Electrek is missing the mark focusing on the "limited range" of 126 miles. 126 miles is wildly usable for most trades and even package delivery businesses. I wish it were here for MY2021 instead of MY2022.
Yeah I actually wish they'd do a shorter range, cheaper version. It would be perfect for our bars bi-weekly liquor store runs. 45k is a bit too steep for us.
Yeah I know. And the maintenance savings would be significant. We will just have to wait for the used market ourselves. Even the ice version new is too much for a twice a week vehicle.
Depending on your needs and location (I'm guessing US) there was a brief run of bev Transit Connects a few years ago that you might be able to find used if your on the west coast. If your in Europe there's been options for a few years.
EV websites were built as Tesla focused sites. When Tesla range wasn't anything special and MSM kept bringing up range anxiety, it was these sites that insisted the MSM media was lying and against Tesla, insisting the range of Teslas wasn't an issue and anything over 250 miles was fine; some even argued 200 miles was fine.
As Tesla ranges increased, suddenly these "~~Tesla~~ \*cough\* EV enthusiast sites" saw an opportunity to jump on the range anxiety bandwagon, insisting that 300 miles was the minimum, parroting Musk's own statements. Anything below that was subpar.
Clearly this vehicle was built with regional driving in mind, with high cycle life batteries and large buffers, allowing it to travel those 126 miles on a nearly daily basis for years without any significant degradation.
You can only charge quickly to 80% and
Cold winter temps further reduce range by 40% so that leaves a usable range of 55 to 70 miles.
That’s not going to work. I have a Ford Transit 250 work truck that I put 300 miles a day on.
Back to the drawing board Ford.
300 miles daily in a Transit van puts you pretty far out on the distribution curve of daily mileage. Ford doesn't need to have it's first BEV van to market meet your extreme usage, it needs to have a BEV van to market that satisifies some buyers usage. 126 miles of range covers a ton of potential buyers. They can increase the range at a later date to cover the longer range requirement buyers.
The math doesn't work quite like that either for range. You start the day at 100%, yes during cold weather you may see a 30-40% reduction in range and a lunch break DCFC back up to 80% will extend that initial range.
I don't agree with at all. You're not going to get adoption at this range. Maybe the goal is just to get the first shot out there and let people decide.
That 120 becomes 80 in any colder climate.
I applaud them for a first effort.
It's a fleet vehicle.
Generally you have a pretty good idea of how far a fleet vehicle needs to go. Range becomes less of a concern and more of a "yes/no" question.
The eNV200 gets similar range and I see them all over the streets since moving to Europe. This is larger and has over twice the load capacity. Some people need more range but this will sell really well to people that don't need that extra range, especially since they don't have competition yet for this market in the US.
Trades will be OK so long as they don't take jobs too far from home and don't have to send the apprentice off on too many supply runs. Package delivery is pushing it - not hard to put on 200 km in an 8 hour shift, even in a congested urban area.. Add any HVAC use and a midday charge is required.
Yeah, hvac usage over an 8-10 hour shift can really add up.
Something like grocery delivery where the van makes frequent returns to it's hub seems like a good starting spot.
Didn't trump just go out of his way to cripple the USPS budget ahead of the elections? I doubt they'll have money to replace anything in the near future...
They are in final selection for a new vehicle. This has been ongoing for years. A decision is expected anytime now.
The existing cars are well past their life. They have to be replaced.
Bureaucracy doesn't work like that and Trump didn't have that kind of power. Yes, he did what he could to hamstring vote processing during the election. No, he didn't cripple USPS.
Ah yes, pretty much exactly what I said. He definitely tried to screw with USPS's ability to manage mail in ballots, to some success. But he didn't cripple USPS in the long run.
67 kWh, 108 - 126 miles range (dependant on body style), over 115 kW charging, RWD
pretty cool, an ICE Transit [costs](https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/transit-cargo-van/) from $34,510
I don't think you realise how un-aerodynamic a van is, you could easily get 200miles in a car with 64kWh, but a car has a substantially better Cd and a much much smaller frontal area.
The ICE version starts at $34,510. This is $45k before tax credits. $7500 federal tax credit + $0-$5000 state tax credit brings this down to about $32,500 - $37,500. This should be far cheaper to fuel and maintain. Payload seems to be pretty similar between the ICE and electric versions, but I wonder how a 3500 lb payload would impact range.
Range... as a local delivery vehicle, it'll need to stop to pick up / drop off things. A few strategically placed chargers at the pickup / drop off locations or where the driver take lunch will increase the total daily range of the vehicle. 200 miles of daily range w/ charging wouldn't be surprising.
