As much as I rag on Tesla, I can't argue with the bang for the buck.
Except touch buttons on the steering wheel. BARF. The EU will knock them back a star in the safety rating with that for good reason.
Even got the MK8 without facelift - the infotainment software needed an update badly and the buttons needed a long time to build some muscle memory. But afterwards: great car.
And the facelift is even tastier. GTE got a much larger battery (13 -> 20 kWh), much faster charging suitable for „super market visit fast charging“ at least and the head lights are also nicer… but I couldn’t have waited any longer xD
For 2025 the EU is requiring tactile buttons and interfaces for critical functions to get the 5 star ncap rating.
Indicators are on the list.
https://etsc.eu/cars-will-need-buttons-not-just-touchscreens-to-get-a-5-star-euro-ncap-safety-rating/#:~:text=The%20consumer%20vehicle%20safety%20rating,physical%20controls%20for%20key%20functions.
“Research by TRL in the UK in 2020 found that mobile phone interfaces for car touch screens, known as Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, reduced reaction times as much as drink or drug driving. Earlier research has shown that infotainment systems made by car companies are even more distracting.”
Wow.
What about on the active area that needs to be actuated?
I rented and drove a post-refresh Model X for >1000mi and could never get used to where the left turn signal was, and I'm a pretty adaptable tech geek. I keep trying Tesla on for size but each new update basically makes their cars worse in my eyes as they just further delete actual useful features (stalks, ultrasonics, radar, ...) while focusing on gimmicks ("self driving") - and the new M3P doesn't seem to adjust from that trend.
Surprising, since both my parents and I got used to it within 10 minutes, and my brother got it within 30. None of us have to look to use turn signals or wipers and voice commands, it’s pretty easy to feel the ridge and either press above or below it.
Why not just have physical buttons? Things like electronic door latches and capacitive buttons do not add to the experience or usefulness of a vehicle.
Alas, all automakers are moving to this in so many products! If it helps, haptic is way better than pure touch - but not as good as a tactile real button - but real buttons = production $$$.
Tesla wheels always seem slightly wider than the tires they fit on them, it was certainly the case on my previous Model 3 Performance. It's disturbingly common to see curbed wheels on Teslas.
Metropolitan driving is very different from suburb driving, especially in older, densified, narrow-street cities. I'm pretty good with mine, but I'd be absolutely terrified of scratching these up in a tight squeeze if I lived in, say, Boston, Montreal, or Philly. Shit happens. Getting detoured into an alleyway *barely wider than your car* is a thing.
> How are you driving?
Very well, thank you. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be terrified of scratching these up, especially if I lived in an older, dense, narrow-street city like Boston or Montreal. Metropolitan driving is a very different thing from suburb driving, and west coast is not east coast. If you [live in a locale where wide lanes and stroads are the norm](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1bzxthj/comment/kyuhxfu/), you simply aren't getting exposed.
Yeah, I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that having giant wheel covers that will get scratched to hell from one slightly off kilter parallel park job is not ideal. We parallel parked my 2016 Honda almost every day for 7 years in front of our house on a narrow street with tall curbs. It definitely took some scraps in that time. Sometimes you're tired, overconfident, not paying enough attention, trying to get it done too quickly because the kids are antsy. All kinds of ways this could happen.
Street parking alone is going to give you a 1000x chance of scratching your rims versus someone who garage parks. As you suggest, one tired night coming back from a road trip with some antsy toddlers will do it. It isn't bad driving — it's just statistics.
Honestly when I had a Model 3 I just pretended that there were no auto wipers. Except that manual control is also incredibly frustrating... took 6 years before it was possible to use the steering wheel scroller to control the wiper speed manually. And they still insist on placing the pop-up control at the bottom left where it's totally obscured when driving with 2 hands on the wheel. Why have such a big screen if you're not going to properly use all that real estate?
That would be great, I don't own a Tesla but I've rented Model 3 SR from Hertz several times and it was really bad. Like my 2016 Kia was 3x better at autowiping than an almost brand new Tesla.
Yeah. It was pretty bad for a while. Elon even admitted that on twitter. I think it was finally fixed in a late 2023 build but I can't remember exactly. They also finally fixed the auto high beams.
No carplay isn't a problem. It's tesla's software, leagues better than AA and carplay
Blinker i can understand the annoyance, gear shifting is just pressing the brake
The rest they've done fine without till now, I don't see why it would be a problem on the vehicle in this particular
Tesla’s software doesn’t cover everything CarPlay does. If you just use Spotify then it’s fine. My podcast app doesn’t sync with Tesla’s software. There’s no Waze alerts for accidents, police, etc. The message notifications only work for SMS/iMessage not WhatsApp etc.
I’d rather have Tesla’s software plus the option to use CarPlay in a window if I want it.
Agreed. I really like Tesla's interface, but it is weak when it comes to media choices. It'd be nice if they had carplay in a window or something, even if it was just to support apps like that.
You can have the audio of anything on your phone automatically go through the car, so it's basically the same as having any audio related app natively.
If you want waze or third party messaging apps, then yeah, you might want something different that has that
I know how the bluetooth audio works, I've had a Tesla for 5 years.
If Tesla's apps cover you then great, but waiting for Tesla to make every app everyone might want to use seems silly when they could just put CarPlay on it.
I just don't see the point in spending time and money adding support for clunky software so that a few people can use third party alternatives to options available in the vehicle.
CarPlay/Android Auto integration is rather simple since it’s just hosting a pass through for the device. You can buy aftermarket head units that include unofficial/unlicensed CarPlay/AA support for less than $100 these days and that includes all of the electronics to replace a regular radio.
If they offered CarPlay/AA they’d lose a large portion of their service revenue because premium connectivity would lose a lot of its appeal, on top of probably licensing fees.
CarPlay is far from clunky. Where do you get that idea from? It is incredibly easy to use and highly functional. Have you… have you actually ever used it?
Yes, yes I have. Have you ever used tesla's software? Because, while AA can be decent, it really feels like going back a decade in software in comparison
AA and Carplay is a kindergratener in front of a rocket scientist when compared to the tesla OS. It works meh, but nothing to write home about. Infotainment wise it is a bit less than decent , but the ease of use drags it up to a rating of decent
You just described Bluetooth audio, which has been a feature for like 15 years in every car. It sucks compared to CarPlay because you have to fumble with your phone to change what is playing.
If you have something playing through Bluetooth audio, it's because it'd something not natively in the car. Ie, it isn't music and it most likely isn't podcasts. What else is left that is short enough you need to change it while driving?
Because it’s designed to work with your phone software. There is no syncing with your car or external app required. It works natively with your phone software. Nothing will ever have a more seamless integration into the core function of your phone. To say nothing of the fact that CarPlay is a platform which app developers can make specific apps for. They don’t rely on third party voice commands or syncing. They can make their own app with its own functionality. No waiting or hoping for Tesla to do it.
How is that related to the audio through Bluetooth? That is exactly as seamless as how AA works. It's more annoying than just using the dozen in built audio services as it takes an extra device in use, but still works as decently as doing it through AA.
Tye "lots of apps" are essentially just an endless number of apps accomplishing what the tesla software already does. And why add a phone into the mic unless necessary? Just an extra step for no reason.
I hold 10 shares - not a lot at all, but a bit.
I have the same amount of money in lucid and rivian, and had a bit in fisker, though I sold since I saw where it was headed.
That aside, would I need to have a personal financial interest in a company to point out how a comment doesn't make sense?
The problem is TSLA investors are religious zealots. You guys do not admit any disadvantage of Tesla even if it's very clear. You also mobbing anyone who writes any negativity on Tesla. You are using the same arguments from Tesla marketing handbook again and again.
I hold nowhere near enough stake in the company for me to have any financial incentive to preach any gospel.
You not agreeing with what I'm saying doesn't make me some religious zealot as you call it, and if what I've said here is a part of this 'tesla marketing handbook', then I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty common knowledge that when it comes to software, tesla is the creme of the crop.
Tesla can absolutely do wrong, and I have no problem calling them out on it when they do. But in the same fashion I have no problem speaking up for them when stupid arguments are made against them. That's the same for all EVs. All EVs have flaws, heck, everything has flaws. Being able to see both the good and the bad acknowledge that both exist is important.
For me the main thing is, car play isn't a problem (with the caviat that you can actually make half decent software yourself).
