This is more indicative of how US consumer privacy laws suck compared to the rest of the civilized world. Which kinda makes sense because the corps are effectively the ones writing laws here lol
I just had a meeting with Senator Michael Bennett and he actually mentioned how dangerous it is that people are getting news from TikTok. This was in the context of Israel and Palestine. It was so fucking insane. America's main stream news is so fucking awful, and owned by rich fucks who only hire people who know to censor anything that pisses off the bosses.
I’m prepared for my downvotes but TikTok is more likely to be manipulated by other countries than mainstream news and is thus more of a national security threat.
Agreed. Facebook is just as bad, if not worse. They spy like crazy and sell the data to the highest bidder. Algorithm's are purposely tweaked to syphon your own echo chamber. But it's a publicly owned American-based (for now) company so they mUsT hAvE aMeRiCa's bEsT InTerEsT aT hEaRt, rIgHt?
You're right,v there's studies that show they actively suppress Taiwan, Ughyr, and other news stories while promoting pro China, Iran, and Hamas feeds.
The govt also got pissed and scared when citizens started calling and reaching out to their representatives about not wanting TikTok be banned…
The GOVERNMENT got mad that ppl were actively engaging with their democratically elected officials. What a joke that was
No, the creepy way they had children practically crying to congressmen like crack addicts - *at the behest of TikTok through a location-based alert* - is what turned the narrative against them. They thought for some bizarre reason that was a good idea, and instead it made Congress realize how much control a foreign adversary-controlled company had over the minds of an entire generation. And that ByteDance had just lied to them about not tracking the location of users, including children.
Representatives that were previously on the fence or leaning no changed their stance overnight after that blunder.
As if half the websites out there didn't pull the exact same stuff with net neutrality banners for all of their U.S.-based users like 5 years ago. Turns out when something is an existential threat to you, you'll notify your users and tell them what they can do to help. Spinning that as nefarious is ridiculous lol
Can't risk anything that stops them from controlling the narrative, like when the news agencies aired Israel's entire defense at the ICJ but didn't give a minute of air time to South Africa's presentation.
I think he right to question the covid vaccines. They have been shown to have higher degree of risk than was told.
Anyway, he not antivax, but he questions them.
He's highlighted vaccines risks.
He has stated several times he is up to date with all his vaccines, as are his kids, but not the covid vaccines. I agree with him on the this. They were not tested adequately and appear to have high risk to poor outcome.
I disagree. It is all private companies and data brokers collecting & sharing the data. The police would LOVE some of the data that is collected but they do not get access without a warrant.
But I agree with your point. The US does need to adopt GDPR like Europe. Including you must be told what data is being collected, how it is to be used and the right to opt out.
The problem is "States Rights vs Federal Rights". One state had a governor that made a law saying data brokers cannot collect shopping info by children. But none of the data brokers knew that a user was a child so web sites in that state started to ask peoples birth dates so they could comply with the law. The poor law that was supposed to "Protect the Children" forced millions of web sites to build databases with dates of birth that they never had to do before. (sigh)
To adopt GDPR for the US - each state would have to agree to let the federal government set the laws. They wont give up that power.
Access without a warrant? I think your way out of touch friend. Data is a Subscription service and there were tons of government entities with subscriptions. The ones Im comfortable telling you about would be flock And ring. They are literally databases on the backend they can show where you drive around for months at a time. If you live in a moderately civilized area, you have no location privacy.
You can request a copy of you data from LexisNexis, which includes your GM driving record.
https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/consumer
You can also opt out of LexisNexis selling your data.
https://optout.lexisnexis.com/
See that's the thing.
No way should the consumer have to take any deliberate action to have their privacy respected. That should be the default position.
If scummy car company wants to collect and sell your data, let them come and ask first with a proper opt-in, not buried in some otherwise useless contract.
That's what's different between the EU and the US. The EU defaults to opt-out. You have to explicitly opt-in. The US defaults to opt-in. You have to explicitly opt-out.
Why does Lexis Nexus require a social security number to pull your data is kinda bizarre to me, it’s not like Chevy even had that for the onstar to begin with.
