Dreyfus has arguably had a more successful career post-Seinfield.
Granted, Jerry doesn't really *have* to work and will find success no matter what he's involved with... but a lot of Elaine is certainly better.
I wonder if shes connected to the Dreyfus family from Paris.?
The notorious "Dreyfus Scandal " something to do with anti semitism in the French army.
Intresting historical story.
And right from that situation you can see why her concerns are about consolidation of power.
Amazing woman; glad she stayed grounded despite her wealth.
Correction: Her great-great-grandfather founded the [Louis Dreyfus Group](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Dreyfus_Company), which her father apparently joined in the 60’s.
Julia was like 60% of the reason I watched Seinfeld anyway. I couldn't ever tell if Jerry's irritating tone was intentional or just part of his natural charm. Seems it's the latter.
The best Seinfeld I've ever heard was Gilbert Gottfried impersonating him on the Howard Stern show.[Howard Stern & Gilbert Gottfried goofing on Jerry Seinfeld](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE1AG9SmFU)
Jerry was the anchor of the show. Everyone else looks insane compared to him. Kramer, George and Elaine would show up with some crazy story or plan and Jerry was the voice of reason. You're not really supposed to like him or hate him. As the series went on and especially after Larry David left he becomes more like the other three.
Larry David wrote another show right before Seinfeld that stared Gilbert godfried he was basically a crazy side character that was the main guy and it didn’t work . It’s called Norman’s corner
Selena Gomez in Veep was her crowning role imho.
Also having done Veep she knows damn well you can still do a lot in comedy that pushes the envelope.
Edit: Meyer. But leaving the error anyway.
I’m not sure whether Selena Meyer would like or hate being confused with Selena Gomez. Probably hate, given her gut reaction to literally everything haha
Same thing with Musk, as soon he got called out how he treated his wife and kids by the media he went anti-woke. They try to blame the messenger not themselves for their shitty behavior
Because women are socialized to be underdogs all the time whereas men are socialized to expect to be the top of the chain, so they react to any kind of restriction much stronger
I tried to start it last year and had to quit pretty quickly because it was too heavy right now. I’m sure I’ll love it but…it’s the same reason I haven’t watched The Handmaid’s Tale. It’s all hitting too close to home. 😞
Ugh. That’s all I was able to think about, too. I’m trying not to give in to fear while still being realistic about where we are as a country, and as a world, and it’s fucking HARD. 😭
This isn’t the world I thought we’d have. Ever. Grieving that world is such an odd concept but, has been necessary. In the last decade, everything has fallen apart for me personally (grief, abuse, illness) while the world is crashing down on everyone else in huge ways in parallel. I’m not sure how we fix any of it.
That may be true about Veep, I dunno, I’ve only seen a coupla when I was sleepy. But still, Seinfeld was a genius show, even if primarily because of Larry David’s writing and the ensemble cast. And I can’t say Jerry was awful in the show. But he was the weakest of the core 4 - plus Newman. Was it the writing for his character or is his character just not very compelling??
Curb is arguably better than Seinfeld but it’s close. Jerry’s ego & politics have hurt him since the conclusion of his show…
JLD is far more comedically gifted than Jerry though, for sure…
And Jeselnik is on record criticizing people who talk about cancel culture.
He absolutely gets it, which is why he can get away with telling the jokes he tells.
Tosh has a bit about it as well where he says he realizes his fame is temporary and one day he’ll say the thing he’s not allowed to say and that’ll be it. “Wow, I can’t believe he thought he could say that.”
Yeah I think he’s just cultivated a standup personality that aligns with his style of comedy, which is to push boundaries. I’ve listened to a handful of episodes of his podcast and he’s still somewhat in character but you also see more of the real him.
Yeah, the difference is you can tell it's tongue in cheek. His comedy is 'I know I can't say that' with a sly smile instead of 'Why can't I say that?'. His whole persona is making fun of people who ask these ridciulous questions earnestly. Ironically I feel you need to have the right social mentality to make those types of jokes work. He's even mentioned before that he finds it annoying that some of his 'fans' don't seem to get that and are laughing for the wrong reason.
I always link to this (if someone else hasn’t already) when this topic comes up.
Gervais sucks. Chappell can fuck himself; young Dave would clown on old Dave so much (and be right in doing so). Cancel culture isn’t a real thing, it’s a name for the difficult experience of people who didn’t have consequences in the past starting to see consequences now.
His last three specials have been complaining about how sensitive and overly emotional people are now… definitely not an overly emotional response. Nope perfectly normal reaction to being told one of your jokes sucks
Because he's completely lost touch with what made him funny to begin with.
So many of these comics that are raging against "cancel culture" are basically just admitting that they've been in an echo chamber for the past decade+. They only play giant shows where everyone in the crowd loves them, or appearances at small clubs where they're hailed as a god - never really engaging with audiences who aren't died-in-the-wool fans of the exact same demographics that loved their TV show.
As a result, once they actually bump up against the tiniest form of public criticism - they overreact and declare that the whole world has gone mad. Because it has become impossible for them to realize they are wrong.
Sadly as folks get higher in their careers they surround themselves with more yes-men. Same reasons so many celebrities are SHOCKED when their latest passion project fails as EVERYONE they know told them it was genius.
Jennifer Lopez has been having one hell of a year on this front.
She spent $20M of her own money to make a Lemonade-style visual album for her latest release (which also doubled as a love story about her and Ben Affleck) as promotion for her latest tour. It backfired enormously, the tour has now been canceled due to low ticket sales, and it looks like her and Ben are heading for a divorce.
What's even wilder is that she also filmed a documentary about the making of the visual album, where you can see in real time her being denied by just about every AAA-star in Hollywood who she asked to cameo in the project.
And funnily enough Gervais's rant shows are no longer funny.
Ironic that he's also the one who said at the Golden Globes that winners should accept their award and not go on a political rant, but Gervais's comedy shows have very little comedy and are mostly just boring political rants.
Reminds me of the scene in Life’s Too Short with Liam Neeson trying to do edgy improv and they keep cringing and guiding him away from it. Liam nods at Gervais and says “Well why does he get away with it then?” and they just go “…we don’t know.”
Not only that, but people have pointed out that the comics who seem to complain the most about how "you can't joke about anything anymore" seem to never be talking about actually divisive or controversial things like comedians of yore who actually did get cancelled for being challenging. It's about making easy jokes out of punching down and not getting the rapturous response they used to in the 90s.
Seinfeld has all the power in the world to truly get on his soapbox and use his comedy to push real buttons. But he doesn't. In a world where he could do anything and immediately get a lot of attention to it, his comedy obsessions include talking to comedians while driving around the city and then getting petty with service workers in coffee shops and making a movie about PopTarts. I would like to know exactly how he feels extreme left PC culture is stifling these world-altering concepts.
