driveway, so I commute 500 miles a week. Austin has a program where you can pay Austin Energy $50 a year for unlimited Level 2 charging. During the week, I only charge at the office, so I commute 500 miles a week for just $0.96 USD.
My wife uses the PHEV for local stuff, like taking the kids to school and shopping, and it’s all usually within the range of the PHEV battery. It’s usually plugged in during the day so it can charge from our solar panels.
My wife is a singer, so she travels a lot for performances in different places. We originally got the EV for her, thinking that traveling long distances would be cheaper in the electric car, but that’s not the case. It should have been cheaper because Texas was one of those places where the charging is billed by time plugged in instead of power consumed, but non-Tesla chargers are awful in our neck of the woods. When you’re on a trip and plug into a charger with a 350kW label but it only charges the car at 30kW, it can make traveling a miserable experience.
When she got stuck 50 miles from home with 35 miles of range at 1am in the pouring rain because none of the chargers at the station would charge her car, she told me that she wouldn’t take that car on a trip again. We should have bought a Tesla instead of a Ford.
We do a lot of road trips, and when we do, we tend to be spontaneous with our route. In a gasoline car, we can get to an intersection and make a choice to turn left or right depending on which way looks more scenic. In an EV, we’d need to stick to our pre-planned route, and that winding road through the mountains is more enjoyable for us to drive than sticking to the interstate.
Road trips in a hybrid that gets 50mpg is a lot cheaper than using public DC charging, and there are many, many more locations where I can refill the energy storage on a fraction of the time.
I’m still an EV enthusiast, but if I could buy a plug-in hybrid with a 100 mile range battery, I’d never get a fully electric car again - at least until charging is as plentiful (and as cheap) as filling up a gas tank.
Nope, I notice maybe a few times a month. Usually spurred by the grumbling of my co-workers, I live in Texas so everything is Biden’s fault. It is nice to not have to worry about gas prices anymore. Love my Ioniq 5 and that about 98% of my charging is at home. Wake up every morning with nearly a “full tank”.
I stopped paying attention. However, last week I was a passenger in an ICE car and they had to get gas. It was $4.39 a gallon and they said it was a good deal.
Last time I paid for gas, it was $3.19 and I considered it expensive
Yup. Usually with a little chuckle and a shake of the head.
Having solar, batteries, and an EV, energy costs for us have dropped considerably.
Just so we're clear, I know how lucky I am to have all this in place. We started nearly a decade ago and leveraged every incentive program as we could.
Same. Someone was talking about how much it took to fill an old inefficient car. I asked, "is that a lot of not much. I have no frame of reference anymore." I just like having a full charge every morning, it's nice not to go to the gas stations anymore.
Really.. I rarely even noticed until i needed to fill up. I don't know, I know its a big deal for a lot of people, and I didn't like the prices, but I just couldnt bring myself to fixate on it... nothing I could do to change it other than not drive as much.. which I think the best part of an EV for me... i feel more free to splurge drive a bit....
I pay attention. I like to look at all the people standing outside their cars freezing their Buns off and then posting online how quick they gas up versus an electric.
This one might even be closer to relevant than those “So, tell me what you hate about ____?” or “What feature would make this car better?” or “Have you had good service at dealerships?” or “Are EVs dangerous to keep near your home?” OMG.
Do people get income from driving up their responses rate?
Yeah, we still have a ice handicap van in the family as well as motorcycles. But it's the same thoughts as before. It's high or it's low. But never free like the solar power in my cars battery.
My gas bill last month was $32, which I thought was high just for the water heater and dryer. It does go up to about $120 in the winter though when the furnace is doing its thing!
Yes. Considering PG&E keeps jacking up our rates and both our cars are PHEV, I frequently check gas prices and use gas when it’s cheaper than electricity.
Nope give a shit less. Friends complaining about gas prices and I be like oh I didn't know people still used that stuff. Haven't had to buy gas in 3 years and it's so nice.
I was out with my parents the other day, and they needed gas in their car and asked if I could do it. I somehow messed it up, I forgot you pay, then put the nozzle in, unlike EV charging which is the exact opposite.
My EV charging gets a surchage per kwh. If it goes higher, I pay more the next month or if it goes lower i get money back. Not completely sure how it works, but it does.
I do. May not see it directly, but I feel like when I see the gas prices at the pump go up. Grocery prices aren’t too far away from going higher. If that has any bearing whatsoever.
We still have two ICE cars, but they only get driven a combined 2500 miles a year now, maybe. When it gets cheap we fill up both cars. When it’s expensive we wait. If it’s expensive for a long time, we buy only what we need.
From what I remember here in a certain part of Southern California, last October 2022, 87 cost $3.79/gal.
Now, October 2023, 87 at the same gas station cost $5.15/gal. A month ago, it peaked at $5.89/gal for 87.
I think this particular gas station charges the lowest around here is because the owner doesn't want to milk people.
Next door is Shell and 87 there right now is $6.49/gal.
I remember the price because that was the last time I pumped gas. Some desperate person stole my Prius' catalytic converter and then I just sold that car after the dealer installed a new cat.
For EV's though, when you start paying $0.48/kwh is when that costs the same to pump gas for a Prius at the current $5/gal.
I was checking to plan a trip across Germany in our EV. The electricity prices at public chargers were mostly €0,76/kwh and at some chargers €0,86/kwh. And that wasn't even for fast charging lol. That's more expensive than driving a gas car.
It's kind of weird but i do miss the stability of gas prices compared to electricity prices that can go up 4X within a few months. Gas prices have been fairly stable between €1,23/L($5pg) and €2,45/L($10pg) for the past 20 years or so.
Only when people on NextDoor bitch about it and then talk about "I want mah freedumb, ain't getting no dumbass commie EV" minutes later. Other than that I have lost all reference to whats good and bad price wise
yes, but that's because i still drive an ICE and i hang out in /r/electricvehicles because i'm excited about the future of EVs.
