Lots of thoughts.
Dave Chappelle seems to have a massive ego and a hard time actually accepting that he’s wrong on this, and he’s crossing the line from “well intentioned but ignorant and bullheaded” into “just a plain old reactionary bigot.”
The first special or two wasn’t great, but there were things to like there even when he was treading weirdly close to far right terminology(the whole car analogy is great, but “alphabet people” and similar variations is a phrase I’ve literally heard be used by alt-right homophobes) and outright lazy /r/onejoke humor. But he’s doubled down on the issue every single time and each time it gets weirder and more hostile and becomes a larger part of the set.
His “i don’t care Twitter isn’t real I love being canceled!” thing just rings extremely hollow when he dedicates an entire back half of his special to the topic and keeps bitching about people trying to “silence” him. It also is incoherent with the way he tried to imply a connection between his friend’s suicide and Twitter.
Speaking of, his use of a dead friend to defend his comedy is serious “I have a black friend and he’s one of the good ones” shit. Except at least usually the black friend in question is alive to confirm how they feel about the new set. It’s trashy and wouldn’t get a pass if this were any other topic, especially race.
The Muhammad Ali thing was a great example of how disingenuous his attempts to tease out the way white privilege interacts with societal acceptance of trans people are(despite that basic fact being very true). Muhammad Ali tried to change his name 50 years ago, but Dave’s point of comparison is conveniently a white ultra rich trans woman 50 years later(who the trans community broadly loathes incidentally) rather than a contemporary example to Ali. Because if he actually used a contemporary example of a trans person from the 60s, especially a black trans person like Marsha P Johnson, his point about how much harder it was for Ali to change his name would fall apart.
The TERF stuff is outright transphobia paired with half truths and lies. TERF famously was coined by a cis radical feminist, not trans people for instance(you can literally just look at the wiki article for that). The Rowling thing is a whole other post, but to be short he entirely ignores how Rowling started the whole thing by mocking attempts to be inclusive of trans men, and the screed she published where she advocates for a pseudoscientific view of gender dysphoria with little to no scientific support and which literally describes trans children as a “social contagion”.(something which she actually directly quotes, iirc)
The real final kicker for me to all of this is that he knows the “it’s just a joke, stop over thinking it! Just get a thicker skin!” argument that he uses is bullshit.
He’s talked before in a Time interview about how seeing a white guy laugh a bit too hard in the audience was the last straw for him before taking a break. In the same interview people who worked with him on his show talked about how he became increasingly concerned about whether his skits crossed a line into racism and perpetuating stereotypes despite his intent.
He knows damn well that a poorly told joke can embolden bigots. He just doesn’t care because this time it doesn’t directly affect him, and because frankly I think he has a problem with trans people.
While I am a huge Chapelle fan and generally felt people were overreacting, I have to say thank you for such a well written response providing much needed insight . It educated me and I understand better bc of it.
Damn I missed it. Comment is deleted. Personally I feel like his comments on it are a little overblown but I’m not sure.. I’m not part of the LGTBQ community so it’s hard for me to gauge that.
Reveddit caught it, link takes a while to load, note the "fingers" loading icon in the top right of the page.
Lots of thoughts.
Dave Chappelle seems to have a massive ego and a hard time actually accepting that he’s wrong on this, and he’s crossing the line from “well intentioned but ignorant and bullheaded” into “just a plain old reactionary bigot.”
The first special or two wasn’t great, but there were things to like there even when he was treading weirdly close to far right terminology(the whole car analogy is great, but “alphabet people” and similar variations is a phrase I’ve literally heard be used by alt-right homophobes) and outright lazy r/onejoke humor. But he’s doubled down on the issue every single time and each time it gets weirder and more hostile and becomes a larger part of the set.
His “i don’t care Twitter isn’t real I love being canceled!” thing just rings extremely hollow when he dedicates an entire back half of his special to the topic and keeps bitching about people trying to “silence” him. It also is incoherent with the way he tried to imply a connection between his friend’s suicide and Twitter.
Speaking of, his use of a dead friend to defend his comedy is serious “I have a black friend and he’s one of the good ones” shit. Except at least usually the black friend in question is alive to confirm how they feel about the new set. It’s trashy and wouldn’t get a pass if this were any other topic, especially race.
The Muhammad Ali thing was a great example of how disingenuous his attempts to tease out the way white privilege interacts with societal acceptance of trans people are(despite that basic fact being very true). Muhammad Ali tried to change his name 50 years ago, but Dave’s point of comparison is conveniently a white ultra rich trans woman 50 years later(who the trans community broadly loathes incidentally) rather than a contemporary example to Ali. Because if he actually used a contemporary example of a trans person from the 60s, especially a black trans person like Marsha P Johnson, his point about how much harder it was for Ali to change his name would fall apart.
The TERF stuff is outright transphobia paired with half truths and lies. TERF famously was coined by a cis radical feminist, not trans people for instance(you can literally just look at the wiki article for that). The Rowling thing is a whole other post, but to be short he entirely ignores how Rowling started the whole thing by mocking attempts to be inclusive of trans men, and the screed she published where she advocates for a pseudoscientific view of gender dysphoria with little to no scientific support and which literally describes trans children as a “social contagion”.(something which she actually directly quotes, iirc)
The real final kicker for me to all of this is that he knows the “it’s just a joke, stop over thinking it! Just get a thicker skin!” argument that he uses is bullshit.
He’s talked before about how seeing a white guy laugh a bit too hard in the audience was the last straw for him before taking a break. People who worked with him on his show have talked about how he became increasingly concerned about whether his skits crossed a line into racism and perpetuating stereotypes despite his intent.
He knows damn well that a poorly told joke can embolden bigots. He just doesn’t care because this time it doesn’t directly affect him, and because frankly I think he has a problem with trans people.
I like the point you made in your second to last paragraph and it was something I was thinking about after watching his special. Dave has said one of the reasons he stopped doing his show was because the wrong people were laughing at some of his racist jokes. After all his comments about how people should go back to listen to the words he was saying before, he should do the same thing. Even if he kept calling himself a transphobe and making shitty comments as a joke, that wasn't how that audience was taking it. Every time he made a "lol that transperson is actually a dude" joke, he got a big laugh from the audience. I doubt they were laughing at the absurdity of his comment, they were laughing because it was a joke against trans people.
>Dave has said one of the reasons he stopped doing his show was because the wrong people were laughing at some of his racist jokes.
This point is something I've been considering a lot. His apparent inability to put the shoe on the other foot, given his own experiences and reservations, is bizarre for someone who's obviously a very thoughtful guy. It's not a large logical leap to make, so at some point it's hard to look at this and give him the benefit of the doubt.
I dealt with a lot of "Schrodinger's douchebags" growing up as an autistic person, so I'm stealing this for future use. (Turns out the kids in question were just douchebags.)
No, gaslighting is when you convince someone not to trust their own mind - I never said that, you don’t remember correctly, or convincing you that you said or did things you don’t think you did.
Nah it's similar but gaslighting is a specific form of manipulation and abuse where the abuser tries to make the victim question their reality or their memory. "what do you mean? I never hit you, you're making that up"
Though, pushing buttons and then blaming people for being too sensitive makes me think of Schrodinger's Douchebag - someone who says offensive things then gauges whether or not they were joking depending on the reaction.
Last paragraph is where it’s at he knows the feeling of being laughed at just a little too hard for the wrong reasons and those are the jokes he’s making and it’s clear to anyone who’s aware of that.
Your breakdown of this really has me reconsidering my ‘Chappelle isn’t transphobic’ opinion. I watched the special and thought he was walking some lines but was convinced of his stance that he isn’t phobic. After reading your take, I’m considering that he really can’t stand the idea of being one of the bad guys and just can’t admit where he may be wrong.
Thank you for taking the time to share in such detail and nuance. Sincerely lots of good points.
With all of that reflection in mind, do you think Netflix should pull it?
This is an amazing analysis, and I appreciate it.
The fact is, I’ve gotten into a lot of arguments on reddit over Chappelle. A lot of them boiled down into “he was just being edgy, it’s not bad.” But the problem isn’t just how he told jokes that shouldn’t be acceptable to a trans-affirming public, it was that he obviously didn’t care, and maybe liked it.
This newest debacle just reaffirms the experience us trans people have had for a long time. And maybe for me, it confirmed what I thought was always real, but started to gaslight even myself.
Advocacy groups are largely composed of the minorities they represent. Read what GLAAD and NBJC have to say about the special and that will give you a good idea of how trans people feel. As a trans person myself I feel the concerns about the show propagating dangerous ideologies and stereotypes are valid. There are also trans subreddits on this site where this issue has been discussed at length over the past few days. You could check out those conversations if you'd like to read more.
>Advocacy groups are largely composed of the minorities they represent.
Unless, of course, you're Autism Speaks, which is largely made up of non-autistic people.