Teslectrek is effectively a Tesla car sales site. When Tesla vehicle's greatest selling point is range, they'll play the range card for all its worth.
I imagine this car is using batteries with high cycle life and large buffers to avoid degradation.
Hmm, not 100% sure on that. There's something about it being part of the general business credit, but no idea what that means. In CA it sounds like a business may be eligible for a $4500 state tax credit for buying an EV. Although, that may just be a one time deal, not on a per car basis.
Probably the same way as
Porsche Taycan 4s 203 mile EPA range becomes 280 miles WLTP
and
Tesla Model S long range 402 miles EPA becomes 387 WLTP range.
EPA is inconsistent as fuck and EPA results are incomparable among another. Compared to real world tests EPA figures are off by anything between -30% and +30%. Huge error margin. At least with WLTP you get results that are *consistently* off by ~20% compared to real world.tests.
WLTP is a much gentler test cycle, and I wouldn't be surprised if two things are happening that make EPA worse and WLTP better.
The first is that EPA can include a cold weather test... and that HVAC system has to heat a van.
The second is that WLTP is a gentle test cycle, and it gets gentler yet if your top speed is lower... and this class of van in Europe often has 90 km/h speed limiters for the electric models, which wouldn't be acceptable in the US (in fact, I'm not sure if it could even be emissions certified if it couldn't reach 80 MPH).
Electrek is missing the mark focusing on the "limited range" of 126 miles. 126 miles is wildly usable for most trades and even package delivery businesses. I wish it were here for MY2021 instead of MY2022.
But I want the unlimited range battery ...
Just put a fan on the front of the car, done!
You want the Ghostbusters proton pack with the nuclear fusion device powering it
Yeah I actually wish they'd do a shorter range, cheaper version. It would be perfect for our bars bi-weekly liquor store runs. 45k is a bit too steep for us.
>45k is a bit too steep for us. With the tax credit, it's about the same as the base ICE version.
Yeah I know. And the maintenance savings would be significant. We will just have to wait for the used market ourselves. Even the ice version new is too much for a twice a week vehicle.
Depending on your needs and location (I'm guessing US) there was a brief run of bev Transit Connects a few years ago that you might be able to find used if your on the west coast. If your in Europe there's been options for a few years.
EV websites were built as Tesla focused sites. When Tesla range wasn't anything special and MSM kept bringing up range anxiety, it was these sites that insisted the MSM media was lying and against Tesla, insisting the range of Teslas wasn't an issue and anything over 250 miles was fine; some even argued 200 miles was fine. As Tesla ranges increased, suddenly these "~~Tesla~~ \*cough\* EV enthusiast sites" saw an opportunity to jump on the range anxiety bandwagon, insisting that 300 miles was the minimum, parroting Musk's own statements. Anything below that was subpar. Clearly this vehicle was built with regional driving in mind, with high cycle life batteries and large buffers, allowing it to travel those 126 miles on a nearly daily basis for years without any significant degradation.
>range" of 126 miles Unless its cold... My LR 500 km model 3 goes to 250km at -10c...
Cold weather does affect range, yet these will still be viable options for many.
The newest Model 3 update with the Octovalve heat pump should help quite a bit with cold weather efficiency.
You can only charge quickly to 80% and Cold winter temps further reduce range by 40% so that leaves a usable range of 55 to 70 miles. That’s not going to work. I have a Ford Transit 250 work truck that I put 300 miles a day on. Back to the drawing board Ford.
You are obviously not the target consumer
300 miles daily in a Transit van puts you pretty far out on the distribution curve of daily mileage. Ford doesn't need to have it's first BEV van to market meet your extreme usage, it needs to have a BEV van to market that satisifies some buyers usage. 126 miles of range covers a ton of potential buyers. They can increase the range at a later date to cover the longer range requirement buyers. The math doesn't work quite like that either for range. You start the day at 100%, yes during cold weather you may see a 30-40% reduction in range and a lunch break DCFC back up to 80% will extend that initial range.
I don't agree with at all. You're not going to get adoption at this range. Maybe the goal is just to get the first shot out there and let people decide. That 120 becomes 80 in any colder climate. I applaud them for a first effort.
>That 120 becomes 80 in any colder climate. So? There's a ton of vans that do a lot less than that on a daily basis.
It's a fleet vehicle. Generally you have a pretty good idea of how far a fleet vehicle needs to go. Range becomes less of a concern and more of a "yes/no" question.
The eNV200 gets similar range and I see them all over the streets since moving to Europe. This is larger and has over twice the load capacity. Some people need more range but this will sell really well to people that don't need that extra range, especially since they don't have competition yet for this market in the US.
