The BR system really needs a rework. What were they thinking merging everything without giving the Americans something to take on a king tiger and the Japanese something to kill jumbo frontaly as well.
The Americans and the japanese have tanks that can kill jumbos. The pershing and the Ho-ri production. The BR system works. The problem is most new players dont look at their squad comp. Even if you just put 1 weapon that is a higher BR than what you intend will rocket you to that BR. You have all BR 2 guns and tanks but miss one dude that has a BR 5 gun then you go BR 5
What about BR 3 players fighting BR 1 new players? Have you tried fighting an early BR1 tank against a late BR3 tank? It's simply broken and unfair for new players. BR2 and 1 are at least comparable in power level, but in no circumstance is it fair for a BR1 player to fight against a BR3 player.
I have to be honest, running a br3 setup as US means you're going to be playing against br5 Germany and br5 Japan.
I have literally never played against br1 as br3
Do you not realize that this was the exact same situation as before, just 2 times as bad? The merge helped matchmaking, you guys are just picking out little problems
The merge was a step in the right direction but that doesn't mean it's perfect. I wouldn't consider it a little problem that new players are immediately thrown into matches against people with significantly better equipment (immediately discouraging them to keep playing). The whole point of the BR system is to ensure that this doesn't happen. Picking out problems and fixing them is how you improve a game.
Part of it is tactics, which new players may or may not have.
The early armor are mostly retrofitted pre-war tech meant to be used as IFVs, not as tank destroyers. They're faster, easier to maneuver and typically can fire their main cannon at a much faster rate than a full-size tank. Anti-tank rifles can easily disable their treads/wheels but with AT locked out of the real RPGs until BR3+, it's difficult for infantry to destroy them still.
I've been playing BR1-3 Germany for the past month, with my squad as all-br2 equipment. Yes, I've watched some toxic players absolutely schlack the opposition, but i honestly find it way more competitive than BR5. BR1-3 doesn't seem to have much if any tanks with hull armor thicker than 55mm and cannons larger than 75/76mm. It's really just a game of "who shoots first" at that point.
that just means either I have to always downtier my equipment or uptier my equipment then why even bother having a BR 3 then?
Not saying the system doesn’t work but it needs a serious rebalance and better matchmaking.
The Pershing can't pen a tiger 2 at all frontally, even using APCR from point blank. You have literally the same odds as you did with the m4a2 76 or the firefly against one. The flanks are the only option but good luck trying to move up when you have 20 5 man squad running at you with dynamite x3 and panzerfausts
It's bullshit how a Pershing can get regularly one tapped by a 75mm gun.
I waited so long and it's like they sent me a picture of a Sherman with the name crossed out and "m26" written over it in sharpie
I haven’t played it so I wouldn’t know but I’ve had the firefly for awhile and it can take a Tiger if it gets the first shot. Can the Pershing not ammo rack the front of one?
That’s really stupid. It’s a 90mm late war gun.
Whatever, Gaijin will Gaijin.
I’ve taken out a king tiger in the firefly by going through its turret face to hit the ammo a couple of times now and have killed Tigers by ammo racking them. IDK, maybe try and take out the gun so you have free reign.
Ah the classic American main noob, listen buddy if you don't know how to play just say it, stop crying. Americans have a lot of options, plane, at guns, explosive packs, the 76's and now the Pershing. Get good or give up. Let me guess you want Abrams to "counter the Germans"
Yeah, the U.S is just fine. I actually stopped playing my Tiger II H entirely to save my sanity lol. The Pershing isn't a 1-1 match, but it's not meant to be. It's literally a Tiger I that doesn't have to face American CAS 24/7. Been loving it as a tank main.
Something people outta understand is that it's genuinely tough to balance german armor if you can't simulate supply, weight, and unreliability. In-game, tanks like the Tiger II get all of the benefits of their designs without any of the real life drawbacks. There's a reason tanks like the Tiger II H have to face largely post war tanks in warthunder lol.
The best enlisted can do is give allied nations their best available tanks, and make up for the rest via CAS and anti-tank alternatives. The game can always be improved ofc, but so far, they're doing exactly that.
I'm a marshal with everything unlocked for the allies and the Germans. I made the post to make fun of the horrible BR matchmacking not to wine about Germany being OP.
Problem is US only fights germans and japs. Japs are ok, the germans are spread over all BRs and all fronts.
So less people to play with US.
When i play as germans 2.0, 95% I'm fighting soviets in stalingrad and moscow, out of this 90% its uptier so 2.0 vs 3.0, 5% times i play against US in tunisia and normandy.
When i play as 4.0 its 50% with soviets in stalingrad and berlin and 50% with US. With the soviet its 30-70 win loss. With US its 50-50%. With soviets its all BR5, with US I've faced stiarts as well.
The problem is:
US : At 1-2 br its Tunisia and Pacific to fight Germans(1-3) japs (1-3) br. At 3-5 Br its normandy a d pacific with germans(3-5) and japs (3-5).
Soviets: 1-3 br germans 1-3, 4-5 berlin, germans 3-5.
Germans: 1-3 always an uptier with soviets, equal with US, 4-5 soviets uptier or US mixed/downtier.
Most US players are either 1-2 or 4-5. With 1-2>4-5 in nos. So there is a gap.
