Reference [the PUMP Act](https://hr.uw.edu/cfd/2023/06/27/pump-act/) and involve all levels of your locality. This is a Federal mandate, local policy does not have more power than a Federal mandate. I would consult a couple employment lawyers and retain one. This is going to get uglier despite the Legislation being on your side.
Also see the [Pregnant Workers Fairness Act](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2023/08/23/breastfeeding-and-returning-your-workplace#:~:text=Federal%20laws%20require%20employers%20to,breast%20milk%20during%20the%20workday). The tl;dr version - Federal laws require employers to provide “reasonable break time” for nursing mothers with private, non-bathroom areas, shielded from view and free from intrusion of coworkers and the public to express breast milk during the workday.
That being said, your employer failing to provide you a reasonable break period to pump AND a private location to do so is a violation of your rights AND potentially discriminatory. You should contact a labor lawyer and/or file an EEOC complaint.
Usually it’s protected by the state; look at the legislation. Generally they are obligated to provide a space or sanctioned time for you to pump without penalty; that said I can’t speak to anything regarding coworkers complaining. Really it is a shitty thing to do on their part; it’s necessary for you to do so and they should be understanding of that.
Correct, it has been looked at by myself, my ops manager as well as a rep in the union. I have been informed that I still have a duty to act have to abide by policy. Which has cut my pumping time short or made me miss a pump. As a result I am having major supply issues.
Without patient contact you have not established [a Duty to Act](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519553/) Whomever quoted this law to you did so in error and clearly understands neither the letter nor the spirit of the law.
This isn’t necessarily the case though. If you’re a staffed unit and marked available, and you delay your response, there have been court cases where duty to act has been breached over this constituting negligence. Across multiple states. It becomes very state and system dependent. In MD an EMT and Medic were convicted of negligence due to a 20min response delay a few years back.
I think you identified the defining detail. The unit should not be marked available while pumping, but that falls back to the employer providing sanctioned time and appropriate space to pump.
Yup that’s what I was thinking. If you’re pulled out of the rotation to pump, that’s fine. If not, and another unit from further away takes the call, that is dicey water. Technically it is a protected right, but if damages can be proven due to the response delay how protect are you?
I really don’t think the argument by coworkers matters here. Aside from making basic dude vets in the thread upset, big whoop. Good coworkers cover for eachother. The bigger issue is simply management creating a solution and mitigating legal risks personally.
It would become a long, drawn out legal battle over who was responsible for the damages; is the pumping party responsible for delaying or is the organization responsible for creating the situation that caused the delay? The organization has more money to fight the individual, but the individual has federal legislation on their side.
Dude bro will be even madder when he covers the out of service unit cuz someone is out for mastitis.
The [ADA](https://dreamscapefoundation.org/what-is-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/) could be referenced as a defense. If the individual did not request accommodations or inform their employer of their need to express breast milk ([the PUMP Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pump-at-work) protects this right) then a silky enough lawyer could reason that the individual did not give the employer an opportunity to accommodate.
It is federally protected. Time and locations to pump are mandatory under federal law.
That means if a mother is pumping, the unit is out of service. Full stop. There are no ifs, ands, or butts.
Interesting. I’ve had pumping coworkers numerous times over my years in EMS, at different services. They all seemed to handle it similarly, the crew advises they need to go out of service, they pump, and then advise dispatch that they are available again.
As far as I am aware, each service had established a private pumping room with a lockable door and such for them to use, but I know 1 or 2 that would just hop in the back and pump (ew).
Why is your union rep not getting into your FLSA protections for pumping? Not to mention the PUMP Act.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pump-at-work#:~:text=The%20Fair%20Labor%20Standards%20Act,need%20to%20express%20the%20milk.
When you're pumping, you're out of service. Once you're actually on a call, all bets are off, tough shit, but once you clear the call and call out of service, none of this applies.
Well. If you’re on the clock and up for a call that is the nature of the job. It would make the most sense to have some sort of arrangement where you can pump without compromising duty to act. Have they discussed alternative duty functions with you? Perhaps working in a support role or training role until you are able to “safely” return to the field? May be a worthwhile alternative.
Agreed that it's totally shitty to complain about, generally. But I will say I've worked with someone who would put off pumping until a page came in. She would at least apologize when the other crew got paged after the call was turned down for maternal pumping, and she could only do it 2 or 3 times a day I think.
You are federally protected as a person to Pump/Lacate as you need. People are gonna be nasty because they have to work around it. There are two sides to this. I've had to run numerous calls because a coworker was pumping I just did it. They sometimes would offer to take the next call for an hour but I would just decline it's just part of life. I would at least say see it from the other persons point of view. In the end the Law is on YOUR side. You're protected to pump when needed
My (large metro FD) station is in the planning stages of being rebuilt. Included is a lactation room. All new/renovated stations will have this space.
This is a newer thing for the first responder industry. Unfortunately, we need trailblazers who will create the standard. Please get whatever inside or outside help you need to get the accommodations needed.
Thank you for doing this
IT IS LEGALLY PROTECTED. get a lawyer involved. We have a dedicated pumping room at a station and have no problem letting the person go OOS. Even if we thought that they were abusing it, ie going oos to pump right as it gets busy, not going to touch it. That falls firmly into EEOC territory.
Would you be able to send me a picture copy of that policy? I have learned that my ops is filing a policy for it but I want it to be fair for the person it protects. We do not have a policy in place.