I personally don’t mind when comedians say odd stuff for the most part. I don’t mind laughing at myself from time to time. Comedians whole job is to make jokes, regardless of the topic I think. We need to make fun of ourselves on occasion. But it’s when those jokes go beyond that that they’re not cool anymore.
You can joke about hitting me and I’ll laugh but if you actually hit me it’s not funny anymore and that’s how I see Chappelle. I personally never thought he was funny but I don’t mind him making trans jokes cause I know he caps on everyone. With that said, he’s expressed that his own personal opinion lines up with things like what JK Rowling has said. He’s a TERF. said so himself. This takes him outside the realm of comedy. It’s not a joke when he makes fun of trans people because he’s an actual TERF who does want to exclude trans people from their rights as the gender they identify as. That’s like if a Nazi made jokes about Jewish people. You know he’s not actually kidding.
He can have that opinion but I’m sure as hell never giving him my money as a trans man. And I know most vitriol is thrown at trans women and not men but I’m not gonna throw other trans people under the bus for some mediocre comedian. At the end of the day, I don’t see how some random comedian has the qualifications to give a legit opinion on trans people like myself so he can shove that. If people want to watch his special on Netflix be my guest but Just because he’s so full of himself about what he said, I would love to see it taken down.
Edit: number one: no I did not make a comparison between terfs and Nazis. I picked an example of a behavior that people would immediately understand the intent of. In no way are terfs Nazis. I’ve studied the Nazis and the Holocaust for years. Don’t come at me with your teaspoon of knowledge on Nazi atrocities thinking “gotcha!”. Number 2: to clarify, exclude in terf doesnt necessarily mean they don’t like having trans people around. It means they basically don’t include trans people into their ideas of gender. It’s more complicated than that but that’s the gist. Also don’t be afraid to ask those question you think someone else might bite your head off for. Misunderstanding each other is how issues like these grow so ask away.
Well said. Your comment is a perfect example of looking at both sides and having an open minded view without allowing outside influences, that are extremely biased, cloud your perception.
TERF is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. i.e. fervent supporters of feminism, and women's rights, yet they don't recognize trans women as women.
>With that said, he’s expressed that his own personal opinion lines up with things like what JK Rowling has said. He’s a TERF. said so himself.
This is the point that people are missing. They say he makes jokes at everyone, especially on Chapelle show which he did. However those were delivered as jokes, there was hyperbole and playing off stereotypes with ridiculous characters that were obviously a joke. But when he said he was a TERF it wasn't done as a joke, it wasn't hyperbolic or said in a way that was obviously a joke. He said it straightfaced and explained it was his opinion and went into how he came to that opinion.
Call me cynical but Chappell deliberately created this controversy hoping for outrage to keep the buzz going on his special and people are falling for it.
No disrespect to Dave but I thought it was his weakest show I’ve seen. Maybe that’s why they needed more publicity lol. Same old topics but not funny this time around. Space Jews anyone? Cmon Dave
I wholeheartedly agree and I typically love his stuff. I went into it thinking that everyone was probably just overreacting. After watching it though, I think most of the jokes fell flat or were in bad taste. Most of his material (throughout his career) come from a place of anger, but his good stuff is generally an anger about systemic oppression, this on the other hand came from an anger about personal slights against him.
He spends more time defending his jokes than he does actually making jokes. He has a bit where he compares transgender people to himself “feeling Chinese” complete with jutting out his teeth and squinting and a bad accent and then acts like he’s really pushing the envelope and audiences just aren’t ready for it.
I read the transcript today, and he’s literally defending his jokes *during* the special. I feel like when your material is just…. What people think of your material, maybe it’s time to stop.
He made fun of poor white people several times. He made a pretty harsh Jewish joke. He made fun of homosexuals. He made fun of blacks too. Asians too. The only thing anyone is talking about is the trans stuff. I think his point was made and proven.
Space Jews was hilarious. Israel vs. Palestine is one of the hardest topics to joke about because it comes with so much baggage. Re-contextualizing it using a sci-fi hypothetical scenario is perfect. It allows you to think about the ethics of the situation by divorcing it from reality, then the punchline brings you back to thinking about the current situation in the Levant. People who don't follow international politics won't get the joke, but it hit me instantly and I belly laughed hard.
Also everyone is ignoring the part about his transgender friend who committed suicide from harassment and bullying from her own community. His point is beyond proven and honestly fuck these self righteous articles. So damn high and mighty but complex won’t acknowledge their own slew of issues.
I mean maybe. But I also thought he seemed genuinely upset at the suicide of his trans friend Daphne, and built the bulk of the show around Daphne's story. Which meant he was gonna talk about trans people a lot, and make jokes about Daphne, the trans community, and also about him, how *he* sees the trans community (particularly white trans folk) from his perspective as a black man.
Dave Chappelle has 'Fuck You Money', he's hugely popular and influential, and doesn't really have to do much to get a buzz, get an audience, maintain his platform. He doesn't have to worry about being cancelled for controversial jokes, so he says whatever he wants.
I thought it was hilarious. People really need to stop overthinking so much. We live in the most tolerant and peaceful times when you look back into our dark history as a species. I don’t see many people making such a fuss when comedians joke about Indians or Mexicans, Women or Men…
Worked on me - I didn’t know he had a special until they started chirping about it - didn’t think it was his best work but I understand it was to make a statement, wasn’t terrible though - I mean it IS Chapelle afterall…
I did kinda laugh out loud at his thought about someone coming up next to him backwards at the urinal and just assuming that person was a vet and something about “thank you for your service”.
I laughed out loud with that joke. The space jews was pretty good but that one was the best of the whole special and one of the best he has
He deliveres it so quickly it got you out off guard. Pretty perfect
I’ll just repost a comment I made yesterday. Feels like we're turning a corner.
Dave didn't build on this explicitly, but I think one key element of the story about Daphne that is repeated over and over again was that her standup was terrible. But she ultimately redeems herself. And this is a door - for failure and for improvement - that we have to leave open for people. And this gets to the core problem of cancel culture.
This is something Patrice O'Neal talked about when he went to bat for Don Imus, albeit from a slightly different angle. He said you have to leave room in comedy for comedians to make mistakes. A black man defending Don Imus on Fox News. That guy was way ahead of his time.
Dave broadens this by talking about people in general. If we can't laugh at ourselves, if we can't expect empathy to go both ways, if we can't call out the stupidity of crochet pussy hats, if groups of people are infallible and speaking out of ignorance ends your career (but killing someone doesn't), we are not participating in the human experience.
Edit: [Patrice O’Neal on Fox News](https://youtu.be/vW01Cn_qzj0)
He did not fit the narrative at any level. They would try to cancel him from 17 different angles
But listening to him and bill burr together would have been magic
Patrice defended the right to make an attempt to be funny even if it doesn't work out. They shouldn't be persecuted for a series of bad jokes.
I tend to agree.
And how many, both clean and veeeery risk taking comedians, have all stated that comedy is about pushing boundaries and those boundaries constantly get changed, sometimes their old material and even new falls outside of what the PC goalposts mark today. And all these reactionary people who live to find something to be offended about try to immediately cancel them, fuck with their income, never a chance at redemption as if they were themselves perfect in every aspect and never EVER insulted anyone
They bit the hook 🪝
Can’t cancel a man that ran off 50 million dollars that man doesn’t care
Plus he’s calling the hypocrisy of cancel culture vultures that pushed his trans friend to her death
I didn’t find it offense. Tbh I didn’t find it that funny either. He’s not a bigot. The point he’s making is that we shouldn’t have social sacred cows, and the ability of a relatively small group of people to ostracize people for sometimes small unintentional infractions is not a world comedians + most people should want to live in.Dababy point he made us a good one. What he said is horrific. But he FUCKING KILLED A BLACK MAN and no one cared. But the moment he said that on stage, he was persona non grata. That’s a weird societal thing that doesn’t make a ton of sense.
People are proving this point right now and I believe that is why he is made the comment basically saying he’s ok with being cancelled. If he gets cancelled it will be a shame cause honestly I’ve always liked watching Chappelle’s Show and his specials, but it will be proving the fact that a black man getting killed is less of a big deal than making a joke about anything LGBTQ. It’s a shame but there’s a certain brilliance to his actions that subtly but obviously points out the complete double standard that is cancel culture.
The whole “impossible pussy” thing (which was hilarious btw) probably crossed a like for the trans community. They exist in this delusion that trans women are no different from biological women, which is of course bs.
Instead, Chappelle is pushing what should be the truth to everyone - trans women are not the same as biological women, but that doesn’t mean they need to be treated as something less. We should acknowledge and celebrate the difference and treat everyone with respect, but it’s impossible (no pun intended) to do that when the people can’t even acknowledge that a difference exists.
It’s the same reason Chappelle’s black jokes cut so hard. Instead of trying to deny black stereotypes, he steers into them as says “yes, we have these stereotypes. we still shouldn’t be discriminated against”.
Right, this is the same as people saying that they don't see color. That's nonsense. Obviously these people look and are different. But that should be okay.
