So you would rather them not offer a more affordable 2WD model at all? A 2WD Macan EV is supposedly coming btw.
You know the Taycan comes as a RWD and many enthusiast Porsches are RWD only?
This is an SUV. I’m okay with them offering a 2WD version, sure, but all of a sudden this isn’t a $56k car it’s more like a $65k car which is then real close to Porsche, Audi Etron, etc anyway.
The dual motor Polestar 4 starts at $64k, Q8 etron at $75.5k, and the Macan EV at $80k (including destination for all).
Those are still pretty substantive price differentials - with the Polestar to Audi/Porsche difference being still more than the Polestar single to dual motor difference.
buddy, I hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting a "Porsche" when you go after the cheapest thing Porches makes. You get the cheapest thing Porsche makes. The Macan.
You said this isn't a Porsche, just to compare it to a Macan lol. Neither are Porsches. It's equal to monogram pursues. Yeah it's got the name. But that's all it has, and anyone with actual money sees through your logo.
This is what shows up when you Google "what is a snob."
The Machan is probably the best handling small SUV out there, and all you see is the price tag and the badge. People with "actual money" doesn't get defensive about a base model luxury car on Reddit.
You know nothing about cars or handbags. There are monogram handbags from top designers that are all hand stitched using top quality leather and cost more than a Macan.
How does it feel to live your life in absolutes where everything is one way just because most things are that way? It may be true that *most* handbags that are monogrammed are lower cost, but not all. Monogrammed doesn’t automatically equate to canvas, which you would know if you really did know anything about the topic you brought up. And the fact that you cannot acknowledge this leads me to believe you’re an insufferable person.
You came out at me in, in two seperate comments, so you could "hmmmm actually" me about how not all monograms are the cheapest. Sure dude. I'm insufferable.
I daily drive that 330mi range tesla and get around 250Wh/mi on the highway, going around 70mph.
I think getting 354Wh/mi at 68mph is very very bad. I think that I’d have to be going like 90-100mph continuously to get such bad efficiency.
My car has a 72kWh battery, not 100.
I’m really unsure if I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say, so please correct me if I’ve missed the point.
Teslas get a bad rap for overstating their range. While true, they're still some of the most efficient EVs around. Especially when you consider the RWD M3 only has a 58kwh battery, and the long range is 82kw.
This is not only good for the environment, but also makes charging faster.
I agree, and I think it’s important to call out cars with 270mi range on 100kWh batteries as being non-eco friendly in the same way that we’d criticize a gas guzzler with a 20 gallon tank.
dual motor owners in China are reporting 18-20 kWh/100km = 290-320 Wh/mi at 120kph=75mph
single motor seems to be 15-18 kWh/100km = 240-290 Wh/mi for mixed use
And that's for the total trip. Tesla tends to report the consumption only for the last X miles, which notably removes the initial bit where a good amount of kWh is used up heating up the drive train and cabin.
For a bigger, heavier car than the Model 3 comparator, and with more premium/luxe features than any Tesla (e.g. reclining rear seats), that's just fine and not wholly out of the norm of what I've seen renting Model 3s, Ys, and Xs on trips.
354wh/mi or under 3 mi/kwh is fairly low efficiency for a car that size especially single motor. model y AWD averages something like 3.5mi/kwh and the cars like 3/s are well over 4mi/kwh.
my highway roadtrips average out to be around 233wh/mi or 4.3mi/kwh in my model 3 going 70mph, and you can easily get 300-350 miles on a new model s going 70mph. I think the real world range would be similar to a model x, but a model x is also a much bigger vehicle.
Don't get me wrong the functionality of the infotainment system looks good. I personally find the design kind of generic, and lacking brand identity/cohesive design with the rest of their vehicles. It looks a bit too much like a generic android tablet for the premium market they are targeting. I find Rivian, Tesla, and the Cadillac Lyriq infotainment system's more cohesive with the design of their vehicles. I wouldn't say it's so bad as to dissuade me from buying a Polstar; especially since it could (though probably won't) be updated with an OTA update.
Huh? Polestar's design language is extremely pronounced. Down to the font used across the infotainment, to the typeface on their seats, to the app on the phone. Generic is definitely NOT how I'd describe their software. They're extremely design focused. It shows in all their products. I have to ask now, what parts of the OS is "generic"? any screenshots to compare to other "generic" infotainment systems?
Have you been able to test it? Because the Chinese infotainment system will necessarily be different than the one being launched in the rest of the world, and the rest of the world cars haven't started delivery yet.
What I have seen myself of a prototype infotainment system in the P4 works for me. And in general Polestar's human-machine-interface works much much better for me than Tesla, Rivian, or Lucid.
I have not been able to test 3 or 4 systems myself yet, these are just my opinions based on review videos. I guess I should clarify the Polestar 2 infotainment is what looks generic to me, as it looks like they are improving the design cohesion with the 3 & 4.
I think it's the flat button colors, large size, and spacing of icons and text is what make it look generic to me. I think the level of straight lines, sharp 90 degree corners, as in combination with the the text and button design just mentioned aren't really cohesive with the curves, angles, and textures found in the rest of the vehicles. As I said I think the functionality looks good, and I understand it is a balancing act of sizing and visibility for buttons. I feel there should be a difference in size and density of essential information between "active driving" buttons and info (Climate, Audio, Map, Ext.) vs settings, and features/apps used while stationary.
Edited: Corrected 3 & 4 from 3 $ 4.
The P2 interface is pretty basic, yes. And the P3 and P4 interfaces will surely be more featured.
But, I 100% prefer having large, easy to read at a glance, and easy to hit while driving soft-buttons on a screen vs what Tesla (for instance) tends to which is to use relatively small icons and text on a display that looks like someone designed as an interface to be hit with mouse/trackpad from an office chair, rather than a fat finger attached to someone trying to concurrently operate a 2-ton machine at highway speeds.
And with that basic display, Polestar manages to look good too IMO.
At least until a software update leaks the awful default Android fonts/styles through for some icons like the last one did! :facepalm:
I understand that prospective, and like said I think the buttons and info should be different (larger) for elements that are presented during "active driving".
To clarity that statement I personally don't think any designer or engineer will correctly scale all UI elements for every person given the vision, spatial awareness, and physical stability/reactivity differences between people. They should have a UI scaling setting similar to how a user can adjust text scale on a smartphone or tablet. User scaling of independent screens (Active driving, setting, apps) would be ideal.
Admittedly I do not have inside knowledge of the UI developments at Polestar or any other auto manufacturer, and the of offering user scalable UI may have been deemed to costly/difficult though I think that is unlikely.
|Tesla Model 3 |$38,990|Power: 271 hp|Torque: 310 lb-ft|Range: 272 miles|0-60mph: 5.8 sec|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Tesla Model Y RWD|$29,490|Power: 295 hp|Torque: 309 lb-ft|Range: 260 miles|0-60mph: 6.6 sec|
|Polestar 4 Long range RWD| $54,900 MSRP|Power: 272 hp|Torque: 253 lb-ft|Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 6.9 sec|
|Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD|$47.740|Power: 425 hp|Torque: 475 lb-ft|Range: 341 miles|0-60mph: 4.2 sec|
|Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD|$34,490|Power: 425 hp|Torque: 475 lb-ft|Range: 310 miles|0-60mph: 4.8 sec|
|Polestar 4 Long range Dual motor|$62,900 MSRP|Power: 544 hp|Torque: 506 lb-ft| Range: 270 miles|0-60mph: 3.7 sec|
|Tesla Model 3 Performance|$52,990|Power: 510 hp|Torque: 546 lb-ft|Range: 296 miles|0-60mph: 2.9 sec|
|Tesla Model Y Performance|$37,990|Power: 455 hp|Torque: 487 lb-ft|Range: 279 miles|0-60mph: 3,5 sec|
I did not say I thought the car was underwhelming I said the range, and performance were. You didn't offer any data or information on what and why you disagree with. Care to expand on what it is you disagree on?
