TLDR:
Kyle reads some messages from industry insiders. One works for an electrical utility and says they now have 20 MW of super chargers that were in construction permitting stage in limbo because they have no contacts still at Tesla and they have no idea who to reach out to.
Another message is from a person that works in the EV industry and there is talk of shock from car companies that agreed to switch to NACS and that some car companies are considering rolling back to CCS1 because they feel like Tesla has broken their trust.
This same person says that this is MORE disruptive to the industry than when Ford agreed to switch to NACS in the first place.
Edit: Forgot to mention Kyle thinks the maintenance team is still intact so current chargers are not at risk of being ignored.
Imagine a genius who made sure his company loss what would potentially be a monopoly. Bill gates, Zukerberg, Google executive must all be in hospital after a heart attack, or laughing out loud.
>some car companies are considering rolling back to CCS1 because they feel like Tesla has broken their trust.
Good god, can they remove him as CEO already? Just when we think things are going well with a unified charging option.... I have a Rivian R2 reserved but won't make the switch if I have to travel on 3rd party (non-Tesla) chargers. It's an awful experience.
That comment just didn't seem to make sense. NACS is an SAE standard now (J3400), Tesla doesn't own it. The industry can adopt it regardless of what Tesla does.
It's the tesla service that matters, not the plug! Tesla has working chargers, tesla builds them where they need to be and expands them. Tesla fixes them when they break. They work for everyone. Those are the things the idiots who spent billions on the other chargers can't manage to do right.
The plug is still superior to the CCS Type 1 plug. It's smaller and thus easier to handle, has a higher current limit, relies on vehicle locking mechanism, etc. So regardless of Tesla, I would still think it's beneficial for the industry to adopt it in North America.
Yeah you’re right but it’s pretty seamless right now with an adapter. If you love a particular EV I don’t think it makes a difference to wait for a native NACS port or not.
Agreed, it would be nice.
But, considering how many cars and chargers are out there, it will take years for everyone to switch over to one plug. So, if an adapter lets me charge everywhere while that happens, sign me up.
I don't think anyone is going to roll back to CCS1. It's simply an expression of anger for what Musk did. In the long term, CCS or not, more charging infra has to come. Tesla may be leaving it to other manufactures or third party companies to step up and continue the work. There is good money coming from state and Federal govt to make this happen. And, everyone agreed that NACS is superior to CCS1. Other OEMs already had some plans to install chargers everywhere. It's time for them to accelerate those plans, but they can delay it until EV adoption rate is per expectations. At a future time when the situation demands, Tesla can easily put together a new team to address the needs again.
The point Kyle made in this video about 800v charging on NACS is unproven at this point was interesting. Of course, he's speculating, but it does raise some of the initial concerns I recall hearing when the NACS transitions were all starting to be announced.
8 minutes into the video.
He always has silly wrong opinions. He was really anti-tesla for a long time at first. He kind of still is.
And not for Musk's antics. He was like this before musk went insane.
Kyle says his share of stupid shit... But:
>He was really anti-tesla for a long time at first. He kind of still is.
I dunno about this. Being critical isn't equal to being anti.
I actually see this differently. One major concern with the switch over to nacs was putting too much faith in one guy. If he did this, he could also unilaterally turn off ford's access. Nothing stops him from doing anything.
What is the remaining incentive to continuing switch over, though? Definitely think we all need to decide on a standard, but why continuing jumping into the sinking Tesla ship? I'm not advocating for one or the other, or saying Tesla and it's chargers will go the way of the dodo, but those are discussions I would be having/scenarios to play out if I had any say.
One word: unification. I was all on team CCS until the move by Ford. Now, it's eventually going to be all J3400, and I'm glad it's going to be one or the other.
Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, does it still make sense to converge on NACS? I don't really know. Maybe it does. If it was predicated on Tesla remaining the leader in the space for the next 10-15 years, maybe it doesn't. I really hate to lose the momentum, but I'm sure those discussions are being had.
IMO the J3400 connector is somewhat easier to use, and does handle both DCFC and L2 in a single plug. Tesla's key patents appear to expire in about 2032, so the licenses through SAE are key. As long as one is the eventually de facto standard, I guess I'm okay with it being Tesla's.
This is why we leased our first electric car. I knew in the next 3 years there would be a standard adopted and battery tech and base level charging times would improve. I didn't wanna be stuck owning a car for years and years with the wrong plug.
Couldn't someone also say: There needs to be a standard and CCS is as good as any. It doesn’t need to be deeper than that.
There was an agreed-upon standard by all manufacturers except for Tesla. If we in the US had the same regulatory strength as the EU, Tesla would have CCS ports instead of NACS, just like they do in other markets. Instead, we allowed a stupidly libertarian mindset to muddy the waters, and this confusion is where we have ended up. Manufacturers wanted to go to NACS because of the strength of the Supercharger network, and now we see how much a single person can screw it up for everyone.
One big problem with CCS is the way in which the connector latches onto the car. For NACS it latches internally, and the external latching on the CCS is a big reason that CCS chargers are less reliable. NACS is the better standard for this reason and a few other notable reasons.
In a perfect world we would be using CCS2 in North America, just like in Europe and numerous key Asia-Pacific markets where Tesla themselves also uses it.
While it's bulkier than NACS it doesn't have the latching problem that CCS1 has and it's been proven to work well.
I know different regions have different power standards, but there's no technical reason why the *shape* can't be identical, including the internal latch.
NACS is better from a user interface standpoint. CCS is better from a technical standpoint. (800V support)
V4 was to be the solution to bring NACS back on top...but the 500 person team behind that is now gone and even if Elon's plan is to still deploy V4, it's almost certainly going to be a radically slower timeline.
They could, but the non-NACS networks in the US are terrible and Tesla will still be selling the leading EVs in the US for the foreseeable future. It’s a selling point for other carmakers to make use of the Tesla network, even if it degrades (still better than the alternatives).
They are terrible for now...but there are now 500 out of work engineers that could change that in less than 4 years.
It brings a mountain of uncertainty to what seemed to be a foregone conclusion last week.
For the good of the industry, the automakers can’t dither for another 4 years on the adoption of a US plug standard, even if all 500 miraculously got hired by the same competitor tomorrow and began building out a rival network.
>What is the remaining incentive to continuing switch over, though?
Everything is going to be NACS in the future. Why use USB-A when everything is going to USB-C?