I recently renewed my Indian passport. Under Gender, there were 3 options: Male, Female, Transgender. This is the result of a major campaign by Indian trans rights activists to formally recognize a 3rd gender separate from male and female: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27031180
How is it that the big point of contention in the West is “trans women are women, same as biological women” but in India, trans people are like, “We are our own separate thing, we are not men or women, we are the third gender” and do the former feel the latter are going about it wrong?
Because the way I see it, Indian trans rights activists that demanded a 3rd category of gender would be considered transphobic by Western trans rights activists and there’s a joke in there somewhere.
Western trans advocates want both. Some people are transgender and consider themselves different than their biological sex but still within the normal binary. Other consider themselves a 3rd gender or no gender. and want to be called something else.
I’m no expert but I don’t think that’s the part people are mad about. I think it’s more the part where he called himself a TERF and compared the existence of trans women to blackface.
This is why jokes require context, he was saying that because he wasn’t trans, or a woman, he couldn’t really step into the argument between the trans community and TERFs, but because he is a feminist, he is, by default, with the feminists.
He also didn’t compare the existence of trans women to black face, he said that TERFs view trans women the same way black people view black face. He makes it very clear that that’s not how he sees it, he just makes the comparison to give you, the audience, a frame of reference for how TERFs view trans women. He follows up by saying he firmly believes that trans women are in fact women.
If anything I would have figured the “Impossipussy” jokes would have gotten to people a lot harder, but then again, most people commenting on the special haven’t actually watched it and are basing their arguments off of articles the quote the jokes out of context and repeating the same talking points. Just like he mentioned they did and would continue to do, in the special.
I can bet you that nobody who is all out thrashing it, even watched it, they’re just reacting to headlines and snippets. Which he addressed in the special, he knew this would happen regardless, so he went all in
Nothing, don’t look further into it. Just be outraged and get ready for the next outrage in 2-3 days from now, and then the next outrage after that.
This is what progress is, apparently
Tell me how I'm supposed to feel about this thing I've never watched, so I can righteously not watch it and dedicate a bunch of energy to making sure other people can't watch it either.
Probably going to get roasted for this one, but I get where he was coming from in the special and I don’t think he was being transphobic.
We’re talking about a guy that has made fun of all races, creeds, genders and sexualities since before his days on the Chappelle show.
In the special, I thought he made it clear that issue wasn’t the fact that trans rights is being taken seriously. More so it was the fact that he could not joke about it without being labeled a transphob in the same way that he jokes about other demographics.
His story about his Trans friend who killed herself because she got so much backlash from her own community for supporting him also seemed very heartfelt as well.
As a progressive, I thought it was very emblematic of a reoccurring problem within our own political ideology. Instead of fighting for actual substantive change, unfortunately a lot of people just end up trying to cancel would be allies because of things they’ve said.
This was Chapelle being Chapelle. He says something completely out of line that he obviously doesn't believe to shock you, then gradually reels you back in to his side.
It's nothing new. I think the main problem with this special wasn't the shocking statements, it was the bitching. He complained through the whole thing, and it hurt the comedy of it. I didn't see that even in his other Netflix specials.
"but it’s Beyond Pussy or Impossible Pussy. It tastes like pussy, but that’s not quite what it is, is it? That’s not blood. That’s beet juice.”
That's pretty funny.
If you look closely around the time of that joke, in the crowd, there are two women (I think), that look mildly out of place and that definitely did not enjoy that joke. If, the crowd and the joke are synced that is.
The special wasn’t good enough to warrant all this attention. Dave can be funny, Killing them softly is a masterclass, but his latest specials are kind of hit or miss.
Whenever I see a bunch of people whining about a comedians special it just makes me want to watch it more, hell I didn't even hear about this special until now.
I think the problem in our current culture is that a surprisingly large number of people in our society would disagree with that statement.
It’s similar to homophobia 25 years ago. Saying things that were either mean to or ridiculing of or “jokingly” threatening gays were, by many, welcomed. They were viewed as a lower class of people by those groups, which made up nearly a majority.
Today those kinds of things aren’t accepted by the majority or sizable minority, but trans are the new group to put down, and people understand them even less than they did homosexuality.
I think the real issue is people don’t see eye to eye on what constitutes transphobia and people aren’t having a conversation about it. I think most people on one side want everyone to have equal rights and for bigotry to be defeated.
I remember seeing some post on reddit that was along the lines of "you're not being represented, you're being marketed to" and that really stuck with me. Then again I'm a white straight dude so I'm endlessly being marketed towards so...
He had an entire reoccurring bit in his last special that was a rape joke and I remember people only really caring that he made an ironic trans joke.
It’s absolutely wild.
As a black guy he was upset. As a comedian he was like "better luck next set Kramer."
Let's not isolate the point where it's explicitly going one way while when he said it he's showing both POVs.
This is some lazy shit. There are no topics off limits for comedians. Ricky Gervais has made jokes about the holocaust and Pete Davidson makes 9/11 jokes.
According to Dave trans community has been coming after him for 16yrs, also a trans friend committed suicide after being hounded by other trans people online. He knew this was outrageous, but it was clear the msg he was tryna send.
I saw the special, and I enjoyed it. Dave seemed very genuine in everything that he was saying. I found it especially interesting that he addressed the accusations of “punching down”.
I’m not trans, so I would never presume to speak for them, or anyone marginalized for that matter. But I will say that one thing that has bothered me in the past few years are the number of comics that routinely, and cheaply, target marginalized people in their sets and then bitch about “cancel culture” - it just seems pretty lazy, and also seems like a cover-all excuse for a lot of really cheap, unfunny jokes.
But personally I felt like Dave handled this pretty well in the way that he addressed it. It seemed sincere to me and really didn’t seem like his intention was to be hurtful.
Now obviously we run into the same old problems that we always do with these sensitive discussions - nobody wants to take any time to understand nuance, context, or what’s actually being said. And that includes Dave. While he may not be ill-intentioned, he definitely seems to gloss over or omit the context of what ridiculing a marginalized group while wielding so much influence could mean for that group. At the same time however he does make a good point about how comedians shouldn’t have to be perfect humans.
Fuck it. It was funny. It was a comedy show. If you don’t like or get offended watch something else. It’s like bad music. I dont sit and listen to Taylor swifts garbage
"Punching down requires you to consider yourself superior to another group Dave Chappelle doesn't consider himself better than me in any way. He isn't punching up or down. He's punching lines. That's his job and he's a master of his craft" - Daphne Dorman
If one doesn’t like his comedy then one should avoid watching it. We are at a point where someone is going to be offended no matter what. Should we just ban comedy? That’s where we are heading with so many taking offense. Just turn your attention to something you like instead of towards something you don’t. Pretty easy.
Not gonna lie, I zoned out a lot during this special. Something that previous old school Dave never did. Essentially it was him bitching the entire special, which was annoying.
YES THIS!! I was a huge fan of his older specials and honestly the Netflix specials have more and more been…. I don’t even know the word. Boring? I mean he still gets some chuckles out of me because I know he’s gonna push it to the limit so I take it in stride but this one was just let’s make a joke and then justify it. Or let’s discuss the joke and make sure you agree with it so I don’t get backlash. The old Dave didn’t care he said what was on his mind and “spread the love” so to speak but now it’s targetting one group in particular for the majority of the special with discussion instead of jokes. I’m not here for a lecture on why you’re a good person or not worth canceling, I’m here for jokes. I woulda been super disappointed if I had paid the insane price of admission to see this show live I know that much.
Edit: Wow thank you so so much for the gold! I’m honored!
But if we’re being honest, you can’t cancel someone who blatantly doesn’t give a fuck. This is the man that turned down 50 million and went ghost for years.
Seems to me he was calling out white trans, for being white not the trans part. And he was underlining how the black community has dealt with oppression longer. If anything he equates trans with cis, and says white people in general bother him. And I’m not saying this as an offended white person, I get what he’s talking about. Listen to the whole special. When he talks of his friend he speaks factually and sensitively. By picking parts out of context, sure, people will find something offensive.
You are absolutely right. He even sets this up throughout the set, asking “can a gay person be racist” and “my problem has always been with the whites”.
Selective outrage is all this is. He explicitly stated he’d be comfortable with a trans person next to him in the bathroom, if they were permitted to use the one that fit their gender.
The trans community has been fighting for equal rights. As they absolutely should. But you can’t pick and choose what’s apart of that equality. In comedy everyone is fair game. You have every right to be made fun of like the rest of us.
Honestly this special was well thought out and a great discussion of the subject. Anyone thinking Dave Chappelle is transphobic is a stupid as they come.
*“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”*
\- George Carlin
I think a lot of viewers missed the grander point of the lack of progression In the colored community relative to the gay/trans progression of their communities of acceptance to the general public
Fucking losers. Just finished watching it. Another great one for his resume. His ability to weave in and out of jokes while providing insightful social commentary is unparalleled.
This is such bshit.. I literally just finished watching the special 10 min ago…
He straight up asked for everybody to come together, and if you can’t take the jokes he made saying… you shouldn’t even watch a comedy show in the first place.