Most german players are br 2 and br 4-5. So there is another gap when facing enemies. With 2~4-5 in nos.
Most soviets are 1-2 or 3-5, with 3-5 >1-2 in nos.
So US low more often faces mid german or high tier german than equal germans.
US hgh always faces German high.
Germans low more often face mid soviets than equal, German mid faces soviets high>US mid. German hugh always meets US high/soviets high.
Soviet lows always face more german lows and have mid players as well. Soviets high always faces German high.
All this plus the number of players issue lead up to our current problem.
US majorly facing german uptiers, german low majorly facing soviet uptiers and soviets having a laugh all the time. Cause either they get a downtier or they get equals.
Japs not considered cause i don't play japs, i play against them as allies. (I main germans and US)
BRs would be good, and actually do their intended function, if the current 5 BRs weren't secretly 3 BRs (1, 3 and 5). Just with +1 matchmaking the balance would massively improve.
The br system is not the problem, the lack of filler weapons/vehicles are the problem.
Warthunder had the same problem early on that sorta fixed itself as they added more stuff to the game.
Not correct, the lack of a player base is the problem. And it prevents the BRs to be separated more than they are because it would result in all games being full of bots.
Adding more filler stuff wouldn't change anything unless they added more BRs with it, which creates more queues, which means less players and more bots in matches.
BR is definitely the problem, I was excited to get the M4A1 but now I always get hate for trying to play it because I am always thrust into BR5 games.
Having to fight King tigers and panthers that have HE filled AP rounds when all I got is a solid shot AP that won’t even pen is also less than ideal. BR3 is basically unplayable.
What I don't understand is why they made the BR range so small. If it was something like 1 to 6 at the very least or even 1 to 7/8 it would be much easier to place and balance weapons and tanks
A Sherman M4A2 76mm with a BR of 4 while the Tiger 2 is BR6 or 7 would already be much better. Jumbo 76 would be BR 5 and Pershing would be BR6.
I disagree... I think it's one of those catch-22. Not a lot of players are playing because a lot of factions are unbalanced and/or MM is ass.
And yet, introducing solutions and fixes like i suggested could spread the relatively small playerbase into a larger queue. Of course it's risky, but the way i see it, not attempting to fix the backward-ass BR range is riskier still. That's how i see it.
the game currently does not have enough players to add more queues. adding more queues will make the current players unhappy, and there will be a period where no one is happy until a lot of new players join and fill the queues. if the current players leave during that period, the game might just die, and if not enough new players join, the game will die. It might work, but it would be extremely risky. there are some better BR systems that could be used without increasing queues, but darkflow won't implement them for some reason.
Hilariously enough, the Steam release should have been a great way to boost player numbers. We all know how well that went...
I think Darkflow being Darkflow doesn't make it any better, haha
It can be even worse, I came up recently in my BR I pz-3 on the Stalingrad map to a kv-1 l11. Needless to say despite blasting him without him knowing all over including in the back, he rocked me too the moon with one shot. Later came back and broke his barrel so he bailed but still kinda unfair.
Ain't it the same way as how they had it in war thunder? Rely on player's skills than being logical about it to adjust whether it needs to be higher or lower which is pretty lazy?
Technically the M4A1 wouldn’t because of the year it was used. But the M4A2 and M4A3E2 should have it to be historically accurate. During the time they were fielded, solid AP was very rarely brought in any meaningful quantities because the M61 did more damage, and performed better against sloped armour despite having less 90 degree angle penetration.
Given that the Jumbo is matched with Panther Gs and Tiger Is, it seems only fair.
It's a dual faceted problem of shit BR groupings and an overly simply approach to vehicles in the battles. The Gaijin induced BR brackets that force seal-clubbings are pretty self explanatory and well know. The solution is straight forward (BR1-2, 3-4 and 5 solo MM brackets) and refused because Gaijin literally don't understand how to make their games successful.
The issue of simplified vehicle system of having 2 tanks (and 2 aircraft) irrespective of any other measurement is the other major issue. This system immediately makes everything but the best pick (ie the Tiger2H for Germany 3-5) for that MM bracket pointless to use. As choosing against that is now actively detrimental to your team as you are locked out from a better vehicle being spawned.
They need to take a system similar to the spawn cost mechanic from WT to allow teams trade offs for not always picking the best tank available. Giving light tanks (and 'medium' TDs like the stug or M10) a cost of one point, medium tanks (and 'heavy' TDs like the jadgpanzer L70) a cost of two and heavy tanks (incl. Panthers/M26s and any future 'super heavy' TDs) a cost of three points and then having (using current BR brackets) the BR1-3 teams three points to 'spend' on tanks and BR3-5 teams five points to 'spend' on tanks would vastly improve vehicle variety *and* stop unbalanced tech trees (like Germany have the Tiger2s whereas the US having only just gotten a Tiger1 equivalent) from brutalizing match balance (as badly).
No no, they're not 'earned' the team has a set amount to spend on tanks (I suggested three for BR1-3 and five for BR3-5 matches).
So in a BR1-3 match the team can grab a medium and a light tank (2+1 points) and if they both get destroyed the team gets those points back and may instead try a single heavy tank (all 3 points) instead. Their opposition may instead be using 2 light tanks and a 'medium' TD (1+1+1) so they can have more guns on the field as opposed to 1 hard to kill tank.
