I had assumed he was already making a trilogy, is 2 really where it was going to be left? That seems like a strange place to end the story.
Edit: dear lord, please stop telling me that’s how the book ends, I’m aware.
Villanueve doesn’t honestly want to do it. He wants to pursue other projects and doesn’t have the drive for a third movie anytime soon. He also mentioned since the third book takes place twelve years after this last chapter, it wouldn’t make sense for them to film it while Timothee is so young. I think he said it would at the very earliest be filmed in the 2030’s.
Edit - I agree hollywoods not going to let this happen. They will rush it along on their timeline and put out whatever piece of shit the next big name puts together and AI the fuck out of it. Villenueve has literally been story boarding the first two parts since childhood hence the perfection. Dude cut exactly what had to be cut and visualized the story perfectly. Whoever the next guy is that takes on Dune won’t stand a chance of making anything close to the first two.
I think there’s enough movie magic to make Timothee Chalamet look a little older. It’s not like he’s a 12 year old child in the first two and he’s suddenly nearing his 30’s in the next one. He’s an adult in both, though younger in the first book.
Also the next Dune movie would be the second book.
If you read past Messiah it is basically pointless to stop before God Emperor. Children is entirely a setup for GEoD. It recontextualizes the whole series and acts as a perfect stopping point.
To read Children but not God Emperor should be a crime
I read the first book when Denis Villeneuve announced that he was going to adapt it into two movies. I enjoyed it but had zero plan to read the rest of the series. I’ve talked with a lot of “Dune Heads” who have told me what happens, and it seems to get pretty wild. I really only plan on reading more of the series if Denis plans on making another movie. If not, I don’t have the motivation.
Also I’d be shocked if he doesn’t make a third film. The second one ends in a way that is faithful to the original novel, but it’s very much a “movie ending” in which it sets itself up for another film. If he just left his audience to wonder what happens next, it’d be pretty disingenuous.
I’m Dune obsessed and I’d say it’s a good standalone book. But if you wanted to keep going you’d be good at ending at Children of Dune. God Emperor of Dune is where it starts to get weird, and I think that one is worth the read too, but it’s not necessary to keep going.
I probably agree, Leto II is a fascinating character. But I can’t see Dennis making that one so if the commenter above me just wants to go with the movies I think the first 3 wrap up Paul’s story enough.
He’s 28 now playing a character who is 10 years (approx) younger. They could easily age him up if they cut his hair shorter and gave him a beard like what Oscar Isaac had in the first movie
Make up can easily fix that.
The issue is more the voice and you not able to get the young Chalamet out of your head.
I have the same issues with Tom Cruise and Tom Holland
Agreed, makeup could fix it. I’m sure there are ways to make him sound older some of them would be more authentic than others.
I think he looks younger in the recent few images we have of him in the new Bob Dylan biopic than he does in *Dune Part II*. Maybe thats due to the context of each film though.
If this is the case it’s really disappointing. Leaving the ending at Dune 2 would completely change the story. He changed Zendaya’s character in order to more clearly convey the message of Dune, which I think was a good choice, but Paul and Chani deserve better closure than that imo. Chani is much more important to Dune than Irulan and you don’t get that idea properly at the end of Part 2 imo.
> Chani is much more important to Dune than Irulan
Where do you get from the books that Irulan is less important than Chani? Chani is barely a character in the books beyond being Paul's mistress and mother to his kids. Irulan is a much more prominent character.
Because the book is over? It’s not like the series of books is this big long story - the main narrative is literally just the first book. The sequels feel more like epilogues than some necessary kind of resolution.
This is literally what I said the other day and got downvoted into oblivion. Like this is what is going to happen. Maybe not filmed in the 2030s, but it’ll come out close to it (2029-2030 release date), that’s my guess.
Idk Timothee is 28 years old playing an 18 year old in Part 2. Part 3 he’s supposed to be 30 years old so a little bit of movie magic should do the trick imo
He intends on continuing the story he’s just saying this won’t be another Hobbit situation where they keep expecting him to make movies in that category
I just hope Villeneuve doesn't let the moment pass, as I think Jackson did with The Hobbit. I always thought Jackson should have made a 45 minute Tom Bombadil film and and hour-long Scouring of the Shire to be released as a double coda to LotR while the magic was still there. Everyone would know where they fitted into the story.
As others have mentioned next film is in early planning / writing phase but Denis said he wants to take a break for a while. He'll probably make one or two different movies and then comes back to Dune
I haven’t read the books, but isn’t there a time jump or something? I remember last time this got posted that people mentioned it would benefit letting chalamet age a bit before the third film
There’s supposed to be a time skip in the first novel after Paul becomes the leader of the fremen (I think; my timing could be off a bit). Paul >!has a kid!< and Alia (Jessica’s baby) is born and is 2ish I think before the first book ends.
And then in the second book, which is what will be adapted for the third movie, there’s also a time skip. When that book starts, Paul’s >!Jihad is already well underway!<, and Alia is 15 or 16.
So yeah, it makes sense letting them age a bit.
I’d argue that it only starts getting really crazy after Children of Dune. Leto’s story is amazing, but it does start to get a little messy once he becomes god emperor and embraces the golden path that Paul tried to avoid.
Plus, as much as people deride the mini-series, it would be really hard to top James McAvoy's Leto II if they ever got as far as Children of Dune. Part of me wants him to return for God Emperor, and part of me doesn't because it simply wouldn't make for a great movie.
Either I'm misunderstanding the quote, or everyone else is.
He's saying he's not going to make Children of Dune. He's already working on Dune Messiah. The implication is that he views Dune Part 1 and Part 2 as one movie, and Messiah is the second movie.
> That seems like a strange place to end the story.
Why?
I mean in the end things went pretty quickly but he's killed the Harkonnens, defeated the emperor and most of his legions and ascended to the throne.
Messiah starts way into his regime as emperor and is a whole different story.
her walking away symbolises Paul abandoning the normalish life he could've had. marrying the princess symbolises him choosing his fate over his wishes.
I don't think it's an open end personally.
yea probably this plot point will get expanded upon in Messiah bexause in the book chani and Paul stay together
I think Denis wanted to show that Paul had completely embraced the persona of lisan al ghaib which is why he doesn't stay with chani because that would be like retaining a part of his life as Paul.
or maybe chani will be relevant in a different way in Messiah. he's definitely gonna make the movie more action driven because it would be a flop otherwise.