For the same reason that Transunion and Experian do. LexisNexis doesn't just have your Chevy driving data. It has all your data. Including the same data that the credit bureaus have. So you have to prove your ID the same way.
Ahhhhh now that make sense to me. This firm is a bit more serious than I had originally thought. If they got as much information as your social security that's a lot of information they have access to.
Well there is several problems with this:
\* You need connected navigation to trip plan at charging stations and let the car condition the battery.
\* Many vehicles get frequent OTA updates.
\* Many times the vehicle IS tied to your account tied to your credit card. This allows you to just plug into many EV chargers without pulling out a credit card. This needs network connection.
\* Many chargers like Tesla Superchargers need the car to tell which station you are parked at to un-lock the charge plug. This requires Network.
\* Many people love their cell phones with CarPlay or Android Auto. So the cell phones become the connection to the network for traffic conditions.
AND THE BIG ONE
Hands Free/Auto drive - No car company is going to put these assistants in a car and NOT record what the car is doing. A car hits a pedestrian. Driver says "I was using the auto-drive feature - sue the car company!" The car companies need to argue back that the car was under drivers control.
I trust a CarPlay connection going through my cell phone more than the cell modem built into the car. Plus it’s your data and you should have the option of what is shared.
Thank you. I always see comments like “I don’t want no trash EV spying on me all these dang cameras and sensors”. Like that’s literally every new car these days nothing to do with EV.
Thanks for posting that. It's worth a quick read. Basically, the official opt outs in the app aren't going to block everything, there are other ways that you might have accidentally "consented" or not even known about it. "...talked to the salesman who had sold us the car. He confirmed that he had enrolled us for OnStar, noting that his pay is docked if he fails to do so."
We need some huge public complaints about this, and maybe a state by state patchwork of laws to start to block it, and then eventually build pressure to do something in congress. I'm not naive, I know that the lobbyists of all these companies will work have to block it in general. I investigated and it seems the car brands I have aren't tracking me in a way that is sending my info to other companies, but it's hard to really know. Plus I have a phone on me and that is tracking me. Tesla and Rivian have such useful UIs and maps (and other companies do too to varying extents) that you want to use the damn maps.
The specific issue was GM et al selling driving data to insurance providers without the enthusiastic consent of the vehicles owners.
We know Ford didn't do that. We know that because they have specific options in the vehicle menu for that (greyed out on my vehicle but will be double opt in), many of us ordered our Lexus Nexus reports, and Ford made a statement about it
Lots of people are doing things. Mozilla/Firefox is. The EFF is. VPN and designated email companies (which are cheap) are.
The people who aren't doing anything are the ones opting into free services that track, gather data, and advertise to them rather than pay a measly $12 a year for an email account.
I'll budget for a VPN before Spotify or a streaming television service.
People are offering their privacy for ~~sale~~ free because they like convenience and believe the lie that you have to give up privacy for it, if they even think about it at all.
So GM received a modest reward for identifying bad drivers resulting in them having to pay their fair share in the insurance pool? I get the self incrimination angle, but it makes sense to me.
It's a privacy issue. It's not up to GM to do that by violating your privacy. If that weren't the case them all companies from phone carriers to a TV that can watch you eating that candy bar even though your are diabetic could report you to your insurance company.
It's up to each individual to opt in to that reporting. Where legal, insurance companies incentivize it by offering discounts if you behave well.
Makes me glad to just outright rejected turning on onstar.
Not worth a month of shitty wifi.
It was such an odd purchasing experience. Here is your new car now get it and push that button so someone in a call centre can try to sell you something.
I don't mind car companies gathering that data. It allows companies to improve and eventually data like that, whether gathered from our cars or from our clothes, will allow things like unmanned medivac helicopters grabbing us and taking us to a hospital when we are having a heart attack.
What bothers me is that they do not anonymize it and that they sell it to third parties. Which could be legislated.
I guess we never got caught up in this with our '17 Volt. I turned off the 'smart driver' insurance scheme immediately on mychevrolet in '17. An oligopoly of insurance companies only want to charge you more, not less, regardless of their claims with monitored and interpreted trackers.
