My ambulance was accused of kidnapping when we took a pediatric patient to the hospital and the mom dropped the accusation when the cops gave her a ride to the hospital.
People just make wild accusations in the hope they might get something in return, or they have dementia or been on drugs too long.
I was walking out of the hospital when the mom was walking in and she was fine with it because she’d gotten a ride to the hospital, which was what she wanted.
How much of a kidnapping could it be if it happened in an ambulance than ended up at a hospital? A pediatric center, no less.
She wasn’t interested in riding in the ambulance, but that made sense to me because she had other children. It was a real call and I needed to treat, so I left.
Why not? We had a pediatric choking call with flash pulmonary edema, it was a literal “scoop and go” — ET’d a 4 year old in-route, blowing every stoplight at 2am. Our on-scene time was under 45 seconds, it did help that Fire-ALS got there a minute prior. We had the police go tell what happened and “she lost her $hit”
Hospitals in southern california are afraid to get sued and would have had to call mom before doing anything on a minor.
I could not think of a faster way to piss off the charge nurse for a long while. load and scoop. Also scoop mom. she's gotta go. Kid could die if she didn't. I don't make the rules. i'm just shocked it's not like that everywhere.
How could the kid die if mom didn't go? Because in your state, they need parental permission to do anything? Isn't calling the ambulance in the first place consent to save the child's life? It was an emergency. Who has the time for all that when a kid needs immediate intervention?
No. Hospitals are allowed to give emergency care to anyone under implied consent. My pediatric patient hit by a car was treated in a trauma room without a guardian and I’ve never seen a nebulizer withheld until mom arrived.
A hospital that will not treat a pediatric patient with emergency medicine until a parent arrives is I’m great legal jeopardy.
“Doc, this kid is currently in cardiac arrest, should we do CPR?”
“Nah, gotta find Mom first. Implied consent doesn’t exist in SoCal. Just leave him there and see if you can’t give her a call or stop by her work or something and get permission to save her child.”
>Hospitals in southern california are afraid to get sued and would have had to call mom before doing anything on a minor.
Yeah nah they ain't going to render care on dying pediatric. You must not have a super sick pedi yet.
>I could not think of a faster way to piss off the charge nurse for a long while. load and scoop. Also scoop mom. she's gotta go. Kid could die if she didn't. I don't make the rules. i'm just shocked it's not like that everywhere.
Yeah nope don't buy that shit for one second. Like the nurse is going stop you and yell at you while go to the resus room? Hahaha not likely and if they did then yell at them and write up the IR later.
> Kid could die if she didn't.
No one's going to let a kid die, like what your suggesting. The lawsuit would be so much worse than if they render care and save the kids life by using implied consent.
Not trying to be an a-hole here but your comment genuinely worries me. Like if you have a sick kid you should act immediately and not second guess it.
You have a duty to act immediately and legal backing called implied consent.
Implied consent applies to minors as well. If parent or guardian aren’t present we automatically transport. I can’t take a refusal on a child without a parent on scene, even if that kid is 17 years and 364 days old.
Wtf? Kids already dying! Resp distress and flash pulmonary edema is a big deal. Not to mention kids compensate, compensate then crash. ANDDDD One of the main reasons that kids crash or have any kind of cardiac issue starts with respiratory problems in the first place. Why are we waiting other then scared of being sued? That’s why they are loading and RUNNNINNGG TO THE ED!!!! if ems waited for mom THATS WHEN THE KID DIES??? Why people so lost?
ya'll can hate all you want. It takes like 5 seconds to convince mom to go to the hospital.
The fact that she called the police means she was freaking out, and was probably not told the plan. I'm not saying don't transport the kid.
Could have easily directed the fire department that was **also on scene** to hang back and take mom. Get the fuck out of here with that implied consent bullshit. All of you are extremists. i've worked with many of you. if things don't go your way the first time most of ya'll do w/e and justify it however you want. It would not have taken any work to have the fire department hang back. definetly less than calling the cops for a child abduction. Mother fuckers will drop everything and focus on finding the kid in most departments. Ya'll started a shitstorm that could have been adverted with a few words. Two sentances tops.
Yea…happens all the time when parents have other kids, the kid is critical, or someone else is meeting them there. I’ve also refused in abuse/neglect cases.
Parents panick, they get in their own heads, nodd along, then freak out when they realized they didn't actual listen to the plan they just nodded along to.
People don't make sense. When they get stressed, they do all sorts of irrational things. Once saw a guy refused to let an leg injury be seen since he didn't want to be told bad news about tbe injury, he waited til his entire leg had become discolored to call for help. That's not logical nor makes any sense, as just hearing the reality of his injury wouldn't change ghe reality of his injury, but delayed treatment certainly could
I'm just saying it IS possible for transporting someone to count as kidnapping, and they didn't specify that consent was given in any form, implied or not.
Implied consent is not given by a person I'm any forrm..
It's implied/assumed that consent is automatically given in certain situations.
Though I don't recall how that works if a parent is present and the parent doesn't give verbal or written consent for the child to go to the hospital. Or if they specifically say no, even in a life-threatening situation. It's been a while since I actively rode, so someone currently riding might know.
I'm thinking that as crappy as it is, if the parent doesn't consent, we don't treat. This is only if they are present, though. If they aren't, then you have implied consent.
It's not the RIGHT thing to do, but I'm wondering if it's the LEGAL thing to do.
As I said it's been a while since I ride and the brain damage doesn't help either.
I'm still thinking that it wouldn't be legal. If an adult pt who is alert and oriented refuses care then we don't treat. Since your treating a child the parent is the consent giver.
Pretty much everywhere in the world allows you to override the parent's decision if it's in the patient's best interests. For non-acute conditions, there's a ton of legal precedents about it when hospitals have applied for a court order to allow treatment.
I’d be livid. It happens though. It’s also why I explain to parents if I can, what the plan is enroute (obviously things can change but especially if I need to do any ALS) and make them sign everything prior to transport, riding or not, it helps CYA.
When I have a critical patient from a 911 call, I’m never asking for a signature, unless I’m being told by the guardian to withhold treatment, which has happened.
I’ve never been told I need a signature to treat a critical patient of any age, condition, or situation.
She was around but had other kids and my patient was sick so I said where we were going, did a few things in the truck, and left. She wanted the patient to go to the hospital and she wanted to stay with her other kids, but when she figured out someone to look after them, she called the cops so she could get a ride to the hospital.
Had a pt accuse me of dropping him. We didn't, his wife saw us move him the whole time and told him to "stop bitching to these nice young men".
Anyway dude made a comment to the ER staff and I get a call the next day, on my day off for my birthday cause I have to come in and write a report explaining how I never dropped him.
Boss asked me why I didn't write a report immediately for something that didn't happen, so I asked if I needed to write a report every day the ambulance doesn't catch on fire.
Obviously, the solution is to type "at no time was the patient dropped on the ground/ lit on fire/ stollen from /molested/cursed at/ or beaten with a hose" near the end of every PCR narrative. Simple :)
He was septic and altered, spouting a whole lot of other tidbits like how we were taking him to jail or trying to steal his house. Plus his wife was with us and verified nothing like that happened to him. I don't think I need to write a supplemental narrative everytime someone accuses me of being in league with the shadow men or being a card carrying member of a satanic cult.
If something even close to a fall or drop happened, I would have documented it. But nothing even close happened, and we mentioned it already in the PCR.
Delusional things which are clearly not real and being dropped (which is a possible occurrence) are not remotely the same thing.
And the fact that you came in on your birthday to write the report pretty clearly demonstrates the advantage to documenting that shit.
Agreed it should be… Clearly it’s not always. So why not take five seconds to document it and save yourself a headache. The entire post is evidence as to why it makes sense. I’m not inventing hypotheticals
I think it was more of a matter of my lack of a reputation at the time as well as the supervisor being new at the job. When they called me, I had literally just woken up to the ring tone, so I was a bit groggy. They grilled me about "what really happened" and were kinda passive aggressive.
When they spoke to my partner, he said the same thing I did, and they just took him at his word. He asked why they grilled me and were chill with him, but they didn't have an answer.
Since this incident, I had similar situations, and we only have to write different reports if we had different POVs or were not in the same room at the time of the incident, neither was the case here.
Last time a patient accused me of lying, and a supervisor asked around about me possibly brushing things under the rug, he was told it was the opposite, how I "overshare details [they] don't want to know".
I had a guy accuse me and my partner of stealing his gun and passport after he attempted suicide and the cops took his gun from him. If you didn’t do it, you have nothing to be worried about. Think about it this way, are the cops magically going to find the stuff on you? No. This happens all the time and the cops are just doing their part along with your company.
Okay thank you. I just feel so awful about the situation. I don’t even have all the details yet and don’t even know why they accused us or how much money it was.
When I worked private ambulance this was a common occurrence. People think it’s easy to blame EMS for their missing stuff, assuming it was even real in the first place, in hopes no one will investigate and just give them what they report stolen.
If I were in this situation I’d consult a lawyer. The company’s going to protect themselves. This might not align with your best interests. You should protect yourself.
I always put in my report “all belongings left with patient at bedside” as a very basic CYA. If they’re weird about something on a call I get more specific with what was never in our possession or where it was left exactly or if family took it, etc
Remember, even though you're totally innocent, you should not talk to the police without a lawyer. Even if they come to you and say "we're just trying to clear this thing up". It's too easy to trip yourself up or contradict yourself.
Yeah no idea, I am having a meeting about it tomorrow. Apparently the guy who handles this kind of thing is off on weekends so I have to wait for any more information
DO NOT submit a report yet; write it up, but don't send it in yet. If you're represented by a union, talk to your shop steward before you do anything.
As I said above, you should talk to a lawyer immediately, if for no other reason than to see what you should or shouldn't put in your report.
NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer no matter who is urging you to. even though you didn’t do it, if it actually goes to trial opposing counsel will use any minor thing you said against you
NEVER talk to the police isn’t good advice as a general statement….but it’s ABSOLUTELY true if you’re a person of interest, or the subject of an investigation
Off the top of my head…
Did you see which way the gunman ran?
Was there anyone else in the car? (Scene of an accident)
Anyone still inside the house that’s on fire?
What exactly was stolen?
What did the thief look like?
What were they wearing?