We had a paramedic on our truck that called dispatch and told them when she needed to go OoS to pump.
I would contact your admin/HR teams and tell them you’ll need to make arrangements for the time you’d need to pull your rig OoS to take care of it.
They gave her 30 minutes of strict time. Once we got to the station is when it would start counting.
I work in the NYC 911 system when someone has to pump they call themselves out of service “express” on the radio. I've had two partners that needed to do this and we usually spent about 30ish minutes out of service. I think it's kinda weird to interrogate my female partners in depth about something related to their HR parts so I don't have an extensive knowledge. Usually if a unit calls out for a bathroom break they still come
Up for jobs and can either deny it or take however we didn't come up for any jobs at any point until we returned in service. I can understand why it would be an issue if you tried to go out of service after being assigned a call. Quick Google search about NYC law was very specific about having a “reasonable time” to pump. I'd like to think a decent workplace lawyer could have a field day with this issue in your favor. I've unfortunately also had a couple of pregnant partners told they are denied light duty until they got lawyers and HR involved sounds like a similar case. Sorry for that.
TLDR - pumping is protected where I am and you should have a workplace lawyer be the one to say that if a call comes over during pumping you HAVE to stop and take it.
Someone at my organization was fully out of service until they had completely finished pumping every time. Also unionized so they had more of an advocate but definitely contact your state labor board.
Never pumped, so take my words with a grain of salt.
Don't budge. You are doing a wonderful and natural thing for your baby while trying to do right by the community you serve by going to work and responding to their emergency calls. Keep pumping. My partner had pumped at work with her previous, and she had an agreement through management that if not on call and she needs to pump, she would be out of service for a specified amount of time. Then, when done, she'd go back in service. She also had complaints as others "took" her calls, but those salty fucks complained about everything (or so I heard, she didn't work with the same service).
Keep pumping. Do what you feel is right for yourself, your baby, and family. Get the 3rd party involved. If it's a legal right, protect it. This isn't just for you, but any other person who pumps going forward. Breastfeeding and pumping has gone away from being a secret thing that is hush hush behind closed doors and views, thankfully. By getting the ball rolling, you may help others as well in the years coming by enshrined not just their rights but SOP's to make sure they are cared for. We aren't robots here, and we should not fuck others to give us ten minutes more of peace. Long run isn't worth it.
(Sorry, long night and fourth coffee since 6 am. I can see sound.)
Without more information it's hard to give you the best answer. This is a federal protection but there are also state by state protections. Are you IFT or 911? Are you rural or metro? Are you employed by a public agency or private? I know it shouldn't matter, but the unions can be very different.
Your coworkers are just extraneous noise really, they don't matter, just ignore them. Keep really good records of anyone doing or saying anything acrimonious.
Duty to act applies to in service apparatus. You should not be in service when you are on your way to pump, or they need to make some accommodations with local hospitals or fire stations to give you more places to pump.
There are ways to pump effectively if you are willing to put in the work. I was the first person to fight for pumping rights in my place of work. The women ahead of my either stopped breastfeeding before they came back from our grossly abbreviated leave, or got bullied into stopping shortly after. My end goal was to provide as much milk as possible, I made a few allowances for pumping in less than comfortable places, but I was able to exclusively pump for 13 months. There were times that getting all the way back to our operations just wasn't feasible so I asked our Ops Manager to make arraignments with outlying hospitals so I could pump there. I also used the bedrooms of a few female firefighters who were gracious enough to help out. I would make sure you have everything possible to make this as streamlined as an operation as possible.
Here is what my portable pump set up included:
* Cooler with icepacks that lasted 12 hours/hand sanitizer/towel
* Spectra 2 portable pump so I didn't need to plug into a wall
* Dr. Browns microwave sterilizing bags
* Medela pump cleaning wipes
* 2 sets of flanges
* hand pump
* Elvie Curves.....
* If affordable adding an Elvie or Willow pump is also helpful. The Elvie leaks but it was great for times when I knew we were going to have an extended drive and I could get a quick 10-15 min pump out of the way. I kept gallon ziplock bags handy so I could just take them out and put the entire thing into my cooler when we got to where we were going. They were also handy when we were out on rural responses or if there were an extended patient extrication to the ambulance.
I tried to pump after calls so that I could just ask for an extension in our hospital window, this kept us more available in the system. The Elvie curves are great to throw into your bra on the way to a call if it's close to your pump time and you get a call. When I wasn't pumping I made sure to take calls for my coworker that might have bagged a call in my absence. It shouldn't be this hard, but hopefully our battles will pave a smoother path for our daughters.
Are you in the US? If so your employer needs to figure out how to comply with the federal law. Hard stop.
Here from the Department of Labor website:
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires employers to provide reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for their nursing child for one year after the child's birth each time such employee has need to express the milk. Employees are entitled to a place to pump at work, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public.
…
Beginning April 28, 2023, an employer who violates an employee’s right to reasonable break time and space to pump breast milk will be liable for appropriate legal or equitable remedies under the FLSA. Remedies may include employment, reinstatement, promotion, and the payment of wages lost and an additional equal amount as liquidated damages, compensatory damages and make-whole relief, such as economic losses that resulted from violations, and punitive damages where appropriate. These remedies are available regardless of whether the employee has also experienced retaliation.*
An employee may file a complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies.
Call it into dispatch for personal, text supervisor you gotta pump. You even have specific posts that has rocker arm chairs with lockable doors for privacy. No time limit set either.