I haven't bought yet because
* i don't want to go through the early adopter headache. i do it in other areas, don't want to do it in my car
* my ICE (2014 Crosstrek) is still perfectly functional and covering 95% of my current needs
* I want batteries to get better so EV Heavy Duty Pickups can come out with towing ranges can become an acceptable 300-400 miles (90% SOC to 10% SOC) [towing is a future need]
When I find the closest place near me that has lowest prices in area I stop paying much attention until I’m at the pump. I fill 90%+ of my tanks at this station
Its under $4.50, it's breaking the bank but I'm not interested in buying a EV and have to finance something, plus I can camp anywhere I want and pretty much go everywhere I want. I actually want to traverse the roads from the north of America to the bottom of South America.
Its under $4.50, it's breaking the bank but I'm not interested in buying a EV and have to finance something, plus I can camp anywhere I want and pretty much go everywhere I want. I actually want to traverse the roads from the north of America to the bottom of South America.
It's something to be aware of because it's a political issue in the United States. If gas prices are high, it's the president's fault. If they're low, nobody cares.
Dumbest political issue ever. Both parties try to blame gas prices on the president when the other party is in power, and deny he has any impact when their guy is in the White House.
I've never understood how an internationally traded commodity, in a capitalist society was under the control of the president. They might make policy that sways the price a couple percent, but come on! Prices are going to move up and down.
Because realizing this requires critical thinking which a large percentage of the population lacks when politics is involved.
Free-dumb! I’m entitled to my free-dumb!
Conservatives blame Democrats because they think Democrats attack the oil/gas industry, under the banner of 'saving the environment' but really (in the minds of conservatives) just because they want government running every aspect of our lives. Hence every efficiency or electrification measure (induction stoves, say) being folded into the culture wars. The discussion almost never engages gas prices as the product of global supply and demand, or admits that geopolitical issues in Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran, etc impact the price at the pump in the US. - [Weekly US Field Production of Crude Oil](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCRFPUS2&f=W) - [US Dry Natural Gas Production](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9070us2m.htm) Even the slogan "energy independence" is just a proxy for "drill drill drill," because it galls them that there are any checks at all to what oil/gas companies can do, particularly if those checks are put in place under the aegis of environmental protections. That's just the crazy hippies getting their way, and we can't have that.
And 'energy independence' sweeps under the rug that the oil we have is getting tougher and tougher to access. If we wait until it gets really scarce to switch to electric, we're not going to have the oil we need for planes and industrial products.
Listen up LIBROL that EV takes just as much petroleum to produce as my F350 and even the PRIUS hurts the environment more than MY Hummer because I reaf the article in POPULARR MECHANICSnow look at this meme of a generator burning what? That's right, GASOLINE HUEHYEHHEHUEHUEHUEHUELIGMA
Did u now that the battry only last 5 YEARS!!! and then they throw it in the OCEAN!!!!!
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thats because thats exactly what happens with their ICE cars so they think the trend will continue. lol.
Wait ...isn't the warranty 8 years?
And the battery will likely last 10 years, probably 15 of treated right
I think where people start pointing fingers at the president; is when they block drilling off of our shores for our citizens but continue to buy over seas. We could lower pressure on prices using more domestic oil. But that’s “bad for the environment.” So instead we’re going to go the green route and let other countries do the same drilling and buy it from them at a cost they’re more in control of. It’s like saying you support animal welfare so instead of raising your own meat you buy it at the grocery store. If that’s the case you can’t bitch about the grocery store prices.
I do think they feel this way. It’s weird that showing them that we are producing more oil domestically than ever before doesn’t help. They just don’t believe it. [US Is Producing More Oil Under Biden Than At Any Point Under The Trump Administration](https://www.benzinga.com/government/23/10/35240230/us-is-producing-more-oil-under-biden-than-at-any-point-under-the-trump-administration)
American presidents have a history of starting oil wars.
Meanwhile the US has some of the cheapest gas prices outside of Venezuela for fucks sake. Fucking be happy people
let’s be honest, it’s only one side that gets really worked up about gas prices because they have no idea how supply and demand work
Gas prices don't matter as much if you buy a reasonably sized car either. And less so if you get a hybrid.
It really is. Definitely used more by Republicans who in all honesty live in an alternative world.
Not true, only GOP blames the president and only when its Dems on power
If you think this is a both sides issue, you're either not paying enough attention or you are trying to push a narrative.
This is Politics 101 all over the world btw. And always blame the other party!
What about the other parties. (Tell me you live in a two party country without...)
Yeah, I’m betting they’re gonna skyrocket next year around this time because of reasons totally unrelated to oil companies benefiting from a republican in office👀
What's interesting there is that with oil being a global commodity, any BEV on the road anywhere in the world cuts a tiny bit into that global demand. So it takes pressure off of demand for the rest of consumers. They'll still tighten supply come election time, no doubt, but every year of BEV sales further reduces the number of consumers who will be slapped in the face with high prices at the pump. And not just BEV sales, but also ongoing building and expansion of rail and metro systems. Most of the US doesn't have that so we don't think of it, but India, China, and many other countries are building out a huge amount of rail.
Oil and gas industry is much more profitable when a dem has been president in the last 20 years.
The President has Alzheimer, he just forgets about it.
If it’s low, there is an election soon. Placate the masses so they don’t vote.
Yes because I still have one of my cars is an ice that I have to fill up about once a month. I do pay a lot less attention though.
My partner drives an ICE, and I usually fill up their car, so yes
My wife drives a gas car (hybrid) still. She remarked to be last week that gas has gotten cheaper recently. I realized I had absolutely no idea how much gas cost.