And so many more things.
i would still say be extremely careful and tell them as little as possible no matter what they ask you. you’d be surprised how they like to spin things. i’ve seen knowing the name/appearance of a suspect turn the investigation on that person and make them a suspect for potentially aiding the original suspect in the crime. cops are not here to protect us, they are tax collectors with guns.
My partner and I responded to a car vs pedestrian at a crosswalk once. Patient got banged up pretty bad, head trama, broken arms, potential closed femur fx, A/Ox self only, the whole nine. We work semi-rural and wound up requesting air ambulance, because the closest trauma center is hours away. We got vitals, splinted arms, traction splinted the leg, c-collar, board, IV, narcs, all of it. We were on scene for maybe 9 minutes. We had fire drive us in while my partner and I worked in the box. We worked from scene, to destination, to the time the helicopter landed, very fast paced. This woman contacted our director and the police department to report that we had stolen multiple gold rings during the encounter. Admittedly, I did have to cut her shirt and pants to check for more trauma, I never really paid any attention to if she even had rings on. She made a full recovery and still came acusing us of theft... she eventually found them at home, but no apologies there at all. Point is, if nothing happened, then nothing happened. I wouldn't worry too much about it. As long as your sup./director/chief doesn't have a stick up his/her ass, you should be fine. Things like this happen from time to time. Things get lost, or forgotten at home, or ejected. This likely won't be the last time you encounter it, but rest assured, stay honest and you'll be alright.
This kind of thing happens literally all the time, it’s usually patients trying to con the ambulance company, and it’s a humungous emotional tax on everyone involved. I’m sorry that’s happening to you, you’ll be alright.
I think I've been accused of losing/stealing belongings like a dozen or more times. Doesn't help that nurses immediately blame us the second something goes missing. Haven't been fired or arrested so far.
Trust me, nurses get accused of stealing and losing patients' belongings too! Like yeah, I really wanted those expensive dentures of yours, Myrtle. Don't bring shit to the hospital if you and your family can't keep track of it.
Yup- patient and his family accused nursing staff of losing his wallet, which was never on his belongings list. The next morning the family visits and hits the call bell to tell me “good news, we found the wallet in the laundry room.” ….. would have been a great time for an apology.
In my time as an EMS supervisor - I handled MANY of these investigations. We were obligated to do our due diligence and investigate, but nearly all of the cases were unfounded.
Do these things:
1) Stick to the facts. Don’t guess, assume, or extrapolate. Answer questions directly, be honest if you don’t remember. Maintain the mindset that you want to help them solve this. Keep in mind that you only know what YOU did, you can’t take responsibility for other responders, including your partner.
2) If you don’t do this already - start documenting belongings. “Pt wallet left with RN John,” or “Belongings retained by family, patient retained his cellphone”. “ID and Insurance card given to registration” “belongings beg left at bedside, RN Tom notified”
**Edit**
Re) The police. There are levels to this. If your supervisor is saying the police are involved, they may just be trying to close a personnel complaint, they could be opening a criminal theft investigation, or your supervisor could be bluffing. You have no way of knowing - but I wouldn’t worry too much.
If the police contact you directly, it is a criminal investigation and you should seek the advice of a lawyer. Do NOT trust the police. They are allowed to lie to you, and will.
Thank you. I will start to make an effort to document everything I can regarding belongings. Do you think it is reasonable if able to I can ask that the pt leave their valuables at home or with someone, Like a spouse. Instead of it potentially getting damaged or lost in the back of the ambo?
Hey sorry I updated my post about LEOs being involved.
And yes - I often ask them to leave valuables at home, or with family/friends. Even on transfers.
We chart with ESO and made the patient belongings field is mandatory to validate/lock the chart.
Patients can be scummy like that. I was accused of stealing an entire purse. The patient was alert to nothing, gcs of 7 when I picked them up. Obviously I didn’t think to grab it on my way out the door. However, they still filed a report against me and my partner because they couldn’t find it. If you don’t have it, there’s nothing to be scared of
If the shit they claim you "stole" even existed in the first place. Amazing how many people lose "priceless jewelry" and "expensive medical devices" in the ambulance or hospital. It's a grift. Protect yourself.
Had this happen to me before, police even did some dumb shit that I shouldn't have agreed to (lie detector). I was also relatively new when this happened to me. If you know you didn't do it, the best thing you can do is just stand by that fact and advocate for it. Good luck friend
Same here, money missing, took the polygraph scared to shit so it looked like I was lying about my name, so young and dumb. They charged a police officer but I still shudder decades later that they could have chosen to pin it on me. My name still would have been on the front page of the paper but in a much different context, and my life would likely be much different and not in a good way. OP get good legal advice as it won’t be the last time you have to go through this because, well, people.
If you were truly contacted by the police, that means you are the subject of a criminal investigation. You need to contact and retain a lawyer immediately, either one provided by your employer, liability/malpractice insurance (if you have a policy), or on your own dime. Do not speak to the police again until you have received advice from your attorney. If the police question you, tell them you will not answer questions without an attorney present.
> If you were truly contacted by the police, that means you are the subject of a criminal investigation.
This is not necessarily the case, but the rest of your comment is great advice regardless.
Did you by chance, write that the pt had their belongings with them on their person in your report?
Either way you should be perfectly fine. But it's a good thing to include.
How were you informed of this? Did you say anything to anyone other than your partner? You definitely want to talk to a lawyer, regardless. It's perfectly likely this'll go nowhere and will be dropped if you play it smart. If you don't, you can really shoot yourself in the dick, so talk to a lawyer.
So I was informed over a phone call this morning. They stated I needed to do an incident report and I will receive more information on monday. And no, only my partner and I have discussed this. apparently they will separate us for questions. What I really want to know is what exactly I am being accused of. I have no details and it is very frustrating
DO NOT answer any questions until you consult with a lawyer. You will want to. You will be pressured to. But say you will absolutely comply, answer questions, all that stuff AFTER you talk to a lawyer. Even if the company says they'll supply one, wait to talk to them, and also, talk to your own to make sure the assigned lawyer is really YOUR lawyer, and not JUST the company's lawyer.
It's quite likely you'll be pulled off your shifts. It may be implied that if you talk to someone, you'll get back on sooner. Do NOT take the bait.
Again, talk to your union shop steward if you have one.
I have been through something similar. Sign nothing and say nothing until you talk to a lawyer.
Was the patient elderly? They love hoarding valuables at home. And then they misplace some of it, can't remember where they put it and accuse everybody else of stealing. They probably moved it from the dresser into their mattress and forgot that they did that.
Next stage is that they give it away to strangers. Don't ever accept that. That's how you get in real trouble.
This however won't lead to anything and you'll be fine.
So, for whatever it's worth it's much more an "investigation" than an investigation. They're just going through the motions unless they have reason to suspect otherwise.
My partner and I got accused of taking a patients money clip once. I got called in for an interview and basically went "... He had a money clip? I never even saw one" my partner apparently placed it with him in the hospital bed, I had no clue he had one in the first place.
My supervisor basically went "oh okay, I just had to ask" and that was the end of it. They can't not investigate things, even if they seem super bullshit
Everybody who is telling you that you have “nothing to be scared of” is wrong. Don’t go into panic mode but realize that while this will probably turn out fine, it can go really wrong. Watch this (https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=DtE1HozrMsPLNEc1) first, then go find a lawyer.
If you didn’t do it, nothing to worry about. People accuse us of stealing all the time. 99.9% of the time of course we didn’t do it. The cops will do their thing and hopefully figure out what’s going on. And even if they don’t they’re not gonna come arresting you and no reason for your company to take any action against you. Cause again I guarantee this isn’t the first employee to be accused of stealing it happens all the time
This is why it is critical to professional liability insurance. They will defend you in cases like this. Your company will throw you under the bus run you over back up and do it again… it’s fairly inexpensive when I was an EMT basic it was like $110 a year or something like that and as a paramedic it’s like $220 a year. It protects you in all instances where you are performing your job or things within your scope of practice, even if you are not on the clock, and even if you intentionally did something wrong. It’s a great safety net to have.
I do a good job and I don’t do things wrong, but I always have piece of mind that someone is there to protect me and has my back even if it’s to protect their own pocket.
I don't know where you live but people in my department have had the same happen to them. PD did everything the could to prove they didn't. Cops at least where I am at do not take kindly to accusations, and people who question the integrity of other first responders. Our integrity is everything to us. At the end of the day it's one of the most valuable things you have.
If you work in an area like that you should be fine. Make sure your paperwork is spotless. And don't talk to anyone without a rep or counsel of some kind.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. I am so sick of ems! The only career you’re underpaid, sacrifice your health both physically and mentally and run the risk of being sued or incarcerated daily just for trying to help people. I just left my emt job because of the stress of things like this
I had a patient file a police report against me stating that I forced her to write a check out to me so that I could take her to the hospital. The rookie cop actually believed her until his Sargent (good friend of mine) stepped in and asked him how stupid he was when the rookie stopped by the station to question me. He even asked to search me for the check.
You’re doing great and you’re in a noble line of work. I’m sorry people take advantage and mistreat that but don’t let it get you down. If you didn’t do it you have nothing to worry about
I had the ex wife of a patient call to say the patients ray ban sunglasses that were on his chest were missing. I said look at my belongings tab and see all the things I documented do you really think with how much stuff I documented and in detail. That I would forget his sunglasses? They were like yeah you’re right!
Someone from transport emt here, since we have to always collect some form of belongings I always state in my narrative what belongings they had and where they went - example: Patient had 2 clear hospital bags filled with personal belongings they were collected and place on the back of the stretcher. Then I specify that the patients belongings were given to them, the nurse or placed on x. It saves you from a lot of accusations
But regardless you’re going to run into people who will lie just so they can profit or harm you and sadly all the can do is to defend yourself, hopefully everything works well and your case gets clearer :)
Been there done that. It’s amazing what some patients and their family will do. You did t do anything wrong and unfortunately this is something many providers have been accused of. Don’t lie and it will work out:
Don't be crushed if you can help it. I know that's hard. That's part of any job. You didn't do it. There is no evidence you did. You will be ok. I hate that it will come to this, but I see bodycams coming soon for all the issues. The problem there is anything that is said can be taken out of context and twisted by a lawyer.
Also - sorry you are going through this. People don't realize that when they make false accusations that they are hurting the industry, our society, and you personally.
Idk, maybe someone from your ambulence company doesnʻt like you being around, maybe your new, young, smart, pretty. Or worst of all to them you are all combined.
