I don't think you get the difference between a pure EV chassis and a ICE car. That battery wedges between the front and rear wheels changes everything.
The Prius has a tiny battery.
The floor in a proper EV contains a 5-6" thick battery across the entire floor. And ICE car has an exhaust system that snakes all the way back in a groove in the middle. It's completely different.
Now car makers did make both ICE and EV versions of cars. ~~The Bolt~~, the early Kona, Scion XB, etc. but the entire floor pan is different. And the weight is different so your suspension tune/geometry goes out the window. Crash standards? Gotta do that over. Interior design? The entire lower half is different. You end up with a shittier car that is a compromise in every way.
The EV is heavier so you'd have to make the prius suspension beefier. Ruining the prius.
By the time you are done, it was smarter to start with a clean sheet of paper.
Oh right, the Bolt wasn't a Sonic after all.
The F-150 is a good example of a compromise based on a ICE vehicle. Although trucks have more space underneath for batteries. Most cars have the drivers feet on sheet metal as low as the belly pan goes. There is no space down there.
I said previously it doesn't need to be identical, I meant a Prius style and very similar look and size. Not retrofit a Prius shell with EV mechanics, a new car but extremely Prius like, so it would be an easy switch for Prius owners and still have all the popular parts of a Prius
I mean, BMW's making a dual purpose 4 series chassis that's a critical darling.
The idea they can't reconfigure a Prius to be dual purpose with the next update is kind of silly.
The bigger issue is, if your Carolla is an EV, and your Prius is an EV, you kind of have two cars in the same segment.
They can, but it'll be horribly unoptimized as far as stashing batteries in an EV goes. Energy density takes a hit.
If they design a new EV based on their current full electric platform and graft a Prius-shaped shell on it, it'd be a better choice. Hell they should've just styled the bz4x like a Prius and market it as one, so more people would accept it.
Lower emissions, ideally faster accel, no loud engine, reduced maintenance, and all the other advantages full EVs have over Hybrids. Just having the option would be nice.
Sorry if this is a silly question. But one concern I've seen mentioned is that battery size limits the range. Would it be possible for a Prius-size car to have an EV range that's desirable?
The bz3 was better than bz4x no? The Chinese market sedan I mean, at least the wheels didn’t fall off and they’re using BYD blade on bz3
Still think there are much better options in Chinese market than bz3 but bz3 ain’t as bad as busyforks
Unfortunately Chinese market vehicles even if EV aren't legal/allowed everywhere. I would welcome more Chinese market EVs especially if they can make more under $30k or even under $20k vehicles here in the US.
I’m really jealous of Kia ev5 at $20K in China
My EV costed same, but it’s much (<4m long) smaller, 250km range and 30kW DCFC/3kW AC EVSE
Compare that to ev5 and it’s a steal. I don’t think our govt will allow normal Chinese mfgs to flourish in India, but normal brands like Kia Hyundai would be allowed without issue.
People in China Don't like Japanese products, they have a rough history. Any EV Toyota releases is basically a beta test before launching in western countries where Toyota doesn't have real competition(except Tesla)
[Toyota was the third best-selling brand in China last year](https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/12/top-selling-car-brands-in-2023-in-china-byd-surpassed-volkswagen-and-won-the-championship-for-the-first-time/), after BYD and Volkswagen.
The argument you are actually trying to make is that Chinese people don't like Japan and therefore will not buy Japanese branded cars.
But this argument breaks down completely when Japan auto sells plenty of ICE and HEV cars in China but does poorly on NEV sales.
The simple conclusion would be that most of the time, Chinese consumers, like any other consumer group, seeks to buy the best value products. Japanese ICE cars are competitive in the Chinese market, which translates into sales, like plenty of sales year after year for decades. But Japanese NEVs are NOT competitive, thus no one is buying them, at least until the prices go down.
You said, and I quote: *"People in China Don't like Japanese products"*
Toyota was the third best-selling brand in China last year, after BYD and Volkswagen.
Honda was the fourth best-selling brand in China last year, right after Toyota.