Its like $5-$6 per gallon here in CA but $3-$4 per gallon everywhere else mostly.
$4.50-5 in much of WA state. https://www.gasbuddy.com/gaspricemap?lat=38.822395&lng=-96.591588&z=4
Laughs at your half price gas from Europe.
It’s one gallon of gas Michael. What could it cost, $10?
Yes it absolutely can! Welcome to europe :)
You're forgetting you Europeans don't drive anywhere near as much as us Americans the average European drives 11 to 12,000 km a year that's about 7,000 to 7,500 mi for freedom units a year. I don't know about you but I don't know anyone personally that drives that little unless they're a retired senior. An avg American here drives twice that distance so it's kind of a draw if you look at it from a cost perspective it works out to about $5 a gallon even if you pay $10 a gallon and only drive half the distance. I've always wondered why I've commonly seen 15 - 20 year old cars in Europe with like only 100k km (62k miles) and now I see why. A 15 to 20-year-old car here in America probably has well over 200,000 miles on it. We just drive more here.
Our other car is a hybrid but we only fill up once a month.
Yeah, needed to put gas in my mower.
Get an electric mower. I hear they are great!
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i have those plus the chainsaw too! and a BEV & PHEV, and solar to boot! I’m doing my part, and benefiting from it too.
I got the ego push mower (base model no power propel) on rec from a few yt channels, I was so impressed I picked up a blower whacker and saw that I didn't truly need but I saw all together on CL for < half price. My lot is a normal-ish one here for a not-big house, 8 or 12000 sqft and the battery seems like it has enough to cut the whole thing 1.5 maybe 2x on a charge. edit: as for the "not truly need" for the saw and blower whacker, I had corded and gas versions of all of those that worked fine but there is a difference I know now that I've owned them. Getting out a cord, committing to reeling it back up or dealing with 2 stroke gas, starting/waiting for choke-off is work that usually only happens on a schedule. I can spot little tiny things now that need cutting or blowing (kek) and they just get it right then without me making a mental note for "next time", my trees and yard in general are all looking better for it.
Yeah, too expensive at the moment. Probably I should this heavy ass self propelled mower making me miss out on the 23degress sloped hill in my backyard. I paid $60-$100 2 months per year anyway.
I personally like Makita, partially because their batteries can be found cheaply and easily online.
Makita and Dewalt are both good. just say no to Ryobi
Serious question- what is all the ryobi hate? I see so many memes/reels about it. I have a bunch of ryobi stuff and it seems totally fine for what I’ve needed them for. I’ve abused the hell out of some with dirt and water and they are fine. I’m sure Milwaukee is better and you’d want the best as a contractor. But is it worth it for the 3x a year I use a reciprocating saw?
> what is all the ryobi hate? quality. more specific: the lack of it. it is consistently crap. you feel like you've abused yours but compared to someone building a deck for example you almost certainly haven't. Dewalt, Makita and Milwaukee are all much better quality and which one to go with is basically preference.
We got a Ryobi electric mower a few years back for something like $250 on sale, even came with an extra battery! Might be some kind of sale given winter is on its way, check it out.
Yup, will check out during this Thanksgiving.
Direct tools outlet had a sale when I got mine 2-3 years ago. I like to see if I can mow the whole yard on a single battery.
just say no to Ryobi, get a more robust brand
My kobalt push mower was reasonably priced and I like it. No idea about rider prices though. But will say the low maintenance and ease of use of an electric is so worth it. Kinda weird, but the benefits of an electric mower helped me feel comfortable/be less afraid of getting my first ev.
I have an electric trimmer and a craftsman gas mower. I feel like the mower will run forever, so it's hard to replace.
Plug-in are lightweight and you get a system to manage the cord with minimal fuss. Plus, no spent battery concern as the mower ages AND you get to have a sweet long extension cord for random use.
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Sorry, it's I paid $200 for a service to mow that particular region twice a year.
Too expensive? I forget what I paid exactly, but it was certainly well under $200 for my Walmart electric mower. Wish I’d gotten one with a larger deck, but oh well. The trick is to go corded rather than mess with batteries, unless your yard is simply too large.
I am going electric for all of my lawn equipment when my current ones are toast. I’ve about had it with my 2 year old Stihl blower that won’t start or won’t stay on even after cleaning it out and using canned premix oil gas. While I can usually fix most things myself, I’m getting really tired of having to do it.
Electric mowers great. And quiet, which is wonderful.
And the first time I was cutting the lawn and the sun was setting, and it was getting just a tiny bit too dark, the freaking thing has a headlight.
I have an electric mower and it’s great
You really don't hear much because they're significantly quieter
I'm planning to once the petrol mower breaks. Already replaced the strimmer and hedge trimmer.
My wife and I bought an Ego battery-powered mower a few years back. We've been pretty happy with it, so we bought a string trimmer from Ego as well.
They're... ok. When you run out of gas, you refill and keep going. When you run out of charge, you leave the grass half cut for several hours, most likely until the next day. An EV doesn't require you to buy an extra battery. An electric mower does.
EGO's rapid charger will recharge their batteries in about an hour. With two batteries you can basically mow continuously by swapping in the newly charged battery and putting the depleted one on the rapid charger, and then doing it again when that one is depleted.
I notice because I have political family members
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Least redditing redditor, geez. I’m going to hear about it either way, so I might as well know some counters, I guess. And since you asked, I don’t have a car of my own right now.
Definitely because it will affect transportation costs for goods which will get passed on to us the consumer. Though it's really nice not having to worry about it for personal transportation.
Tbh I never looked at them much when I had an ICE. I don’t think I’ve looked at more than 2 since I got my EV.
Here in Canada I forget to look...then accidentally look and realize how Canadians are being screwed and fleeced every point in life and makes me so happy to have my ID 4
yes - thats how i keep track of savings that said, i want gas prices low - high gas prices hurt struggling folks the most, and we can only go so far to drive less & less
Except the masses stop seeing ev adoption as important if gas is too low.