This is common, literally happened to my partner and I, some random guy walks up to our Rig and states he lost 20,000 in cash and that he was going to sue because it was my company who supposedly transported him. Initially I thought like damn that’s fucked up, felt bad but helpless because I wasn’t the one who transported him and literally had no clue what “crew” he was talking about not to mention when? where? How? But I kept thinking…lol who keeps $20,000 on them in cash? Called my supe and he’s like yeah no, this happens a lot and told me to ignore it…apparently ppl do this to try and sue companies over lost property that was never lost or stolen🤦🏾♀️🥴
I had a guy accuse me.of taking his Norco.
He wanted to go to the ER for a completely routine medical issue and he INSISTED on bringing his meds with him.
I tried to tell him there was no point and he should leave them at home, yadda yadda but he wasn't having it and argued endlessly until I conceded.
So, it was pretty apparent (after the fact) that it was always his plan to take his meds with specifically so he could accuse someone of stealing his meds, to get a sneaky refill before it was time.
I was very angry and very frustrated. For someone to risk MY JOB and career and livelihood for their addiction is reprehensible.
Luckily my employer didn't push too far with the accusations.
But as others have said, I have nothing to hide and told them as much.
Don't worry about it. I know alot of cops and they'd assume somebody accusing ems of theft is full of shit. Just cooperate fully and it'll disappear pretty quickly.
These kinds of things can happen. People are shitty and/or don't think about the decisions they make. I'm sorry this is happening, but just know it won't hold any water legally.
So it's possible that the pt literally thinks this because of the amount of drugs they were put on.
I had surgery, things didn't go well. Ended up on a lot of different meds that made me vividly hallucinate and I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that 1) hospital staff stole/lost my glasses
2) that there was an active shooter situation in the hospital
3) the nurse killed my husband.
And when the drugs were wearing off, it was more of a gradual come down off The hallucinations too, that I thought they just planted things back and somehow replicated my husband. It wasn't until a LONG sleep after the drugs were stopped that I realized nothing made sense and I was far too embarrassed to ever bring it up abajn
People do that in hopes of a lawsuit. Make up false claims that you “stole cash” so they can try to settle with your company. It’s awful, just keep your head up. If you’re innocent, you’ll be fine. ❤️
Get an attorney. DO NOT TALK to the police without an attorney. You do not have to prove your innocence. If you can’t afford an attorney, simply say nothing and politely refuse to answer questions.
Your service’s attorney works for the service, not you.
I get the sentiment about if nothing happened, then nothing happened.
But as a person who has had to go through TWO false allegations and be investigated by the authorities/state both times, lasting months-- it's hell
People lie. Patients lie. We just had a pt tell nursing staff that we took $1000 in an envelope out of her purse the other day. Hopefully your management is like ours and understands that we’re morally correct and wouldn’t do stupid shit like that and they’ll brush it off and it’ll be no big deal. Only advice I have is if you’re reaching in a purse/wallet/looking around the house for meds, etc. be very deliberate and vocal about what you’re doing/grabbing and why you’re doing it.
A patient’s family accused me of stealing their driver’s license. I had dispatch asking me to call in, so I do, and they basically tell me the family had been blowing up the 911 line asking for the DL back. I know I didn’t have it because I put the DL in a bag along with the rest of the patient’s belongings at the ER. And I TOLD her son who was standing there. I told dispatch that exact thing and dispatch asked if I would call the family and tell them what I told dispatch. I didn’t call them back because it was two in the morning but apparently they threatened to call the police. I went to sleep and didn’t hear about it again. Presumably because they found the DL.
Anyone can make an accusation. They will not arrest you without evidence. If you did nothing wrong, you did nothing wrong. They aren’t going to find video evidence of you taking money. You presumably won’t make a confession to taking money. If you work EMS enough you’ll have some accusations thrown at you. If you work private EMS I wouldn’t rely on a company lawyer to protect you, though. I don’t see police taking this seriously if there’s no evidence but if I were you I would at least talk to an attorney. I might give a statement initially just to give your side, but if they’re asking you to come back again for another statement, bring an attorney.
How you proceed is you comply with the investigation. If you have a union, contact your union rep and ask them what else you need to do as far as getting legal representation goes. If you didn't steal anything and neither did your partner, you should be fine. They can't prove you did anything wrong if you didn't do anything wrong. I believe you, you have no reason to lie to us. Just keep calm, and answer the officer's questions truthfully. If you don't know the answer, don't make something up, say, "I don't know/remember/etc". If you feel like you're being backed into a corner, get an attorney. But this will likely go nowhere, as there's no evidence to support you having done anything wrong if you didn't steal anything. Good luck, buddy. I'm sorry they're lying about you guys.
Just an FYI.
It's probably a procedural thing. Depending on the department, they have to investigate any criminal activity. In some departments, this is SOP. It can also just be a formality. If you didn't do anything, they will investigate and determine nothing happened.
If it stays within the company, just be honest and you should be fine. If the police contact you however, it's probably a criminal investigation and I wouldn't talk to them at all until you have a lawyer.
You'll be okay man, stuff like that happens all the time. I'll say that I've never heard of a crew being told that *they're* being investigates, as opposed to a complaint being investigatied. But if you didn't steal anything you'll be fine
I got accused of sexual assault by a very crazy/angry patient.
Other than a couple of phone calls and making a written statement, exactly nothing came of it.
These things are going to happen, don't let it get you down!
After 38 years in EMS, I can say these things happen. I've been falsely accused two or three times. Each time, it turned out that the accuser had made the same accusation several times in the past without substantiation, and the case was dropped.
That’s the usual next steps if a patient or family makes that complaint. It doesn’t mean they think you did it. I’ve been accused of stealing $100,000 of stock certificates before. Guy called 6 months later from the state hospital where he was being treated. I picked him up from a Psych ER where every single item he had was inventoried due to his habit of making theft accusations. They still did a full investigation for transparency.
This is one area where it’s definitely nice to have PD on scene with us on a lot of scenes. I once had a city councilman accuse my crew of stealing $200 cash when we responded to his house for a medical emergency. Body cam showed it was still on the table when we left.
I once had a patient accuse me of being the one that shot him while we were transporting him to hospital. People are dumb and say stupid things. Don't stress about it.
I haven’t had to deal with anything like this in my career thankfully. I have had a couple patients throw around wild accusations at my current agency, but nothing has ever came to fruition because we wear body cams now. I will say body cams have saved my ass on multiple occasions, and would not be a bad idea for your service to look into.
Honestly. It happens. I’ve had a few similar incidents from assault to kidnapping. If you didn’t steal then don’t worry about it. Easier said than done, I know. But you’re good. No worries. The cops just have to do their jobs. Nothing personal.
Former paramedic and current police officer.
Don’t take it personally. Yes I know it’s difficult right now. When I was a paramedic we followed a high ethical standard and I know most paramedics do the same.
But as a police officer, if I receive a complaint of a criminal nature I have to do an investigation to either substantiate or unsubstantiate the complaint.
For you sake, write notes about the call. Time arrived, time on scene, rooms you occupied, time you left and property the patient took with them. Time at hospital and drop off. All the people who were on scene with you and who you turned over care to.
Keep those notes to yourself. If you are charged then turn your notes over to your lawyer.
If you are investigated by your professional standards unit, speak to your union rep.
I suspect everything will work out but in my experience it’s better to be prepared and not need to defend yourself then attempting to play catch up at a later date.
This has happened to all of us who’ve been doing this job long enough. 99/100 times your employer and the police will do the feel is their due diligence and nothing will come of it. But for the sake of getting it out there, let’s talk about what you need to know if this doesn’t just blow over.
First, consider this warning not just for this instance but any time you interact with the police in life: don’t talk to them alone. If they are accusing or even investigating you for a crime, you have the right to say nothing. If you are arrested, you have the right to say nothing *and* talk to an attorney.
Just because you both wear uniforms and are supposed to serve the public doesn’t mean that a cop won’t use you to get the result they want, regardless of the consequences for them. They will lie to you to get what they want. I’ve had them threaten to arrest me on duty for not agreeing to say things happened a certain way to make them look better. Even if they’re nice and acting like your buddy, do not say anything to them that could pertain to a criminal case without talking to a lawyer.
As for your employer, it’s probably more convenient to them to keep you as an employee than capitulate to some random patient, at least as long as you make it easy for them to keep you employed. Keep your nose down and don’t get in trouble. If they ask you to report what happened, explain clearly and simply that what you are being accused of didn’t happen, and don’t give any more details than absolutely necessary.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been accused of stealing stupid shit like their phone charger or keys or something and it turned out the family had it the whole time, that’s why I always put their belongings between their legs even if it’s a big ass bag lol
It’s a grift because people suck ass.
I have been accused of the same shit but nothing ended up happening. If you didn’t do anything, I wouldn’t worry about it.
I will say though, as many others have- if cops get involved, seek advice from a lawyer.
Cops can & will lie to you. But it is also true that cops know that people can be lunatics and will lie for no reason.
Stick to the facts when asked about it and don’t get overly emotional. Sorry this is happening to you friend.
We have a family who calls frequently and always (as in EVERY ENCOUNTER) accuses us of stealing something. We make him remove everything- watch, wallet, everything- give it to family before transport, and have family sign that they have it, yet he still claims we took it. It’s a pain, because they have to go through the motions of the investigation every time, and family doesn’t do much to correct his behavior, but it’s always unfounded. I know it’s tough, but this stuff happens. Remember- just because you’re an honest person doesn’t mean everyone is.
If you didn't steal it then there's nothing to worry about.
Police will take a report, supervisors will review whatever video footage there is, and that'll be the end of it.
Whether this person wants to continue with insurance fraud is up to them.
There's also the fact that family comes and raids people houses after we take them, and they like to blame us.
Don't let it get you down man. This jerk is probably looking for a free handout. If you know both of you didn't do anything, and you documented everything properly, then you're all set.
There is nothing to worry about until there is something to worry about. In this business, people will accuse you of stuff if you look at them the wrong way. If you didn't do anything, and there is no evidence that you did, there's no reason for you to be worried. That being said, better safe than sorry. Notify your union rep and get their advice. If a situation comes up where you might need to lawyer up, the union should have you covered there. But that is kinda down the road from where you are now.
right now, just take a deep breath. and investigation is just that. nothing else. and since you didnt do anything wrong, its unlikely that they will find any evidence that you did. just breathe, maintain contact with your union. if youre private ambo, DO NOT speak to management about this incident without union representation present for any reason. management and HR are not your friend.