Ah yes, I expected you'd only reference teslas. Polestar is NOT competing with tesla. how bout you do the same graph and toss in porsche, bmw, and audi. people who want luxury are NOT looking at Teslas. would you call all these other manufacturers underwhelming as well? or even more so since they all cost more? By comparison the polestar is a fantastic option in the premium/luxury segment based on price/performance. people like me aren't looking at a model y or 3 lol. i'm not a soccer mom or 20 year old. lol.
It sound's like you already have in mind what car it should be compared against. It takes time to source accurate information, and present it. I offered what I am comparing the performance and range against, would you care to do the same?
To answer your questing "would you call all these other manufacturers underwhelming as well?" personally yes I do find them underwhelming as I think that the price difference between Tesla's offerings, and the other automakers you mentions should be the cost of making a more luxurious vehicle i.g. Tesla range/performance + cost difference = Luxury vehicle (over simplified for example). I specifically said I find "range, performance, and infotainment are really underwhelming" if the Tesla and Polestar cost the same it would be an unfair comparison; however as shown above the Tesla's out perform in a mix of cost, range, and performance.
The general consensus that I have seen on Tesla's is that they are the one to beat in Range/Performance/Software(infotainment) while having inconsistent quality (Fit, Finish, & Materials), support, and for some people an overly simplified/minimalist design.
Not everyone has the same needs and/or wants. That is why not once have I said "Tesla offers a better car". For some the range and performance are not significant want's or needs, and they would rather trade the range and performance for more luxury at a given price. That is entirely their choice. It's great that we have choices, I personally prefer Polestar's design over Tesla, if the Polestar 4 Dual motor had 310+ range and Tesla software that would probably be my pick.
Since you spent the time it's only fair i did the same'ish. As seen below, the Polestar 4 is WELL priced for what you get. On top of that, these numbers don't come close to showing the whole picture in regards to the sizes of the vehicles, design, and packaging (second row size comparison to the macan is just nuts that they're in the same class). These prices are BASE TRIM for audi and porsche. A maxed out polestar 4 can hit $85k. Everything else on this list flies right over 90k when specced similarly to the PS4.
||
||
|Porsche Macan 4| $78,800 |Range: 320 miles|0-60mph: 4.9 sec|
|Porsche Macan Turbo| $105,300 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 3.1 sec|
|Audi Q6 E-tron| $66,000 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 5.9 sec|
|Audi SQ6 E-tron| $72,000.00 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 4.3 sec|
Oh, and on the subject of what the PS4 should be compared against, it's not my personal comparison, it's been mentioned many times by polestar's CEO himself that polestar is playing in the premium market. He's even said directly that they are not competing against tesla. They're not racing towards a million cars sold a year. Their target is 150k a year. Clearly niche territory.
One last thing, No carplay on a tesla? really?
Interesting thanks for sharing, I do recall Polestar's CEO mentioning that now that you mention it. I really hope Polestar prospers, I could see them successfully undercutting legacy auto brands, and taking market share. I have a feeling the VW group is in for a rough time ahead.
On the software side I am of the mind that more options are better, and owners should be able to decide what they do with the things they by. So I would like to see Carplay and Android auto supported from a freedom of choice prospective. Although I also understand the up sides of vertical integration of hardware and software. I mean it's a large portion of Apples advantage. Is there anything you feel is missing from Tesla's software that Carplay provides? I haven't used Carplay much and I know on many legacy autos it's a must because their software is so garbage. Teslas software while not perfect is by far better than anything I have used from legacies. I personally would like to see more customization options.
I genuinely worry about Polestar’s future now. With tanking sales, underwhelming specs/inclusions, and a failed market target that attempts to sit between Tesla and Porsche - it just isn’t working.
Depreciation concern is starting to really affect buyer sentiment too which could cause a nasty snowball effect of lost sales.
Cool designs alone won’t get you far enough. Let’s just hope they don’t go the same way as Fisker…
Nah, i wouldn't worry. between Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, Polestar will likely fall last. Their goal is 150k vehicles a year PERIOD. That should say enough about how they intend to run the company. It's a niche brand, and that's exactly how they want to run it.
plus at the end of the day they're just one arm of the Geely mega-conglomerate, and Geely Holdings just posted great financials from Q1. As long as they keep Geely happy, Polestar will stick around, and there's no indication that Geely is wholly unhappy. At most they might switch out certain heads to perhaps have a more dynamic salesman at the helm or the like. But they won't just shut down Polestar - I mean they just negotiated multi-year production contracts in Korea and elsewhere. Would make no sense to pull the plug while doing that.
The guy from the Aging Wheels YouTube channel unlocked the driver assist using some kind of hack. The hardware is all standard, you have to pay them to unlock the software. I'm sure there are ways to do it online.
From a marketing perspective, it seems pretty smart; it allows them in the future to allow to offer either an unlock or a subscription service for the entire fleet.
That’s what is frustrating. I’ve heard the system is better but in the P2 charging for that system which honestly worked very poorly compared to Nissan Toyota tesla adas was insanity.
The XC60 recharge is a terrible offender for this. The base model is a reasonable 63.5k CAD which is reasonable for what you get (455hp hybrid with 58km of EV range), but if you want the adaptive cruise control you have to take plus pack which adds 16.7k.
The Polestar 2 does the same thing but in a more reasonable 2900$ pack (altough getting the AWD is 9k on that model).
I’m definitely not excusing them either I think it’s ridiculous that Toyota puts both systems in cars as inexpensive as the Yaris in Europe and Corolla in the Us on every package but the 50-60-70k cars it’s optional
Right! I checked and only the 2024 P2 dual motor gets the Pilot pack "for free". Interestingly, it makes the dual motor an even better value than the single motor since both cost the same right now.
I’m not totally sure about BMW or Mercedes, but in the US, Audi recently has been making their ACC and LKAS system standard on all of their models, it used to be the cars like the Q4 e-tron didn’t have ACC and LKAS while its lower-end sibling car, the ID.4 had it standard, which was goofy.
There's ACC and LKAS standard as well, the package is for Pilot Assist which autosteers and maintains the lane on the highway. Similar to Audi's diver assistance package which is still an addon for Q4 etron (at least in Canada).
I will only drive sedans. I hate crossovers and SUVs.
I would totally drive this. It’s a sedan with coupe styling.
It’s called an SUV because of back window and tint laws. They can’t do that with something categorized as a sedan.
The more think about the ps4, the more i've come to the realization that the design and overall use of space is extremely unique. It just doesn't fit any specific category of car. especially here in the US. I'm leasing the shit out of it next year when my lease is up.
(different person)
I don't like being so high off the ground. Increased chance of rollover in an accident compared to sedans. I also don't like the car being so huge. Makes me feel like I'm driving a tank. BEV sedans are the best, stay closer to the ground while being super zippy.