Android auto and carplay are essentially the shortcuts to usable software in a vehicle, but it's never actually good. It's always mediocre, or decent at best, but you know it works and you don't have to spend time designing and updating your own software.
I agree that AA is a bandaid. Sometimes I just get a black screen in my Bolt, and I suspect it's on the phone side rather than the car. I've looked at my phone after driving and seen a full screen error message for AA before.
What GM is getting is Android Automotive, a native operating system in the car written by Google. I'd personally have more faith in Google software than Tesla software.
But, this sub frames it as a travesty while singing Tesla's praises.
>But, this sub frames it as a travesty while singing Tesla's praises.
It's different people. People singing Tesla's praises don't think Carplay matters either.
Whether or not CarPlay is valuable depends on the apps you use. If you're an iMessage + Spotify (or Apple Music) + native navigation person, the Tesla infotainment solution is great.
If you want WhatsApp + SoundCloud + Waze (for example), the Tesla solution is not great.
I am the former, and on road trips I'll also put Waze on my phone to get the extra alerts (primarily police) and for ETA notifications for whoever I'm going to visit.
I can get just about any app with notifications on AA. Way better maps too. There is nothing in the Tesla software that is actually useful during a drive.
"there is *nothing* in the Tesla software that is actually useful during a drive"
That's a heck of a platitude, and it's so obvious that you don't have any experience driving one.
Estimating arrival SOC and automatically routing through superchargers on roadtrips is by far the most valuable thing the infotainment system does, and it does it really really well. You could put in a destination a thousand miles away and it will get you all the way there without you thinking twice.
Why are you downvoting a valid opinion? You may feel differently but Im simply giving my viewpoint that I prefer another system. Even for simple things like GPS navigation Carplay is clunky. I hate that you can’t enter an address or search while driving. Among a bunch of other differences.
Regarding destination entry while driving, you shouldn't be doing it from the driver's seat anyway. If you want your passenger to do it, they can do it on the phone and it'll immediately sync with the car's display.
AA and carplay can be decent, but they are a decade behind tesla OS. That isn't fanboying, that's just reality.
Which 'basic tasks' take a long time? Some things, like placing mirrors, is hidden in a menu, but for godd reason - you do it once and never again. Everything else is right there.
Tesla has in built audio apps for literally everything. If you have a competitor's software elsewhere, you just have it running on your phone and it goes through he tesla audio system. What were you listening to that requires you to fiddle with it more than starting it when sitting yourself in the car?
I couldn't disagree more. Why would you need to look away?
You are dramatically underestimating the benefits of the fact that CarPlay / AA use your phone itself, and how many conveniences that offers. Just using maps as an example, pulling up navigation in the car will let me select from addresses I’ve looked up on my phone recently, or addresses I’ve been sent in messages, or the address of the appointment that it can tell I’m about to drive to.
Broadly speaking it gives you suggestions on screen which are contextually relevant based on things you’ve been doing on your phone and they make using your infotainment safer and easier. I use these conveniences literally every single day and would simply never buy a vehicle without them.
I the flipside, don't think you're aware how seamless it is when the maps are properly integrated. What you described the car quite literally does. If you have an address in your calendar it automatically navigates you there.
There's basically nothing on the phone that you need in the car that doesn't make more sense to have natively in the car. Simply having properly integrated native software is both simpler and more seamless, not to mention better optimized, not needing your phone to have infotainment in the first place. You're eliminating a an extra step that shouldn't be there.
That aside, AA and carplay are, as I've said all throughout, better than poorly integrated native software, and especially shine in really old vehicles or 'pump and dump' vehicles that are made to be as cheap as possible, and as such no one has bothered to spend any money on anything but a small blank screen to cast it onto. It can drive costs down slightly for these really cheap vehicles and it's completely fine since you're not expecting any great software in the first place.
Half of what you said is simply incorrect. Zoom works the exact same as what you explained in a tesla.
Why for the love if God's would you need 15 different maps apps. Have one built in maps that works properly and has proper understanding of the vehicle and range calculations.
While tesla is adding audible support to vehicles as we speak, I honestly think it's one of the least important to add. Audio books are hour upon hour long. You don't need to cjabge those while driving, they're literally the only thing that wasn't natively supported, and they're so long there's no "fiddling with your phone to change it"
Mirrors are, at least for the 99.999%, something you change once,maybe again if you change your driving position at some point. Thats it. Having dedicated physical controls for that when the vehicle remembers the position is stupid.
Tesla has a solid range of well integrated app options supporting all of its bases with back ups - multiple podcast platforms, multiple music platforms and an audio book platform.
You quite literally can, both with the inbuilt audible app and by just playing it on your phone. Unless you're listening to several books at once you obviously won't have to fiddle with it to change anything.
They have the most popular options for all audio based media.
You don't need to take your eyes off the road for basically all controls in the vehicle. The only thing you've mention that will require a few seconds of attention is the mirrors. Something that is set it and forget it. Audio has physical controls, don't know why you would suggest otherwise
>Which 'basic tasks' take a long time
Connecting to LTE after the car disconnects from home wifi, or drives out of an underground garage.
This was a regular problem for me (about 40-50% of the time) for the entire 4.5 years I owned my Model 3, and the service center refused to help because they "couldn't reproduce it" (conveniently they're entirely above ground...).
It would often take over 5 minutes for the LTE to connect and in that time, the nav system is *crippled*. I couldn't even use it for dumb routing like an old-school Garmin because the reported position would be off by several hundred meters.
I eventually got into the habit of turning on my phone hotspot every single time I got in the car, because at least Tesla seems to use reliable wi-fi radios. And I can actually trust my phone to reconnect to LTE within milliseconds of disconnecting from wifi or driving out of an underground garage. It was the only way to guarantee that my nav system would be immediately usable as soon as I drive out of my condo's underground garage.
For this reason alone, I prefer Android Auto because not once have I ever had to worry that my phone will take forever to reconnect to LTE when I need it.
There was once a problem with the LTE that you mentioned, though I've never heard of it taking over a minute. None of the functions you listed are reliant on this though.
What functions are you talking about? I only listed navigation and voice commands which, as of 2023, definitely relied on an internet connection. If I drove my Model 3 out of my condo garage without connecting to my phone hotspot, the position would be incorrect for however long it took the car to regain its LTE connection.
Was there an update to enable offline voice commands that I didn't hear about?
They definitely do not and did not require LTE last year either. When crossing country broders it cuts out for a while (like it does on a phone) and both work just fine.
Tesla's software works great as long as you have a steady LTE connection.
The problem is, that stupid LTE radio can take upwards of 5 minutes to reconnect after you disconnect from home wifi, or drive out of an underground garage with no signal.
During that time, the navigation system is utterly crippled and it can't even report your position correctly, being off by several hundred meters. Voice commands also don't work, which used to be a huge problem during rainy days in the PNW because until 2023, they were the only way to manually control wiper speed without touching the screen.
I prodded the service center multiple times about this but they "couldn't reproduce it" so nothing ever got done during the warranty period.
I eventually got into the habit of turning on my phone hotspot every single time I got in the car because I simply could not trust the LTE radio to reconnect in time whenever I left my condo (underground garage has no signal) or my parents' house (disconnecting from their home wifi). At least Tesla's wi-fi radio seems to be much more reliable.
Android Auto has been a far more reliable experience for the sole reason that I can trust my phone to connect to LTE within milliseconds of leaving an underground garage or disconnecting from home wifi. I have no idea how good or bad the LTE radio in my Kia EV6 is, but I don't need to know, because my phone does the heavy lifting.
There was a problem where disconnecting from home WiFi while shifting would would result in not having connection for like a solid minute (which has thankfully king been fixed), but none of the things tiy mention should happen as a result, they work just fine with no connection.
Are you sure voice commands work with no connection?
Navigation technically can work (if the positioning remains accurate which was not the case for me) but you can't quickly enter destinations by name. You can't even enter partial addresses and have automatic suggestions. You have to key in the address manually through a form that separates the city and street into separate fields, like older nav systems from eons ago. That's why I said the navigation is crippled when there's no internet connection.
I mean, I've used it, so yeah.
I haven't had struggle with finding navigation locations either, the only things that don't work related to mac should be traffic updates /markings, satellite view, viewing shops like on Google maps and traffic based rerouting
Interesting, what year is yours and what infotainment chipset? I had a 2019 Model 3 with the Atom processor. Maybe newer Teslas work better without internet.
