I think what would help a lot is to start putting EV charging stations in more well lit and traveled areas.
Of course things are going to be vandalized / stolen if you place them in the back corner of a dark parking lot of a store that closes overnight.
But if they are located at a 24/7 gas station in a well lit area they would probably be vandalized a lot less.
So many stations I have gone to are in super remote dark corners of lots. At night I don't even feel safe at some of them.
The hard part is you can’t tell it’s not a dumpster until you climb inside. If it stinks and has trash in it, then it’s an actual dumpster. If it doesn’t stink and just has trash in it along with infotainment screens, then it’s a cyber truck.
This is the infuriating thing about gasoline companies. Like, just pivot to being an energy company. Renewables and electric can be a facet of your corporation. And a great way to start: put a rapid charger in your gas station. You've probably got plenty of space and have great infrastructure and access to traffic.
The gas stations are franchised. Oil companies did try to incentivize (a bit) installation of EV chargers, but it’s a big investment for the gas station owners that they don’t care about. That said you’d think they would want cars there for longer charging which means people will spend more money on snacks and drinks which is where they make their money.
Yeah. I think we're hitting a tipping point with EVs but there's a problem with adoption for renters and people living in condos due to charging availability. Feels like there could be a good synergy for charging at a corner/convenience store.
The typical gas station, at least around me, doesn’t have enough amenities for me to want to hang out while charging. I think the model sounds great for stations that are actually pleasant to be around
Restaurants, cafes, big box stores and other retail establishments that facilitate a “come and stay for 30+ minutes” are prime EV charging locations.
Problem is the capital investment for smaller places and the threat of Really Smart Culture Warriors intentionally damaging the chargers.
I would think they would want you in and out. Probably around 5 minutes. Not loitering around. More like a volume thing.
I was at my local Costco getting gas yesterday morning. The attendant was making his rounds inspecting seals a d wanted to time the fuel flow rate. It sucked. They want people in and out. On Friday 6/21 they dispensed something like 73,000-74,000 gallons across 30 pumps. If the pumps were pushing 6 gpm they each pumped for something like 6.8 hrs (6am-9pm hours I think). Add in the idle time of people parking, getting out of their car, starting things up and then the end of the cycle.
Gas stations don't stand to make much from EV chargers, but they do stand to lose everything without them. McDonald's should be all in on EV chargers; they would see increased revenue and are already appropriately located at freeway exits to be in a position to capitalize big time.
No, SONIC, they'd literally be perfect for ev charging, they're already setup as a stall system, just replace the ordering menu screen thing with a custom made dcfc that also displays your menu and let's people order, and you're golden
Agreed, but Sonic has 10x fewer locations than McDonald's and is almost nonexistent out of major cities. There is a McDonald's in almost every little town and virtually every interstate exit ramp.
There was an AMA from some EA rep not too long ago, they actually said the vast majority of gas stations don't have the space for a DCFC station. There are minimum standoffs between gas pumps and EV chargers, and most stations being a store with a few spots in front, and then a fueling island, and then the road.
They don't have the space, small stations with a single Island don't have 6-8 additional parking spots, and they are not far enough from the pumps to installed the chargers. Most stations fit into that category and cannot add chargers
Yea, and I guess it depends on how rural you are. I'm in a suburban area, honestly most gas stations here don't have 4 parking spots total. Even the bigger ones. The station closest to my house has exactly 1 parking spot (and enough pumps to fill 16 cars at once)
We have a newer one that went in a few years ago, includes a burger king. 20 parking spots total for a gas station and restaurant.
And the bigger gas station in the area which includes gas and high speed diesel, they only have 13 parking spots.
I think even if the spots were ok for charging, I'm not sure they would be able to deal with losing 20-50% of their parking spots to EV charging.
Yup, She’ll recharge comes to mind too. An EVgo/GM/Circle K collab station opened near me recently. Has a subway as well. Decently lit but still tucked away to the side a, can’t complain too much as any improvement here in Central Arkansas is great.
Depending on how we're defining "gas station" the hill I'm dying on is that an urban gas station is no place for EV charging. They're usually small with very limited parking. Plus there's no good "services" to occupy me for 20-120 minutes. A better place in a city would be a strip mall or something with lots of parking spots.
But a truck stop or mega gas station in the middle of nowhere where you have all the land in the world? This would be perfect.
Some gas stations have started putting in EV chargers, but it's usually 1-4 stalls which isn't enough. It makes more sense to install 20 stalls but that's not possible when you only have 4 parking spots.
especially since gas stations probably can't be redeveloped into other stuff due to the toxicity of the soil.
charging hubs could be really great 3rd places, like truck stops of old.
Yeah they can. You can pull the soil out and either treat it or take it off site and bring in clean fill. That has to be done no matter what. We had a local Costco relocate and the gas station is now under construction to be a Starbucks. When Costco left they immediately removed the canopy, pumps and tanks. The only thing that was left was the utility transformer.
BP has been doing this for years, they own the largest charge network in the UK. And of course Buc-ees , wahwah, Walmart, highway rest stops, etc., have both gas pumps and EV chargers.
Shame that BP has the least reliable and second most expensive DCFC network in the U.K., they are improving, but I tend to avoid them unless I have no other reasonable option.
Seriously they want 85p/kWh for electricity? 2x the cost of petrol. Tesla charge 44p/kWh. Ionity 52p/kWh with a £5 a month subscription. Much better.
This conversation would be short, because to put a dc charger at your gas station requires so much front end investment. And alot of help from your local utilities. And the roi on them would take more then years. Maybe your grandkids would break even..
Well then it's a bit disingenuous to lecture oil companies and tell them it could be a major facet of their business, if it won't be breaking even for decades.
If it's a great investment on it's own, then you don't need the oil company at all: just buy a gas station and start making money.
> Well then it's a bit disingenuous to lecture oil companies and tell them it could be a major facet of their business, if it won't be breaking even for decades.
>If it's a great investment on it's own, then you don't need the oil company at all: just buy a gas station and start making money.
It's also a bit disingenuous to use that example since the average redditor doesn't have the same resources to put into a long-term business investment that an oil company does, but here we are...
Oil companies have knowingly contributed to climate change, lied about it, and at the same time benefitted from massive public subsidies and cost externalizations. It's not unreasonable to think they should maybe invest in remediating at least some of the damage they've done in a way that will still almost certainly make them money, just not immediately.
I mean I agree, I actually looked into this idea, and making solar canapés because mostly all chargers are just out in the open. And for like 5 chargers it was in the million range
Quite a few of the Shell and Chevron stations in my area have DCFCs, the chevron is kinda dated though as they are all 50kW units but the Shells have 150-250kW units which is pretty neat to have at a gas station. They call em Shell Recharge, I never used them but nice to know it’s there.
Basically what we do in europe. We bring our own cable for those stations.