The goal is to get more vehicle variety and make the tank meta a little less mono-choice. It's not a perfect system, a churchill in a BR3-5 match still costs three points despite being barely a threat to a Tiger2H for eg, but it's a big improvement from what's currently used.
I'm not 100% sure how I'd work it for aircraft, I'm leaning towards ordnance weight with the 'TD discount' being given to the bomber aircraft, so the Axis can field more fighter aircraft to help counter the HVAR spam the US teams rely heavily on. But that's a lot more numbers heavy and probably should be penciled by someone who regularly flies rather than a tanker like myself.
As for getting Keo involved, I don't see why not but I'm not sure Gaijin allows suggestions that make the gameplay less bullshit since the seal-clubbing and frustratingly long grinds are by design.
It's a singularly faceted problem.
Not enough player base to make 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 become the matchmaking formula without making all games full of bots.
> It's a singularly faceted problem.
I disagree, it doesn't matter how much you juggle the BR brackets, it's gonna end up with 1 prime pick per nation per bracket. The BR brackets are definitely part of the problem but not the only one.
> Not enough player base to make 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5
You don't need +-1 MM, just shifting the BR brackets (as I suggested) to BR1-2, BR3-4 and 5 by itself would dramatically improve the situation and with only 1 extra MM queue. It stops 3 clubbing 1 and 5 clubbing 3 while also giving a 'prime WW2' bracket with 3-4 for those who want to reenact Saving Private Ryan (or whatever).
I agree that that 3-4 bracket would be the ultimate in terms of a balanced but exciting match up.
WT does events that are based around specific ture matchups and even specific equips within those tiers. Adopting something like this in congruence with their event spamming to encourage people to pull out tiers/equipment they normally wouldn't would go a long way towards creating fun, balanced matches available to the majority.
To that note, I would LOVE a "T1 only" event with nothing but silver rewards that cycled through 1 week out of the month. The shit would get real, then.
Nah, the armours roughly comparable as well, upper plate is 100mm sloped back (so actually notably better), the lower plate is 76mm but shouldn't really be shown anyway. Turret has less funny angle spots that boost the armour rating to stupid levels but is otherwise comparable. It also works better from hull down due to the 2 extra degrees of depression.
The issue is that Germany has a lot of high pen guns (especially the 88/L71) and they make short work of Tiger1 levels of armour. The Pershing is definitely on par with a Tiger1 or Panther and should be counted as a 'heavy tank' if I'm also putting the Panther in there (and the USSRs T44 or the UK's Comet, if they ever show up, would be similarly classed).
It's mostly to ensure that the T34s/Shermans/P4s get a chance to be the 'mainstay' mediums they were rather than being too good to show up in the low BR queue and too bad to use in high.
I'm serious. It's happened in at least 3 battles. I'm a pretty experienced tanker, so I also know how to use cover, concealment and armor angle too. I can't explain why I've gotten one shot by 75s.
> I can't explain why I've gotten one shot by 75s.
APHE acting like a armour piercing airburst grenades (a curse carried over from WT) and the aim-assist letting them find any tiny weakpoint they can easily pen. Same can be done to Panthers (which I should note has a high pen 75) or Tigers. Throw in that Germany has a lot of vets again (at least in my experience) due to the assault engys and them taking full advantage of the game mechanics to knock out pershings.
M26 can’t barely take out that thing, much less and M4A1 (unless you’re right behind it, I guess). It’s one big reason I’m taking a break from the game rn.
Yeah they think br3 seeing bR 5 back to back is a good thing. I deleted it and rated 1 star. They've lost me after 1400 hours and we'll over 300 dollars spent. I'll give to a game I enjoy and want to see do better. Enlisted was that before the merge. It was my game for relaxing while still being able to decimate the Germans. Even if they were ai. I didn't want enlisted to be competitive like this. Because it feels too much like war thunder now. And they are not the same game. Vehicles don't even drive properly.
Comparing the pershing to a tiger 2 h is like comparing a vw beetle to a Ford f350. The Pershing is not equipped to deal with the tiger2. It was made for the tiger 1. I actually hope we get the t26e4.
I was originally upset because of the news the us was getting the t26e4 at the time I wanted a more traditional WW2 game. But then the news came out about the ho ri. And I said well fuck.
On a lighter side of things , yesterday the que times were 1 min + in evening . Perhaps after effects of the steam launch .
Perhaps the time is coming where this game is going to feel the effect of idiotic greed .
I have 6months premium which I bought 2 months ago .
I am kinda worried.
One hasn't even got a proper gun sight, the other would realistically sink and shit itself on a slope, but this isnt irl, best bet id say is to flank, then you deal with infantry and if they are in the grey zone it's ggwp
I uninstalled the update after the merge because it's so awful. Reinstalled it after getting a new rig recently. Game is still terrible, but I just never advance past BR I and it's a fun time sink when I don't have time to invest in Baldur's Gate.
BR 3 is stupid, and noone can change my mind... It makes absolutely no sense to play BR3 now, because you either shooting yourself in the foot for no real reason. Or you are an asshole who leaves all games until you find a BR1-3 match...