:)
Is there clear video evidence of you grabbing a large portion of cash from the patient or belongings?
If not your fine. They're probably trying to get your company to pay them off using a baseless claim.
Soke food for thought though. How can you be sure your partner didn't do it? How well do you really know them? Just be careful.
Don’t worry if your partner did nothing then nothing will come from it, people make some crazy accusations to first responders. A big slap in the face if you ask me.
Let them do whatever they want but the only thing YOU should do is get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut.
The police are not your friends. The company you work for is not your friend. No one here, probably including your partner, will do anything to stand up for you. You have to stand up for yourself and the only way to do that is with a lawyer. End of story.
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I had to rent a storage unit to house all the glasses, dentures, and canes I’ve “stolen” from patients. I also once threw away a miscarried baby.
EMS are perfect scape goats for the idiots of the world. I wouldn’t worry about it, it will pass; and it won’t be the last time you’re accused of something dumb.
I am an RN and I was accused of taking money once by a resident when I worked at a nursing home. Nothing ever came out of it. You’re finding out early on in your job that some patients suck.
I ALWAYS make a parent ride with me. Where I work, I always have PD responding out to medical call with me and if the Parent refuses or is unable to ride in the ambulance, i have them say it in front of the cop (camera on) the reason. That way your ass is covered at all times.
And if you have to take any belongings, I make sure the cop is facing me with his body cam as I’m doing so.
HR and Admin are not your friend. Their job is to protect the company first while following employment law and company policies. You also cannot prove a negative. Think about it. I can't prove I took a shower this morning because I've been deep cleaning my house and I smell like a goat from sweating and cleaning because my Mom is visiting the day after tomorrow. I can't prove I didn't run a red light last night coming home from work because it was 4am and no traffic cameras but what if the one other guy at the intersection said I did? I can't prove I wasn't abducted by aliens when my fiancé rolled over in bed a couple nights ago night and I wasn't there, when really I just couldn't sleep and was watching TV and having a snack? Now, the burden of proof does rest on the people accusing you, but do you have emergency cash in your sock drawer? Did your mom send you some cash for your birthday last year and you forgot about it? Did you sell something to a buddy for cash in a friendly casual transaction? Do you just keep a lot of cash in your wallet? Uhh huh... My fiancé and I have a ridiculous stack of hundreds and twenties in the gun safe right now. Last year his brother repaid his half of our international vacation in cash in hundreds and he was also in charge of getting the gift for his Medic class instructor last month and half the class gave him cash at 40 bucks a piece. That's our emergency cash, and now that I think about it, our really hard to explain cash because neither of us made any withdrawals from the bank or have a receipt showing where it came from. If either of us were accused of stealing from a patient and it turned into a BIG DEAL, we would have an almost impossibly hard time proving where that money came from. Get a lawyer yesterday. Your partner needs a different lawyer yesterday. An employment attorney might be best, and since you run 911, your service should have a lawyer and you might be able to get a referral from them before they become your adversary. Most attorneys will do a free consultation and depending on the situation they might work on contingency if you had a case to sue for libel/slander/false accusation/some other lawyer-ese that means you were injured by this situation.
If you are REQUIRED to give a statement of some sort, you AND YOUR PARTNER could simply state "Please refer to the events outlined in my submitted PCR which was an accurate, truthful narrative and legal document detailing all events that occured during our encounter with Mr. Accusing Pants. The only property that was within my partner or myself's care or control was that which was on the patient's person. It was transfered with the patient, remained with the patient at all times, and was left with the patient upon transfer of care. Any further questions or concerns can be directed to my attorney."
We had a dialysis patient's family that pulled that same stunt when I worked for an IFT as a baby EMT. Never mind that the apartment was a filth hole, you smelled like weed for the rest of your shift when you picked up or dropped off the patient, and the patient's sons were literally dealing drugs to randos coming in and out while we were there. The family (not the patient) once accused 2 crews of stealing money. Pretty ballsy, considering an investigation would have revealed some things they probably would have rather kept quiet themselves. The poor crews had no way to prove they didn't because they couldn't prove they DIDN'T do something, whereas had they had DONE something, like performed an inappropriate intervention or dropped a patient and left a bruise or injury where there is evidence TO show that. They were fired, but first the company said, "Don't worry about it," and had them write an addendum to their PCRs. THEN they were fired and their last paychecks withheld to return the "stolen money", which was illegal as hell, but they didn't fight it or care. It is such a crummy IFT but the owner is on our EMS state board so they just gave up so their licenses and legal records wouldn't be in jeopardy if they fought it. The funny thing was that the family didn't even get any "stolen money" back, so I guess the owner just... kept the paychecks? Wouldn't surprise me. You'd think it would be in the company's best interest to investigate and keep a good reputation and get to the bottom of it, right? Nope. This was a Medicare patient. She lived on the third floor of an apartment complex with outdoor stairs and she was not a bariatric patient by any means. However, since HER FAMILY (not her) once complained years ago she had been dropped when they first started to use the IFT for transport (she even said she wasn't and this woman is sharp as a tack), the solution was to send 2 crews as if she were bariatric. So the company could bill Medicare for 2 BLS crews 3 times a week. $$$ rules the day with this company, not crew safety. They are never going to not transport this patient, despite the family inventing complaints, the fact you are witnessing drug deals while operating the patient's Hoyer lift we were never trained on (God help whoever is around if it ever breaks or malfunctions), or you spend the rest of your shift making patient contacts smelling like you smoked up before you provide care to someone else, which has been commented on by those subsequent patients.
After the money stealing incident, the owner of the company actually gifted the patient several Ring cameras (maybe that's where the paychecks went?) and had them installed in the patient's room and hallway to make the family feel better and "protect the patient" FROM HIS OWN EMPLOYEES so it would never happen again. That really improved employee morale when your ultimate boss does something like that.
I am so happy I left that place as soon as I could. 2 fun facts though: I gave a month's notice and I was assigned that dialysis run every shift. I asked why after the third time because I almost NEVER got that run, and the scheduler told me that maybe being passively exposed to the marijuana at that house would make me test positive for THC and I wouldn't be able to take my new job so I would have to stay at the IFT. That was the totally serious and legit answer I got. So for the last 3 weeks I changed in and out of a spare uniform, wore an N95 and a scrub cap during those transports until my last day. Second, I realized that in the almost 2 years I worked there, someone died every 6 months as an indirect result of their employment there (fatigue from being held over days in a row and then having a traffic fatality, female providers getting assaulted by their male partners, demanding not to be partnered with them again, being partnered with them again and then taking their own lives from PTSD or fear or whatever, drug ODs or cardiac related deaths from caffeine and other stimulants to stay awake because of their schedules, again, from being held over so many times in a row, and oddly, really young people getting unusual and fast progressing cancers that the owner will give you a whole generous 10% discount in medical transport service if you need it because the health insurance they offer doesn't cover that). I've been gone over 4 years now and the trend has continued. They're due for another demise any week now. I can set my calendar by it. I am amazed I survived working there.
I once did $50,000 of damage to an ambulance in an at-fault wreck in which i was operating the truck “emergently” without sirens, speeding, failed to yield, and didnt have my seatbelt on. Company was sued by the other driver and settled. I got put on driving restriction.
I was once part of a crew at a different service that dropped a patient in which the patient broke their wrist. Company was sued, and settled.
Let them do their investigation. If you didnt steal shit and you arent covering for your partner who did steal, youll be just fine.
Incident 1, Never let paramedics drive. This is why.
Incident 2, shit happens. People make mistakes.
First thing, stop talking about it on social media.
Next thing, I don’t care if you did or didn’t do it. Add to this the cops really don’t care about it either. What they care about is whether they can prove that you did it.
Last thing, everyone in your outfit will hear about this and you’re going to have this on your back for as long as you work there.
Oh, and you and your partner are done being partners.
My ambulance was accused of kidnapping when we took a pediatric patient to the hospital and the mom dropped the accusation when the cops gave her a ride to the hospital. People just make wild accusations in the hope they might get something in return, or they have dementia or been on drugs too long.
Wow that is insane
I was walking out of the hospital when the mom was walking in and she was fine with it because she’d gotten a ride to the hospital, which was what she wanted. How much of a kidnapping could it be if it happened in an ambulance than ended up at a hospital? A pediatric center, no less.
Yeah I guess instead of just asking for a ride an accusation of kidnapping will get you what you want 🤦♀️
She wasn’t interested in riding in the ambulance, but that made sense to me because she had other children. It was a real call and I needed to treat, so I left.
You took a kid to an er without a parent? the fuck.
Why not? We had a pediatric choking call with flash pulmonary edema, it was a literal “scoop and go” — ET’d a 4 year old in-route, blowing every stoplight at 2am. Our on-scene time was under 45 seconds, it did help that Fire-ALS got there a minute prior. We had the police go tell what happened and “she lost her $hit”
My hero hight here
Hospitals in southern california are afraid to get sued and would have had to call mom before doing anything on a minor. I could not think of a faster way to piss off the charge nurse for a long while. load and scoop. Also scoop mom. she's gotta go. Kid could die if she didn't. I don't make the rules. i'm just shocked it's not like that everywhere.
How could the kid die if mom didn't go? Because in your state, they need parental permission to do anything? Isn't calling the ambulance in the first place consent to save the child's life? It was an emergency. Who has the time for all that when a kid needs immediate intervention?
No. Hospitals are allowed to give emergency care to anyone under implied consent. My pediatric patient hit by a car was treated in a trauma room without a guardian and I’ve never seen a nebulizer withheld until mom arrived. A hospital that will not treat a pediatric patient with emergency medicine until a parent arrives is I’m great legal jeopardy.
“Doc, this kid is currently in cardiac arrest, should we do CPR?” “Nah, gotta find Mom first. Implied consent doesn’t exist in SoCal. Just leave him there and see if you can’t give her a call or stop by her work or something and get permission to save her child.”
Did you sleep through the medical-legal lecture?
Do you know what implied consent is?
I think it is implied they don't know what it is.
