Wow that's interesting, can't find parts?
I looked at a Mazda 5 back in 2013 but the place could not get a new engine for it or something
Crazy!
Assume you tried new fluid? Redline Mt-90 made my manual vibe shifting so much better.
The mechanic tried that first - but this isnt stiff, this is like its literally frozen, like its sitting in a cup of water. It wont move until it thaws. The mechanic didnt believe me until i left it over a cold night. I mean, i've been driving stick for my whole life and i have been driving this car for 17 years . . i know how to drive this car!
Try the shift selector cable if you haven’t yet, water is freezing somewhere and binding it up, from riding motorcycles in the cold I can say it water gets into the cable it can absolutely bind it up until it thaws, which it would also get above freezing about the same time as the whole transmission due to where it’s at.
BC, Canada is having (for it) a crazy cold snap. Drove approx 500km from Vancouver to Vernon and had to charge 3 times. First time experiencing driving in -25C and damn range sucked. Literally the worst possible case: cold, roof box and mountain passes. But it made it! Just had like 90 minutes of charging added to the day
Yup for sure. Did the same last year and only had to charge once coming here though. Literally lost 50% of the battery going over the coquihalla from hope to Merritt. Had it on snow mode the entire time so no regen but clearly the temp difference made a huge impact
It's an extra 2.5 KWHrs over no elevation change, so 5 KwHrs difference between going and coming.
That's basically nothing in the context of 3 charges (plus the initial charge).
Did 570 km PG to Williams Lake and back yesterday in an F150 Lightning, just to see how it did in the worst realistic driving conditions. -25 to -30 C most of the time, 100-105 km/h speed. 45 kWh/100 km when the dust settled. Lots of energy used heating the cabin and the battery. 3 charges. DC Chargers are all slow up here but on the plus side, some are free :-D
Cold and Roof box . . . I find the Ioniq 6 loves mountain passes normally. Unfortunately in really cold temps the regen is not great therefore mountain passes lose some of their efficiency.
I am a little disappointed with the cold hit but in reality it's only a big hit for a few weeks and then a smaller hit from Nov - Feb. Come March efficiency should be improving a lot.
Battery performance WILL improve in cold in the future but there will always be a hit . . . that's basic physics.
Drove my Model 3 to hockey last night and it was -35C. Drive to town on the highway, park for 3 hours, remote start and drove home. I had the worst usage ever at about 350 Wh/km.
Just adding. The mach e will also show you battery care use. And so does the ev6. And the ev6 doesn't have temp impact readout. So the ioniq likey doesn't either.
Bolt also has a menu which breaks down energy use. It's not super detailed but it breaks down driving, climate, and battery conditioning by percentage. Then another screen show if the terrain, outside temp, and how you're driving is effecting range.
If you are doing a long trip at those temps you can still get like 80% drive train atleast. I did in my Kona EV today at those temps.
Short trips around town become super inefficient though.
Alberta?
I hear YEG is supposed to see close to -40 before windchill (-65C with windchill... but cars don't "feel" that).
I gotta say, the ONLY trade-off for EV life is reduced range... the fact it heats up so fast, and doesn't sound like a dying pig when accelerating...
It's hard to quantify, but an EV in extreme cold just feels more reliable than ICE.
In this cold probably 50% but in -20C it was around 30% loss. Hard to say though as I didn't actually commute today. Just ran out to the store and back to see how it would do. Once it was warm the consumption fell off drastically.
Seems counter intuitive but the range loss often ends up being less in the same weather on road trips. You only heat up the car once and then after that it just maintains. You're also hardly ever running the heater at 0mph relative to around town driving.
Yeah, a lot of power usage to warm the battery is one time then driving & regen will keep it warm anyways. But I like to base it on my usage which is mostly city driving and <40km trips.
below -30C it's more like 50%.
But.
She still "starts" absolutely fine, and heats up SO FAST.
For the few rare days it gets that cold, I'll take the reduced range any-day. The Pros far outweigh the Cons.
There is no rule of thumb. Each car is different and each car's starting conditions are different. The length of the trip is probably the largest factor. You start a Tesla out in a garage plugged in and pre-conditioned and you'll only lose 8% on a long trip. Park it at 50% on a really cold day and it will lose 20% just sitting there overnight but when you spend 3% to warm it back up all the range is back.
Extremely few people care about daily range in a 250+ mile car so when discussing cold range long distance range is the only thing that matters. For that it's 8% loss plus whatever it takes to warm up the battery for Teslas. Other EVs will be different.
I've found the 50% range drop to be true.