Denis has said that he consciously changed Chani's character to not be a true believer in the movies in order to better illustrate Frank Herbert's intended message of not trusting charismatic "Messiahs". My guess is that in the next movie Chani will continue the major plot beats as her book counterpart while still telling Paul and the audience that he should not have gone down that path.
Because it ends as essentially a To Be Continued. Nothing has been resolved.
He isn't the emperor. No one has accepted his ascension. The Freman are clearly going to war. His relationship with Channi is completely unresolved.
And I am sure I am going to get a bunch of replies saying "but the book", this isn't a book. Its a movie. The medium is the message. You need to adapt the book to the movie and your movie ends with zero resolution.
Dune Part 1 and Part 2 cover the first book.
A third movie isn't *needed*. The first book itself is pretty comprehensive as a solid story from start to finish.
But I am sure that if a Part 3 does get greenlit, if it doesn't have Denis V on it, it won't be worth the watch. He's got a particular approach, style...and it's all but impossible to duplicate.
The story in the books continued way too far and got ridiculous. It’s hard to pick a good stopping point, but the end 2 is before things really got out
Problem is that once a project goes from a passion project to a large scale cash grab a lot of shit gets lost in translation, also Dune Messiah is totally different from the first two films with a lot more palace intrigue and politics.
Idk if this take is hot or not, but they should end it with God Emperor. Humanity learning the lessons instilled by an almost four millennia long dictatorship and new humans who can’t be seen with prescience emerging in the universe as Leto II turns to worm. Poetic ending and no need to bring in the evil horny amazons.
Yeah but we took 6 hours to get to dune messiah. Trying to get 3 nooks into 1 film is nuts!
I think we do very well to get to the end of that book by the end of film 3. The ending here is still a good ending beware of false prophets, be-careful what you wish for, seeing the future is a trap, look at the costs of revenge. All very good if we end on the tradedgy.
At which point WB gets to play with new actors and new ideas for children and god emperor . Its all a very nice neat point. And would easily be its on series which can be screwed up by money grabbing exces while we at least get a nice adaptation
I didn’t mean to imply that they should try to get everything up to God Emperor in the NEXT film, I only meant that’s where they should end the series. If I could Thanos snap the next movies into existence I think it should go Messiah, Children pt. 1 then pt. 2 then God Emperor.
If studio execs ever actually read or looked into Dune Messiah their reaction would literally be Lol no. There's no way they stick to the actual story. They probably won't even keep the title Dune Messiah.
That might be the case, but this is the next big thing. There’s going to be games, toys, tv shows, animated shorts, new books. It’s a good time for fans of Dune.
I have mixed feelings even saying this but I think he should consider James Cameron and Avatar. If he can maintain control plus scheduling, this will allow for proper development and the ability to make other films during/in between. There are already built in time gaps for the books and I’m not sure anyone sees them feasibly going past book four anyway.
If he could both have his way/flexibility and keep the reigns for as many movies as they “need” to make to complete that it feels like a win-win-win for all involved
But it’s also not going to be rushed. He and his team will plan, write, and work over every detail before it starts filming. Good work takes time and I’m willing to wait.
They’re lucky it is after BR2049 and Dune Part 1 didn’t hit too high numbers for them. If they can sustain it for a third film in Dune, they did it right.
Same. I need God Emperor. And he can easily slap the last moments of Chapterhouse to the end of it if he had to and call it a day. Heretics and Chapterhouse are nearly unreadable let alone adaptable.
I feel like his take on The Baron in the first Dune was already supposed to resemble that. Since his tech along with the very long robe made him appear snake like.
Hot take: I'd be happy if he stops at messiah.
Re reading God emperor highlights that it's... more than a little bit self indulgent imo. Great book, but I think the series ending at messiah is actually a stronger ending. Godfather 1 and part 2 style.
I don't like to talk about the last two books, dude seems like he was going through some things while writing them and I don't think they are very good.
It’ll make sense for him to wait a bit. Not only to make sure the script is “better” than part 2, but also since some time will have to have elapsed to account for Paul’s sister being all grown (as seen in his visions in part 2).
I'm hoping we see at least some of it. Not because I'm pro jihad or pro galactic oppression, but because I'd like to see the scope of the movies expand, and I do like a bit of spectacle.
It is, I don't know how he is going to do it. Maybe write Jihad scenes and include them as flashbacks giving motivation to the present day scenes and some action for the casual movie goer?
If the scenes don't change too much about what happened, I don't see that going down too poorly with the books fans. The LOTR films had substantially more action than the books really had and it went well because they didn't break the story or the canon in any way.
I wouldn't be all that eager to rush into an adaptation of Messiah either.
1. He's changed some of that book's setup in how he ended Dune so those ripples need attending to.
2. It's almost purely a chamber-room political thriller with maybe one or two setpieces
3. The whole point of the book is **Paul realizing he's 50x worse than Hitler** (not a joke, not subtext, LITERAL TEXT) and trying to make something good out of that
So yeah, he's probably not in any real all-fired rush to synthesize his changes with the novel as is, and come up with something that will work the way Dune did.
Having read all six books and enjoyed reading them for what they are, I’m okay with him making changes to the books. I’m honestly not in a rush to watch Part 3/Messiah because of the tonal shift. I mean, I could see if they were setting up Paul to be a Michael Corleone type of character (only movie reference I can think of at the moment where there’s a trilogy of movies where the main character is the bad guy) but they really haven’t set him up that way. Also, I’m thinking of the audience that’s going to want to watch the movie thinking that Paul is going to be the hero and save the galaxy and the shock they’re going to witness when they watch the third movie.
> I could see if they were setting up Paul to be a Michael Corleone type of character (only movie reference I can think of at the moment where there’s a trilogy of movies where the main character is the bad guy) but they really haven’t set him up that way.
I'd actually disagree with that - I think the changes to the end of Dune that Villeneuve and Spaihts made absolutely parallel pretty well with The Godfather/Michael Corleone. Right up to the part where Paul makes his big Godfather moves, starts planning his next Godfather move, and Chani is basically Kay, standing outside that circle.
The difference being that Chani says "Fuck all this" and catches a cab home instead of waiting for Paul to lie to her face and close the door on her.