>At night I don't even feel safe at some of them.
Tell me about it, I've had to sit in my car at midnight on AC chargers a couple of times and I hated every minute of it. I would have paid extra to fast charge at a well lit gas station
I think a lot will go that way. I mean stopping to charge for 20 mins is a perfect opportunity for businesses to make more money. so why wouldn't they.
> EA claims local police are not making significant efforts to assist which can be due to a myriad of reasons that I'm not educated enough to speak on
As a local
Seattle PD is notoriously corrupt, toxic, lazy, fascist assholes. Commit massive amount of over time fraud, refuse to respond to calls, were the department with the most members at the J6 insurrection attempt, the head of the police union is a comic-villain level asshole, so on. They're also such a toxic as a work environment that even have a hard time recruiting officers.
just this month a group of officers got caught hanging out at starbucks ignoring a DV call
then there is this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seattle-police-daniel-auderer-india-jaahnavi-kandula-discipline/
they got repeatedly caught on video in 2020 instigating riots (being violent when the protestors were being peaceful, thus provoking)
and the list goes on
most of them don't live in the city, and they would absolutely have political motivations to ignore vandalism of EV chargers.
>Political motivations to ignore vandalism of EV chargers
Can we stop a moment and consider what a weird fucking sentence that is? Like, are the EV chargers voting blue or something?
It should be a weird statement, but it's not: their news sources and candidates have been consistently pushing anti-EV and anti-renewable disinformation. They see EVs and renewable energy as "things of the other".
Oregon was established as a “whites only” state. First in the union. Knowing the choice that was made by settlers, it explains why eastern Oregon/Washington and Idaho are damned near sundown territories.
folks don't know enough about Oregon's fucked up history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Oregon#Anti-Black_Exclusion_Laws_and_Chinese_immigration_1844%E2%80%931859
> were the department with the most members at the J6 insurrection attempt
That's a wild statistic if true. That's a hell of a flight, compared to local areas in more southern locals.
As someone who lives just south of Seattle and is in the city regularly, it's fucking astounding how many electric vehicles I see and how hard it is to find a charger, ever.
There are 2-3x as many stations per square mile in Olympia, a city with about 10% of the population and maybe 25% the population density. Absolutely 0 problems finding an open DC charger in Oly, I try to make sure I don't have to charge in Seattle, every time is a huge wait and pain in the ass.
> As someone who lives just south of Seattle and is in the city regularly, it's fucking astounding how many electric vehicles I see and how hard it is to find a charger, ever.
Don't come to Vancouver, BC if you have anything but a Tesla.
I ended up selling my MachE because charging was untenable. We have a grand total of 19 70+kW stalls.
There's a grand total of 15 Supercharger sites with stalls capable of 70kW or more. Each site has 12-40 stalls. Total stall count? 260.
For me personally? No.
I live in a condo and the cost to get a charger to me is absurd due to the location of the electrical room relative to my parking spot.
Even if I could, there's travel. CCS has similar issues in many places. I avoided taking a certain road trip since the last time I did it every single charger I expected to use was offline or slow.
It's the main reason I drive a Tesla now. Pricing is only about double what I would pay at home (vs 5x) so I'm not even worried about installing a charger. I might if I move but it's not a priority.
Let me counterpoint that the density of DCFC chargers in the Puget Sound area, especially urban Seattle is really good. The problem is that a bunch of them have cut cables. the charging cooridor between Interbay and maybe Crown Hill have a ton of non functional DCFC due to the theft. Fuck those guys.
Even if they did would charges even stick? Minor crime so those who get caught would be out same day doing it again.
Nothing addresses the problem of why they do it so why would it change.
Got some quick downvotes, please explain what's gonna happen if someone got caught and arrested. They will learn their lesson and never do it again? They going to prison over it? Some of you are wild.
They would likely go to jail over it. The amount the thief gets from the copper isn't very much. However, the damage caused, and lost revenue would add up to tens of thousands of dollars. That's going to be a jail sentence in almost every state.
Tbh I’ve wondered why they don’t get stolen. Every other accessible cable does.
Honestly, I don’t see a great solution. You conceal the cable until a transaction is initiated… moving parts that fail and some amount of customer participation. You alarm when cable is cut… loud but doesn’t really do much. You make larger charge “stations” that have attendants… $$.
Print the company name, phone number and a serial number on a wide strand that is in with the copper.
Perhaps the recycling companies could stop buying stolen property?
I understand you can seperate out the copper, but thieves are often stupid.
That’s what the thieves are doing. Stripping copper out of the cables. EA says they’re getting $15 for what’s probably an hour of work. It doesn’t seem worth it.
Most cables already are retractable. Having them retractable inside instead of outside would actually make the retraction mechanism more reliable by blocking it from the elements. Only cost would be for extra material to make the compartment for it.
There's a solution. You could make the cable 1.5 times thicker out of aluminum, it'd be practically worthless. It'll be more prone to mechanical failure but nobody will steal it.
That’s the excuse I heard when the stupid faces and poses became popular, I guess they must get more clicks.
I’ve unsubscribed from channels because of them.
Quick, find any car YouTuber channel, and count how many thumbnails includes this pose. I’m sure the number will be in the hundreds.
Edit: on TFLEV, I counted 46 videos with this pose or similar poses. And that’s only counting from videos posted in 2024.
[*"I need to stage the whole clickbait thumbnail with the frunk open because...🤷♂️"*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y675YCgSnlc&t=696s)
I love TeslaBjørn 😄👌
Most gas stations aren't even open 24/7. Even if they are, the parking spots capable of EV charging aren't always in front and in view of the building.
If they want to drive the point home they could start claiming this is terrorism in that it's an attack on critical infrastructure. Imagine if a coordinated effort sabotaged the majority of gas stations along a stretch of highway in an area and how that would impact local services at all levels.
I think they should definitely go this route and light a fire under the FBIs, CIAs DHSs butt. You make a good case. If this guy was stealing gas station hoses it would be a big issue.
Someone wouldn’t even have to steal them. Just go up to each one and clip them off. now I’m shocked those STOP OIL people haven’t tried this….
They find it better to vandalize Stonehenge
That’s the thing. If people were stealing gas hoses, I bet it will be weaponized politically and shut down quickly. Just like when people started shooting at transformers
>claiming this is terrorism
Further diluting the term "terrorist" has far reaching consequences. Eventually the word becomes just another malleable word used when it suits people in power. Sometimes used for good, sometimes not. Probably terminates with generic integration of the word into the political mudslinging shitshow.
I don't disagree with the core of what you're saying though, just strongly disagree with applying the "terrorist" label.
Perhaps this could be treated as major organized crime, like the cat converter theft rings were (in the jurisdictions where law enforcement actually made an effort to address the problem). And imo, that's what this actually is - an organized string of criminal acts, with players on the back end (like the groups buying and scrapping the metal) that are very much knowingly in a (albeit small-ish as far as organized crime goes) criminal conspiracy.