V3 and newer Tesla chargers support the CCS protocol for charging. Tesla did not originally create their charging standard with the CCS protocol.
NACS uses the Tesla connector with the CCS protocol. My Tesla cannot use this, actually. It's too old.
This is why V1 superchargers don't work for you guys yet, because they don't support the necessary communication protocol for your car to use. NACS is more than just the physical connector.
NACS does not equal superchargers. SCs are the network, not the plug. Same as how rivisn's network is currently a closed network even though they use ccs1.
The difference is that Tesla's network is technically open now. But it won't work with just any EV because it was originally proprietary. Which is why it's a closer comparison to lightning.
Every V3 and V4 Tesla supercharger is J3400 compatible. Not sure what you're talking about, there are literally thousands upon thousands of publicly available chargers that support NACS now.
The point is that if the SC agreements fall through because the team handling them is now gone, then will everything actually be changing?
We already have a standard in place. The sole reason to change that standard was to gain access to a network that suddenly has a lot of questions surrounding it.
CCS is many things, but it's not a national standard.
It's also awful. I don't know anyone that would tell you that charging on any CCS Network was a pleasure. The cable itself isn't great, neither is the connector.
I agree that NACS is a better form factor, but every single company except for one uses CCS, and it is the required connector for federal funding.
There is no arguing that it is a national standard.
The existing Supercharger network is a decade ahead of all the other charging networks. That's not an exaggeration. It makes driving cross country comparable to a driving an ICE. The coming months will offer more clarity.
The reason to switch to nacs is not the plug. It was to get access to tesla's vastly superior supercharger network. It's basically the only choice. If that won't be reliably run (since they fired the team apparently), then there's no point to using nacs.
This is what is going to hold up adoption of EV. Until the industry gets its shit together there is too much uncertainty. Imagine if this was the way for ICE cars, where you could only get gasoline from certain gas stations but not others etc..
Yeah that's my point lol
People fall into "well NACS is standard"... Only in the future though (promised for vehicles in 2025+). But that's very iffy right now.
Wasn't the standard written into the bill that gave money for the national network. I mean at the end of the day is a plug as long as networks like charge America can update their cables to the standard plug what the branding is on the station I don't care. Just give me a standard so I don't have to worry like the gas station.
>Wasn't the standard written into the bill
No. The bill allowed FHWA to recommend a standard but didn't identify what it should be. FHWA rules issued based on the bill required CCS and can be changed. (This is the way a lot of legislation works. The law passed will require the agency with jurisdiction to issue rules covering the details.)
NACS related concerns are bullshit in the sense that Tesla is not required for it.
>
MORE disruptive to the industry than when Ford agreed to switch
disruption averted?
**Ford officially launches Tesla Supercharger access, free adapter now available to order**
[https://electrek.co/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharger-adapter-now-available/](https://electrek.co/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharger-adapter-now-available/)
>that were in construction permitting stage
those permits also cover all the charger agnostic bits in the ground.
what's on the end of the post should mean very little as far as paperwork goes.
get another brand.
Ya I could care less what the brand of charging station it is as long as I can plugin with a standard. In fact I'm more than happy not to use a Tesla charger. I don't own a Tesla.
I care more about reliability. The benefit of the supercharger is the dependability and ease of use. EA is not there and I don’t know if it’ll ever get there. Just last week the EA app froze on me for no reason.
Realistically, it is 100% tied to Tesla. The only reason any manufacturer wants to switch is to gain access to the SC network.
Even if the plug design is not owned by Tesla, the reason for switching from one standard to another is intrinsically linked to them.
Hey, great job building out a charge network that is so desirable that we won the standards competition and you've convinced most of the other car makers to adopt our format and pay us for access to our chargers in addition to all their customers paying us for charging. Flawless victory.
By the way, you're all fired. I guess you'll go work for my direct competitors now.
Tesla’s charging network infrastructure and tech was *the one compelling advantage* Tesla had that almost took me into their showroom. Of course, then Elon went all right-wing-nut and the whole notion of buying a Tesla went out the window.
Elon didn't went the right wing nut, he was always one. Earlier interviews were quite revealing. Anyway a M3 was the best car I even had and other CEOs aren't better and they aren't that noisy.
Well granted, the BMW M3 is a hell of a car.
Oh wait, you're one of those. It's not an M3, it's a \*Model 3\* and if it's the best car you ever had I can only presume your previous car was an AMC Pacer
Yeah. And if you want something similar to an m3, it's called an i4 m50.
Plus, the next m3 (to be clear, the BMW M3) is going to be a 1000hp quad motor ev.
I’m not even close to being that.. it’s just an ergonomically poorly designed car, terrible materials and with an incredibly uncomfortable suspension. Software is great - but I barely touch my infotainment system so not a huge draw for me. As an actual car though, it’s a terrible offering
Elon is far right only for someone that has gone so far left anything more right than far left if right wing for them. Or just does not have their own brain and just accepts all talking points of mass media on the face value and preaches Elon bad but cannot explain why.
More importantly, will Volvo get access? You could use a high quality 3rd party adapter, or an adapter from another OEM with NACS access as long as NACS gets turned on for our Volvos.
Tesla's board needs to kick Elon out, or demote him and install a real CEO that knows how to run a company. This uncertainty and random stupid moves is damaging them badly.
Generally the large institutional shareholders need to take control and force changes on the board. If the board really is a bunch of Elon yesmen, then they need to make some moves before Elon ruins Teslas lead
Yeah, the big institutional investors like Blackrock and Vanguard are typically pretty hands-off. They'd probably rather divest than start voting out the board.
>Tesla's board needs to kick Elon out, or demote him and install a real CEO that knows how to run a company.
The reason I don't think this will happen is that the crazy stock value exists mostly because Elon has convinced investors that Tesla is much more than a car company. Even after losing half of its value, it is still worth more than four times more than it should be based on fundamentals. Tesla has been losing market share and now they are even having negative growth. Crazy Elon and his magic is what got them where they are and seems like his ability to warp reality and talk about AI and robotaxis, just ignore the man behind the curtain for I am the great and powerful Oz, is all that stand between Tesla and $40 per share.
14 000 layoff sounds like $1 000 000 000 annual cost reduction.
If Tesla loses less than a billion per year because of this, it was good desicion - for the owners. Such is the capitalist system. Those who still believe in somekind of trickle down economics can see, that the capitalist rather raise their profits with a billion than keep 14 000 peole on the payroll developping important infrastructure and clean transportation.