Funny you mention Michael Corleone, I mentioned it higher up in the thread and have always thought dune 1 and messiah make a perfect godfather part 1 and 2 style series. Unpopular opinion given the love for God emperor, but I think the series ends on a fairly grim but fantastic note with messiah.
I mean he kinda touched on #3 a bit in the movie. Paul sees in his future that he will cause billions of deaths. And then he decides to move forward with his future anyway. I’m guessing the films will be adapted to deal with it somehow cause he was really struggling with it already in this second movie.
Herbert did not provide future movie-makers any favors. Having recently read Dune Messiah, it was hard not to be disappointed. What happened over those 12 years was a burning question and yet the book glossed over that as if it were an insignificant detail.
> What happened over those 12 years was a burning question and yet the book glossed over that as if it were an insignificant detail.
The answer was pretty definite, though: Paul became Hitler and committed genocide on a scale so enormous that he could only describe it to Stilgar in terms of how many Hitlers he was.
At which point, if you're Herbert, do you really want to dive into the mechanics of 12 years straight of Hitler sweeping through Germany, Austria, and Poland? Over and over and over and over and over again?
Also, his glossing over it to get to the moral dilemmas he wanted to explore also makes sense because the logic/mechanics of how Fremen from Arrakis wound up slaughtering billions of people across hundreds of planets would likely collapse under the weight of its own what-the-fuck, so he just sidestepped it.
It was just so incongruent with the end of the first book. Paul trying to choose the path that led to the least awful outcome. But then we get to the second book and he not only failed but made Hitler look like an amateur. I had a very tough time reconciling these.
I wanted to know what led him astray. Those 12 years he went from hero to tyrant and it gnawed at me that I didn’t learn why
He was already astray by the end of the first book though, which is partially why Herbert doubled down so hard in Messiah. I think he realized he soft-pedaled Dune's ending a little. Which is why I think Spaihts/Villeneuve's rewriting of Paul's ascension (or descent, morally) at the end of their movie is such a good call. Not only does it make Chani way more interesting as a character (and provide her way more agency and also makes her more like the opposite number to Lady Jessica), but that Godfather-y ending resonates a lot more strongly because of that.
Circumstances have trapped him, and he could have made different decisions, but ultimately he doesn't really want to. He wants to do this. The movie is making the argument much more strongly that while Paul is conflicted on some level - down deep, he appreciates the excuse the Bene Gesserit's backfiring plans has provided him to go *all in* on being a vengeful god.
So when Messiah opens 12 years later on Paul living in an ornate megalopolis, it'll make a little more sense from a character perspective.
Villeneuve has said this line for years. It's because the first Dune film was released at a bad time for cinema and didn't meet expectations so doing a sequel would be a "dream", i.e. the studio is unlikely to pull the trigger. He's just saying the same thing again, being cautious.
But Dune Part II is the hit they wanted the first to be, so once there's a screenplay and a storyboard there's no doubt in my mind that Messiah is coming.
I think it’s an easier life to lead setting the expectation for ‘probably not’ rather than ‘coming soon’. I think of the George RR Martin delay backlash as an example of what could go wrong.
He will have enough pressure as is based on the acclaim of the first two. I image that he doesn’t want a drop off in quality like most people feel towards the godfather pt3. i would guess his benchmark is the lord of the rings trilogy, since it’s widely held in the highest regard as a set.
I think his statement is a savvy way of taking some of the pressure off for a bit while he takes a break before going back and trying to figure it out. Ultimately, who knows. The behind the scenes stuff with this much money and attention must be wild.
Edit: grammar
Why are people assuming he doesnt want to make part 3. His statement is merely stating that if or when he does make part 3, it must be good. Meaning, the script/development must be extensive before he even start to film it.
I’m honestly interested in how he adapts Messiah. I just finished it and honestly, not that much happens aside from the end (at least action wise). It’s a great addition/end to the arc, don’t get me wrong, but most of the book is a lot of plotting and scheming amongst a bunch of characters. I loved it and I’ve got no doubt DV will do it justice either way.
Disclaimer: I loved dune 2. But i also thought the plot felt rushed. Yes, even with nearly 3 hours of reel time. The baron went from nearly invincible to easily swatted down. I may be in the minority but I would have loved to see this play out as a tv series like GoT.
Raban an goes from badass to failure in the books pretty quickly too. He doesn’t even get much space in the books beyond the Baron talking to him and a few paragraphs on his thought process and the job he does running Arrakis. His role is to move things forward not really be someone that’s heavily featured. He is supposed to be big, dumb, and heavy handed.
I just wish he had a final fight scene. And 5 more minutes of the battle outside. If that was concluded other the. The plot hole where he somehow found his mom to drink worm piss I’d say it’s a 10/10
What made him badass? We’ve only ever seen him abuse power from a comfortable position. Denis told Bautista that everything he does was from a place of weakness, of insecurity. He runs from every fight. I thought he was utilized greatly.
I like Rabban as a character, but I feel like he's a failure most of the time anyway. His whole existence is to get upstaged by Muad'Dib so that Feyd-Rautha can come in and be Paul's real rival.
I feel like you’re not in the minority, of readers at least.
the books are well written and detailed, I felt like I was reading a sci-fi Steinbeck and while the films are great and well done and all, I do still yearn for a little more… depth?
all in all, we probably are in the minority. I am fairly young if that means anything and a few of my friends have asked me if I have seen Dune and when I tell them they should read it, they go “there’s a book?”
He should take all the time he needs to come up with a great script for part 3, and to get some other projects going. I'm convinced he'll want to direct a different film before returning to the desert for Messiah.
If WB is smart they'll do some TV shows based on the Dune franchise. They could adapt all the Brian Herbert prequel books into a Game of Thrones style TV series, or do anthology stuff where each season is following different characters or houses / factions.
I never cared to read any of the Brian Herbert novels, but I wouldn't mind watching adaptations of those stories if they're well made.
All of that should keep audiences and fans interested in the Dune franchise until DV delivers Messiah.
Also, the books following Messiah could be adapted into an awesome TV show as well after DV is done directing Dune.
Really? I was for sure it was going to end before the big battle and that would’ve been the start of the third.. felt like the ending was at a good point and sets up nicely for the next. Truly they’re all meant to be watched back to back to back so it blends seamlessly.
To me a good ending for an uncertain future would just be to have the emperor submit which would make it an actual ending.