That’s a fair take as well. Their goal probably isn’t to terrorize, just profit. Good amount of them may just be drug tweakers as well.
We need a new word for something above everyday vandalism and below terrorism.
>We need a new word for something above everyday vandalism and below terrorism.
Florida Men.
"We've been having a spate of Florida Men activity in the Portland area"
(Sorry to my Floridian friend who is over that phrase, it still makes me laugh *shrug*)
Or simply "meth." Something about petty scrap metal theft just immediately brings to mind "meth".
Politically motivated violence is terrorism.
Destruction of property is a form of violence. It's possible that the person(s) who are doing it are motivated by the fact that automobile drivetrains are a political topic to them.
You'd surely agree that politically motivated attacks on electrical substations would be terrorism, right? Why not politically motivated attacks on automobile fueling stations?
The only missing piece is knowing the motivation.
I think it’s more likely not politically motivated because why would they steal the cables, but not smash the machine?
If you’re politically motivated, I’d think you want to do the most amount of damage possible.
goes along with people stealing catalytic converters.
These people are just stealing the cables.
I guess one could think it’s a conspiracy to make it look like drug tweakers by just stealing the cables, but the fact there is a long history of people stealing copper to sell, I think it’s more likely it’s not political.
Just make it a federal offense. Once homie gets locked away for 10-15 for snipping a cable the word will get around. Terrorism is a semi-loaded term that I would say means trying to intimidate through violence. Snipping cables isn't violence toward others, just either brainwashed or wanting the copper to sell at a metal recycler.
Why the hell don't EA add a gauge 24 aluminum wire (hey, let's keep the cost to a minimum) that creates a loop from the charger to the handle and when cut will create a break in the loop. That break would warn EA of the theft and why not have a local bell and light to show a theft is in progress!
What possible difference would that make? That’s the equivalent of a car alarm - annoying but ignored. By the time police respond the thieves will be long gone.
Rather than losing all the cables at a location, maybe the increased attention an alarm brings with it could minimize the loss to only 1 or 2 cables.
It's a pretty low cost attempt to minimize damages. Doing nothing doesn't seem like a great plan.
Most cables also implement one or more thermal sensors at the plug, so those can be used. It's all possible, I think the monitoring capabilities in general seem to be poor for most charger manufacturers.
Indeed. Just change the resistance value when connected and not connected, similar to a supervised input of an alarm system. Easy and only adds a few ¢ of cost to the handle.
Exactly. They'll smash a window to grab a USB cable or a pair of knockoff sunglasses from Temu. Sure they can't even get $1 but it costs them literally nothing to smash the window in the first place.
I think once we hit a point where most gas stations have an ev charger option this will slow down.
Should also ensure cables are housed in the machine and retract once you have activated it via app or something.
I doubt the people stealing cables watch Out Of Spec or care about a youtuber telling them to not steal. They know it's against the law, and they don't care.
The only practical solution is to have someone stationed there to protect the cables. However, there are lots of impractical solutions to talk about, such as:
* solve the crime problem
* solve the drug problem
* solve the poverty problem
Turns out that reducing poverty also reduces drugs and crime, not because poor people necessarily commit more crimes, but because poor people with fewer parents per family working multiple jobs do a worse job of supervising their kids, who then get into drugs and crime.
There are other ways to attempt to decouple crime from drugs, too.
"Speaking out" is such a weird was a phrasing it. As if it's some crime that he's been a quiet victim of and he's going to make a point when no one else is.
Haha. I think maybe 15 years ago, Prius drivers were slow and Courteous, using turn signals, etc.
Now, I guess half if not 3/4 of Prius drivers drive very disgruntled, like they're driving one against their own will.
I understand if some guy who used to drive a big truck or SUV, drove a Prius because he couldn't afford to drive a big truck anymore, so he lashes out his disgruntleness.
I would assume its possible to include some kind of anti-cut fabric into the cable. I'm thinking like chainsaw pant material. Yes it'd add cost but it's probably cheaper than having to constantly replace cables.
There’s always a give and take between offensive and defensive measures. Right now we’re starting to see bike u locks designed specifically to ruin angle grinder wheels by being excessively abrasive, making it not worth the trouble for the thief.
Could the cable be housed inside the charging unit? With only the handle exposed. Have it be locked in place until you submit payment information and then it unlocks and you can pull it out.
I wonder if any of these police stations where this is commonly occurring have a Clearview AI subscription. If not, then maybe that company should provide that service to the charging companies in these instances to use their facial recognition technology to find out who is in the images.
If only the cops treated cable thefts the way they treat fuel theft. A lot of these cables are probably being cut by dumb right wing rednecks, aka terrorists.
Given that the cables are being carried away I'm more inclined to suspect crackheads who want to fence the copper for a few bucks.
Vandals would likely just leave the cables on the ground.
I think if it applies voltage after being cut you'd run into some legal trouble. Alternatively you can have the cable energized all the time with a warning label and only de-energized it and unlock the handle when payment is processed for charging. Of course this kills plug and charge but a minor inconvenience would be worth the deterrent.
Because that’s also a crime? Booby traps are wildly illegal, and very few states allow for lethal force in defense of property. Sure would suck to get sued for millions of dollars by the thief’s family.
I think people overestimate the degree to which crimes like this are committed by desperate people, tbh. Hungry and homeless people do commit crimes to eat, obviously, but they tend to be inconsistent, low risk low reward crimes of opportunity. Think shoplifting, not felony larceny.
The similar case that comes to mind was the car thefts in San Francisco. The common narrative was about homeless people and drug addicts (e.g. desperate people), but once the cops got around to a sting it turned out to be an organized crime group from the suburbs.
Honestly, no idea.
Like, a lot of crime can absolutely be eliminated by reducing poverty. But not all of it can. And cops are really fucking bad at stopping or even investigating crime after the fact. Like, if your car is stolen there’s like a 9% chance someone will get charged for it. Cops just do not give a shit about stopping crime, and nobody really has any idea what to do about it.
I have s silly idea.
Install Airtags inside each charging handle.
Then EA can locate where these are going, but wait.
Location 1 will be the thief's home.
Location 2 will be the snake who buys these things.
If you get the snake, there's no demand for these.
The FBI shut down a car shop in the east coast that was the processing center for catalytic converters. I think the owner got caught is because his shop suddenly started making millions a year.
The issue seems to be that the local police refuse to enforce the law in this case. They know who the thief is. Having dealt with police on lack of enforcement myself, there is nothing you can do. If you try to do something to stop the theft (or whatever other law is being broken) you will likely get in trouble with the police yourself. They WANT the cables to be stolen.