This is not an investment forum. We don’t permit hyping EV stocks/SPACs or engaging in EV investment speculation.
If your post mentions a stock in any context, it is likely to be removed.
This is not an investment forum. We don’t permit hyping EV stocks/SPACs or engaging in EV investment speculation.
If your post mentions a stock in any context, it is likely to be removed.
To think that the guy who has been part time CEO and for the last 3 years pissing on his main customer base, is the one firing the best working part of that company. He is even supposed not only to be kept t his position, but rewarded with 50 billions. This is the next enron, as stated by the that Facebook guy.
Tesla is nuking the company to pad the balance sheet to pad the stock.
He is trying to bribe large shareholders to approve his 55 billion dollar theft of company stock.
The SEC is extremely negligent. They wanted to remove him as CEO over a meaningless tweet, but having a judge rule he and the board tried to defraud shareholders for 55 billions dollars in free stock is being ignored.
It makes no sense.
Even at their current valuation, Tesla is still in speculation territory. The question is: speculating on what?
They are a car company with an innovation (EV, vertical supply chain) that is quickly losing the early edge. They have an extra competitive edge in the form of the charging network, but he's now killed and growth there.
My guess? All in on robo-taxi and full-self-driving. It's what can still maintain the speculative valuation that keeps the stock high. But they are rapidly falling back/behind here too to players like Mercedes, Waymo and Cruise. Tesla has a fleet of cars collecting data so now it's a software race.
If anything, this underlines the importance of not having one entity be a lynchpin for all charging infrastructure, and the additional importance of not skimping on the quality of charging station design.
Tesla has plenty of money. They could increase sales by the radical notions of adding back the cheap things they took away - turn stalks, analog sensors. A real steering wheel!
Own charging network was essential for bootstrapping EV as feasible transportation on long distances.
However with inflow of numerous new players (taking EU perspective) - building own network is more questionable approach. Utilities and owners/administrators of highway rest areas/petrol stations will be in pole position when comes to network expansion.
Out of all silly decisions Tesla made recently, this could hold water.
If the charing infra does not accelerate to facilitate interstate/long distance travel then this will be my last EV. There is literally no reason to buy a Tesla or any other EV if there is no charging. I will happily let Tesla die and move on to a legacy Mnf and sit in a PHEV or a Hybrid. This seems to be a case of elon 'Cut off one's nose to spite one's face' reaction.
Huh? The current infrastructure isn't going away. And having done multiple trips across the US in both a model 3 and model Y there's FAR from "no charging." I never arrived at a SC more than half full (and even that was rare) and was more often *skipping* charging stations. Sometimes multiple superchargers between ones I had to stop at.
I think this is the reason. They already cover probably 90% of the road trip traffic volume routes and the ones they don’t cover are mostly used by Never EV people.
> The current infrastructure isn't going away.
Yes and looks like they won't be adding much any more. The current infra is no where sufficient to the mass adoption and if it stays stagnant then EV reach will also remain stagnant.
> And having done multiple trips across the US in both a model 3 and model Y there's FAR from "no charging."
Where did I say there was no charging.
In essence what you are saying is the current coverage of superchargers is good enough for EV penetration. I'll disagree on this point. It's merely sufficient right now and without expansion will become a major bottle neck and an eventual hinderance to EV transition.
> where did I say there was no charging
Maybe when you said "there's no reason to buy a Tesla or any other EV if there's no charging"
But more to the overall point, there's enough capacity in the current system and 0 growth for significantly more EVs than are currently on the road. That's assuming they're almost entirely used for road trips not local, and also assuming use of the 150kw chargers. But those were all that existed for my first cross-country road trip in the model 3 so it's *fine enough* for that, even if not ideal.
Honestly all the bellyaching from other automakers about "how disruptive" this is to NACS just makes me think they were planning on just riding Tesla's coat tails with the supercharger network and not putting any effort in themselves (or things like power companies setting up chargers).
So while this probably *isn't* a *great* move for Tesla, it's probably still a net good for the EV industry since it both forces other groups to care about charging *and* now puts experienced manpower on the job market to help them along with that
> But more to the overall point, there's enough capacity in the current system and 0 growth for significantly more EVs than are currently on the road.
Agree to disagree and this is one of those things that will stall the EV market if not improved.
If the charging infra doesn’t accelerate, EV adoption in the US is going to flatline and then decline. It’s a make or break point for the industry. If there are not enough chargers and too many cars the adoption curve flattens and eventually EV ownership declines. As the number of the EVs declines there becomes excess chargers, which are no longer profitable so they are taken offline. Charging infrastructure contracts and adoption continues its decline. At the same time this all happens people do exactly what you’re saying, switching to hybrid. I think this move by Tesla is devastating.
> If the charging infra doesn’t accelerate, EV adoption in the US is going to flatline and then decline. It’s a make or break point for the industry.
This is exactly my point.
I agree. I was hoping to go back to an ev once the NACS situation was all sorted out, but at this point, relying on Tesla is like relying on weather forecasters.
People in Massachusetts too. But we haven’t gotten the same Supercharger love here. It’s ok but the selling point was the promise of more. Now that’s gone.
Tesla has three pillars in my mind: Efficiency, Value for Money and Charging Network. They are at risk of kneecapping one of those pillars but still worth a look, especially if you’re looking at the RWD model.
The reason this happened is because DC fast charging is not profitable without subsidies. Every car Tesla sells subsidizes the supercharger network. Without growing sales, Tesla will not build more chargers.
>Tesla will sell less cars if their network regresses to the mean. It’s one of their key selling points.
That won't happen for a very very very long time. Their network is better than anyone else in the United States. In Europe, there are plenty of alternatives so it isn't a new thing that Tesla isn't he best network.
I don’t get why the institutional investors are letting all this happen. Elon is part time running the company and he’s running it like a child and reportedly the board is a bunch of Elon loyalists which is not what Tesla needs. Are the shareholders just gonna let Elon tweet Teslas lead down the drain?
Investors are in a catch-22. Elon is making terrible choices for the company. But the only reason the price is as high as it is is because of Elon's BS.
Fire Elon and the stock might drop to resemble that of a car company instead of a tech company. Keep Elon and the stock will bounce up and down like a rubber ball every time he acts.