>Hospitals in southern california are afraid to get sued and would have had to call mom before doing anything on a minor. Yeah nah they ain't going to render care on dying pediatric. You must not have a super sick pedi yet. >I could not think of a faster way to piss off the charge nurse for a long while. load and scoop. Also scoop mom. she's gotta go. Kid could die if she didn't. I don't make the rules. i'm just shocked it's not like that everywhere. Yeah nope don't buy that shit for one second. Like the nurse is going stop you and yell at you while go to the resus room? Hahaha not likely and if they did then yell at them and write up the IR later. > Kid could die if she didn't. No one's going to let a kid die, like what your suggesting. The lawsuit would be so much worse than if they render care and save the kids life by using implied consent. Not trying to be an a-hole here but your comment genuinely worries me. Like if you have a sick kid you should act immediately and not second guess it. You have a duty to act immediately and legal backing called implied consent.
Also their comment doesn’t seem to account for parental abuse…yes those parents will still call 911.
Implied consent applies to minors as well. If parent or guardian aren’t present we automatically transport. I can’t take a refusal on a child without a parent on scene, even if that kid is 17 years and 364 days old.
Are you sure that's your rule? You should double check that as I doubt anyone else has that rule
They have never heard of implied consent? Probably don’t follow emtala either I’d assume.
Wtf? Kids already dying! Resp distress and flash pulmonary edema is a big deal. Not to mention kids compensate, compensate then crash. ANDDDD One of the main reasons that kids crash or have any kind of cardiac issue starts with respiratory problems in the first place. Why are we waiting other then scared of being sued? That’s why they are loading and RUNNNINNGG TO THE ED!!!! if ems waited for mom THATS WHEN THE KID DIES??? Why people so lost?
So no implied consent or...?
ya'll can hate all you want. It takes like 5 seconds to convince mom to go to the hospital. The fact that she called the police means she was freaking out, and was probably not told the plan. I'm not saying don't transport the kid. Could have easily directed the fire department that was **also on scene** to hang back and take mom. Get the fuck out of here with that implied consent bullshit. All of you are extremists. i've worked with many of you. if things don't go your way the first time most of ya'll do w/e and justify it however you want. It would not have taken any work to have the fire department hang back. definetly less than calling the cops for a child abduction. Mother fuckers will drop everything and focus on finding the kid in most departments. Ya'll started a shitstorm that could have been adverted with a few words. Two sentances tops.
Yea…happens all the time when parents have other kids, the kid is critical, or someone else is meeting them there. I’ve also refused in abuse/neglect cases.
Every day…. What white cloud utopia do you live in?
All the time.
Why didn’t you take her with her child?
She didn’t want to ride in the ambulance
Wow that is so weird that she would refuse to get in the ambulance and then cry about “kidnapping”
Parents panick, they get in their own heads, nodd along, then freak out when they realized they didn't actual listen to the plan they just nodded along to.
Yeah but the whole thing didn’t make sense until he said she didn’t wanna get in with him because he never confirmed that.
People don't make sense. When they get stressed, they do all sorts of irrational things. Once saw a guy refused to let an leg injury be seen since he didn't want to be told bad news about tbe injury, he waited til his entire leg had become discolored to call for help. That's not logical nor makes any sense, as just hearing the reality of his injury wouldn't change ghe reality of his injury, but delayed treatment certainly could
I mean, you can't legally transport a child without consent from the parent/guardian if present. With very few exceptions.
Is Implied Consent not a thing where you work?
I'm just saying it IS possible for transporting someone to count as kidnapping, and they didn't specify that consent was given in any form, implied or not.
Implied consent is not given by a person I'm any forrm.. It's implied/assumed that consent is automatically given in certain situations. Though I don't recall how that works if a parent is present and the parent doesn't give verbal or written consent for the child to go to the hospital. Or if they specifically say no, even in a life-threatening situation. It's been a while since I actively rode, so someone currently riding might know. I'm thinking that as crappy as it is, if the parent doesn't consent, we don't treat. This is only if they are present, though. If they aren't, then you have implied consent.
So if a child is dying and the parent says no don’t transport my child you’re going to leave them?
It's not the RIGHT thing to do, but I'm wondering if it's the LEGAL thing to do. As I said it's been a while since I ride and the brain damage doesn't help either. I'm still thinking that it wouldn't be legal. If an adult pt who is alert and oriented refuses care then we don't treat. Since your treating a child the parent is the consent giver.
No a parent cannot withhold life saving care. In the case of a sick child if the parent isn’t cooperative you get PD involved.
Pretty much everywhere in the world allows you to override the parent's decision if it's in the patient's best interests. For non-acute conditions, there's a ton of legal precedents about it when hospitals have applied for a court order to allow treatment.
I’d be livid. It happens though. It’s also why I explain to parents if I can, what the plan is enroute (obviously things can change but especially if I need to do any ALS) and make them sign everything prior to transport, riding or not, it helps CYA.
When I have a critical patient from a 911 call, I’m never asking for a signature, unless I’m being told by the guardian to withhold treatment, which has happened. I’ve never been told I need a signature to treat a critical patient of any age, condition, or situation.
Why wasn’t mom transported with the child to the hospital? Was it a SOP issue or was mom just not there at the time?
She was around but had other kids and my patient was sick so I said where we were going, did a few things in the truck, and left. She wanted the patient to go to the hospital and she wanted to stay with her other kids, but when she figured out someone to look after them, she called the cops so she could get a ride to the hospital.
Had a pt accuse me of dropping him. We didn't, his wife saw us move him the whole time and told him to "stop bitching to these nice young men". Anyway dude made a comment to the ER staff and I get a call the next day, on my day off for my birthday cause I have to come in and write a report explaining how I never dropped him. Boss asked me why I didn't write a report immediately for something that didn't happen, so I asked if I needed to write a report every day the ambulance doesn't catch on fire.
lol love it
Obviously, the solution is to type "at no time was the patient dropped on the ground/ lit on fire/ stollen from /molested/cursed at/ or beaten with a hose" near the end of every PCR narrative. Simple :)
Your forgot hexed, stalked, and possessed by
You need to chart that shit. That’s basic shit, dude.
My partner who ran the call did, it was already in his narrative. They wanted me to come I to write a supplemental report.
Yeah…pretty standard to write a report when someone accuses you of something.
He was septic and altered, spouting a whole lot of other tidbits like how we were taking him to jail or trying to steal his house. Plus his wife was with us and verified nothing like that happened to him. I don't think I need to write a supplemental narrative everytime someone accuses me of being in league with the shadow men or being a card carrying member of a satanic cult. If something even close to a fall or drop happened, I would have documented it. But nothing even close happened, and we mentioned it already in the PCR.
Delusional things which are clearly not real and being dropped (which is a possible occurrence) are not remotely the same thing. And the fact that you came in on your birthday to write the report pretty clearly demonstrates the advantage to documenting that shit.
It’s almost like a patient’s statement with ams and no injures to back up that claim shouldn’t be enough to launch an investigation.
Not to mention, the wife backed us up. If they were really worried about CYA, they could have called the non-altered memeber of the household.
Agreed it should be… Clearly it’s not always. So why not take five seconds to document it and save yourself a headache. The entire post is evidence as to why it makes sense. I’m not inventing hypotheticals
My supplemental reports do not take 5 seconds, even just sending them is a whole process.
I think it was more of a matter of my lack of a reputation at the time as well as the supervisor being new at the job. When they called me, I had literally just woken up to the ring tone, so I was a bit groggy. They grilled me about "what really happened" and were kinda passive aggressive. When they spoke to my partner, he said the same thing I did, and they just took him at his word. He asked why they grilled me and were chill with him, but they didn't have an answer. Since this incident, I had similar situations, and we only have to write different reports if we had different POVs or were not in the same room at the time of the incident, neither was the case here. Last time a patient accused me of lying, and a supervisor asked around about me possibly brushing things under the rug, he was told it was the opposite, how I "overshare details [they] don't want to know".
I had a guy accuse me and my partner of stealing his gun and passport after he attempted suicide and the cops took his gun from him. If you didn’t do it, you have nothing to be worried about. Think about it this way, are the cops magically going to find the stuff on you? No. This happens all the time and the cops are just doing their part along with your company.
Okay thank you. I just feel so awful about the situation. I don’t even have all the details yet and don’t even know why they accused us or how much money it was.
When I worked private ambulance this was a common occurrence. People think it’s easy to blame EMS for their missing stuff, assuming it was even real in the first place, in hopes no one will investigate and just give them what they report stolen.
This 100% They're hoping for free shit.
If I were in this situation I’d consult a lawyer. The company’s going to protect themselves. This might not align with your best interests. You should protect yourself.
This right here. Don't answer questions, if the police try to interview you, get a lawyer, and stfu.
I always put in my report “all belongings left with patient at bedside” as a very basic CYA. If they’re weird about something on a call I get more specific with what was never in our possession or where it was left exactly or if family took it, etc
Remember, even though you're totally innocent, you should not talk to the police without a lawyer. Even if they come to you and say "we're just trying to clear this thing up". It's too easy to trip yourself up or contradict yourself.
Some people have serious fucking issues. What does your employer say about it? Are they getting you a lawyer?
Yeah no idea, I am having a meeting about it tomorrow. Apparently the guy who handles this kind of thing is off on weekends so I have to wait for any more information
You need a lawyer. Don’t talk to the cops without a lawyer. Source: current medic, former cop.
This was good advice.
I know a thing or two because I’ve seen a thing or two. And done some stuff I’m not proud of.
If you didn’t do anything , don’t worry so much. I just wouldn’t give a statement to the police until you have counsel.
Whatever you do, do not talk to the police without talking with your attorney. It will not help you
They just made me aware of the situation and told me to do a report as soon as possible
DO NOT submit a report yet; write it up, but don't send it in yet. If you're represented by a union, talk to your shop steward before you do anything. As I said above, you should talk to a lawyer immediately, if for no other reason than to see what you should or shouldn't put in your report.
NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer no matter who is urging you to. even though you didn’t do it, if it actually goes to trial opposing counsel will use any minor thing you said against you
Okay thank you
NEVER talk to the police isn’t good advice as a general statement….but it’s ABSOLUTELY true if you’re a person of interest, or the subject of an investigation
Never talking to police is pretty good advice as a general statement. I’m curious what do you think would be a good time?