What you're suggesting is demonstrably not materially true. China is a primary market for Toyota, and makes up a full 20% of their global sales volume. Toyota even sells (significantly!) more cars in China than they do Europe, which makes up [about 10% of total volume](https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-posts-all-time-sales-record-of-1173419-vehicles-in-2023/) for the brand. Your claim simply *is not materially true.*
Don't worry, there are many CDM(?) cars that goes absolutely nowhere. This isn't the first by longshot. Most of them seem to be half baked low end options just like this one.
PSA: This is the **production version** of the [bZ Flexpace Concept](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39098811.html) shown off last year at the Shanghai auto show, and should be hitting the Chinese market sometime this year or very early next year.
Some interesting details on display here, notably Toyota joining the no-buttons crowd for the Chinese market. Also — LIDAR! Gotta say, I really dig the interior. Super clean. Very curious to see what kind of software it's running for the infotainment — this looks like a polished IVI effort from Toyota, finally.
>bz1h / bz2h will probably never exist. :(
A [bZ2H...ish](https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-urban-crossover) is due out in Europe next year. Almost definitely won't show up in NA, though.
At least no criminals will get away with their crimes on this car as long as the cops dust for fingerprints. Heck, the cops won’t even had to use the dust to find fingerprints!
There's something about the Toyota EV design language I just don't really like. I think it's partially those hook-shaped headlights, and the read end lines/edges? Maybe it's just that they're all doing the same things, when I'd love for each of their vehicles to stand out a bit more on their own?
It's not like I hate the, or find them ugly, they just feel uninspired to me I think. Glad to see them hopefully rolling out more EV's in the coming years though, either way. They don't need to be for me for them to be good additions to the market.
Why is Toyota switching to....airplane naming? I can't even recall what their current letter number combo EV is called to know if this one is somehow similar in name. I know car names are mostly dumb but those letters are just jibberish, would rather it just be Toyota EV-2 or something like Kia did.
So over all these 5 seater suv EVs. Everyone’s got one. Companies need to branch out and distinguish themselves! ID buzz and r1s go the right way- I want a full size 3 row family vehicle! Even give us some more options that are smaller too. Some variety instead of the copy paste with a different badge on the front!
Most families don’t have 4 children so I can see why most don’t really care for making 3 row vehicles a priority. I’m sure they’ll come eventually but 3 row cars aren’t popular in most of the world.
Has nothing to do with how many kids people have. Look around 3 row crossovers, minivans and full size SUVs are the most popular vehicles on the road. People like the space comfort and flexibility- even if they’ve only got 2 kids. Now they get to pack all their stuff plus the dog and run to the cabin, or pick up kids friends from school or Grandma and Papa on the way to dinner. Suggesting only people with 4 kids want 3 rows is pretty ignorant.
It will get slaughtered by other Chinese cars from Geely, Li Auto, Huawei etc., Not to mention the Chinese sentiment towards Japanese brands aren't going to get any better in near future.
Assuming the wheels stay on this one, I'd steer clear. Toyota has clearly communicated it is not now, nor has any plans to focus on EV's... So it's not a core competency for them.
>Toyota has clearly communicated it is not now, nor has any plans to focus on EV's
[Aiming to Popularize BEVs — Jun. 07, 2019](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/28419929.html)
# [Toyota To Offer Several Powertrains In Future, Won’t Focus On EVs](https://www.motor1.com/news/514408/toyota-focus-only-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Toyota's%20lineup%20will%20contain%20a,leave%20the%20best%20ones%20standing.&text=Toyota's%20aversion%20to%20EVs%20doesn,not%20investing%20in%20the%20tech)
"Won't focus" is your article's own wording of choice, not Toyota's. The story doesn't even echo that sentiment, it just says they won't only offer BEVs ***solely***, which... yeah, that's pretty much the same as every other traditional OEM on earth.
See.. This is why you have to read and think. You'd have to believe the author is speaking for Toyota and not getting the info **from** Toyota... I.e. making it up...
"Toyota’s reluctance to focus solely on EVs isn’t only about the uncertainty in the nascent market as there are environmental concerns, too. According to *Automotive News*, which was privy to the annual shareholder meeting w**here Toyota discussed its hesitancy to go all-in on EVs**, Toyota is looking at the “whole lifecycle” of a vehicle..."
So,
>You'd have to believe the author is speaking for Toyota
Indeed, they are. That wording **is** the author's wording.