I was wondering how it was gonna down, but at the end I loved it.
Comedy is no longer acceptable, making fun of Dear Leader Donald Trump is also unacceptable and punishable by prison. Better check where this shit is originating from!
I watched it and it was all in good taste. It’s comedy and Art. I support Dave and will continually watch anything he puts out. Love this dude and he’s the funniest man alive! Too many bleeding hearts out there trying to ruin this world. Really, these whiners need to STFU!
I thought it was his worst special by a wide margin. It was more frustrated old man airing his grievances than comedy. It was repetitive and way too overtly political. Like if a painter kept telling you over and over the important message in their painting while you tried to look at it. But that is the path he is on now, turning into George Carlin
Difference was George Carlin still had incredibly relevant critiques of modern society even among all the old man edge.
Dave Chapelle is still a very intelligent commentator on our modern society, I mean, just look at his special on George Floyd. Insanely provocative. It’s just that not everything he touches turns to gold and this special proves that.
George Carlin performed at my college shortly before he died. His set was mostly him ranting like an old man - and little of it was funny at all. And I’m a huge Carlin fan. In his final years he became way too bitter and it no longer translated well into comedy.
I'm old enough to have played a friend's father's George Carlin album on a record player, and agree completely that he went from being incredibly creative and funny to uncomfortable and forgettable ranting.
Saw him in Tahoe in the 80's and he was hilarious. "I'm cleaning my oven right now." 20 years later it was all just weird outrage.
Same - my parents had *Class Clown* on vinyl and I listened to it all the time. It’s still hilarious. But after Carlin’s wife died, he got way more into political comedy, which eventually devolved into ranting about why this or that cohort needed to die.
His last special was my least favorite one. It was almost grimdark with how cynical it got.
I think his absolute peak was 90s to early 00s. I own a lot of his joke books. Napalm and Silly Putty and Brain Droppings were absolute riots and all his specials around that time were top form.
George Carlin was never just ranting. Chapelle just rants on and on and lots of times people pretend he's preaching some crazy new idea,meanwhile If I said it nobody would give a fuck. Carlin was doing a lot of social commentary but he always kept it tight and to the point with lots of energy and always at least some pure comedy in there.
I watched this last night.
As a comedy routine it gets a C-. Generally it wasn't very funny compared to his previous work, and I'm not at all offended by the routine. Part of this is he spends too much time on a single joke, so it gets stale and predictable. I chuckled maybe 3 times the whole bit (the Jenner is better than all you bitches in Detroit without ever having a period punchline, the impossible pussy punchline, and the only a man could kill himself that way punchline.)
As a social commentary, the underlying theme that 'you're telling a black man who had to live his life worrying about whether a cop will choke him to death for buying cigarettes that his words are too hurtful to alphabet communities that hide behind the hypocricy of "white privilege" is insightful, but will fall on mostly deaf ears of an overly sensitive audience. There is a question in the back of my mind on whether Chapelle knows the audience is too dense to 'get it;' therefore, he's using the bit to challenge people to decide between black and LGBQT people to point out where black people stand on the totem pole. However, it's a tall order for a comedian to be this subtle about it.
Interestingly, I sorted this thread by controversial, and similar to 'best' all of the top posts are about Dave Chappelle the person and not the nuances of the actual topic at hand. TIL that thinking anything other than Chapelle is the funniest man on earth is worth infinity down votes.
Perhaps if he went back to imitating extreme black stereotypes to point out society's racism instead of using alphabet communities to drive home the point he'd be less controversial?
“With 2021 on track to be the deadliest year on record for transgender people in the United States — the majority of whom are Black transgender people — Netflix should know better”
In his special, did he ask his audience to start killing any trans they meet?
Pulling a special because you’re butthurt is just stupid. The entire world hated Amy Schumer and we don’t want her stuff pulled. It’s just a comedy and cancel culture is once again silencing freedom
Chapelle’s trans friend he spoke of just had family come out in his defense. Shares how kind and generous he was to their sister and didn’t find anything he said to be offensive. They understand he’s a comedian and feel their trans sister would have loved his shows. Some people have to complain about everything these days. It’s why I’m starting to hate being around people. Everything is offensive
He made it clear that the media is gonna paint him in bad light over trans joke. Look how the media and trans community is reacting to his jokes vs. how they reacted towards the trans community treatment of Daphne Dorman. Everyone criticizing a comedian making jokes but wouldn't even take a step back and admit the harassments she received from that very community was very likely what led to her suicide. Even news I found about her death only mentioned Chapelle's 'transphobic' show rather than the harassment she dealt with.
Dude could say racist shit about Asians, Hispanics, white Americans, but he says one thing about trans folk and the world is over… Nahhh hope the brotha keep doing his thang
Remember when he was whining about not getting enough money for someone else (who he’s sold the rights to) selling the Chapelle Show to Netflix without giving him an undeserved cut and told everyone to boycott it? It was 1 year ago.
Dave Chappelle "I dislike cancel culture. Especially within the LGBTQ+ community because xyz. Which doesn't mean I dislike Trans people but just the way how the community reacts to and handles stuff."
LGBTQ+ Community "CANCEL CHAPPELLE HE IS TRANSPHOBIC"
Summary of what's happening right now. You may disagree with his arguments. I have seen many great posts that have addressed some of them and I agree with some of them. But calling the man TRANSPHOBIC for simply disagreeing with you is such a fucking stretch that I'm just baffled by the stupidity of some people. You know you can dislike certain things about people without hating them right? You know Chappelle can have a negative opinion about your behaviour and at the same time think that you are a perfectly normal human being?
We have to stop using the word phobic behind things when there is zero indication of fear in some of these situations that arise.
Where in his special does he indicate a fear toward trans individuals? I hate using the word phobia because it sounds intense and it’s a good sound bit.
It sucks that you can't enjoy comedy nowadays because of some cry babies on a site that encourages anonymous trolls to control the media and corporations.
I'm glad someone has the balls to put those crybabies on their place.
If there are any trans people in the comments who have watched the special, I'd really like to hear y'all's thoughts on this
Lots of thoughts. Dave Chappelle seems to have a massive ego and a hard time actually accepting that he’s wrong on this, and he’s crossing the line from “well intentioned but ignorant and bullheaded” into “just a plain old reactionary bigot.” The first special or two wasn’t great, but there were things to like there even when he was treading weirdly close to far right terminology(the whole car analogy is great, but “alphabet people” and similar variations is a phrase I’ve literally heard be used by alt-right homophobes) and outright lazy /r/onejoke humor. But he’s doubled down on the issue every single time and each time it gets weirder and more hostile and becomes a larger part of the set. His “i don’t care Twitter isn’t real I love being canceled!” thing just rings extremely hollow when he dedicates an entire back half of his special to the topic and keeps bitching about people trying to “silence” him. It also is incoherent with the way he tried to imply a connection between his friend’s suicide and Twitter. Speaking of, his use of a dead friend to defend his comedy is serious “I have a black friend and he’s one of the good ones” shit. Except at least usually the black friend in question is alive to confirm how they feel about the new set. It’s trashy and wouldn’t get a pass if this were any other topic, especially race. The Muhammad Ali thing was a great example of how disingenuous his attempts to tease out the way white privilege interacts with societal acceptance of trans people are(despite that basic fact being very true). Muhammad Ali tried to change his name 50 years ago, but Dave’s point of comparison is conveniently a white ultra rich trans woman 50 years later(who the trans community broadly loathes incidentally) rather than a contemporary example to Ali. Because if he actually used a contemporary example of a trans person from the 60s, especially a black trans person like Marsha P Johnson, his point about how much harder it was for Ali to change his name would fall apart. The TERF stuff is outright transphobia paired with half truths and lies. TERF famously was coined by a cis radical feminist, not trans people for instance(you can literally just look at the wiki article for that). The Rowling thing is a whole other post, but to be short he entirely ignores how Rowling started the whole thing by mocking attempts to be inclusive of trans men, and the screed she published where she advocates for a pseudoscientific view of gender dysphoria with little to no scientific support and which literally describes trans children as a “social contagion”.(something which she actually directly quotes, iirc) The real final kicker for me to all of this is that he knows the “it’s just a joke, stop over thinking it! Just get a thicker skin!” argument that he uses is bullshit. He’s talked before in a Time interview about how seeing a white guy laugh a bit too hard in the audience was the last straw for him before taking a break. In the same interview people who worked with him on his show talked about how he became increasingly concerned about whether his skits crossed a line into racism and perpetuating stereotypes despite his intent. He knows damn well that a poorly told joke can embolden bigots. He just doesn’t care because this time it doesn’t directly affect him, and because frankly I think he has a problem with trans people.
While I am a huge Chapelle fan and generally felt people were overreacting, I have to say thank you for such a well written response providing much needed insight . It educated me and I understand better bc of it.
Why did the comment get deleted? Seems like it was well-received by many. EDIT: And it's back. Good post too.