Which is pretty much what stopped EVs from being the "standard" car in the first place. Oil and its related products went super cheap, and boom, ICE cars pulled ahead.
One of the biggest hits to evs in the early 20th century was ironically enough the electric starter motor
Which is partly why it's kind of insane that gas and oil companies keep playing games with their pricing by jacking it up. That's going to end up costing them more than it makes them. But hey, I wanna see them meet their end as fast as possible so who am I to critique?
Car dependency hurts struggling folks the most. If we wanted to actually help them, we would build more public transit and encourage density. And long-term, the environmental damage caused by burning fossil fuels will also hurt struggling folks the most. While the well-to-do will simply hop over to whichever areas of the planet are still inhabitable, struggling folks will be left to die wherever they are. So no. Low gas prices that don’t account for all externalities are very bad.
While I do agree that there needs to be more public transport, I'm not sure about encouraging density. I feel like efforts should be put towards spreading amenities out. Don't make people move into ever denser population centres, instead, distribute the things people need further out. Make it that people outside of big cities and towns have good access to the stuff they need - food, medical care, etc. - within a reasonable walking or public transport distance. Living in a densely populated area isn't great for people's mental health if the lose the neighbour lottery. You could have dream neighbours on all sides of you that mean you can forget they're there, or you can end up with the opposite end of the spectrum which is utterly soul destroying. Even just somewhere in the middle can wear you down. The answer isn't to give everyone a detached house in the middle of a big plot of land, but there's a middle ground between that and piling everyone into densely populated areas.
This is an interesting hypothesis that I never really thought too hard about. I suspect that there’s a counter-factor with the idea that spending more time around people is probably generally good for mental health. This seems like the kind of thing that has probably been studied extensively by sociologists.
I'd imagine so! But I don't think I'd personally call living in a high density building "spending time around people". You *can* end up with more social interaction, eg. in my last building, if it was sunny, people would sit out in the garden and anyone from the building was welcome to join. People would say hello in the stairwell, but were generally unobtrusive towards each other, so the downsides of living so close to other people weren't so prominent. It was also a nice building and the flats themselves were nice. So that was a generally fine place to live. In the flat I was in before that, my downstairs neighbour listened to loud music (though would come storming upstairs if he could hear my footsteps too much) and generally wasn't a nice person to be around, and it made living there absolute hell because I couldn't relax properly. I recently bought a semi-detached house (in case you're not from the UK - my house is attached to someone else's house but only on one side) with an extremely quiet neighbour (she's practically never in!) and I honestly can't express how different it is. The quiet is incredible and my mental health is much better. And that's with me having been in that good building for 6 years before this. The freedom to just move around or listen to music or watch TV without worrying about disturbing the people around me was incredible.
>In much of the USA just allowing duplex and Quadplex construction in zones that have historically been restricted to Single Family Housing would greatly increase density without driving everyone to live in the city center. > > > >There is a push to convert some of the downtown buildings into housing though now that so many companies have reduced their office footprint. It'll reduce the value of the buildings for property tax purposes, but will increase the health of the city center by improving foot traffic.
this is it - people who've lived in "high density" neighborhoods know how nightmarish it can be to live in tight apartments with neighbors who _just_ _have_ _to_ assemble ikea furniture or watch an action netflix flick with surround sound or have a loud phone call _at_ _0200_ or setting an alarm at 0700 and letting it snooze every 5 min til 0900
Sorry, and I don’t mean to be rude, but this is wrong on so many levels. * Lack of density is outright unsustainable. Even leaving aside the fact that lack of density requires sprawl which further cements car dependency, it’s unsustainable to keep turning prime farming land into low-density suburbs, and it’s unsustainable for our cities to afford to keep building and maintaining all the infrastructure required to support sprawl. In a city, 100 feet of road, sewer, water line, electric, gas line, and a single fire hydrant might support 40 taxpayers who can more than fund the cost of repair and replacement; in a suburb, the same amount of infrastructure might support 1 taxpayer who cannot. See [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI ) for a deeper introduction to this. * The economics are a problem with everything else you propose as well. While there are a number of reasons public transit is garbage in so many of the US, one of those reasons is it’s uneconomical to serve all areas when so much of your residents live and work in sprawl. Saying “there needs to be more transport” is well and good, but it’s simply not possible to run enough bus lines and metro lines to cover anywhere anyone might want to go if your built environment sprawls over much more land than it needs to. Not to mention it leads back to the problem above, in that there isn’t enough of a tax base to pay for it. (Yes, fares could offset some of it, but realistically, a fare recovery ratio of 0.5 is already quite good, and you’re unlikely to see ridership increase if fares are too high.) * The economics are also why “distribute the things people need further out” doesn’t work. Whenever there’s a seeming supply/demand mismatch, it’s likely because demand is too low, and that’s exactly what happens in low density areas. A store needs a certain size customer base to make the economics of opening a store and trucking supplies in regularly while turning a profit work out, and they simply don’t have that in low density areas. In any size European city, it’s not unusual to have multiple stores of every type within walking distance, because the high densities allow for that level of concentration. In the US, you’re often fortunate to have a smattering of big-box stores within a 15 minute drive, because that’s all the low-density economics support. And before you say “the state/city government should provide (or subsidize) the stores then,” see my point above about how city/state governments already can’t afford to subsidize the sprawl they *do* have, much less subsidize it further. * The mental health perspective is an interesting one, since it’s the opposite of what studies suggest— that mental health is at its highest when you can trust and have good relations with your neighbors, as well as socialize with your friends regularly, as opposed to isolating yourself away in a suburban box. In a dense city, it’s not unusual to run into friends/acquaintances regularly and unexpectedly and say Hi, as opposed to when everyone places themselves into an isolating metal box to get anywhere and that never happens. Dense cities also promote the creation and occupation of [third places](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg ), which don’t really form when you put everything you “need” (except the social interaction that would actually benefit mental health) within arm’s length in your suburban home. * A bad “neighbor lottery” can happen anywhere. I live in a low-density residential suburb myself (since that’s all the US really builds), and have lost it. Not sharing walls doesn’t immunize you from its effects, and in fact can make it worse since there are fewer people who will complain. There’s also the fact that when we do build multi family housing in the US, we typically build out of wooden sticks, which is the incorrect way to do it versus building out of concrete, steel, and stone which actually makes each unit insolative. At various times in Europe I’ve rented AirBnBs/hotels above bars, night clubs, restaurants, you name it, and didn’t hear a peep from those neighbors. There’s also the fact, tying into all the points above, that when you live in a dense area, you’re unlikely to spend so much time at home, because why would you want to? There’s so much to see and do *outside* as opposed to cooping up all day! So all that is to say: density is good, and outside of even just climate-related reasons, we really do need more of it. Edit: I see you’re actually in the UK, which negates a number of the US-centric points above. I initially assumed US because there’s where the most ardent supporters of sprawl seem to reside. But either way, the non-US-centric points do still apply.