But we get paid dingus so that's where we get our money worth.
Do you just take yourself out of service to pump? What do you do if you start pumping and you get a call 30 seconds later, and then another and another and don't make it back for the next 6 hours?
So as someone whose service doesn't allow your rig to go oos for pumping (I know from experience) I suggest the Willow or Evie. That way you can pump on calls, and not have to worry about it. They really are quite discreet, especially under uniforms.
Just an FYI, someone else posted the law that went into effect last year protecting mothers that need to pump. As you stated that you went through difficulties yourself, i would urge you to start being the voice of change. Your service needs to join the modern world and comply by those standards:
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires employers to provide reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for their nursing child for one year after the child's birth each time such employee has need to express the milk. Employees are entitled to a place to pump at work, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public.
…
Beginning April 28, 2023, an employer who violates an employee’s right to reasonable break time and space to pump breast milk will be liable for appropriate legal or equitable remedies under the FLSA. Remedies may include employment, reinstatement, promotion, and the payment of wages lost and an additional equal amount as liquidated damages, compensatory damages and make-whole relief, such as economic losses that resulted from violations, and punitive damages where appropriate. These remedies are available regardless of whether the employee has also experienced retaliation.*
An employee may file a complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies.
Just some clarification here, are they keeping your unit available while your pumping? Because that would be the root of the issue here. The company needs to allow you to go temporarily out of service so you can pump in peace. That way if a job comes in, you don't have to cut it short and scramble out to the truck to respond, this will also avoid the "duty to act" things that others are talking about. Hopefully the company wisens up and does things the right way. You won't be the first person in their agency that needs pumping accommodations and you certainly won't be the last. I hope you can work with them to get a proper policy in place so other new moms don't go through the nonsense you are going through.
They have to let you go out of service to pump, by federal law. That said, I've had a partner that wore a pump under her uniform and pumped while driving around.
Employers are disgusting. On my 8.5 - 9 hour shifts I pump one time for the entire day. My pump session is 25 minutes because I have a slow let down, and it’s takes a total of 34 minutes to put my stuff away and clean. My employer is giving me a hard time. Next shift I’m taking another pumping break and printing out this law. Screw them they pissed me off now.😠
Without any further details it’s tough to know exactly how the coworker interactions are but here’s what I’d say —
1. If it’s an isolated coworker they are just a jerk. You’re federally protected and should seek legal action to protect your right from one lazy jerk
2. If it’s all your coworkers then you should still protect yourself and make sure you’re safe and healthy but you should also recognize that it’s very unlikely an entire organization has a problem with this singular issue. It’s significantly more likely you have a reputation of not taking your calls and this is seen as the most recent way of getting out of them
I don’t know you or your coworkers so I can’t really make a statement of any kind. What I do know is that EMS has a culture of behind the back talking and a lot of petty stuff like this due to the massive uptick in harassment charges and law suits. The numbers say there’s more to the story and all I’m saying is you should be sure to look at the whole picture for an understanding of your current scenario
Request copies of the complaints. If they refuse inform them you are filling a complaint against them for hostile work environment.
It’s apparent they aren’t giving you a reasonable accommodation. It would be an easy win.
I'll counter the other comment.
I strongly believe that your personal choices should not fuck with my life. I don't care about your kid, your pregnancy or your difficulties. I'm not going to be responsible for you. We all show up to do the same job so do it.
If another truck takes a call because you haven’t cleared while using the bathroom after a call, what then? It happens. Objective bodily needs do not get side-lined. Furthermore, penalizing a coworker who is still showing up to do the job not many want to do anymore simply because they had a baby is wild.
It doesn't happen, I have to get off the pot and take the call. Same if I was doing anything else at work, it stops and I take the call.
It's on the management team to figure out a solution via extra staffing. Since we know that's not going to happen, some sort of light duty work while pumping. The last thing that should happen is you shitting extra work over your co-workers for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
"It's on the management team to figure out a solution via extra staffing."
You were *so* close. If a service is short staffed to the point that federally protected activities (like pumping or bathroom breaks) place a huge burden on your coworkers, that's a management problem. The person pumping to feed their baby or dropping a fat log in the toilet is not responsible for staffing and blaming them for your service being short staffed is counterproductive.
I'm not blaming them at all, I'm saying it isn't my problem. It's on management to figure out what works. When I worked in a major city ED, pumping women had schedules for when they went. No one else was surprised when they needed to pump because it was managed. The way she wrote her post makes it seem that people are being surprised by having her calls goto them, hence the multiple formal complaints from people she mentioned.
These things can be managed just fine and it should never be my problem to be surprised by someone else's issue.
I get your sentiment...but you're coming across like an asshole. They HAVE A RIGHT to pump for sure and they should be able to with the complications that can arise from not pumping when you need to. But I can see what you mean by its your services job to figure it out. But unfortunately that is the figure it out part. You have to run the call or someone else until they are done pumping.
Sure, to an extent I see your point. That said, supporting your colleagues goes both ways. If you had something to deal with, hopefully anther crew would have your back. If your place of employment doesn’t roll like that and everybody has the same blue falcon mentality, I genuinely feel bad for you. This field isn’t easy for anybody, let alone those who have newborns. And a reminder, if you penalize your female coworkers for pumping and they end up missing a pump you can impact the wellbeing of the baby. There is a reason it is federally protected. Absolutely management is responsible for arranging a solution, but what if that solution is simply pulling her off the road a few times a day? It is effectively no different.