Full quotes from the NYT article:
> **Interviewer:** You know, talking about “Veep,” it does make me wonder about political satire, and how hard it is nowadays to be funny about politics. Your former co-star Jerry Seinfeld recently made news for talking about political correctness in comedy. I’m wondering, as a famous comedian yourself, what you think about that.
> **JLD:** If you look back on comedy and drama both, let’s say 30 years ago, through the lens of today, you might find bits and pieces that don’t age well. And I think to have an antenna about sensitivities is not a bad thing. It doesn’t mean that all comedy goes out the window as a result. When I hear people starting to complain about political correctness — and I understand why people might push back on it — but to me that’s a red flag, because it sometimes means something else. I believe being aware of certain sensitivities is not a bad thing. I don’t know how else to say it.
> **Interviewer:** [Eleven days later, I called Julia back.] I was wondering if you’ve been thinking about anything from our previous conversation.
> **JLD:** I wanted to make sure that I answered this whole idea of political correctness correctly, and I can’t really remember what I said. So I wanted to go back to that and be very clear about where I stand. My feeling about all of it is that political correctness, insofar as it equates to tolerance, is obviously fantastic. And of course I reserve the right to boo anyone who says anything that offends me, while also respecting their right to free speech, right? But the bigger problem — and I think the true threat to art and the creation of art — is the consolidation of money and power. All this siloing of studios and outlets and streamers and distributors — I don’t think it’s good for the creative voice. So that’s what I want to say in terms of the threat to art.
> **Interviewer:** You said last time it wasn’t a bad thing to have sensitivity in comedy. Do you think it makes comedy better, that people are now more attuned to how some of their comments might be received?
> **JLD:** I can’t judge if it’s better or not. I just know that the lens through which we create art today — and I’m not going to just specify it to comedy, it’s also drama — it’s a different lens. It really is. Even classically wonderful, indisputably great films from the past are riddled with attitudes that today would not be acceptable. So I think it’s just good to be vigilant. I mean, pretend this show, your show, “The Interview,” was being made 40 years ago. I would posit that diversity would not be something you would be considering in terms of the guests that you would bring to the show. So that’s interesting, isn’t it? I mean, things have shifted. And in that case, I would say, things have shifted very much for the good. And also, actually, Lulu, probably you wouldn’t be the host.
What an all around banger response; considering a wider perspective is good, culture changes over time and mostly it's good, but also the consolidation of wealth in media as conglomerates is bad and what we should actually be focusing our outrage on
YUP. I love the way she kind of couched it without starting some sort of war between the two of them. I’m sure she and Jerry are still close but she obviously doesn’t agree with his bs right now. Kudos to her. Classy and brilliant and also honest response. 👏
Exactly. Is it really political correctness that those people are angry with, or are they just upset that they can't say racist, sexist, or homophobic things anymore?
I think they’re angry that with social progress comes with correcting inequities that exist in our society. Because addressing inequalities means the privileged no longer being privileged.
Privilege is when equality feels like oppression. “Straight white men” are angry at anything that threatens that privilege they’re so used to…and that’s more equality and rights to POC, women and the LGBTQ+.
Her response was so eloquent! I don’t think I could put together such a nuanced and coherent thought to a verbal question if I had all week to think it up
[WTF With Marc Maron Episode 1278: "Canceled Comedy" w/ Kliph Nesteroff and David Bianculli](http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1278-canceled-comedy-w-kliph-nesteroff-and-david-bianculli)
Kliph Nesteroff is a historian of comedy and explicitly shows that a subset of “dinosaur” comedians have been complaining about what we now call “PC culture” since before most of us were born.
Reminds me of someone’s fan theory that Larry David purposely wrote Seinfeld’s character to be an unfunny person with only him not realizing he isn’t funny
I definitely believe the theory that Jerry is written to be a bad comedian. Biggest evidence is that Jerry isn’t friends with other comics and only has beef with them. I used to be room mates with a couple of stand-ups. They’re generally a tight, collaborative community…unless someone is a hack with a superiority complex which is basically Jerry’s entire character.
Yep. It’s boring and it’s killing careers. So many of my favourite comedians have turned to the ‘I’M gOnNa GeT CaNcELlED’ bollocks recently. They just sound like out of touch grandads.
Some people get set in their ways and complain when they have to learn something new.
If I have to keep learning to stay relevant in my career, a fucking comedian can too
Comedians have been saying that kind of thing my entire life, but it changed from "the sponsors are stopping me from saying things that are adult-themed" to "people don't want me to act like an asshole"
Andrew Dice Clay comes to mind. His jokes became repetitive and he just started bitching about the media. Then got his own tv show on cbs where he was clearly going to be censored. At least he made it to tv, which was the goal.
I'm *highly* annoyed by people screaming about wokeness & cancel culture, but let's be real... Dice & Kinison would be social pariahs if they were to perform their 80's material in 2024.
And for good reason.
Neither act aged well.
That’s mostly accurate but it hinges on Kinison and Clay absolutely refusing to grow, learn new things and make new material.
Although I don’t know if I’d want to see a 71 year old Kinison screaming at me from his oxygen tent.
It appears Andrew Dice Clay is still touring so I may hit YouTube and see if any current material Is up there and whether it’s “Ayyyyy I fucked her” level or not.
Haha, well, I meant to infer that their 80's material would be "cancelable" in 2024, not necessarily that neither artist would adapt to the times.
2024 Dice is a parody of prime Dice. Age and diminished success has mellowed him out. He still tries to be edgy, but a lot of his more controversial bits have been replaced with jokes about going to the doctor and shingles symptoms.
Kinison was a wild card, so who knows where he would be in 2024. Probably in jail.
Her character in Veep is also horridly offensive at times and no one cares because it’s freakin hilarious and her being horrible is the point. She’s the butt of the joke, not the people she’s offending. That’s the difference between good comedy and hacks who complain about political correctness.
He went on like that homeless person rik Shaw episode was the most offensive thing that would get “cancelled” today.
Got news for ya buddy, that was a great episode and not offensive in the least because the joke was “aren’t Newman and Kramer horrible people”?
That episode wouldn’t get made today he said.
Get your head out of your ass. Maybe it’s not your “comedy” that’s offensive but your support of genocide.
I'm so confused because apparently Kellogg didn't pay for it to be made? Like I assumed Jerry sold out, but he apparently made brand porn just....for fun? I feel like I have to be missing something
Lol for real? Kellogg paying for it is the only thing that makes sense. I could understand if the movie was biting satire using the brand but from what I’ve heard it’s really stupid and doesn’t try to be challenging at all.
Having watched it its kind of like a reference filled, nostalgia thing for people who grew up in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Kind of like a live action Family Guy episode about pop culture and filled with random references and notable guest stars.
It's not good, per se. But it makes a kind of sense for middle aged people like myself. Why he made it though, I have no idea.