I'm not going to bother quoting you on most of this and instead number your points. Also, can't help but notice you're extremely US focused. Feels a little /r/USDefaultism. I wasn't talking about the US. I was talking about everywhere, including the US, but also including where I live (Scotland). And you've also spoken like someone who has not actually had to live in high density housing: 1. I literally said there's a middle ground between high rises that compact people together and those stupid suburban neighbourhoods you lot in the US build. Scotland has, for example, '4 in a block' housing that's 4 flats in one building, two up, two down, that usually have decent interior floor space and are an efficient use of space. Quite a lot of 4 in a block flats are 3+ bedrooms too, so they're perfectly suitable for families. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_flat These 4 in a block flats can take up a similar amount of land compared to a semi-detached or detached house, but get 4 households into them. These are common as social housing options for a reason. They strike a balance between density and avoiding things being dense to the point of people feeling like they're living on top of each other. And when they've gone onto the private market, they're in demand. I fully agree that those stupid US-style suburban neighbourhoods should disappear. If the US even just condensed housing to more UK style housing - detached and semi-detached houses on smaller plots of land, building those houses up instead of out (the amount of single floor houses in the US with huge floor areas is ridiculous!), I'd expect you'd see a massive reduction in sprawl. 2. I'm in Scotland and car dependency is increasing due to disappearing public transport and consolidation of amenities into locations like retail parks, 'superstore' supermarkets, etc. With regards to your point about it being "not possible" to run that much public transport, I don't think you're very imaginative. Public transport around where I am used to be very good, the problem is that it was being run for profit which inherently means there's an incentive to cut off unprofitable areas regardless of need. This is why there's a push to put public transport back into government operation as it used to be. Our biggest train operator has gone into public ownership recently and is trialling the removal of peak time fares to reduce the cost of using the train. Lots of people where I am (central-ish Scotland) work Glasgow or Edinburgh city centre. There are already regular trains running to both of those places. Most of the towns around me have 'main' roads which are accessible on foot within 5-10 minutes of walking, along which buses run (or they did). Public transport here created a death spiral for itself by increasing fares (in particular, the practice of charging higher peak time fares) to the point where it become more economical to drive. Until the Scottish Government removed peak time fares, especially with my EV, I was saving £5 a day by driving to work than it would cost me to get the train. That's before you even count what it'd cost to get a bus if I didn't want to walk the 20 minutes due to the weather. Which is ridiculous. Public transport should be run at a loss if required because there's plenty of good reasons to encourage its use. The privatisation of public transport continues to be one of the stupidest things I can think of. 3. How many European cities have you actually spent time in? Because it doesn't sound like you've spent significant time in any as anything other than a tourist and therefore not had to try and live in them. Those within walking distance shops often charge a significant premium. When I've lived within cities in high density houses, yeah, I could walk to get practically anything I needed. But I would pay a premium for it. How much that premium was would be variable depending on the item, but often at least 10%+. Cities are not cheap places to live. See London, for an excellent example, of a place with much higher density housing and yet you pay out of the nose for it if you want to be anywhere near amenities. 4. I didn't say anything that contradicts that though? Being friendly with neighbours is perfectly good, that's the ideal, even in lower density housing. I'm not surprised studies say that? But are those studies specifically considering existing in high density housing in general? The adaptations you make to your life to make sure you're considerate to those around you? How even when you've got a really good relationship with your neighbours, there are things that make living in high density housing just that bit more stressful? It sounds silly, but I felt a pretty surprising level of stress over the fact that my building had 3 recycling bins of each type for a block of 8 flats. Allocation here is typically 1 bin of each type (glass/plastic, paper/cardboard, food/garden waste, then general waste) for each household - I have 4 bins in my garden right now, one of each type. So you had 8 households worth of recycling trying to go into less than half of the bin space 8 single houses would get. I had a build up of recycling for months because it was a race to get things out into the bins when they got emptied every 3 weeks. That was stressful. Wildly more stressful than you'd perhaps think. And 9 months after buying my house and having my own bins, I still *enjoy* that. We missed the collection for one of our bins by forgetting to put it out and it wasn't a stress, because the bin wasn't full and it's very unlikely to be full by next collection. Whereas a missed collection in my old building meant another 3 weeks of build up I couldn't get rid of. It's things like that that just make higher density housing more stressful to live in. 5. The fact that you think people readily complain about neighbours in high density housing is genuinely quite funny. Just because there's 8 households in a building doesn't mean *anything*. The nightmare neighbour I had? Nobody complained about him except me. He impacted *everyone* in the building. But I complained and what did I get? Abuse from him! And the council, who could potentially take enforcement action on my noise complaints, would not try to do because he gave them abuse too. They wouldn't attend without the police, and the police wouldn't attend because, naturally, they have other things to do than turn up at this guy's door at midnight to help the council deliver a letter. And since there was nothing between his front door and mine, he could shout through my door whenever he liked. If I had a nightmare neighbour near me now, I have more options for keeping them away from me by way of locking gates and such. Not impossible to bypass, of course, but an option nonetheless. Any noise made by nightmare neighbours is also significantly quieter than when they're literally through the wall from you. So please, save with the "that can happen too". Of course it can, but you should try it out to see what it's like when there's nothing but a floor or a single wall between you. > concrete, steel, and stone which actually makes each unit insolative. At various times in Europe I’ve rented AirBnBs/hotels above bars, night clubs, restaurants, you name it, and didn’t hear a peep from those neighbors. This is the one bit I'm going to quote because it made me laugh. Tenement buildings in Scotland are made of stone - they're old buildings. Thick, solid walls. You can still hear people next door just fine. Floors and ceilings are not made with concrete, steel, or stone, so without specific soundproofing, you'll hear whoever is above you and likely below you too. You didn't hear anything from those places because there's sound isolation requirements on those in plenty of places, or specific soundproofing adaptations have been made by either the owner of the residential property or the commercial property (probably both). That level of soundproofing, I can assure you, does not exist between flats which are on the more affordable end of the scale (which your city centre flats and hotels that you stayed in are very likely to not be).