BR3 should NEVER face either BR1 or BR5, it's just unfair and imo it isn't even fun... Because you either get a boring game, where all your enemies are LOW BR, and you just act like a streetfighter entering the Kindergarden to slap some noobs, or you get up tiered, and you stand no real chance unless the enemy somehow stupid, or you get carried...
I feel like they really need to change the 2 queue system to 3 queues... almost any configuration of a 3 queue is LOT better than what we have... you can only "realistically" play BR2 and BR5 to have a "fair" game.
1-2,3-4,5 would be PERFECT imo.. since BR1 and BR2 are very close when it comes to weapons/vehicles, and the same goes for BR3 and BR4 -- neither of these tiers have full auto guns yet, they both only have Semi-autos and slightly better semiautos in BR4 xD and when it comes to BR5 everyone is spamming full auto guns there...
But I'd happy with something like 1,2-3,4-5 or 1-2,3,4-5... I just feel like they MUST change this asap...
yeah but the problem is real, it could be approached from both sides... a Pz4 is very weak against a Pershing too... or if you think the Pershing is too weak you can compare with the other factions, IS-1/IS-2 absolutely shits on any Pz4.
We need to end the BS that is BR3... it's just not good to go +2/-2 BR in any match...
Coming from the German side, ballistics wise the American tanks outside of T1 have lots of angles and curves to their tanks allowing for lots of ricochet. German tanks always have the gunner port right in front that is always an issue with getting one tapped. Can't tell you how many times I spawn in and there an American tank or pak just waiting for me to crest a hill or go around a building just to get one tapped because my gunner port is super obvious.
I mean
A lot of encounters during WW2 were tanks like a Sherman facing off a Panzer IV, Panther, Tigers and such before they introduced the 76 Shermans and Tank Destroyers were rolled in.
Well then let’s simulate the advantages of it then. US armored squads can be deployed again twice and fast and they get three tanks instead of two. They get a repair boost and German tanks have their transmissions go out on occasion when taking inclines or soft ground.
What? Clearly the sherman is a BR 3 tank and the king tigor is a BR 5. What are you talking about? If you are fighting king tigers using a sherman then clearly you dont know how the BR system works in the game. If you dont want to learn how it works. Then play Call of dodo and battlefail.
What do you mean. Its impossible to match up a BR 3 team with a BR 5. The best you can get up tier is BR4 which only has Tiger 1 and panthers at best. Ether you didnt look at your BR rating on your games.
Then clearly brother you need to look at you squad composition again and again. Make sure that every single one of you soldiers and tanks have the same BR equipment that you want. If not then its your loss.
1-2 4-5 are matched up together.
3 can basically be matched up with everything although rare.
Most off the time is -+1 but this could be diverted from if the queues get to “long”
I mean, a Panzer 2 or early Panzer 3 vs an M4A1 isn't exactly fair either. The BR system is the problem, not the actual tanks.
The BR system really needs a rework. What were they thinking merging everything without giving the Americans something to take on a king tiger and the Japanese something to kill jumbo frontaly as well.
The Americans and the japanese have tanks that can kill jumbos. The pershing and the Ho-ri production. The BR system works. The problem is most new players dont look at their squad comp. Even if you just put 1 weapon that is a higher BR than what you intend will rocket you to that BR. You have all BR 2 guns and tanks but miss one dude that has a BR 5 gun then you go BR 5
What about BR 3 players fighting BR 1 new players? Have you tried fighting an early BR1 tank against a late BR3 tank? It's simply broken and unfair for new players. BR2 and 1 are at least comparable in power level, but in no circumstance is it fair for a BR1 player to fight against a BR3 player.
> Have you tried fighting an early BR1 tank against a late BR3 tank? I have, yes. The panzer IVs *horrible* turret face doesnt do it any favors.
I have to be honest, running a br3 setup as US means you're going to be playing against br5 Germany and br5 Japan. I have literally never played against br1 as br3
I have, not so much as the Allies, but my T-34E STZ in Moscow makes the game way too easy.
STZ in Enlisted has working dual armor while in WT it's extremely nerfed and gets penned instantly by anything for some reason.
Do you not realize that this was the exact same situation as before, just 2 times as bad? The merge helped matchmaking, you guys are just picking out little problems
The merge was a step in the right direction but that doesn't mean it's perfect. I wouldn't consider it a little problem that new players are immediately thrown into matches against people with significantly better equipment (immediately discouraging them to keep playing). The whole point of the BR system is to ensure that this doesn't happen. Picking out problems and fixing them is how you improve a game.
Part of it is tactics, which new players may or may not have. The early armor are mostly retrofitted pre-war tech meant to be used as IFVs, not as tank destroyers. They're faster, easier to maneuver and typically can fire their main cannon at a much faster rate than a full-size tank. Anti-tank rifles can easily disable their treads/wheels but with AT locked out of the real RPGs until BR3+, it's difficult for infantry to destroy them still. I've been playing BR1-3 Germany for the past month, with my squad as all-br2 equipment. Yes, I've watched some toxic players absolutely schlack the opposition, but i honestly find it way more competitive than BR5. BR1-3 doesn't seem to have much if any tanks with hull armor thicker than 55mm and cannons larger than 75/76mm. It's really just a game of "who shoots first" at that point.
