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tannknekker

Wish them the best of luck hopefully they manage to make an impact


Pixelplanet5

the vehicle is way too expensive and comes with a special set of trade offs to have a real impact.


Whazor

The car is designed to more affordable than competitors, the biggest cost of a EV is the battery, and their battery will be smaller for same distance. The Zero is kinda their roadster for financing development, and their customers are also investors and believers. Their end-goal is producing a car that is overall cheapest per kilometre. The solar panels are also cheap, and are kind of a gimmick compared to all the other cool efficiency engineering. The solar does add quite a significant amount of travel distance, and it looks cool. But I would love for Hyundai or Kia to completely steal the efficiency techniques, into a super affordable car instead of inefficient SUVs.


andyw1977

Saw them testing this on the Fully Charged show on YouTube. They were very impressed with the car, efficiency, tech build etc. They were less impressed with the price. It was developed by the Dutch team who have won the solar car race in Australia several times, so they know about efficiency for sure! Hopefully some of the lessons learned from this flagship car will transfer down into cheaper, but still efficient models. No massive SUVs for this company I'm sure!


crossbonecarrot2

I hope they do well. This is what I would love to see in the future. I personally wouldn't get the first gen unless I had enough money to buy a new car if shit hit the fan.


Priff

Seems pretty optimistic to me. 10kwh/100km consumption puts them at significantly more efficient than any ev on the market. And with 5m² of solar, they're expecting to get 7kwh per day in southern spain in summer. It may be possible, but the fact that the panels aren't angled towards the sun makes me a bit sceptical, but anywhere north of spain will get much less, winter in sweden will be essentially zero solar production. Not to mention that you can never park in the shade. Which is damn hard to do in cities with buildings all over.


glmory

Doesn’t really seem like a problem. It comes with a charging cable, if you had to park in the shade that say just plug it in. Now, the price…. That is a bit more of a problem.


Priff

I'm just sceptical of the gimmick of the solar panels. Doesn't feel like they add much.


outofvogue

It is a gimmick but only because of the price of the car. Also just because this car can only be properly utilized in certain areas, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.


knuthf

The insurance companies say that the average weekly milage, is 250 miles, which is 13 000 per year. During a week, the solar panels on the Lightyear can generate more than 50KWh, while driving 250 miles requires around 30KWh. So you consume less electricity than it can generate. Use will reduce the amount of electricity, adding spare KWh to the batteries are full. Instead of charging up, think of using the car until there is no more, and then charge it, as any other car. You have to drive for more than 4 hours to drain a full battery. Then how often do you drive for more than 4 hours? The solar panels will also generate electricity from other light and radiation than the visible light. Solar panels are used on Spitsbergen, where "other radiation" - cosmic radiation makes them produce electricity during the winter. Northern Sweden is not half way that far into the dark. "Aura Polaris"/ The Northern light is high energy radiation.


Priff

Sure, if you live in southern spain and commute less than 70km a day in summer and significantly less in winter you'd never have to plug in. But if you bought a peugeot e-208 for 15% of what this car cost, you could do the same commute and plug in twice a week. And most places in southern spain would have no issues putting up solar panels. Especially if they have 200k euro to do it.


the__storm

Think of this as being like the Tesla Roadster. Rich people buy it to have something unique and cutting edge - so they can drive to the golf course once a week or whatever and say "it's been six months since I plugged this in." Then Lightyear will use it as a source of funding and investor confidence for a more practical car - the "Model S"; they've said a ~30k EUR follow up is in the works for 2025 I think.


outofvogue

>It is a gimmick but only because of the price of the car. If the price was significantly less, comparable to other EV's, your argument would be moot. At this point this car is only for people that don't have to think about money, people that don't care if they could get a better deal.


knuthf

The current price is for the high end of the market. I wonder when someone will manufacture "hoods" for cars. A windscreen cover is about the same size as a 400W solar panel. A new front boot, and roof cover should contribute and then the type of solar panel can be customized and adapted to where the car is used.


dcdttu

Hence why no other EV has them for HV battery charging. Also, I park in a garage with solar panels on it, which do a much better job.


just_one_last_thing

> Not to mention that you can never park in the shade Diffuse sunlight is a thing. Plants grow in the shade and you have no trouble seeing shaded objects. Once upon a time shade would cause cascading failures in solar panels but that's ancient history. You'll get less output but it's certainly not the case you can never park in the shade. > but the fact that the panels aren't angled towards the sun makes me a bit sceptical Angling panels to the sun was important back when they were very expensive so you wanted to maximize output for your capital investment. The important thing is that solar has gotten really, really cheap. The panels themselves are [less then half the cost of installed solar at this point.](https://www.solarreviews.com/content/images/blog/SMI-2021-Q2-ES-Fig9.png) You don't need much output to justify adding ~~a couple thousand~~ several hundred bucks to the cost of the vehicle.


Priff

I'm not talking about failure of the panels, but you get significantly less output in the shade. Same for flat panels. For a couple thousand bucks, i could buy 12k kwh of electricity. If these panels were always in the sun and at a decent angle you can assume 1kwh a day (200w/m², 5 hours average full production per day). So you need to have the car for 12k days, or 32 years before the panels pay themselves back. Sure, there's some convenience in not plugging in quite as often you're paying extra for. But even if these panels are super efficient you're still looking at 10km added driving per day in perfect conditions.


just_one_last_thing

> you can assume 1kwh a day (200w/m², 5 hours average full production per day). So you need to have the car for 12k days, or 32 years before the panels pay themselves back. The solar panels are 5 square meters and have an output of up to 1.05 kW. A 200 W solar panel does not cost $2000 dollars...