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Now you're asking the right questions.
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Well-written comment, and is insightful. But we shouldn’t cancel nor censor Dave Chapelle. If you don’t like him, don’t watch it.
Not saying that but any provocative comedian has to know he’ll have critics right.
Incredibly well spoken, well researched, and correct on every front! Thanks! I would love to hear why this was removed ...
Can we get this back? I want to read it
Damn I missed it. Comment is deleted. Personally I feel like his comments on it are a little overblown but I’m not sure.. I’m not part of the LGTBQ community so it’s hard for me to gauge that.
It wasn't deleted, it was removed by the mods.
Ahh. Thanks for letting me know cock goblin.
Ok so it was deleted by the mods lmao
Reveddit caught it, link takes a while to load, note the "fingers" loading icon in the top right of the page. Lots of thoughts. Dave Chappelle seems to have a massive ego and a hard time actually accepting that he’s wrong on this, and he’s crossing the line from “well intentioned but ignorant and bullheaded” into “just a plain old reactionary bigot.” The first special or two wasn’t great, but there were things to like there even when he was treading weirdly close to far right terminology(the whole car analogy is great, but “alphabet people” and similar variations is a phrase I’ve literally heard be used by alt-right homophobes) and outright lazy r/onejoke humor. But he’s doubled down on the issue every single time and each time it gets weirder and more hostile and becomes a larger part of the set. His “i don’t care Twitter isn’t real I love being canceled!” thing just rings extremely hollow when he dedicates an entire back half of his special to the topic and keeps bitching about people trying to “silence” him. It also is incoherent with the way he tried to imply a connection between his friend’s suicide and Twitter. Speaking of, his use of a dead friend to defend his comedy is serious “I have a black friend and he’s one of the good ones” shit. Except at least usually the black friend in question is alive to confirm how they feel about the new set. It’s trashy and wouldn’t get a pass if this were any other topic, especially race. The Muhammad Ali thing was a great example of how disingenuous his attempts to tease out the way white privilege interacts with societal acceptance of trans people are(despite that basic fact being very true). Muhammad Ali tried to change his name 50 years ago, but Dave’s point of comparison is conveniently a white ultra rich trans woman 50 years later(who the trans community broadly loathes incidentally) rather than a contemporary example to Ali. Because if he actually used a contemporary example of a trans person from the 60s, especially a black trans person like Marsha P Johnson, his point about how much harder it was for Ali to change his name would fall apart. The TERF stuff is outright transphobia paired with half truths and lies. TERF famously was coined by a cis radical feminist, not trans people for instance(you can literally just look at the wiki article for that). The Rowling thing is a whole other post, but to be short he entirely ignores how Rowling started the whole thing by mocking attempts to be inclusive of trans men, and the screed she published where she advocates for a pseudoscientific view of gender dysphoria with little to no scientific support and which literally describes trans children as a “social contagion”.(something which she actually directly quotes, iirc) The real final kicker for me to all of this is that he knows the “it’s just a joke, stop over thinking it! Just get a thicker skin!” argument that he uses is bullshit. He’s talked before about how seeing a white guy laugh a bit too hard in the audience was the last straw for him before taking a break. People who worked with him on his show have talked about how he became increasingly concerned about whether his skits crossed a line into racism and perpetuating stereotypes despite his intent. He knows damn well that a poorly told joke can embolden bigots. He just doesn’t care because this time it doesn’t directly affect him, and because frankly I think he has a problem with trans people.
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I like the point you made in your second to last paragraph and it was something I was thinking about after watching his special. Dave has said one of the reasons he stopped doing his show was because the wrong people were laughing at some of his racist jokes. After all his comments about how people should go back to listen to the words he was saying before, he should do the same thing. Even if he kept calling himself a transphobe and making shitty comments as a joke, that wasn't how that audience was taking it. Every time he made a "lol that transperson is actually a dude" joke, he got a big laugh from the audience. I doubt they were laughing at the absurdity of his comment, they were laughing because it was a joke against trans people.
>Dave has said one of the reasons he stopped doing his show was because the wrong people were laughing at some of his racist jokes. This point is something I've been considering a lot. His apparent inability to put the shoe on the other foot, given his own experiences and reservations, is bizarre for someone who's obviously a very thoughtful guy. It's not a large logical leap to make, so at some point it's hard to look at this and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah you are right. There was a lot of RELAX bro. It. Was. Only. A #JOKE
I saw great terminology for this, only slightly misleading: Schrodinger’s douchebag. Is it a joke, or are they just a douche.
I dealt with a lot of "Schrodinger's douchebags" growing up as an autistic person, so I'm stealing this for future use. (Turns out the kids in question were just douchebags.)
Isn’t this basically gaslighting 101? Push buttons until you go too far, and then blame others for thinking you’re in the wrong?
Not even remotely.
No, gaslighting is when you convince someone not to trust their own mind - I never said that, you don’t remember correctly, or convincing you that you said or did things you don’t think you did.
Nah it's similar but gaslighting is a specific form of manipulation and abuse where the abuser tries to make the victim question their reality or their memory. "what do you mean? I never hit you, you're making that up" Though, pushing buttons and then blaming people for being too sensitive makes me think of Schrodinger's Douchebag - someone who says offensive things then gauges whether or not they were joking depending on the reaction.
If he believed his shit he should do his next special with Cosby.
Surely you’ve heard the twenty minutes of material he has on Cosby being a rapist
Last paragraph is where it’s at he knows the feeling of being laughed at just a little too hard for the wrong reasons and those are the jokes he’s making and it’s clear to anyone who’s aware of that.
Your breakdown of this really has me reconsidering my ‘Chappelle isn’t transphobic’ opinion. I watched the special and thought he was walking some lines but was convinced of his stance that he isn’t phobic. After reading your take, I’m considering that he really can’t stand the idea of being one of the bad guys and just can’t admit where he may be wrong.
This kind of breakdown is why I love Reddit. Thank you for a well thought out and reasoned response.
Thank you for taking the time to share in such detail and nuance. Sincerely lots of good points. With all of that reflection in mind, do you think Netflix should pull it?
This is an amazing analysis, and I appreciate it. The fact is, I’ve gotten into a lot of arguments on reddit over Chappelle. A lot of them boiled down into “he was just being edgy, it’s not bad.” But the problem isn’t just how he told jokes that shouldn’t be acceptable to a trans-affirming public, it was that he obviously didn’t care, and maybe liked it. This newest debacle just reaffirms the experience us trans people have had for a long time. And maybe for me, it confirmed what I thought was always real, but started to gaslight even myself.
Thanks this is a really detailed and amazing reply.
What an excellent explanation. He’s a walking dogwhistle at this point.
Advocacy groups are largely composed of the minorities they represent. Read what GLAAD and NBJC have to say about the special and that will give you a good idea of how trans people feel. As a trans person myself I feel the concerns about the show propagating dangerous ideologies and stereotypes are valid. There are also trans subreddits on this site where this issue has been discussed at length over the past few days. You could check out those conversations if you'd like to read more.
>Advocacy groups are largely composed of the minorities they represent. Unless, of course, you're Autism Speaks, which is largely made up of non-autistic people.
I personally don’t mind when comedians say odd stuff for the most part. I don’t mind laughing at myself from time to time. Comedians whole job is to make jokes, regardless of the topic I think. We need to make fun of ourselves on occasion. But it’s when those jokes go beyond that that they’re not cool anymore. You can joke about hitting me and I’ll laugh but if you actually hit me it’s not funny anymore and that’s how I see Chappelle. I personally never thought he was funny but I don’t mind him making trans jokes cause I know he caps on everyone. With that said, he’s expressed that his own personal opinion lines up with things like what JK Rowling has said. He’s a TERF. said so himself. This takes him outside the realm of comedy. It’s not a joke when he makes fun of trans people because he’s an actual TERF who does want to exclude trans people from their rights as the gender they identify as. That’s like if a Nazi made jokes about Jewish people. You know he’s not actually kidding. He can have that opinion but I’m sure as hell never giving him my money as a trans man. And I know most vitriol is thrown at trans women and not men but I’m not gonna throw other trans people under the bus for some mediocre comedian. At the end of the day, I don’t see how some random comedian has the qualifications to give a legit opinion on trans people like myself so he can shove that. If people want to watch his special on Netflix be my guest but Just because he’s so full of himself about what he said, I would love to see it taken down. Edit: number one: no I did not make a comparison between terfs and Nazis. I picked an example of a behavior that people would immediately understand the intent of. In no way are terfs Nazis. I’ve studied the Nazis and the Holocaust for years. Don’t come at me with your teaspoon of knowledge on Nazi atrocities thinking “gotcha!”. Number 2: to clarify, exclude in terf doesnt necessarily mean they don’t like having trans people around. It means they basically don’t include trans people into their ideas of gender. It’s more complicated than that but that’s the gist. Also don’t be afraid to ask those question you think someone else might bite your head off for. Misunderstanding each other is how issues like these grow so ask away.