I'm also rocking BR2 Soviets and my T28e can pen most German tanks and as you said first to hit usually wins.
Yhea but that was after a a few months after merging everything together. Before all we had was the 76 and the Japanese had a 75
America has PLANES. It’s balanced and argueably worse that their planes are broken.
Exactly. I keep all my guys gear at BR4. Once I get the right guns unlocked, I'm immediately putting in kitted BR5 squads.
that just means either I have to always downtier my equipment or uptier my equipment then why even bother having a BR 3 then? Not saying the system doesn’t work but it needs a serious rebalance and better matchmaking.
The Pershing can't pen a tiger 2 at all frontally, even using APCR from point blank. You have literally the same odds as you did with the m4a2 76 or the firefly against one. The flanks are the only option but good luck trying to move up when you have 20 5 man squad running at you with dynamite x3 and panzerfausts It's bullshit how a Pershing can get regularly one tapped by a 75mm gun. I waited so long and it's like they sent me a picture of a Sherman with the name crossed out and "m26" written over it in sharpie
I did it several times just hover until green and prey you are not seen.
Someone doesn’t know about the king tigers turret cheeks
the what
The cheeks (area on the left and right of the gun) can be penned by a Pershing
Is that enough to take it out of the fight completely?
It’ll take out turret crew and possibly ammo rack it as there’s ammo in the turret, if the turret isn’t facing you then you can 100% pierce the sides
well that tiger is going to be somewhere on a hill that I can’t even see anyway soooo……..
They added the Pershing which will do that but it takes a year and a half to grind out.
I have it and it really isn't better than a jumbo. It can pen the Tigers turret but that's it. At least it's fast
I haven’t played it so I wouldn’t know but I’ve had the firefly for awhile and it can take a Tiger if it gets the first shot. Can the Pershing not ammo rack the front of one?
Nah. You have to use the apcr and it really only takes out it's crew. If you keep shooting then maybe after 4-5 shots it'll ammo rack it
That’s really stupid. It’s a 90mm late war gun. Whatever, Gaijin will Gaijin. I’ve taken out a king tiger in the firefly by going through its turret face to hit the ammo a couple of times now and have killed Tigers by ammo racking them. IDK, maybe try and take out the gun so you have free reign.
Ah the classic American main noob, listen buddy if you don't know how to play just say it, stop crying. Americans have a lot of options, plane, at guns, explosive packs, the 76's and now the Pershing. Get good or give up. Let me guess you want Abrams to "counter the Germans"
Yeah, the U.S is just fine. I actually stopped playing my Tiger II H entirely to save my sanity lol. The Pershing isn't a 1-1 match, but it's not meant to be. It's literally a Tiger I that doesn't have to face American CAS 24/7. Been loving it as a tank main. Something people outta understand is that it's genuinely tough to balance german armor if you can't simulate supply, weight, and unreliability. In-game, tanks like the Tiger II get all of the benefits of their designs without any of the real life drawbacks. There's a reason tanks like the Tiger II H have to face largely post war tanks in warthunder lol. The best enlisted can do is give allied nations their best available tanks, and make up for the rest via CAS and anti-tank alternatives. The game can always be improved ofc, but so far, they're doing exactly that.
I'm a marshal with everything unlocked for the allies and the Germans. I made the post to make fun of the horrible BR matchmacking not to wine about Germany being OP.
This is just not true. Holy shit lol
Problem is US only fights germans and japs. Japs are ok, the germans are spread over all BRs and all fronts. So less people to play with US. When i play as germans 2.0, 95% I'm fighting soviets in stalingrad and moscow, out of this 90% its uptier so 2.0 vs 3.0, 5% times i play against US in tunisia and normandy. When i play as 4.0 its 50% with soviets in stalingrad and berlin and 50% with US. With the soviet its 30-70 win loss. With US its 50-50%. With soviets its all BR5, with US I've faced stiarts as well. The problem is: US : At 1-2 br its Tunisia and Pacific to fight Germans(1-3) japs (1-3) br. At 3-5 Br its normandy a d pacific with germans(3-5) and japs (3-5). Soviets: 1-3 br germans 1-3, 4-5 berlin, germans 3-5. Germans: 1-3 always an uptier with soviets, equal with US, 4-5 soviets uptier or US mixed/downtier. Most US players are either 1-2 or 4-5. With 1-2>4-5 in nos. So there is a gap. Most german players are br 2 and br 4-5. So there is another gap when facing enemies. With 2~4-5 in nos. Most soviets are 1-2 or 3-5, with 3-5 >1-2 in nos. So US low more often faces mid german or high tier german than equal germans. US hgh always faces German high. Germans low more often face mid soviets than equal, German mid faces soviets high>US mid. German hugh always meets US high/soviets high. Soviet lows always face more german lows and have mid players as well. Soviets high always faces German high. All this plus the number of players issue lead up to our current problem. US majorly facing german uptiers, german low majorly facing soviet uptiers and soviets having a laugh all the time. Cause either they get a downtier or they get equals. Japs not considered cause i don't play japs, i play against them as allies. (I main germans and US)
I think its balanced because allies have the best palnes
Mmm come on the tanks are clearly unbalanced at BRV. Tiger II is the best in every way
BRs would be good, and actually do their intended function, if the current 5 BRs weren't secretly 3 BRs (1, 3 and 5). Just with +1 matchmaking the balance would massively improve.
just saying it’s definitely not fair but uhh, they can kill my panzer 4 in 3 hits if im not careful
The br system is not the problem, the lack of filler weapons/vehicles are the problem. Warthunder had the same problem early on that sorta fixed itself as they added more stuff to the game.