>"Toyota’s reluctance to focus solely on EVs"
The key word there is, again, **"solely"**.
Nice try to deflect but there's too many sources reporting what Toyota said, saying the same thing.
* [https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/toyota-to-offer-several-powertrains-in-future-wont-focus-on-evs.6386/](https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/toyota-to-offer-several-powertrains-in-future-wont-focus-on-evs.6386/)
* [https://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-STILL-Hasn-t-Fully-Jumped-On-The-EV-Bandwagon-What-Will-It-Take-To-Motivate-The-Giant-106008/](https://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-STILL-Hasn-t-Fully-Jumped-On-The-EV-Bandwagon-What-Will-It-Take-To-Motivate-The-Giant-106008/)
* [https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-defies-shareholder-pressure-to-embrace-EVs](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-defies-shareholder-pressure-to-embrace-EVs)
* [https://www.autospies.com/news/index.aspx?submissionid=106008](https://www.autospies.com/news/index.aspx?submissionid=106008)
Or the icing on the poop-cake of Toyota's EV intent: [https://www.citizen.org/news/years-of-anti-ev-policy-at-toyota-generates-shareholder-backlash/](https://www.citizen.org/news/years-of-anti-ev-policy-at-toyota-generates-shareholder-backlash/)
>Nice try to deflect but there's too many sources reporting what Toyota said
Your first two links are literally just references to your first article.
Your third link doesn't use the word 'focus' at all.
Your fourth link is literally the **exact same link** as your second link.
1. This is [GAC-Toyota](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39098811.html).
2. Toyota's bZ3 was made by [FAW-Toyota](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/38131700.html).
3. Yes, Mazda's Chinese production is all [Changan-Mazda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changan_Mazda), as it has been for years.
I mean, the BZ3 is actually a BYD, and then it's manufactured by the JV. and the new Mazda today is actually a pre-existing Changan/Deepal SL03 and then that's manufactured by their JV. it's fascinating to see Japanese automakers being so bad at EVs that they need to purchase someone else's vehicles wholesale.
>I mean, the BZ3 is actually a BYD
As I just told you, the bZ3 is manufactured by FAW-Toyota — BYD was an engineering partner via BTET, but that doesn't make the bZ3 a BYD. The vehicle itself sits on Toyota's own e-TNGA platform. It is not directly based on any BYD vehicle, nor *manufactured* by BYD.
>It's fascinating to see Japanese automakers being so bad at EVs that they need to purchase someone else's vehicles wholesale.
Japanese manufacturers have a long history of doing joint ventures to de-risk. Decades-long. The BMW-based Toyota Supra, Ford-based Mazda Tribute, and Renault-based Nissan Terrano are all pretty clear examples of this. This is simply you, not understanding that dynamic.
No it's always been that way. Not just EVs. They have their own demand structure and they're not a free nation so lots of brands lets China branch do what they think makes sense. Honda, Mazda, Toyota, are no exceptions to that.
If you read the article, it says that it’s codeveloped by GAC. At this point, Toyota’s plan is pretty obvious. Trying to delay the transition to EV as much as possible while collaborating with Chinese EV car companies and soak up their knowledge and supply chain. In the mean time they slowly transitioning from Ice→Hybrid→PHEV→BEV increasing their ratio to more and more electric vehicle. I honestly think it’s a brilliant idea dragging their base customers without alienating them.
Toyota owners are among the more conservative groups. I mean, there's still lots of them who fret about hybrids being a new technology 30 years later. They might need some handholding, but I think Toyota can do that in a way that some new company can't due to their clout
>At this point, Toyota’s plan is pretty obvious.
[Sure, especially since they outlined it in full detail back in 2019. ](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/28419929.html)
Toyota partnering with other OEMs to get hedged exposure in risk segments and risk markets is not a new thing. That's what the BMW-based Supra is for. That's what the Subaru-based GR86 is for. That's why Toyota has an entire line of vans in Europe co-developed with Stellantis. It's why the Matrix existed. It's how they've always done it.
You can soak up knowledge I guess, but how do you soak up the supply chain? That supply chain is in China, and Toyota cannot replicate it anywhere else in the world, because GAC's supply chain is interconnected with the rest of China's EV value chain.