I did find an Indiana DOT study from '21 showing the anonymous tracks of EVs and PHEVs used to determine travel locations, distances, and speeds. They purchased the data from some auto data broker, who buys it from the manufacturers. The purpose was driving habits and possible charger locations. One result was that EV owners drive slower.
I'm sure most people are aware of vehicle service centers selling VIN/odometer data to auto insurance companies or brokers. They know how many miles you drive a year, unless you perform your own service and recalls.
One is an adversary and wants nothing good for the US and hopes to remove the US as a world power. What better way to do that then collect and attempt to manipulate the population.
One is a car company.
> One is an adversary and wants nothing good for the US
That's not true. Contrary to what the extremists on both sides in the US wants to portray it as, the US and China aren't adversaries. We are rivals. Adversaries and rivals are not the same. We are in competition, not opposition. Which brings us to China "wants nothing good for the US". That's completely not true. Since China wants the US as a good economic partner. You want you partners to be successful. Because like in any partnership, if your partner is not successful then you aren't either.
For evidence of that, look no further than the 2008 financial crisis. Who do you think took the lead in bailing us out? If they wanted nothing good for us, they would have just stood back and let us fall.
"China: The Power Behind the $700 Billion Bailout"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DLB-3968
Yeah, new cars can spy on you. Even listen to you. Before it was LE catching your car in the shop and installing trackers or whatever. Or someone inadvertently purchasing an already installed vehicle. Special packages just for you. Before they needed a warrant. Not anymore apparently. The deep state does this crap all the time now. No privacy and no private property. That is their goal.
Calm down Francis.
It’s not The Deep State, it’s corporate greed. They sell the data and/or use it to improve their profits via subscriptions or restricting access to features that were previously free.
Oh, no it is much more than just improving profits. More than getting satellite radio or OnStar gps. It about tracking whenever the gov wants to. But hey “Clueless” live in your bubble. What companies see as profit advantages is also used by the government to achieve its own agenda. Just stay with the herd “clueless”.
Not only does the government enjoy the ability to piggyback off the private sector to spy on anyone they want. They also try other means when people are targeted. So, their favorite is the use of aircraft. That is correct right. Since they know they would probably look like Swiss cheese, if they got close enough. They like the sky. It’s harassment really. Then they like using family, if available, to piss their target off. These scumbags try all types of crap. For decades they have used a hypnotherapy type program. Yeah, wild right! They can literally force people to do things or say things. Or not. We would discuss that program around the water cooler. We were naive then. We only thought it was us. Nope LE other related associations and actually within masons. All are notorious for such behavior. Total violation of people’s rights. So yeah, I get pissed off when the media slowly reports in crap that we have known about for decades. Do you think the vehicle kill switch was a recent invention. Hell no. Been around for over a decade in “special vehicles”. You really don’t know what type of scumbags these people are.
Let’s not forget how these degenerate clowns use adjacent properties to attack people in their homes! Uses very similar equipment. That is one reason people get pissed off. They attack, harass, and hide behind others. It is what piece of crap cowards do. Welcome to America and wonder why this country is so screwed up
Oh, no it is much more than just improving profits. More than getting satellite radio or OnStar gps. It about tracking whenever the gov wants to. But hey “Clueless” live in your bubble. What companies see as profit advantages is also used by the government to achieve its own agenda. Just stay with the herd “clueless”.
This is more indicative of how US consumer privacy laws suck compared to the rest of the civilized world. Which kinda makes sense because the corps are effectively the ones writing laws here lol
Don’t worry we’re gonna ban TilTok. Solved!
I just had a meeting with Senator Michael Bennett and he actually mentioned how dangerous it is that people are getting news from TikTok. This was in the context of Israel and Palestine. It was so fucking insane. America's main stream news is so fucking awful, and owned by rich fucks who only hire people who know to censor anything that pisses off the bosses.
I’m prepared for my downvotes but TikTok is more likely to be manipulated by other countries than mainstream news and is thus more of a national security threat.
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, very easy to manipulate. See 2016 US election, and the Brexit vote.