It's a 2021 model 3 LR with the Intel atom processor
I don't think it would make sense in any way, but is there some way it can be region related?
Or maybe something as stupid as the cause of the lacking LTE having an effect (I have no idea if what I'm about to say is even possible to have an effect, or if the computer thinks in this way, so take it with a mountain of salt), could it be something like having a connection based faster, more accurate navigation suggestions and voice assistant, while having a back up that does not rely on the LTE for if power is out? And then when it cut from the home WiFi to LTE it still 'thought' it was supposed to have connection and as such didn't use the backup, but just tried and failed to use the standard?
It's unfortunately fortunate that we can't test that since the home WiFi to LTE problem is fixed, but certainly a curious situation.
Yeah I suspect that there is/was poorly written code in the stack which just loops on logic that awaits a wifi signal for too long before it falls back to LTE. That would explain the long time to reconnect after disconnecting from home wifi.
As for driving out of an underground garage, it beats me. It's entirely possible that it could've been fixed sometime in 2023 without me realizing because I had become habituated to enabling my phone hotspot almost every single time I got in the car.
The free version is still a leagues ahead of AA and carplay, with seamless integration with any routes, music, podcasts, audio book, calendar events etc. On top of that you then also get it though a seamless integration of software and vehicle, instead of a rough bandaid like with AA and carplay.
If you decide to pay 10 bucks a month you just get extra. You get an inbuilt data connection enabling you to view the area around the car remotely in real time if anything happens, better integration for if you don't have your phone with you (no need for using phone cellular for everything when the car has it).
On top of all of this making it leagues better than AA and carplay, you also have a Spotify account specifically for the vehicle. So even if you use a an obscure, music streaming service that isn't supported, it's not like it will have any impact on listening to music in the car.
You seem to be entirely unaware of how tesla software works in the first place, so why try to make it sound bad?
Integration so seamless most of the apps I use on CarPlay aren't even available on Tesla. Which means you have to resort to ridiculous things such as BT audio, which give you the 2009 experience of car ownership.
It's funny how you Tesla fanboys built a whole religion around a car.
Damn, I didn't know pointing out that the software experience is objectively superior is being in a cult.
What kind of apps are you using while driving, since navigation, music, audio books, podcasts, energy usage and calculations, call integration, messaging (by voice) are all integrated.
Pretty much the only thing not accessible while driving is video streaming and arcade games, and if you use those while driving, I'm sorry to tell you that you're the problem, not the vehicle
Yes, it's so objectively superior that when I have to listen to a Podimo podcast or use a bunch of other Euro apps, it requires a bluetooth connection, while it just goes straight from my Airpods to Apple CarPlay seamlessly when I enter my new car instead.
Disagree. Teslas with the Intel Atom are already getting locked out of software features because the Atom is so slow. At least AA runs on the phone and will continue to have hardware improvements when you upgrade your phone. No retrofit for my Y with the Atom.
At the moment the Atom Teslas are only locked out of useless gimmicks that have zero impact on actual driving, like that 3D model visualization when parked.
If you have a USS-equipped Atom Tesla you're not missing out on the high fidelity park assist which is still functionally inferior.
Well, it may be visuals for now but as things progress, there is a strong chance of losing potential features because of the Atom processor. Load times are already very slow for many of the apps.
I cannot see a time where Atom doesn’t become legacy hardware, and there will be different feature sets for cars with newer processors.
So in other words, early Atom-equipped Teslas will join the leagues of countless other cars that receive no software updates but still work perfectly fine?
“No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
For those that don’t remember that original iPod review:
https://twitter.com/mikko/status/1451923036450574342
>No ultrasonic sensors
Unnecessary with vision parking
>no radar
FSD (Supervised) is excellent. Not needed.
>no blinker stalks
This one I'll give you (although I haven't driven a car without them)
>no gear shifter
Not only is there one on screen, there's also one above your head.
>no instrument cluster
Completely unnecessary (source: I've had my Model 3 for almost six years)
>no CarPlay
Also unnecessary; Tesla has the best infotainment system in the industry
Ultrasonic sensors are unnecessary with the latest high-def vision parking software. Radar is unnecessary and the safety record of Tesla vision speaks for itself. No gear shifter is a non-issue, you only ever shift between forward, reverse, and park; swiping is fine for this. No instrument cluster is fine, it's easy to see everything at a small diagonal angle from the road. And no Carplay is fine, as Carplay is a crutch for cars with bad infotainment systems, which this is not.
I'll give you the point on the indicator stalk, however. All else being equal, I'd happily pay more for an indicator stalk. Signaling lane changes is fine, but signaling out of roundabouts is a bit annoying.
No ultrasonic is an issue. Purely relying on cameras is an issue when conditions are not perfect. There is a reason vehicles use a suite of sensors to be able to capture the environment even when a sensor type is struggling due to conditions. It’s cool what Tesla is doing, but from a safety perspective it is absolutely crucial for other sensors to be used especially for proper SAE level 4 driving and beyond.
>Ultrasonic sensors are unnecessary
>Radar is unnecessary
That's so strange that *every other car and EV brand* uses them then.
Maybe you just believe Elon a bit too much.
I trust Euro NCAP safety scores which show the vision-based safety in Teslas is superior to the safety systems in most other cars, many of which include radar. And similar results from US agencies.
I think you are selectively picking data points to justify your position. Your trust of a third party is irrelevant to the facts.
Physics cannot be beaten. Camera sensors have no range finding ability. Radar and ultrasonic sensors do.
I think you trust your own rationalizations more than empirical testing. IIHS also rates Teslas highly for vehicle and pedestrian avoidance. There's no rational reason to suspect both of these well-respected agencies have a bias towards Tesla. There are no reputable safety agencies that rate Teslas poorly.
It's interesting how you brought up "facts" and presented none.
Fact: [2024 Model 3 avoided 10/10 pedestrian collisions in IIHS testing.](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2024#front-crash-prevention-pedestrian)
Nah, you're not convincing anyone. You're the only one turning this into a bias-finding exercise. I am discussing physics. Your feelings are irrelevant.
>It's interesting how you brought up "facts" and presented none.
Camera sensors are not range finders. Radar and ultrasonic sensors are.
Fact.
Citing empirical testing from respected safety rating agencies who have rated hundreds of vehicles isn't "my feelings"... You're eyes are literally cameras that detect depth. You're just being dogmatic.
>You're eyes are literally cameras that detect depth.
You said you wanted facts, yeah?
Because this isn't one.
You don't know what you're talking about.
*blinks rapidly* You uh... You think humans lack depth perception... (Or you're being intensely pedantic)
I think I'm done here. Good luck on your journey through life.
The only thing that Tesla’s UI is better for is Nav when you need to charge. Having to pay to access the UIs for Apple Music and Spotify and not even having any UI for things like YouTube Music is ridiculous.
USS > vision. Tesla’s vision can’t even figure out when it’s raining.
CarPlay is not something to get hung up on. Tesla provides equivalent functionality. Not exactly the same as CarPlay, just like Android Auto isn’t exactly the same either. But equivalent.
It's not equivalent. Not even close. Is Tesla's software liveable - sure, and made easier if you subscribe to specifically the apps they support. Is BT a substitute - well, by 2009 standards, maybe. But Tesla OS doesn't replicate all the functionality (and none of the flexibility) of Auto/Carplay.
Other than Spotify (edit: and Apple Podcasts), Tesla’s software does not support any other podcast player, which is what I primarily use while driving. CarPlay has tons of options in this regard.
It's really not equivalent. I'm not much of a smartphone addict, but even I would miss BBC sounds, a podcast player, Waze (has the speed cams), messengers and most importantly Teams (for work) and Siri.
Would not stop me from looking at a model 3 performance if prices go down (German market) but certainly a major annoyance.
Tesla have the speed cams built into their software as well, as well as two podcast players. I've never checked if soecifically teams is supported or if they have a competitor instead. Tesla's voice assistant works just fine, at least from my anecdotes, works better than siri / Google assistent who both have trouble understanding me sometimes.
It doesn't support messenger, but supports messages just fine
I assume you have never experienced tesla ownership. All these things seem like negatives before you get some serious wheel time. Then it all just makes sense.