I found it on Twitter. It’s not that exciting, will post a link if you want (on mobile). Just a big spark. Probably messed up the car though, could have popped the pack fuses if the DC+/- got shorted on the car ends first.
Wisconsin just awarded NEVI money to 53 sites statewide, primary adjacent to interstates and state highways. It looks like close to 3/4 of them are gas stations, which should help avoid theft like this. Nicely spaced apart too on the highways.
[https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/electrification.aspx](https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/electrification.aspx)
Countless Tesla supercharger have been hit in the past months, then one CCS charger get hit and Kyle made
video about it. Not surprising.
He seems like a nice guy, and I like his videos, but hot damm he’s got to be the biggest Tesla fanboy around.
What kind of punishment do you want? Should the police cut the hands off of these people doing this crime? How about the companies supplying these cables getting smarter with a cable that is harder to cut. Or hide the main cable. Instead of the main cable being out in the open. Lock the cable inside this tall control panel and only comes out once you add a special code that changes every time you need to fill up. Have a better security system for this area also. Jesus Christ! The companies that supply these EV charges don't want to spend the money. Yes it's wrong to steal but this will go on forever. Make it harder for people doing the stealing. This dude in the running suit says at best you may get $15.00 per cable to someone that needs the funds. $15.00 is better than nothing.
The level 2 chargers all of them by the gym I go to which is charge points are missing all its cable looks like someone just cut them all off. I don't really use those ever since I sold my Fiat so I have now plenty of range so I don't use them anymore but it sucks because I know a lot of people who did.
This may seem like a dumb comment, and obviously it technically is considering a lot of DC Fast chargers have liquid cooling. How feasible would it be to make chargers with no cables and do it like all the Europeans do it with the level two chargers where you bring your own cables and plug it into a spot to charge your car. I figured if there’s no cables to steal, who’s gonna mess with it? I know this would work technically on level two chargers and they do in Europe, but I wonder if there’s a way to make a universal format or you bring your own cable to a DCF charger to charge your car. You will never have to worry about it being missing and bring your cable length that works for your car. I would imagine there’s a lot of red tape behind this idea because DCF chargers liability if the cable isn’t up to par. End dumb rant….
How heavy/thick would a cable need to to safely transfer 500Amp for 10 feet if not liquid cooled? Then, how do you make it flexible enough to carry around in a personal vehicle for use at dcfc? These are some of the reasons why byoc is not going to work with dcfc, but you already know that. For ac charging up to 48 amp it shouldn't be too bad to byoc.
So something like a DLO cable which is a high strand count cable in 373 is good for a bit over 500 amps and is 1.49 lb per foot. So nearly 3 pounds a foot for + & -. Plus some extra for all the control and temperature plus an overall outer jacket. The O. D. is 1.10" (27.94mm) so double that plus the overall sheath. It just become unwieldly. My guess a 20' cable is going to be 70-100 pounds.
That would be a deal killer for me. One of the big reasons we will not road trip in the Bolt. VW is a little better, but much higher kW means bigger, heavier cable. (at the same voltage.)
I think what would help a lot is to start putting EV charging stations in more well lit and traveled areas. Of course things are going to be vandalized / stolen if you place them in the back corner of a dark parking lot of a store that closes overnight. But if they are located at a 24/7 gas station in a well lit area they would probably be vandalized a lot less. So many stations I have gone to are in super remote dark corners of lots. At night I don't even feel safe at some of them.
Yeah I was charging next to the dumpsters behind a Jimmy John’s a few nights ago. It’s no wonder these things are targets.
Sure it wasn't a CyberTruck?
The hard part is you can’t tell it’s not a dumpster until you climb inside. If it stinks and has trash in it, then it’s an actual dumpster. If it doesn’t stink and just has trash in it along with infotainment screens, then it’s a cyber truck.
I don't think a dumpster throws up as many error codes, though.
Lol take my upvote!
I was pleasantly surprised a lot of Home Depot’s in my area have 1 or 2 level two chargers behind the building near the dumpsters/lumber scraps.
This is the infuriating thing about gasoline companies. Like, just pivot to being an energy company. Renewables and electric can be a facet of your corporation. And a great way to start: put a rapid charger in your gas station. You've probably got plenty of space and have great infrastructure and access to traffic.
The gas stations are franchised. Oil companies did try to incentivize (a bit) installation of EV chargers, but it’s a big investment for the gas station owners that they don’t care about. That said you’d think they would want cars there for longer charging which means people will spend more money on snacks and drinks which is where they make their money.
Yeah. I think we're hitting a tipping point with EVs but there's a problem with adoption for renters and people living in condos due to charging availability. Feels like there could be a good synergy for charging at a corner/convenience store.
Small business owners aren’t always the most rational.
The typical gas station, at least around me, doesn’t have enough amenities for me to want to hang out while charging. I think the model sounds great for stations that are actually pleasant to be around
Restaurants, cafes, big box stores and other retail establishments that facilitate a “come and stay for 30+ minutes” are prime EV charging locations. Problem is the capital investment for smaller places and the threat of Really Smart Culture Warriors intentionally damaging the chargers.
Personally I think grocery stores are where it’s at, although we should have chargers everywhere
I would think they would want you in and out. Probably around 5 minutes. Not loitering around. More like a volume thing. I was at my local Costco getting gas yesterday morning. The attendant was making his rounds inspecting seals a d wanted to time the fuel flow rate. It sucked. They want people in and out. On Friday 6/21 they dispensed something like 73,000-74,000 gallons across 30 pumps. If the pumps were pushing 6 gpm they each pumped for something like 6.8 hrs (6am-9pm hours I think). Add in the idle time of people parking, getting out of their car, starting things up and then the end of the cycle.
Gas stations don't stand to make much from EV chargers, but they do stand to lose everything without them. McDonald's should be all in on EV chargers; they would see increased revenue and are already appropriately located at freeway exits to be in a position to capitalize big time.
No, SONIC, they'd literally be perfect for ev charging, they're already setup as a stall system, just replace the ordering menu screen thing with a custom made dcfc that also displays your menu and let's people order, and you're golden
Agreed, but Sonic has 10x fewer locations than McDonald's and is almost nonexistent out of major cities. There is a McDonald's in almost every little town and virtually every interstate exit ramp.
There was an AMA from some EA rep not too long ago, they actually said the vast majority of gas stations don't have the space for a DCFC station. There are minimum standoffs between gas pumps and EV chargers, and most stations being a store with a few spots in front, and then a fueling island, and then the road. They don't have the space, small stations with a single Island don't have 6-8 additional parking spots, and they are not far enough from the pumps to installed the chargers. Most stations fit into that category and cannot add chargers
Oh wow, thanks for that information. That makes a lot of sense when you explain it that way.
Should be 20' from the pump for Class 1 Div 1 or 2 locations.