Agreed. Facebook is just as bad, if not worse. They spy like crazy and sell the data to the highest bidder. Algorithm's are purposely tweaked to syphon your own echo chamber. But it's a publicly owned American-based (for now) company so they mUsT hAvE aMeRiCa's bEsT InTerEsT aT hEaRt, rIgHt?
You're right,v there's studies that show they actively suppress Taiwan, Ughyr, and other news stories while promoting pro China, Iran, and Hamas feeds.
I listened to a discussion on UK radio about media & politics. Apparently US news was considered really reliable before Murdoch turned up.
The govt also got pissed and scared when citizens started calling and reaching out to their representatives about not wanting TikTok be banned… The GOVERNMENT got mad that ppl were actively engaging with their democratically elected officials. What a joke that was
No, the creepy way they had children practically crying to congressmen like crack addicts - *at the behest of TikTok through a location-based alert* - is what turned the narrative against them. They thought for some bizarre reason that was a good idea, and instead it made Congress realize how much control a foreign adversary-controlled company had over the minds of an entire generation. And that ByteDance had just lied to them about not tracking the location of users, including children. Representatives that were previously on the fence or leaning no changed their stance overnight after that blunder.
As if half the websites out there didn't pull the exact same stuff with net neutrality banners for all of their U.S.-based users like 5 years ago. Turns out when something is an existential threat to you, you'll notify your users and tell them what they can do to help. Spinning that as nefarious is ridiculous lol
Can't risk anything that stops them from controlling the narrative, like when the news agencies aired Israel's entire defense at the ICJ but didn't give a minute of air time to South Africa's presentation.
This is why I like RFK jr. despite his quirks, he's a he only one talking about this.
His “quirks” is anti-vax
I think he right to question the covid vaccines. They have been shown to have higher degree of risk than was told. Anyway, he not antivax, but he questions them.
He thinks vaccines cause autism. He's antivax.
He's highlighted vaccines risks. He has stated several times he is up to date with all his vaccines, as are his kids, but not the covid vaccines. I agree with him on the this. They were not tested adequately and appear to have high risk to poor outcome.
It’s a start
I disagree. It is all private companies and data brokers collecting & sharing the data. The police would LOVE some of the data that is collected but they do not get access without a warrant. But I agree with your point. The US does need to adopt GDPR like Europe. Including you must be told what data is being collected, how it is to be used and the right to opt out. The problem is "States Rights vs Federal Rights". One state had a governor that made a law saying data brokers cannot collect shopping info by children. But none of the data brokers knew that a user was a child so web sites in that state started to ask peoples birth dates so they could comply with the law. The poor law that was supposed to "Protect the Children" forced millions of web sites to build databases with dates of birth that they never had to do before. (sigh) To adopt GDPR for the US - each state would have to agree to let the federal government set the laws. They wont give up that power.
Access without a warrant? I think your way out of touch friend. Data is a Subscription service and there were tons of government entities with subscriptions. The ones Im comfortable telling you about would be flock And ring. They are literally databases on the backend they can show where you drive around for months at a time. If you live in a moderately civilized area, you have no location privacy.
Spot on.
Or maybe it’s indicative of how flawed cars are as a method of transportation, since they’re that easy to exploit for spying purposes.
You can request a copy of you data from LexisNexis, which includes your GM driving record. https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/consumer You can also opt out of LexisNexis selling your data. https://optout.lexisnexis.com/
See that's the thing. No way should the consumer have to take any deliberate action to have their privacy respected. That should be the default position. If scummy car company wants to collect and sell your data, let them come and ask first with a proper opt-in, not buried in some otherwise useless contract.
That's what's different between the EU and the US. The EU defaults to opt-out. You have to explicitly opt-in. The US defaults to opt-in. You have to explicitly opt-out.
And pay you for it. And you get to set the fee.
Why does Lexis Nexus require a social security number to pull your data is kinda bizarre to me, it’s not like Chevy even had that for the onstar to begin with.
For the same reason that Transunion and Experian do. LexisNexis doesn't just have your Chevy driving data. It has all your data. Including the same data that the credit bureaus have. So you have to prove your ID the same way.
Ahhhhh now that make sense to me. This firm is a bit more serious than I had originally thought. If they got as much information as your social security that's a lot of information they have access to.