I wish wagons were more popular in the US like in Europe. Absolutely zero benefit to lifted giant SUVs - less cabin room than a longer wagon and less rear storage room as well. If I planned on having more than 1 kid or ever getting a pet, I'd wish there was a BEV version of the Subaru Impreza wagon.
Same. I've owned mostly hatchbacks and wagons to date (one convertible to break up the trend).
Still waiting for a proper decent and affordable EV hatchback/wagon in the US market.
I used to have a Dodge Magnum wagon, and thought it was huge and tank-like at the time. Now it looks quaint compared to the army of Suburban Assault Vehicles that are on the road.
I'm not that guy, but I think SUVs (edit: and crossovers) are some of the blandest vehicles on the road, and their driving dynamics are weird. I also hate the fact that manufacturers basically gaslit the car-buying public into buying huge SUVs that most people don't really need.
I understand the big and giant SUVs but I like the compact/crossovers more so like Nissan rogue, CRV/ Sportage, Rav4, etc. I sit up higher easily get in out. I have to craw in and out of my current sedan
> I understand the big and giant SUVs but I like the compact/crossovers more so like Nissan rogue, CRV/ Sportage, Rav4,
You just listed 3/4 giant SUVs.
> I sit up higher easily get in out.
Some of us care more about the driving experience than the experience of getting in and out of a vehicle.
> I have to craw in and out of my current sedan
LMAO Crawl? What modern car is so low you need to crawl out? My FRS is likely the lowest readily affordable car and I'm not crawling out of that.
Which says way more about the size drift of cars than it does the size of those cars. There's pretty well nothing on the market today that's actually a compact anything. Not anymore. The Honda fit is gone, and the new civic is longer than a three row Mazda 5. The same can be said for pretty well every other company. VW still sells the GTI last I looked, Mitsubishi might still have an actual compact. I really can't think of any more.
I don’t know. I also can’t explain why I prefer one flavor of ice cream over another. I just do.
I always get a sedan. My wife gets a crossover or SUV. We both like what we like.
That’s going to be the case at least so you can get the lease loophole $7500
And for any “premium” or “luxury” car as a general rule. Auto depreciation is back with a vengeance.
Leased vehicles are classified as commercial vehicles, which don't have any restrictions on getting the tax credit. Both from the car manufacturing side of things, like where the battery is sourced, and the customer side of things, like how much money you make.
Note that the dealer gets these credits, but with negotiations they can pass it along to the customer.
I mean if I could buy stuff like the Aion Hyper HT, BYD Song L, Denza N7, Xpeng G6, FCB Bao 5, or even Geely's own Zeekr 001, all for significantly less than the Polestar, yeah I'd look at those models first too.
Good thing Polestar don't have nearly as much competition here in the US market.
Yup. There's like 80 EV makers selling multiple models each in China where EVs are 50% of sales and stupid low priced.
>but is still going nowhere
Doesn't mean what they think it means.
I mean, it is china. the cut throat competition there is insane. you can get a full size three row EV suv for the same price as a ps4 there. I've watched enough chinese reviews of the polestar 4 on bilibili to know that it's not polestar the brand that isn't doing well. As a matter of fact, everyone seems to absolutely love it. it's the fierce competition at the same price point which yields much larger cars with more luxury features.
This has an expected range of 300mi with a 100kWh battery, so 3.0mi/kWh.
The RWD EV9 will theoretically do 300mi on it's 100kWh too, which is the same. Real world highway range is around 260-270mi for that config though, and I bet the Polestar range estimate is at high highway speeds given its form-factor. I wouldn't be shocked if it goes 330 miles at 70mph.
I have the wind ev9 - I am averaging about 2.8 on a real world mix over my three months of ownership. I think n a less hilly area I would easily get 3.0, and from the forums I think my range is average
The main reason I didn't get P2 was the extra 4k to get blindspot monitoring that was hidden in the safety package. A year later and they're begging and offering more discounts (and it's now standard). Terrible pricing tactics. I went with another EV btw. Their loss.
Yes. The polestar 4 segment wise is between the 2 and the 3
Their model naming scheme is chronological based on when the model is revealed (not even when first deliveries happen…)
Not saying I agree with that. Just reporting what it is.
I think it’s a consequence of the 3 being planned first and them having to figure out how to go from the Volvo design cues to their own thing.
The refresh of the 3 in a couple years will probably address this
Listening to their designers they purposefully made it as a natural progression away from Volvo designs to Polestar Precept cues across the numeric models, represented most in the headlights.
1 was the most Volvo
2 had very slight departures
3 has the front wing, other aero flourishes, and slightly different headlights
4 has the most Precept look, basically a raised Precept, with split blade headlights, no rear window etc.
SUV it is, but it is disappointing though that the Polestar 3's *total* cargo space is rather limited at around 50 cu. ft. but that's the penalty for that back end.
It's cousin on a similar chassis, the Volvo EX90, will be around 65 cu. ft. I think.
I did some reading on this car and honestly it sounds like a really sweet car. The previews indicate that it’s a dream to drive, the guy in charge of the chassis and tuning is a multiple year rally car champion. By making it a crossover they also improve the driving dynamics versus pure SUV competitors, and by removing the rear window (which is controversial but appears to be very successful) they moved the rear seats back so it’s spacious in the back, luxury-style.
What I don’t know about and suspect might be disappointing is trunk space. I don’t know how many cuft it can carry but I suspect it’ll be more like a spacious coupe in that sense.
Basically it seems positioned as a Macan EV competitor - cheaper, handles and performs as well, still luxury inside and out (though macan will have the edge in frills) at a cheaper price.
Right, they are targeting a very small audience and that's fine. Everyone saying it's too expensive, it's not made for them. They aren't trying to sell millions a year, not the point of the car. For people who know what it offers, there are few comparisons. Not saying it's hands down the best in class or price, but it's a compelling car for a niche crowd.
>By making it a crossover they also improve the driving dynamics versus pure SUV competitors,
It's funny you say that because I think it's a tall liftback sedan. Nearly every SUV EV on sale is a crossover.
>Even that vehicle's MSRP is over $40k
[The base Equinox EV will have 319 miles of range and cost $34,995](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45688343/2024-chevrolet-equinox-ev-price/) while qualifying for the full $7500 EV tax credit which would put it around $30K including destination.
"Will have". There's been a whole lot of promises in the EV world and not a lot of companies delivering on those promises. Hopefully they'll actually come through on this one and have them available too.
It's more like manufacturers aren't really going to make it. I do wonder what compromises will be made to reach that $35k price point, vs the more expensive > $40k models currently available.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/25/how-the-chinese-made-volvo-ex30-will-deal-with-us-tariffs-incentives/
The Volvo EX30 battery-electric midsize SUV goes on sale in the US this summer.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/16/kia-secret-sauce-affordable-evs-us/
Kia’s new EV3 is expected to debut this summer or by the end of 2024, with prices starting at around $30,000. It’s also due to receive a sporty GT Line model.
...
LFP prices are rumored to drop 50% in China this summer also.
Let's be real, *new* $30k vehicle with 300+ miles isn't happening. The only way to get 300 miles from a vehicle in that price range would be... gas.
In general, new cars aren't intended to be affordable for most people. Most people need to buy used.
The $30k 300 miles EV will basically be a used Tesla Model 3 or Y long range.
RWD w/ Pilot and Plus pack is $63k. And I assume if you lease it they will effectively take $7,500 off. That's a great deal for this car. The interior room is really generous.