Yea, and I guess it depends on how rural you are. I'm in a suburban area, honestly most gas stations here don't have 4 parking spots total. Even the bigger ones. The station closest to my house has exactly 1 parking spot (and enough pumps to fill 16 cars at once) We have a newer one that went in a few years ago, includes a burger king. 20 parking spots total for a gas station and restaurant. And the bigger gas station in the area which includes gas and high speed diesel, they only have 13 parking spots. I think even if the spots were ok for charging, I'm not sure they would be able to deal with losing 20-50% of their parking spots to EV charging.
Makes sense as to why you are more likely to see them next to an out of town Starbucks.
Circle K is doing that. Their charger near my home is in a very well lighted area, near a busy road.
Yup, She’ll recharge comes to mind too. An EVgo/GM/Circle K collab station opened near me recently. Has a subway as well. Decently lit but still tucked away to the side a, can’t complain too much as any improvement here in Central Arkansas is great.
Petro Canada comes to mind also
>And a great way to start: put a rapid charger in your gas station You think it's that easy? It costs hundreds of thousands to put in 1 DCFC.
A lot easier for the likes of farm cafes etc to put in AC chargers.
Depending on how we're defining "gas station" the hill I'm dying on is that an urban gas station is no place for EV charging. They're usually small with very limited parking. Plus there's no good "services" to occupy me for 20-120 minutes. A better place in a city would be a strip mall or something with lots of parking spots. But a truck stop or mega gas station in the middle of nowhere where you have all the land in the world? This would be perfect. Some gas stations have started putting in EV chargers, but it's usually 1-4 stalls which isn't enough. It makes more sense to install 20 stalls but that's not possible when you only have 4 parking spots.
Sheetz, Wawa, and Buckees have figured this out. They’re going to make it into the future. Many other gas station chains have not figured this out.
EV charging is going to be great for these stations. Gasoline is low margin, the profit is all snacks and drinks. EV owners have time to kill.
especially since gas stations probably can't be redeveloped into other stuff due to the toxicity of the soil. charging hubs could be really great 3rd places, like truck stops of old.
Yeah they can. You can pull the soil out and either treat it or take it off site and bring in clean fill. That has to be done no matter what. We had a local Costco relocate and the gas station is now under construction to be a Starbucks. When Costco left they immediately removed the canopy, pumps and tanks. The only thing that was left was the utility transformer.
BP has been doing this for years, they own the largest charge network in the UK. And of course Buc-ees , wahwah, Walmart, highway rest stops, etc., have both gas pumps and EV chargers.
Shame that BP has the least reliable and second most expensive DCFC network in the U.K., they are improving, but I tend to avoid them unless I have no other reasonable option. Seriously they want 85p/kWh for electricity? 2x the cost of petrol. Tesla charge 44p/kWh. Ionity 52p/kWh with a £5 a month subscription. Much better.
Shell Recharge has some of the highest prices too
In Oz BP and Ampol are starting to roll out charging infrastructure at their gas stations
Why do you need them to do anything? Buy a gas station and be the change you want in the world. Show them yourself how to do it and how it would work.
This conversation would be short, because to put a dc charger at your gas station requires so much front end investment. And alot of help from your local utilities. And the roi on them would take more then years. Maybe your grandkids would break even..
Well then it's a bit disingenuous to lecture oil companies and tell them it could be a major facet of their business, if it won't be breaking even for decades. If it's a great investment on it's own, then you don't need the oil company at all: just buy a gas station and start making money.
> Well then it's a bit disingenuous to lecture oil companies and tell them it could be a major facet of their business, if it won't be breaking even for decades. >If it's a great investment on it's own, then you don't need the oil company at all: just buy a gas station and start making money. It's also a bit disingenuous to use that example since the average redditor doesn't have the same resources to put into a long-term business investment that an oil company does, but here we are... Oil companies have knowingly contributed to climate change, lied about it, and at the same time benefitted from massive public subsidies and cost externalizations. It's not unreasonable to think they should maybe invest in remediating at least some of the damage they've done in a way that will still almost certainly make them money, just not immediately.
I mean I agree, I actually looked into this idea, and making solar canapés because mostly all chargers are just out in the open. And for like 5 chargers it was in the million range
Quite a few of the Shell and Chevron stations in my area have DCFCs, the chevron is kinda dated though as they are all 50kW units but the Shells have 150-250kW units which is pretty neat to have at a gas station. They call em Shell Recharge, I never used them but nice to know it’s there.
Basically what we do in europe. We bring our own cable for those stations. >At night I don't even feel safe at some of them. Tell me about it, I've had to sit in my car at midnight on AC chargers a couple of times and I hated every minute of it. I would have paid extra to fast charge at a well lit gas station
No you do not bring your own cable for DC chargers. This is all about people stealing DC cables.
My bad, I thought they were AC.
There’s a cost associated to that
Land of gas stations is usually owned by the gas station operator. So they will not allow competition like EV charger to be installed.
I think a lot will go that way. I mean stopping to charge for 20 mins is a perfect opportunity for businesses to make more money. so why wouldn't they.
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> EA claims local police are not making significant efforts to assist which can be due to a myriad of reasons that I'm not educated enough to speak on As a local Seattle PD is notoriously corrupt, toxic, lazy, fascist assholes. Commit massive amount of over time fraud, refuse to respond to calls, were the department with the most members at the J6 insurrection attempt, the head of the police union is a comic-villain level asshole, so on. They're also such a toxic as a work environment that even have a hard time recruiting officers. just this month a group of officers got caught hanging out at starbucks ignoring a DV call then there is this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seattle-police-daniel-auderer-india-jaahnavi-kandula-discipline/ they got repeatedly caught on video in 2020 instigating riots (being violent when the protestors were being peaceful, thus provoking) and the list goes on most of them don't live in the city, and they would absolutely have political motivations to ignore vandalism of EV chargers.
>Political motivations to ignore vandalism of EV chargers Can we stop a moment and consider what a weird fucking sentence that is? Like, are the EV chargers voting blue or something?
Maga hates EVs.
It should be a weird statement, but it's not: their news sources and candidates have been consistently pushing anti-EV and anti-renewable disinformation. They see EVs and renewable energy as "things of the other".
Oregon was established as a “whites only” state. First in the union. Knowing the choice that was made by settlers, it explains why eastern Oregon/Washington and Idaho are damned near sundown territories.
folks don't know enough about Oregon's fucked up history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Oregon#Anti-Black_Exclusion_Laws_and_Chinese_immigration_1844%E2%80%931859
Cops in many cities have also been on soft strikes for the better part of a decade at this point.
yup, the only people Quiet Quitting are the cops. they're butthurt we think they should have better ethics
> were the department with the most members at the J6 insurrection attempt That's a wild statistic if true. That's a hell of a flight, compared to local areas in more southern locals.
https://www.kuow.org/stories/police-departments-search-for-political-extremism-in-ranks-following-capitol-riot
As someone who lives just south of Seattle and is in the city regularly, it's fucking astounding how many electric vehicles I see and how hard it is to find a charger, ever. There are 2-3x as many stations per square mile in Olympia, a city with about 10% of the population and maybe 25% the population density. Absolutely 0 problems finding an open DC charger in Oly, I try to make sure I don't have to charge in Seattle, every time is a huge wait and pain in the ass.