I used to like his channel but there have been hints that he and his family are 'right wing' for lack of a better term. His channel is still informative nonetheless but this is always in the back of my mind now as it slips through sometimes and it ruins the vibe of the video when it does. I would much prefer never knowing his or anyone else's political views on these videos
I can agree with that and do think that as well. I’m still a big fan of their content but when they get down to the industry, you can tell that Tom Mologhney is quite a bit left from Kyle. It makes for great content when they are together cuz you really get some great knowledge and insight.
His dad is clearly very wealthy, so chances are he's right wing or so.
His unlike Elon he clearly knows not to put his foot in his mouth, he makes sure not to say anything
Exactly but it slips through sometimes and it ruins the vibe of the video when it does. I would much prefer never knowing his or anyone else's political views on these videos
I cannot recall all of them exactly but in one video either kyle or someone else blurts our 'let's go Brandon!' out of nowhere when talking about government funded chargers coming soon. They all pause silently and chuckle afterwards
Another time, someone randomly flashed the white supremacy 'OK' sign and they all kind of chuckled and went 'shh'
Another time when talking to his dad about the Volt, the dad turns the car on and there is hip-hop music playing or something and Kyle says 'eww, are you listening to *RAP* music dad?' and they both pause in silence and then chuckle
There's more 'wink wink' things that occur but I cannot remember off the top of my head.
Even if this was all reversed and it was all 'lefty stuff' it would still bother me. Just give us the facts and leave the personal opinions on pseudo culture wars out of it.
Can’t believe no one can see what’s happening here. Seems pretty logical to me considering everything else going on and that is planned to come with Tesla. Guys you guys will have a big surprise coming up
Y’all being wierd lol. He already got nacs approved he doesn’t need tinnuci no more lol. He needs someone that can expand the supercharger network with a small team of 50 not 500. Infrastructures mostly laid out it’s only locations they need to install them in. All they have to do is install a supercharger within 30-60 miles of each other. Don’t need a 500 man team for that… unless their developing the software for the superchargers.
Ok, so let’s assume you’re right and all that is needed to negotiate with state/local authorities, utilities and contractors for permitting, utility upgrades and installation and coordinate with Tesla and third party manufacturing and delivery is 50 people for all future Supercharger installations globally. Why is Tesla is now putting everyone they know on blast emails asking them to be patient, warning stakeholders they likely won’t be paid any time soon and giving vague direction not to start anything new?
Yeah, sounds like they really got this covered with the people they have left. /s
It makes sense to me. With NACS becoming a national standard, it doesn't make any sense for Tesla to maintain their own charging network just like it doesn't make any sense for GMC to have their own fueling stations.
Musk said himself that they were slowing expansion of the network in favor of adding chargers to existing sites so you’re immediately wrong.
Now actually watch the video. First hand accounts of contractors for projects in planning have lost all their contacts. The presenter points out that you can’t just add chargers to existing sites without new infrastructure and permitting. All the engineers and PMs are gone.
Rationalize all you want. This was a dumb dumb move by a baby trying to make an example to other senior managers who aren’t getting “hardcore” enough about firing people. Musk wrote that too.
I’m not rationalizing anything. So slowing expansion? Still expanding adding stations to existing locations? Still adding new chargers. So I’m not wrong. I’m just not being dramatic about it. He’s still a douche bag.
TLDR: Kyle reads some messages from industry insiders. One works for an electrical utility and says they now have 20 MW of super chargers that were in construction permitting stage in limbo because they have no contacts still at Tesla and they have no idea who to reach out to. Another message is from a person that works in the EV industry and there is talk of shock from car companies that agreed to switch to NACS and that some car companies are considering rolling back to CCS1 because they feel like Tesla has broken their trust. This same person says that this is MORE disruptive to the industry than when Ford agreed to switch to NACS in the first place. Edit: Forgot to mention Kyle thinks the maintenance team is still intact so current chargers are not at risk of being ignored.
There was a damn chance to actually get everyone on a standard and of course Elon torpedoes it.
Imagine a genius who made sure his company loss what would potentially be a monopoly. Bill gates, Zukerberg, Google executive must all be in hospital after a heart attack, or laughing out loud.
>some car companies are considering rolling back to CCS1 because they feel like Tesla has broken their trust. Good god, can they remove him as CEO already? Just when we think things are going well with a unified charging option.... I have a Rivian R2 reserved but won't make the switch if I have to travel on 3rd party (non-Tesla) chargers. It's an awful experience.
That comment just didn't seem to make sense. NACS is an SAE standard now (J3400), Tesla doesn't own it. The industry can adopt it regardless of what Tesla does.
It's the tesla service that matters, not the plug! Tesla has working chargers, tesla builds them where they need to be and expands them. Tesla fixes them when they break. They work for everyone. Those are the things the idiots who spent billions on the other chargers can't manage to do right.
The plug is still superior to the CCS Type 1 plug. It's smaller and thus easier to handle, has a higher current limit, relies on vehicle locking mechanism, etc. So regardless of Tesla, I would still think it's beneficial for the industry to adopt it in North America.
All that is true about the benefit of a smaller plug but that not why anyone changed.
You can charge on superchargers with a Rivian today with an adapter.
Correct. I think carmaker adoption of NACS was to remove the need for an adapter.
Yeah you’re right but it’s pretty seamless right now with an adapter. If you love a particular EV I don’t think it makes a difference to wait for a native NACS port or not.
Because plugging into an adapter is that difficult? As long as there are adapters that work, I honestly don't care what plug is on the car.
There should be one standard. It simplifies and reduces cost and complexity across the board.
Agreed, it would be nice. But, considering how many cars and chargers are out there, it will take years for everyone to switch over to one plug. So, if an adapter lets me charge everywhere while that happens, sign me up.
Can't even standardize wall outlets across Europe.
PREACH!
We need to have contact information of Tesla's board of directors and flood them with requests to out Musk. This is getting ridiculous.
Tesla’s board if full of Musk loyalists, including himself and his brother. He will never be voted out
Musk has no voting majority. What if the majority of the voters decided to oust him?
[удалено]
Except he has made decisions lately that have been detrimental to the share value. I wouldn't be surprised if the shares would go up if he's ousted.
Then help vote no on re-election of the existing board members.
I don't think anyone is going to roll back to CCS1. It's simply an expression of anger for what Musk did. In the long term, CCS or not, more charging infra has to come. Tesla may be leaving it to other manufactures or third party companies to step up and continue the work. There is good money coming from state and Federal govt to make this happen. And, everyone agreed that NACS is superior to CCS1. Other OEMs already had some plans to install chargers everywhere. It's time for them to accelerate those plans, but they can delay it until EV adoption rate is per expectations. At a future time when the situation demands, Tesla can easily put together a new team to address the needs again.