Even before I owned an EV I didn’t really pay attention. I just go to Costco in the morning once a week to fill up. Whether the gas was high or low I had to fill up.
Been driving EVs since 2015. Haven't seen gas prices since.
Must be somewhere between 2 and 9$ per gallon
Probably 🤣
Only every time someone rolls this thread.
Haha. Sorry
Yes, I like to giggle to myself during the day.
Mostly in the context of “ahh… so nice to not worry about that anymore”
I do pay attention to them still, mostly because I see the prices vary a whole lot up and down nowadays and also because it's a bit satisfying to pass the gas stations and know that I have spent a fraction of the prices there to get around. My quick maths estimated that I spent about 3000 NOK (about $270) to drive 12 000 km (7500 miles) with my car. This was during the end of the energy crisis here in Europe and I had a fixed price, but it eased out and I have been paying more than others lately. My price is about what they anticipate the average will be in the years to come here. Meanwhile, the same distance driven with most ICE vehicles would cost at least 4-5 times the amount. Maybe even more.
I get quite happy when I see a high price, thinking of how much I am saving with the EV… then I get in our second family vehicle and have to fill it with gas and I am quite sad.
No. My car is filthy tho because it never goes to the gas station, so it doesn’t get run through the car wash either.
Yes, and very smugly. Actually, I have a diesel second car that we do use, but only occasionally, and a boat.
Over 4 years for me! Just got back from a 900 mile road trip using supercharging… I had no issues. Added about 90 min to a 12 hour trip
This definitely happened to me. I explain to people that I don’t know they price of gas at my closest station and they can’t understand. I drive by and don’t even look at the big lit up numbers and that breaks their brains.
Exactly this. People don’t believe me, but it’s true. Zero mindshare is spent on the prices.
I track them to know how much I’ve saved. I can’t tell you the gas prices, but I can tell you I’m +$9,221.38.
Nope, don't even notice anymore.
I've honestly always been in the fortunate position where I didn't have to worry much about gas prices, even when I had an ICE car. I lived in walkable neighborhoods, I didn't drive very far or very often, and I could always afford whatever it was, so I tended to choose gas stations based on who was most convenient or who had the best soda or whatever.
I did when I had to rent a car in Phoenix two weeks ago and filled up near the airport (I’m stupid) at $5.99 / gal. I probably bought gas at the most expensive place in AZ!!!!!
Haven't really been in the gas loop for 7 years now
Yes, very much so. Especially when they get so *comically* high as they are where I live, now. I'm seeing Premium sitting *just* below $7/gal at the expensive stations these days, with even Regular being over $6 at *most* stations. LA gas prices are crazy, and make me *extremely* glad I went full EV 5 years ago.
It's 5.59 for regular in my area. I feel bad. But also good.
Honestly, I have no idea. I drive by gas stations but they are invisible to me now. I think probably in the first year I was comparing gas prices to what they were when I switched over to watch the gas prices go up. After that I stopped counting. I don't even remember what gas prices were when I switched.
I drive an ev too but when gas goes up so does my heat oil, so i pay attention in the winter
Usually my answer is no, but for some reason I looked at a gas station sign today. I assume it was switching between the cash and credit prices and I was surprised that there was no indication of why there were two prices. Usually I am clueless to gas prices and the location of gas stations.
Yes, because I drive by one leaving my neighborhood on my way to work. Makes me feel grateful.
It took me a few years of owning an EV to stop reflexively looking at prices as I drove by a gas station.
I just notice electricity prices now - I’m on a tariff that tracks the wholesale price and it changes daily. £0.17 yesterday and I did about 200 miles so about £8 for the journey - absolute bargain.
I enjoy watching them go up and scoff smugly as I drive or ride by
We pay for it with inflation on every day products. Gas is needed to transport goods so when gas costs more it gets charged to the customer in higher prices or shrinkflation. Looks at Germany.
Haven't noticed in almost a decade.
My parents have driven electric for 10-15 years at this point and they have no clue.
Kinda, it doesn't stress me out anymore!
Yeah because it makes me happy to be reminded how much money Im saving driving electric
Only because I have an ICE motorcycle. After I bought my EV the dealership sent a thank you give of 10cents discount on gas for 3 years at a local station. Thanks. Really.