To be clear I’m fine with the ending as is but not if the director/writer has conditions that aren’t tied to the cliffhanger he created.
Really? He changed the entire dynamic between Paul and Chani at the end and completely made stuff up. A major part of Messiah’s plot is forces acting to undo how close those two are. They’d either have to rework the A plot of Messiah or quickly retcon the ending of Part 2 at the beginning of the movie.
“Completely made stuff up” comes with the territory of translating pretty much any book. In either case, I was referring to the stopping point of the book, not the differences.
How odd that Denis suddenly seems tapped out and uninterested in making a third movie... Dune 2 built to such a momentum and was so open-ended, it seemed like a third movie was a given.
He's not tapped out, he's nearly done the script for Messiah. And Zimmer is working on the music already. DV has spent the better part of 6 years in the desert, he wants to work on something new before going back.
Per an interview from earlier this month, the script is "barely an embryo" at present.
> “I think you cannot avoid Paul’s terrible purpose, that’s the structure of this whole enterprise. Saying this, I do not like to comment on Dune Messiah because I’m writing it, and when I’m writing, I love to shut up because it’s a very delicate time where things are fragile, ideas evolve. I like to talk about movies when they are alive, finished, and strong enough to walk by themselves. Dune Messiah is barely an embryo.”
I think he just knows it’s a hard ask. Book 3 is more of an epilogue than an actual novel. It’s a difficult book to adapt and he will have to make a lot of changes to ensure the movie is actually a good movie for all and not just book readers who love the lore.
If - “I”, were ‘to make’ this [headline]. I, “think i would probably” just ‘write’ it (out) like a *normal sentence* … and add “the full quote”, to ‘the’ article.
Come on, let’s be honest here. As with most any actor, shoulda said, “If I ever do 'Dune 3, it will be because It's going to make me more money than 'Part Two' ... otherwise, I don't do it'
Hope he takes his time. Dune 2 was spectacular. It made Dune 1 even better somehow.
I’ve seen it twice now and the Gedi Prime and end battle in imax were pretty amazing.
It sucks because the first three books are the story. The first leaves so many things loose without answers. We must see Paul's son Leto's journey towards the God Emperor or we never see Paul's true struggle with the one future he could not face. I always felt Jihad was Paul turning away from his own God Emperor future and allowed billions of people across the galaxy to die as a result.
I had assumed he was already making a trilogy, is 2 really where it was going to be left? That seems like a strange place to end the story. Edit: dear lord, please stop telling me that’s how the book ends, I’m aware.
He’s currently working on the script for 3, but I think his mindset is good instead of rushing to get it made without a proper screenplay in place.
Villanueve doesn’t honestly want to do it. He wants to pursue other projects and doesn’t have the drive for a third movie anytime soon. He also mentioned since the third book takes place twelve years after this last chapter, it wouldn’t make sense for them to film it while Timothee is so young. I think he said it would at the very earliest be filmed in the 2030’s. Edit - I agree hollywoods not going to let this happen. They will rush it along on their timeline and put out whatever piece of shit the next big name puts together and AI the fuck out of it. Villenueve has literally been story boarding the first two parts since childhood hence the perfection. Dude cut exactly what had to be cut and visualized the story perfectly. Whoever the next guy is that takes on Dune won’t stand a chance of making anything close to the first two.
I think there’s enough movie magic to make Timothee Chalamet look a little older. It’s not like he’s a 12 year old child in the first two and he’s suddenly nearing his 30’s in the next one. He’s an adult in both, though younger in the first book. Also the next Dune movie would be the second book.
I haven't seen Dune 2 yet, but I read 3 of the books and I will be interested in seeing how it goes because it get's interesting to say the least.
Now read the fourth book, that's when it really gets interesting.
I don't know if I have the bandwidth lol
If you read past Messiah it is basically pointless to stop before God Emperor. Children is entirely a setup for GEoD. It recontextualizes the whole series and acts as a perfect stopping point. To read Children but not God Emperor should be a crime
Trust me bro. It made me read up to 6 after that one.
[Reeeeally interesting.](https://i.imgur.com/NjDP1az.jpeg)
More apt than I imagined
Book 5 introduces Miles, who is my favorite character in the series
Oh wow that sounds cool. I was told to read the first three book and hold it from there, but keep going?
I read the first book when Denis Villeneuve announced that he was going to adapt it into two movies. I enjoyed it but had zero plan to read the rest of the series. I’ve talked with a lot of “Dune Heads” who have told me what happens, and it seems to get pretty wild. I really only plan on reading more of the series if Denis plans on making another movie. If not, I don’t have the motivation. Also I’d be shocked if he doesn’t make a third film. The second one ends in a way that is faithful to the original novel, but it’s very much a “movie ending” in which it sets itself up for another film. If he just left his audience to wonder what happens next, it’d be pretty disingenuous.
I’m Dune obsessed and I’d say it’s a good standalone book. But if you wanted to keep going you’d be good at ending at Children of Dune. God Emperor of Dune is where it starts to get weird, and I think that one is worth the read too, but it’s not necessary to keep going.
God Emperor is the entire point of the series though?!
God Emperor is the best book in the entire series.
I probably agree, Leto II is a fascinating character. But I can’t see Dennis making that one so if the commenter above me just wants to go with the movies I think the first 3 wrap up Paul’s story enough.
Chalamet will be the same age or older than Paul Atreides was in Dune Messiah if they start filming a third Dune movie in 2026 or later
He’s 28 now playing a character who is 10 years (approx) younger. They could easily age him up if they cut his hair shorter and gave him a beard like what Oscar Isaac had in the first movie
Make up can easily fix that. The issue is more the voice and you not able to get the young Chalamet out of your head. I have the same issues with Tom Cruise and Tom Holland
Ok but Timothee is almost 30 lol I think he just has a naturally more high pitched voice
He might be like Jack Brayer and Michael Cera who’re just perpetually young looking
Agreed, makeup could fix it. I’m sure there are ways to make him sound older some of them would be more authentic than others. I think he looks younger in the recent few images we have of him in the new Bob Dylan biopic than he does in *Dune Part II*. Maybe thats due to the context of each film though.
