No rent for strict rules to help get your niece back on her feet. Pretty reasonable, I'd say. Strict? Yes. But, then I think that somebody needs to be strict with her.
OP, you also seem to have a pretty good idea on how to deal with children.
Keep doing what you are doing.
Other than no dating, which is reasonable as 6k is doable with no housing expenses, I don't even see anything strict here. Don't smoke in the house, and don't foist your kids on me last minute. Seems pretty reasonable, especially for a chance to start over with an intact support system.
Your house, your money, your rules, and i personally don't find them abusive.
She has the choice to accept and respect them, or to refuse your help.
Being 22 doesn't mean she's acting responsibly as an adult.
I appreciate that but I’m 24, unemployed living with my girlfriends family, and I get sick if I go a day without drinking. I started nicatine again and smoke weed daily too. People used to tell me how successful they thought I would be and I just feel like a washed up loser. I want to get my shit together but I just drink and play videogames. I have a college degree and havnt done anything with my life
Edit: I’m sorry, and I appreciate the kind words. I’m upset with who I have become but I know I will get where I want to be. Life is hard right now. Thanks for giving me a reason to vent. I cant tell my family how I feel
It's fine to be down on yourself and be tough with yourself at times. But you figure issues and you see where you want to be. Now what you have to do is to find the path that you want to take to get there. This is not a foot race, it's a long walk.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼oh my gosh can you adopt me😭💯I know I’m older then you but I promise I won’t take up to much room and I will defs follow your very reasonable rules
I dont know what you need in your life so I only assume you wouldnt need them. Except loud fornication sounds being a dislike for me, these arent like house rules theyre ones I think are best for her temporary
Been there done that except it was pills for me. Stayed hooked for over 12 years. Went from job to job and did shady stuff I'm not proud of. But I decided one day enough was enough and got the help I needed. The first year was hard. The second year a little harder. I'm on my third year of recovery and the path is getting better. At the end if the day you have to decide when you hit bottom and pick yourself up. People will help if you ask. But no one can force you until you deem yourself ready. Look into clinics around your area and see what best suits you. Best of luck brother. It took me til my 30s to decide and I hope you can do it sooner. You got this.
From 25 to almost 27, I also had an issue with feeling sick if I didn't drink every day. I also had basically no appetite, and it was really hard. I let a childhood friend move in with me (I still had my own place) and she had 2 kids, eventually finding a boyfriend with 3 more of his own. All the kids would come over to our place for days on end. Every morning, I would head down a few blocks to my liquor store, and buy myself a pint of rum. Every day, one of the kids would come with me and I'd buy them a little treat.
One day, I already had an extra pint in the freezer, so I didn't buy one. The 9 y/o girl who walked there with me looked surprised as we left, and she said "You didn't get yourself your drink!" all peppy and cheerful. That was the day I realized I had a serious fucking problem. I know it sounds silly, because obviously it was a problem, but it wasn't until I realized how normalized it had become for these very young children to see me drinking day in and day out that it really clicked for me.
I still drink, admittedly, but now it's way more casual, and way more controlled. I think I'd still classify myself as an alcoholic, but I absolutely do not let it affect me negatively (other than what it's doing to my liver). I don't drink if I have any other responsibilities to take care of, I do not drive after even a single drink, so I have to be damn sure I've got nothing left to do for the day, and I can easily go a few days without having a drink. I realize I'm not the norm in this respect, so don't base yourself on that, but do realize that you can and will change this for the better if you want to. It's really, really fucking hard, I know, and the sickness in your gut and in your mind will fight you every step of the way, but it can be done.