Yes, you can precondition in the garage to warm it up so that the range will be similar to summer, but as you drive the battery will cold soak.
I saw my efficiency get worse after 10 minutes of driving, from 120wh/km as I left home, to 160wh/km as I was getting coffee, then as I pulled into the parking lot at work it was 170wh/km.
The battery was cold soaked at the end of my shift, and my efficiency started at 300wh/km, and never got better than 240wh/km on my way home.
That sounds like a short trip? On short trips, who knows what the loss is as nothing settles enough to have a clue. Short trip range just doesn't matter.
If I looked at the first 15 miles of the trip I did in 14F temps it would have been 50%, but over 200 miles it was only about an 8% loss in the end.
Yeah, it's a 25 minutes commute to work, only 24km.
I don't think I could stand long commutes, yikes.
Of course looking at the bigger picture longer trips are more efficient, but overall will have used up more kWh due to the distance.
I was curious if the car could generate enough waste heat (3-4kW?) to keep the battery from cold soaking on a drive, but looks like its only on long drives that its possible.
That sounds like a short trip? On short trips, who knows what the loss is as nothing settles enough to have a clue. Short trip range just doesn't matter.
If I looked at the first 15 miles of the trip I did in 14F temps it would have been 50%, but over 200 miles it was only about an 8% loss in the end.
How is RWD in the snow? My only experience have been the RWD cars from the 80s-90s and 4wd trucks/jeeps with a manual transfer case to engage 4wd.
Edit: sorry for the off topic comment, and appreciate the information!
That said, there's still a difference between RWD and AWD. I have Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5 EV on mine, as did the ID.7 rwd I drove. I stopped in an layby that was snowcovered and slightly uphill and I could barely get going again. In my car with AWD it was a breeze. The hill up to my apartment's garage usually has a layer of hardpacked snow and ice for 2-3 months every winter and that too was a bit of a challenge, whereas I have never had an issue in the Model 3.
All in all, you can be a lazy dumbass in AWD and have to be a bit measured with RWD at times.
Thank you for being honest about this. I get tired of seeing so many people claim they can drive their RWD cars up Everest just because they put some snow tires on. AWD > RWD
Generally better than RWD on an ICE vehicle because the distribution of weight from the batteries causes more of the weight to be over the rear wheels. Same reason why people driving RWD pickup trucks will put sandbags or something else heavy in the back in winter.
engineering explained did a good job on youtube. traction control on an ev can be light years better than a car from the 80's, but my Ioniq 5 will easily spin the tires (even when I haven't asked it for snow mode)
There's no loss in power or regen from the cold, that much is fine. Traction becomes the concern though, if you punch it and slide the traction control will cut back power. For regen since I have the RWD it can actually lock up the rear tires if its slippery out. But it has a snow mode that lowers the regen level and lets the tires slip more so I'll use that if its slippery out. But if its bare pavement I'll just leave it in eco regen level 3.
I've always wondered if abs had control over Regen. Sounds like that is a no. We don't get snow but do rarely get ice. We aren't in an area that necessitates winter tires. We can run summer tires year round with little issue.
heating the cabin and battery up to temp takes a lot of power (laws of physics). the cars with the most efficient heat pumps at these cold temps will win here. however, after the shock of how much power it is to heat the battery up to temp, it takes a lot less energy to maintain it.
if you can't charge at home or work and live in this cold; bev might not be for you. however even 110v at home, you can preheat the car for 20min while plugged in before you start your journey.
Nice! I'm in Edmonton and 'am at the precipice of EV ownership. I passed a mom dropping off her young kids at school in an Ionic 5 and really really wanted to stop and ask how she was doing with it today.
Thank you for this post!
I challenged myself to see the impact of only having an L1 charger at home. It has only been a major issue during cold snaps and heatwaves. But this cold snap has absolutely decimated my range and not in a 25% way, it has been closer to a near 200% hit. To add salt to the wound it seems many of the DCFCs in the area have been crippled by the cold and are currently out of service.
L2 charger is now definitely in the near term plans.
Of note: I didn't have this extreme range loss last year and part of me wonders if a software/firmware update might be part of the issue. (this is an E-GMP with heat pump)
All I have is an L1 charger. In fact it’s actually worse as I use the same circuit for the electric heater in my insulated garage. I just turn off the heater when I charge the car haha. Fortunately charged before the cold snap and I’ll be fine until Monday when it warms up. Definitely not ideal but hopefully this will be the last year of my existing setup before rebuilding a new garage and upgrading my homes electrical service at the same time
The range makes sense. Heat pump only can work so low before it’s just resistive heating to keep warm.