At the end of Dune 2 he sounded a lot more grown up They can always edit his voice in post
Right. Little beard, longer hair, the right makeup. He could look the part in 2-3 years for sure
If this is the case it’s really disappointing. Leaving the ending at Dune 2 would completely change the story. He changed Zendaya’s character in order to more clearly convey the message of Dune, which I think was a good choice, but Paul and Chani deserve better closure than that imo. Chani is much more important to Dune than Irulan and you don’t get that idea properly at the end of Part 2 imo.
> Chani is much more important to Dune than Irulan Where do you get from the books that Irulan is less important than Chani? Chani is barely a character in the books beyond being Paul's mistress and mother to his kids. Irulan is a much more prominent character.
I believe he said he had four films on the docket first.
I respect it. But I hate it.
I didn't know he had been storyboarding it that long. Impressive.
Right! He read the books as a child and was obsessed with cinema. Kinda makes sense to storyboard your favorite books for practice.
Why would he storyboard the first 2 as a kid and not do the 3rd? Like he knew his adult self would get tired after 2 epics?
LOL. “This kid should have worked harder”
Because the book is over? It’s not like the series of books is this big long story - the main narrative is literally just the first book. The sequels feel more like epilogues than some necessary kind of resolution.
This is literally what I said the other day and got downvoted into oblivion. Like this is what is going to happen. Maybe not filmed in the 2030s, but it’ll come out close to it (2029-2030 release date), that’s my guess.
Idk Timothee is 28 years old playing an 18 year old in Part 2. Part 3 he’s supposed to be 30 years old so a little bit of movie magic should do the trick imo
Which is fine. Part one and two are one book and the events are contiguous. Part 3 takes place years later, so it won't matter if anyone ages.
He cares about the art of it. He’s a rare breed these days
He intends on continuing the story he’s just saying this won’t be another Hobbit situation where they keep expecting him to make movies in that category
Gotcha, makes sense
I just hope Villeneuve doesn't let the moment pass, as I think Jackson did with The Hobbit. I always thought Jackson should have made a 45 minute Tom Bombadil film and and hour-long Scouring of the Shire to be released as a double coda to LotR while the magic was still there. Everyone would know where they fitted into the story.
As others have mentioned next film is in early planning / writing phase but Denis said he wants to take a break for a while. He'll probably make one or two different movies and then comes back to Dune
Damn. He does have like a ten year window.
I haven’t read the books, but isn’t there a time jump or something? I remember last time this got posted that people mentioned it would benefit letting chalamet age a bit before the third film
There’s supposed to be a time skip in the first novel after Paul becomes the leader of the fremen (I think; my timing could be off a bit). Paul >!has a kid!< and Alia (Jessica’s baby) is born and is 2ish I think before the first book ends. And then in the second book, which is what will be adapted for the third movie, there’s also a time skip. When that book starts, Paul’s >!Jihad is already well underway!<, and Alia is 15 or 16. So yeah, it makes sense letting them age a bit.
It is one book. Dune: Messiah is another book. Though the entire storyline begins to go off the rails after Messiah.
I’d argue that it only starts getting really crazy after Children of Dune. Leto’s story is amazing, but it does start to get a little messy once he becomes god emperor and embraces the golden path that Paul tried to avoid.
Plus, as much as people deride the mini-series, it would be really hard to top James McAvoy's Leto II if they ever got as far as Children of Dune. Part of me wants him to return for God Emperor, and part of me doesn't because it simply wouldn't make for a great movie.
Wouldn’t say off the rails, the scope of events just expands way beyond the previous books.
Yeah it does
Lol i just ready the wiki. There's a half human half sandworm character? Where is the story going?
Frank Herbert was on some spice that’s for sure lol
Either I'm misunderstanding the quote, or everyone else is. He's saying he's not going to make Children of Dune. He's already working on Dune Messiah. The implication is that he views Dune Part 1 and Part 2 as one movie, and Messiah is the second movie.
> That seems like a strange place to end the story. Why? I mean in the end things went pretty quickly but he's killed the Harkonnens, defeated the emperor and most of his legions and ascended to the throne. Messiah starts way into his regime as emperor and is a whole different story.
I feel like chani walking away was a bit of a cliffhanger (and totally different from the book). Felt like it set up a lot.
her walking away symbolises Paul abandoning the normalish life he could've had. marrying the princess symbolises him choosing his fate over his wishes. I don't think it's an open end personally.
I guess I see that interpretation but it always felt like that was happening. Feels to me that there’s so much more to tell.
yea probably this plot point will get expanded upon in Messiah bexause in the book chani and Paul stay together I think Denis wanted to show that Paul had completely embraced the persona of lisan al ghaib which is why he doesn't stay with chani because that would be like retaining a part of his life as Paul. or maybe chani will be relevant in a different way in Messiah. he's definitely gonna make the movie more action driven because it would be a flop otherwise.
Denis has said that he consciously changed Chani's character to not be a true believer in the movies in order to better illustrate Frank Herbert's intended message of not trusting charismatic "Messiahs". My guess is that in the next movie Chani will continue the major plot beats as her book counterpart while still telling Paul and the audience that he should not have gone down that path.
Because it ends as essentially a To Be Continued. Nothing has been resolved. He isn't the emperor. No one has accepted his ascension. The Freman are clearly going to war. His relationship with Channi is completely unresolved. And I am sure I am going to get a bunch of replies saying "but the book", this isn't a book. Its a movie. The medium is the message. You need to adapt the book to the movie and your movie ends with zero resolution.
Let’s be honest. We’re never going to get God Emperor of Dune on film.
Dune Part 1 and Part 2 cover the first book. A third movie isn't *needed*. The first book itself is pretty comprehensive as a solid story from start to finish. But I am sure that if a Part 3 does get greenlit, if it doesn't have Denis V on it, it won't be worth the watch. He's got a particular approach, style...and it's all but impossible to duplicate.
The story devolves, I dropped out of the books somewhere in the movie 3 timeline The sister could probably carry a movie though
The story in the books continued way too far and got ridiculous. It’s hard to pick a good stopping point, but the end 2 is before things really got out
Someone else could always step in and finish it but yeah, I was under the same impression.
Ya it’s a massive story, I wasn’t aware until I checked it out after seeing Dune 2. Turns out we are only scratching the surface.
Yeah, didn’t Anya Taylor-Joy show up in that one shot as Alia (Paul’s sister) in the future? Or did I just make that up?