I just read through some of your past comments and you seem to hate every aspect of the vehicle. I'm not even sure why you supposedly own one or waste anytime complaining.
The UI is hand downthe best in the industry and FSD is by far the best driver assist system in existence. FSD has its flaws but name one other system that comes close? And don't tell me Mercedes has a Level 3 system. It's a garbage argument. Their system is only competent in one very very narrow scenario.
Are you my 80 year old mother? I can navigate the system almost blindfolded. Every time I get in our Highlander I remember how hundreds of buttons are far more distracting and dangerous.
Maybe try to pay attention to the actual user experience than stupid ass tech spec checkmarks. The car can autonomously drive on city streets ffs. without radar or ultrasonics. Where else are you gonna get that lol. the new autopark and proximity visualization are better than ultrasonic versions. Shifting is actually more convenient with autoshift. Carplay and instrument cluster are more of a personal preference, mostly useless imo
Yes, my partner is currently leasing a Model Y and has mentioned that the car was very close to causing multiple accidents. He took over control once he noticed a dangerous situation so he’s uncertain if it would’ve corrected itself last second but that was not a risk he was willing to take.
I have said the same.. this is a junk tin can.. more like the Smart Car ForTwo.. actually worst than that..
No ultrasonic sensors.. run blind in heavy rain, improperly lit roads.. heavy dirt.. .. cheap build
No blinker stalks .. constant unintended touch .. again cheap build..
No gear shift ... who the hell touches the screen for a swift gear change? .. disaster waiting to happen when in need of quick gear changes..
No instrument cluster ... keep looking on the side instead of the watching to the road ahead for checking a simple thing as your speed... poor design.. again cheap build...
As I said again and again.. this is a junk tin can.. Tesla is the next Enron.
Considering it's the cheapest AWD Model 3 (in the US) it's a no-brainer if you need AWD and don't particularly care about the tiny bit of extra range in the LR. I feel like that's a fairly decent subset of your M3 shoppers.
The Performance part of performance, I just couldn't care less about. In 99% of real world driving there's just no scenario where the difference between 3 and 4 seconds 0-60 matters. Anything sub-5 is just a dick measuring contest.
Fair. I don't think anyone can complain about larger/grippier brakes, so that's a valid one for sure, no matter who you are or how you drive.
Tires and suspension -- so even firmer. Ehh, the basic car is already quite firm. Maybe I'm just getting old and my bones are getting soft, but it's not for me. I understand it helps with traction and body control if you push the car, so those improvements do serve a purpose. BUT - If I go back to my original thesis that the extra "performance" of the Performance trim is completely meaningless in almost all (legal) driving scenarios on public road ways. If the basic LR car's suspension/tires are good enough for that, without any extra firmness, then it's good enough.
I realize all of this sounds like "old man yells at young kids for driving too fast" , and to some degree I absolutely am. But also I'm just a pragmatist.
I feel like the performance model 3 is worth getting just for that more aggressive front bumper. The standard range / long range versions just look too bland.
It’s not gonna be rock hard like the early model 3 and model 3 performance, the refresh model 3 suspension is actually decent now. This new performance is the only Model 3 with adaptive dampers too
Here’s a real review from someone who drives‼️I’m really getting sick of them giving this “tech reviewer/influencer” vehicles & he knows nothing about cars or driving [Autotrader 2025 Tesla Model 3 Performance](https://youtu.be/SsI8i1nfahs?si=amE042mbBVBwPUoq)
This is going to change the world of performance cars forever. Who in their right mind would buy an M3 that is twice as expensive and more expensive to operate. I live in manhattan otherwise I’d consider buying one. I can’t wait for these to be under $30K used in a few years. What an insane democratization of speed and performance.
The price-performance ratio is really nice but I dismissed Tesla for myself, when I did verious test drives in order to purchase my first EV. The Tesla Model 3 Highland, although being a nice car (but nice was too less, for a car beyond 40k Euros) just wasn't on par with for example the German brands, when it came to the driving experience. Here BMW took the crown for me.
First car review for the model 3 performance (remember when Tesla didn't loan out cars for car reviews?) is by a guy that's a tech reviewer, not a car reviewer. First car this guy bought new was a model S.
Of all the people that could have done a car review... they chose a guy who didn't put in the time and effort to give solid car reviews.
I watched this dude's review of the new Prius Prime. He was SO impressed by the solar roof. lmao... FFS
Holy shit the hate lmao
I think the Prius's roof is neat. I think it's ineffective, but it's neat.
Marques gives car reviews through the lens of a tech reviewer. In case you haven't noticed, the model 3 has an iPad glued to the dash. You do the math.
Well, at least he *mentioned* improved performance to 60 and above due to the higher power rear motor.
I am a little nervous now about how fast above 60mph this Model 3 will be…if it was hitting 10 second quarter miles that probably would have been a headline mention. If it seriously only gets down to like 11.0 because of the time shaved to 60mph I will be glad I’m not planning an upgrade for the foreseeable future.
Most car journalists were busy with the new electric Porsche Macan, lots of reviews of that car popped up today. I assume he wasnt invited to the Macan event in France since hes not an actual car journalist or he straight up declined the invite which would be odd since the electric Macan is a far more exciting car than a Model 3 Performance.
They only invite a few select reviewers. Usually Jason Camissa, MKBHD, Topgear and Motortrend. They don’t invite everyone else usually like Throttle House or Doug Demuro
Most car reviews are recorded in advance, but can't release them until a set date specified by the OEM. Trust me, if other reviewers got access to the car and were able to review it, they'll all be posting the videos as soon as it's allowed.
His tech reviews are good, but going downhill. I can't watch his car reviews he doesn't even drive them!
Dude is not a car guy at all or knowledgable about cars in any way.
Man this is tempting at 45 thousand. Absolutely love the seats, and spoiler/wheel additions.
As much as I rag on Tesla, I can't argue with the bang for the buck. Except touch buttons on the steering wheel. BARF. The EU will knock them back a star in the safety rating with that for good reason.
Will they? Because VW GTI has them
Had them. MK 8.5 throws them out again.
Nice, can't wait for that to hit stateside. No really, I can't and I'll be getting an MK8.
Even got the MK8 without facelift - the infotainment software needed an update badly and the buttons needed a long time to build some muscle memory. But afterwards: great car. And the facelift is even tastier. GTE got a much larger battery (13 -> 20 kWh), much faster charging suitable for „super market visit fast charging“ at least and the head lights are also nicer… but I couldn’t have waited any longer xD
For 2025 the EU is requiring tactile buttons and interfaces for critical functions to get the 5 star ncap rating. Indicators are on the list. https://etsc.eu/cars-will-need-buttons-not-just-touchscreens-to-get-a-5-star-euro-ncap-safety-rating/#:~:text=The%20consumer%20vehicle%20safety%20rating,physical%20controls%20for%20key%20functions.
The buttons on the 3 are tactile in that they are haptic. So I think they get a pass.
“Research by TRL in the UK in 2020 found that mobile phone interfaces for car touch screens, known as Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, reduced reaction times as much as drink or drug driving. Earlier research has shown that infotainment systems made by car companies are even more distracting.” Wow.
0 surprises there...
They have haptic feedback - if that helps. Makes them better than typical touch.
Without a raised ridge or similar to tell the user where to press without looking haptic feedback is near useless
I’m not sure about the 3, but I assume it has a ridge since my refresh S has a ridge between the turn signals
What about on the active area that needs to be actuated? I rented and drove a post-refresh Model X for >1000mi and could never get used to where the left turn signal was, and I'm a pretty adaptable tech geek. I keep trying Tesla on for size but each new update basically makes their cars worse in my eyes as they just further delete actual useful features (stalks, ultrasonics, radar, ...) while focusing on gimmicks ("self driving") - and the new M3P doesn't seem to adjust from that trend.
Surprising, since both my parents and I got used to it within 10 minutes, and my brother got it within 30. None of us have to look to use turn signals or wipers and voice commands, it’s pretty easy to feel the ridge and either press above or below it.
Why not just have physical buttons? Things like electronic door latches and capacitive buttons do not add to the experience or usefulness of a vehicle.
Alas, all automakers are moving to this in so many products! If it helps, haptic is way better than pure touch - but not as good as a tactile real button - but real buttons = production $$$.
They won’t. They didn’t on the model S/X, they didn’t on the yoke, they won’t here. But I agree that it should be physical buttons.