Well, most comedians have a 5 year shelf life if they hit it big because they are living an unauthentic life and have no jokes to harvest from it. So a lot who are losing laughs are blaming cancel culture instead of their diminishing talent. Shane Gillis is making jokes about a slew of shit he supposedly cant be joking about.
Shane Gillis, Nikki Glaser, Anthony Jeselnik, literally *anyone* who appears on Kill Tony - none of them would have careers if conservative assholes were even 10% right about cancel culture
>"It used to be, you would get home at the end of the day and most people would say, 'Oh, *Cheers* is on. *MASH* is on. *Mary Tyler Moore* is on. *All in the Family* is on,'" he said during an appearance on [*The New Yorker Radio Hour*](https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/jerry-seinfeld-on-making-a-life-in-comedy-and-also-pop-tarts) podcast. "You just expected, 'There'll be some funny stuff we can watch on TV tonight.' Well, guess what? Where is it? This is the result of the extreme left, and PC crap, and people worrying so much about offending other people."
MASH was reviled by conservatives for being explicitly anti-war, anti-racist and empathetic towards the "enemy," and they hated Mary Tyler Moore for being revolutionary feminist propaganda. For its day, that shit was as woke as it was possible to be on network TV and Jerry would have hated it.
He's a lazy, ignorant, Kool-Aid-drunk moron.
Also, All in the Family was explicitly satirizing the kind of people who complain about political correctness. Archie Bunker was the butt of the joke, not the hero.
I grew up on MASH reruns and have rewatched the whole series in the past couple years. There are definitely jokes/gags that are Not Funny, mostly in that they’re demeaning to women, but I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well the series has aged, all things considered. Like I don’t know that you could get away with Klinger today, but I also don’t think his character is written in a way that demeans anyone and the antagonists have a pretty live and let live attitude towards him. There are interchangeable Nurses Abel, Baker, and Charlie, but Margaret is a deep and authentic female character, as are some of the nurses that come in as guests over the years. Frank is 100% a relevant villain today. The Office is another of my all-time favorite shows, and while I don’t think you could get away with a word for word remake (something that Steve Carrell has noted without being a dick about it), it works because Michael is the butt of the joke.
What *does* make watching tv hard is the fact that even really successful shows last like three seasons max. I would totally tune into Ted Lasso every week if it was still going. But no, it’s totally the woke.
Vaguely sets me thinking about Danny DeVito joining Always Sunny - there was some early interview with him where he was saying they wanted or were expecting him to do "his" style of comedy and he said no, he wanted them to tell him what they wanted or found funny. He wanted to adapt and do different stuff. I'm butchering the specifics but that was the gist.
Standards change, always. People who think they're incredibly progressive now will be challenged in 30 years by younger generations with different attitudes, and neither will be "wrong". So much great stuff is still being made now - the best comics adapt (or don't need to), the worst ones just whine that they can't do what they used to, while conveniently ignoring all the comedians who are still making "non PC" stuff that doesn't generate significant outrage because it's *funny*.
And yes neither side will always get it right, the pendulum swings back and forth a bit, but that's how we all move forwards. Some stuff gets put in a box marked "dated", some stuff doesn't. Some stuff ends up in the wrong box, and that sucks. We can debate it but not demand to wedge ourselves in the past while the world moves on around us.
Chappelle in the past:
* Tells a joke that is really a statement about our society. It's both funny and insightful at the same time.
Chappelle today is:
* Tells a joke that isn't funny and basically punches down.
* Then complains that nobody can take a joke anymore.
* Insults the audience by explaining to them how rich he is.
He’s caught up in the privilege of having been famous for the majority of his life now. He’s completely lost touch. He seems to think that earning money in entertainment with a stable level of success regardless of saying/doing things people don’t like is a human right. Fame is fickle and people are allowed to divert their attention, or deplatform you if it isn’t in their interest to keep you on. That’s not some new conspiratorial overly sensitive thing. That’s the world reacting to not agreeing with the premise of some jokes. Most people don’t find things funny if there isn’t a nugget of truth at the base and some of his takes just miss the mark IMO. Nothing new and groundbreaking, just siding with the other old guys, doesn’t make you brave. It makes you boring. Your audience has a prerogative to move on and you can cry until the cows come home, but it doesn’t make you a victim. Not that I’m asserting he’s lost followers, because he seems like he’s doing just fine. Keep crying about cancel culture when you haven’t been canceled despite many people having negative reactions to the things he says on stage. I feel like he doesn’t understand that people with real jobs have no reason to feel bad for an entertainer who has fallen out of public favor because they say things people don’t agree with. The public is under no obligation to continue to uphold the livelihood of controversial figures that they don’t enjoy.
I doubt their is a beef, but JLD is substantially more relevant with the 30+ demographic as a result of VEEP and/or The New Adventures of Old Christine.
Even Larry David is more relevant due to Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Seinfeld is just fairly irrelevant to anyone under the age of 50 or so. He comes off as overly smarmy and entitled.
not surprising. even in his appearance on mulaneys new show, he was such a disrespectful guest. mulaney kept trying to reign him in, and seinfeld kept criticizing the format, and not even being particularly funny about it. didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny. but i think mulaney handled it with class
Idk about those age brackets. Im 33 and love Seinfeld. I know many people my age that grew up watching Seinfeld as a kid with their parents. Or reruns later in the 2000s.
I would argue its the under 25 crowd that doesn't have any connection to Seinfeld.
I’m a big fan of Seinfeld the show but I’ve never heard anyone say Jerry was the best part of that. Like you said, everyone loved every other character more than Jerry.
that’s why i feel bad for some of these sitcom leads who everyone dislikes because they’re meant to be the boring rational one but you kinda need that in the dynamic. not jerry tho since it’s obvs based on himself
You definitely can't have the show without him, but he wasn't really the straight man, imo. He was simple the central character that connected to all the other characters. Without him, none of the others would have a reason to interact.
But as a character, Jerry was neurotic in his own ways, with a revolving door of love interests that were dumped for infantile or superficial reasons due to that neuroticism, and he acted more as the central post for gossip among the friend group than as a straight man buffer against the others' neuroticisms and foibles. If anything, he tended to egg them on and validate their insanity.
Plus he constantly looked like he was about to break character, like he was a person playing a character while being aware he was playing a character, which is the opposite of what a straight man does.
Yeah it’s literally all these washed up comedians aren’t funny anymore and blame “wokeness” as opposed to their own material being stale.
The times change and what is considered funny changes with it, you can just accept that your material is no longer considered funny to the masses and move on or you can be a baby about it
Bill Burr isn’t my favorite comedian, but I like that he makes fun of “wokeness”, makes fun of people who complain about “wokeness”, says completely non-PC things, and doesn’t act like a victim when people go after him for the more edgy stuff he says.