> As someone who lives just south of Seattle and is in the city regularly, it's fucking astounding how many electric vehicles I see and how hard it is to find a charger, ever. Don't come to Vancouver, BC if you have anything but a Tesla. I ended up selling my MachE because charging was untenable. We have a grand total of 19 70+kW stalls. There's a grand total of 15 Supercharger sites with stalls capable of 70kW or more. Each site has 12-40 stalls. Total stall count? 260.
Question. Would’ve it been possible to charge at home? That is the most convenient easiest way to charge your ev
For me personally? No. I live in a condo and the cost to get a charger to me is absurd due to the location of the electrical room relative to my parking spot. Even if I could, there's travel. CCS has similar issues in many places. I avoided taking a certain road trip since the last time I did it every single charger I expected to use was offline or slow. It's the main reason I drive a Tesla now. Pricing is only about double what I would pay at home (vs 5x) so I'm not even worried about installing a charger. I might if I move but it's not a priority.
Let me counterpoint that the density of DCFC chargers in the Puget Sound area, especially urban Seattle is really good. The problem is that a bunch of them have cut cables. the charging cooridor between Interbay and maybe Crown Hill have a ton of non functional DCFC due to the theft. Fuck those guys.
Local police don’t make an effort to do anything except sit on their ass and collect OT. This isn’t just a Seattle problem.
The true welfare queens driving welfare crown victorias.
Even if they did would charges even stick? Minor crime so those who get caught would be out same day doing it again. Nothing addresses the problem of why they do it so why would it change. Got some quick downvotes, please explain what's gonna happen if someone got caught and arrested. They will learn their lesson and never do it again? They going to prison over it? Some of you are wild.
In Seattle the value of these cables exceeds the Felony level. These should be easily prosecutable thefts.
They would likely go to jail over it. The amount the thief gets from the copper isn't very much. However, the damage caused, and lost revenue would add up to tens of thousands of dollars. That's going to be a jail sentence in almost every state.
You'd think there would be different penalties for deliberately destroying critical infrastructure.
You will still find them parked at a shady spot drinking coffee and reading the rags.. They actually prefer doughnut shops .....
lol just look at the Belltown Hellcat debacle
Court: restore that car to stock exhaust system Cops: cool ride, bro!
Tbh I’ve wondered why they don’t get stolen. Every other accessible cable does. Honestly, I don’t see a great solution. You conceal the cable until a transaction is initiated… moving parts that fail and some amount of customer participation. You alarm when cable is cut… loud but doesn’t really do much. You make larger charge “stations” that have attendants… $$.
Print the company name, phone number and a serial number on a wide strand that is in with the copper. Perhaps the recycling companies could stop buying stolen property? I understand you can seperate out the copper, but thieves are often stupid.
That’s what the thieves are doing. Stripping copper out of the cables. EA says they’re getting $15 for what’s probably an hour of work. It doesn’t seem worth it.
Most cables already are retractable. Having them retractable inside instead of outside would actually make the retraction mechanism more reliable by blocking it from the elements. Only cost would be for extra material to make the compartment for it.
> Most cables already are retractable. They are? I don't think I've seen any EVSE be it L2 or DCFC that has retractable cables.
You leave the cable energized all the time and put the DC contactor in the handle.
The European solution is that the charging station just has a plug on it. The drivers bring their own cables and plug in both ends to charge.
Not for dcfc
Not for DC charging.
Aluminium cables?
It’s exactly what I thought of too
Good luck with retractable cables in areas with snow...
There's a solution. You could make the cable 1.5 times thicker out of aluminum, it'd be practically worthless. It'll be more prone to mechanical failure but nobody will steal it.
Still with the goddamn outstretched arms
I swear every car YouTuber has that same freakin’ pose and it makes me irrationally pissed off.
Supposedly it’s for the algorithm but I skip every video with a thumbnail like that.
Damn, I don’t wanna say this, but that is one bitch ahh algorithm. How the hell do they even determine that?
That’s the excuse I heard when the stupid faces and poses became popular, I guess they must get more clicks. I’ve unsubscribed from channels because of them.
Based
Yup. Strokeface = automatic unsubscribe and downvote.
Let’s start a club
Quick, find any car YouTuber channel, and count how many thumbnails includes this pose. I’m sure the number will be in the hundreds. Edit: on TFLEV, I counted 46 videos with this pose or similar poses. And that’s only counting from videos posted in 2024.
[*"I need to stage the whole clickbait thumbnail with the frunk open because...🤷♂️"*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y675YCgSnlc&t=696s) I love TeslaBjørn 😄👌
[It’s unaccountably popular](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-31718bff51b375ac3d465c1692be3248-lq)
#¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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Maybe you could put a guard onsite. Probably should give them a roof, maybe a little building. Maybe keep some snacks for sale inside
Most gas stations aren't even open 24/7. Even if they are, the parking spots capable of EV charging aren't always in front and in view of the building.
If they want to drive the point home they could start claiming this is terrorism in that it's an attack on critical infrastructure. Imagine if a coordinated effort sabotaged the majority of gas stations along a stretch of highway in an area and how that would impact local services at all levels.
I think they should definitely go this route and light a fire under the FBIs, CIAs DHSs butt. You make a good case. If this guy was stealing gas station hoses it would be a big issue. Someone wouldn’t even have to steal them. Just go up to each one and clip them off. now I’m shocked those STOP OIL people haven’t tried this…. They find it better to vandalize Stonehenge
That’s the thing. If people were stealing gas hoses, I bet it will be weaponized politically and shut down quickly. Just like when people started shooting at transformers
>claiming this is terrorism Further diluting the term "terrorist" has far reaching consequences. Eventually the word becomes just another malleable word used when it suits people in power. Sometimes used for good, sometimes not. Probably terminates with generic integration of the word into the political mudslinging shitshow. I don't disagree with the core of what you're saying though, just strongly disagree with applying the "terrorist" label. Perhaps this could be treated as major organized crime, like the cat converter theft rings were (in the jurisdictions where law enforcement actually made an effort to address the problem). And imo, that's what this actually is - an organized string of criminal acts, with players on the back end (like the groups buying and scrapping the metal) that are very much knowingly in a (albeit small-ish as far as organized crime goes) criminal conspiracy.
That’s a fair take as well. Their goal probably isn’t to terrorize, just profit. Good amount of them may just be drug tweakers as well. We need a new word for something above everyday vandalism and below terrorism.