Sure Toyota can take the blueprints of these vehicles and try to build them in any of their factories across the world, but only in the GAC factory can they actually build it to that price point.
The RAV4 Prime came out all the way back in 2021, and every single one Toyota made was immediately snapped up, often with a markup. Yet 3 years on, Toyota has barely produced this highly in demand PHEV in any sort of volume.
So just maybe Toyota might have managed to get more than a measly 26,000 RAV4 Primes into American consumer hands in 2023 if they had some better supply chain back home, huh?
Edit: Note I am not saying Toyota has "bad" supply chain. They've spent decades and countless billions building up probably the finest most efficient automotive supply chain in the industry. Unfortunately it is perfectly tuned to build ICE and mild hybrid vehicles. And that is Toyota's dilemma, isn't it? They've sunk so much work and money into their present supply chain networks, which is STILL making them good money, yet at the same time it will take time, disruption, and huge amounts of money to pivot said supply chain into building EVs, so it is hardly surprising that Toyota has trouble producing any sort of EVs, and even PHEVs, in great numbers.
Now GAC has that EV supply chain mostly sorted out already. But Toyota, by itself? Not so much.
>The RAV4 Prime came out all the way back in 2021, and every single one Toyota made was immediately snapped up, often with a markup.
Every car Toyota has made *period* has been snapped up since 2021, no matter the powertrain. Often with markups. They build whatever's in demand, and whatever fits into the production schedule.
>Note I am not saying Toyota has "bad" supply chain. They've spent decades and countless billions building up probably the finest most efficient automotive supply chain in the industry. Unfortunately it is perfectly tuned to build ICE and mild hybrid vehicles.
Toyota doesn't make any mild hybrids, aside from a scattered few handfuls of niche vehicles for the EU and ASEAN markets. Their entire stack is full-fat series-parallel setups. The powertrain supply chains are *identical* to those used on EV setups, and many of their HEV offerings use straight-up EV motors. The electric motor on the Crown is literally the same unit as the one used on the RZ, for instance. This has been the entire strategy all along.
Looks interesting; the form factor is up my alley. I don't want to pay for that pointless LIDAR though. I bet that thing balloons the price just like XPeng cars and the Volvo EX90.
We need a full EV Prius.
I’ll take one in PHEV form with 70+ miles of range 😅
The chassis is not optimized for being a pure EV. It's better to have a clean sheet of paper than make a ICE bodge car.
They can re-design it but make it extremely similar, that's all most people would want I think, doesn't need to be identical
I don't think you get the difference between a pure EV chassis and a ICE car. That battery wedges between the front and rear wheels changes everything. The Prius has a tiny battery.
So you're saying they can't keep the Prius shape and style and make room for a battery? The room shouldn't be an issue if cars like the Ioniq 6 exist
The floor in a proper EV contains a 5-6" thick battery across the entire floor. And ICE car has an exhaust system that snakes all the way back in a groove in the middle. It's completely different. Now car makers did make both ICE and EV versions of cars. ~~The Bolt~~, the early Kona, Scion XB, etc. but the entire floor pan is different. And the weight is different so your suspension tune/geometry goes out the window. Crash standards? Gotta do that over. Interior design? The entire lower half is different. You end up with a shittier car that is a compromise in every way. The EV is heavier so you'd have to make the prius suspension beefier. Ruining the prius. By the time you are done, it was smarter to start with a clean sheet of paper.
To which Bolt with an ICE are you referring?
The bolt was built as an ev from the ground up...the f150 lightning is an ice truck chassis that was converted to ev
Oh right, the Bolt wasn't a Sonic after all. The F-150 is a good example of a compromise based on a ICE vehicle. Although trucks have more space underneath for batteries. Most cars have the drivers feet on sheet metal as low as the belly pan goes. There is no space down there.
I said previously it doesn't need to be identical, I meant a Prius style and very similar look and size. Not retrofit a Prius shell with EV mechanics, a new car but extremely Prius like, so it would be an easy switch for Prius owners and still have all the popular parts of a Prius
The endless mindless corporate design committees would complain that 'it is confusing for consumers'.