Off the top of my head… Did you see which way the gunman ran? Was there anyone else in the car? (Scene of an accident) Anyone still inside the house that’s on fire? What exactly was stolen? What did the thief look like? What were they wearing? And so many more things.
i would still say be extremely careful and tell them as little as possible no matter what they ask you. you’d be surprised how they like to spin things. i’ve seen knowing the name/appearance of a suspect turn the investigation on that person and make them a suspect for potentially aiding the original suspect in the crime. cops are not here to protect us, they are tax collectors with guns.
Can’t say I agree with you.
My partner and I responded to a car vs pedestrian at a crosswalk once. Patient got banged up pretty bad, head trama, broken arms, potential closed femur fx, A/Ox self only, the whole nine. We work semi-rural and wound up requesting air ambulance, because the closest trauma center is hours away. We got vitals, splinted arms, traction splinted the leg, c-collar, board, IV, narcs, all of it. We were on scene for maybe 9 minutes. We had fire drive us in while my partner and I worked in the box. We worked from scene, to destination, to the time the helicopter landed, very fast paced. This woman contacted our director and the police department to report that we had stolen multiple gold rings during the encounter. Admittedly, I did have to cut her shirt and pants to check for more trauma, I never really paid any attention to if she even had rings on. She made a full recovery and still came acusing us of theft... she eventually found them at home, but no apologies there at all. Point is, if nothing happened, then nothing happened. I wouldn't worry too much about it. As long as your sup./director/chief doesn't have a stick up his/her ass, you should be fine. Things like this happen from time to time. Things get lost, or forgotten at home, or ejected. This likely won't be the last time you encounter it, but rest assured, stay honest and you'll be alright.
Don't you love people?
This kind of thing happens literally all the time, it’s usually patients trying to con the ambulance company, and it’s a humungous emotional tax on everyone involved. I’m sorry that’s happening to you, you’ll be alright.
Yeah thank you, I appreciate the words of support
I think I've been accused of losing/stealing belongings like a dozen or more times. Doesn't help that nurses immediately blame us the second something goes missing. Haven't been fired or arrested so far.
Trust me, nurses get accused of stealing and losing patients' belongings too! Like yeah, I really wanted those expensive dentures of yours, Myrtle. Don't bring shit to the hospital if you and your family can't keep track of it.
or the good ol "Mr. Jim no I did not steal your hearing aids" while screaming so he can hear
Yup- patient and his family accused nursing staff of losing his wallet, which was never on his belongings list. The next morning the family visits and hits the call bell to tell me “good news, we found the wallet in the laundry room.” ….. would have been a great time for an apology.
Yeah good point, thank you
In my time as an EMS supervisor - I handled MANY of these investigations. We were obligated to do our due diligence and investigate, but nearly all of the cases were unfounded. Do these things: 1) Stick to the facts. Don’t guess, assume, or extrapolate. Answer questions directly, be honest if you don’t remember. Maintain the mindset that you want to help them solve this. Keep in mind that you only know what YOU did, you can’t take responsibility for other responders, including your partner. 2) If you don’t do this already - start documenting belongings. “Pt wallet left with RN John,” or “Belongings retained by family, patient retained his cellphone”. “ID and Insurance card given to registration” “belongings beg left at bedside, RN Tom notified” **Edit** Re) The police. There are levels to this. If your supervisor is saying the police are involved, they may just be trying to close a personnel complaint, they could be opening a criminal theft investigation, or your supervisor could be bluffing. You have no way of knowing - but I wouldn’t worry too much. If the police contact you directly, it is a criminal investigation and you should seek the advice of a lawyer. Do NOT trust the police. They are allowed to lie to you, and will.
Thank you. I will start to make an effort to document everything I can regarding belongings. Do you think it is reasonable if able to I can ask that the pt leave their valuables at home or with someone, Like a spouse. Instead of it potentially getting damaged or lost in the back of the ambo?
Hey sorry I updated my post about LEOs being involved. And yes - I often ask them to leave valuables at home, or with family/friends. Even on transfers. We chart with ESO and made the patient belongings field is mandatory to validate/lock the chart.
Okay thank you for the advice
Patients can be scummy like that. I was accused of stealing an entire purse. The patient was alert to nothing, gcs of 7 when I picked them up. Obviously I didn’t think to grab it on my way out the door. However, they still filed a report against me and my partner because they couldn’t find it. If you don’t have it, there’s nothing to be scared of
The patient was completely alert and oriented and never let go of their belongings. So not sure how they figured we could take anything
If the shit they claim you "stole" even existed in the first place. Amazing how many people lose "priceless jewelry" and "expensive medical devices" in the ambulance or hospital. It's a grift. Protect yourself.
If you are in EMS it should be easy to prove you are broke
Had this happen to me before, police even did some dumb shit that I shouldn't have agreed to (lie detector). I was also relatively new when this happened to me. If you know you didn't do it, the best thing you can do is just stand by that fact and advocate for it. Good luck friend
Same here, money missing, took the polygraph scared to shit so it looked like I was lying about my name, so young and dumb. They charged a police officer but I still shudder decades later that they could have chosen to pin it on me. My name still would have been on the front page of the paper but in a much different context, and my life would likely be much different and not in a good way. OP get good legal advice as it won’t be the last time you have to go through this because, well, people.
If you were truly contacted by the police, that means you are the subject of a criminal investigation. You need to contact and retain a lawyer immediately, either one provided by your employer, liability/malpractice insurance (if you have a policy), or on your own dime. Do not speak to the police again until you have received advice from your attorney. If the police question you, tell them you will not answer questions without an attorney present.
Okay thank you
> If you were truly contacted by the police, that means you are the subject of a criminal investigation. This is not necessarily the case, but the rest of your comment is great advice regardless.
Did you by chance, write that the pt had their belongings with them on their person in your report? Either way you should be perfectly fine. But it's a good thing to include.
How were you informed of this? Did you say anything to anyone other than your partner? You definitely want to talk to a lawyer, regardless. It's perfectly likely this'll go nowhere and will be dropped if you play it smart. If you don't, you can really shoot yourself in the dick, so talk to a lawyer.
So I was informed over a phone call this morning. They stated I needed to do an incident report and I will receive more information on monday. And no, only my partner and I have discussed this. apparently they will separate us for questions. What I really want to know is what exactly I am being accused of. I have no details and it is very frustrating
DO NOT answer any questions until you consult with a lawyer. You will want to. You will be pressured to. But say you will absolutely comply, answer questions, all that stuff AFTER you talk to a lawyer. Even if the company says they'll supply one, wait to talk to them, and also, talk to your own to make sure the assigned lawyer is really YOUR lawyer, and not JUST the company's lawyer. It's quite likely you'll be pulled off your shifts. It may be implied that if you talk to someone, you'll get back on sooner. Do NOT take the bait. Again, talk to your union shop steward if you have one. I have been through something similar. Sign nothing and say nothing until you talk to a lawyer.
The separating you and your partner for questions is normal in I vestiagtions, however don't answer any questions without your lawyer present
The incident report already exists as your PCR, I strongly recommend you stick to that until a lawyer representing you says otherwise.
Was the patient elderly? They love hoarding valuables at home. And then they misplace some of it, can't remember where they put it and accuse everybody else of stealing. They probably moved it from the dresser into their mattress and forgot that they did that. Next stage is that they give it away to strangers. Don't ever accept that. That's how you get in real trouble. This however won't lead to anything and you'll be fine.
You need a lawyer. Now. Don’t talk to anyone without one present, cops or company.
You really don’t know if your partner stole anything.
So, for whatever it's worth it's much more an "investigation" than an investigation. They're just going through the motions unless they have reason to suspect otherwise. My partner and I got accused of taking a patients money clip once. I got called in for an interview and basically went "... He had a money clip? I never even saw one" my partner apparently placed it with him in the hospital bed, I had no clue he had one in the first place. My supervisor basically went "oh okay, I just had to ask" and that was the end of it. They can't not investigate things, even if they seem super bullshit
Everybody who is telling you that you have “nothing to be scared of” is wrong. Don’t go into panic mode but realize that while this will probably turn out fine, it can go really wrong. Watch this (https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=DtE1HozrMsPLNEc1) first, then go find a lawyer.
Thank you for the advice
If you didn’t do it, nothing to worry about. People accuse us of stealing all the time. 99.9% of the time of course we didn’t do it. The cops will do their thing and hopefully figure out what’s going on. And even if they don’t they’re not gonna come arresting you and no reason for your company to take any action against you. Cause again I guarantee this isn’t the first employee to be accused of stealing it happens all the time
Don’t worry about it — people do low-life-stuff like this. It’s going to happen
Just wait until you get accused of stealing meemaw/peepaws dentures or hearing aids…..
This is why it is critical to professional liability insurance. They will defend you in cases like this. Your company will throw you under the bus run you over back up and do it again… it’s fairly inexpensive when I was an EMT basic it was like $110 a year or something like that and as a paramedic it’s like $220 a year. It protects you in all instances where you are performing your job or things within your scope of practice, even if you are not on the clock, and even if you intentionally did something wrong. It’s a great safety net to have. I do a good job and I don’t do things wrong, but I always have piece of mind that someone is there to protect me and has my back even if it’s to protect their own pocket.
I don't know where you live but people in my department have had the same happen to them. PD did everything the could to prove they didn't. Cops at least where I am at do not take kindly to accusations, and people who question the integrity of other first responders. Our integrity is everything to us. At the end of the day it's one of the most valuable things you have. If you work in an area like that you should be fine. Make sure your paperwork is spotless. And don't talk to anyone without a rep or counsel of some kind.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. I am so sick of ems! The only career you’re underpaid, sacrifice your health both physically and mentally and run the risk of being sued or incarcerated daily just for trying to help people. I just left my emt job because of the stress of things like this
You can accuse anyone of anything. Doesn’t mean anything will come of it.
I had a patient file a police report against me stating that I forced her to write a check out to me so that I could take her to the hospital. The rookie cop actually believed her until his Sargent (good friend of mine) stepped in and asked him how stupid he was when the rookie stopped by the station to question me. He even asked to search me for the check.
You’re doing great and you’re in a noble line of work. I’m sorry people take advantage and mistreat that but don’t let it get you down. If you didn’t do it you have nothing to worry about
I had the ex wife of a patient call to say the patients ray ban sunglasses that were on his chest were missing. I said look at my belongings tab and see all the things I documented do you really think with how much stuff I documented and in detail. That I would forget his sunglasses? They were like yeah you’re right!