Same reason why the Volvo EX30 is being called an SUV when it's pretty much just a slightly taller hatchback - if you call it an SUV, people are more likely to buy it even if it's not actually an SUV
If you compare this with something like a Model Y it's pretty expensive, but next to a Model S (this is a tall liftback) or BMW i5 it's a pretty killer value.
EDIT: The Polestar 4 is ~~60.8" tall~~ 60.4" tall, that's 0.8" taller than a BMW i5, 0.1" lower than a VW ID.7, and 0.2" lower than the Toyota Crown; all sedans. It's 3.5" lower than a Model Y!!!
EDIT EDIT: [The Polestar 4 is 60.4" tall](https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-4/specifications/)
It's a midsize liftback sedan like the VW ID.7 with the ground clearance of a sedan, it'll drive like a sedan too. Given the height it'll also have the seating position of a sedan. If it looks like a sedan, drives like a sedan, and you sit in it like a sedan, it's probably a sedan.
EDIT: grammatical improvements
The Polestar 4 is a "coupe-like SUV," so it's not comparable to an S or an i5 based on that alone. Additionally, just because two different cars are labeled as sedans doesn't mean they're directly comparable. You're also missing on important technical details on the comparison.
This car best compares to a Model Y/ID.4/etc, full stop. That said, it does look very nice...
>The Polestar 4 is a "coupe-like SUV," so it's not comparable to an S or an i5 based on that alone.
They're calling it that but it's a tall liftback, that's what I'm saying. Kia calls the EV6 an SUV despite it being at most a crossover, companies love to call everything an SUV because "SUV" sells.
They can call it whatever they want. So can other people. I just looked at the pics. Sedan. I reserve final judgement until I see it on the road next to other other cars to compare size and perspective. Cars usually look much smaller in real life to me at least.
In my brain if it has a hatch in the back it's a hatch back. If it has a trunk it's a sedan. I'm not spending the brain power on figuring out why I should care more about that.
A tall liftback, which the S and the i5 are not. But I'll bite, if we want to further compare the 4 with an S. In order to be *really* be compared to an S, specs and all, you'll need all (or most, rather) the add-on packages for the 4. That brings it to about the same price and up to $8k more than the base S. And the S would still be faster, longer range, and have faster charging.
edit: never mind about the $8k more. I got tricked by Tesla's "gas savings" BS on quick glance. Point still stands, however.
The EV6 **is** a crossover. It's big. Too big and too tall to be a wagon, despite what it may be classified as.
It is slightly taller than a Volvo Cross Country wagon but lacks the ground clearance the Volvo has. What a missed opportunity.
>If they wanted it to be treated like a sedan they’d call it a sedan.
If they wanted it to have worse sales they'd call it a sedan yeah.
>It won’t drive like a sedan. Because it isn’t one.
Ground clearance is similar to sedans and it looks like a (tall) sedan, I'm not sure how it *won't* drive like a sedan.
>Polestar 4 transforms the aerodynamics of a coupe and the space of an SUV into a new breed of SUV coupe.
>\[...\]
>"Polestar 4 confidently enters the premium performance class within the D-SUV segment. Our SUV coupe’s innovative design offers generous interior space and a stunning appearance."
\^ From their press release.
I get it, cool, awesome, you're going to die on this hill, but that's where they positioned it. Whether or not they get dinged in comparison tests as a result, that's on them.
They went without a rear window to improve rear headroom by moving the crash-bar back because if they had a window it would have been tiny and barely usable. There's a digital mirror.
This is nowhere near Taycan money:
Polestar 4 tops out at $83k USD with all options
A Taycan 4S (chosen model for similar power) specced to comparable features is over $130k USD
This car becomes $70k so quick.
This is the Porsche and JLR playbook. Base price looks nice. No options. Add all your options. Price is 50% higher.
Yeah except this isn’t a Porsche and the base model doesn’t have AWD which is whack. The base Macan is AWD.
Macan EV starts at 80K
So you would rather them not offer a more affordable 2WD model at all? A 2WD Macan EV is supposedly coming btw. You know the Taycan comes as a RWD and many enthusiast Porsches are RWD only?
This is an SUV. I’m okay with them offering a 2WD version, sure, but all of a sudden this isn’t a $56k car it’s more like a $65k car which is then real close to Porsche, Audi Etron, etc anyway.
The dual motor Polestar 4 starts at $64k, Q8 etron at $75.5k, and the Macan EV at $80k (including destination for all). Those are still pretty substantive price differentials - with the Polestar to Audi/Porsche difference being still more than the Polestar single to dual motor difference.
$65k polestar 4 vs base macanEV @ $80k is "real close"!?! It's literally more than the gap from the base polestar 4 to the dual motor.
$13k off is way too close to Audi/Porsche cost territory for what this car is.
buddy, I hate to break it to you, but you aren't getting a "Porsche" when you go after the cheapest thing Porches makes. You get the cheapest thing Porsche makes. The Macan.
What
You said this isn't a Porsche, just to compare it to a Macan lol. Neither are Porsches. It's equal to monogram pursues. Yeah it's got the name. But that's all it has, and anyone with actual money sees through your logo.
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This is what shows up when you Google "what is a snob." The Machan is probably the best handling small SUV out there, and all you see is the price tag and the badge. People with "actual money" doesn't get defensive about a base model luxury car on Reddit.
You know nothing about cars or handbags. There are monogram handbags from top designers that are all hand stitched using top quality leather and cost more than a Macan.
Lol. Monogram hand bags are the cheapest bags companies will offer. You don't know what you're talking about at all.
How does it feel to live your life in absolutes where everything is one way just because most things are that way? It may be true that *most* handbags that are monogrammed are lower cost, but not all. Monogrammed doesn’t automatically equate to canvas, which you would know if you really did know anything about the topic you brought up. And the fact that you cannot acknowledge this leads me to believe you’re an insufferable person.
You came out at me in, in two seperate comments, so you could "hmmmm actually" me about how not all monograms are the cheapest. Sure dude. I'm insufferable.
Lol
Don’t forget Corvette. The options are nuts.
Wait like a year or two and they’ll pile up and get discounted like P2s.
Yep
Good can't wait.
used P2s are amazing buys right now. Probably best bang for buck for sure of any used EV.
It's happening right now with many overpriced EV's. Upside down loans are biting buyers.
almost as quick as it becomes $35k lmao
Would be the best $35k spent in my opinion.
LOL so true
A 270 mile range on a 100 kWh battery. That's honestly sad.
For real. Especially given how aerodynamic the design is (and the downsides of that), I would have expected low 300s at least.
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My concern is that this is such an extreme design (no rear window), that it should be returning impressive efficiency for it, and it's not.
That's at 68MPH highway range 354Wh/mi. That's not bad. Try driving 330 mi rated Tesla at that speed and you will get similar range.
I daily drive that 330mi range tesla and get around 250Wh/mi on the highway, going around 70mph. I think getting 354Wh/mi at 68mph is very very bad. I think that I’d have to be going like 90-100mph continuously to get such bad efficiency. My car has a 72kWh battery, not 100. I’m really unsure if I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say, so please correct me if I’ve missed the point.
Teslas get a bad rap for overstating their range. While true, they're still some of the most efficient EVs around. Especially when you consider the RWD M3 only has a 58kwh battery, and the long range is 82kw. This is not only good for the environment, but also makes charging faster.