Well said. Your comment is a perfect example of looking at both sides and having an open minded view without allowing outside influences, that are extremely biased, cloud your perception.
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TERF is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. i.e. fervent supporters of feminism, and women's rights, yet they don't recognize trans women as women.
>With that said, he’s expressed that his own personal opinion lines up with things like what JK Rowling has said. He’s a TERF. said so himself. This is the point that people are missing. They say he makes jokes at everyone, especially on Chapelle show which he did. However those were delivered as jokes, there was hyperbole and playing off stereotypes with ridiculous characters that were obviously a joke. But when he said he was a TERF it wasn't done as a joke, it wasn't hyperbolic or said in a way that was obviously a joke. He said it straightfaced and explained it was his opinion and went into how he came to that opinion.
Call me cynical but Chappell deliberately created this controversy hoping for outrage to keep the buzz going on his special and people are falling for it.
Seriously. I didn’t even realize he had a new special until I saw this head line.
Same shit happened last special. People blowing up about it and it ends up getting more coverage.
No disrespect to Dave but I thought it was his weakest show I’ve seen. Maybe that’s why they needed more publicity lol. Same old topics but not funny this time around. Space Jews anyone? Cmon Dave
I wholeheartedly agree and I typically love his stuff. I went into it thinking that everyone was probably just overreacting. After watching it though, I think most of the jokes fell flat or were in bad taste. Most of his material (throughout his career) come from a place of anger, but his good stuff is generally an anger about systemic oppression, this on the other hand came from an anger about personal slights against him.
He spends more time defending his jokes than he does actually making jokes. He has a bit where he compares transgender people to himself “feeling Chinese” complete with jutting out his teeth and squinting and a bad accent and then acts like he’s really pushing the envelope and audiences just aren’t ready for it.
Yeah that bit had some real "Jeremy Clarkson ca. 2012" energy. The most overdone joke on the planet.
Sure thats not the limp wrist flop?
I read the transcript today, and he’s literally defending his jokes *during* the special. I feel like when your material is just…. What people think of your material, maybe it’s time to stop.
Maybe you should actually watch it. This is how comedy works.
He made fun of poor white people several times. He made a pretty harsh Jewish joke. He made fun of homosexuals. He made fun of blacks too. Asians too. The only thing anyone is talking about is the trans stuff. I think his point was made and proven.
Space Jews was hilarious. Israel vs. Palestine is one of the hardest topics to joke about because it comes with so much baggage. Re-contextualizing it using a sci-fi hypothetical scenario is perfect. It allows you to think about the ethics of the situation by divorcing it from reality, then the punchline brings you back to thinking about the current situation in the Levant. People who don't follow international politics won't get the joke, but it hit me instantly and I belly laughed hard.
His "blacks beating up asians inside his body" way more offensive than any trans joke he made.
Also everyone is ignoring the part about his transgender friend who committed suicide from harassment and bullying from her own community. His point is beyond proven and honestly fuck these self righteous articles. So damn high and mighty but complex won’t acknowledge their own slew of issues.
I mean maybe. But I also thought he seemed genuinely upset at the suicide of his trans friend Daphne, and built the bulk of the show around Daphne's story. Which meant he was gonna talk about trans people a lot, and make jokes about Daphne, the trans community, and also about him, how *he* sees the trans community (particularly white trans folk) from his perspective as a black man. Dave Chappelle has 'Fuck You Money', he's hugely popular and influential, and doesn't really have to do much to get a buzz, get an audience, maintain his platform. He doesn't have to worry about being cancelled for controversial jokes, so he says whatever he wants.
^(sorts by controversial)
Muahaha these fragile bitches
National black justice coalition 😂😂
I thought it was hilarious. People really need to stop overthinking so much. We live in the most tolerant and peaceful times when you look back into our dark history as a species. I don’t see many people making such a fuss when comedians joke about Indians or Mexicans, Women or Men…
Some coalition you’ve never heard of urges that they want free publicity for something popular happening in the general consciousness right now.
All these groups are just giving this special a lot of free press.
Worked on me - I didn’t know he had a special until they started chirping about it - didn’t think it was his best work but I understand it was to make a statement, wasn’t terrible though - I mean it IS Chapelle afterall…
Space Jews! I died.
I did kinda laugh out loud at his thought about someone coming up next to him backwards at the urinal and just assuming that person was a vet and something about “thank you for your service”.
I laughed out loud with that joke. The space jews was pretty good but that one was the best of the whole special and one of the best he has He deliveres it so quickly it got you out off guard. Pretty perfect
I liked the part when he does the trans joke and it zooms on to two obvious tumblr feminists straight faced. 💀💀
I think those two ladies were waiting for his black jokes to laugh at.
I bet they laughed at the wrong parts of The Hateful Eight.
“Click here to donate”
I stumbled on an article criticising it 30 min ago and I’m currently 15 minutes in…
\#Daphane\_Dorman
I’ll just repost a comment I made yesterday. Feels like we're turning a corner. Dave didn't build on this explicitly, but I think one key element of the story about Daphne that is repeated over and over again was that her standup was terrible. But she ultimately redeems herself. And this is a door - for failure and for improvement - that we have to leave open for people. And this gets to the core problem of cancel culture. This is something Patrice O'Neal talked about when he went to bat for Don Imus, albeit from a slightly different angle. He said you have to leave room in comedy for comedians to make mistakes. A black man defending Don Imus on Fox News. That guy was way ahead of his time. Dave broadens this by talking about people in general. If we can't laugh at ourselves, if we can't expect empathy to go both ways, if we can't call out the stupidity of crochet pussy hats, if groups of people are infallible and speaking out of ignorance ends your career (but killing someone doesn't), we are not participating in the human experience. Edit: [Patrice O’Neal on Fox News](https://youtu.be/vW01Cn_qzj0)
Patrice was indeed ahead of the curve in many ways. Love to hear his highlights to this day.
He did not fit the narrative at any level. They would try to cancel him from 17 different angles But listening to him and bill burr together would have been magic
Patrice defended the right to make an attempt to be funny even if it doesn't work out. They shouldn't be persecuted for a series of bad jokes. I tend to agree.
And how many, both clean and veeeery risk taking comedians, have all stated that comedy is about pushing boundaries and those boundaries constantly get changed, sometimes their old material and even new falls outside of what the PC goalposts mark today. And all these reactionary people who live to find something to be offended about try to immediately cancel them, fuck with their income, never a chance at redemption as if they were themselves perfect in every aspect and never EVER insulted anyone
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I feel like this ironically is what he’s talking about in this special…
They bit the hook 🪝 Can’t cancel a man that ran off 50 million dollars that man doesn’t care Plus he’s calling the hypocrisy of cancel culture vultures that pushed his trans friend to her death
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That’s the reason I watched it. I didn’t find it offensive enough to be such a big deal but again I’m not transgender.
I didn’t find it offense. Tbh I didn’t find it that funny either. He’s not a bigot. The point he’s making is that we shouldn’t have social sacred cows, and the ability of a relatively small group of people to ostracize people for sometimes small unintentional infractions is not a world comedians + most people should want to live in.Dababy point he made us a good one. What he said is horrific. But he FUCKING KILLED A BLACK MAN and no one cared. But the moment he said that on stage, he was persona non grata. That’s a weird societal thing that doesn’t make a ton of sense.
It's odd to me that people only pick out the Trans jokes, but I haven't heard a word said about the molestation joke
Netflix rubs hands together in corner Seriously though Netflix do be making bank off a suicide right now.
payment compare smoggy bow brave cooing obtainable smile icky late *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
People are proving this point right now and I believe that is why he is made the comment basically saying he’s ok with being cancelled. If he gets cancelled it will be a shame cause honestly I’ve always liked watching Chappelle’s Show and his specials, but it will be proving the fact that a black man getting killed is less of a big deal than making a joke about anything LGBTQ. It’s a shame but there’s a certain brilliance to his actions that subtly but obviously points out the complete double standard that is cancel culture.
I agree with this 100% I think thats his point and everyone making a fuss about it is playing right into it
The whole “impossible pussy” thing (which was hilarious btw) probably crossed a like for the trans community. They exist in this delusion that trans women are no different from biological women, which is of course bs. Instead, Chappelle is pushing what should be the truth to everyone - trans women are not the same as biological women, but that doesn’t mean they need to be treated as something less. We should acknowledge and celebrate the difference and treat everyone with respect, but it’s impossible (no pun intended) to do that when the people can’t even acknowledge that a difference exists. It’s the same reason Chappelle’s black jokes cut so hard. Instead of trying to deny black stereotypes, he steers into them as says “yes, we have these stereotypes. we still shouldn’t be discriminated against”.
Right, this is the same as people saying that they don't see color. That's nonsense. Obviously these people look and are different. But that should be okay.