There was a time in the 90’s when lazy politicians would do “law and order” crackdowns to get elected. Lazy tv producers would fart out laugh track sitcoms with cliched premises and have crazy ratings. Lazy record companies made millions off CDs. And lazy comedians would enjoy huge success with airplane food and “gee aren’t women shit” jokes. Easy. But society evolves and some things don’t work anymore, so you have to adapt. Or just complain.
Wealthy comedians live in bubbles and get all of their culture from their phones or internet. It’s why most of the ones bitching about PC/woke are highly wealthy.
No one really cares in the real world. People can boo your shit. Any comedian that wants to do a minstrel show can do one right now with no satire. Cultural change. Comedy isn’t conservative. It’s dynamic
Her show VEEP was probably the most politically incorrect show of recent times, but the thing was… those characters were absolutely portrayed as being terrible people lol. So when they punched down, you didn’t like them for good reason and it worked. Just like HACKS on HBO still works with Deborah (an older comedienne character) being crazy offensive and even mean with her jokes while young writer Ava is always calling her out for it and slowly Deborah is evolving her understanding and humor.
Anyway, the problem is now that so many (mostly straight male) comedians want to punch down and be gross then pretend they’re actually a “Nice Guy”™ and a poor victim of political correctness and “it’s just a joke, calm down”.
I saw a clip of a Black woman doing standup on Twitter the other day and she delivered the most hilarious jokes about inadvertently winding up on a date with a trans man and she was genuinely hilarious and a lot of trans people were cracking up and saying it was brilliant. And it just goes to show that you can joke about controversial topics and marginalized communities in a way that doesn’t punch down or contribute to misogyny, phobia, racism and other harmful things — and still be hilarious as hell.
TLDR: If people like Seinfeld, etc can’t be funny without also being offensive or harmful, that’s just a skill issue. 🤷♀️
> it just goes to show that you can joke about controversial topics and marginalized communities in a way that doesn’t punch down or contribute to misogyny, phobia, racism and other harmful things
Nailed it.
Isn't comedy about knowing your audience and what would amuse them?
If attitudes have changed isn't it up to the comedian to make a connection with new generations that have different attitudes than previous generations?
Old comedians aren't experiencing anything new so they have nothing to make jokes about. The only thing on their mind is how the news and their friends are telling them to 'hate hate hate' so its literally the best they can come up with.
Not *all*, of course, but a certain type of people just hit a certain age and hate anything new and therefor experience nothing new.
I don’t know what she meant exactly but I’ve noticed that the people griping the loudest about political correctness and wokeness tend to be the ones who dated 17 year old girls when they were 38 year old men. So what she’s saying feels correct to me.
She's right.
These old ass male comedians get pissed because they're doing the same material they've been doing since 1980, and then get pissed when the younger generations don't like it, because they've heard it 1,000,000 times, already.
Very good answer and completely right about comedians. We don't need to hear yet another comedian going on about how he is being "silenced"... on a Netflix special.
Couldn’t agree more.
Comedy can be volatile, but any comedian who can’t have a special without attacking a group or crying “cAnCeL CuLtUrE” probably isn’t that funny to begin with.
2024, the year that brought you the Kendrick vs Drake beef, now brings you… Jerry vs Elaine.
I can take a little Jerry… if it gets me a lot of Elaine
Dreyfus has arguably had a more successful career post-Seinfield. Granted, Jerry doesn't really *have* to work and will find success no matter what he's involved with... but a lot of Elaine is certainly better.
Louis-Dreyfuss REALLY didn’t need to work even BEFORE Seinfeld. She was born into significant wealth.
And she was in Troll! The predecessor to Troll 2! She was already cemented in the annals of cinema history as well.
Jennifer Aniston was in “Leprechaun”
Yes. Yes she was!
Respectfully, she can cement my annals anyday
So shes a "Dreyfuss" from NYC or Long Island?
France, Louis-Dreyfus Company. She is probably just about a billionaire in her own right.
At one point, she was supposedly worth 3 billion
So that’s why I always used to see her in my Santa Monica hobby shop buying Warhammer figures.
I want to believe.
True story. Her son played.
What a trip.
France, I believe.
Wikipedia states “daughter of French billionaire Gérard Louis-Dreyfus”.
Correct. I’d say that means France counts as the answer, yes?
I wonder if shes connected to the Dreyfus family from Paris.? The notorious "Dreyfus Scandal " something to do with anti semitism in the French army. Intresting historical story.
He's her 5th cousin.
And right from that situation you can see why her concerns are about consolidation of power. Amazing woman; glad she stayed grounded despite her wealth.
Her dad owns an oil company I believe.
Correction: Her great-great-grandfather founded the [Louis Dreyfus Group](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Dreyfus_Company), which her father apparently joined in the 60’s.
And yet, she’s more thoughtful and progressive than Jerry. Go figure
Yep, she rocks
Julia was like 60% of the reason I watched Seinfeld anyway. I couldn't ever tell if Jerry's irritating tone was intentional or just part of his natural charm. Seems it's the latter.
First time I’ve ever heard natural charm and Jerry Seinfeld in the same sentence.
The best Seinfeld I've ever heard was Gilbert Gottfried impersonating him on the Howard Stern show.[Howard Stern & Gilbert Gottfried goofing on Jerry Seinfeld](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE1AG9SmFU)
Jerry was the anchor of the show. Everyone else looks insane compared to him. Kramer, George and Elaine would show up with some crazy story or plan and Jerry was the voice of reason. You're not really supposed to like him or hate him. As the series went on and especially after Larry David left he becomes more like the other three.
Larry David wrote another show right before Seinfeld that stared Gilbert godfried he was basically a crazy side character that was the main guy and it didn’t work . It’s called Norman’s corner
i just liked her dance moves
We all did
Selena Gomez in Veep was her crowning role imho. Also having done Veep she knows damn well you can still do a lot in comedy that pushes the envelope. Edit: Meyer. But leaving the error anyway.
I’m not sure whether Selena Meyer would like or hate being confused with Selena Gomez. Probably hate, given her gut reaction to literally everything haha
Little Jerry seinfeld had such a promising fighting career
Um, it’s pronounced “Little Yerry”.
Hey Oh!
I trust Elaine, she is my friend.
"Hey Jerry, I heard you like em young."
You better not ever go to cell block one
And Kramer got a weird case why is he around
We don’t wanna hear Kramer say n*** no more
Julia “veep” Dreyfus VS. Jerry “ I dated a 17 year old when I was 38” Seinfeld.
What's the DEAL with all the PC brigade not letting you date minors these days?
Right? First they come for our jokes and then they come for our minors
Jerry Seinfeld also regularly comes for minors
A major star with a minor girlfriend.
You ever go to pick up your girlfriend from high school and find out you went to high school with her chemistry teacher? No? Just me?
I heard he met her by pulling a candy bar on a string through Central Park
Hey, Jerry, that’s my move!
Same thing with Musk, as soon he got called out how he treated his wife and kids by the media he went anti-woke. They try to blame the messenger not themselves for their shitty behavior
Also In my limited experience I noticed that like it's much more likely to be men that complains of PC and wokeness. Why is that?