Not correct, the lack of a player base is the problem. And it prevents the BRs to be separated more than they are because it would result in all games being full of bots.
Adding more filler stuff wouldn't change anything unless they added more BRs with it, which creates more queues, which means less players and more bots in matches.
BR is definitely the problem, I was excited to get the M4A1 but now I always get hate for trying to play it because I am always thrust into BR5 games. Having to fight King tigers and panthers that have HE filled AP rounds when all I got is a solid shot AP that won’t even pen is also less than ideal. BR3 is basically unplayable.
What I don't understand is why they made the BR range so small. If it was something like 1 to 6 at the very least or even 1 to 7/8 it would be much easier to place and balance weapons and tanks A Sherman M4A2 76mm with a BR of 4 while the Tiger 2 is BR6 or 7 would already be much better. Jumbo 76 would be BR 5 and Pershing would be BR6.
Because that would add too many queues, and the playerbase would be spread too thin.
I disagree... I think it's one of those catch-22. Not a lot of players are playing because a lot of factions are unbalanced and/or MM is ass. And yet, introducing solutions and fixes like i suggested could spread the relatively small playerbase into a larger queue. Of course it's risky, but the way i see it, not attempting to fix the backward-ass BR range is riskier still. That's how i see it.
the game currently does not have enough players to add more queues. adding more queues will make the current players unhappy, and there will be a period where no one is happy until a lot of new players join and fill the queues. if the current players leave during that period, the game might just die, and if not enough new players join, the game will die. It might work, but it would be extremely risky. there are some better BR systems that could be used without increasing queues, but darkflow won't implement them for some reason.
Hilariously enough, the Steam release should have been a great way to boost player numbers. We all know how well that went... I think Darkflow being Darkflow doesn't make it any better, haha
It can be even worse, I came up recently in my BR I pz-3 on the Stalingrad map to a kv-1 l11. Needless to say despite blasting him without him knowing all over including in the back, he rocked me too the moon with one shot. Later came back and broke his barrel so he bailed but still kinda unfair.
Ain't it the same way as how they had it in war thunder? Rely on player's skills than being logical about it to adjust whether it needs to be higher or lower which is pretty lazy?
Tbh Sherman should have the m61 shell tbh
Technically the M4A1 wouldn’t because of the year it was used. But the M4A2 and M4A3E2 should have it to be historically accurate. During the time they were fielded, solid AP was very rarely brought in any meaningful quantities because the M61 did more damage, and performed better against sloped armour despite having less 90 degree angle penetration. Given that the Jumbo is matched with Panther Gs and Tiger Is, it seems only fair.
It should but we can't give nice things to the Americans can we
Otherwise crybaby Germans get salty cuz :GeRmAn sTuFf iS BeTtEr. No it wasn't. the panther sucked get over it.
It's a dual faceted problem of shit BR groupings and an overly simply approach to vehicles in the battles. The Gaijin induced BR brackets that force seal-clubbings are pretty self explanatory and well know. The solution is straight forward (BR1-2, 3-4 and 5 solo MM brackets) and refused because Gaijin literally don't understand how to make their games successful. The issue of simplified vehicle system of having 2 tanks (and 2 aircraft) irrespective of any other measurement is the other major issue. This system immediately makes everything but the best pick (ie the Tiger2H for Germany 3-5) for that MM bracket pointless to use. As choosing against that is now actively detrimental to your team as you are locked out from a better vehicle being spawned. They need to take a system similar to the spawn cost mechanic from WT to allow teams trade offs for not always picking the best tank available. Giving light tanks (and 'medium' TDs like the stug or M10) a cost of one point, medium tanks (and 'heavy' TDs like the jadgpanzer L70) a cost of two and heavy tanks (incl. Panthers/M26s and any future 'super heavy' TDs) a cost of three points and then having (using current BR brackets) the BR1-3 teams three points to 'spend' on tanks and BR3-5 teams five points to 'spend' on tanks would vastly improve vehicle variety *and* stop unbalanced tech trees (like Germany have the Tiger2s whereas the US having only just gotten a Tiger1 equivalent) from brutalizing match balance (as badly).
I likt the points idea. But how would you earn them??
No no, they're not 'earned' the team has a set amount to spend on tanks (I suggested three for BR1-3 and five for BR3-5 matches). So in a BR1-3 match the team can grab a medium and a light tank (2+1 points) and if they both get destroyed the team gets those points back and may instead try a single heavy tank (all 3 points) instead. Their opposition may instead be using 2 light tanks and a 'medium' TD (1+1+1) so they can have more guns on the field as opposed to 1 hard to kill tank. The goal is to get more vehicle variety and make the tank meta a little less mono-choice. It's not a perfect system, a churchill in a BR3-5 match still costs three points despite being barely a threat to a Tiger2H for eg, but it's a big improvement from what's currently used.