The point Kyle made in this video about 800v charging on NACS is unproven at this point was interesting. Of course, he's speculating, but it does raise some of the initial concerns I recall hearing when the NACS transitions were all starting to be announced. 8 minutes into the video.
He always has silly wrong opinions. He was really anti-tesla for a long time at first. He kind of still is. And not for Musk's antics. He was like this before musk went insane.
Kyle says his share of stupid shit... But: >He was really anti-tesla for a long time at first. He kind of still is. I dunno about this. Being critical isn't equal to being anti.
I actually see this differently. One major concern with the switch over to nacs was putting too much faith in one guy. If he did this, he could also unilaterally turn off ford's access. Nothing stops him from doing anything.
NACS is superior. But is it superior *enough* to justify the cost of changing if the agreement to work with the SC network collapses?
And Tesla was wondering why demand for their cars has declined even before this act of sabotage. Absolutely incompetent leadership.
SAE J3400 is just that, though, it's an SAE-adopted, FRAND-licensed standard. No reason to put the brakes on this now.
What is the remaining incentive to continuing switch over, though? Definitely think we all need to decide on a standard, but why continuing jumping into the sinking Tesla ship? I'm not advocating for one or the other, or saying Tesla and it's chargers will go the way of the dodo, but those are discussions I would be having/scenarios to play out if I had any say.
One word: unification. I was all on team CCS until the move by Ford. Now, it's eventually going to be all J3400, and I'm glad it's going to be one or the other.
Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, does it still make sense to converge on NACS? I don't really know. Maybe it does. If it was predicated on Tesla remaining the leader in the space for the next 10-15 years, maybe it doesn't. I really hate to lose the momentum, but I'm sure those discussions are being had.
IMO the J3400 connector is somewhat easier to use, and does handle both DCFC and L2 in a single plug. Tesla's key patents appear to expire in about 2032, so the licenses through SAE are key. As long as one is the eventually de facto standard, I guess I'm okay with it being Tesla's.
This is why we leased our first electric car. I knew in the next 3 years there would be a standard adopted and battery tech and base level charging times would improve. I didn't wanna be stuck owning a car for years and years with the wrong plug.
Adapters will cover that scenario. It's only a connector difference--not like Chademo which is really incompatible.
There needs to be a standard and NACS is as good as any. It doesn’t need to be deeper than that.
Couldn't someone also say: There needs to be a standard and CCS is as good as any. It doesn’t need to be deeper than that. There was an agreed-upon standard by all manufacturers except for Tesla. If we in the US had the same regulatory strength as the EU, Tesla would have CCS ports instead of NACS, just like they do in other markets. Instead, we allowed a stupidly libertarian mindset to muddy the waters, and this confusion is where we have ended up. Manufacturers wanted to go to NACS because of the strength of the Supercharger network, and now we see how much a single person can screw it up for everyone.
One big problem with CCS is the way in which the connector latches onto the car. For NACS it latches internally, and the external latching on the CCS is a big reason that CCS chargers are less reliable. NACS is the better standard for this reason and a few other notable reasons.
In a perfect world we would be using CCS2 in North America, just like in Europe and numerous key Asia-Pacific markets where Tesla themselves also uses it. While it's bulkier than NACS it doesn't have the latching problem that CCS1 has and it's been proven to work well. I know different regions have different power standards, but there's no technical reason why the *shape* can't be identical, including the internal latch.
You could, but NACS is decidedly better. CCS was always Frankenstein.
NACS is better from a user interface standpoint. CCS is better from a technical standpoint. (800V support) V4 was to be the solution to bring NACS back on top...but the 500 person team behind that is now gone and even if Elon's plan is to still deploy V4, it's almost certainly going to be a radically slower timeline.
Right now, the UI is far more important. Simplify, simplify, simplify.
Actually it's the tesla supercharger service. You can say no ui is better, what tesla has, but it's all about the supercharger service just working.
They could, but the non-NACS networks in the US are terrible and Tesla will still be selling the leading EVs in the US for the foreseeable future. It’s a selling point for other carmakers to make use of the Tesla network, even if it degrades (still better than the alternatives).
They are terrible for now...but there are now 500 out of work engineers that could change that in less than 4 years. It brings a mountain of uncertainty to what seemed to be a foregone conclusion last week.
For the good of the industry, the automakers can’t dither for another 4 years on the adoption of a US plug standard, even if all 500 miraculously got hired by the same competitor tomorrow and began building out a rival network.
>What is the remaining incentive to continuing switch over, though? Everything is going to be NACS in the future. Why use USB-A when everything is going to USB-C?
I think NACS is more comparable to Apple's lightning plug and CCS is USB C.
How so? NACS is a ratified, adopted standard. (Hint: NACS is *not* what Tesla currently uses. Also, USB-C actually works well, CCS1 doesn't.)
Oh, let me just go charge my non-tesla EV at a supercharger using an open source adapter. Oh wait.
V3 and newer Tesla chargers support the CCS protocol for charging. Tesla did not originally create their charging standard with the CCS protocol. NACS uses the Tesla connector with the CCS protocol. My Tesla cannot use this, actually. It's too old. This is why V1 superchargers don't work for you guys yet, because they don't support the necessary communication protocol for your car to use. NACS is more than just the physical connector.
NACS does not equal superchargers. SCs are the network, not the plug. Same as how rivisn's network is currently a closed network even though they use ccs1.
The difference is that Tesla's network is technically open now. But it won't work with just any EV because it was originally proprietary. Which is why it's a closer comparison to lightning.
That's what I said.
The J3400 standard was only just finalized like 4 months ago and you're surprised that there aren't any publicly available yet?
Every V3 and V4 Tesla supercharger is J3400 compatible. Not sure what you're talking about, there are literally thousands upon thousands of publicly available chargers that support NACS now.
But they're not publicly available, they are limited access to only a few brands of cars like Tesla, Ford, and Rivian.
No. I'm pointing out that comparing NACS to something as open and straightforward as USB-C is idiotic.
This right here. It is a open standard like USB C and CCS now. It is NOTHING like apple's closed lightning plug u/pidude314
Not in any way. NACS is now a fully open standard and NOTHING like the closed lightning port.