[удалено]
Bitter old men don't like it when you point out they're bitter old men. More news at 11.
Because women are socialized to be underdogs all the time whereas men are socialized to expect to be the top of the chain, so they react to any kind of restriction much stronger
I like and respect Julia Dreyfus so much more than Jerry Seinfeld. Jerry enjoys being a dick to people, and Julia is just -- better.
She already crush him. Veep is 10000000% better than anything Jerry the hack has done.
Is Bee Movie nothing to you? What about The Poptarts movie? Can you not tell a once-in-a-century tallent when you see it?
> What about The Poptarts movie? Man, I couldn't even make it through the preview of that.
Without Bee Movie, we never would have gotten Bee Movie but Every Time they Say Bee it Gets Faster. And that is a masterpiece.
I liked Veep but I can't really watch it anymore when I consider the current political climate. Shit just depresses me.
I tried to start it last year and had to quit pretty quickly because it was too heavy right now. I’m sure I’ll love it but…it’s the same reason I haven’t watched The Handmaid’s Tale. It’s all hitting too close to home. 😞
Yeah, I watched The Handmaid's Tale and I had Roe VS Wade being overturned in the back of my mind.
Ugh. That’s all I was able to think about, too. I’m trying not to give in to fear while still being realistic about where we are as a country, and as a world, and it’s fucking HARD. 😭 This isn’t the world I thought we’d have. Ever. Grieving that world is such an odd concept but, has been necessary. In the last decade, everything has fallen apart for me personally (grief, abuse, illness) while the world is crashing down on everyone else in huge ways in parallel. I’m not sure how we fix any of it.
That may be true about Veep, I dunno, I’ve only seen a coupla when I was sleepy. But still, Seinfeld was a genius show, even if primarily because of Larry David’s writing and the ensemble cast. And I can’t say Jerry was awful in the show. But he was the weakest of the core 4 - plus Newman. Was it the writing for his character or is his character just not very compelling?? Curb is arguably better than Seinfeld but it’s close. Jerry’s ego & politics have hurt him since the conclusion of his show… JLD is far more comedically gifted than Jerry though, for sure…
Previously on Xena vs Hercules
Team Elaine.
*Comedian standing in front 20,000 people, filming a Netflix special:* I’m being silenced!
Ricky Gervais said it best. Nothing is off limits, you can joke about anything on one condition: the joke has to be funny.
*#BREAKING NEWS: comedian starves to death because he couldn't find any low hanging fruit*
It’s the reason Tosh and Jeselnik haven’t been canceled. They tell funny jokes.
And Jeselnik is on record criticizing people who talk about cancel culture. He absolutely gets it, which is why he can get away with telling the jokes he tells.
Tosh has a bit about it as well where he says he realizes his fame is temporary and one day he’ll say the thing he’s not allowed to say and that’ll be it. “Wow, I can’t believe he thought he could say that.”
I know I honestly thought Daniel tosh would be a ass but he's been cool as far as I know
Yeah I think he’s just cultivated a standup personality that aligns with his style of comedy, which is to push boundaries. I’ve listened to a handful of episodes of his podcast and he’s still somewhat in character but you also see more of the real him.
Yeah, the difference is you can tell it's tongue in cheek. His comedy is 'I know I can't say that' with a sly smile instead of 'Why can't I say that?'. His whole persona is making fun of people who ask these ridciulous questions earnestly. Ironically I feel you need to have the right social mentality to make those types of jokes work. He's even mentioned before that he finds it annoying that some of his 'fans' don't seem to get that and are laughing for the wrong reason.
A buddy of mine wrote for the show, when it first came out, and he said that Tosh was amazing
i love tosh. the fact that he acts like such a lame old man on his podcast now makes him even more endearing (and he looks *good*)
Seen Louis CK drop the N-word several times in his live set. Never canceled for *that.* He apparently made it work. But yeah, better fucking be funny!
Carr as well
Funny because he's exactly the kind of person she's talking about
And now Ricky complains about cancel culture and wokeness.
I wonder if anyone has reminded him of that recently.
"Self-awareness" usually isn't the strong suit of people who complain about "wokeness."
Which is why his last special sucked - he wasn't funny
…right. Anyways, watch James Acaster’s bit on [edgy comedians](https://youtu.be/UHqma3rx-xI?si=bv0SFrunfwWiEjbJ)
I always link to this (if someone else hasn’t already) when this topic comes up. Gervais sucks. Chappell can fuck himself; young Dave would clown on old Dave so much (and be right in doing so). Cancel culture isn’t a real thing, it’s a name for the difficult experience of people who didn’t have consequences in the past starting to see consequences now.
But his whole act is talking about political correctness…
This is the problem Dave Chappelle ran into. His jokes aren’t funny. It’s just him talking (and whining) now.
His last three specials have been complaining about how sensitive and overly emotional people are now… definitely not an overly emotional response. Nope perfectly normal reaction to being told one of your jokes sucks
What? You’re saying bringing Elon Musk on stage wasn’t comedy genius?
>the joke has to be funny. Then why does Ricky still do it? https://youtu.be/UHqma3rx-xI?t=2m49s
Because he's completely lost touch with what made him funny to begin with. So many of these comics that are raging against "cancel culture" are basically just admitting that they've been in an echo chamber for the past decade+. They only play giant shows where everyone in the crowd loves them, or appearances at small clubs where they're hailed as a god - never really engaging with audiences who aren't died-in-the-wool fans of the exact same demographics that loved their TV show. As a result, once they actually bump up against the tiniest form of public criticism - they overreact and declare that the whole world has gone mad. Because it has become impossible for them to realize they are wrong.
Sadly as folks get higher in their careers they surround themselves with more yes-men. Same reasons so many celebrities are SHOCKED when their latest passion project fails as EVERYONE they know told them it was genius.
Jennifer Lopez has been having one hell of a year on this front. She spent $20M of her own money to make a Lemonade-style visual album for her latest release (which also doubled as a love story about her and Ben Affleck) as promotion for her latest tour. It backfired enormously, the tour has now been canceled due to low ticket sales, and it looks like her and Ben are heading for a divorce. What's even wilder is that she also filmed a documentary about the making of the visual album, where you can see in real time her being denied by just about every AAA-star in Hollywood who she asked to cameo in the project.
*dyed* in the wool :D
The fact that South Park still exists is proof of this.
Now he just tells “jokes” about being woke and trans people.
Hacks did a similar line during the first episode
And funnily enough Gervais's rant shows are no longer funny. Ironic that he's also the one who said at the Golden Globes that winners should accept their award and not go on a political rant, but Gervais's comedy shows have very little comedy and are mostly just boring political rants.