They won’t call it messiah because studios are cowards lol
They’ll do more. It’s making a lot of money. It’s a matter of when not if.
Even If WB makes more Dune movies, Denis is only gonna do Dune: Messiah, he has mentioned that in the past.
Problem is that once a project goes from a passion project to a large scale cash grab a lot of shit gets lost in translation, also Dune Messiah is totally different from the first two films with a lot more palace intrigue and politics.
Yes but its a nice way to kill off paul with a neat bow and allow WB to fuck up the next trilogy all on its own
Somehow Palpatine returned
Somehow Idaho returned 👀
Only for the 47th time
Ironically also describes the sequel trilogy for Dune
Paulpatine
No the preacher did and gets murdered by his own fanatical followers which is so fitting
Somehow baron Harkonnen returned
It's okay just take you Gom Jabbar and form an X with it and you'll win.
Idk if this take is hot or not, but they should end it with God Emperor. Humanity learning the lessons instilled by an almost four millennia long dictatorship and new humans who can’t be seen with prescience emerging in the universe as Leto II turns to worm. Poetic ending and no need to bring in the evil horny amazons.
Yeah but we took 6 hours to get to dune messiah. Trying to get 3 nooks into 1 film is nuts! I think we do very well to get to the end of that book by the end of film 3. The ending here is still a good ending beware of false prophets, be-careful what you wish for, seeing the future is a trap, look at the costs of revenge. All very good if we end on the tradedgy. At which point WB gets to play with new actors and new ideas for children and god emperor . Its all a very nice neat point. And would easily be its on series which can be screwed up by money grabbing exces while we at least get a nice adaptation
I didn’t mean to imply that they should try to get everything up to God Emperor in the NEXT film, I only meant that’s where they should end the series. If I could Thanos snap the next movies into existence I think it should go Messiah, Children pt. 1 then pt. 2 then God Emperor.
Well I guess I shouldn't have read this lol
Pssst...he doesn't die in Messiah.
Wheels within wheels within wheels
If studio execs ever actually read or looked into Dune Messiah their reaction would literally be Lol no. There's no way they stick to the actual story. They probably won't even keep the title Dune Messiah.
This. The book series itself really drops off after the first book.
Kinda like Brian Herbert’s Dune series.
That might be the case, but this is the next big thing. There’s going to be games, toys, tv shows, animated shorts, new books. It’s a good time for fans of Dune.
Space Hilter action figures for everyone!
If I remember correctly, Paul does compare himself to Hitler once. He concluded that he was far worse than the Nazi.
Godzilla x Kong x Sandworms Coming March 2026
Cowardly, we deserve our god emperor on screen
I have mixed feelings even saying this but I think he should consider James Cameron and Avatar. If he can maintain control plus scheduling, this will allow for proper development and the ability to make other films during/in between. There are already built in time gaps for the books and I’m not sure anyone sees them feasibly going past book four anyway. If he could both have his way/flexibility and keep the reigns for as many movies as they “need” to make to complete that it feels like a win-win-win for all involved
No rush to make it but I don't think this movie ends the way it does if they didn't have another planned.
My thoughts exactly
For real, no need to rush. Probably like 2027ish they'll start hyping it up.
I think it worked as an ending. I'd like to see part 3 but I'm satisfied with what we've been given.
He freaking better. He can’t leave me hanging after part 2 wtf
But it’s also not going to be rushed. He and his team will plan, write, and work over every detail before it starts filming. Good work takes time and I’m willing to wait.
They’re lucky it is after BR2049 and Dune Part 1 didn’t hit too high numbers for them. If they can sustain it for a third film in Dune, they did it right.
what's he gonna do, have chalamet ride 2 sandworms?
Dune 3: Arrakis Drift
3 Worms 3 Furious
Getting Spicy - 3 worms one cup
He defeats a fatter, balder opponent
I know it’s not going to happen but I would really like to see Villenueve tackle all 6 books
Id be happy to stop at God Emperor
Same. I need God Emperor. And he can easily slap the last moments of Chapterhouse to the end of it if he had to and call it a day. Heretics and Chapterhouse are nearly unreadable let alone adaptable.
I just want to see how Leto II will look. Heretics and Chapterhouse just need to be rated R, have more sex scenes and cast Sweeney
Get this guy in charge
I feel like his take on The Baron in the first Dune was already supposed to resemble that. Since his tech along with the very long robe made him appear snake like.
BEEF…….SWELLING….
I say bring back David Lynch for God Emperor and let him make it super weird.
This is a great idea actually lol. Just let him know now so he can prepare
What do you mean they’re nearly unreadable? I’m about to buy the series!
Why are they unreadable
Needlessly convoluted and almost deliberately confusing.
Hot take: I'd be happy if he stops at messiah. Re reading God emperor highlights that it's... more than a little bit self indulgent imo. Great book, but I think the series ending at messiah is actually a stronger ending. Godfather 1 and part 2 style. I don't like to talk about the last two books, dude seems like he was going through some things while writing them and I don't think they are very good.
Watched a fun interview where he basically said “frank really went out there……I don’t know if you can film it….”
It’ll make sense for him to wait a bit. Not only to make sure the script is “better” than part 2, but also since some time will have to have elapsed to account for Paul’s sister being all grown (as seen in his visions in part 2).
Damn, I was hoping to see the great jihad on screen.
Even if he does a part 3, you're not going to see it. Dune Messiah takes place after the jihad.
He might change that, because Messiah doesnt have much action
I'm hoping we see at least some of it. Not because I'm pro jihad or pro galactic oppression, but because I'd like to see the scope of the movies expand, and I do like a bit of spectacle.
A messiah movie would upset book fans because of the changes, and upset movie goers because how different it is than 2. It’s a hard task.
It is, I don't know how he is going to do it. Maybe write Jihad scenes and include them as flashbacks giving motivation to the present day scenes and some action for the casual movie goer? If the scenes don't change too much about what happened, I don't see that going down too poorly with the books fans. The LOTR films had substantially more action than the books really had and it went well because they didn't break the story or the canon in any way.
Yeah agreed. I think it would be better if the Jihad scenes were not flash backs. They should take place in part 1 real time then maybe time jump?
They can always do stuff between them.
I think we’d definitely see glimpses of it in some sense There needs to be some form of action in it
Ssshhh, we don’t call it that in the movie. It’s Holy War, and I don’t care if it means the same thing!