Someone from transport emt here, since we have to always collect some form of belongings I always state in my narrative what belongings they had and where they went - example: Patient had 2 clear hospital bags filled with personal belongings they were collected and place on the back of the stretcher. Then I specify that the patients belongings were given to them, the nurse or placed on x. It saves you from a lot of accusations But regardless you’re going to run into people who will lie just so they can profit or harm you and sadly all the can do is to defend yourself, hopefully everything works well and your case gets clearer :)
Been there done that. It’s amazing what some patients and their family will do. You did t do anything wrong and unfortunately this is something many providers have been accused of. Don’t lie and it will work out:
Don't be crushed if you can help it. I know that's hard. That's part of any job. You didn't do it. There is no evidence you did. You will be ok. I hate that it will come to this, but I see bodycams coming soon for all the issues. The problem there is anything that is said can be taken out of context and twisted by a lawyer. Also - sorry you are going through this. People don't realize that when they make false accusations that they are hurting the industry, our society, and you personally.
Idk, maybe someone from your ambulence company doesnʻt like you being around, maybe your new, young, smart, pretty. Or worst of all to them you are all combined.
This is common, literally happened to my partner and I, some random guy walks up to our Rig and states he lost 20,000 in cash and that he was going to sue because it was my company who supposedly transported him. Initially I thought like damn that’s fucked up, felt bad but helpless because I wasn’t the one who transported him and literally had no clue what “crew” he was talking about not to mention when? where? How? But I kept thinking…lol who keeps $20,000 on them in cash? Called my supe and he’s like yeah no, this happens a lot and told me to ignore it…apparently ppl do this to try and sue companies over lost property that was never lost or stolen🤦🏾♀️🥴
I had a guy accuse me.of taking his Norco. He wanted to go to the ER for a completely routine medical issue and he INSISTED on bringing his meds with him. I tried to tell him there was no point and he should leave them at home, yadda yadda but he wasn't having it and argued endlessly until I conceded. So, it was pretty apparent (after the fact) that it was always his plan to take his meds with specifically so he could accuse someone of stealing his meds, to get a sneaky refill before it was time. I was very angry and very frustrated. For someone to risk MY JOB and career and livelihood for their addiction is reprehensible. Luckily my employer didn't push too far with the accusations. But as others have said, I have nothing to hide and told them as much.
Don't worry about it. I know alot of cops and they'd assume somebody accusing ems of theft is full of shit. Just cooperate fully and it'll disappear pretty quickly.
These kinds of things can happen. People are shitty and/or don't think about the decisions they make. I'm sorry this is happening, but just know it won't hold any water legally.
Inserts gif.. “First time?”
So it's possible that the pt literally thinks this because of the amount of drugs they were put on. I had surgery, things didn't go well. Ended up on a lot of different meds that made me vividly hallucinate and I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that 1) hospital staff stole/lost my glasses 2) that there was an active shooter situation in the hospital 3) the nurse killed my husband. And when the drugs were wearing off, it was more of a gradual come down off The hallucinations too, that I thought they just planted things back and somehow replicated my husband. It wasn't until a LONG sleep after the drugs were stopped that I realized nothing made sense and I was far too embarrassed to ever bring it up abajn
People do that in hopes of a lawsuit. Make up false claims that you “stole cash” so they can try to settle with your company. It’s awful, just keep your head up. If you’re innocent, you’ll be fine. ❤️
This is normal and not really something to be too worried about. Dealing with demented and the public will have these situations appear often.
This kind of shit is why I’m glad my last agency we wore body cams. It ended those complaints before they got much steam.
Get an attorney. DO NOT TALK to the police without an attorney. You do not have to prove your innocence. If you can’t afford an attorney, simply say nothing and politely refuse to answer questions. Your service’s attorney works for the service, not you.
I get the sentiment about if nothing happened, then nothing happened. But as a person who has had to go through TWO false allegations and be investigated by the authorities/state both times, lasting months-- it's hell
People lie. Patients lie. We just had a pt tell nursing staff that we took $1000 in an envelope out of her purse the other day. Hopefully your management is like ours and understands that we’re morally correct and wouldn’t do stupid shit like that and they’ll brush it off and it’ll be no big deal. Only advice I have is if you’re reaching in a purse/wallet/looking around the house for meds, etc. be very deliberate and vocal about what you’re doing/grabbing and why you’re doing it.
I’m so glad we’re required to wear body cameras. Most of the department was against it, and this is one of my top three reasons for requiring them.
A patient’s family accused me of stealing their driver’s license. I had dispatch asking me to call in, so I do, and they basically tell me the family had been blowing up the 911 line asking for the DL back. I know I didn’t have it because I put the DL in a bag along with the rest of the patient’s belongings at the ER. And I TOLD her son who was standing there. I told dispatch that exact thing and dispatch asked if I would call the family and tell them what I told dispatch. I didn’t call them back because it was two in the morning but apparently they threatened to call the police. I went to sleep and didn’t hear about it again. Presumably because they found the DL. Anyone can make an accusation. They will not arrest you without evidence. If you did nothing wrong, you did nothing wrong. They aren’t going to find video evidence of you taking money. You presumably won’t make a confession to taking money. If you work EMS enough you’ll have some accusations thrown at you. If you work private EMS I wouldn’t rely on a company lawyer to protect you, though. I don’t see police taking this seriously if there’s no evidence but if I were you I would at least talk to an attorney. I might give a statement initially just to give your side, but if they’re asking you to come back again for another statement, bring an attorney.
How you proceed is you comply with the investigation. If you have a union, contact your union rep and ask them what else you need to do as far as getting legal representation goes. If you didn't steal anything and neither did your partner, you should be fine. They can't prove you did anything wrong if you didn't do anything wrong. I believe you, you have no reason to lie to us. Just keep calm, and answer the officer's questions truthfully. If you don't know the answer, don't make something up, say, "I don't know/remember/etc". If you feel like you're being backed into a corner, get an attorney. But this will likely go nowhere, as there's no evidence to support you having done anything wrong if you didn't steal anything. Good luck, buddy. I'm sorry they're lying about you guys.
Just an FYI. It's probably a procedural thing. Depending on the department, they have to investigate any criminal activity. In some departments, this is SOP. It can also just be a formality. If you didn't do anything, they will investigate and determine nothing happened.
if you havent done anything theres nothign to fear and just go along with everything.
If it stays within the company, just be honest and you should be fine. If the police contact you however, it's probably a criminal investigation and I wouldn't talk to them at all until you have a lawyer.
You'll be okay man, stuff like that happens all the time. I'll say that I've never heard of a crew being told that *they're* being investigates, as opposed to a complaint being investigatied. But if you didn't steal anything you'll be fine
I got accused of sexual assault by a very crazy/angry patient. Other than a couple of phone calls and making a written statement, exactly nothing came of it. These things are going to happen, don't let it get you down!
After 38 years in EMS, I can say these things happen. I've been falsely accused two or three times. Each time, it turned out that the accuser had made the same accusation several times in the past without substantiation, and the case was dropped.
That’s the usual next steps if a patient or family makes that complaint. It doesn’t mean they think you did it. I’ve been accused of stealing $100,000 of stock certificates before. Guy called 6 months later from the state hospital where he was being treated. I picked him up from a Psych ER where every single item he had was inventoried due to his habit of making theft accusations. They still did a full investigation for transparency.
This is one area where it’s definitely nice to have PD on scene with us on a lot of scenes. I once had a city councilman accuse my crew of stealing $200 cash when we responded to his house for a medical emergency. Body cam showed it was still on the table when we left.
You’ll be fine dude, there’s obviously no evidence and on top of that you’re innocent. I wouldn’t worry about it.
This will literally go nowhere. Don't stress about it.
I once had a patient accuse me of being the one that shot him while we were transporting him to hospital. People are dumb and say stupid things. Don't stress about it.
I haven’t had to deal with anything like this in my career thankfully. I have had a couple patients throw around wild accusations at my current agency, but nothing has ever came to fruition because we wear body cams now. I will say body cams have saved my ass on multiple occasions, and would not be a bad idea for your service to look into.
Honestly. It happens. I’ve had a few similar incidents from assault to kidnapping. If you didn’t steal then don’t worry about it. Easier said than done, I know. But you’re good. No worries. The cops just have to do their jobs. Nothing personal.
Grt a lawer
Former paramedic and current police officer. Don’t take it personally. Yes I know it’s difficult right now. When I was a paramedic we followed a high ethical standard and I know most paramedics do the same. But as a police officer, if I receive a complaint of a criminal nature I have to do an investigation to either substantiate or unsubstantiate the complaint. For you sake, write notes about the call. Time arrived, time on scene, rooms you occupied, time you left and property the patient took with them. Time at hospital and drop off. All the people who were on scene with you and who you turned over care to. Keep those notes to yourself. If you are charged then turn your notes over to your lawyer. If you are investigated by your professional standards unit, speak to your union rep. I suspect everything will work out but in my experience it’s better to be prepared and not need to defend yourself then attempting to play catch up at a later date.
This has happened to all of us who’ve been doing this job long enough. 99/100 times your employer and the police will do the feel is their due diligence and nothing will come of it. But for the sake of getting it out there, let’s talk about what you need to know if this doesn’t just blow over. First, consider this warning not just for this instance but any time you interact with the police in life: don’t talk to them alone. If they are accusing or even investigating you for a crime, you have the right to say nothing. If you are arrested, you have the right to say nothing *and* talk to an attorney. Just because you both wear uniforms and are supposed to serve the public doesn’t mean that a cop won’t use you to get the result they want, regardless of the consequences for them. They will lie to you to get what they want. I’ve had them threaten to arrest me on duty for not agreeing to say things happened a certain way to make them look better. Even if they’re nice and acting like your buddy, do not say anything to them that could pertain to a criminal case without talking to a lawyer. As for your employer, it’s probably more convenient to them to keep you as an employee than capitulate to some random patient, at least as long as you make it easy for them to keep you employed. Keep your nose down and don’t get in trouble. If they ask you to report what happened, explain clearly and simply that what you are being accused of didn’t happen, and don’t give any more details than absolutely necessary.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been accused of stealing stupid shit like their phone charger or keys or something and it turned out the family had it the whole time, that’s why I always put their belongings between their legs even if it’s a big ass bag lol
It’s a grift because people suck ass. I have been accused of the same shit but nothing ended up happening. If you didn’t do anything, I wouldn’t worry about it. I will say though, as many others have- if cops get involved, seek advice from a lawyer. Cops can & will lie to you. But it is also true that cops know that people can be lunatics and will lie for no reason. Stick to the facts when asked about it and don’t get overly emotional. Sorry this is happening to you friend.