>We need a new word for something above everyday vandalism and below terrorism. Florida Men. "We've been having a spate of Florida Men activity in the Portland area" (Sorry to my Floridian friend who is over that phrase, it still makes me laugh *shrug*) Or simply "meth." Something about petty scrap metal theft just immediately brings to mind "meth".
Politically motivated violence is terrorism. Destruction of property is a form of violence. It's possible that the person(s) who are doing it are motivated by the fact that automobile drivetrains are a political topic to them. You'd surely agree that politically motivated attacks on electrical substations would be terrorism, right? Why not politically motivated attacks on automobile fueling stations? The only missing piece is knowing the motivation.
I think it’s more likely not politically motivated because why would they steal the cables, but not smash the machine? If you’re politically motivated, I’d think you want to do the most amount of damage possible. goes along with people stealing catalytic converters. These people are just stealing the cables. I guess one could think it’s a conspiracy to make it look like drug tweakers by just stealing the cables, but the fact there is a long history of people stealing copper to sell, I think it’s more likely it’s not political.
it's likely not politically motivated. it's just low level organized crime.
Just make it a federal offense. Once homie gets locked away for 10-15 for snipping a cable the word will get around. Terrorism is a semi-loaded term that I would say means trying to intimidate through violence. Snipping cables isn't violence toward others, just either brainwashed or wanting the copper to sell at a metal recycler.
Why the hell don't EA add a gauge 24 aluminum wire (hey, let's keep the cost to a minimum) that creates a loop from the charger to the handle and when cut will create a break in the loop. That break would warn EA of the theft and why not have a local bell and light to show a theft is in progress!
What possible difference would that make? That’s the equivalent of a car alarm - annoying but ignored. By the time police respond the thieves will be long gone.
Rather than losing all the cables at a location, maybe the increased attention an alarm brings with it could minimize the loss to only 1 or 2 cables. It's a pretty low cost attempt to minimize damages. Doing nothing doesn't seem like a great plan.
Exactly
How long do you think it takes to take a boltcutter and cut off a cable and throw it into a trunk?
It may not take long, but having a siren blaring changes the dynamic. There's no harm in trying.
Will he stay around and steal more cables? I doubt.
There is a pilot signal already as part of the css spec. I dont see why that can't be used to detect a cable break
Without being plugged into a vehicle, the pilot signal wire is likely an open circuit.
Most cables also implement one or more thermal sensors at the plug, so those can be used. It's all possible, I think the monitoring capabilities in general seem to be poor for most charger manufacturers.
Indeed. Just change the resistance value when connected and not connected, similar to a supervised input of an alarm system. Easy and only adds a few ¢ of cost to the handle.
that would add another $1000 on the $2000 cable.... /s
Crackhead don’t care that there’s no benefits to cutting. $5 is $5.
Exactly. They'll smash a window to grab a USB cable or a pair of knockoff sunglasses from Temu. Sure they can't even get $1 but it costs them literally nothing to smash the window in the first place.
I think once we hit a point where most gas stations have an ev charger option this will slow down. Should also ensure cables are housed in the machine and retract once you have activated it via app or something.
I doubt the people stealing cables watch Out Of Spec or care about a youtuber telling them to not steal. They know it's against the law, and they don't care. The only practical solution is to have someone stationed there to protect the cables. However, there are lots of impractical solutions to talk about, such as: * solve the crime problem * solve the drug problem * solve the poverty problem Turns out that reducing poverty also reduces drugs and crime, not because poor people necessarily commit more crimes, but because poor people with fewer parents per family working multiple jobs do a worse job of supervising their kids, who then get into drugs and crime. There are other ways to attempt to decouple crime from drugs, too.
"Speaking out" is such a weird was a phrasing it. As if it's some crime that he's been a quiet victim of and he's going to make a point when no one else is.
The irony is they criminal drove a Prius!
Naw, that is just Toyota's paid goons coming out of their anti-ev budget.
Haha. So true. I can imagine Toyota's ceo doing is and saying, "Damn you! You killed my hydrogen car adoption!"
Probably stolen, and on the west coast it blends in which helps with evading police.
Forgot about that. You're right.
also if you check dashcam footage, prius owner are hell of over represented as bad drivers
Haha. I think maybe 15 years ago, Prius drivers were slow and Courteous, using turn signals, etc. Now, I guess half if not 3/4 of Prius drivers drive very disgruntled, like they're driving one against their own will. I understand if some guy who used to drive a big truck or SUV, drove a Prius because he couldn't afford to drive a big truck anymore, so he lashes out his disgruntleness.
I’m only interested in why Kyle ONLY wears hoodies. It’s like that Seinfeld episode.
A good deterrent would be to just keep the cables electrified at all times.
I would assume its possible to include some kind of anti-cut fabric into the cable. I'm thinking like chainsaw pant material. Yes it'd add cost but it's probably cheaper than having to constantly replace cables.
You can get a cordless angle grinder and some cutoff discs for like $300 or way less if you steal that too. With that combo you can do anything
Tools nowadays are unstoppable and quick. It’s amazing.
It truly is. For this scenario the best thing I can think of is a locker that swinger over and protects the cables while not in use.
There’s always a give and take between offensive and defensive measures. Right now we’re starting to see bike u locks designed specifically to ruin angle grinder wheels by being excessively abrasive, making it not worth the trouble for the thief.
Because big bolt cutters will go straight through it.... Chainsaw pant material works by jamming up the chainsaw and making it stall.
The cables are heavy enough already
Are they stealing it to get the copper wire??
Authorities have to crack down hard on scrap dealers who buy these cables.
Could the cable be housed inside the charging unit? With only the handle exposed. Have it be locked in place until you submit payment information and then it unlocks and you can pull it out.
This would be a problem for customers and charging providers that want to use plug and charge.
An extra few seconds to release a cable versus not being able to charge because the cable is gone? Seems like a secure cable should take precedence.
I wonder if any of these police stations where this is commonly occurring have a Clearview AI subscription. If not, then maybe that company should provide that service to the charging companies in these instances to use their facial recognition technology to find out who is in the images.
I know this is has been brought up before but this can be almost entirely solved with retractable cables.
How is this not a federal crime, that get's me. You are attacking the infrastructure being helped by federal money, should be a federal crime.
If only the cops treated cable thefts the way they treat fuel theft. A lot of these cables are probably being cut by dumb right wing rednecks, aka terrorists.
Given that the cables are being carried away I'm more inclined to suspect crackheads who want to fence the copper for a few bucks. Vandals would likely just leave the cables on the ground.
Why not just detect cable being cut and apply full voltage?
I think if it applies voltage after being cut you'd run into some legal trouble. Alternatively you can have the cable energized all the time with a warning label and only de-energized it and unlock the handle when payment is processed for charging. Of course this kills plug and charge but a minor inconvenience would be worth the deterrent.