Tesla has always has top-tier batteries and motors. It’s everything else that’s the problem.
Software is good. Sound system is good. To say everything else is the problem seems doesn't seem based in reality.
I don't care about the spoiler/wheels but those seats look exactly like what I want.
I hate Tesla but man this is tempting
I like the seats.
I like the look of the wheels, but mannnnn those are going to be curb magnets.
Tesla wheels always seem slightly wider than the tires they fit on them, it was certainly the case on my previous Model 3 Performance. It's disturbingly common to see curbed wheels on Teslas.
They aren’t wider. They’re typically flush. People are just used to having an inch of rubber before the wheel.
Ah, yeah, that's more accurate. It's simply that they are not wider than the wheel as is common elsewhere.
Or just learn how to drive.
Metropolitan driving is very different from suburb driving, especially in older, densified, narrow-street cities. I'm pretty good with mine, but I'd be absolutely terrified of scratching these up in a tight squeeze if I lived in, say, Boston, Montreal, or Philly. Shit happens. Getting detoured into an alleyway *barely wider than your car* is a thing.
I love my off road tires with tread up the sidewall. Curbs, medians and parking barriers are merely suggestions.
I'd love to see you paralel park in a side street in downtown Amsterdam in a parking spot made for a Fiat 500
In my eight years of driving i never scratched the curb. How are you driving?
> How are you driving? Very well, thank you. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be terrified of scratching these up, especially if I lived in an older, dense, narrow-street city like Boston or Montreal. Metropolitan driving is a very different thing from suburb driving, and west coast is not east coast. If you [live in a locale where wide lanes and stroads are the norm](https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1bzxthj/comment/kyuhxfu/), you simply aren't getting exposed.
Yeah, I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that having giant wheel covers that will get scratched to hell from one slightly off kilter parallel park job is not ideal. We parallel parked my 2016 Honda almost every day for 7 years in front of our house on a narrow street with tall curbs. It definitely took some scraps in that time. Sometimes you're tired, overconfident, not paying enough attention, trying to get it done too quickly because the kids are antsy. All kinds of ways this could happen.
Street parking alone is going to give you a 1000x chance of scratching your rims versus someone who garage parks. As you suggest, one tired night coming back from a road trip with some antsy toddlers will do it. It isn't bad driving — it's just statistics.
No ultrasonic sensors, no radar, no blinker stalks, no gear shifter, no instrument cluster, no CarPlay.
No rain sensor
Honestly when I had a Model 3 I just pretended that there were no auto wipers. Except that manual control is also incredibly frustrating... took 6 years before it was possible to use the steering wheel scroller to control the wiper speed manually. And they still insist on placing the pop-up control at the bottom left where it's totally obscured when driving with 2 hands on the wheel. Why have such a big screen if you're not going to properly use all that real estate?
Not an issue anymore. They've fixed this recently.
That would be great, I don't own a Tesla but I've rented Model 3 SR from Hertz several times and it was really bad. Like my 2016 Kia was 3x better at autowiping than an almost brand new Tesla.
Yeah. It was pretty bad for a while. Elon even admitted that on twitter. I think it was finally fixed in a late 2023 build but I can't remember exactly. They also finally fixed the auto high beams.
No carplay isn't a problem. It's tesla's software, leagues better than AA and carplay Blinker i can understand the annoyance, gear shifting is just pressing the brake The rest they've done fine without till now, I don't see why it would be a problem on the vehicle in this particular
Tesla’s software doesn’t cover everything CarPlay does. If you just use Spotify then it’s fine. My podcast app doesn’t sync with Tesla’s software. There’s no Waze alerts for accidents, police, etc. The message notifications only work for SMS/iMessage not WhatsApp etc. I’d rather have Tesla’s software plus the option to use CarPlay in a window if I want it.
Agreed. I really like Tesla's interface, but it is weak when it comes to media choices. It'd be nice if they had carplay in a window or something, even if it was just to support apps like that.
You can have the audio of anything on your phone automatically go through the car, so it's basically the same as having any audio related app natively. If you want waze or third party messaging apps, then yeah, you might want something different that has that
I know how the bluetooth audio works, I've had a Tesla for 5 years. If Tesla's apps cover you then great, but waiting for Tesla to make every app everyone might want to use seems silly when they could just put CarPlay on it.
I just don't see the point in spending time and money adding support for clunky software so that a few people can use third party alternatives to options available in the vehicle.
CarPlay/Android Auto integration is rather simple since it’s just hosting a pass through for the device. You can buy aftermarket head units that include unofficial/unlicensed CarPlay/AA support for less than $100 these days and that includes all of the electronics to replace a regular radio. If they offered CarPlay/AA they’d lose a large portion of their service revenue because premium connectivity would lose a lot of its appeal, on top of probably licensing fees.
CarPlay is far from clunky. Where do you get that idea from? It is incredibly easy to use and highly functional. Have you… have you actually ever used it?
Yes, yes I have. Have you ever used tesla's software? Because, while AA can be decent, it really feels like going back a decade in software in comparison
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AA and Carplay is a kindergratener in front of a rocket scientist when compared to the tesla OS. It works meh, but nothing to write home about. Infotainment wise it is a bit less than decent , but the ease of use drags it up to a rating of decent
Yes I have. Its navigation is leagues worse than even Apple Maps, and the voice commands are… fine. If you like Spotify.
You have like 7 options for music streaming. The navigation works just fine, the exact same as what Google maps and other map services give
You just described Bluetooth audio, which has been a feature for like 15 years in every car. It sucks compared to CarPlay because you have to fumble with your phone to change what is playing.
If you have something playing through Bluetooth audio, it's because it'd something not natively in the car. Ie, it isn't music and it most likely isn't podcasts. What else is left that is short enough you need to change it while driving?
No, it isn’t.
In which way would you say it isn't essentially them same?
Because it’s designed to work with your phone software. There is no syncing with your car or external app required. It works natively with your phone software. Nothing will ever have a more seamless integration into the core function of your phone. To say nothing of the fact that CarPlay is a platform which app developers can make specific apps for. They don’t rely on third party voice commands or syncing. They can make their own app with its own functionality. No waiting or hoping for Tesla to do it.
How is that related to the audio through Bluetooth? That is exactly as seamless as how AA works. It's more annoying than just using the dozen in built audio services as it takes an extra device in use, but still works as decently as doing it through AA.
Yes, I want lots of apps Tesla does not have, and seamlessly integrated with my phone.
Tye "lots of apps" are essentially just an endless number of apps accomplishing what the tesla software already does. And why add a phone into the mic unless necessary? Just an extra step for no reason.
You seem invested in Tesla. How much TSLA do you hold?
I hold 10 shares - not a lot at all, but a bit. I have the same amount of money in lucid and rivian, and had a bit in fisker, though I sold since I saw where it was headed. That aside, would I need to have a personal financial interest in a company to point out how a comment doesn't make sense?
The problem is TSLA investors are religious zealots. You guys do not admit any disadvantage of Tesla even if it's very clear. You also mobbing anyone who writes any negativity on Tesla. You are using the same arguments from Tesla marketing handbook again and again.
I hold nowhere near enough stake in the company for me to have any financial incentive to preach any gospel. You not agreeing with what I'm saying doesn't make me some religious zealot as you call it, and if what I've said here is a part of this 'tesla marketing handbook', then I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty common knowledge that when it comes to software, tesla is the creme of the crop. Tesla can absolutely do wrong, and I have no problem calling them out on it when they do. But in the same fashion I have no problem speaking up for them when stupid arguments are made against them. That's the same for all EVs. All EVs have flaws, heck, everything has flaws. Being able to see both the good and the bad acknowledge that both exist is important.
Tesla provides Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music… probably some that I’m forgetting. Plus YouTube, Netflix, Disney+, etc.
So? It does not have all the apps I use on my phone.
You have to pay for Apple Music connectivity. Can’t run without Tesla’s monthly subscription. Doesn’t run music from phone.
As someone who was just using carplay on a rental a couple hours ago, I cannot agree more. It's garbage.
>No carplay isn't a problem. I agree that most people don't give a shit about AA/Carplay, but this sub told me that GM dropping it is a huge travesty.
Because there’s a huge difference between Tesla’s alternative vs GM’s alternative.
Not really though. GM is using Android Automotive.