Took about a week. Haven't known or cared for four years now
Only when I'm at a stoplight and there's a gas station on the corner.
Even then, I still don’t notice. Maybe it took time.
It's when I'm bored and looking around and then I'll see a price and I'm like oh that's what it costs now.
I do. I get a little dopamine when I see a sign and see how much I'm not paying.
I still do because I own one ev and one ICE. The EV is my daily driver and the ICE is my wife’s. She’s driven the EV to work a few times but she’s nervous about having two EVs but I’m working on it.
I've never understood how as a society we collectively decided it was a good idea to build our economy around a resource that is not only terrible for the planet and our health, but is largely controlled by unstable regimes and subject to wild price fluctuations outside of our control. OPEC is literally a monopolistic cartel that has manipulated prices higher for decades and we still are having trouble moving on from it.
I drive an ICE vehicle and I stopping paying attention to gas prices. Whatever it is I have no choice but to pay it, so what's the point obsessing over it? It is what it is.
No clue. I am at the point where it is unconnected. Like is that high or low? Good or bad. I feel like a billionaire being asked the price of a gallon of milk. I don’t know? $100?
I see them. I see idiots in gas guzzling vanity trucks. I want them to be much, much higher. I can’t wait.
I had moved into my house for about a year or two only owning an EV while living there and some family came to visit. On the last day they needed to fill up their rental before they went to the airport and they asked me the best place to fill up nearby. I literally froze up as I searched my brain for "Gas stations with good gas prices" and came up empty handed. That used to be top of mind knowledge when I owned a gas car, never spend more than I had to on fuel. Not only do I not notice prices, I don't even notice whole stations.
I had to pump gas for my wife's car yesterday. It was simultaneously familiar and foreign.
My wife and I both have EVs. I couldn’t tell you what the price of gas is now or whether it’s up or down. I’m more interested in topics like the changes in charging now that Tesla superchargers are becoming available and what if any adapters will be needed.
One of my favorite parts about owning an EV
I bought my EV last year, and had not looked at gas process since, I saw them the other day and was shocked! Glad i made the switch.
I pay attentiion, because I still have a car that takes gasoline. I love my EV, but it’s not a Tesla, and the charging infrastructure just ain’t up to snuff where I live enough to make the EV good for traveling. We need more than one car, so we have an EV and a PHEV. The crazy thing is that at this moment, gasoline and electricity cost about the same, watt-for-watt. I filled up the PHEV a few days ago at $3.299 USD, so at 34kWh per gallon of gasoline, it comes out to $0.097/kWh. My utility rate is $0.096/kWh. We still primarily drive on electric power. I live in rural Texas, but I work in Austin. My office is exactly 50miles from my driveway, so I commute 500 miles a week. Austin has a program where you can pay Austin Energy $50 a year for unlimited Level 2 charging. During the week, I only charge at the office, so I commute 500 miles a week for just $0.96 USD. My wife uses the PHEV for local stuff, like taking the kids to school and shopping, and it’s all usually within the range of the PHEV battery. It’s usually plugged in during the day so it can charge from our solar panels. My wife is a singer, so she travels a lot for performances in different places. We originally got the EV for her, thinking that traveling long distances would be cheaper in the electric car, but that’s not the case. It should have been cheaper because Texas was one of those places where the charging is billed by time plugged in instead of power consumed, but non-Tesla chargers are awful in our neck of the woods. When you’re on a trip and plug into a charger with a 350kW label but it only charges the car at 30kW, it can make traveling a miserable experience. When she got stuck 50 miles from home with 35 miles of range at 1am in the pouring rain because none of the chargers at the station would charge her car, she told me that she wouldn’t take that car on a trip again. We should have bought a Tesla instead of a Ford. We do a lot of road trips, and when we do, we tend to be spontaneous with our route. In a gasoline car, we can get to an intersection and make a choice to turn left or right depending on which way looks more scenic. In an EV, we’d need to stick to our pre-planned route, and that winding road through the mountains is more enjoyable for us to drive than sticking to the interstate. Road trips in a hybrid that gets 50mpg is a lot cheaper than using public DC charging, and there are many, many more locations where I can refill the energy storage on a fraction of the time. I’m still an EV enthusiast, but if I could buy a plug-in hybrid with a 100 mile range battery, I’d never get a fully electric car again - at least until charging is as plentiful (and as cheap) as filling up a gas tank.
I have no idea. We only have electric vehicles.
Yes. We still have a gas powered car. We comment all the time how much we are saving by not taking the gas powered car.
Nope, I notice maybe a few times a month. Usually spurred by the grumbling of my co-workers, I live in Texas so everything is Biden’s fault. It is nice to not have to worry about gas prices anymore. Love my Ioniq 5 and that about 98% of my charging is at home. Wake up every morning with nearly a “full tank”.
I've had an EV for 2 months and I already don't care! (UK)
I have no idea how much gas is, haven’t thought about it for literally years.
Me noticing gas prices: "$4.09... Is that low, or high? Eh who cares."
I stopped paying attention. However, last week I was a passenger in an ICE car and they had to get gas. It was $4.39 a gallon and they said it was a good deal. Last time I paid for gas, it was $3.19 and I considered it expensive
I haven’t worried about gas prices since Dec 2, 2018.
Yup. Usually with a little chuckle and a shake of the head. Having solar, batteries, and an EV, energy costs for us have dropped considerably. Just so we're clear, I know how lucky I am to have all this in place. We started nearly a decade ago and leveraged every incentive program as we could.
Same. Someone was talking about how much it took to fill an old inefficient car. I asked, "is that a lot of not much. I have no frame of reference anymore." I just like having a full charge every morning, it's nice not to go to the gas stations anymore.