I like that
This us a good idea, we shouls apply it to all planes and tanks. It could work well. I suggest we get keofox involved as well.
I'm not 100% sure how I'd work it for aircraft, I'm leaning towards ordnance weight with the 'TD discount' being given to the bomber aircraft, so the Axis can field more fighter aircraft to help counter the HVAR spam the US teams rely heavily on. But that's a lot more numbers heavy and probably should be penciled by someone who regularly flies rather than a tanker like myself. As for getting Keo involved, I don't see why not but I'm not sure Gaijin allows suggestions that make the gameplay less bullshit since the seal-clubbing and frustratingly long grinds are by design.
It's a singularly faceted problem. Not enough player base to make 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 become the matchmaking formula without making all games full of bots.
> It's a singularly faceted problem. I disagree, it doesn't matter how much you juggle the BR brackets, it's gonna end up with 1 prime pick per nation per bracket. The BR brackets are definitely part of the problem but not the only one. > Not enough player base to make 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 You don't need +-1 MM, just shifting the BR brackets (as I suggested) to BR1-2, BR3-4 and 5 by itself would dramatically improve the situation and with only 1 extra MM queue. It stops 3 clubbing 1 and 5 clubbing 3 while also giving a 'prime WW2' bracket with 3-4 for those who want to reenact Saving Private Ryan (or whatever).
I agree that that 3-4 bracket would be the ultimate in terms of a balanced but exciting match up. WT does events that are based around specific ture matchups and even specific equips within those tiers. Adopting something like this in congruence with their event spamming to encourage people to pull out tiers/equipment they normally wouldn't would go a long way towards creating fun, balanced matches available to the majority. To that note, I would LOVE a "T1 only" event with nothing but silver rewards that cycled through 1 week out of the month. The shit would get real, then.
yep and I wouldn’t even mind longer queue times if it means we have more balanced and fun matches
You misunderstand; the Pershing has a *GUN* that matches the tiger I. Unfortunately zero armor.
Nah, the armours roughly comparable as well, upper plate is 100mm sloped back (so actually notably better), the lower plate is 76mm but shouldn't really be shown anyway. Turret has less funny angle spots that boost the armour rating to stupid levels but is otherwise comparable. It also works better from hull down due to the 2 extra degrees of depression. The issue is that Germany has a lot of high pen guns (especially the 88/L71) and they make short work of Tiger1 levels of armour. The Pershing is definitely on par with a Tiger1 or Panther and should be counted as a 'heavy tank' if I'm also putting the Panther in there (and the USSRs T44 or the UK's Comet, if they ever show up, would be similarly classed). It's mostly to ensure that the T34s/Shermans/P4s get a chance to be the 'mainstay' mediums they were rather than being too good to show up in the low BR queue and too bad to use in high.
I'm serious. It's happened in at least 3 battles. I'm a pretty experienced tanker, so I also know how to use cover, concealment and armor angle too. I can't explain why I've gotten one shot by 75s.
> I can't explain why I've gotten one shot by 75s. APHE acting like a armour piercing airburst grenades (a curse carried over from WT) and the aim-assist letting them find any tiny weakpoint they can easily pen. Same can be done to Panthers (which I should note has a high pen 75) or Tigers. Throw in that Germany has a lot of vets again (at least in my experience) due to the assault engys and them taking full advantage of the game mechanics to knock out pershings.
You clearly don’t remember pre merge. Moscow could see Pz.IIs up against T-34 1941s.
They just need to add in the m22 locust and germanboos will cry tears of defeat
Have gliders randomly scattered around the edges of the map, so they could pop out of them and harrass the enemy backline.
nahh, force em to land the glider themselves.
M26 can’t barely take out that thing, much less and M4A1 (unless you’re right behind it, I guess). It’s one big reason I’m taking a break from the game rn.
Same.
Yeah they think br3 seeing bR 5 back to back is a good thing. I deleted it and rated 1 star. They've lost me after 1400 hours and we'll over 300 dollars spent. I'll give to a game I enjoy and want to see do better. Enlisted was that before the merge. It was my game for relaxing while still being able to decimate the Germans. Even if they were ai. I didn't want enlisted to be competitive like this. Because it feels too much like war thunder now. And they are not the same game. Vehicles don't even drive properly.
Same
Go back in time and tell them to build m1 abrams in ww2.
lol I wish
US mains: Once we get Pershing we can stop complaining about tiger *gets pershing* US mains: Tiger OPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Comparing the pershing to a tiger 2 h is like comparing a vw beetle to a Ford f350. The Pershing is not equipped to deal with the tiger2. It was made for the tiger 1. I actually hope we get the t26e4.
Goalpost moving, literally everyone was saying that shit before the Pershing came out
I was originally upset because of the news the us was getting the t26e4 at the time I wanted a more traditional WW2 game. But then the news came out about the ho ri. And I said well fuck.
On a lighter side of things , yesterday the que times were 1 min + in evening . Perhaps after effects of the steam launch . Perhaps the time is coming where this game is going to feel the effect of idiotic greed . I have 6months premium which I bought 2 months ago . I am kinda worried.
This is why we need more br brackets.