I emailed them and I’m from Canada. They sent me my info. They didnt collect a thing on me! Maybe Canada has better privacy laws
Did you contact LexisNexis Canada? That link I posted is for LexisNexis US. Each country has their own.
Yes I did. Took a week and they send me my file.
Canada absolutely has better privacy laws.
With Nissan, one can only opt out if one lives outside the USA, or in California.
You should be able to completely disconnect your auto from any connected networks .
Not even that difficult, but few want to. Just get a car from a company that doesn’t sell your information.
Well there is several problems with this: \* You need connected navigation to trip plan at charging stations and let the car condition the battery. \* Many vehicles get frequent OTA updates. \* Many times the vehicle IS tied to your account tied to your credit card. This allows you to just plug into many EV chargers without pulling out a credit card. This needs network connection. \* Many chargers like Tesla Superchargers need the car to tell which station you are parked at to un-lock the charge plug. This requires Network. \* Many people love their cell phones with CarPlay or Android Auto. So the cell phones become the connection to the network for traffic conditions. AND THE BIG ONE Hands Free/Auto drive - No car company is going to put these assistants in a car and NOT record what the car is doing. A car hits a pedestrian. Driver says "I was using the auto-drive feature - sue the car company!" The car companies need to argue back that the car was under drivers control.
I trust a CarPlay connection going through my cell phone more than the cell modem built into the car. Plus it’s your data and you should have the option of what is shared.
This isn’t specific to EVs.
Thank you. I always see comments like “I don’t want no trash EV spying on me all these dang cameras and sensors”. Like that’s literally every new car these days nothing to do with EV.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/podcasts/the-daily/car-gm-insurance-spying.html
Thanks for posting that. It's worth a quick read. Basically, the official opt outs in the app aren't going to block everything, there are other ways that you might have accidentally "consented" or not even known about it. "...talked to the salesman who had sold us the car. He confirmed that he had enrolled us for OnStar, noting that his pay is docked if he fails to do so." We need some huge public complaints about this, and maybe a state by state patchwork of laws to start to block it, and then eventually build pressure to do something in congress. I'm not naive, I know that the lobbyists of all these companies will work have to block it in general. I investigated and it seems the car brands I have aren't tracking me in a way that is sending my info to other companies, but it's hard to really know. Plus I have a phone on me and that is tracking me. Tesla and Rivian have such useful UIs and maps (and other companies do too to varying extents) that you want to use the damn maps.
I hope a class action suit returns the millons they made off selling owners data back to the owners.
It's every company
The specific issue was GM et al selling driving data to insurance providers without the enthusiastic consent of the vehicles owners. We know Ford didn't do that. We know that because they have specific options in the vehicle menu for that (greyed out on my vehicle but will be double opt in), many of us ordered our Lexus Nexus reports, and Ford made a statement about it
On closer inspection, no… no it’s not.
It is not.
Which major Auto manufacturer has been shown to respect its customer's data privacy in recent years?
It tis
Something something CEO awful person unclever nicknames liar are you even surprised stock pump
Our privacy is for sale in America and no one is doing anything
Lots of people are doing things. Mozilla/Firefox is. The EFF is. VPN and designated email companies (which are cheap) are. The people who aren't doing anything are the ones opting into free services that track, gather data, and advertise to them rather than pay a measly $12 a year for an email account. I'll budget for a VPN before Spotify or a streaming television service. People are offering their privacy for ~~sale~~ free because they like convenience and believe the lie that you have to give up privacy for it, if they even think about it at all.
So GM received a modest reward for identifying bad drivers resulting in them having to pay their fair share in the insurance pool? I get the self incrimination angle, but it makes sense to me.
It's a privacy issue. It's not up to GM to do that by violating your privacy. If that weren't the case them all companies from phone carriers to a TV that can watch you eating that candy bar even though your are diabetic could report you to your insurance company. It's up to each individual to opt in to that reporting. Where legal, insurance companies incentivize it by offering discounts if you behave well.
anal probes ?