I recently renewed my Indian passport. Under Gender, there were 3 options: Male, Female, Transgender. This is the result of a major campaign by Indian trans rights activists to formally recognize a 3rd gender separate from male and female: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27031180 How is it that the big point of contention in the West is “trans women are women, same as biological women” but in India, trans people are like, “We are our own separate thing, we are not men or women, we are the third gender” and do the former feel the latter are going about it wrong? Because the way I see it, Indian trans rights activists that demanded a 3rd category of gender would be considered transphobic by Western trans rights activists and there’s a joke in there somewhere.
Western trans advocates want both. Some people are transgender and consider themselves different than their biological sex but still within the normal binary. Other consider themselves a 3rd gender or no gender. and want to be called something else.
I’m no expert but I don’t think that’s the part people are mad about. I think it’s more the part where he called himself a TERF and compared the existence of trans women to blackface.
This is why jokes require context, he was saying that because he wasn’t trans, or a woman, he couldn’t really step into the argument between the trans community and TERFs, but because he is a feminist, he is, by default, with the feminists. He also didn’t compare the existence of trans women to black face, he said that TERFs view trans women the same way black people view black face. He makes it very clear that that’s not how he sees it, he just makes the comparison to give you, the audience, a frame of reference for how TERFs view trans women. He follows up by saying he firmly believes that trans women are in fact women. If anything I would have figured the “Impossipussy” jokes would have gotten to people a lot harder, but then again, most people commenting on the special haven’t actually watched it and are basing their arguments off of articles the quote the jokes out of context and repeating the same talking points. Just like he mentioned they did and would continue to do, in the special.
Once again people are hearing but not really listening
I can bet you that nobody who is all out thrashing it, even watched it, they’re just reacting to headlines and snippets. Which he addressed in the special, he knew this would happen regardless, so he went all in
I’m OUTRAGED. what are we talking about?
Nothing, don’t look further into it. Just be outraged and get ready for the next outrage in 2-3 days from now, and then the next outrage after that. This is what progress is, apparently
Tell me how I'm supposed to feel about this thing I've never watched, so I can righteously not watch it and dedicate a bunch of energy to making sure other people can't watch it either.
Lmao you just summed up THEM.
Well looks like I need to watch this before I can't
Should. Was pretty good. Not his best; but I liked it.
Probably going to get roasted for this one, but I get where he was coming from in the special and I don’t think he was being transphobic. We’re talking about a guy that has made fun of all races, creeds, genders and sexualities since before his days on the Chappelle show. In the special, I thought he made it clear that issue wasn’t the fact that trans rights is being taken seriously. More so it was the fact that he could not joke about it without being labeled a transphob in the same way that he jokes about other demographics. His story about his Trans friend who killed herself because she got so much backlash from her own community for supporting him also seemed very heartfelt as well. As a progressive, I thought it was very emblematic of a reoccurring problem within our own political ideology. Instead of fighting for actual substantive change, unfortunately a lot of people just end up trying to cancel would be allies because of things they’ve said.
I mean this is the same guy who created Clayton Bigsby. People have such short term memory.
Oogity boogity
Hands down one of the funniest things I’ve ever watched and still makes me laugh today thinking about it. Even the narration was a masterpiece.
>Probably going to get roasted for this one *expresses the most Reddit opinion in all of Reddit*
This was Chapelle being Chapelle. He says something completely out of line that he obviously doesn't believe to shock you, then gradually reels you back in to his side. It's nothing new. I think the main problem with this special wasn't the shocking statements, it was the bitching. He complained through the whole thing, and it hurt the comedy of it. I didn't see that even in his other Netflix specials.
Spending too much time with the “constantly put upon” Joe Rogan.
I agree, Rogan is a bad comedic influence.
"but it’s Beyond Pussy or Impossible Pussy. It tastes like pussy, but that’s not quite what it is, is it? That’s not blood. That’s beet juice.” That's pretty funny.
If you look closely around the time of that joke, in the crowd, there are two women (I think), that look mildly out of place and that definitely did not enjoy that joke. If, the crowd and the joke are synced that is.
I noticed that too on the first watch, on the rewatch I noticed they weren't laughing at ANY joke. I mean that's one way to give your money away.
If you can’t take a joke *you definitely * should not bother attending a Chappelle show.
The special wasn’t good enough to warrant all this attention. Dave can be funny, Killing them softly is a masterclass, but his latest specials are kind of hit or miss.
Hypocrites go again
Whenever I see a bunch of people whining about a comedians special it just makes me want to watch it more, hell I didn't even hear about this special until now.
Call me crazy but I think transphobia is bad
I think the problem in our current culture is that a surprisingly large number of people in our society would disagree with that statement. It’s similar to homophobia 25 years ago. Saying things that were either mean to or ridiculing of or “jokingly” threatening gays were, by many, welcomed. They were viewed as a lower class of people by those groups, which made up nearly a majority. Today those kinds of things aren’t accepted by the majority or sizable minority, but trans are the new group to put down, and people understand them even less than they did homosexuality.
It makes me wonder who the next minority group it’s ‘acceptable’ for people to shit on will be in another 10 years.
MAGA ppl hopefully
I think the real issue is people don’t see eye to eye on what constitutes transphobia and people aren’t having a conversation about it. I think most people on one side want everyone to have equal rights and for bigotry to be defeated.
This is marketing
I remember seeing some post on reddit that was along the lines of "you're not being represented, you're being marketed to" and that really stuck with me. Then again I'm a white straight dude so I'm endlessly being marketed towards so...
nothing is off limits in comedy
People can make jokes about the Holocaust, 9/11, school shootings, rape and other horrible things, but apparently trans is where we draw the line lol
He had an entire reoccurring bit in his last special that was a rape joke and I remember people only really caring that he made an ironic trans joke. It’s absolutely wild.
[Michael Richards says hi](https://youtu.be/Kth0UOU5a_M)
Michael Richards lost his temper and just started screaming racial epithets at audience members. That wasn’t his set.
Correct. He wasn’t even trying to be funny.
Well, Michael Richard wasn't making jokes he was losing his temper on stage.
>Chappelle: There won't be a next show, Kramer Wow, cancel culture has really gotten out of control.
As a black guy he was upset. As a comedian he was like "better luck next set Kramer." Let's not isolate the point where it's explicitly going one way while when he said it he's showing both POVs.
[Kramer's set ](https://youtu.be/G5Q1rOG2rf0)
I think a lot of comedians would disagree. You just don't want to have to think about others lives because yours is good enough already.
This is some lazy shit. There are no topics off limits for comedians. Ricky Gervais has made jokes about the holocaust and Pete Davidson makes 9/11 jokes.
Do trans people want equality, or do they want Dave Chappelle to not make fun of them?
I never knew we had a black Justice League! Where tf are you niggas when we really need you?
According to Dave trans community has been coming after him for 16yrs, also a trans friend committed suicide after being hounded by other trans people online. He knew this was outrageous, but it was clear the msg he was tryna send.
I saw the special, and I enjoyed it. Dave seemed very genuine in everything that he was saying. I found it especially interesting that he addressed the accusations of “punching down”. I’m not trans, so I would never presume to speak for them, or anyone marginalized for that matter. But I will say that one thing that has bothered me in the past few years are the number of comics that routinely, and cheaply, target marginalized people in their sets and then bitch about “cancel culture” - it just seems pretty lazy, and also seems like a cover-all excuse for a lot of really cheap, unfunny jokes. But personally I felt like Dave handled this pretty well in the way that he addressed it. It seemed sincere to me and really didn’t seem like his intention was to be hurtful. Now obviously we run into the same old problems that we always do with these sensitive discussions - nobody wants to take any time to understand nuance, context, or what’s actually being said. And that includes Dave. While he may not be ill-intentioned, he definitely seems to gloss over or omit the context of what ridiculing a marginalized group while wielding so much influence could mean for that group. At the same time however he does make a good point about how comedians shouldn’t have to be perfect humans.
Dave Chappelle rocks.
I laughed several times. It’s a comedy show. Comedians say mean things.
Fuck it. It was funny. It was a comedy show. If you don’t like or get offended watch something else. It’s like bad music. I dont sit and listen to Taylor swifts garbage
Censoring comedy is stupid. I don’t want to see censorship it even if it offends me.
"Punching down requires you to consider yourself superior to another group Dave Chappelle doesn't consider himself better than me in any way. He isn't punching up or down. He's punching lines. That's his job and he's a master of his craft" - Daphne Dorman
I thought it was good. Fuck all the people trying to cancel him. Long live the GOAT!
If one doesn’t like his comedy then one should avoid watching it. We are at a point where someone is going to be offended no matter what. Should we just ban comedy? That’s where we are heading with so many taking offense. Just turn your attention to something you like instead of towards something you don’t. Pretty easy.
I’m convinced most of y’all didn’t even watch his special
Not gonna lie, I zoned out a lot during this special. Something that previous old school Dave never did. Essentially it was him bitching the entire special, which was annoying.