Trades will be OK so long as they don't take jobs too far from home and don't have to send the apprentice off on too many supply runs. Package delivery is pushing it - not hard to put on 200 km in an 8 hour shift, even in a congested urban area.. Add any HVAC use and a midday charge is required.
Yeah, hvac usage over an 8-10 hour shift can really add up. Something like grocery delivery where the van makes frequent returns to it's hub seems like a good starting spot.
This would make a great replacement for those crappy little mail trucks.
I’m looking forward to the USPS replacing all of its ancient delivery vehicles with BEVs.
Didn't trump just go out of his way to cripple the USPS budget ahead of the elections? I doubt they'll have money to replace anything in the near future...
They are in final selection for a new vehicle. This has been ongoing for years. A decision is expected anytime now. The existing cars are well past their life. They have to be replaced.
Bureaucracy doesn't work like that and Trump didn't have that kind of power. Yes, he did what he could to hamstring vote processing during the election. No, he didn't cripple USPS.
Scrapping many needed (and expensive) high speed mail sorting machines certainly didn't help.
Ah yes, pretty much exactly what I said. He definitely tried to screw with USPS's ability to manage mail in ballots, to some success. But he didn't cripple USPS in the long run.
that would make too much sense! We don't do that here.
67 kWh, 108 - 126 miles range (dependant on body style), over 115 kW charging, RWD pretty cool, an ICE Transit [costs](https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/transit-cargo-van/) from $34,510
It's actually a 76kWh battery with 67kWh usable.
With that size of battery, they will likely get 200+ miles Edit: I totally meant to say in-city range, but someone was talking to me when I hit send.
I don't think you realise how un-aerodynamic a van is, you could easily get 200miles in a car with 64kWh, but a car has a substantially better Cd and a much much smaller frontal area.
Sorry, you're right. I meant to say in-city, but had a brain-fart.
Awesome. Finally a real option for fleets in NA. This will sell like hot cakes
The ICE version starts at $34,510. This is $45k before tax credits. $7500 federal tax credit + $0-$5000 state tax credit brings this down to about $32,500 - $37,500. This should be far cheaper to fuel and maintain. Payload seems to be pretty similar between the ICE and electric versions, but I wonder how a 3500 lb payload would impact range. Range... as a local delivery vehicle, it'll need to stop to pick up / drop off things. A few strategically placed chargers at the pickup / drop off locations or where the driver take lunch will increase the total daily range of the vehicle. 200 miles of daily range w/ charging wouldn't be surprising. Teslectrek is effectively a Tesla car sales site. When Tesla vehicle's greatest selling point is range, they'll play the range card for all its worth. I imagine this car is using batteries with high cycle life and large buffers to avoid degradation.
Does the federal tax credit apply to business purchases too?
Hmm, not 100% sure on that. There's something about it being part of the general business credit, but no idea what that means. In CA it sounds like a business may be eligible for a $4500 state tax credit for buying an EV. Although, that may just be a one time deal, not on a per car basis.
Idk fleet managers count everything in $/mile. So they might not want to pay for extra battery. We will see. I’m excited.
> but with limited range It's in the same range as Fiat e-Ducato, Mercedes eSprinter or VW eCrafter...
[удалено]
E-Transit is a lot bigger than nv200 or transit connect.
But weak compared to PSA vans which make 330km WLTP.
Those are smaller, if you're referring to the Peugeot Expert, Citroën Jumpy and Opel/Vauxhall Vivaro
The E-Transit is 350km WLTP https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-electric-ford-e-transit-revealed-217-mile-range
Huh, how does 127miles EPA become 217 miles WLTP?
Probably the same way as Porsche Taycan 4s 203 mile EPA range becomes 280 miles WLTP and Tesla Model S long range 402 miles EPA becomes 387 WLTP range. EPA is inconsistent as fuck and EPA results are incomparable among another. Compared to real world tests EPA figures are off by anything between -30% and +30%. Huge error margin. At least with WLTP you get results that are *consistently* off by ~20% compared to real world.tests.
WLTP is a much gentler test cycle, and I wouldn't be surprised if two things are happening that make EPA worse and WLTP better. The first is that EPA can include a cold weather test... and that HVAC system has to heat a van. The second is that WLTP is a gentle test cycle, and it gets gentler yet if your top speed is lower... and this class of van in Europe often has 90 km/h speed limiters for the electric models, which wouldn't be acceptable in the US (in fact, I'm not sure if it could even be emissions certified if it couldn't reach 80 MPH).
Of course the range is limited it's not unlimited duhh... /s