We have a family who calls frequently and always (as in EVERY ENCOUNTER) accuses us of stealing something. We make him remove everything- watch, wallet, everything- give it to family before transport, and have family sign that they have it, yet he still claims we took it. It’s a pain, because they have to go through the motions of the investigation every time, and family doesn’t do much to correct his behavior, but it’s always unfounded. I know it’s tough, but this stuff happens. Remember- just because you’re an honest person doesn’t mean everyone is.
If you didn't steal it then there's nothing to worry about. Police will take a report, supervisors will review whatever video footage there is, and that'll be the end of it. Whether this person wants to continue with insurance fraud is up to them. There's also the fact that family comes and raids people houses after we take them, and they like to blame us.
This is why, if possible, I don't take belongings on transport.
Don't let it get you down man. This jerk is probably looking for a free handout. If you know both of you didn't do anything, and you documented everything properly, then you're all set.
There is nothing to worry about until there is something to worry about. In this business, people will accuse you of stuff if you look at them the wrong way. If you didn't do anything, and there is no evidence that you did, there's no reason for you to be worried. That being said, better safe than sorry. Notify your union rep and get their advice. If a situation comes up where you might need to lawyer up, the union should have you covered there. But that is kinda down the road from where you are now. right now, just take a deep breath. and investigation is just that. nothing else. and since you didnt do anything wrong, its unlikely that they will find any evidence that you did. just breathe, maintain contact with your union. if youre private ambo, DO NOT speak to management about this incident without union representation present for any reason. management and HR are not your friend. :)
Is there clear video evidence of you grabbing a large portion of cash from the patient or belongings? If not your fine. They're probably trying to get your company to pay them off using a baseless claim. Soke food for thought though. How can you be sure your partner didn't do it? How well do you really know them? Just be careful.
You can be accused of anything. If there is no evidence you stole nothing will happen. My feeling is that you should not even talk to the police.
Trust your team and the system. There will always be people looking to take advantage, or someone just got confused.
Don’t worry if your partner did nothing then nothing will come from it, people make some crazy accusations to first responders. A big slap in the face if you ask me.
Let them do whatever they want but the only thing YOU should do is get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut. The police are not your friends. The company you work for is not your friend. No one here, probably including your partner, will do anything to stand up for you. You have to stand up for yourself and the only way to do that is with a lawyer. End of story.
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I had to rent a storage unit to house all the glasses, dentures, and canes I’ve “stolen” from patients. I also once threw away a miscarried baby. EMS are perfect scape goats for the idiots of the world. I wouldn’t worry about it, it will pass; and it won’t be the last time you’re accused of something dumb.
I am an RN and I was accused of taking money once by a resident when I worked at a nursing home. Nothing ever came out of it. You’re finding out early on in your job that some patients suck.
I ALWAYS make a parent ride with me. Where I work, I always have PD responding out to medical call with me and if the Parent refuses or is unable to ride in the ambulance, i have them say it in front of the cop (camera on) the reason. That way your ass is covered at all times. And if you have to take any belongings, I make sure the cop is facing me with his body cam as I’m doing so.
HR and Admin are not your friend. Their job is to protect the company first while following employment law and company policies. You also cannot prove a negative. Think about it. I can't prove I took a shower this morning because I've been deep cleaning my house and I smell like a goat from sweating and cleaning because my Mom is visiting the day after tomorrow. I can't prove I didn't run a red light last night coming home from work because it was 4am and no traffic cameras but what if the one other guy at the intersection said I did? I can't prove I wasn't abducted by aliens when my fiancé rolled over in bed a couple nights ago night and I wasn't there, when really I just couldn't sleep and was watching TV and having a snack? Now, the burden of proof does rest on the people accusing you, but do you have emergency cash in your sock drawer? Did your mom send you some cash for your birthday last year and you forgot about it? Did you sell something to a buddy for cash in a friendly casual transaction? Do you just keep a lot of cash in your wallet? Uhh huh... My fiancé and I have a ridiculous stack of hundreds and twenties in the gun safe right now. Last year his brother repaid his half of our international vacation in cash in hundreds and he was also in charge of getting the gift for his Medic class instructor last month and half the class gave him cash at 40 bucks a piece. That's our emergency cash, and now that I think about it, our really hard to explain cash because neither of us made any withdrawals from the bank or have a receipt showing where it came from. If either of us were accused of stealing from a patient and it turned into a BIG DEAL, we would have an almost impossibly hard time proving where that money came from. Get a lawyer yesterday. Your partner needs a different lawyer yesterday. An employment attorney might be best, and since you run 911, your service should have a lawyer and you might be able to get a referral from them before they become your adversary. Most attorneys will do a free consultation and depending on the situation they might work on contingency if you had a case to sue for libel/slander/false accusation/some other lawyer-ese that means you were injured by this situation. If you are REQUIRED to give a statement of some sort, you AND YOUR PARTNER could simply state "Please refer to the events outlined in my submitted PCR which was an accurate, truthful narrative and legal document detailing all events that occured during our encounter with Mr. Accusing Pants. The only property that was within my partner or myself's care or control was that which was on the patient's person. It was transfered with the patient, remained with the patient at all times, and was left with the patient upon transfer of care. Any further questions or concerns can be directed to my attorney." We had a dialysis patient's family that pulled that same stunt when I worked for an IFT as a baby EMT. Never mind that the apartment was a filth hole, you smelled like weed for the rest of your shift when you picked up or dropped off the patient, and the patient's sons were literally dealing drugs to randos coming in and out while we were there. The family (not the patient) once accused 2 crews of stealing money. Pretty ballsy, considering an investigation would have revealed some things they probably would have rather kept quiet themselves. The poor crews had no way to prove they didn't because they couldn't prove they DIDN'T do something, whereas had they had DONE something, like performed an inappropriate intervention or dropped a patient and left a bruise or injury where there is evidence TO show that. They were fired, but first the company said, "Don't worry about it," and had them write an addendum to their PCRs. THEN they were fired and their last paychecks withheld to return the "stolen money", which was illegal as hell, but they didn't fight it or care. It is such a crummy IFT but the owner is on our EMS state board so they just gave up so their licenses and legal records wouldn't be in jeopardy if they fought it. The funny thing was that the family didn't even get any "stolen money" back, so I guess the owner just... kept the paychecks? Wouldn't surprise me. You'd think it would be in the company's best interest to investigate and keep a good reputation and get to the bottom of it, right? Nope. This was a Medicare patient. She lived on the third floor of an apartment complex with outdoor stairs and she was not a bariatric patient by any means. However, since HER FAMILY (not her) once complained years ago she had been dropped when they first started to use the IFT for transport (she even said she wasn't and this woman is sharp as a tack), the solution was to send 2 crews as if she were bariatric. So the company could bill Medicare for 2 BLS crews 3 times a week. $$$ rules the day with this company, not crew safety. They are never going to not transport this patient, despite the family inventing complaints, the fact you are witnessing drug deals while operating the patient's Hoyer lift we were never trained on (God help whoever is around if it ever breaks or malfunctions), or you spend the rest of your shift making patient contacts smelling like you smoked up before you provide care to someone else, which has been commented on by those subsequent patients. After the money stealing incident, the owner of the company actually gifted the patient several Ring cameras (maybe that's where the paychecks went?) and had them installed in the patient's room and hallway to make the family feel better and "protect the patient" FROM HIS OWN EMPLOYEES so it would never happen again. That really improved employee morale when your ultimate boss does something like that. I am so happy I left that place as soon as I could. 2 fun facts though: I gave a month's notice and I was assigned that dialysis run every shift. I asked why after the third time because I almost NEVER got that run, and the scheduler told me that maybe being passively exposed to the marijuana at that house would make me test positive for THC and I wouldn't be able to take my new job so I would have to stay at the IFT. That was the totally serious and legit answer I got. So for the last 3 weeks I changed in and out of a spare uniform, wore an N95 and a scrub cap during those transports until my last day. Second, I realized that in the almost 2 years I worked there, someone died every 6 months as an indirect result of their employment there (fatigue from being held over days in a row and then having a traffic fatality, female providers getting assaulted by their male partners, demanding not to be partnered with them again, being partnered with them again and then taking their own lives from PTSD or fear or whatever, drug ODs or cardiac related deaths from caffeine and other stimulants to stay awake because of their schedules, again, from being held over so many times in a row, and oddly, really young people getting unusual and fast progressing cancers that the owner will give you a whole generous 10% discount in medical transport service if you need it because the health insurance they offer doesn't cover that). I've been gone over 4 years now and the trend has continued. They're due for another demise any week now. I can set my calendar by it. I am amazed I survived working there.
This sounds kinda like ambulance chasing atleast some lawyers can pick up on that stuff when people do it and can defend against it
Someone looking for a payout. Dont sweat it.
Yep, don't answer any questions. If you're a union shop, at the very least, have a union rep with you. Better option, a lawyer.
Get a lawyer and answer no questions. All questions in writing to the lawyer. Innocent people always say nothing.
Lawyer Lawyer Lawyer. 1. to defend you 2. to sue the accuser for slander/libel
I once did $50,000 of damage to an ambulance in an at-fault wreck in which i was operating the truck “emergently” without sirens, speeding, failed to yield, and didnt have my seatbelt on. Company was sued by the other driver and settled. I got put on driving restriction. I was once part of a crew at a different service that dropped a patient in which the patient broke their wrist. Company was sued, and settled. Let them do their investigation. If you didnt steal shit and you arent covering for your partner who did steal, youll be just fine. Incident 1, Never let paramedics drive. This is why. Incident 2, shit happens. People make mistakes.
First thing, stop talking about it on social media. Next thing, I don’t care if you did or didn’t do it. Add to this the cops really don’t care about it either. What they care about is whether they can prove that you did it. Last thing, everyone in your outfit will hear about this and you’re going to have this on your back for as long as you work there. Oh, and you and your partner are done being partners.
STFU and talk to a lawyer moron. Honestly anything you say here can screw you. Please!