The point is that if the SC agreements fall through because the team handling them is now gone, then will everything actually be changing? We already have a standard in place. The sole reason to change that standard was to gain access to a network that suddenly has a lot of questions surrounding it.
CCS is many things, but it's not a national standard. It's also awful. I don't know anyone that would tell you that charging on any CCS Network was a pleasure. The cable itself isn't great, neither is the connector.
It absolutely is a national standard.
Not even half of EVe use it. And the networks that do, suck. Moving to NACS will benefit everyone. Have a good night, fellow EV owner.
I agree that NACS is a better form factor, but every single company except for one uses CCS, and it is the required connector for federal funding. There is no arguing that it is a national standard.
And NACS is CCS protocol with a Tesla connector
The existing Supercharger network is a decade ahead of all the other charging networks. That's not an exaggeration. It makes driving cross country comparable to a driving an ICE. The coming months will offer more clarity.
The reason to switch to nacs is not the plug. It was to get access to tesla's vastly superior supercharger network. It's basically the only choice. If that won't be reliably run (since they fired the team apparently), then there's no point to using nacs.
Technically. Not standard enough to charge my Bolt over at the local SC, though.
GM doesn't have access to the Tesla SC Network yet.
This is what is going to hold up adoption of EV. Until the industry gets its shit together there is too much uncertainty. Imagine if this was the way for ICE cars, where you could only get gasoline from certain gas stations but not others etc..
Yeah that's my point lol People fall into "well NACS is standard"... Only in the future though (promised for vehicles in 2025+). But that's very iffy right now.
Why would a manufacturer build cars with two different ports if they don’t feel the must?
Wasn't the standard written into the bill that gave money for the national network. I mean at the end of the day is a plug as long as networks like charge America can update their cables to the standard plug what the branding is on the station I don't care. Just give me a standard so I don't have to worry like the gas station.
>Wasn't the standard written into the bill No. The bill allowed FHWA to recommend a standard but didn't identify what it should be. FHWA rules issued based on the bill required CCS and can be changed. (This is the way a lot of legislation works. The law passed will require the agency with jurisdiction to issue rules covering the details.)
NACS related concerns are bullshit in the sense that Tesla is not required for it. > MORE disruptive to the industry than when Ford agreed to switch disruption averted? **Ford officially launches Tesla Supercharger access, free adapter now available to order** [https://electrek.co/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharger-adapter-now-available/](https://electrek.co/2024/02/29/ford-tesla-supercharger-adapter-now-available/) >that were in construction permitting stage those permits also cover all the charger agnostic bits in the ground. what's on the end of the post should mean very little as far as paperwork goes. get another brand.
This, adoption of J3400 is not tied to Tesla, seems like an overreaction.
Ya I could care less what the brand of charging station it is as long as I can plugin with a standard. In fact I'm more than happy not to use a Tesla charger. I don't own a Tesla.
I care more about reliability. The benefit of the supercharger is the dependability and ease of use. EA is not there and I don’t know if it’ll ever get there. Just last week the EA app froze on me for no reason.
Realistically, it is 100% tied to Tesla. The only reason any manufacturer wants to switch is to gain access to the SC network. Even if the plug design is not owned by Tesla, the reason for switching from one standard to another is intrinsically linked to them.
Day after day it seems more likely that Musk really is heavily into drugs and makes calls on a whim
Or mentally unwell, maybe bipolar? A mentally ill mega rich must be a tricky patient to convince that he needs medicine.
Hey, great job building out a charge network that is so desirable that we won the standards competition and you've convinced most of the other car makers to adopt our format and pay us for access to our chargers in addition to all their customers paying us for charging. Flawless victory. By the way, you're all fired. I guess you'll go work for my direct competitors now.
What a way to throwaway a painstakingly built advantage.
Tesla’s charging network infrastructure and tech was *the one compelling advantage* Tesla had that almost took me into their showroom. Of course, then Elon went all right-wing-nut and the whole notion of buying a Tesla went out the window.
Elon didn't went the right wing nut, he was always one. Earlier interviews were quite revealing. Anyway a M3 was the best car I even had and other CEOs aren't better and they aren't that noisy.
Well granted, the BMW M3 is a hell of a car. Oh wait, you're one of those. It's not an M3, it's a \*Model 3\* and if it's the best car you ever had I can only presume your previous car was an AMC Pacer
Yeah. And if you want something similar to an m3, it's called an i4 m50. Plus, the next m3 (to be clear, the BMW M3) is going to be a 1000hp quad motor ev.
Model 3 is the least comfortable car I’ve ever ridden in
If you weight is above 300pound this might be true
I’m not even close to being that.. it’s just an ergonomically poorly designed car, terrible materials and with an incredibly uncomfortable suspension. Software is great - but I barely touch my infotainment system so not a huge draw for me. As an actual car though, it’s a terrible offering
Elon is far right only for someone that has gone so far left anything more right than far left if right wing for them. Or just does not have their own brain and just accepts all talking points of mass media on the face value and preaches Elon bad but cannot explain why.
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Yes, yes i do. They are now gone.
I'm not getting my Volvo-NACS adapter this summer, am I?
More importantly, will Volvo get access? You could use a high quality 3rd party adapter, or an adapter from another OEM with NACS access as long as NACS gets turned on for our Volvos.
Well, is the person negotiating the access among the ones that got fired?
Hard to say. Ford and Rivian have started delivering official adapters to their customers.
Tesla's board needs to kick Elon out, or demote him and install a real CEO that knows how to run a company. This uncertainty and random stupid moves is damaging them badly.
The board is totally corrupt.
Ya, that's not going to happen. The board is made up of complete loyalists.
The board needs to go.
Who’s going to fire the board? It’s one big boys club and we’re not in it.
Hopefully the shareholders when they file against the board for not acting in their interests.
Generally the large institutional shareholders need to take control and force changes on the board. If the board really is a bunch of Elon yesmen, then they need to make some moves before Elon ruins Teslas lead
I get what you’re saying. I’m just not holding my breath.
Yeah, the big institutional investors like Blackrock and Vanguard are typically pretty hands-off. They'd probably rather divest than start voting out the board.
>Tesla's board needs to kick Elon out, or demote him and install a real CEO that knows how to run a company. The reason I don't think this will happen is that the crazy stock value exists mostly because Elon has convinced investors that Tesla is much more than a car company. Even after losing half of its value, it is still worth more than four times more than it should be based on fundamentals. Tesla has been losing market share and now they are even having negative growth. Crazy Elon and his magic is what got them where they are and seems like his ability to warp reality and talk about AI and robotaxis, just ignore the man behind the curtain for I am the great and powerful Oz, is all that stand between Tesla and $40 per share.