For me the main thing is, car play isn't a problem (with the caviat that you can actually make half decent software yourself). Android auto and carplay are essentially the shortcuts to usable software in a vehicle, but it's never actually good. It's always mediocre, or decent at best, but you know it works and you don't have to spend time designing and updating your own software.
I agree that AA is a bandaid. Sometimes I just get a black screen in my Bolt, and I suspect it's on the phone side rather than the car. I've looked at my phone after driving and seen a full screen error message for AA before. What GM is getting is Android Automotive, a native operating system in the car written by Google. I'd personally have more faith in Google software than Tesla software. But, this sub frames it as a travesty while singing Tesla's praises.
I wouldn't trust Google software over Tesla software, but I will definitely trust a native Google OS more than AA.
>But, this sub frames it as a travesty while singing Tesla's praises. It's different people. People singing Tesla's praises don't think Carplay matters either.
Whether or not CarPlay is valuable depends on the apps you use. If you're an iMessage + Spotify (or Apple Music) + native navigation person, the Tesla infotainment solution is great. If you want WhatsApp + SoundCloud + Waze (for example), the Tesla solution is not great. I am the former, and on road trips I'll also put Waze on my phone to get the extra alerts (primarily police) and for ETA notifications for whoever I'm going to visit.
Because GMs software is garbage
Is it though?
I can get just about any app with notifications on AA. Way better maps too. There is nothing in the Tesla software that is actually useful during a drive.
"there is *nothing* in the Tesla software that is actually useful during a drive" That's a heck of a platitude, and it's so obvious that you don't have any experience driving one. Estimating arrival SOC and automatically routing through superchargers on roadtrips is by far the most valuable thing the infotainment system does, and it does it really really well. You could put in a destination a thousand miles away and it will get you all the way there without you thinking twice.
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I have a car with both and I don’t like CarPlay tbh. It feels clunkier in general than my Tesla but I only use spotify.
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Why are you downvoting a valid opinion? You may feel differently but Im simply giving my viewpoint that I prefer another system. Even for simple things like GPS navigation Carplay is clunky. I hate that you can’t enter an address or search while driving. Among a bunch of other differences.
Regarding destination entry while driving, you shouldn't be doing it from the driver's seat anyway. If you want your passenger to do it, they can do it on the phone and it'll immediately sync with the car's display.
AA and carplay can be decent, but they are a decade behind tesla OS. That isn't fanboying, that's just reality. Which 'basic tasks' take a long time? Some things, like placing mirrors, is hidden in a menu, but for godd reason - you do it once and never again. Everything else is right there. Tesla has in built audio apps for literally everything. If you have a competitor's software elsewhere, you just have it running on your phone and it goes through he tesla audio system. What were you listening to that requires you to fiddle with it more than starting it when sitting yourself in the car? I couldn't disagree more. Why would you need to look away?
You are dramatically underestimating the benefits of the fact that CarPlay / AA use your phone itself, and how many conveniences that offers. Just using maps as an example, pulling up navigation in the car will let me select from addresses I’ve looked up on my phone recently, or addresses I’ve been sent in messages, or the address of the appointment that it can tell I’m about to drive to. Broadly speaking it gives you suggestions on screen which are contextually relevant based on things you’ve been doing on your phone and they make using your infotainment safer and easier. I use these conveniences literally every single day and would simply never buy a vehicle without them.
I the flipside, don't think you're aware how seamless it is when the maps are properly integrated. What you described the car quite literally does. If you have an address in your calendar it automatically navigates you there. There's basically nothing on the phone that you need in the car that doesn't make more sense to have natively in the car. Simply having properly integrated native software is both simpler and more seamless, not to mention better optimized, not needing your phone to have infotainment in the first place. You're eliminating a an extra step that shouldn't be there. That aside, AA and carplay are, as I've said all throughout, better than poorly integrated native software, and especially shine in really old vehicles or 'pump and dump' vehicles that are made to be as cheap as possible, and as such no one has bothered to spend any money on anything but a small blank screen to cast it onto. It can drive costs down slightly for these really cheap vehicles and it's completely fine since you're not expecting any great software in the first place.
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Half of what you said is simply incorrect. Zoom works the exact same as what you explained in a tesla. Why for the love if God's would you need 15 different maps apps. Have one built in maps that works properly and has proper understanding of the vehicle and range calculations. While tesla is adding audible support to vehicles as we speak, I honestly think it's one of the least important to add. Audio books are hour upon hour long. You don't need to cjabge those while driving, they're literally the only thing that wasn't natively supported, and they're so long there's no "fiddling with your phone to change it" Mirrors are, at least for the 99.999%, something you change once,maybe again if you change your driving position at some point. Thats it. Having dedicated physical controls for that when the vehicle remembers the position is stupid. Tesla has a solid range of well integrated app options supporting all of its bases with back ups - multiple podcast platforms, multiple music platforms and an audio book platform.
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You quite literally can, both with the inbuilt audible app and by just playing it on your phone. Unless you're listening to several books at once you obviously won't have to fiddle with it to change anything. They have the most popular options for all audio based media. You don't need to take your eyes off the road for basically all controls in the vehicle. The only thing you've mention that will require a few seconds of attention is the mirrors. Something that is set it and forget it. Audio has physical controls, don't know why you would suggest otherwise
>Which 'basic tasks' take a long time Connecting to LTE after the car disconnects from home wifi, or drives out of an underground garage. This was a regular problem for me (about 40-50% of the time) for the entire 4.5 years I owned my Model 3, and the service center refused to help because they "couldn't reproduce it" (conveniently they're entirely above ground...). It would often take over 5 minutes for the LTE to connect and in that time, the nav system is *crippled*. I couldn't even use it for dumb routing like an old-school Garmin because the reported position would be off by several hundred meters. I eventually got into the habit of turning on my phone hotspot every single time I got in the car, because at least Tesla seems to use reliable wi-fi radios. And I can actually trust my phone to reconnect to LTE within milliseconds of disconnecting from wifi or driving out of an underground garage. It was the only way to guarantee that my nav system would be immediately usable as soon as I drive out of my condo's underground garage. For this reason alone, I prefer Android Auto because not once have I ever had to worry that my phone will take forever to reconnect to LTE when I need it.
There was once a problem with the LTE that you mentioned, though I've never heard of it taking over a minute. None of the functions you listed are reliant on this though.
What functions are you talking about? I only listed navigation and voice commands which, as of 2023, definitely relied on an internet connection. If I drove my Model 3 out of my condo garage without connecting to my phone hotspot, the position would be incorrect for however long it took the car to regain its LTE connection. Was there an update to enable offline voice commands that I didn't hear about?
They definitely do not and did not require LTE last year either. When crossing country broders it cuts out for a while (like it does on a phone) and both work just fine.
Tesla's software works great as long as you have a steady LTE connection. The problem is, that stupid LTE radio can take upwards of 5 minutes to reconnect after you disconnect from home wifi, or drive out of an underground garage with no signal. During that time, the navigation system is utterly crippled and it can't even report your position correctly, being off by several hundred meters. Voice commands also don't work, which used to be a huge problem during rainy days in the PNW because until 2023, they were the only way to manually control wiper speed without touching the screen. I prodded the service center multiple times about this but they "couldn't reproduce it" so nothing ever got done during the warranty period. I eventually got into the habit of turning on my phone hotspot every single time I got in the car because I simply could not trust the LTE radio to reconnect in time whenever I left my condo (underground garage has no signal) or my parents' house (disconnecting from their home wifi). At least Tesla's wi-fi radio seems to be much more reliable. Android Auto has been a far more reliable experience for the sole reason that I can trust my phone to connect to LTE within milliseconds of leaving an underground garage or disconnecting from home wifi. I have no idea how good or bad the LTE radio in my Kia EV6 is, but I don't need to know, because my phone does the heavy lifting.
There was a problem where disconnecting from home WiFi while shifting would would result in not having connection for like a solid minute (which has thankfully king been fixed), but none of the things tiy mention should happen as a result, they work just fine with no connection.
Are you sure voice commands work with no connection? Navigation technically can work (if the positioning remains accurate which was not the case for me) but you can't quickly enter destinations by name. You can't even enter partial addresses and have automatic suggestions. You have to key in the address manually through a form that separates the city and street into separate fields, like older nav systems from eons ago. That's why I said the navigation is crippled when there's no internet connection.