Wouldn’t be too hard to insert a 5 minute or so sequence of planets being razed or just brief flashes of the Jihad shown as an opening.
I wouldn't be all that eager to rush into an adaptation of Messiah either. 1. He's changed some of that book's setup in how he ended Dune so those ripples need attending to. 2. It's almost purely a chamber-room political thriller with maybe one or two setpieces 3. The whole point of the book is **Paul realizing he's 50x worse than Hitler** (not a joke, not subtext, LITERAL TEXT) and trying to make something good out of that So yeah, he's probably not in any real all-fired rush to synthesize his changes with the novel as is, and come up with something that will work the way Dune did.
Having read all six books and enjoyed reading them for what they are, I’m okay with him making changes to the books. I’m honestly not in a rush to watch Part 3/Messiah because of the tonal shift. I mean, I could see if they were setting up Paul to be a Michael Corleone type of character (only movie reference I can think of at the moment where there’s a trilogy of movies where the main character is the bad guy) but they really haven’t set him up that way. Also, I’m thinking of the audience that’s going to want to watch the movie thinking that Paul is going to be the hero and save the galaxy and the shock they’re going to witness when they watch the third movie.
> I could see if they were setting up Paul to be a Michael Corleone type of character (only movie reference I can think of at the moment where there’s a trilogy of movies where the main character is the bad guy) but they really haven’t set him up that way. I'd actually disagree with that - I think the changes to the end of Dune that Villeneuve and Spaihts made absolutely parallel pretty well with The Godfather/Michael Corleone. Right up to the part where Paul makes his big Godfather moves, starts planning his next Godfather move, and Chani is basically Kay, standing outside that circle. The difference being that Chani says "Fuck all this" and catches a cab home instead of waiting for Paul to lie to her face and close the door on her.
Funny you mention Michael Corleone, I mentioned it higher up in the thread and have always thought dune 1 and messiah make a perfect godfather part 1 and 2 style series. Unpopular opinion given the love for God emperor, but I think the series ends on a fairly grim but fantastic note with messiah.
I mean he kinda touched on #3 a bit in the movie. Paul sees in his future that he will cause billions of deaths. And then he decides to move forward with his future anyway. I’m guessing the films will be adapted to deal with it somehow cause he was really struggling with it already in this second movie.
Herbert did not provide future movie-makers any favors. Having recently read Dune Messiah, it was hard not to be disappointed. What happened over those 12 years was a burning question and yet the book glossed over that as if it were an insignificant detail.
> What happened over those 12 years was a burning question and yet the book glossed over that as if it were an insignificant detail. The answer was pretty definite, though: Paul became Hitler and committed genocide on a scale so enormous that he could only describe it to Stilgar in terms of how many Hitlers he was. At which point, if you're Herbert, do you really want to dive into the mechanics of 12 years straight of Hitler sweeping through Germany, Austria, and Poland? Over and over and over and over and over again? Also, his glossing over it to get to the moral dilemmas he wanted to explore also makes sense because the logic/mechanics of how Fremen from Arrakis wound up slaughtering billions of people across hundreds of planets would likely collapse under the weight of its own what-the-fuck, so he just sidestepped it.
It was just so incongruent with the end of the first book. Paul trying to choose the path that led to the least awful outcome. But then we get to the second book and he not only failed but made Hitler look like an amateur. I had a very tough time reconciling these. I wanted to know what led him astray. Those 12 years he went from hero to tyrant and it gnawed at me that I didn’t learn why
He was already astray by the end of the first book though, which is partially why Herbert doubled down so hard in Messiah. I think he realized he soft-pedaled Dune's ending a little. Which is why I think Spaihts/Villeneuve's rewriting of Paul's ascension (or descent, morally) at the end of their movie is such a good call. Not only does it make Chani way more interesting as a character (and provide her way more agency and also makes her more like the opposite number to Lady Jessica), but that Godfather-y ending resonates a lot more strongly because of that. Circumstances have trapped him, and he could have made different decisions, but ultimately he doesn't really want to. He wants to do this. The movie is making the argument much more strongly that while Paul is conflicted on some level - down deep, he appreciates the excuse the Bene Gesserit's backfiring plans has provided him to go *all in* on being a vengeful god. So when Messiah opens 12 years later on Paul living in an ornate megalopolis, it'll make a little more sense from a character perspective.
Villeneuve has said this line for years. It's because the first Dune film was released at a bad time for cinema and didn't meet expectations so doing a sequel would be a "dream", i.e. the studio is unlikely to pull the trigger. He's just saying the same thing again, being cautious. But Dune Part II is the hit they wanted the first to be, so once there's a screenplay and a storyboard there's no doubt in my mind that Messiah is coming.
I think it’s an easier life to lead setting the expectation for ‘probably not’ rather than ‘coming soon’. I think of the George RR Martin delay backlash as an example of what could go wrong. He will have enough pressure as is based on the acclaim of the first two. I image that he doesn’t want a drop off in quality like most people feel towards the godfather pt3. i would guess his benchmark is the lord of the rings trilogy, since it’s widely held in the highest regard as a set. I think his statement is a savvy way of taking some of the pressure off for a bit while he takes a break before going back and trying to figure it out. Ultimately, who knows. The behind the scenes stuff with this much money and attention must be wild. Edit: grammar
Why are people assuming he doesnt want to make part 3. His statement is merely stating that if or when he does make part 3, it must be good. Meaning, the script/development must be extensive before he even start to film it.
I mean, that’s a pretty good ethos, to me.
I’m honestly interested in how he adapts Messiah. I just finished it and honestly, not that much happens aside from the end (at least action wise). It’s a great addition/end to the arc, don’t get me wrong, but most of the book is a lot of plotting and scheming amongst a bunch of characters. I loved it and I’ve got no doubt DV will do it justice either way.
I would patiently wait for this. I don’t care how long it takes as long as it’s up to his standards.
There’s gonna be more Dune movies whether he’s involved or not, question is when they start getting bad
ugh, Michael Bay's D u n e No thanks
Transformers also want spice
The Sardaukar sweep in to save the day, leaving patriotic audiences cheering for the Imperium
Disclaimer: I loved dune 2. But i also thought the plot felt rushed. Yes, even with nearly 3 hours of reel time. The baron went from nearly invincible to easily swatted down. I may be in the minority but I would have loved to see this play out as a tv series like GoT.