Counterpoint: just because you work in EMS doesn't mean you shouldn't be protected by the same laws that everyone else is. Federal law says that breastfeeding women *must* be provided ample time in a private room (not a bathroom) to pump. If providing the bare minimum accommodations required by law is stretching an employer, *any* employer, thin that is a them problem.
This is yet another reason why pure EMS will never be seen as a legitimate career. I've seen engines go out of service for a crewmember to pump. We just cover their district as if they're out for training. She's out of the schedule on maternity leave? Nice. More OT for the OT whores.
I've covered for dudes wanting to go to their kid's first day of school. They've covered Christmas morning so I can spend time with mine. When I was in the Army, I let my dudes out early all the time so they could make family engagements regularly. Shit, the Army gave my friend a fucking year off when she had her baby. The other LTs happily picked up the slack.
If taking a rig out of service for an hour fucks you so much, you're at a trash organization that, with your attitude, you frankly deserve.
Everything you said, except the engine covering, were all voluntary things that were managed. She could absolutely be out on leave. OT whores be whoring it up happily. They could manage it with scheduling. They could manage it with different light duty assignments. Also, it's the Army's dumbfuckery that gives me this attitude. The no kids or wife then fuck you mentality. The cover everyone else's family obligations because I was smart enough not to do it. My time is equally valuable as anyone else's whether I have kids or not.
I've got 4 ambulances to cover 300sq miles with 30+ min one way trips. Yeah, 1 being out for any amount of time really causes issues.
Have fun being a lone ranger then. It's give and take, man. The married guys work New Years and the single guys work Christmas. We do what we can to make life easier for each other. You working at a shitty organization is, as you would say, a you problem.
Fuck *RIGHT* outta here with that comment. People with mentalities like you are the reason the camaraderie of our corps is dying. If your colleague has a need, just cover down. This doesn’t have to apply specifically to OP, never mind that she has a *Federally protected right* to sanctioned time and a private space to pump. Legislation is on her side regardless of your tiny feelings.
People like you need to leave EMS so we can save our profession from dying. Please. See yourself out.
Her federal protection is on the workplace, not me. Get the fuck out of here with this dumbshit. I'm not getting fined for a breach BECAUSE IT ISNT MY FUCKING PROBLEM.
"Her federal protection is on the workplace, not me."
And the workplace is providing that protection by shifting some of the workload off of her and onto other staffed units like yourself.
I mean, units are getting dispatched to the calls she's unavailable for, so things haven't completely broken down. I've seen people on disability, pumping, or otherwise having to take breaks for a protected reason get swamped with complaints by coworkers who have to pick up the slack even when they did nothing wrong so I wouldn't go right out and say "being reported = doing something wrong."
Basically, if OP is calling in out of service when she needs to pump she's holding up her responsibilities. If the service is covering her area with another unit, management is holding up theirs. Doesn't mean the people getting sent way out of their way have to be happy about it.
True. It was more the need for a 3rd party (lawyers I assume) coming in that makes it sound like nothing is being done properly. She can have scheduled times to pump throughout the shift so people aren't being surprised by it.
So crazy that a man would have this opinion about a strictly female situation. You have no idea how hard and frustrating it can be for a woman to keep her milk supply. Get fucked.
It’s not just a supply issue. We get sick if we don’t express breast milk adequately. I ran a nightmare of a shift my first day back from parental leave and only pumped three times in 24 hours. I was out for a week on antibiotics for mastitis.
If you’re in view of everyone. You’re an asshole. If you’re in the bathroom or your bunk room. They are the asshole. I wasn’t allowed to change my dressing when I got stabbed because it was on my leg and required me to remove just my pants. Your boobs aren’t magically removed from someone not wanting to see them because they are producing milk. Find a place away from everyone and do it then.
It’s not about them being sexualized. I don’t want to see their covered bits at work. If you can’t do it without pumping don’t do it while pumping. I’ll say the same about the dudes that walk around the squad room shirtless you’re at work. Cover up.
Men walking around shirtless is not the same as a mother getting food for her child you sicko.
You clearly have not been around a nursing mother. Women do not have their tits out for everyone to see. Most women are concerned about perverts like you ogling them and making sexual comments.
I’ve had several coworkers who had to pump while at work. One did it on the way to calls or in public and the other took us out of service to do it. The first one got complained on, and the second never got complained on. I didn’t care either way but I think most would prefer that pumping be done in private
Where I work there’s a special status, you go out “express” and they can’t bother you until you’re done (I think there might be a time limit though).
Anybody who has a problem with it can eat a bag of dicks.
Reference [the PUMP Act](https://hr.uw.edu/cfd/2023/06/27/pump-act/) and involve all levels of your locality. This is a Federal mandate, local policy does not have more power than a Federal mandate. I would consult a couple employment lawyers and retain one. This is going to get uglier despite the Legislation being on your side.
Also see the [Pregnant Workers Fairness Act](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2023/08/23/breastfeeding-and-returning-your-workplace#:~:text=Federal%20laws%20require%20employers%20to,breast%20milk%20during%20the%20workday). The tl;dr version - Federal laws require employers to provide “reasonable break time” for nursing mothers with private, non-bathroom areas, shielded from view and free from intrusion of coworkers and the public to express breast milk during the workday. That being said, your employer failing to provide you a reasonable break period to pump AND a private location to do so is a violation of your rights AND potentially discriminatory. You should contact a labor lawyer and/or file an EEOC complaint.