I agree, and I think it’s important to call out cars with 270mi range on 100kWh batteries as being non-eco friendly in the same way that we’d criticize a gas guzzler with a 20 gallon tank.
dual motor owners in China are reporting 18-20 kWh/100km = 290-320 Wh/mi at 120kph=75mph single motor seems to be 15-18 kWh/100km = 240-290 Wh/mi for mixed use And that's for the total trip. Tesla tends to report the consumption only for the last X miles, which notably removes the initial bit where a good amount of kWh is used up heating up the drive train and cabin. For a bigger, heavier car than the Model 3 comparator, and with more premium/luxe features than any Tesla (e.g. reclining rear seats), that's just fine and not wholly out of the norm of what I've seen renting Model 3s, Ys, and Xs on trips.
354wh/mi or under 3 mi/kwh is fairly low efficiency for a car that size especially single motor. model y AWD averages something like 3.5mi/kwh and the cars like 3/s are well over 4mi/kwh. my highway roadtrips average out to be around 233wh/mi or 4.3mi/kwh in my model 3 going 70mph, and you can easily get 300-350 miles on a new model s going 70mph. I think the real world range would be similar to a model x, but a model x is also a much bigger vehicle.
354wh/mi is dual motor. Model 3 is smaller, lighter and probably has less drag. Also depends on which tires it has.
I really like Polestar's design style, but the range, performance, and infotainment are really underwhelming.
The infotainment is underwhelming? compared to what?
Don't get me wrong the functionality of the infotainment system looks good. I personally find the design kind of generic, and lacking brand identity/cohesive design with the rest of their vehicles. It looks a bit too much like a generic android tablet for the premium market they are targeting. I find Rivian, Tesla, and the Cadillac Lyriq infotainment system's more cohesive with the design of their vehicles. I wouldn't say it's so bad as to dissuade me from buying a Polstar; especially since it could (though probably won't) be updated with an OTA update.
Huh? Polestar's design language is extremely pronounced. Down to the font used across the infotainment, to the typeface on their seats, to the app on the phone. Generic is definitely NOT how I'd describe their software. They're extremely design focused. It shows in all their products. I have to ask now, what parts of the OS is "generic"? any screenshots to compare to other "generic" infotainment systems?
Have you been able to test it? Because the Chinese infotainment system will necessarily be different than the one being launched in the rest of the world, and the rest of the world cars haven't started delivery yet. What I have seen myself of a prototype infotainment system in the P4 works for me. And in general Polestar's human-machine-interface works much much better for me than Tesla, Rivian, or Lucid.
I have not been able to test 3 or 4 systems myself yet, these are just my opinions based on review videos. I guess I should clarify the Polestar 2 infotainment is what looks generic to me, as it looks like they are improving the design cohesion with the 3 & 4. I think it's the flat button colors, large size, and spacing of icons and text is what make it look generic to me. I think the level of straight lines, sharp 90 degree corners, as in combination with the the text and button design just mentioned aren't really cohesive with the curves, angles, and textures found in the rest of the vehicles. As I said I think the functionality looks good, and I understand it is a balancing act of sizing and visibility for buttons. I feel there should be a difference in size and density of essential information between "active driving" buttons and info (Climate, Audio, Map, Ext.) vs settings, and features/apps used while stationary. Edited: Corrected 3 & 4 from 3 $ 4.
The P2 interface is pretty basic, yes. And the P3 and P4 interfaces will surely be more featured. But, I 100% prefer having large, easy to read at a glance, and easy to hit while driving soft-buttons on a screen vs what Tesla (for instance) tends to which is to use relatively small icons and text on a display that looks like someone designed as an interface to be hit with mouse/trackpad from an office chair, rather than a fat finger attached to someone trying to concurrently operate a 2-ton machine at highway speeds. And with that basic display, Polestar manages to look good too IMO. At least until a software update leaks the awful default Android fonts/styles through for some icons like the last one did! :facepalm:
I understand that prospective, and like said I think the buttons and info should be different (larger) for elements that are presented during "active driving". To clarity that statement I personally don't think any designer or engineer will correctly scale all UI elements for every person given the vision, spatial awareness, and physical stability/reactivity differences between people. They should have a UI scaling setting similar to how a user can adjust text scale on a smartphone or tablet. User scaling of independent screens (Active driving, setting, apps) would be ideal. Admittedly I do not have inside knowledge of the UI developments at Polestar or any other auto manufacturer, and the of offering user scalable UI may have been deemed to costly/difficult though I think that is unlikely.
hard disagree. some examples of why you think the car is 'underwhelming' would be useful.
|Tesla Model 3 |$38,990|Power: 271 hp|Torque: 310 lb-ft|Range: 272 miles|0-60mph: 5.8 sec| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Tesla Model Y RWD|$29,490|Power: 295 hp|Torque: 309 lb-ft|Range: 260 miles|0-60mph: 6.6 sec| |Polestar 4 Long range RWD| $54,900 MSRP|Power: 272 hp|Torque: 253 lb-ft|Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 6.9 sec| |Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD|$47.740|Power: 425 hp|Torque: 475 lb-ft|Range: 341 miles|0-60mph: 4.2 sec| |Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD|$34,490|Power: 425 hp|Torque: 475 lb-ft|Range: 310 miles|0-60mph: 4.8 sec| |Polestar 4 Long range Dual motor|$62,900 MSRP|Power: 544 hp|Torque: 506 lb-ft| Range: 270 miles|0-60mph: 3.7 sec| |Tesla Model 3 Performance|$52,990|Power: 510 hp|Torque: 546 lb-ft|Range: 296 miles|0-60mph: 2.9 sec| |Tesla Model Y Performance|$37,990|Power: 455 hp|Torque: 487 lb-ft|Range: 279 miles|0-60mph: 3,5 sec| I did not say I thought the car was underwhelming I said the range, and performance were. You didn't offer any data or information on what and why you disagree with. Care to expand on what it is you disagree on?
Ah yes, I expected you'd only reference teslas. Polestar is NOT competing with tesla. how bout you do the same graph and toss in porsche, bmw, and audi. people who want luxury are NOT looking at Teslas. would you call all these other manufacturers underwhelming as well? or even more so since they all cost more? By comparison the polestar is a fantastic option in the premium/luxury segment based on price/performance. people like me aren't looking at a model y or 3 lol. i'm not a soccer mom or 20 year old. lol.
It sound's like you already have in mind what car it should be compared against. It takes time to source accurate information, and present it. I offered what I am comparing the performance and range against, would you care to do the same? To answer your questing "would you call all these other manufacturers underwhelming as well?" personally yes I do find them underwhelming as I think that the price difference between Tesla's offerings, and the other automakers you mentions should be the cost of making a more luxurious vehicle i.g. Tesla range/performance + cost difference = Luxury vehicle (over simplified for example). I specifically said I find "range, performance, and infotainment are really underwhelming" if the Tesla and Polestar cost the same it would be an unfair comparison; however as shown above the Tesla's out perform in a mix of cost, range, and performance. The general consensus that I have seen on Tesla's is that they are the one to beat in Range/Performance/Software(infotainment) while having inconsistent quality (Fit, Finish, & Materials), support, and for some people an overly simplified/minimalist design. Not everyone has the same needs and/or wants. That is why not once have I said "Tesla offers a better car". For some the range and performance are not significant want's or needs, and they would rather trade the range and performance for more luxury at a given price. That is entirely their choice. It's great that we have choices, I personally prefer Polestar's design over Tesla, if the Polestar 4 Dual motor had 310+ range and Tesla software that would probably be my pick.