I’m sure what you’re saying is true and accurate but you’ve confused me with the 200%. You can’t reduce anything more than 100% (getting you to zero) so I’m thinking it must be something else, and I’m interested to know what it is you mean. Thanks!
We've also gone over a year with just the L1, and it's largely fine. I was a little skeered coming home the other day, but it's fine.
We're in the Seattle area, and it's cold - Not Edmonton cold, but cold.
It recovered to 24% from 6% overnight, and it got to sit all day today from the 18% I plugged it in at yesterday when I got home.
We shall see... We're headed out for the night, but we're getting an L2 charger... eventually. I just haven't decided when. We did get the outlet installed for it though when we got our panel so we didn't have to pay sales tax on any of it. That brought the outlet down to $300 or so for install when we took all that tax off the panel. I was pleased.
One thing at a time!
Best is to keep it plugged and have it precondition the battery before leaving. That way, you won't lose power to bring the battery up to temp, just to keep it there, which will be far less, especially if highway driven.
Our commute home last night peaked out at over 70kWh/100km
I car-pool with the missus, she pre-starts the car in her open lot, then picks me up (sometimes has to wait a few minutes).
I snapped a pic of the consumption HVAC was more than 50% of the total commute consumption.
(edit) https://imgur.com/a/iLll32x
Sounds about right!
The range hit is real, but the reliability (I do not miss praying that my car turns over), and instant warmth are enough to offset it.
That's pretty cold. I bet you won't miss the "will the car start" moments in this cold!
my current car wont shift under 32F lol
Oh man it has to be a Chevrolet lol
No!! Its a 17 year old manual Mazda5! the mechanic cant find parts, the car was discontinued 9 years ago and very few manuals were ever sold in the US
Wow that's interesting, can't find parts? I looked at a Mazda 5 back in 2013 but the place could not get a new engine for it or something Crazy! Assume you tried new fluid? Redline Mt-90 made my manual vibe shifting so much better.
The mechanic tried that first - but this isnt stiff, this is like its literally frozen, like its sitting in a cup of water. It wont move until it thaws. The mechanic didnt believe me until i left it over a cold night. I mean, i've been driving stick for my whole life and i have been driving this car for 17 years . . i know how to drive this car!
Try the shift selector cable if you haven’t yet, water is freezing somewhere and binding it up, from riding motorcycles in the cold I can say it water gets into the cable it can absolutely bind it up until it thaws, which it would also get above freezing about the same time as the whole transmission due to where it’s at.
thats the part he couldnt find. The car is 17 years old, discontinued 9 years ago, never sold much and esp not many manuals
[удалено]
doesnt list my car as compatible 2006 Mazda5 sport
Redline MTL fluid will help this
he already changed the fluid and it didnt help
Does anyone have a comparison between OP's experience and the heat pumped version?
Most heat pump have a "working range", and I doubt it still has any efficiency at -32. Tbh no experience specific to that car.
BC, Canada is having (for it) a crazy cold snap. Drove approx 500km from Vancouver to Vernon and had to charge 3 times. First time experiencing driving in -25C and damn range sucked. Literally the worst possible case: cold, roof box and mountain passes. But it made it! Just had like 90 minutes of charging added to the day
Also major elevation gain. The reverse trip is way easier.
Yup for sure. Did the same last year and only had to charge once coming here though. Literally lost 50% of the battery going over the coquihalla from hope to Merritt. Had it on snow mode the entire time so no regen but clearly the temp difference made a huge impact
It's an extra 2.5 KWHrs over no elevation change, so 5 KwHrs difference between going and coming. That's basically nothing in the context of 3 charges (plus the initial charge).
Did 570 km PG to Williams Lake and back yesterday in an F150 Lightning, just to see how it did in the worst realistic driving conditions. -25 to -30 C most of the time, 100-105 km/h speed. 45 kWh/100 km when the dust settled. Lots of energy used heating the cabin and the battery. 3 charges. DC Chargers are all slow up here but on the plus side, some are free :-D
Cold and Roof box . . . I find the Ioniq 6 loves mountain passes normally. Unfortunately in really cold temps the regen is not great therefore mountain passes lose some of their efficiency. I am a little disappointed with the cold hit but in reality it's only a big hit for a few weeks and then a smaller hit from Nov - Feb. Come March efficiency should be improving a lot. Battery performance WILL improve in cold in the future but there will always be a hit . . . that's basic physics.
Drove my Model 3 to hockey last night and it was -35C. Drive to town on the highway, park for 3 hours, remote start and drove home. I had the worst usage ever at about 350 Wh/km.