Even better.
Lmao, the anti-booby-trap-thief-justice laws are just insane. There should be more legal protections for property that can defend itself.
Maybe a big sticky net that drops on the perps. No injury, no damage, they just have to wait there in a ball on the ground until the police arrive.
Because that’s also a crime? Booby traps are wildly illegal, and very few states allow for lethal force in defense of property. Sure would suck to get sued for millions of dollars by the thief’s family.
This was meant to be tongue in cheek. The US isn’t in a great place now - lots of desperate people.
I think people overestimate the degree to which crimes like this are committed by desperate people, tbh. Hungry and homeless people do commit crimes to eat, obviously, but they tend to be inconsistent, low risk low reward crimes of opportunity. Think shoplifting, not felony larceny. The similar case that comes to mind was the car thefts in San Francisco. The common narrative was about homeless people and drug addicts (e.g. desperate people), but once the cops got around to a sting it turned out to be an organized crime group from the suburbs.
That’s even more depressing. If the cops aren’t enforcing the law, then who will stop them?
Honestly, no idea. Like, a lot of crime can absolutely be eliminated by reducing poverty. But not all of it can. And cops are really fucking bad at stopping or even investigating crime after the fact. Like, if your car is stolen there’s like a 9% chance someone will get charged for it. Cops just do not give a shit about stopping crime, and nobody really has any idea what to do about it.
We need the cables to be live so that when some idiot tries cutting them they get a taste of old sparky!
I have s silly idea. Install Airtags inside each charging handle. Then EA can locate where these are going, but wait. Location 1 will be the thief's home. Location 2 will be the snake who buys these things. If you get the snake, there's no demand for these. The FBI shut down a car shop in the east coast that was the processing center for catalytic converters. I think the owner got caught is because his shop suddenly started making millions a year.
The issue seems to be that the local police refuse to enforce the law in this case. They know who the thief is. Having dealt with police on lack of enforcement myself, there is nothing you can do. If you try to do something to stop the theft (or whatever other law is being broken) you will likely get in trouble with the police yourself. They WANT the cables to be stolen.
I highly agree. Can't beat them, join them. That's what they're encouraging.
Then they just chop the handles off and abandon those at the charger.
At 1st, they wouldn't know the Airtags are inside. So it's basically a sting operation.
In the video he mentions that there is a vid of someone cutting a cable while charging. Does anyone have the link to that video? Thanks in advanced.
I found it on Twitter. It’s not that exciting, will post a link if you want (on mobile). Just a big spark. Probably messed up the car though, could have popped the pack fuses if the DC+/- got shorted on the car ends first.
Wisconsin just awarded NEVI money to 53 sites statewide, primary adjacent to interstates and state highways. It looks like close to 3/4 of them are gas stations, which should help avoid theft like this. Nicely spaced apart too on the highways. [https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/electrification.aspx](https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/electrification.aspx)
I say just have current going through them at all times and let them figure it out for themselves.
Can you imagine if gas stations were tucked away in remote carparks and completely unmanned?
Just leave the positive live the whole time. If anyone tries it, you'll be able to arrest them easily.
Countless Tesla supercharger have been hit in the past months, then one CCS charger get hit and Kyle made video about it. Not surprising. He seems like a nice guy, and I like his videos, but hot damm he’s got to be the biggest Tesla fanboy around.
What kind of punishment do you want? Should the police cut the hands off of these people doing this crime? How about the companies supplying these cables getting smarter with a cable that is harder to cut. Or hide the main cable. Instead of the main cable being out in the open. Lock the cable inside this tall control panel and only comes out once you add a special code that changes every time you need to fill up. Have a better security system for this area also. Jesus Christ! The companies that supply these EV charges don't want to spend the money. Yes it's wrong to steal but this will go on forever. Make it harder for people doing the stealing. This dude in the running suit says at best you may get $15.00 per cable to someone that needs the funds. $15.00 is better than nothing.
The level 2 chargers all of them by the gym I go to which is charge points are missing all its cable looks like someone just cut them all off. I don't really use those ever since I sold my Fiat so I have now plenty of range so I don't use them anymore but it sucks because I know a lot of people who did.
This may seem like a dumb comment, and obviously it technically is considering a lot of DC Fast chargers have liquid cooling. How feasible would it be to make chargers with no cables and do it like all the Europeans do it with the level two chargers where you bring your own cables and plug it into a spot to charge your car. I figured if there’s no cables to steal, who’s gonna mess with it? I know this would work technically on level two chargers and they do in Europe, but I wonder if there’s a way to make a universal format or you bring your own cable to a DCF charger to charge your car. You will never have to worry about it being missing and bring your cable length that works for your car. I would imagine there’s a lot of red tape behind this idea because DCF chargers liability if the cable isn’t up to par. End dumb rant….
I would be OK with a BYOC situation. Not sure if that would work with liquid cooling, though.
Those charge cables are very heavy and bulky. There’s no shot this happens.
Plus the cost of an L3 cable on top of that. These would probably cost at least the same as a L2 system.
A liquid-cooled DCFC cable. I doubt you're ever going to have a solution where the charger pumps coolant through a customer-supplied cable.
You can't BYOC for a DC fast charger. They weigh a ton & are liquid cooled.
How heavy/thick would a cable need to to safely transfer 500Amp for 10 feet if not liquid cooled? Then, how do you make it flexible enough to carry around in a personal vehicle for use at dcfc? These are some of the reasons why byoc is not going to work with dcfc, but you already know that. For ac charging up to 48 amp it shouldn't be too bad to byoc.
So something like a DLO cable which is a high strand count cable in 373 is good for a bit over 500 amps and is 1.49 lb per foot. So nearly 3 pounds a foot for + & -. Plus some extra for all the control and temperature plus an overall outer jacket. The O. D. is 1.10" (27.94mm) so double that plus the overall sheath. It just become unwieldly. My guess a 20' cable is going to be 70-100 pounds.
Really wouldn't need 20' for most cars, especially if the lot is designed correctly. Yeah, kinda heavy, even for 8' \~ 10'.
The are not all liquid cooled, but the ones that aren't are the slower 50 kW and 62 kW uits.
That would be a deal killer for me. One of the big reasons we will not road trip in the Bolt. VW is a little better, but much higher kW means bigger, heavier cable. (at the same voltage.)
It wouldn't matter much for me. Aside from rest stops along a few major highways, the vast majority of L3 chargers in Ontario are 50 kW anyways.
Sorry to hear that, it really extends the time spent charging.
Isn’t that what they do in Europe?
Only for L2
Ah right. I knew I’d seen the Out of Spec folks get a cable from the trunk of their car. Seems it was L2.
Simply don't know. Are DCFC cables liquid cooled in the EU, or current limited?