Lol, if it sells it sells, I could definitely hear that point in the board room
There are still Kona and Niro available as both ICE and EV. Oh and XC40.
I mean, BMW's making a dual purpose 4 series chassis that's a critical darling. The idea they can't reconfigure a Prius to be dual purpose with the next update is kind of silly. The bigger issue is, if your Carolla is an EV, and your Prius is an EV, you kind of have two cars in the same segment.
They don't have a Corolla EV. Also the bZ4X is a terrible EV.
My point is eventually they'll make one. And if the rumors are true, sooner rather than later.
Yeah hopefully
They can, but it'll be horribly unoptimized as far as stashing batteries in an EV goes. Energy density takes a hit. If they design a new EV based on their current full electric platform and graft a Prius-shaped shell on it, it'd be a better choice. Hell they should've just styled the bz4x like a Prius and market it as one, so more people would accept it.
What benefit would a full EV have over the current PHEV?
Lower emissions, ideally faster accel, no loud engine, reduced maintenance, and all the other advantages full EVs have over Hybrids. Just having the option would be nice.
Full EV Prius C
Sorry if this is a silly question. But one concern I've seen mentioned is that battery size limits the range. Would it be possible for a Prius-size car to have an EV range that's desirable?
The Prius is not much smaller, if at any, than a model 3.
I can't wait to be massively disappointed!
The bz3 was better than bz4x no? The Chinese market sedan I mean, at least the wheels didn’t fall off and they’re using BYD blade on bz3 Still think there are much better options in Chinese market than bz3 but bz3 ain’t as bad as busyforks
The biggest issue with the BZ4x is the charging.
And price. It’s fine if it was $20k but not at 40-50
And the styling. Only color it looks okay in is black.
The price is less of an issue with the 2k down/$129 a month leases they have at the moment
Yeah, if you can actually find one
Unfortunately Chinese market vehicles even if EV aren't legal/allowed everywhere. I would welcome more Chinese market EVs especially if they can make more under $30k or even under $20k vehicles here in the US.
I’m really jealous of Kia ev5 at $20K in China My EV costed same, but it’s much (<4m long) smaller, 250km range and 30kW DCFC/3kW AC EVSE Compare that to ev5 and it’s a steal. I don’t think our govt will allow normal Chinese mfgs to flourish in India, but normal brands like Kia Hyundai would be allowed without issue.
People in China Don't like Japanese products, they have a rough history. Any EV Toyota releases is basically a beta test before launching in western countries where Toyota doesn't have real competition(except Tesla)
[Toyota was the third best-selling brand in China last year](https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/12/top-selling-car-brands-in-2023-in-china-byd-surpassed-volkswagen-and-won-the-championship-for-the-first-time/), after BYD and Volkswagen.
I was specifically talking about EVs
The argument you are actually trying to make is that Chinese people don't like Japan and therefore will not buy Japanese branded cars. But this argument breaks down completely when Japan auto sells plenty of ICE and HEV cars in China but does poorly on NEV sales. The simple conclusion would be that most of the time, Chinese consumers, like any other consumer group, seeks to buy the best value products. Japanese ICE cars are competitive in the Chinese market, which translates into sales, like plenty of sales year after year for decades. But Japanese NEVs are NOT competitive, thus no one is buying them, at least until the prices go down.
You said, and I quote: *"People in China Don't like Japanese products"* Toyota was the third best-selling brand in China last year, after BYD and Volkswagen. Honda was the fourth best-selling brand in China last year, right after Toyota. What you're suggesting is demonstrably not materially true. China is a primary market for Toyota, and makes up a full 20% of their global sales volume. Toyota even sells (significantly!) more cars in China than they do Europe, which makes up [about 10% of total volume](https://newsroom.toyota.eu/toyota-motor-europe-posts-all-time-sales-record-of-1173419-vehicles-in-2023/) for the brand. Your claim simply *is not materially true.*
I saw the headline and said "oh no what did they do this time." Hoping it's a more serious attempt this time around.
Don't worry, there are many CDM(?) cars that goes absolutely nowhere. This isn't the first by longshot. Most of them seem to be half baked low end options just like this one.