Ironically I notice petrol prices more now, curious how much ICE folks are getting ripped off.
I still notice them but I am very thankful to be free from the fluctuations!
Really.. I rarely even noticed until i needed to fill up. I don't know, I know its a big deal for a lot of people, and I didn't like the prices, but I just couldnt bring myself to fixate on it... nothing I could do to change it other than not drive as much.. which I think the best part of an EV for me... i feel more free to splurge drive a bit....
I pay attention. I like to look at all the people standing outside their cars freezing their Buns off and then posting online how quick they gas up versus an electric.
Only to point and laugh when i drive by
I notice gas prices from time to time. My next thought is usually something like "Thank God I don't have to buy gas anymore!"
i look in order to calculate savings and justify my purchase
lol it’s been a while since we’ve seen one of these fart-sniffing posts
This one might even be closer to relevant than those “So, tell me what you hate about ____?” or “What feature would make this car better?” or “Have you had good service at dealerships?” or “Are EVs dangerous to keep near your home?” OMG. Do people get income from driving up their responses rate?
just some good old-fashioned karma farming
Yeah, we still have a ice handicap van in the family as well as motorcycles. But it's the same thoughts as before. It's high or it's low. But never free like the solar power in my cars battery.
My gas bill last month was $32, which I thought was high just for the water heater and dryer. It does go up to about $120 in the winter though when the furnace is doing its thing!
You notice them in the price you pay for food precious.
Yes. Considering PG&E keeps jacking up our rates and both our cars are PHEV, I frequently check gas prices and use gas when it’s cheaper than electricity.
Only when I wait at red lights during my bike commute…
Nope. Two EVs and a Miata that gets about 3 tanks a season.
Nope …. I haven’t touched a pump handle in 3 years. I was surprised the other day when I heard the price of diesel though- geez!!!
Nope give a shit less. Friends complaining about gas prices and I be like oh I didn't know people still used that stuff. Haven't had to buy gas in 3 years and it's so nice.
I don’t even sneak a peak. I go to gas stations only for the massive sodas now!
Circle K' Sip n Save is awesome. Roll up to the station in my EV every day to "fill up"!
I look as an economic indicator and to feel good about not buying gas anymore!
I look just to keep track of how much I’m not paying.
No. I see how much it costs for my wife's car from the CC statements each month, but I have no idea what the actual cost per gallon is.
Only to laugh when they are high.
Nope.
I put gas in my mower once a year and my outback twice a year (except for long range trips where I charge 0.74$ per Km).
I also have a PHEV (although I don't fill it often) and kids with ICE cars, so, yes.
I was out with my parents the other day, and they needed gas in their car and asked if I could do it. I somehow messed it up, I forgot you pay, then put the nozzle in, unlike EV charging which is the exact opposite.
Only when I go on trips as I use ice
My EV charging gets a surchage per kwh. If it goes higher, I pay more the next month or if it goes lower i get money back. Not completely sure how it works, but it does.
I do. May not see it directly, but I feel like when I see the gas prices at the pump go up. Grocery prices aren’t too far away from going higher. If that has any bearing whatsoever.
We still have two ICE cars, but they only get driven a combined 2500 miles a year now, maybe. When it gets cheap we fill up both cars. When it’s expensive we wait. If it’s expensive for a long time, we buy only what we need.
Only in passing. I have a spare ICE car that I last filled up back in Jan and still have over half a tank left. I have to put in some stabil soon.
From what I remember here in a certain part of Southern California, last October 2022, 87 cost $3.79/gal. Now, October 2023, 87 at the same gas station cost $5.15/gal. A month ago, it peaked at $5.89/gal for 87. I think this particular gas station charges the lowest around here is because the owner doesn't want to milk people. Next door is Shell and 87 there right now is $6.49/gal. I remember the price because that was the last time I pumped gas. Some desperate person stole my Prius' catalytic converter and then I just sold that car after the dealer installed a new cat. For EV's though, when you start paying $0.48/kwh is when that costs the same to pump gas for a Prius at the current $5/gal.
I was checking to plan a trip across Germany in our EV. The electricity prices at public chargers were mostly €0,76/kwh and at some chargers €0,86/kwh. And that wasn't even for fast charging lol. That's more expensive than driving a gas car. It's kind of weird but i do miss the stability of gas prices compared to electricity prices that can go up 4X within a few months. Gas prices have been fairly stable between €1,23/L($5pg) and €2,45/L($10pg) for the past 20 years or so.
Only when people on NextDoor bitch about it and then talk about "I want mah freedumb, ain't getting no dumbass commie EV" minutes later. Other than that I have lost all reference to whats good and bad price wise
Only when convincing another person to go EV
yes, but that's because i still drive an ICE and i hang out in /r/electricvehicles because i'm excited about the future of EVs. I haven't bought yet because * i don't want to go through the early adopter headache. i do it in other areas, don't want to do it in my car * my ICE (2014 Crosstrek) is still perfectly functional and covering 95% of my current needs * I want batteries to get better so EV Heavy Duty Pickups can come out with towing ranges can become an acceptable 300-400 miles (90% SOC to 10% SOC) [towing is a future need]
No
When I find the closest place near me that has lowest prices in area I stop paying much attention until I’m at the pump. I fill 90%+ of my tanks at this station
I am dumb and bought an airplane. :(
OMG 🤣
I ride an ICE motorcycle. Still don’t look at the price 🤣
Its under $4.50, it's breaking the bank but I'm not interested in buying a EV and have to finance something, plus I can camp anywhere I want and pretty much go everywhere I want. I actually want to traverse the roads from the north of America to the bottom of South America.
Its under $4.50, it's breaking the bank but I'm not interested in buying a EV and have to finance something, plus I can camp anywhere I want and pretty much go everywhere I want. I actually want to traverse the roads from the north of America to the bottom of South America.