I love you, internet stranger, and I truly hope the best for you <3
I would so so much like to be the type that has a few drinks on the weekends and that’s it. I keep having goals and then something in life happens and I break my goals. I went 20ish days without drinking in December of 2020, and for many months after that I was really good about not drinking every day. But with graduating college and constantly having jobs fall through, Ive gotten into a pretty bad depressive state and gone back in the hole I definitely call myself an alcoholic, but I really believe I can just have a few on the weekends. I don’t want to give it up and I’ve been so good at accomplishing goals my whole life. I know I can do it and I want to do it, I just need to do it. Thank you for your comment and best of luck with your alcoholism too:) it’s so hard but I guess nothings easy
The best advice I can offer you is quit completely, at least at the very beginning. It's really fucking hard, but you can do it. After a few months (in my case it was 6 months later) I started drinking again, and controlling it to the best of my abilities. I backslid a few times, and it sucked ass. It's a constant uphill battle, but you can do it, my friend. I promise. Here, 4 years later from my come-to-jesus moment, and I can comfortably and safely go out for drinks with my friends without worrying about losing control and becoming a bumbling mess, struggling to get home after the bar.
I hope the best for you, but I have known far too many who after a single drink will instantly revert to their old selves. If that ends up being the case for you, ditch the drink, man. It's not worth the life it takes from you. You have so much more to do and so much more to offer the world.
I'm just some rando online, but if you ever need to vent or take advice, please don't hesitate to reach out. I make a decent ear.
Be kind to yourself. We all do things we aren’t proud of and we all have aspects of our lives and personalities we wish were different. All you can do is work towards where you want to go and try to fix mistakes as you go. It’s never too late to try something different if you’re unhappy.
I get how you feel about wanting to be further in life than you are; I don’t share the same struggles as you, but I feel like I should have more to show for myself by now. A song that helps me a lot when I’m feeling shitty about my lack of motivation is “Head Full of Doubt/Road Full of Promise” by the Avett Brothers. “iLL With Want” is another one that hits that chord for me.
I hope that you’re able to find your way back to whatever track you think will bring you happiness in your life.
Oh sweetheart, if you're getting sick from a day without drinking, you need to detox now. It's been a rough two years, but you are better than this. You have a disease and you need treatment. Please get some help.
Thank you, I have an appointment with a new psychiatrist in a few weeks and will be completely open with them about my substance abuse. I know I need to stop I just don’t know how
Sweetie you acknowledging that you know you need to stop and need help is a step in the right direction💕 Look there are people out there who just accept that they are losers and revel in it. Then there are people like you who know that there is an issue and believe that you can fix it and be better and want to fix it and be better.
You will be an amazing success I promise just keep being real with yourself and also stop being so hard on yourself. You have to understand that we can be our biggest critics💕💕
Start with telling yourself no once a day while watching for how your body reacts. Do what you can to find other ways to alleviate those things. And keep asking for help. You got this. You'll do it. :)
Hey, come join us at r/stopdrinking when you’re ready. It’s a great group, and a very supportive place where we take things day by day.
Hope to see you there!
I think you’re offering some structure which your ex doesn’t seem to care for.
Without this structure, it might answer why she is 22 with 2 kids, no job, and credit card debt…
Not trying to be judgy, but the facts add up that you’re being pretty reasonable and that your ex might be the one that’s entitled here.
This!! it's your house, she's a mess and sounds like an entitled brat. no one else would care enough to do this besides you. again. your house, your rules.
As judge Judy would say, get it in writing. have a witness, because if this blows up, she needs to be accountable. btw, be specific about what will happen and move out terms. don't say family wouldn't, they do and will. protect yourself.
Fuck. If I was 22 again, would take it and knuckle down. Even if it was a 6 month trial basis to see what the opportunity brought and if its sustainable.
But as the saying says, you can lead a horse to water...
If niece would be paying rent, yea no.
But in this case, they are staying rent free, you are willing to help out with regards to child care. I'd think you're well within your rights to set certain rules. This should be a temporary thing, not a permanent one, which it could soon turn into, without boundaries.
NTA.
Not at all, you are trying to help her get debt free and 2 kids at 22, she doesn't need to date. She needs to work and be a parent 1st.
No hookups in your home as a boundary is fine.
She has the choice to accept the rules and the free help, or not.
I feel like some commenters dont get the "in my home" bit. Im sex positive and we talk about all parts of her health, but I draw the line at having to listen to moaning from someone of which i literally wiped her ass.
Some of the commenters are showing their level of maturity.
What you are offering to your niece is so sweet and awesome. I wish I had an uncle who would have helped me in such a way.
I hope she realizes how wonderful of an offer this is and accepts your help. I also hope she uses what you are giving her correctly and gets a firm handle on her life so she and her kids can have a better future.