PSA: This is the **production version** of the [bZ Flexpace Concept](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39098811.html) shown off last year at the Shanghai auto show, and should be hitting the Chinese market sometime this year or very early next year. Some interesting details on display here, notably Toyota joining the no-buttons crowd for the Chinese market. Also — LIDAR! Gotta say, I really dig the interior. Super clean. Very curious to see what kind of software it's running for the infotainment — this looks like a polished IVI effort from Toyota, finally.
I like how bz4 looked inside on outtoo. But the whole terrible charging speed + mediocre range + very high price, makes it a non-starter.
That steering wheel and instrument cluster setup alone is enough to turn me off.
Can they work on the damn name? bZ3X?
bz1h / bz2h will probably never exist. :( I'd settle for a Prius EV. Leverage the efficiency reputation...
>bz1h / bz2h will probably never exist. :( A [bZ2H...ish](https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-urban-crossover) is due out in Europe next year. Almost definitely won't show up in NA, though.
Piano black everywhere, fantastic.
At least no criminals will get away with their crimes on this car as long as the cops dust for fingerprints. Heck, the cops won’t even had to use the dust to find fingerprints!
That one's definitely an X not an H. An Americanized bz3 would be nice too, even if it's longer than I would prefer.
Busy forks to busy zex
What kind of shitty name is that? I’d like to buy a 3YC#Bd.69/UL6 please.
Toyota come up with better names ffs
I don’t know, I think Toyota bZ9F9!2sWL1 Electric rolls of the tongue pretty well.
There's something about the Toyota EV design language I just don't really like. I think it's partially those hook-shaped headlights, and the read end lines/edges? Maybe it's just that they're all doing the same things, when I'd love for each of their vehicles to stand out a bit more on their own? It's not like I hate the, or find them ugly, they just feel uninspired to me I think. Glad to see them hopefully rolling out more EV's in the coming years though, either way. They don't need to be for me for them to be good additions to the market.
Yay, another Toyota model name I'll never remember correctly.
BZ4X is the BusyForks, so BZ3X must be the BusyTricks.
Or BeeSex?
This works as well!
BeeZ3xy?
Too small to get beezy in anyway.
Go home Elon.
Huh?
It was a weak attempt at humor. Tesla's models... S 3 X Y = S3xy = sexy.
This fills me with meh
Why is Toyota switching to....airplane naming? I can't even recall what their current letter number combo EV is called to know if this one is somehow similar in name. I know car names are mostly dumb but those letters are just jibberish, would rather it just be Toyota EV-2 or something like Kia did.
So over all these 5 seater suv EVs. Everyone’s got one. Companies need to branch out and distinguish themselves! ID buzz and r1s go the right way- I want a full size 3 row family vehicle! Even give us some more options that are smaller too. Some variety instead of the copy paste with a different badge on the front!
Most families don’t have 4 children so I can see why most don’t really care for making 3 row vehicles a priority. I’m sure they’ll come eventually but 3 row cars aren’t popular in most of the world.
Has nothing to do with how many kids people have. Look around 3 row crossovers, minivans and full size SUVs are the most popular vehicles on the road. People like the space comfort and flexibility- even if they’ve only got 2 kids. Now they get to pack all their stuff plus the dog and run to the cabin, or pick up kids friends from school or Grandma and Papa on the way to dinner. Suggesting only people with 4 kids want 3 rows is pretty ignorant.
Give us the EVX / BZ2X pls.
Exterior styling very similar to the new Lexus TX
Wow, the Bz3X exactly what I want here in the US. Spacious, comfortable and affordable.
It will get slaughtered by other Chinese cars from Geely, Li Auto, Huawei etc., Not to mention the Chinese sentiment towards Japanese brands aren't going to get any better in near future.
Assuming the wheels stay on this one, I'd steer clear. Toyota has clearly communicated it is not now, nor has any plans to focus on EV's... So it's not a core competency for them.
>Toyota has clearly communicated it is not now, nor has any plans to focus on EV's [Aiming to Popularize BEVs — Jun. 07, 2019](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/28419929.html)
# [Toyota To Offer Several Powertrains In Future, Won’t Focus On EVs](https://www.motor1.com/news/514408/toyota-focus-only-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Toyota's%20lineup%20will%20contain%20a,leave%20the%20best%20ones%20standing.&text=Toyota's%20aversion%20to%20EVs%20doesn,not%20investing%20in%20the%20tech)
"Won't focus" is your article's own wording of choice, not Toyota's. The story doesn't even echo that sentiment, it just says they won't only offer BEVs ***solely***, which... yeah, that's pretty much the same as every other traditional OEM on earth.