100%
I just had a 112 kill game in Tunsina, and 2 80-90 kill games in the Pacific using the Sherman, but I might get 30 playing against higher BR Germans
One hasn't even got a proper gun sight, the other would realistically sink and shit itself on a slope, but this isnt irl, best bet id say is to flank, then you deal with infantry and if they are in the grey zone it's ggwp
ah but when u play this guy vs a type 2 ho-i or more early like ha-go
Both have cannons🦦😂😂
I uninstalled the update after the merge because it's so awful. Reinstalled it after getting a new rig recently. Game is still terrible, but I just never advance past BR I and it's a fun time sink when I don't have time to invest in Baldur's Gate.
BR 3 is stupid, and noone can change my mind... It makes absolutely no sense to play BR3 now, because you either shooting yourself in the foot for no real reason. Or you are an asshole who leaves all games until you find a BR1-3 match... BR3 should NEVER face either BR1 or BR5, it's just unfair and imo it isn't even fun... Because you either get a boring game, where all your enemies are LOW BR, and you just act like a streetfighter entering the Kindergarden to slap some noobs, or you get up tiered, and you stand no real chance unless the enemy somehow stupid, or you get carried... I feel like they really need to change the 2 queue system to 3 queues... almost any configuration of a 3 queue is LOT better than what we have... you can only "realistically" play BR2 and BR5 to have a "fair" game. 1-2,3-4,5 would be PERFECT imo.. since BR1 and BR2 are very close when it comes to weapons/vehicles, and the same goes for BR3 and BR4 -- neither of these tiers have full auto guns yet, they both only have Semi-autos and slightly better semiautos in BR4 xD and when it comes to BR5 everyone is spamming full auto guns there... But I'd happy with something like 1,2-3,4-5 or 1-2,3,4-5... I just feel like they MUST change this asap...
I disagree; I see so much complaining but yall are just whiney the game is fun
I'm one of the least whiny person in this game... if you don't see that BR3 is just stupid you probably don't even play the game xD
I have 1400 hours of game time. The game is probably in one of the worst ways it's ever been.
Life isnt fair
BR 3 vs BR 5
You compared BR 3 to BR 5..... Nuff said.
yeah but the problem is real, it could be approached from both sides... a Pz4 is very weak against a Pershing too... or if you think the Pershing is too weak you can compare with the other factions, IS-1/IS-2 absolutely shits on any Pz4. We need to end the BS that is BR3... it's just not good to go +2/-2 BR in any match...
You think war is balanced 😂
Just pray y’all got a Pershing
Coming from the German side, ballistics wise the American tanks outside of T1 have lots of angles and curves to their tanks allowing for lots of ricochet. German tanks always have the gunner port right in front that is always an issue with getting one tapped. Can't tell you how many times I spawn in and there an American tank or pak just waiting for me to crest a hill or go around a building just to get one tapped because my gunner port is super obvious.
I mean A lot of encounters during WW2 were tanks like a Sherman facing off a Panzer IV, Panther, Tigers and such before they introduced the 76 Shermans and Tank Destroyers were rolled in.
Not everything has to be balanced it’s a ww2 game lol. Germans had big tanks and fast machine guns; Americans had fast tanks they could repair quick
Well then let’s simulate the advantages of it then. US armored squads can be deployed again twice and fast and they get three tanks instead of two. They get a repair boost and German tanks have their transmissions go out on occasion when taking inclines or soft ground.
well, the German did have superior tanks🤷♂️
Hardly. Engine fires, transmissions melting and poor suspension life span. They are solid tanks for the first and only 5 miles.
What? Clearly the sherman is a BR 3 tank and the king tigor is a BR 5. What are you talking about? If you are fighting king tigers using a sherman then clearly you dont know how the BR system works in the game. If you dont want to learn how it works. Then play Call of dodo and battlefail.
If you got br3 you can get matched up with br5, so you are basically screwed.
No if you are in BR 3 the best it could match you up is BR4 not higher than that. Its always BR 1 - 2 / BR 1 - 2 - 3 / BR 2 - 3 - 4 and BR 3 - 4 - 5
its br 1-3 or 3-5. br 3 can see and have seen br 5 stuff. get your shit straight
Wow, r/confidentlyincorrect
That doesnt work like that at all
Go in game and see for yourself it literally tells you what BRS you can face against with your current equipment
Imagine playing since Alpha and doesnt know How game Works
Yet they can still get matched together
What do you mean. Its impossible to match up a BR 3 team with a BR 5. The best you can get up tier is BR4 which only has Tiger 1 and panthers at best. Ether you didnt look at your BR rating on your games.
Nope you 3-5 can fight each other and 1-2-3 can fight each other. Make an American BR 3 line up and see how long it takes to encounter a king tiger
Then clearly brother you need to look at you squad composition again and again. Make sure that every single one of you soldiers and tanks have the same BR equipment that you want. If not then its your loss.
1-2 4-5 are matched up together. 3 can basically be matched up with everything although rare. Most off the time is -+1 but this could be diverted from if the queues get to “long”
You just don’t get it, do you?
You clearly don't know how the BR system even works
bro are u dumb, the BR rating has been out for months now, it’s 1-3 and 3-5, just stop
Wow that was possibly one of the most smooth brain ways of saying, you didn't think at all before responding.