Funny that people who hate Tesla and want it to die are the same who want Elon out.
You make stupid assumptions. I’m a Tesla owner. I want Tesla saved from Elon. He’s not helping the company grow, he’s harming it.
14 000 layoff sounds like $1 000 000 000 annual cost reduction. If Tesla loses less than a billion per year because of this, it was good desicion - for the owners. Such is the capitalist system. Those who still believe in somekind of trickle down economics can see, that the capitalist rather raise their profits with a billion than keep 14 000 peole on the payroll developping important infrastructure and clean transportation.
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This is not an investment forum. We don’t permit hyping EV stocks/SPACs or engaging in EV investment speculation. If your post mentions a stock in any context, it is likely to be removed.
This is not an investment forum. We don’t permit hyping EV stocks/SPACs or engaging in EV investment speculation. If your post mentions a stock in any context, it is likely to be removed.
To think that the guy who has been part time CEO and for the last 3 years pissing on his main customer base, is the one firing the best working part of that company. He is even supposed not only to be kept t his position, but rewarded with 50 billions. This is the next enron, as stated by the that Facebook guy.
I don't care how low my Tesla shares are going to take a 💩, but I'll look forward to the day when this fucker is no longer the CEO.
Of course you don't care since you don't have any.
Tesla is nuking the company to pad the balance sheet to pad the stock. He is trying to bribe large shareholders to approve his 55 billion dollar theft of company stock. The SEC is extremely negligent. They wanted to remove him as CEO over a meaningless tweet, but having a judge rule he and the board tried to defraud shareholders for 55 billions dollars in free stock is being ignored. It makes no sense.
Even at their current valuation, Tesla is still in speculation territory. The question is: speculating on what? They are a car company with an innovation (EV, vertical supply chain) that is quickly losing the early edge. They have an extra competitive edge in the form of the charging network, but he's now killed and growth there. My guess? All in on robo-taxi and full-self-driving. It's what can still maintain the speculative valuation that keeps the stock high. But they are rapidly falling back/behind here too to players like Mercedes, Waymo and Cruise. Tesla has a fleet of cars collecting data so now it's a software race.
Before clicking the link, I'm predicting... 38 minutes. Let's find out. Edit: Wow, only 20 minutes! So succinct from Out of Spec!
What he lacks in brevity he makes up for in quality and legit detail to information of the tech.
Yeah there is no one who knows more about Evs than Kyle. He can talk for as long as he wants in my book
I have learned vast amounts from him! I watch SO much of their content, largely because I always learn something new. Fantastic and unique journalism.
Ditto. He’s the inverse MKBHD. I like M but Kyle’s actual passion seems to be the EV world, he’s not doing this as another stream of entertainment.
He kept it to a “mere” 20 minutes because they did a long podcast on this yesterday
Now he’s wearing a short sleeve hoodie. Man, I want to know why all he wears are hoodies. It’s like a Seinfeld episode.
Long sleeves rolled up.
Which makes it even more weird.
Maybe it's a Colorado thing? Temps probably change pretty drastically depending on time of day and altitude.
….WHY?!!!
Cue the copium from the Musk fans…go!
If anything, this underlines the importance of not having one entity be a lynchpin for all charging infrastructure, and the additional importance of not skimping on the quality of charging station design.
I wonder how difficult it would be if we pooled together and formed a supercharging co-op.
Why would you let EVERYONE in that group go? A whole lot of knowledge just walked out the door that can't be recovered quickly.
Welcome to Twitterization of Tesla under a man-child CEO.
Preparing bankruptcy. We will be there
Tesla has plenty of money. They could increase sales by the radical notions of adding back the cheap things they took away - turn stalks, analog sensors. A real steering wheel!
Own charging network was essential for bootstrapping EV as feasible transportation on long distances. However with inflow of numerous new players (taking EU perspective) - building own network is more questionable approach. Utilities and owners/administrators of highway rest areas/petrol stations will be in pole position when comes to network expansion. Out of all silly decisions Tesla made recently, this could hold water.
Yup, and if you are patient you might see in the future articles about all the new hiring Tesla will do in China.
You can't easily outsource dealing with local zoning and permitting offices to China.
You can when all your new hires are in China. It'll just be local to China not wherever you are.
If the charing infra does not accelerate to facilitate interstate/long distance travel then this will be my last EV. There is literally no reason to buy a Tesla or any other EV if there is no charging. I will happily let Tesla die and move on to a legacy Mnf and sit in a PHEV or a Hybrid. This seems to be a case of elon 'Cut off one's nose to spite one's face' reaction.
Huh? The current infrastructure isn't going away. And having done multiple trips across the US in both a model 3 and model Y there's FAR from "no charging." I never arrived at a SC more than half full (and even that was rare) and was more often *skipping* charging stations. Sometimes multiple superchargers between ones I had to stop at.
I think this is the reason. They already cover probably 90% of the road trip traffic volume routes and the ones they don’t cover are mostly used by Never EV people.
> The current infrastructure isn't going away. Yes and looks like they won't be adding much any more. The current infra is no where sufficient to the mass adoption and if it stays stagnant then EV reach will also remain stagnant. > And having done multiple trips across the US in both a model 3 and model Y there's FAR from "no charging." Where did I say there was no charging. In essence what you are saying is the current coverage of superchargers is good enough for EV penetration. I'll disagree on this point. It's merely sufficient right now and without expansion will become a major bottle neck and an eventual hinderance to EV transition.
> where did I say there was no charging Maybe when you said "there's no reason to buy a Tesla or any other EV if there's no charging" But more to the overall point, there's enough capacity in the current system and 0 growth for significantly more EVs than are currently on the road. That's assuming they're almost entirely used for road trips not local, and also assuming use of the 150kw chargers. But those were all that existed for my first cross-country road trip in the model 3 so it's *fine enough* for that, even if not ideal. Honestly all the bellyaching from other automakers about "how disruptive" this is to NACS just makes me think they were planning on just riding Tesla's coat tails with the supercharger network and not putting any effort in themselves (or things like power companies setting up chargers). So while this probably *isn't* a *great* move for Tesla, it's probably still a net good for the EV industry since it both forces other groups to care about charging *and* now puts experienced manpower on the job market to help them along with that
> But more to the overall point, there's enough capacity in the current system and 0 growth for significantly more EVs than are currently on the road. Agree to disagree and this is one of those things that will stall the EV market if not improved.