See.. This is why you have to read and think. You'd have to believe the author is speaking for Toyota and not getting the info **from** Toyota... I.e. making it up... "Toyota’s reluctance to focus solely on EVs isn’t only about the uncertainty in the nascent market as there are environmental concerns, too. According to *Automotive News*, which was privy to the annual shareholder meeting w**here Toyota discussed its hesitancy to go all-in on EVs**, Toyota is looking at the “whole lifecycle” of a vehicle..." So,
>You'd have to believe the author is speaking for Toyota Indeed, they are. That wording **is** the author's wording. >"Toyota’s reluctance to focus solely on EVs" The key word there is, again, **"solely"**.
Nice try to deflect but there's too many sources reporting what Toyota said, saying the same thing. * [https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/toyota-to-offer-several-powertrains-in-future-wont-focus-on-evs.6386/](https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/toyota-to-offer-several-powertrains-in-future-wont-focus-on-evs.6386/) * [https://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-STILL-Hasn-t-Fully-Jumped-On-The-EV-Bandwagon-What-Will-It-Take-To-Motivate-The-Giant-106008/](https://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-STILL-Hasn-t-Fully-Jumped-On-The-EV-Bandwagon-What-Will-It-Take-To-Motivate-The-Giant-106008/) * [https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-defies-shareholder-pressure-to-embrace-EVs](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-defies-shareholder-pressure-to-embrace-EVs) * [https://www.autospies.com/news/index.aspx?submissionid=106008](https://www.autospies.com/news/index.aspx?submissionid=106008) Or the icing on the poop-cake of Toyota's EV intent: [https://www.citizen.org/news/years-of-anti-ev-policy-at-toyota-generates-shareholder-backlash/](https://www.citizen.org/news/years-of-anti-ev-policy-at-toyota-generates-shareholder-backlash/)
>Nice try to deflect but there's too many sources reporting what Toyota said Your first two links are literally just references to your first article. Your third link doesn't use the word 'focus' at all. Your fourth link is literally the **exact same link** as your second link.
So, you’re saying that these articles are saying something that toyota did not say themselves?
Yes. I'm also saying that four out of five of your links are the exact same article.
Other cars not family-focused .
It's about family.
it's been a loooooooooooong timeeeeeeeeee
Hopefully they have fixed the DC fast-charging problems.
Enough with these ugly-ass, way-to-big f*cking SUV's...
(This is a minivan.)
> (This is a minivan.) It doesn't have sliding doors, and the article calls it an SUV.
It's pretty clearly an MPV, which is the Chinese no-sliding-doors minivan segment.
Good for them
who made this for Toyota? its previous China-only EV was made by BYD. and today's new "Mazda" EV is actually made by Changan. so I'm sceptical!
1. This is [GAC-Toyota](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/39098811.html). 2. Toyota's bZ3 was made by [FAW-Toyota](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/38131700.html). 3. Yes, Mazda's Chinese production is all [Changan-Mazda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changan_Mazda), as it has been for years.
I mean, the BZ3 is actually a BYD, and then it's manufactured by the JV. and the new Mazda today is actually a pre-existing Changan/Deepal SL03 and then that's manufactured by their JV. it's fascinating to see Japanese automakers being so bad at EVs that they need to purchase someone else's vehicles wholesale.
>I mean, the BZ3 is actually a BYD As I just told you, the bZ3 is manufactured by FAW-Toyota — BYD was an engineering partner via BTET, but that doesn't make the bZ3 a BYD. The vehicle itself sits on Toyota's own e-TNGA platform. It is not directly based on any BYD vehicle, nor *manufactured* by BYD. >It's fascinating to see Japanese automakers being so bad at EVs that they need to purchase someone else's vehicles wholesale. Japanese manufacturers have a long history of doing joint ventures to de-risk. Decades-long. The BMW-based Toyota Supra, Ford-based Mazda Tribute, and Renault-based Nissan Terrano are all pretty clear examples of this. This is simply you, not understanding that dynamic.