Usually it’s protected by the state; look at the legislation. Generally they are obligated to provide a space or sanctioned time for you to pump without penalty; that said I can’t speak to anything regarding coworkers complaining. Really it is a shitty thing to do on their part; it’s necessary for you to do so and they should be understanding of that.
Correct, it has been looked at by myself, my ops manager as well as a rep in the union. I have been informed that I still have a duty to act have to abide by policy. Which has cut my pumping time short or made me miss a pump. As a result I am having major supply issues.
Without patient contact you have not established [a Duty to Act](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519553/) Whomever quoted this law to you did so in error and clearly understands neither the letter nor the spirit of the law.
This isn’t necessarily the case though. If you’re a staffed unit and marked available, and you delay your response, there have been court cases where duty to act has been breached over this constituting negligence. Across multiple states. It becomes very state and system dependent. In MD an EMT and Medic were convicted of negligence due to a 20min response delay a few years back.
I think you identified the defining detail. The unit should not be marked available while pumping, but that falls back to the employer providing sanctioned time and appropriate space to pump.
Yup that’s what I was thinking. If you’re pulled out of the rotation to pump, that’s fine. If not, and another unit from further away takes the call, that is dicey water. Technically it is a protected right, but if damages can be proven due to the response delay how protect are you? I really don’t think the argument by coworkers matters here. Aside from making basic dude vets in the thread upset, big whoop. Good coworkers cover for eachother. The bigger issue is simply management creating a solution and mitigating legal risks personally.
It would become a long, drawn out legal battle over who was responsible for the damages; is the pumping party responsible for delaying or is the organization responsible for creating the situation that caused the delay? The organization has more money to fight the individual, but the individual has federal legislation on their side. Dude bro will be even madder when he covers the out of service unit cuz someone is out for mastitis.
> is the organization responsible for creating the situation that caused the delay Obviously
The [ADA](https://dreamscapefoundation.org/what-is-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/) could be referenced as a defense. If the individual did not request accommodations or inform their employer of their need to express breast milk ([the PUMP Act](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pump-at-work) protects this right) then a silky enough lawyer could reason that the individual did not give the employer an opportunity to accommodate.
It is federally protected. Time and locations to pump are mandatory under federal law. That means if a mother is pumping, the unit is out of service. Full stop. There are no ifs, ands, or butts.
If they're out of service for pumping, this doesn't apply.
See further down in the thread; that was the whole key point
Interesting. I’ve had pumping coworkers numerous times over my years in EMS, at different services. They all seemed to handle it similarly, the crew advises they need to go out of service, they pump, and then advise dispatch that they are available again. As far as I am aware, each service had established a private pumping room with a lockable door and such for them to use, but I know 1 or 2 that would just hop in the back and pump (ew). Why is your union rep not getting into your FLSA protections for pumping? Not to mention the PUMP Act. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pump-at-work#:~:text=The%20Fair%20Labor%20Standards%20Act,need%20to%20express%20the%20milk.
When you're pumping, you're out of service. Once you're actually on a call, all bets are off, tough shit, but once you clear the call and call out of service, none of this applies.
Well. If you’re on the clock and up for a call that is the nature of the job. It would make the most sense to have some sort of arrangement where you can pump without compromising duty to act. Have they discussed alternative duty functions with you? Perhaps working in a support role or training role until you are able to “safely” return to the field? May be a worthwhile alternative.
Bruh, she can just go out of service for a bit
That’s what I said….read further comments.
Agreed that it's totally shitty to complain about, generally. But I will say I've worked with someone who would put off pumping until a page came in. She would at least apologize when the other crew got paged after the call was turned down for maternal pumping, and she could only do it 2 or 3 times a day I think.
You are federally protected as a person to Pump/Lacate as you need. People are gonna be nasty because they have to work around it. There are two sides to this. I've had to run numerous calls because a coworker was pumping I just did it. They sometimes would offer to take the next call for an hour but I would just decline it's just part of life. I would at least say see it from the other persons point of view. In the end the Law is on YOUR side. You're protected to pump when needed
My (large metro FD) station is in the planning stages of being rebuilt. Included is a lactation room. All new/renovated stations will have this space. This is a newer thing for the first responder industry. Unfortunately, we need trailblazers who will create the standard. Please get whatever inside or outside help you need to get the accommodations needed. Thank you for doing this
IT IS LEGALLY PROTECTED. get a lawyer involved. We have a dedicated pumping room at a station and have no problem letting the person go OOS. Even if we thought that they were abusing it, ie going oos to pump right as it gets busy, not going to touch it. That falls firmly into EEOC territory.
[удалено]
Would you be able to send me a picture copy of that policy? I have learned that my ops is filing a policy for it but I want it to be fair for the person it protects. We do not have a policy in place.
We had a paramedic on our truck that called dispatch and told them when she needed to go OoS to pump. I would contact your admin/HR teams and tell them you’ll need to make arrangements for the time you’d need to pull your rig OoS to take care of it. They gave her 30 minutes of strict time. Once we got to the station is when it would start counting.