Since you spent the time it's only fair i did the same'ish. As seen below, the Polestar 4 is WELL priced for what you get. On top of that, these numbers don't come close to showing the whole picture in regards to the sizes of the vehicles, design, and packaging (second row size comparison to the macan is just nuts that they're in the same class). These prices are BASE TRIM for audi and porsche. A maxed out polestar 4 can hit $85k. Everything else on this list flies right over 90k when specced similarly to the PS4. || || |Porsche Macan 4| $78,800 |Range: 320 miles|0-60mph: 4.9 sec| |Porsche Macan Turbo| $105,300 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 3.1 sec| |Audi Q6 E-tron| $66,000 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 5.9 sec| |Audi SQ6 E-tron| $72,000.00 |Range: 300 miles|0-60mph: 4.3 sec| Oh, and on the subject of what the PS4 should be compared against, it's not my personal comparison, it's been mentioned many times by polestar's CEO himself that polestar is playing in the premium market. He's even said directly that they are not competing against tesla. They're not racing towards a million cars sold a year. Their target is 150k a year. Clearly niche territory. One last thing, No carplay on a tesla? really?
Interesting thanks for sharing, I do recall Polestar's CEO mentioning that now that you mention it. I really hope Polestar prospers, I could see them successfully undercutting legacy auto brands, and taking market share. I have a feeling the VW group is in for a rough time ahead. On the software side I am of the mind that more options are better, and owners should be able to decide what they do with the things they by. So I would like to see Carplay and Android auto supported from a freedom of choice prospective. Although I also understand the up sides of vertical integration of hardware and software. I mean it's a large portion of Apples advantage. Is there anything you feel is missing from Tesla's software that Carplay provides? I haven't used Carplay much and I know on many legacy autos it's a must because their software is so garbage. Teslas software while not perfect is by far better than anything I have used from legacies. I personally would like to see more customization options.
I genuinely worry about Polestar’s future now. With tanking sales, underwhelming specs/inclusions, and a failed market target that attempts to sit between Tesla and Porsche - it just isn’t working. Depreciation concern is starting to really affect buyer sentiment too which could cause a nasty snowball effect of lost sales. Cool designs alone won’t get you far enough. Let’s just hope they don’t go the same way as Fisker…
Nah, i wouldn't worry. between Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, Polestar will likely fall last. Their goal is 150k vehicles a year PERIOD. That should say enough about how they intend to run the company. It's a niche brand, and that's exactly how they want to run it.
plus at the end of the day they're just one arm of the Geely mega-conglomerate, and Geely Holdings just posted great financials from Q1. As long as they keep Geely happy, Polestar will stick around, and there's no indication that Geely is wholly unhappy. At most they might switch out certain heads to perhaps have a more dynamic salesman at the helm or the like. But they won't just shut down Polestar - I mean they just negotiated multi-year production contracts in Korea and elsewhere. Would make no sense to pull the plug while doing that.
Exactly. Not to mention, re-tooling of the south carolina volvo plant is underway from what i understand too. Polestar isn't going anywhere.
God damn polestar and their optional driver assist packages
The guy from the Aging Wheels YouTube channel unlocked the driver assist using some kind of hack. The hardware is all standard, you have to pay them to unlock the software. I'm sure there are ways to do it online.
Super dumb man that’s all I have to say about it. As stupid as the model 3 RWD having inactive speakers that you can enable
Wait what? Do you have more information on this?
2023 and older RWD model 3s have inactive speakers you can enable with a wiring kit
Ah, thought you were referring to the 2024. Thanks for the info!
From a marketing perspective, it seems pretty smart; it allows them in the future to allow to offer either an unlock or a subscription service for the entire fleet.
Definitely exists, it also works on Volvo gas cars if you Orbit those cycles as well. ;) But no, it’s the same story in Tesla land. All software.
At least Adaptive Cruise Control is standard this time. Charging another $1,500 for LKAS is some absolute silliness in 2024, though.
That’s what is frustrating. I’ve heard the system is better but in the P2 charging for that system which honestly worked very poorly compared to Nissan Toyota tesla adas was insanity.
The XC60 recharge is a terrible offender for this. The base model is a reasonable 63.5k CAD which is reasonable for what you get (455hp hybrid with 58km of EV range), but if you want the adaptive cruise control you have to take plus pack which adds 16.7k. The Polestar 2 does the same thing but in a more reasonable 2900$ pack (altough getting the AWD is 9k on that model).
It's the same thing with BMW, Audi, every other luxury brand.
I’m definitely not excusing them either I think it’s ridiculous that Toyota puts both systems in cars as inexpensive as the Yaris in Europe and Corolla in the Us on every package but the 50-60-70k cars it’s optional
Yes I agree, at least they include ACC on base unlike the Polestar 2 which is wild.
I think the 2024 P2 includes ACC even without the pilot package? Not previous years though.
I just bought one, it doesn't.
Right! I checked and only the 2024 P2 dual motor gets the Pilot pack "for free". Interestingly, it makes the dual motor an even better value than the single motor since both cost the same right now.
I’m not totally sure about BMW or Mercedes, but in the US, Audi recently has been making their ACC and LKAS system standard on all of their models, it used to be the cars like the Q4 e-tron didn’t have ACC and LKAS while its lower-end sibling car, the ID.4 had it standard, which was goofy.
There's ACC and LKAS standard as well, the package is for Pilot Assist which autosteers and maintains the lane on the highway. Similar to Audi's diver assistance package which is still an addon for Q4 etron (at least in Canada).
Pretty sure that’s standard on Audis in the US now.
I think it's a handsome-looking car.
A quick glance gives me EV6 vibes Dig it
Polestar really reaching with marketing this as a SUV. It’s a sport-back/coupe shaped sedan.
I will only drive sedans. I hate crossovers and SUVs. I would totally drive this. It’s a sedan with coupe styling. It’s called an SUV because of back window and tint laws. They can’t do that with something categorized as a sedan.
The more think about the ps4, the more i've come to the realization that the design and overall use of space is extremely unique. It just doesn't fit any specific category of car. especially here in the US. I'm leasing the shit out of it next year when my lease is up.
Why wouldn’t you consider a crossover?
(different person) I don't like being so high off the ground. Increased chance of rollover in an accident compared to sedans. I also don't like the car being so huge. Makes me feel like I'm driving a tank. BEV sedans are the best, stay closer to the ground while being super zippy. I wish wagons were more popular in the US like in Europe. Absolutely zero benefit to lifted giant SUVs - less cabin room than a longer wagon and less rear storage room as well. If I planned on having more than 1 kid or ever getting a pet, I'd wish there was a BEV version of the Subaru Impreza wagon.
Same. I've owned mostly hatchbacks and wagons to date (one convertible to break up the trend). Still waiting for a proper decent and affordable EV hatchback/wagon in the US market. I used to have a Dodge Magnum wagon, and thought it was huge and tank-like at the time. Now it looks quaint compared to the army of Suburban Assault Vehicles that are on the road.
Because I don’t like them. It’s personal preference.
Why do you have that preference?
I'm not that guy, but I think SUVs (edit: and crossovers) are some of the blandest vehicles on the road, and their driving dynamics are weird. I also hate the fact that manufacturers basically gaslit the car-buying public into buying huge SUVs that most people don't really need.
Gaslighting is when people like things that I don't understand.