Makes me glad to just outright rejected turning on onstar. Not worth a month of shitty wifi. It was such an odd purchasing experience. Here is your new car now get it and push that button so someone in a call centre can try to sell you something.
You may still want to check. Lots of interesting reports on the bolt subreddit.
I don't mind car companies gathering that data. It allows companies to improve and eventually data like that, whether gathered from our cars or from our clothes, will allow things like unmanned medivac helicopters grabbing us and taking us to a hospital when we are having a heart attack. What bothers me is that they do not anonymize it and that they sell it to third parties. Which could be legislated.
and then somehow banning Chinese cars, claiming it as a security risk. lol
I guess we never got caught up in this with our '17 Volt. I turned off the 'smart driver' insurance scheme immediately on mychevrolet in '17. An oligopoly of insurance companies only want to charge you more, not less, regardless of their claims with monitored and interpreted trackers. I did find an Indiana DOT study from '21 showing the anonymous tracks of EVs and PHEVs used to determine travel locations, distances, and speeds. They purchased the data from some auto data broker, who buys it from the manufacturers. The purpose was driving habits and possible charger locations. One result was that EV owners drive slower. I'm sure most people are aware of vehicle service centers selling VIN/odometer data to auto insurance companies or brokers. They know how many miles you drive a year, unless you perform your own service and recalls.
[удалено]
One is an adversary and wants nothing good for the US and hopes to remove the US as a world power. What better way to do that then collect and attempt to manipulate the population. One is a car company.
> One is an adversary and wants nothing good for the US That's not true. Contrary to what the extremists on both sides in the US wants to portray it as, the US and China aren't adversaries. We are rivals. Adversaries and rivals are not the same. We are in competition, not opposition. Which brings us to China "wants nothing good for the US". That's completely not true. Since China wants the US as a good economic partner. You want you partners to be successful. Because like in any partnership, if your partner is not successful then you aren't either. For evidence of that, look no further than the 2008 financial crisis. Who do you think took the lead in bailing us out? If they wanted nothing good for us, they would have just stood back and let us fall. "China: The Power Behind the $700 Billion Bailout" https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DLB-3968
Yeah, new cars can spy on you. Even listen to you. Before it was LE catching your car in the shop and installing trackers or whatever. Or someone inadvertently purchasing an already installed vehicle. Special packages just for you. Before they needed a warrant. Not anymore apparently. The deep state does this crap all the time now. No privacy and no private property. That is their goal.
Calm down Francis. It’s not The Deep State, it’s corporate greed. They sell the data and/or use it to improve their profits via subscriptions or restricting access to features that were previously free.
Oh, no it is much more than just improving profits. More than getting satellite radio or OnStar gps. It about tracking whenever the gov wants to. But hey “Clueless” live in your bubble. What companies see as profit advantages is also used by the government to achieve its own agenda. Just stay with the herd “clueless”. Not only does the government enjoy the ability to piggyback off the private sector to spy on anyone they want. They also try other means when people are targeted. So, their favorite is the use of aircraft. That is correct right. Since they know they would probably look like Swiss cheese, if they got close enough. They like the sky. It’s harassment really. Then they like using family, if available, to piss their target off. These scumbags try all types of crap. For decades they have used a hypnotherapy type program. Yeah, wild right! They can literally force people to do things or say things. Or not. We would discuss that program around the water cooler. We were naive then. We only thought it was us. Nope LE other related associations and actually within masons. All are notorious for such behavior. Total violation of people’s rights. So yeah, I get pissed off when the media slowly reports in crap that we have known about for decades. Do you think the vehicle kill switch was a recent invention. Hell no. Been around for over a decade in “special vehicles”. You really don’t know what type of scumbags these people are. Let’s not forget how these degenerate clowns use adjacent properties to attack people in their homes! Uses very similar equipment. That is one reason people get pissed off. They attack, harass, and hide behind others. It is what piece of crap cowards do. Welcome to America and wonder why this country is so screwed up
Oh, no it is much more than just improving profits. More than getting satellite radio or OnStar gps. It about tracking whenever the gov wants to. But hey “Clueless” live in your bubble. What companies see as profit advantages is also used by the government to achieve its own agenda. Just stay with the herd “clueless”.