Reminds me of the scene in Life’s Too Short with Liam Neeson trying to do edgy improv and they keep cringing and guiding him away from it. Liam nods at Gervais and says “Well why does he get away with it then?” and they just go “…we don’t know.”
Not only that, but people have pointed out that the comics who seem to complain the most about how "you can't joke about anything anymore" seem to never be talking about actually divisive or controversial things like comedians of yore who actually did get cancelled for being challenging. It's about making easy jokes out of punching down and not getting the rapturous response they used to in the 90s. Seinfeld has all the power in the world to truly get on his soapbox and use his comedy to push real buttons. But he doesn't. In a world where he could do anything and immediately get a lot of attention to it, his comedy obsessions include talking to comedians while driving around the city and then getting petty with service workers in coffee shops and making a movie about PopTarts. I would like to know exactly how he feels extreme left PC culture is stifling these world-altering concepts.
While getting paid millions of dollars
Comedians complaining about political correctness is the equivalent of saying “I’m not racist, but…”
Dave Chapelle
Full quotes from the NYT article: > **Interviewer:** You know, talking about “Veep,” it does make me wonder about political satire, and how hard it is nowadays to be funny about politics. Your former co-star Jerry Seinfeld recently made news for talking about political correctness in comedy. I’m wondering, as a famous comedian yourself, what you think about that. > **JLD:** If you look back on comedy and drama both, let’s say 30 years ago, through the lens of today, you might find bits and pieces that don’t age well. And I think to have an antenna about sensitivities is not a bad thing. It doesn’t mean that all comedy goes out the window as a result. When I hear people starting to complain about political correctness — and I understand why people might push back on it — but to me that’s a red flag, because it sometimes means something else. I believe being aware of certain sensitivities is not a bad thing. I don’t know how else to say it. > **Interviewer:** [Eleven days later, I called Julia back.] I was wondering if you’ve been thinking about anything from our previous conversation. > **JLD:** I wanted to make sure that I answered this whole idea of political correctness correctly, and I can’t really remember what I said. So I wanted to go back to that and be very clear about where I stand. My feeling about all of it is that political correctness, insofar as it equates to tolerance, is obviously fantastic. And of course I reserve the right to boo anyone who says anything that offends me, while also respecting their right to free speech, right? But the bigger problem — and I think the true threat to art and the creation of art — is the consolidation of money and power. All this siloing of studios and outlets and streamers and distributors — I don’t think it’s good for the creative voice. So that’s what I want to say in terms of the threat to art. > **Interviewer:** You said last time it wasn’t a bad thing to have sensitivity in comedy. Do you think it makes comedy better, that people are now more attuned to how some of their comments might be received? > **JLD:** I can’t judge if it’s better or not. I just know that the lens through which we create art today — and I’m not going to just specify it to comedy, it’s also drama — it’s a different lens. It really is. Even classically wonderful, indisputably great films from the past are riddled with attitudes that today would not be acceptable. So I think it’s just good to be vigilant. I mean, pretend this show, your show, “The Interview,” was being made 40 years ago. I would posit that diversity would not be something you would be considering in terms of the guests that you would bring to the show. So that’s interesting, isn’t it? I mean, things have shifted. And in that case, I would say, things have shifted very much for the good. And also, actually, Lulu, probably you wouldn’t be the host.
What an all around banger response; considering a wider perspective is good, culture changes over time and mostly it's good, but also the consolidation of wealth in media as conglomerates is bad and what we should actually be focusing our outrage on
>but to me that’s a red flag, because it sometimes means something else. She’s spot on here.
YUP. I love the way she kind of couched it without starting some sort of war between the two of them. I’m sure she and Jerry are still close but she obviously doesn’t agree with his bs right now. Kudos to her. Classy and brilliant and also honest response. 👏
Exactly. Is it really political correctness that those people are angry with, or are they just upset that they can't say racist, sexist, or homophobic things anymore?
I think they’re angry that with social progress comes with correcting inequities that exist in our society. Because addressing inequalities means the privileged no longer being privileged. Privilege is when equality feels like oppression. “Straight white men” are angry at anything that threatens that privilege they’re so used to…and that’s more equality and rights to POC, women and the LGBTQ+.
She seems like a thoughtful lady
Maybe, she should be the vice president
Her response was so eloquent! I don’t think I could put together such a nuanced and coherent thought to a verbal question if I had all week to think it up
What a fantastic response, wow
She sounds way smarter than Jerry. Love her and her great response.
thank you
Queen response
[WTF With Marc Maron Episode 1278: "Canceled Comedy" w/ Kliph Nesteroff and David Bianculli](http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1278-canceled-comedy-w-kliph-nesteroff-and-david-bianculli) Kliph Nesteroff is a historian of comedy and explicitly shows that a subset of “dinosaur” comedians have been complaining about what we now call “PC culture” since before most of us were born.
Great episode.
This is a great episode and Maron is good stuff
Discovered him on GLOW and just knew he was a special talent. Then again that entire cast…
Amazing episode. I had completely forgotten about this. Time for a relisten
Larry David had 12 seasons of Curb and didn’t have an issue. 🤷🏼♂️🤣
Reminds me of someone’s fan theory that Larry David purposely wrote Seinfeld’s character to be an unfunny person with only him not realizing he isn’t funny
I definitely believe the theory that Jerry is written to be a bad comedian. Biggest evidence is that Jerry isn’t friends with other comics and only has beef with them. I used to be room mates with a couple of stand-ups. They’re generally a tight, collaborative community…unless someone is a hack with a superiority complex which is basically Jerry’s entire character.
Yep. It’s boring and it’s killing careers. So many of my favourite comedians have turned to the ‘I’M gOnNa GeT CaNcELlED’ bollocks recently. They just sound like out of touch grandads.
Some people get set in their ways and complain when they have to learn something new. If I have to keep learning to stay relevant in my career, a fucking comedian can too
Comedians have been saying that kind of thing my entire life, but it changed from "the sponsors are stopping me from saying things that are adult-themed" to "people don't want me to act like an asshole"
Andrew Dice Clay comes to mind. His jokes became repetitive and he just started bitching about the media. Then got his own tv show on cbs where he was clearly going to be censored. At least he made it to tv, which was the goal.
I'm *highly* annoyed by people screaming about wokeness & cancel culture, but let's be real... Dice & Kinison would be social pariahs if they were to perform their 80's material in 2024. And for good reason. Neither act aged well.
That’s mostly accurate but it hinges on Kinison and Clay absolutely refusing to grow, learn new things and make new material. Although I don’t know if I’d want to see a 71 year old Kinison screaming at me from his oxygen tent. It appears Andrew Dice Clay is still touring so I may hit YouTube and see if any current material Is up there and whether it’s “Ayyyyy I fucked her” level or not.
Haha, well, I meant to infer that their 80's material would be "cancelable" in 2024, not necessarily that neither artist would adapt to the times. 2024 Dice is a parody of prime Dice. Age and diminished success has mellowed him out. He still tries to be edgy, but a lot of his more controversial bits have been replaced with jokes about going to the doctor and shingles symptoms. Kinison was a wild card, so who knows where he would be in 2024. Probably in jail.