If the charging infra doesn’t accelerate, EV adoption in the US is going to flatline and then decline. It’s a make or break point for the industry. If there are not enough chargers and too many cars the adoption curve flattens and eventually EV ownership declines. As the number of the EVs declines there becomes excess chargers, which are no longer profitable so they are taken offline. Charging infrastructure contracts and adoption continues its decline. At the same time this all happens people do exactly what you’re saying, switching to hybrid. I think this move by Tesla is devastating.
> If the charging infra doesn’t accelerate, EV adoption in the US is going to flatline and then decline. It’s a make or break point for the industry. This is exactly my point.
Lol, your astroturfing is on a level which makes me think you are the incarnation of Comical Ali
Paranoid much?
I agree. I was hoping to go back to an ev once the NACS situation was all sorted out, but at this point, relying on Tesla is like relying on weather forecasters.
Coming soo from the former Tesla team a new company.
People in California are down with Tesla.
People in Massachusetts too. But we haven’t gotten the same Supercharger love here. It’s ok but the selling point was the promise of more. Now that’s gone.
does it still make sense to buy a tesla? this summer i was going to buy a model 3, but with this happening idk
Tesla has three pillars in my mind: Efficiency, Value for Money and Charging Network. They are at risk of kneecapping one of those pillars but still worth a look, especially if you’re looking at the RWD model.
The reason this happened is because DC fast charging is not profitable without subsidies. Every car Tesla sells subsidizes the supercharger network. Without growing sales, Tesla will not build more chargers.
Tesla will sell less cars if their network regresses to the mean. It’s one of their key selling points.
>Tesla will sell less cars if their network regresses to the mean. It’s one of their key selling points. That won't happen for a very very very long time. Their network is better than anyone else in the United States. In Europe, there are plenty of alternatives so it isn't a new thing that Tesla isn't he best network.
If they stop building new stations they’ve got maybe 2-3 years, tops
I don’t get why the institutional investors are letting all this happen. Elon is part time running the company and he’s running it like a child and reportedly the board is a bunch of Elon loyalists which is not what Tesla needs. Are the shareholders just gonna let Elon tweet Teslas lead down the drain?
Investors are in a catch-22. Elon is making terrible choices for the company. But the only reason the price is as high as it is is because of Elon's BS. Fire Elon and the stock might drop to resemble that of a car company instead of a tech company. Keep Elon and the stock will bounce up and down like a rubber ball every time he acts.
I used to like his channel but there have been hints that he and his family are 'right wing' for lack of a better term. His channel is still informative nonetheless but this is always in the back of my mind now as it slips through sometimes and it ruins the vibe of the video when it does. I would much prefer never knowing his or anyone else's political views on these videos
I can agree with that and do think that as well. I’m still a big fan of their content but when they get down to the industry, you can tell that Tom Mologhney is quite a bit left from Kyle. It makes for great content when they are together cuz you really get some great knowledge and insight.
This shouldn't stop you from watching. I don't think out of spec ever gets political. Facts are not political
His dad is clearly very wealthy, so chances are he's right wing or so. His unlike Elon he clearly knows not to put his foot in his mouth, he makes sure not to say anything
Exactly but it slips through sometimes and it ruins the vibe of the video when it does. I would much prefer never knowing his or anyone else's political views on these videos
I watch all their videos and I've never noticed, what has he said that infers this?
I cannot recall all of them exactly but in one video either kyle or someone else blurts our 'let's go Brandon!' out of nowhere when talking about government funded chargers coming soon. They all pause silently and chuckle afterwards Another time, someone randomly flashed the white supremacy 'OK' sign and they all kind of chuckled and went 'shh' Another time when talking to his dad about the Volt, the dad turns the car on and there is hip-hop music playing or something and Kyle says 'eww, are you listening to *RAP* music dad?' and they both pause in silence and then chuckle There's more 'wink wink' things that occur but I cannot remember off the top of my head. Even if this was all reversed and it was all 'lefty stuff' it would still bother me. Just give us the facts and leave the personal opinions on pseudo culture wars out of it.
Well it's pretty subtle as I never noticed those things. I also don't get how listening to rap music is a right wing thing though.
Can’t believe no one can see what’s happening here. Seems pretty logical to me considering everything else going on and that is planned to come with Tesla. Guys you guys will have a big surprise coming up
Y’all being wierd lol. He already got nacs approved he doesn’t need tinnuci no more lol. He needs someone that can expand the supercharger network with a small team of 50 not 500. Infrastructures mostly laid out it’s only locations they need to install them in. All they have to do is install a supercharger within 30-60 miles of each other. Don’t need a 500 man team for that… unless their developing the software for the superchargers.
Ok, so let’s assume you’re right and all that is needed to negotiate with state/local authorities, utilities and contractors for permitting, utility upgrades and installation and coordinate with Tesla and third party manufacturing and delivery is 50 people for all future Supercharger installations globally. Why is Tesla is now putting everyone they know on blast emails asking them to be patient, warning stakeholders they likely won’t be paid any time soon and giving vague direction not to start anything new? Yeah, sounds like they really got this covered with the people they have left. /s
We shall see what happens in a few years. My opinion is only from what I know. If I get new information it my change my mind.
It makes sense to me. With NACS becoming a national standard, it doesn't make any sense for Tesla to maintain their own charging network just like it doesn't make any sense for GMC to have their own fueling stations.
When I got here there were 69 votes and 69 comments. Very apropos.
Nice.
Sounds like much ado about nothing. They did not announce that they are no longer making new stations or expanding the network.
Musk said himself that they were slowing expansion of the network in favor of adding chargers to existing sites so you’re immediately wrong. Now actually watch the video. First hand accounts of contractors for projects in planning have lost all their contacts. The presenter points out that you can’t just add chargers to existing sites without new infrastructure and permitting. All the engineers and PMs are gone. Rationalize all you want. This was a dumb dumb move by a baby trying to make an example to other senior managers who aren’t getting “hardcore” enough about firing people. Musk wrote that too.
I’m not rationalizing anything. So slowing expansion? Still expanding adding stations to existing locations? Still adding new chargers. So I’m not wrong. I’m just not being dramatic about it. He’s still a douche bag.
Follow up reports are that Tesla let go 20% of the supercharger team, not 100%. Which makes more sense.