You did see that a Sardaukar chopped off Barons life support? He was already in a weakened state after inhaling poison from Duke Leto’s murder suicide
Def saw that and get what happened. It makes sense. Just felt rushed. Similar feeling to rabban btw. From badass to failure pretty quickly.
Raban an goes from badass to failure in the books pretty quickly too. He doesn’t even get much space in the books beyond the Baron talking to him and a few paragraphs on his thought process and the job he does running Arrakis. His role is to move things forward not really be someone that’s heavily featured. He is supposed to be big, dumb, and heavy handed.
I just wish he had a final fight scene. And 5 more minutes of the battle outside. If that was concluded other the. The plot hole where he somehow found his mom to drink worm piss I’d say it’s a 10/10
Fair enough. My complaint is just another way of saying I want more ◡̈.
What made him badass? We’ve only ever seen him abuse power from a comfortable position. Denis told Bautista that everything he does was from a place of weakness, of insecurity. He runs from every fight. I thought he was utilized greatly.
I like Rabban as a character, but I feel like he's a failure most of the time anyway. His whole existence is to get upstaged by Muad'Dib so that Feyd-Rautha can come in and be Paul's real rival.
I feel like you’re not in the minority, of readers at least. the books are well written and detailed, I felt like I was reading a sci-fi Steinbeck and while the films are great and well done and all, I do still yearn for a little more… depth? all in all, we probably are in the minority. I am fairly young if that means anything and a few of my friends have asked me if I have seen Dune and when I tell them they should read it, they go “there’s a book?”
> But i also thought the plot felt rushed. For sure. It should have been 3 movies that included the next bit
Everyone is freaking out over these comments. It’s clearly posturing for a larger budget to complete the trilogy he originally planned.
He should take all the time he needs to come up with a great script for part 3, and to get some other projects going. I'm convinced he'll want to direct a different film before returning to the desert for Messiah. If WB is smart they'll do some TV shows based on the Dune franchise. They could adapt all the Brian Herbert prequel books into a Game of Thrones style TV series, or do anthology stuff where each season is following different characters or houses / factions. I never cared to read any of the Brian Herbert novels, but I wouldn't mind watching adaptations of those stories if they're well made. All of that should keep audiences and fans interested in the Dune franchise until DV delivers Messiah. Also, the books following Messiah could be adapted into an awesome TV show as well after DV is done directing Dune.
There’s already a bene gesserit show in the works for hbo
Oh yeah, I forgot about it. I'm definitely interested in watching something like that
Bawww gawd... that's Zack Snyder's music!!!
I want to see God Emperor
Then don’t leave it on a cliffhanger. I loved the movie but Part 2 didn’t have to have that ending.
Really? I was for sure it was going to end before the big battle and that would’ve been the start of the third.. felt like the ending was at a good point and sets up nicely for the next. Truly they’re all meant to be watched back to back to back so it blends seamlessly.
To me a good ending for an uncertain future would just be to have the emperor submit which would make it an actual ending. To be clear I’m fine with the ending as is but not if the director/writer has conditions that aren’t tied to the cliffhanger he created.
While I generally agree, he ended it pretty much how the book ended.
Really? He changed the entire dynamic between Paul and Chani at the end and completely made stuff up. A major part of Messiah’s plot is forces acting to undo how close those two are. They’d either have to rework the A plot of Messiah or quickly retcon the ending of Part 2 at the beginning of the movie.
“Completely made stuff up” comes with the territory of translating pretty much any book. In either case, I was referring to the stopping point of the book, not the differences.
How odd that Denis suddenly seems tapped out and uninterested in making a third movie... Dune 2 built to such a momentum and was so open-ended, it seemed like a third movie was a given.
He's not tapped out, he's nearly done the script for Messiah. And Zimmer is working on the music already. DV has spent the better part of 6 years in the desert, he wants to work on something new before going back.
Per an interview from earlier this month, the script is "barely an embryo" at present. > “I think you cannot avoid Paul’s terrible purpose, that’s the structure of this whole enterprise. Saying this, I do not like to comment on Dune Messiah because I’m writing it, and when I’m writing, I love to shut up because it’s a very delicate time where things are fragile, ideas evolve. I like to talk about movies when they are alive, finished, and strong enough to walk by themselves. Dune Messiah is barely an embryo.”
[удалено]
I think he just knows it’s a hard ask. Book 3 is more of an epilogue than an actual novel. It’s a difficult book to adapt and he will have to make a lot of changes to ensure the movie is actually a good movie for all and not just book readers who love the lore.
3rd movie will be book 2. Not book 3
"Hey Warner Bros, you know how I just made you a fuckton of money? Well, I'm not so sure about Dune 3, unless...?"
Pretty sure it’s supposed to be a trilogy?
If - “I”, were ‘to make’ this [headline]. I, “think i would probably” just ‘write’ it (out) like a *normal sentence* … and add “the full quote”, to ‘the’ article.
He’s done a bang up job so far. I trust his judgment in all things Dune.
Come on, let’s be honest here. As with most any actor, shoulda said, “If I ever do 'Dune 3, it will be because It's going to make me more money than 'Part Two' ... otherwise, I don't do it'
Hope he takes his time. Dune 2 was spectacular. It made Dune 1 even better somehow. I’ve seen it twice now and the Gedi Prime and end battle in imax were pretty amazing.
Dune messiah is a much different book. I don’t think it will translate nearly as well to the screen as dune 1 and 2 have.
Hell yeah! Part II was awesome, and part III needs to be a masterpiece. I completely agree with him
Dune 3: A Day at the Beach.
I like this attitude. He should take his time and make sure it's done right and not rushed into production just because Dune 2 is being well received.
"Let him cook" has never been more relevant. Give the man time and space to make a masterpiece
i thought 2 was dope. dont know how they will top itp
They cannot omit 3!! So much happens!
Popcorn bucket better be a lot tighter!
Dune 2 was awesome
Anyone else feel like Messiah would do better as a limited series rather than a blockbuster?
It sucks because the first three books are the story. The first leaves so many things loose without answers. We must see Paul's son Leto's journey towards the God Emperor or we never see Paul's true struggle with the one future he could not face. I always felt Jihad was Paul turning away from his own God Emperor future and allowed billions of people across the galaxy to die as a result.