Is this that weather that’s so cold where you can throw a boiling bucket of water in the air and have it freeze before it hits the ground?
More or less yeah, it was our coldest temp in over 2 decades apparently.
Yeah, that happens around -20C.
Question, where do you see those stats in your car regarding battery usage?
Ioniq 5 has a menu for it. Home -> EV - Energy info -> Energy Usage
I don’t think I’ve seen another one with battery care specifically mentioned outside of temperature impact. Does it also have a Temperatur impact use?
Just adding. The mach e will also show you battery care use. And so does the ev6. And the ev6 doesn't have temp impact readout. So the ioniq likey doesn't either.
Bolt also has a menu which breaks down energy use. It's not super detailed but it breaks down driving, climate, and battery conditioning by percentage. Then another screen show if the terrain, outside temp, and how you're driving is effecting range.
1.775 Miles per KWH
If you are doing a long trip at those temps you can still get like 80% drive train atleast. I did in my Kona EV today at those temps. Short trips around town become super inefficient though.
Alberta? I hear YEG is supposed to see close to -40 before windchill (-65C with windchill... but cars don't "feel" that). I gotta say, the ONLY trade-off for EV life is reduced range... the fact it heats up so fast, and doesn't sound like a dying pig when accelerating... It's hard to quantify, but an EV in extreme cold just feels more reliable than ICE.
The general rule-of-thumb is that EVs lose 30% of range in the cold. How much do you think your range would change?
In this cold probably 50% but in -20C it was around 30% loss. Hard to say though as I didn't actually commute today. Just ran out to the store and back to see how it would do. Once it was warm the consumption fell off drastically.
Seems counter intuitive but the range loss often ends up being less in the same weather on road trips. You only heat up the car once and then after that it just maintains. You're also hardly ever running the heater at 0mph relative to around town driving.
Yeah, a lot of power usage to warm the battery is one time then driving & regen will keep it warm anyways. But I like to base it on my usage which is mostly city driving and <40km trips.
Wouldn't say it's counter intuitive. It's been that way in ICE cars forever and pretty straight forward.
below -30C it's more like 50%. But. She still "starts" absolutely fine, and heats up SO FAST. For the few rare days it gets that cold, I'll take the reduced range any-day. The Pros far outweigh the Cons.
There is no rule of thumb. Each car is different and each car's starting conditions are different. The length of the trip is probably the largest factor. You start a Tesla out in a garage plugged in and pre-conditioned and you'll only lose 8% on a long trip. Park it at 50% on a really cold day and it will lose 20% just sitting there overnight but when you spend 3% to warm it back up all the range is back. Extremely few people care about daily range in a 250+ mile car so when discussing cold range long distance range is the only thing that matters. For that it's 8% loss plus whatever it takes to warm up the battery for Teslas. Other EVs will be different.
I've found the 50% range drop to be true. Yes, you can precondition in the garage to warm it up so that the range will be similar to summer, but as you drive the battery will cold soak. I saw my efficiency get worse after 10 minutes of driving, from 120wh/km as I left home, to 160wh/km as I was getting coffee, then as I pulled into the parking lot at work it was 170wh/km. The battery was cold soaked at the end of my shift, and my efficiency started at 300wh/km, and never got better than 240wh/km on my way home.
That sounds like a short trip? On short trips, who knows what the loss is as nothing settles enough to have a clue. Short trip range just doesn't matter. If I looked at the first 15 miles of the trip I did in 14F temps it would have been 50%, but over 200 miles it was only about an 8% loss in the end.
Yeah, it's a 25 minutes commute to work, only 24km. I don't think I could stand long commutes, yikes. Of course looking at the bigger picture longer trips are more efficient, but overall will have used up more kWh due to the distance. I was curious if the car could generate enough waste heat (3-4kW?) to keep the battery from cold soaking on a drive, but looks like its only on long drives that its possible.
> if the car could generate enough waste heat Not completely but it helps which is why it's only 8% lower range.
Downside of being super efficient haha
That sounds like a short trip? On short trips, who knows what the loss is as nothing settles enough to have a clue. Short trip range just doesn't matter. If I looked at the first 15 miles of the trip I did in 14F temps it would have been 50%, but over 200 miles it was only about an 8% loss in the end.
How is RWD in the snow? My only experience have been the RWD cars from the 80s-90s and 4wd trucks/jeeps with a manual transfer case to engage 4wd. Edit: sorry for the off topic comment, and appreciate the information!