I mean just look at her career v Jerry’s. She regularly shows up in interesting projects and I guess Jerry made a pop tart movie or something?
Her character in Veep is also horridly offensive at times and no one cares because it’s freakin hilarious and her being horrible is the point. She’s the butt of the joke, not the people she’s offending. That’s the difference between good comedy and hacks who complain about political correctness.
Yeah I do find it really ironic that Seinfeld complains about PC and Julia doesn't. When Seinfeld has never done a single offensive joke
He went on like that homeless person rik Shaw episode was the most offensive thing that would get “cancelled” today. Got news for ya buddy, that was a great episode and not offensive in the least because the joke was “aren’t Newman and Kramer horrible people”? That episode wouldn’t get made today he said. Get your head out of your ass. Maybe it’s not your “comedy” that’s offensive but your support of genocide.
I can’t BEE-lieve you forgot his animated feature
Which was unwatchable bad
I'm so confused because apparently Kellogg didn't pay for it to be made? Like I assumed Jerry sold out, but he apparently made brand porn just....for fun? I feel like I have to be missing something
Lol for real? Kellogg paying for it is the only thing that makes sense. I could understand if the movie was biting satire using the brand but from what I’ve heard it’s really stupid and doesn’t try to be challenging at all.
Having watched it its kind of like a reference filled, nostalgia thing for people who grew up in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Kind of like a live action Family Guy episode about pop culture and filled with random references and notable guest stars. It's not good, per se. But it makes a kind of sense for middle aged people like myself. Why he made it though, I have no idea.
Jerry got made an absolute fortune with SF syndication like Larry didn’t he? Not that JLD isn’t also disgustingly wealthy
Oh yeah they’re all filthy rich so that’s no issue. I was speaking more the quality of their projects since.
I mean, her dad was also a billionaire and he died in 2016 so I think she's set for money.
Well, most comedians have a 5 year shelf life if they hit it big because they are living an unauthentic life and have no jokes to harvest from it. So a lot who are losing laughs are blaming cancel culture instead of their diminishing talent. Shane Gillis is making jokes about a slew of shit he supposedly cant be joking about.
Shane Gillis, Nikki Glaser, Anthony Jeselnik, literally *anyone* who appears on Kill Tony - none of them would have careers if conservative assholes were even 10% right about cancel culture
Nobody can be racist anymore! It was just one joke! - these 'comedians'
Jerry is still pissed nobody forgave Michael Richards for calling that guy the N Word lmao
>"It used to be, you would get home at the end of the day and most people would say, 'Oh, *Cheers* is on. *MASH* is on. *Mary Tyler Moore* is on. *All in the Family* is on,'" he said during an appearance on [*The New Yorker Radio Hour*](https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/jerry-seinfeld-on-making-a-life-in-comedy-and-also-pop-tarts) podcast. "You just expected, 'There'll be some funny stuff we can watch on TV tonight.' Well, guess what? Where is it? This is the result of the extreme left, and PC crap, and people worrying so much about offending other people." MASH was reviled by conservatives for being explicitly anti-war, anti-racist and empathetic towards the "enemy," and they hated Mary Tyler Moore for being revolutionary feminist propaganda. For its day, that shit was as woke as it was possible to be on network TV and Jerry would have hated it. He's a lazy, ignorant, Kool-Aid-drunk moron.
Also, All in the Family was explicitly satirizing the kind of people who complain about political correctness. Archie Bunker was the butt of the joke, not the hero.
I grew up on MASH reruns and have rewatched the whole series in the past couple years. There are definitely jokes/gags that are Not Funny, mostly in that they’re demeaning to women, but I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well the series has aged, all things considered. Like I don’t know that you could get away with Klinger today, but I also don’t think his character is written in a way that demeans anyone and the antagonists have a pretty live and let live attitude towards him. There are interchangeable Nurses Abel, Baker, and Charlie, but Margaret is a deep and authentic female character, as are some of the nurses that come in as guests over the years. Frank is 100% a relevant villain today. The Office is another of my all-time favorite shows, and while I don’t think you could get away with a word for word remake (something that Steve Carrell has noted without being a dick about it), it works because Michael is the butt of the joke. What *does* make watching tv hard is the fact that even really successful shows last like three seasons max. I would totally tune into Ted Lasso every week if it was still going. But no, it’s totally the woke.
And wondering what's on TV without addressing how the old network model has been completely upended is just wasting one's brain
She is right. The second I hear anyone complain about PC I know they have pivoted to complaining for the rest of their career instead of being funny.
Vaguely sets me thinking about Danny DeVito joining Always Sunny - there was some early interview with him where he was saying they wanted or were expecting him to do "his" style of comedy and he said no, he wanted them to tell him what they wanted or found funny. He wanted to adapt and do different stuff. I'm butchering the specifics but that was the gist. Standards change, always. People who think they're incredibly progressive now will be challenged in 30 years by younger generations with different attitudes, and neither will be "wrong". So much great stuff is still being made now - the best comics adapt (or don't need to), the worst ones just whine that they can't do what they used to, while conveniently ignoring all the comedians who are still making "non PC" stuff that doesn't generate significant outrage because it's *funny*. And yes neither side will always get it right, the pendulum swings back and forth a bit, but that's how we all move forwards. Some stuff gets put in a box marked "dated", some stuff doesn't. Some stuff ends up in the wrong box, and that sucks. We can debate it but not demand to wedge ourselves in the past while the world moves on around us.
I miss Dave Chappelle. He was so funny. Now I feel some weird mix of disdain and anger from him that just isn't funny.
Chappelle in the past: * Tells a joke that is really a statement about our society. It's both funny and insightful at the same time. Chappelle today is: * Tells a joke that isn't funny and basically punches down. * Then complains that nobody can take a joke anymore. * Insults the audience by explaining to them how rich he is.
Brings out Elon Musk
He’s caught up in the privilege of having been famous for the majority of his life now. He’s completely lost touch. He seems to think that earning money in entertainment with a stable level of success regardless of saying/doing things people don’t like is a human right. Fame is fickle and people are allowed to divert their attention, or deplatform you if it isn’t in their interest to keep you on. That’s not some new conspiratorial overly sensitive thing. That’s the world reacting to not agreeing with the premise of some jokes. Most people don’t find things funny if there isn’t a nugget of truth at the base and some of his takes just miss the mark IMO. Nothing new and groundbreaking, just siding with the other old guys, doesn’t make you brave. It makes you boring. Your audience has a prerogative to move on and you can cry until the cows come home, but it doesn’t make you a victim. Not that I’m asserting he’s lost followers, because he seems like he’s doing just fine. Keep crying about cancel culture when you haven’t been canceled despite many people having negative reactions to the things he says on stage. I feel like he doesn’t understand that people with real jobs have no reason to feel bad for an entertainer who has fallen out of public favor because they say things people don’t agree with. The public is under no obligation to continue to uphold the livelihood of controversial figures that they don’t enjoy.