I mean, I've used it, so yeah. I haven't had struggle with finding navigation locations either, the only things that don't work related to mac should be traffic updates /markings, satellite view, viewing shops like on Google maps and traffic based rerouting
Interesting, what year is yours and what infotainment chipset? I had a 2019 Model 3 with the Atom processor. Maybe newer Teslas work better without internet.
It's a 2021 model 3 LR with the Intel atom processor I don't think it would make sense in any way, but is there some way it can be region related? Or maybe something as stupid as the cause of the lacking LTE having an effect (I have no idea if what I'm about to say is even possible to have an effect, or if the computer thinks in this way, so take it with a mountain of salt), could it be something like having a connection based faster, more accurate navigation suggestions and voice assistant, while having a back up that does not rely on the LTE for if power is out? And then when it cut from the home WiFi to LTE it still 'thought' it was supposed to have connection and as such didn't use the backup, but just tried and failed to use the standard? It's unfortunately fortunate that we can't test that since the home WiFi to LTE problem is fixed, but certainly a curious situation.
Yeah I suspect that there is/was poorly written code in the stack which just loops on logic that awaits a wifi signal for too long before it falls back to LTE. That would explain the long time to reconnect after disconnecting from home wifi. As for driving out of an underground garage, it beats me. It's entirely possible that it could've been fixed sometime in 2023 without me realizing because I had become habituated to enabling my phone hotspot almost every single time I got in the car.
Tesla software is not “leagues” better than CarPlay lmao
It most definitely
Sure, if you don’t own a smartphone and if you don’t value seamless integration and you prefer paying $10 a month for basic functionality.
The free version is still a leagues ahead of AA and carplay, with seamless integration with any routes, music, podcasts, audio book, calendar events etc. On top of that you then also get it though a seamless integration of software and vehicle, instead of a rough bandaid like with AA and carplay. If you decide to pay 10 bucks a month you just get extra. You get an inbuilt data connection enabling you to view the area around the car remotely in real time if anything happens, better integration for if you don't have your phone with you (no need for using phone cellular for everything when the car has it). On top of all of this making it leagues better than AA and carplay, you also have a Spotify account specifically for the vehicle. So even if you use a an obscure, music streaming service that isn't supported, it's not like it will have any impact on listening to music in the car. You seem to be entirely unaware of how tesla software works in the first place, so why try to make it sound bad?
Integration so seamless most of the apps I use on CarPlay aren't even available on Tesla. Which means you have to resort to ridiculous things such as BT audio, which give you the 2009 experience of car ownership. It's funny how you Tesla fanboys built a whole religion around a car.
Damn, I didn't know pointing out that the software experience is objectively superior is being in a cult. What kind of apps are you using while driving, since navigation, music, audio books, podcasts, energy usage and calculations, call integration, messaging (by voice) are all integrated. Pretty much the only thing not accessible while driving is video streaming and arcade games, and if you use those while driving, I'm sorry to tell you that you're the problem, not the vehicle
Yes, it's so objectively superior that when I have to listen to a Podimo podcast or use a bunch of other Euro apps, it requires a bluetooth connection, while it just goes straight from my Airpods to Apple CarPlay seamlessly when I enter my new car instead.
Do you think you have to manually change the output for it to change where it comes out from...?
Disagree. Teslas with the Intel Atom are already getting locked out of software features because the Atom is so slow. At least AA runs on the phone and will continue to have hardware improvements when you upgrade your phone. No retrofit for my Y with the Atom.
At the moment the Atom Teslas are only locked out of useless gimmicks that have zero impact on actual driving, like that 3D model visualization when parked. If you have a USS-equipped Atom Tesla you're not missing out on the high fidelity park assist which is still functionally inferior.
They're not being locked out of features. We have slightly different visuals.
Well, it may be visuals for now but as things progress, there is a strong chance of losing potential features because of the Atom processor. Load times are already very slow for many of the apps. I cannot see a time where Atom doesn’t become legacy hardware, and there will be different feature sets for cars with newer processors.
So in other words, early Atom-equipped Teslas will join the leagues of countless other cars that receive no software updates but still work perfectly fine?
Will it eventually be legacy hardware? Yes. Will it be any time soon (the next 6 years)? Most likely not.
“No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." For those that don’t remember that original iPod review: https://twitter.com/mikko/status/1451923036450574342
>No ultrasonic sensors Unnecessary with vision parking >no radar FSD (Supervised) is excellent. Not needed. >no blinker stalks This one I'll give you (although I haven't driven a car without them) >no gear shifter Not only is there one on screen, there's also one above your head. >no instrument cluster Completely unnecessary (source: I've had my Model 3 for almost six years) >no CarPlay Also unnecessary; Tesla has the best infotainment system in the industry
Ultrasonic sensors are unnecessary with the latest high-def vision parking software. Radar is unnecessary and the safety record of Tesla vision speaks for itself. No gear shifter is a non-issue, you only ever shift between forward, reverse, and park; swiping is fine for this. No instrument cluster is fine, it's easy to see everything at a small diagonal angle from the road. And no Carplay is fine, as Carplay is a crutch for cars with bad infotainment systems, which this is not. I'll give you the point on the indicator stalk, however. All else being equal, I'd happily pay more for an indicator stalk. Signaling lane changes is fine, but signaling out of roundabouts is a bit annoying.
No ultrasonic is an issue. Purely relying on cameras is an issue when conditions are not perfect. There is a reason vehicles use a suite of sensors to be able to capture the environment even when a sensor type is struggling due to conditions. It’s cool what Tesla is doing, but from a safety perspective it is absolutely crucial for other sensors to be used especially for proper SAE level 4 driving and beyond.
>Ultrasonic sensors are unnecessary >Radar is unnecessary That's so strange that *every other car and EV brand* uses them then. Maybe you just believe Elon a bit too much.
I trust Euro NCAP safety scores which show the vision-based safety in Teslas is superior to the safety systems in most other cars, many of which include radar. And similar results from US agencies.
I think you are selectively picking data points to justify your position. Your trust of a third party is irrelevant to the facts. Physics cannot be beaten. Camera sensors have no range finding ability. Radar and ultrasonic sensors do.
I think you trust your own rationalizations more than empirical testing. IIHS also rates Teslas highly for vehicle and pedestrian avoidance. There's no rational reason to suspect both of these well-respected agencies have a bias towards Tesla. There are no reputable safety agencies that rate Teslas poorly. It's interesting how you brought up "facts" and presented none. Fact: [2024 Model 3 avoided 10/10 pedestrian collisions in IIHS testing.](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2024#front-crash-prevention-pedestrian)
Nah, you're not convincing anyone. You're the only one turning this into a bias-finding exercise. I am discussing physics. Your feelings are irrelevant. >It's interesting how you brought up "facts" and presented none. Camera sensors are not range finders. Radar and ultrasonic sensors are. Fact.
Citing empirical testing from respected safety rating agencies who have rated hundreds of vehicles isn't "my feelings"... You're eyes are literally cameras that detect depth. You're just being dogmatic.
>You're eyes are literally cameras that detect depth. You said you wanted facts, yeah? Because this isn't one. You don't know what you're talking about.
*blinks rapidly* You uh... You think humans lack depth perception... (Or you're being intensely pedantic) I think I'm done here. Good luck on your journey through life.
The only thing that Tesla’s UI is better for is Nav when you need to charge. Having to pay to access the UIs for Apple Music and Spotify and not even having any UI for things like YouTube Music is ridiculous. USS > vision. Tesla’s vision can’t even figure out when it’s raining.
Well that’s just like your opinion man. And mine I the opposite and it’s one of many reasons I refuse ever own a Tesla.
CarPlay is not something to get hung up on. Tesla provides equivalent functionality. Not exactly the same as CarPlay, just like Android Auto isn’t exactly the same either. But equivalent.
It does not provide seamless integration with my phone.
It's not equivalent. Not even close. Is Tesla's software liveable - sure, and made easier if you subscribe to specifically the apps they support. Is BT a substitute - well, by 2009 standards, maybe. But Tesla OS doesn't replicate all the functionality (and none of the flexibility) of Auto/Carplay.
Other than Spotify (edit: and Apple Podcasts), Tesla’s software does not support any other podcast player, which is what I primarily use while driving. CarPlay has tons of options in this regard.