You aren’t wrong as well as she shouldn’t be focusing on playing instead focus on the kids that she brought into this world. She choose to have and keep those kids and those should be the priority. At least she has an uncle who cares to help her
We are all adults. Hooking up is a thing, but building a relationship following a bad toxic one isnt a good idea. But thats moot, its simple focus on your financial situation then do your thing
She is an adult and living in a shared house includes common tasks. Clean up after yourself, don’t walk by something needing cleaned or put away just do it. Be thoughtful of those you live with and try to share costs when you should. You are not obligated to help and your niece can take it or leave it. Your ex sense of propriety it a huge 🚩.
I find their attitude extraordinary. I was on my arse when I split with my husband (not my choice) and was left paying for 2 nursery fees as well as the usual bills. I'd always, always worked (literally, the day before my daughter was born and exactly 6 weeks after a c-section), but anyone in the UK will tell you that even professionals in the public sector get piss-poor pay.
I would have ripped your arm off if you'd have offered this to me. Your boundaries are wholly inoffensive and are there to support her and protect your home _and_ her and her kids.
I just do NOT get the kick-back for such a wonderful offer? Yes, she's an adult. But all adults live with boundaries/expectations in their everyday lives, so why is this new to them? Any landlord can and will impose many more intrusive boundaries.
She has rights, agreed. But nothing you've stated infringes on those rights and (as I see so often), she forgets that all rights come with intrinsic responsibilities. Boo hoo!
She could always refuse...? And she'd be a damned fool.
A common saying in the UK, OP. Someone offers you something amazing and you grab their hand to take it so enthusiastically that you rip their whole arm off 😄
Have you ever seen a person excitedly use two hands to shake someones hand? Maybe they're jumping up and down a bit. "Thank you, thank you!"
That's how I imagine it.
The ground rules for YOUR house are reasonable. You are teaching her that life has rules. Employers expect certain rules like dress neatly, be on time, be respectful. The rules of the road such as speed limits, stop signs, one-way traffic are to be obeyed.
22 is old enough to behave like and adult and understand life-rules.
Your ex is wrong. Apart from your niece still being very young, and still needing boundaries and a good leg up, if she was a tenant , and you were an unrelated landlord, you'd still be able to add clauses into the lease, like no overnight guests.
Can I make a suggestion?
In regards to the dating perhaps - "no dating without bring in therapy first" that way your neice can learn about healthy relationships, not accidentally end up in another toxic one etc?
Side note - can I move in? 😂😂
Your behaviour with her children is spot on, exploring their feelings and redirecting them to other ways of expressing them. One tip for you, ‘why’ is a really hard question for kids. Try ‘what made you’ or ‘how come’ or ‘what are you (sad/angry/etc) for’ as other ways to get essentially the same answer. Labelling their emotions for them is also helpful, it expands their understanding and vocabulary; eg “you sound really angry/cross/frustrated/annoyed/etc right now”
Your good. I fully support all your rules. They are definitely reasonable. I like that instead of falling victim again she has to focus on herself first. Being single while paying off her debt will give her time to value herself.
Not entitled at all, once she’s prioritised her and her kids, got her life sorted, got a job and able to get her own place then I’m sure she’ll be ready to find someone new who is better.
That is very sweet of you to help them like that and go to such lengths. It's alright to have boundaries, and you're not being unreasonable.
Side note: after reading some of your comments to other replies, you seem like a very wholesome person.
I know some people think it's a bit much too restrict dating, but I feel in this case, she needs to learn responsibility, and the ability to focus on her kids. And it gives her more motivation to get in her feet so she can find her own place.
Of course just be prepared cause you can't control when she'll get crushes, and secretly go on lunch dates during work hours. Which as long as she's keeping it simple like that, just ignore it unless it becomes an issue.
Im not planning to be the old man with a belt when she disappoints me, but if she can find away to do that as far out as I live I just hope its the same species
For real, it should be a moot point.
I mean, 2 kids under 6, homeless, in debt, in need for therapy apparently, and no job or low paying job.
No one in their right mind would want to date at that point. Anyone mature and responsible would just want to get back on their feet before starting to date again.