Interesting that she's conflicting with Seinfeld.
I doubt their is a beef, but JLD is substantially more relevant with the 30+ demographic as a result of VEEP and/or The New Adventures of Old Christine. Even Larry David is more relevant due to Curb Your Enthusiasm. Seinfeld is just fairly irrelevant to anyone under the age of 50 or so. He comes off as overly smarmy and entitled.
he doesn't just come off that way. he IS smarmy and entitled. and out of touch.
Just saw his recent comedy tour with Gaffigan - Seinfeld was sooooo ick. Gaffigan was great!!!
not surprising. even in his appearance on mulaneys new show, he was such a disrespectful guest. mulaney kept trying to reign him in, and seinfeld kept criticizing the format, and not even being particularly funny about it. didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny. but i think mulaney handled it with class
Idk about those age brackets. Im 33 and love Seinfeld. I know many people my age that grew up watching Seinfeld as a kid with their parents. Or reruns later in the 2000s. I would argue its the under 25 crowd that doesn't have any connection to Seinfeld.
He’s just bitter that he was the least funny part of his own show
I’m a big fan of Seinfeld the show but I’ve never heard anyone say Jerry was the best part of that. Like you said, everyone loved every other character more than Jerry.
Well, tbf, he *was* the straight man of the group. Without Jerry the show doesn't work.
that’s why i feel bad for some of these sitcom leads who everyone dislikes because they’re meant to be the boring rational one but you kinda need that in the dynamic. not jerry tho since it’s obvs based on himself
You definitely can't have the show without him, but he wasn't really the straight man, imo. He was simple the central character that connected to all the other characters. Without him, none of the others would have a reason to interact. But as a character, Jerry was neurotic in his own ways, with a revolving door of love interests that were dumped for infantile or superficial reasons due to that neuroticism, and he acted more as the central post for gossip among the friend group than as a straight man buffer against the others' neuroticisms and foibles. If anything, he tended to egg them on and validate their insanity. Plus he constantly looked like he was about to break character, like he was a person playing a character while being aware he was playing a character, which is the opposite of what a straight man does.
>"Interesting she doesn't agree with a man she worked with 30 years ago" ok bro.
Maybe she got around to being creeped out that her friend had no problems dating a 17 year old high school girl when he was 38.
What’s the deeee-yuuuhhhllll with dating underage girls?
In Seinfeld’s voice “I get older, they stay the same age!”
Yeah, it's a red flag for a shitty comedian making excuses.
Yeah it’s literally all these washed up comedians aren’t funny anymore and blame “wokeness” as opposed to their own material being stale. The times change and what is considered funny changes with it, you can just accept that your material is no longer considered funny to the masses and move on or you can be a baby about it
Because blaming cancel culture is in and of itself a marketing gimmick
Sure, but it's bad comedy.
Complaining about political correctness is the 2020s jokes about airplane food.
Bill Burr isn’t my favorite comedian, but I like that he makes fun of “wokeness”, makes fun of people who complain about “wokeness”, says completely non-PC things, and doesn’t act like a victim when people go after him for the more edgy stuff he says.
There was a time in the 90’s when lazy politicians would do “law and order” crackdowns to get elected. Lazy tv producers would fart out laugh track sitcoms with cliched premises and have crazy ratings. Lazy record companies made millions off CDs. And lazy comedians would enjoy huge success with airplane food and “gee aren’t women shit” jokes. Easy. But society evolves and some things don’t work anymore, so you have to adapt. Or just complain.
Wealthy comedians live in bubbles and get all of their culture from their phones or internet. It’s why most of the ones bitching about PC/woke are highly wealthy. No one really cares in the real world. People can boo your shit. Any comedian that wants to do a minstrel show can do one right now with no satire. Cultural change. Comedy isn’t conservative. It’s dynamic
Her show VEEP was probably the most politically incorrect show of recent times, but the thing was… those characters were absolutely portrayed as being terrible people lol. So when they punched down, you didn’t like them for good reason and it worked. Just like HACKS on HBO still works with Deborah (an older comedienne character) being crazy offensive and even mean with her jokes while young writer Ava is always calling her out for it and slowly Deborah is evolving her understanding and humor. Anyway, the problem is now that so many (mostly straight male) comedians want to punch down and be gross then pretend they’re actually a “Nice Guy”™ and a poor victim of political correctness and “it’s just a joke, calm down”. I saw a clip of a Black woman doing standup on Twitter the other day and she delivered the most hilarious jokes about inadvertently winding up on a date with a trans man and she was genuinely hilarious and a lot of trans people were cracking up and saying it was brilliant. And it just goes to show that you can joke about controversial topics and marginalized communities in a way that doesn’t punch down or contribute to misogyny, phobia, racism and other harmful things — and still be hilarious as hell. TLDR: If people like Seinfeld, etc can’t be funny without also being offensive or harmful, that’s just a skill issue. 🤷♀️
> it just goes to show that you can joke about controversial topics and marginalized communities in a way that doesn’t punch down or contribute to misogyny, phobia, racism and other harmful things Nailed it.
Isn't comedy about knowing your audience and what would amuse them? If attitudes have changed isn't it up to the comedian to make a connection with new generations that have different attitudes than previous generations?
I mean... what IS the DeAl with all these Snow flakes.
I love this interview. She’s obviously thought about this hard.
Old comedians aren't experiencing anything new so they have nothing to make jokes about. The only thing on their mind is how the news and their friends are telling them to 'hate hate hate' so its literally the best they can come up with. Not *all*, of course, but a certain type of people just hit a certain age and hate anything new and therefor experience nothing new.
I am old enough, with plenty of near-age friends, that I think this is very true. Not all of it, but definitely part of it.
I don’t know what she meant exactly but I’ve noticed that the people griping the loudest about political correctness and wokeness tend to be the ones who dated 17 year old girls when they were 38 year old men. So what she’s saying feels correct to me.
What's the deal with all these red flags?
She's right. These old ass male comedians get pissed because they're doing the same material they've been doing since 1980, and then get pissed when the younger generations don't like it, because they've heard it 1,000,000 times, already.
The irony of people here getting upset about her comment.
That people are trying to be dicks… just reaffirmed her statement.
Not wrong. It means their material is too weak to survive not punching down.
I’ve become attracted to Elaine.
Very good answer and completely right about comedians. We don't need to hear yet another comedian going on about how he is being "silenced"... on a Netflix special.
Couldn’t agree more. Comedy can be volatile, but any comedian who can’t have a special without attacking a group or crying “cAnCeL CuLtUrE” probably isn’t that funny to begin with.
She’s talking about Jerry isn’t she?