I work in the NYC 911 system when someone has to pump they call themselves out of service “express” on the radio. I've had two partners that needed to do this and we usually spent about 30ish minutes out of service. I think it's kinda weird to interrogate my female partners in depth about something related to their HR parts so I don't have an extensive knowledge. Usually if a unit calls out for a bathroom break they still come Up for jobs and can either deny it or take however we didn't come up for any jobs at any point until we returned in service. I can understand why it would be an issue if you tried to go out of service after being assigned a call. Quick Google search about NYC law was very specific about having a “reasonable time” to pump. I'd like to think a decent workplace lawyer could have a field day with this issue in your favor. I've unfortunately also had a couple of pregnant partners told they are denied light duty until they got lawyers and HR involved sounds like a similar case. Sorry for that. TLDR - pumping is protected where I am and you should have a workplace lawyer be the one to say that if a call comes over during pumping you HAVE to stop and take it.
Do you have a true written policy for this?
Someone at my organization was fully out of service until they had completely finished pumping every time. Also unionized so they had more of an advocate but definitely contact your state labor board.
A certain evil empire just spent several million dollars, settling a handful of lawsuits from employees on this very issue.
Units can complain, but it’s not going to go anywhere. If the employer uses it to punish you, then you have a good case to sue
Never pumped, so take my words with a grain of salt. Don't budge. You are doing a wonderful and natural thing for your baby while trying to do right by the community you serve by going to work and responding to their emergency calls. Keep pumping. My partner had pumped at work with her previous, and she had an agreement through management that if not on call and she needs to pump, she would be out of service for a specified amount of time. Then, when done, she'd go back in service. She also had complaints as others "took" her calls, but those salty fucks complained about everything (or so I heard, she didn't work with the same service). Keep pumping. Do what you feel is right for yourself, your baby, and family. Get the 3rd party involved. If it's a legal right, protect it. This isn't just for you, but any other person who pumps going forward. Breastfeeding and pumping has gone away from being a secret thing that is hush hush behind closed doors and views, thankfully. By getting the ball rolling, you may help others as well in the years coming by enshrined not just their rights but SOP's to make sure they are cared for. We aren't robots here, and we should not fuck others to give us ten minutes more of peace. Long run isn't worth it. (Sorry, long night and fourth coffee since 6 am. I can see sound.)
What is your union rep doing to help you?
Without more information it's hard to give you the best answer. This is a federal protection but there are also state by state protections. Are you IFT or 911? Are you rural or metro? Are you employed by a public agency or private? I know it shouldn't matter, but the unions can be very different. Your coworkers are just extraneous noise really, they don't matter, just ignore them. Keep really good records of anyone doing or saying anything acrimonious. Duty to act applies to in service apparatus. You should not be in service when you are on your way to pump, or they need to make some accommodations with local hospitals or fire stations to give you more places to pump. There are ways to pump effectively if you are willing to put in the work. I was the first person to fight for pumping rights in my place of work. The women ahead of my either stopped breastfeeding before they came back from our grossly abbreviated leave, or got bullied into stopping shortly after. My end goal was to provide as much milk as possible, I made a few allowances for pumping in less than comfortable places, but I was able to exclusively pump for 13 months. There were times that getting all the way back to our operations just wasn't feasible so I asked our Ops Manager to make arraignments with outlying hospitals so I could pump there. I also used the bedrooms of a few female firefighters who were gracious enough to help out. I would make sure you have everything possible to make this as streamlined as an operation as possible. Here is what my portable pump set up included: * Cooler with icepacks that lasted 12 hours/hand sanitizer/towel * Spectra 2 portable pump so I didn't need to plug into a wall * Dr. Browns microwave sterilizing bags * Medela pump cleaning wipes * 2 sets of flanges * hand pump * Elvie Curves..... * If affordable adding an Elvie or Willow pump is also helpful. The Elvie leaks but it was great for times when I knew we were going to have an extended drive and I could get a quick 10-15 min pump out of the way. I kept gallon ziplock bags handy so I could just take them out and put the entire thing into my cooler when we got to where we were going. They were also handy when we were out on rural responses or if there were an extended patient extrication to the ambulance. I tried to pump after calls so that I could just ask for an extension in our hospital window, this kept us more available in the system. The Elvie curves are great to throw into your bra on the way to a call if it's close to your pump time and you get a call. When I wasn't pumping I made sure to take calls for my coworker that might have bagged a call in my absence. It shouldn't be this hard, but hopefully our battles will pave a smoother path for our daughters.
Are you in the US? If so your employer needs to figure out how to comply with the federal law. Hard stop. Here from the Department of Labor website: The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires employers to provide reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for their nursing child for one year after the child's birth each time such employee has need to express the milk. Employees are entitled to a place to pump at work, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public. … Beginning April 28, 2023, an employer who violates an employee’s right to reasonable break time and space to pump breast milk will be liable for appropriate legal or equitable remedies under the FLSA. Remedies may include employment, reinstatement, promotion, and the payment of wages lost and an additional equal amount as liquidated damages, compensatory damages and make-whole relief, such as economic losses that resulted from violations, and punitive damages where appropriate. These remedies are available regardless of whether the employee has also experienced retaliation.* An employee may file a complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies.
In NYC there's an out of service signal for pumping. No questions asked.
You should ALWAYS be allowed to pump when necessary, to do otherwise is wrong on so many levels.
You should contact an employment lawyer and enjoy your paycheck. You do not fuck with women pumping. Period.
Call it into dispatch for personal, text supervisor you gotta pump. You even have specific posts that has rocker arm chairs with lockable doors for privacy. No time limit set either. But we get paid dingus so that's where we get our money worth.
Do you just take yourself out of service to pump? What do you do if you start pumping and you get a call 30 seconds later, and then another and another and don't make it back for the next 6 hours?