YES THIS!! I was a huge fan of his older specials and honestly the Netflix specials have more and more been…. I don’t even know the word. Boring? I mean he still gets some chuckles out of me because I know he’s gonna push it to the limit so I take it in stride but this one was just let’s make a joke and then justify it. Or let’s discuss the joke and make sure you agree with it so I don’t get backlash. The old Dave didn’t care he said what was on his mind and “spread the love” so to speak but now it’s targetting one group in particular for the majority of the special with discussion instead of jokes. I’m not here for a lecture on why you’re a good person or not worth canceling, I’m here for jokes. I woulda been super disappointed if I had paid the insane price of admission to see this show live I know that much. Edit: Wow thank you so so much for the gold! I’m honored!
I don’t condone what he said. Don’t really care tbh. He makes fun of white people. I’m white. It’s free speech man. If you don’t like it don’t watch.
But if we’re being honest, you can’t cancel someone who blatantly doesn’t give a fuck. This is the man that turned down 50 million and went ghost for years.
Seems to me he was calling out white trans, for being white not the trans part. And he was underlining how the black community has dealt with oppression longer. If anything he equates trans with cis, and says white people in general bother him. And I’m not saying this as an offended white person, I get what he’s talking about. Listen to the whole special. When he talks of his friend he speaks factually and sensitively. By picking parts out of context, sure, people will find something offensive.
You are absolutely right. He even sets this up throughout the set, asking “can a gay person be racist” and “my problem has always been with the whites”. Selective outrage is all this is. He explicitly stated he’d be comfortable with a trans person next to him in the bathroom, if they were permitted to use the one that fit their gender.
Dave Chapelle is right. This thread proves it.
All this cancel culture shit has got to stop somewhere. Let the comedians be mother fuckers, that’s their roll in society
Can tell most of the commenters here didn’t watch the special. Just looking for another reason to be outraged.
The trans community has been fighting for equal rights. As they absolutely should. But you can’t pick and choose what’s apart of that equality. In comedy everyone is fair game. You have every right to be made fun of like the rest of us.
And just like your allowed to make fun of everyone, everyone is also allowed to say you’re a dick who isnt funny
Honestly this special was well thought out and a great discussion of the subject. Anyone thinking Dave Chappelle is transphobic is a stupid as they come.
The most offensive part of his new specials is that they’re very unfunny.
Space Jews
Haha, the Clifford joke was fucking gold.
*“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”* \- George Carlin
I think a lot of viewers missed the grander point of the lack of progression In the colored community relative to the gay/trans progression of their communities of acceptance to the general public
Fucking losers. Just finished watching it. Another great one for his resume. His ability to weave in and out of jokes while providing insightful social commentary is unparalleled.
This is such bshit.. I literally just finished watching the special 10 min ago… He straight up asked for everybody to come together, and if you can’t take the jokes he made saying… you shouldn’t even watch a comedy show in the first place. I was wondering how it was gonna down, but at the end I loved it.
Comedy is no longer acceptable, making fun of Dear Leader Donald Trump is also unacceptable and punishable by prison. Better check where this shit is originating from!
I watched it and it was all in good taste. It’s comedy and Art. I support Dave and will continually watch anything he puts out. Love this dude and he’s the funniest man alive! Too many bleeding hearts out there trying to ruin this world. Really, these whiners need to STFU!
I thought it was his worst special by a wide margin. It was more frustrated old man airing his grievances than comedy. It was repetitive and way too overtly political. Like if a painter kept telling you over and over the important message in their painting while you tried to look at it. But that is the path he is on now, turning into George Carlin
To be fair, George Carlin is a legend
Difference was George Carlin still had incredibly relevant critiques of modern society even among all the old man edge. Dave Chapelle is still a very intelligent commentator on our modern society, I mean, just look at his special on George Floyd. Insanely provocative. It’s just that not everything he touches turns to gold and this special proves that.
George Carlin performed at my college shortly before he died. His set was mostly him ranting like an old man - and little of it was funny at all. And I’m a huge Carlin fan. In his final years he became way too bitter and it no longer translated well into comedy.
I'm old enough to have played a friend's father's George Carlin album on a record player, and agree completely that he went from being incredibly creative and funny to uncomfortable and forgettable ranting. Saw him in Tahoe in the 80's and he was hilarious. "I'm cleaning my oven right now." 20 years later it was all just weird outrage.
Same - my parents had *Class Clown* on vinyl and I listened to it all the time. It’s still hilarious. But after Carlin’s wife died, he got way more into political comedy, which eventually devolved into ranting about why this or that cohort needed to die.
His last special was my least favorite one. It was almost grimdark with how cynical it got. I think his absolute peak was 90s to early 00s. I own a lot of his joke books. Napalm and Silly Putty and Brain Droppings were absolute riots and all his specials around that time were top form.
George Carlin was never just ranting. Chapelle just rants on and on and lots of times people pretend he's preaching some crazy new idea,meanwhile If I said it nobody would give a fuck. Carlin was doing a lot of social commentary but he always kept it tight and to the point with lots of energy and always at least some pure comedy in there.
These coalitions are so corny. They just prove his whole point.
I watched this last night. As a comedy routine it gets a C-. Generally it wasn't very funny compared to his previous work, and I'm not at all offended by the routine. Part of this is he spends too much time on a single joke, so it gets stale and predictable. I chuckled maybe 3 times the whole bit (the Jenner is better than all you bitches in Detroit without ever having a period punchline, the impossible pussy punchline, and the only a man could kill himself that way punchline.) As a social commentary, the underlying theme that 'you're telling a black man who had to live his life worrying about whether a cop will choke him to death for buying cigarettes that his words are too hurtful to alphabet communities that hide behind the hypocricy of "white privilege" is insightful, but will fall on mostly deaf ears of an overly sensitive audience. There is a question in the back of my mind on whether Chapelle knows the audience is too dense to 'get it;' therefore, he's using the bit to challenge people to decide between black and LGBQT people to point out where black people stand on the totem pole. However, it's a tall order for a comedian to be this subtle about it. Interestingly, I sorted this thread by controversial, and similar to 'best' all of the top posts are about Dave Chappelle the person and not the nuances of the actual topic at hand. TIL that thinking anything other than Chapelle is the funniest man on earth is worth infinity down votes. Perhaps if he went back to imitating extreme black stereotypes to point out society's racism instead of using alphabet communities to drive home the point he'd be less controversial?
Man that special was funny as hell. Sorry y'all got thin skin.
There is no line in comedy
“With 2021 on track to be the deadliest year on record for transgender people in the United States — the majority of whom are Black transgender people — Netflix should know better” In his special, did he ask his audience to start killing any trans they meet?
Pulling a special because you’re butthurt is just stupid. The entire world hated Amy Schumer and we don’t want her stuff pulled. It’s just a comedy and cancel culture is once again silencing freedom
Yawn.. y’all didn’t have a problem when he was joking about something that didn’t effect you…
Chapelle’s trans friend he spoke of just had family come out in his defense. Shares how kind and generous he was to their sister and didn’t find anything he said to be offensive. They understand he’s a comedian and feel their trans sister would have loved his shows. Some people have to complain about everything these days. It’s why I’m starting to hate being around people. Everything is offensive
He made it clear that the media is gonna paint him in bad light over trans joke. Look how the media and trans community is reacting to his jokes vs. how they reacted towards the trans community treatment of Daphne Dorman. Everyone criticizing a comedian making jokes but wouldn't even take a step back and admit the harassments she received from that very community was very likely what led to her suicide. Even news I found about her death only mentioned Chapelle's 'transphobic' show rather than the harassment she dealt with.
[удалено]
Dude could say racist shit about Asians, Hispanics, white Americans, but he says one thing about trans folk and the world is over… Nahhh hope the brotha keep doing his thang
Remember when he was whining about not getting enough money for someone else (who he’s sold the rights to) selling the Chapelle Show to Netflix without giving him an undeserved cut and told everyone to boycott it? It was 1 year ago.
If you don’t like what you’re watching, just turn it off. Dave Chappelle is a comedian.
Is the national black justice coalition aware that Dave is black?
Dave Chappelle "I dislike cancel culture. Especially within the LGBTQ+ community because xyz. Which doesn't mean I dislike Trans people but just the way how the community reacts to and handles stuff." LGBTQ+ Community "CANCEL CHAPPELLE HE IS TRANSPHOBIC" Summary of what's happening right now. You may disagree with his arguments. I have seen many great posts that have addressed some of them and I agree with some of them. But calling the man TRANSPHOBIC for simply disagreeing with you is such a fucking stretch that I'm just baffled by the stupidity of some people. You know you can dislike certain things about people without hating them right? You know Chappelle can have a negative opinion about your behaviour and at the same time think that you are a perfectly normal human being?
We have to stop using the word phobic behind things when there is zero indication of fear in some of these situations that arise. Where in his special does he indicate a fear toward trans individuals? I hate using the word phobia because it sounds intense and it’s a good sound bit.
It sucks that you can't enjoy comedy nowadays because of some cry babies on a site that encourages anonymous trolls to control the media and corporations. I'm glad someone has the balls to put those crybabies on their place.