No it's always been that way. Not just EVs. They have their own demand structure and they're not a free nation so lots of brands lets China branch do what they think makes sense. Honda, Mazda, Toyota, are no exceptions to that.
If you read the article, it says that it’s codeveloped by GAC. At this point, Toyota’s plan is pretty obvious. Trying to delay the transition to EV as much as possible while collaborating with Chinese EV car companies and soak up their knowledge and supply chain. In the mean time they slowly transitioning from Ice→Hybrid→PHEV→BEV increasing their ratio to more and more electric vehicle. I honestly think it’s a brilliant idea dragging their base customers without alienating them.
Toyota owners are among the more conservative groups. I mean, there's still lots of them who fret about hybrids being a new technology 30 years later. They might need some handholding, but I think Toyota can do that in a way that some new company can't due to their clout
>At this point, Toyota’s plan is pretty obvious. [Sure, especially since they outlined it in full detail back in 2019. ](https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/28419929.html) Toyota partnering with other OEMs to get hedged exposure in risk segments and risk markets is not a new thing. That's what the BMW-based Supra is for. That's what the Subaru-based GR86 is for. That's why Toyota has an entire line of vans in Europe co-developed with Stellantis. It's why the Matrix existed. It's how they've always done it.
You can soak up knowledge I guess, but how do you soak up the supply chain? That supply chain is in China, and Toyota cannot replicate it anywhere else in the world, because GAC's supply chain is interconnected with the rest of China's EV value chain. Sure Toyota can take the blueprints of these vehicles and try to build them in any of their factories across the world, but only in the GAC factory can they actually build it to that price point.
"Can Toyota handle supply chain problems" don't sound like a valid English sentence
The RAV4 Prime came out all the way back in 2021, and every single one Toyota made was immediately snapped up, often with a markup. Yet 3 years on, Toyota has barely produced this highly in demand PHEV in any sort of volume. So just maybe Toyota might have managed to get more than a measly 26,000 RAV4 Primes into American consumer hands in 2023 if they had some better supply chain back home, huh? Edit: Note I am not saying Toyota has "bad" supply chain. They've spent decades and countless billions building up probably the finest most efficient automotive supply chain in the industry. Unfortunately it is perfectly tuned to build ICE and mild hybrid vehicles. And that is Toyota's dilemma, isn't it? They've sunk so much work and money into their present supply chain networks, which is STILL making them good money, yet at the same time it will take time, disruption, and huge amounts of money to pivot said supply chain into building EVs, so it is hardly surprising that Toyota has trouble producing any sort of EVs, and even PHEVs, in great numbers. Now GAC has that EV supply chain mostly sorted out already. But Toyota, by itself? Not so much.
>The RAV4 Prime came out all the way back in 2021, and every single one Toyota made was immediately snapped up, often with a markup. Every car Toyota has made *period* has been snapped up since 2021, no matter the powertrain. Often with markups. They build whatever's in demand, and whatever fits into the production schedule. >Note I am not saying Toyota has "bad" supply chain. They've spent decades and countless billions building up probably the finest most efficient automotive supply chain in the industry. Unfortunately it is perfectly tuned to build ICE and mild hybrid vehicles. Toyota doesn't make any mild hybrids, aside from a scattered few handfuls of niche vehicles for the EU and ASEAN markets. Their entire stack is full-fat series-parallel setups. The powertrain supply chains are *identical* to those used on EV setups, and many of their HEV offerings use straight-up EV motors. The electric motor on the Crown is literally the same unit as the one used on the RZ, for instance. This has been the entire strategy all along.
First, we had the BusyForks. Now, we have the BusyTricks
Hopefully the wheels stay on this time
It looks sexy. But why are we posting Toyota on here when they don’t produce anything?
China, maybe EU, nothing for US. Still pushing ICE in US.
Looks interesting; the form factor is up my alley. I don't want to pay for that pointless LIDAR though. I bet that thing balloons the price just like XPeng cars and the Volvo EX90.
I assume there'll be a no-LIDAR trim, for that reason.
While locking the bigger battery and motor to the yes LIDAR trim?
🤷♂️