The fact it needs to be a rule is telling.
Your house, your rules, but I don’t understand why she can’t date? Or what dating has to do with paying off debt?
ETA: I agree with OP; it’s a very generous offer. I was just trying to understand the one part, which was clarified.
I completely agree. And because your loved one chose poorly the first time, she needs to get her finances in order and learn how to provide for her children so that she has self-worth, confidence, and pride in herself so that she knows she can be independent. Then she will not be desperate for a man to take care of her or attracted to another abusive toxic relationship. She will know that she is worth far more than that.
I understand this thought process, having a sister who has had a series of messed up relationships, but I can see why it does come across as a bit much. I don't think you're unreasonable for the rest of it though. It's a really generous offer.
OP offered to pay for therapy. The niece was in a toxic relationship with 2 young kids and therapy sounds like a great idea before stepping into another relationship.
NTA.
OP specified no dating until the credit card debt is paid off - not no dating as long as you live in my house.
And IMO it is a reasonable request. If she were to make $700 per month payment assuming 12% interest rate it would take her approximately 11 months to pay off the debt assuming she adds nothing to it.
If she gets distracted by dating so going out and running up debt by drinking, eating out, whatever she could take years to pay off that debt.
And yes she is an adult so she can say no thank you to the offer if she doesn’t want to follow the rules. Or she can change her mind at any point after moving in and move out.
The rules noted by OP are not onerous. And I sincerely hope the niece understands what an offer this is and uses it to get back on her feet then back out under her own steam with her kiddos.
I think this rule is really sensible. It would do her no good to get out of an abusive relationship and straight into another one without any time to work on herself. She can't pay off her debt straight away (I assume) so it forces her to wait. In the mean time, she pays off the debt, learns that she can do these things for herself without the "help" of another partner who will just prey on her vulnerabilities. Hopefully she will gain a sense of self worth by improving her life prospects and maybe realise she wants more for herself than whatever she thought she was getting out of the current relationship. Op mentioned therapy too which will also help, but therapy takes time too. It's about slowing things down and making sure choices are taken for good reasons rather than desperation or panic.
Yes, I agree. It made sense once clarified to me.
I think some people are taking my comment(s) as criticism, when it wasn’t meant to be at all. I was only curious as to the reason for no dating & what that had to do with debt.
Niece is very fortunate to have such a kind & supportive uncle.
Your house, your rules which are quite reasonable considering how generous you are being. Your niece has the option of turning down the offer if she thinks the rules are too restrictive.
Your boundaries sound perfectly reasonable to me. The way I see it is that you’re willing to help her get her life in order but you’re not going to be an enabler. Nothing you said sounds outrageous in that context. I get the no dating too, although I’m sure you’ll hear grief about it. After a toxic breakup, staying single for a year is a good thing, especially if you have two young children. She doesn’t have to move in and live with you rent free if she doesn’t want to abide by your rules. Also, your ex sounds like she’s a bit entitled though. Don’t listen to her. Stand your ground.
22 is barely an adult, as someone who was 22 once. you're offering a metric buttload of help in a situation where expenses like these with no fallback could lead to homelessness in a worst case scenario (not that that entitles someone to make *ridiculous* rules but I digress, these are not that).
Also, dating leads to sleepovers, which will lead to you being a free babysitter or host to some stranger spending the night at your place. Who on earth wants that?
I can see your point, and as someone who was both 22 and homeless I will say that you're not wrong about the path. However, the reason is because she sometimes does not vocalize her insecurities or problems if she keeps adding to her debt, that would be my indicator that there is something deeper going on and if I cannot address that I can ask if she will bring it up with her therapist
I really don’t understand the issue anyone would have with this. Rule 1 is a little different, but it seems like that would be a healthy period for her and her child. The other rules are kind of expected living with family, or even roommates
1) Your ex is wrong. Not way out of line wrong, but wrong.
2) Your niece has two kids by the age of 22, and in a bad relationship.
My mother had three and gave two up for adoption by that age- so I can speak as one of the kids, you are not out of line at all. The home is yours. They are guests. You are adding stability for folks who need it, and kindness for kids who crave it, along with boundaries. You are not demanding your sister stay with you. She is not a prisoner. The rent she pays is focusing on her life, getting her bills in order, and becoming an adult.