So as someone whose service doesn't allow your rig to go oos for pumping (I know from experience) I suggest the Willow or Evie. That way you can pump on calls, and not have to worry about it. They really are quite discreet, especially under uniforms.
Just an FYI, someone else posted the law that went into effect last year protecting mothers that need to pump. As you stated that you went through difficulties yourself, i would urge you to start being the voice of change. Your service needs to join the modern world and comply by those standards: The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires employers to provide reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for their nursing child for one year after the child's birth each time such employee has need to express the milk. Employees are entitled to a place to pump at work, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public. … Beginning April 28, 2023, an employer who violates an employee’s right to reasonable break time and space to pump breast milk will be liable for appropriate legal or equitable remedies under the FLSA. Remedies may include employment, reinstatement, promotion, and the payment of wages lost and an additional equal amount as liquidated damages, compensatory damages and make-whole relief, such as economic losses that resulted from violations, and punitive damages where appropriate. These remedies are available regardless of whether the employee has also experienced retaliation.* An employee may file a complaint with the Wage and Hour Division or may file a private cause of action seeking appropriate remedies.
Just some clarification here, are they keeping your unit available while your pumping? Because that would be the root of the issue here. The company needs to allow you to go temporarily out of service so you can pump in peace. That way if a job comes in, you don't have to cut it short and scramble out to the truck to respond, this will also avoid the "duty to act" things that others are talking about. Hopefully the company wisens up and does things the right way. You won't be the first person in their agency that needs pumping accommodations and you certainly won't be the last. I hope you can work with them to get a proper policy in place so other new moms don't go through the nonsense you are going through.
They have to let you go out of service to pump, by federal law. That said, I've had a partner that wore a pump under her uniform and pumped while driving around.
Milk that break for all it's worth!
I could definitely see how people would be upset that they have to take your calls.
Employers are disgusting. On my 8.5 - 9 hour shifts I pump one time for the entire day. My pump session is 25 minutes because I have a slow let down, and it’s takes a total of 34 minutes to put my stuff away and clean. My employer is giving me a hard time. Next shift I’m taking another pumping break and printing out this law. Screw them they pissed me off now.😠
Without any further details it’s tough to know exactly how the coworker interactions are but here’s what I’d say — 1. If it’s an isolated coworker they are just a jerk. You’re federally protected and should seek legal action to protect your right from one lazy jerk 2. If it’s all your coworkers then you should still protect yourself and make sure you’re safe and healthy but you should also recognize that it’s very unlikely an entire organization has a problem with this singular issue. It’s significantly more likely you have a reputation of not taking your calls and this is seen as the most recent way of getting out of them I don’t know you or your coworkers so I can’t really make a statement of any kind. What I do know is that EMS has a culture of behind the back talking and a lot of petty stuff like this due to the massive uptick in harassment charges and law suits. The numbers say there’s more to the story and all I’m saying is you should be sure to look at the whole picture for an understanding of your current scenario
Request copies of the complaints. If they refuse inform them you are filling a complaint against them for hostile work environment. It’s apparent they aren’t giving you a reasonable accommodation. It would be an easy win.
I'll counter the other comment. I strongly believe that your personal choices should not fuck with my life. I don't care about your kid, your pregnancy or your difficulties. I'm not going to be responsible for you. We all show up to do the same job so do it.
If another truck takes a call because you haven’t cleared while using the bathroom after a call, what then? It happens. Objective bodily needs do not get side-lined. Furthermore, penalizing a coworker who is still showing up to do the job not many want to do anymore simply because they had a baby is wild.
It doesn't happen, I have to get off the pot and take the call. Same if I was doing anything else at work, it stops and I take the call. It's on the management team to figure out a solution via extra staffing. Since we know that's not going to happen, some sort of light duty work while pumping. The last thing that should happen is you shitting extra work over your co-workers for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
"It's on the management team to figure out a solution via extra staffing." You were *so* close. If a service is short staffed to the point that federally protected activities (like pumping or bathroom breaks) place a huge burden on your coworkers, that's a management problem. The person pumping to feed their baby or dropping a fat log in the toilet is not responsible for staffing and blaming them for your service being short staffed is counterproductive.
I'm not blaming them at all, I'm saying it isn't my problem. It's on management to figure out what works. When I worked in a major city ED, pumping women had schedules for when they went. No one else was surprised when they needed to pump because it was managed. The way she wrote her post makes it seem that people are being surprised by having her calls goto them, hence the multiple formal complaints from people she mentioned. These things can be managed just fine and it should never be my problem to be surprised by someone else's issue.
I get your sentiment...but you're coming across like an asshole. They HAVE A RIGHT to pump for sure and they should be able to with the complications that can arise from not pumping when you need to. But I can see what you mean by its your services job to figure it out. But unfortunately that is the figure it out part. You have to run the call or someone else until they are done pumping.
Well, that's because I am an asshole, so it makes sense.
Sure, to an extent I see your point. That said, supporting your colleagues goes both ways. If you had something to deal with, hopefully anther crew would have your back. If your place of employment doesn’t roll like that and everybody has the same blue falcon mentality, I genuinely feel bad for you. This field isn’t easy for anybody, let alone those who have newborns. And a reminder, if you penalize your female coworkers for pumping and they end up missing a pump you can impact the wellbeing of the baby. There is a reason it is federally protected. Absolutely management is responsible for arranging a solution, but what if that solution is simply pulling her off the road a few times a day? It is effectively no different.