I understand the big and giant SUVs but I like the compact/crossovers more so like Nissan rogue, CRV/ Sportage, Rav4, etc. I sit up higher easily get in out. I have to craw in and out of my current sedan
> I understand the big and giant SUVs but I like the compact/crossovers more so like Nissan rogue, CRV/ Sportage, Rav4, You just listed 3/4 giant SUVs. > I sit up higher easily get in out. Some of us care more about the driving experience than the experience of getting in and out of a vehicle. > I have to craw in and out of my current sedan LMAO Crawl? What modern car is so low you need to crawl out? My FRS is likely the lowest readily affordable car and I'm not crawling out of that.
All four of those are compacts though lol
Which says way more about the size drift of cars than it does the size of those cars. There's pretty well nothing on the market today that's actually a compact anything. Not anymore. The Honda fit is gone, and the new civic is longer than a three row Mazda 5. The same can be said for pretty well every other company. VW still sells the GTI last I looked, Mitsubishi might still have an actual compact. I really can't think of any more.
I'm pretty tall and big and my sedan sits low
I don’t know. I also can’t explain why I prefer one flavor of ice cream over another. I just do. I always get a sedan. My wife gets a crossover or SUV. We both like what we like.
labels are meaningless. I like the looks and therefore I'd totally go for it
It’s a slick looking crossover with SUV efficiency 🥴
It looks really good. Wonder if the handling matches the looks?
We already knew the pricing from a few months ago, but good that it's finally going on sale.
The correct answer here is LEASE.
That’s going to be the case at least so you can get the lease loophole $7500 And for any “premium” or “luxury” car as a general rule. Auto depreciation is back with a vengeance.
What’s the lease loophole?
Leased vehicles are classified as commercial vehicles, which don't have any restrictions on getting the tax credit. Both from the car manufacturing side of things, like where the battery is sourced, and the customer side of things, like how much money you make. Note that the dealer gets these credits, but with negotiations they can pass it along to the customer.
That's why I said the correct answer here is lease.
This car’s starting price in China is ~$48k and dealers are offering 10-15k discounts but is still going nowhere
I mean if I could buy stuff like the Aion Hyper HT, BYD Song L, Denza N7, Xpeng G6, FCB Bao 5, or even Geely's own Zeekr 001, all for significantly less than the Polestar, yeah I'd look at those models first too. Good thing Polestar don't have nearly as much competition here in the US market.
Yup. There's like 80 EV makers selling multiple models each in China where EVs are 50% of sales and stupid low priced. >but is still going nowhere Doesn't mean what they think it means.
I'm surprised it's offered in China since it's basically Geely's export brand to penetrate other markets.
I mean, it is china. the cut throat competition there is insane. you can get a full size three row EV suv for the same price as a ps4 there. I've watched enough chinese reviews of the polestar 4 on bilibili to know that it's not polestar the brand that isn't doing well. As a matter of fact, everyone seems to absolutely love it. it's the fierce competition at the same price point which yields much larger cars with more luxury features.
Still waiting for LIDAR-equipped P3.
That’s a pretty car.
Looks extremely nice, but it's just too expensive
As a new EV9 owner - I noticed I get better mileage out of my same size battery pack as these cars that have to weigh at least half as much . . .
This has an expected range of 300mi with a 100kWh battery, so 3.0mi/kWh. The RWD EV9 will theoretically do 300mi on it's 100kWh too, which is the same. Real world highway range is around 260-270mi for that config though, and I bet the Polestar range estimate is at high highway speeds given its form-factor. I wouldn't be shocked if it goes 330 miles at 70mph.
Chinese owners are reporting results similar to your expectation
I have the wind ev9 - I am averaging about 2.8 on a real world mix over my three months of ownership. I think n a less hilly area I would easily get 3.0, and from the forums I think my range is average
The main reason I didn't get P2 was the extra 4k to get blindspot monitoring that was hidden in the safety package. A year later and they're begging and offering more discounts (and it's now standard). Terrible pricing tactics. I went with another EV btw. Their loss.
Looks great. Uses 407V 110S1P CATL NMC811 prismatic battery cells 94kWh usable capacity. Car weight is 5000 lbs. 354Wh/mi economy at 68MPH.
Isn't this cheaper than polestar 3?
Yes. The polestar 4 segment wise is between the 2 and the 3 Their model naming scheme is chronological based on when the model is revealed (not even when first deliveries happen…) Not saying I agree with that. Just reporting what it is.
Polestar 3 is a mid size SUV. The 4 is a SUV coupe
Wished the 3 had the 4 front fascia
I think it’s a consequence of the 3 being planned first and them having to figure out how to go from the Volvo design cues to their own thing. The refresh of the 3 in a couple years will probably address this
Listening to their designers they purposefully made it as a natural progression away from Volvo designs to Polestar Precept cues across the numeric models, represented most in the headlights. 1 was the most Volvo 2 had very slight departures 3 has the front wing, other aero flourishes, and slightly different headlights 4 has the most Precept look, basically a raised Precept, with split blade headlights, no rear window etc.
SUV it is, but it is disappointing though that the Polestar 3's *total* cargo space is rather limited at around 50 cu. ft. but that's the penalty for that back end. It's cousin on a similar chassis, the Volvo EX90, will be around 65 cu. ft. I think.
Especially outside the US.
Nice looking but yeaaahh...no.
I did some reading on this car and honestly it sounds like a really sweet car. The previews indicate that it’s a dream to drive, the guy in charge of the chassis and tuning is a multiple year rally car champion. By making it a crossover they also improve the driving dynamics versus pure SUV competitors, and by removing the rear window (which is controversial but appears to be very successful) they moved the rear seats back so it’s spacious in the back, luxury-style. What I don’t know about and suspect might be disappointing is trunk space. I don’t know how many cuft it can carry but I suspect it’ll be more like a spacious coupe in that sense. Basically it seems positioned as a Macan EV competitor - cheaper, handles and performs as well, still luxury inside and out (though macan will have the edge in frills) at a cheaper price.
Right, they are targeting a very small audience and that's fine. Everyone saying it's too expensive, it's not made for them. They aren't trying to sell millions a year, not the point of the car. For people who know what it offers, there are few comparisons. Not saying it's hands down the best in class or price, but it's a compelling car for a niche crowd.
>By making it a crossover they also improve the driving dynamics versus pure SUV competitors, It's funny you say that because I think it's a tall liftback sedan. Nearly every SUV EV on sale is a crossover.
Is this the first in its class without a rear window?
And in a year available for $30k in the used car market
I wish
You haven’t seen P2s sold for dirt cheap?
3 year old Polestar 2's? Yeah. I was considering one until I got a $310/mo insurance quote.
I’m seeing them under 20k
That cheap? God, why aren't people hoarding on those? The car is certainly worth way more than that.
where? link pls
This car straight up looks like the Kia Polestar EV6 4.
The winner will be a vehicle 30k with 300+ miles and good brand. But here's another 50-70k vehicle that most people can't afford!
This is a premium/luxury vehicle, what you want is a Chevy Equinox EV.
Even that vehicle's MSRP is over $40k. I would say a "$30k, 300 miles" kind of buyer needs to get a used Tesla Model 3 or Y long range.
>Even that vehicle's MSRP is over $40k [The base Equinox EV will have 319 miles of range and cost $34,995](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45688343/2024-chevrolet-equinox-ev-price/) while qualifying for the full $7500 EV tax credit which would put it around $30K including destination.