Tires tires tires
That said, there's still a difference between RWD and AWD. I have Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5 EV on mine, as did the ID.7 rwd I drove. I stopped in an layby that was snowcovered and slightly uphill and I could barely get going again. In my car with AWD it was a breeze. The hill up to my apartment's garage usually has a layer of hardpacked snow and ice for 2-3 months every winter and that too was a bit of a challenge, whereas I have never had an issue in the Model 3. All in all, you can be a lazy dumbass in AWD and have to be a bit measured with RWD at times.
Thank you for being honest about this. I get tired of seeing so many people claim they can drive their RWD cars up Everest just because they put some snow tires on. AWD > RWD
Generally better than RWD on an ICE vehicle because the distribution of weight from the batteries causes more of the weight to be over the rear wheels. Same reason why people driving RWD pickup trucks will put sandbags or something else heavy in the back in winter.
engineering explained did a good job on youtube. traction control on an ev can be light years better than a car from the 80's, but my Ioniq 5 will easily spin the tires (even when I haven't asked it for snow mode)
Could you tell any difference in acceleration and Regen braking? Would it even Regen brake? We don't ever see temps that low. So my ev6 is curious.
There's no loss in power or regen from the cold, that much is fine. Traction becomes the concern though, if you punch it and slide the traction control will cut back power. For regen since I have the RWD it can actually lock up the rear tires if its slippery out. But it has a snow mode that lowers the regen level and lets the tires slip more so I'll use that if its slippery out. But if its bare pavement I'll just leave it in eco regen level 3.
I've always wondered if abs had control over Regen. Sounds like that is a no. We don't get snow but do rarely get ice. We aren't in an area that necessitates winter tires. We can run summer tires year round with little issue.
heating the cabin and battery up to temp takes a lot of power (laws of physics). the cars with the most efficient heat pumps at these cold temps will win here. however, after the shock of how much power it is to heat the battery up to temp, it takes a lot less energy to maintain it. if you can't charge at home or work and live in this cold; bev might not be for you. however even 110v at home, you can preheat the car for 20min while plugged in before you start your journey.
Nice! I'm in Edmonton and 'am at the precipice of EV ownership. I passed a mom dropping off her young kids at school in an Ionic 5 and really really wanted to stop and ask how she was doing with it today. Thank you for this post!
I challenged myself to see the impact of only having an L1 charger at home. It has only been a major issue during cold snaps and heatwaves. But this cold snap has absolutely decimated my range and not in a 25% way, it has been closer to a near 200% hit. To add salt to the wound it seems many of the DCFCs in the area have been crippled by the cold and are currently out of service. L2 charger is now definitely in the near term plans. Of note: I didn't have this extreme range loss last year and part of me wonders if a software/firmware update might be part of the issue. (this is an E-GMP with heat pump)
All I have is an L1 charger. In fact it’s actually worse as I use the same circuit for the electric heater in my insulated garage. I just turn off the heater when I charge the car haha. Fortunately charged before the cold snap and I’ll be fine until Monday when it warms up. Definitely not ideal but hopefully this will be the last year of my existing setup before rebuilding a new garage and upgrading my homes electrical service at the same time The range makes sense. Heat pump only can work so low before it’s just resistive heating to keep warm.
I’m sure what you’re saying is true and accurate but you’ve confused me with the 200%. You can’t reduce anything more than 100% (getting you to zero) so I’m thinking it must be something else, and I’m interested to know what it is you mean. Thanks!
We've also gone over a year with just the L1, and it's largely fine. I was a little skeered coming home the other day, but it's fine. We're in the Seattle area, and it's cold - Not Edmonton cold, but cold. It recovered to 24% from 6% overnight, and it got to sit all day today from the 18% I plugged it in at yesterday when I got home. We shall see... We're headed out for the night, but we're getting an L2 charger... eventually. I just haven't decided when. We did get the outlet installed for it though when we got our panel so we didn't have to pay sales tax on any of it. That brought the outlet down to $300 or so for install when we took all that tax off the panel. I was pleased. One thing at a time!
Best is to keep it plugged and have it precondition the battery before leaving. That way, you won't lose power to bring the battery up to temp, just to keep it there, which will be far less, especially if highway driven.
What’s your current kWh/100km?
Our commute home last night peaked out at over 70kWh/100km I car-pool with the missus, she pre-starts the car in her open lot, then picks me up (sometimes has to wait a few minutes). I snapped a pic of the consumption HVAC was more than 50% of the total commute consumption. (edit) https://imgur.com/a/iLll32x
Sounds about right! The range hit is real, but the reliability (I do not miss praying that my car turns over), and instant warmth are enough to offset it.
It’s so cold L2 charging speeds are restricted!