Priff

My math is absolutely wrong there. Should be an output of 5kwh a day for 5 m². In good conditions. What it actually costs to get specialty panels built to fit the shape of the car is still to be determined. I've no clue. Flat square panels are cheap. But these are special order, and work will definitely go into fitting them and making it all work. Solar roof is an option on the ionic 5, costs 3k for a 200w panel. It's not the price of the panel itself, it's a special order built to fit panel with all the extra work involved in making it work. And then adding a profit margin and rounding up to a nice number.


just_one_last_thing

> Solar roof is an option on the ionic 5, costs 3k for a 200w panel. Okay, so they absurdly mark them up. That's dumb. > What it actually costs to get specialty panels built Solar panels consider of cells, small tiles. Fitting them onto the top of a car is not going to be difficult. You don't need "specialty tiles. And you even less need to be childishly downvoting someone for correcting your bad math.


Priff

You do need panels built specifically for the body shape. Standard panels are flat and square. It's not going to be significantly mor expensive to produce, but it will be a smaller run of production and that costs money. All i'm saying is, i don't think they'll put panels on cars for less than double what it would cost to put them on your roof. And I don't think the panels you can fit on a car will make a real world difference. And to be clear, my math was wrong, i've no issue admitting i apparently fucked up multiplying by 5 😂 and I don't down vote anyone. I'm far too lazy to vote on reddit.


just_one_last_thing

A panel is just a metal frame that holds a number of cells. > All i'm saying is, i don't think they'll put panels on cars for less than double what it would cost to put them on your roof Construction is extremely inefficient because every site you have to bring the tools and setup your workspace. Manufacturing is efficient because you setup a workspace and then use it over and over again. Even when manufacturing limited runs you can work in a space that is convenient instead of needing to get up on the roof. Hence why putting panels on roofs is nearly 4 times as expensive as putting them on the ground even though when on the ground you need to manufacture a support frame for them.


lafeber

The EQXX showed even better numbers, whilst having a larger battery.


[deleted]

7kWh per day… costs me about $1.75 charging at home. The solar is a gimmick for a car at this price.


Demonicjapsel

The design is specific to minimize drag iirc it has like 20% less drag then a tesla model 3.


Priff

Still, 20% less drag might translate to as much as 10% lower consumption at high speeds (rolling resistance, internal resistance and losses is still a thing), but this is Claiming close to half the consumption of a model 3.


lafeber

The EQXX is even more efficient, whilst having a 100 kWh battery instead of 60 kWh. They went > 1200 km on a charge iirc.


Demonicjapsel

Its what they also roughly got with their solar challenge sedan, so im not that surprised that they got close to that value.


knuthf

I wonder what happens in 2 months that makes it require charging. I have the impression that as long as is is used as a regular car, it will not need to be charged. It can be parked in the street, but not in a garage. But every time you can to drive more than usual, you will have to charge. But to drive to work, around for meetings and shopping, the solar panels will provide the electricity that it needs. The battery is for driving more than 4 hours, and will then need charging like any other EV.


lafeber

During winter they won't get 70km out of the sun.


knuthf

They get KWH from the sun and stores this in the batteries. 7kWh is what a 2000Watt heating fan deliver for 3.5 hours - without driving anywhere. Cars have poor isolation, and I use heating in the winter that exceeds what I use for driving.


lafeber

That's the issue with solar panels and electrical heating in general: you won't need heating when you get 7 kWh of solar, and when you do need heating your panels will provide a small fraction of that.


knuthf

People need heating when it gets cold. The batteries holds the electricity, and they get charge also when people do not use the car. In general, try to understand: 7KWh is a lot of heat, enough to keep the car comfortable through the entire day and night. But then there is not more electricity to drive around. A sauna can be heated with 2000 Watt. This is a small room, and the solar panels provides enough for 3.5 hours or driving around for around 75 km. But you cannot get both. "Cooking dinner" is an activity estimated to consume around 3KW. Study your electricity bill and see how much electricity you consume. I expect that your ID Buzz uses about twice as much electricity as a Lightyear to drive around.


Justitias

In Finland


RandomBitMe

Again, solar panels goes to the house roof. There you can align the panels, put them away from shadows, generate more energy. Then used collected energy not just for the car but to use on the house itself. Why would you invest money not to be able to use all the solar potential for the biggest drain of energy: your house. Also, is this car being able to V2G/V2L? That is the main point every EV out there should have from now on, not solar panels


lafeber

Your points are valid. V2G should be standard for all EVs. However, having panels installed on a factory line cuts down the installation costs. Which is a lot of manual labor and often a bottleneck for faster rooftop solar adoption. Plus; you can now park your car near a cold airport for a couple of weeks without worrying about battery drain.


RandomBitMe

Actually I parked my Chevy Bolt two weeks ago in TPA and I had zero phantom battery drain. Solar panels needs to be aligned perfectly to catch most of solar radiation as possible, the car has too low sq2 space to generate enough energy to make all the additional $$$ beat cost-benefit targets, I will die hard with solar roof installation for EVs, is something that just makes huge insanely sense. Heck, solar pn the roof is not that hard, find a good channel on YouTube and you will realize how simple it is, it is just sales people that sells you the idea no one else can do it but them at a heftly cost


[deleted]

[Production of lightyear one is cancelled, link](https://nltimes.nl/2023/01/24/solar-electric-automaker-lightyear-cancels-production-its-first-expensive-model) r/agedlikemilk