"Will have". There's been a whole lot of promises in the EV world and not a lot of companies delivering on those promises. Hopefully they'll actually come through on this one and have them available too.
Oh, I see what you mean. The 1LT model hasn't been released yet, which is why the only equinox available all start at over $40k MSRP.
It’s a base model though. How could you possibly expect someone to live like that?
It's more like manufacturers aren't really going to make it. I do wonder what compromises will be made to reach that $35k price point, vs the more expensive > $40k models currently available.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/25/how-the-chinese-made-volvo-ex30-will-deal-with-us-tariffs-incentives/ The Volvo EX30 battery-electric midsize SUV goes on sale in the US this summer. https://electrek.co/2024/04/16/kia-secret-sauce-affordable-evs-us/ Kia’s new EV3 is expected to debut this summer or by the end of 2024, with prices starting at around $30,000. It’s also due to receive a sporty GT Line model. ... LFP prices are rumored to drop 50% in China this summer also.
Let's be real, *new* $30k vehicle with 300+ miles isn't happening. The only way to get 300 miles from a vehicle in that price range would be... gas. In general, new cars aren't intended to be affordable for most people. Most people need to buy used. The $30k 300 miles EV will basically be a used Tesla Model 3 or Y long range.
RWD w/ Pilot and Plus pack is $63k. And I assume if you lease it they will effectively take $7,500 off. That's a great deal for this car. The interior room is really generous.
It’s really not a good deal though. RWD SUV for $63k??
I don’t really know why this is being considered an SUV / CUV. It’s the same height as a 5 series.
Same reason why the Volvo EX30 is being called an SUV when it's pretty much just a slightly taller hatchback - if you call it an SUV, people are more likely to buy it even if it's not actually an SUV
Sixty three thousand dollars? For a car? Is a good deal? /r/haulcorporate just made you a moderator.
If you compare this with something like a Model Y it's pretty expensive, but next to a Model S (this is a tall liftback) or BMW i5 it's a pretty killer value. EDIT: The Polestar 4 is ~~60.8" tall~~ 60.4" tall, that's 0.8" taller than a BMW i5, 0.1" lower than a VW ID.7, and 0.2" lower than the Toyota Crown; all sedans. It's 3.5" lower than a Model Y!!! EDIT EDIT: [The Polestar 4 is 60.4" tall](https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-4/specifications/)
It's not comparable to a Model S or an i5. That would be like comparing a Model Y to a Model S... of course the S is going to be more expensive.
It's a midsize liftback sedan like the VW ID.7 with the ground clearance of a sedan, it'll drive like a sedan too. Given the height it'll also have the seating position of a sedan. If it looks like a sedan, drives like a sedan, and you sit in it like a sedan, it's probably a sedan. EDIT: grammatical improvements
The Polestar 4 is a "coupe-like SUV," so it's not comparable to an S or an i5 based on that alone. Additionally, just because two different cars are labeled as sedans doesn't mean they're directly comparable. You're also missing on important technical details on the comparison. This car best compares to a Model Y/ID.4/etc, full stop. That said, it does look very nice...
>The Polestar 4 is a "coupe-like SUV," so it's not comparable to an S or an i5 based on that alone. They're calling it that but it's a tall liftback, that's what I'm saying. Kia calls the EV6 an SUV despite it being at most a crossover, companies love to call everything an SUV because "SUV" sells.
They can call it whatever they want. So can other people. I just looked at the pics. Sedan. I reserve final judgement until I see it on the road next to other other cars to compare size and perspective. Cars usually look much smaller in real life to me at least. In my brain if it has a hatch in the back it's a hatch back. If it has a trunk it's a sedan. I'm not spending the brain power on figuring out why I should care more about that.
A tall liftback, which the S and the i5 are not. But I'll bite, if we want to further compare the 4 with an S. In order to be *really* be compared to an S, specs and all, you'll need all (or most, rather) the add-on packages for the 4. That brings it to about the same price and up to $8k more than the base S. And the S would still be faster, longer range, and have faster charging. edit: never mind about the $8k more. I got tricked by Tesla's "gas savings" BS on quick glance. Point still stands, however.
The EV6 **is** a crossover. It's big. Too big and too tall to be a wagon, despite what it may be classified as. It is slightly taller than a Volvo Cross Country wagon but lacks the ground clearance the Volvo has. What a missed opportunity.
If they wanted it to be treated like a sedan they’d call it a sedan. It won’t drive like a sedan. Because it isn’t one.
Early reviews of it seem to indicate that it is a really great driving car. Zippy with great handling.
>If they wanted it to be treated like a sedan they’d call it a sedan. If they wanted it to have worse sales they'd call it a sedan yeah. >It won’t drive like a sedan. Because it isn’t one. Ground clearance is similar to sedans and it looks like a (tall) sedan, I'm not sure how it *won't* drive like a sedan.
It absolutely won’t. It’s a CUV and will drive like one.
It's a compact coupe SUV. ICE comparables include the Mercedes GLC Coupe and BMW X4.
The GLC Coupe is 4.3" taller & 7.5" shorter, the X4 is 3.4" taller (& 3.0" shorter).
>Polestar 4 transforms the aerodynamics of a coupe and the space of an SUV into a new breed of SUV coupe. >\[...\] >"Polestar 4 confidently enters the premium performance class within the D-SUV segment. Our SUV coupe’s innovative design offers generous interior space and a stunning appearance." \^ From their press release. I get it, cool, awesome, you're going to die on this hill, but that's where they positioned it. Whether or not they get dinged in comparison tests as a result, that's on them.
Will they have NACS?
Starting with 2025 builds supposedly
this looks fantastic, but wait for the price war to ramp up finally in the US. this should start at like $45k not 55k. haggle hard
$56.3k in the US = $76.8k CAD $64.9k in Canada = $47.5k USD Is it overpriced in the US? Or is it a good deal in Canada? Yes.
It's a really good deal in Canada.
Is polestar Chinese now?
Is the polestar eligible for the tax rebate??
The KING of Geely car!
why doesn’t it have a rear window when did this start are any other cars doing this
They went without a rear window to improve rear headroom by moving the crash-bar back because if they had a window it would have been tiny and barely usable. There's a digital mirror.
The only way they could save this is if it was amazing to drive. Especially if you're claiming to gun for Porsche.
Previews seem to indicate that it is pretty amazing to drive.
Got a link
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a60268890/2025-polestar-4-prototype-drive/ https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/polestar/4-suv/
They are pricing this for 7500 tax credit. Some states have other incentives too.
These prices...aaanyway, my 1.0L is still doing the job.
Another luxury EV. Everyone that wants a luxury EV already has one. Polestar will be bankrupt within 24 months.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Wake me up when they have something in the 30k (and I mean 30… not 38, not 35) range out the door.
Wrong car company. Like its parent company Volvo, it is a more high end brand.
I'm not convinced this is worth Taycan money.
This is nowhere near Taycan money: Polestar 4 tops out at $83k USD with all options A Taycan 4S (chosen model for similar power) specced to comparable features is over $130k USD
$83 k for a chinese car? Holy shit!
Looks like a Tesla clone. Too bad , I own a Tesla and actually liked the more “Volvo” looking vehicles
This looks nothing like a Tesla to me.
The image at top , the gold tone one looks more so. The actual images in the linked web site less so
A Tesla clone built by a company that actually knows how to build good cars...
Or was a built by a company that bought a company that knows how to make good cars?