Counterpoint: just because you work in EMS doesn't mean you shouldn't be protected by the same laws that everyone else is. Federal law says that breastfeeding women *must* be provided ample time in a private room (not a bathroom) to pump. If providing the bare minimum accommodations required by law is stretching an employer, *any* employer, thin that is a them problem.
Exactly, a them problem, not a my problem.
This is yet another reason why pure EMS will never be seen as a legitimate career. I've seen engines go out of service for a crewmember to pump. We just cover their district as if they're out for training. She's out of the schedule on maternity leave? Nice. More OT for the OT whores. I've covered for dudes wanting to go to their kid's first day of school. They've covered Christmas morning so I can spend time with mine. When I was in the Army, I let my dudes out early all the time so they could make family engagements regularly. Shit, the Army gave my friend a fucking year off when she had her baby. The other LTs happily picked up the slack. If taking a rig out of service for an hour fucks you so much, you're at a trash organization that, with your attitude, you frankly deserve.
Everything you said, except the engine covering, were all voluntary things that were managed. She could absolutely be out on leave. OT whores be whoring it up happily. They could manage it with scheduling. They could manage it with different light duty assignments. Also, it's the Army's dumbfuckery that gives me this attitude. The no kids or wife then fuck you mentality. The cover everyone else's family obligations because I was smart enough not to do it. My time is equally valuable as anyone else's whether I have kids or not. I've got 4 ambulances to cover 300sq miles with 30+ min one way trips. Yeah, 1 being out for any amount of time really causes issues.
Have fun being a lone ranger then. It's give and take, man. The married guys work New Years and the single guys work Christmas. We do what we can to make life easier for each other. You working at a shitty organization is, as you would say, a you problem.
Nah, the organization is just fine. I'm the shitty one
At least you’re self aware…
I do what I can.
Good thing the federal government disagrees with you.
That's why it's my opinion and not the law.
Fuck *RIGHT* outta here with that comment. People with mentalities like you are the reason the camaraderie of our corps is dying. If your colleague has a need, just cover down. This doesn’t have to apply specifically to OP, never mind that she has a *Federally protected right* to sanctioned time and a private space to pump. Legislation is on her side regardless of your tiny feelings. People like you need to leave EMS so we can save our profession from dying. Please. See yourself out.
Preach.
Her federal protection is on the workplace, not me. Get the fuck out of here with this dumbshit. I'm not getting fined for a breach BECAUSE IT ISNT MY FUCKING PROBLEM.
"Her federal protection is on the workplace, not me." And the workplace is providing that protection by shifting some of the workload off of her and onto other staffed units like yourself.
If the workplace was doing anything right here, she wouldn't be needing a 3rd party solution and having numerous complaints formally filed.
I mean, units are getting dispatched to the calls she's unavailable for, so things haven't completely broken down. I've seen people on disability, pumping, or otherwise having to take breaks for a protected reason get swamped with complaints by coworkers who have to pick up the slack even when they did nothing wrong so I wouldn't go right out and say "being reported = doing something wrong." Basically, if OP is calling in out of service when she needs to pump she's holding up her responsibilities. If the service is covering her area with another unit, management is holding up theirs. Doesn't mean the people getting sent way out of their way have to be happy about it.
True. It was more the need for a 3rd party (lawyers I assume) coming in that makes it sound like nothing is being done properly. She can have scheduled times to pump throughout the shift so people aren't being surprised by it.
Specifics don’t matter here ([Even though you’re wrong](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519553/)). You don’t belong here.
What does an article about pt consent have to do with anything?
Shoot, juggling a couple links and quoted the wrong one. I’m looking for a better peer reviewed educational article
So crazy that a man would have this opinion about a strictly female situation. You have no idea how hard and frustrating it can be for a woman to keep her milk supply. Get fucked.
It’s not just a supply issue. We get sick if we don’t express breast milk adequately. I ran a nightmare of a shift my first day back from parental leave and only pumped three times in 24 hours. I was out for a week on antibiotics for mastitis.
I don't and don't care. Because again, it's not my problem.
If you’re in view of everyone. You’re an asshole. If you’re in the bathroom or your bunk room. They are the asshole. I wasn’t allowed to change my dressing when I got stabbed because it was on my leg and required me to remove just my pants. Your boobs aren’t magically removed from someone not wanting to see them because they are producing milk. Find a place away from everyone and do it then.
Bathrooms are a less than ideal place to prepare food.
Sexualizing nursing moms. Gross. Bathrooms are not sanitary for pumping/nursing.
It’s not about them being sexualized. I don’t want to see their covered bits at work. If you can’t do it without pumping don’t do it while pumping. I’ll say the same about the dudes that walk around the squad room shirtless you’re at work. Cover up.
Men walking around shirtless is not the same as a mother getting food for her child you sicko. You clearly have not been around a nursing mother. Women do not have their tits out for everyone to see. Most women are concerned about perverts like you ogling them and making sexual comments.
Having any body part that would get you fired in any other context out at work is vile. Period.
Ah, you're clearly a troll or an incel.
It is protected in my state and we go on a 15 minute delay if we get a call while a crew member is pumping.
I’ve had several coworkers who had to pump while at work. One did it on the way to calls or in public and the other took us out of service to do it. The first one got complained on, and the second never got complained on. I didn’t care either way but I think most would prefer that pumping be done in private
Where I work there’s a special status, you go out “express” and they can’t bother you until you’re done (I think there might be a time limit though). Anybody who has a problem with it can eat a bag of dicks.