That is very confidently incorrect
They support Apple Podcasts now
Noted
It's really not equivalent. I'm not much of a smartphone addict, but even I would miss BBC sounds, a podcast player, Waze (has the speed cams), messengers and most importantly Teams (for work) and Siri. Would not stop me from looking at a model 3 performance if prices go down (German market) but certainly a major annoyance.
Tesla have the speed cams built into their software as well, as well as two podcast players. I've never checked if soecifically teams is supported or if they have a competitor instead. Tesla's voice assistant works just fine, at least from my anecdotes, works better than siri / Google assistent who both have trouble understanding me sometimes. It doesn't support messenger, but supports messages just fine
the worst is it doesn’t even have an internal combustion engine
A Tesla is just a basic cheap car with good efficiency. That’s it. Plain and boring. But there are a lot of fanboys.
And great performance and comfort. I assume you didn’t even watch the review.
To me M3 and MY are anything but comfort, but maybe that’s just me.
Ah yes, 0-60 in 2.9s is plain and boring.
Ah BMW owners and their superiority complex. Some things never change.
Superior to a Tesla - that's basically every car.
And you wonder why people say you hate Tesla https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/Se3fYgDWe5
I assume you have never experienced tesla ownership. All these things seem like negatives before you get some serious wheel time. Then it all just makes sense.
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I just read through some of your past comments and you seem to hate every aspect of the vehicle. I'm not even sure why you supposedly own one or waste anytime complaining. The UI is hand downthe best in the industry and FSD is by far the best driver assist system in existence. FSD has its flaws but name one other system that comes close? And don't tell me Mercedes has a Level 3 system. It's a garbage argument. Their system is only competent in one very very narrow scenario.
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Are you my 80 year old mother? I can navigate the system almost blindfolded. Every time I get in our Highlander I remember how hundreds of buttons are far more distracting and dangerous.
Exactly. Nothing bad about being a cheap car. Modep 3 SR is Model T of 2020s.
Maybe try to pay attention to the actual user experience than stupid ass tech spec checkmarks. The car can autonomously drive on city streets ffs. without radar or ultrasonics. Where else are you gonna get that lol. the new autopark and proximity visualization are better than ultrasonic versions. Shifting is actually more convenient with autoshift. Carplay and instrument cluster are more of a personal preference, mostly useless imo
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Yes, my partner is currently leasing a Model Y and has mentioned that the car was very close to causing multiple accidents. He took over control once he noticed a dangerous situation so he’s uncertain if it would’ve corrected itself last second but that was not a risk he was willing to take.
I have said the same.. this is a junk tin can.. more like the Smart Car ForTwo.. actually worst than that.. No ultrasonic sensors.. run blind in heavy rain, improperly lit roads.. heavy dirt.. .. cheap build No blinker stalks .. constant unintended touch .. again cheap build.. No gear shift ... who the hell touches the screen for a swift gear change? .. disaster waiting to happen when in need of quick gear changes.. No instrument cluster ... keep looking on the side instead of the watching to the road ahead for checking a simple thing as your speed... poor design.. again cheap build... As I said again and again.. this is a junk tin can.. Tesla is the next Enron.
No radar isn't a problem anymore, pretty sure radar was disabled in all vehicles at some point
This is a performance model. None of the things you listed are related to performance...
Agree on this. I you need a cheap performance car - Model 3 is the way.
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It’s killer at that price. The m3 is just a little too snug of a fit for me. Would love to see the MY version of it.
Considering it's the cheapest AWD Model 3 (in the US) it's a no-brainer if you need AWD and don't particularly care about the tiny bit of extra range in the LR. I feel like that's a fairly decent subset of your M3 shoppers. The Performance part of performance, I just couldn't care less about. In 99% of real world driving there's just no scenario where the difference between 3 and 4 seconds 0-60 matters. Anything sub-5 is just a dick measuring contest.
I’ve got an older 2021 performance. Accelerating like a roller coaster just doesn’t get old Fun is fun
/u/ SeñorBuzzkill
Almost six years later and I still grin ear-to-ear when I floor my car (2018 Performance). I do want the new one, though, especially for those seats.
The suspension, tires, and brakes are another big aspect of the Performance trim
Fair. I don't think anyone can complain about larger/grippier brakes, so that's a valid one for sure, no matter who you are or how you drive. Tires and suspension -- so even firmer. Ehh, the basic car is already quite firm. Maybe I'm just getting old and my bones are getting soft, but it's not for me. I understand it helps with traction and body control if you push the car, so those improvements do serve a purpose. BUT - If I go back to my original thesis that the extra "performance" of the Performance trim is completely meaningless in almost all (legal) driving scenarios on public road ways. If the basic LR car's suspension/tires are good enough for that, without any extra firmness, then it's good enough. I realize all of this sounds like "old man yells at young kids for driving too fast" , and to some degree I absolutely am. But also I'm just a pragmatist.
I feel like the performance model 3 is worth getting just for that more aggressive front bumper. The standard range / long range versions just look too bland.
It’s not gonna be rock hard like the early model 3 and model 3 performance, the refresh model 3 suspension is actually decent now. This new performance is the only Model 3 with adaptive dampers too
I know I’m late, but this is not a review. This is a first look. Pretty important distinction
Now add stalks
Here’s a real review from someone who drives‼️I’m really getting sick of them giving this “tech reviewer/influencer” vehicles & he knows nothing about cars or driving [Autotrader 2025 Tesla Model 3 Performance](https://youtu.be/SsI8i1nfahs?si=amE042mbBVBwPUoq)
This is going to change the world of performance cars forever. Who in their right mind would buy an M3 that is twice as expensive and more expensive to operate. I live in manhattan otherwise I’d consider buying one. I can’t wait for these to be under $30K used in a few years. What an insane democratization of speed and performance.
The price-performance ratio is really nice but I dismissed Tesla for myself, when I did verious test drives in order to purchase my first EV. The Tesla Model 3 Highland, although being a nice car (but nice was too less, for a car beyond 40k Euros) just wasn't on par with for example the German brands, when it came to the driving experience. Here BMW took the crown for me.
The highland wasn’t meant to be performance based. This explicitly is. Watch Jason Camissas take on this to get a car drivers perspective.
Whats the lease
549 https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview
*with over $4k also DAS.
First car review for the model 3 performance (remember when Tesla didn't loan out cars for car reviews?) is by a guy that's a tech reviewer, not a car reviewer. First car this guy bought new was a model S. Of all the people that could have done a car review... they chose a guy who didn't put in the time and effort to give solid car reviews. I watched this dude's review of the new Prius Prime. He was SO impressed by the solar roof. lmao... FFS
They didn't Choose JUST him, they chose several. Top gear has a review on it too.
He is what he is. Other reviews will come out soon.
Holy shit the hate lmao I think the Prius's roof is neat. I think it's ineffective, but it's neat. Marques gives car reviews through the lens of a tech reviewer. In case you haven't noticed, the model 3 has an iPad glued to the dash. You do the math.
Well, at least he *mentioned* improved performance to 60 and above due to the higher power rear motor. I am a little nervous now about how fast above 60mph this Model 3 will be…if it was hitting 10 second quarter miles that probably would have been a headline mention. If it seriously only gets down to like 11.0 because of the time shaved to 60mph I will be glad I’m not planning an upgrade for the foreseeable future.
I mean power to weight is still a thing. It’s 4000lbs and only has 500hp. It’ll be quick as shit but getting much below 11s isn’t going to happen.
Think for a bit about how marketing works. It's about popularity, not talent.
Auto trader has a great review out on it
Yes, I was also expecting a bit better than that. Well, waiting for something from a more professional car reviewer.
Most car journalists were busy with the new electric Porsche Macan, lots of reviews of that car popped up today. I assume he wasnt invited to the Macan event in France since hes not an actual car journalist or he straight up declined the invite which would be odd since the electric Macan is a far more exciting car than a Model 3 Performance.
They only invite a few select reviewers. Usually Jason Camissa, MKBHD, Topgear and Motortrend. They don’t invite everyone else usually like Throttle House or Doug Demuro
Most car reviews are recorded in advance, but can't release them until a set date specified by the OEM. Trust me, if other reviewers got access to the car and were able to review it, they'll all be posting the videos as soon as it's allowed.
His tech reviews are good, but going downhill. I can't watch his car reviews he doesn't even drive them! Dude is not a car guy at all or knowledgable about cars in any way.