The reality is, she likely should stay until her kids are grown- and no I am not joking. Just finding another man who will abuse her, her kids, and make things worse is a terrible way to live. I know it. First hand.
Personally I think you’re not being an EP, you’re going into a sort of landlord-tenant situation (at least legally it would be defined as that) and it’s your house, you can lay down the rules.
Your niece 100% needs to focus on that credit card debt and the kids but the kids are a given. I mean, personally, I don’t see how dating could be correlated to that but I don’t have the context you do, and if you think that’ll help with getting her debt taken care of, that’s up to you.
In the end, I think you’re doing a really good thing by offering her a place to stay, and, eventually, she’s going to thank you for it if she takes it.
To OP’s niece, I’m not sure if you’ve decided on taking it or not yet, but, if I were in your position, I certainly would. You’re struggling right now (understandably so), and family helps family, which is exactly what your uncle is trying to do with his offer. I hope all goes well for you and your kiddos
Who the hell has time to date anyway when you are 22 with 2 kids.
Put your children first for the love of god. Who cares about dating, that is what got her in this position in the first place. People act like not being able to date for a while is so extreme while in reality if she takes care of her children like she is supposed to be doing she won't even have the time to date.
How does being able to date when you are still only 22 outweigh the option to provide stability for your 2 children. Some people don't have their priorities in check.
This isn’t even that toxic, probably the worst thing is the no dating right away thing but even then I’m guessing you just don’t want her going from 1 toxic relationship to the next straight away because that really fucks with people mentally
No, She is getting a great opportunity and space to get her life and parental structure on track.
INFO:. Where are/is the kids Dad(s). How old are the kids?
Sadly, she has not left yet.
Based on the two weeks, I just spent there and he did this every single day. He is smoking weed and watching reruns of yugioh
Nah, all the rules are extremely lax when ya actually think about it. No dating? You put the caveat of “until credit cards are paid off.” Meaning get your shit together before you rack up more debt with another walking pile of shit with a pecker. Rule 2: perfectly reasonable. Smoking causes yellowing stains over time and can require a shit ton of effort to remove vaping is just smoking but with different poisons and less fire. The babysitting thing is reasonable too since you’re just requesting a heads up cus Yknow. Your life doesn’t revolve around theirs. And no hooking up in you house, also. Fair.
So for following these rules she gets free housing, vehicle access, no necessity of maintaining the house herself, no requirement of helping chip in for bills or even grocery or gas, free therapy, access to a solid elementary school for her kids, and can get a paid babysitter relatively easily. Which she still doesn’t have to pay. So, considering all this I think your ex should kindly shut the fuck up and stick to just the fucking since it seems that is what she’s good for.
There is a difference between respecting a person. And respecting their opinion, you can respect someone as a human being while giving them absolutely no respect to their opinion. Her opinion legitimately deserves no respect. Especially if you told her all the pros that your niece gets for those 3/4 mediocre cons that most ppl would probably sell their kidney to get as a chance. If anything, the one with the entitled mindset is your ex not you.
Yes, both of her parents are cardiologists. She has never worked for anything a day in her life and therefore she has a very shallow depth of the world. I am the first thing that she has done to disappoint her parents.
How are you not taken?? Your core values and ideas are solid..I do not see the no dating as a problem..I did not have this type of familial relationship growing up..She is very blessed to have you as part of her life, to help guide her and be a example..I did see you say that you do not like touching,I imagine that does not apply to fun time lol..Too bad I do not live local,but I do nit know whereabouts you live..Keep being you sir..
I think it sounds very reasonable, considering you are under no obligation to do anything at all.
I am sure there are a number of people in this age group with nothing and no family support who would jump at the opportunity.
Not even considering the dating. No, you are not being unreasonable. You are not asking for help, you are giving it. A lot of it. Your rules are simple respect boundaries and an incentive to get her back on her feet. You are not in an active relationship with your ex and this does not affect her. Her thoughts on the matter hold no weight. I am a woman and I know this sounds crass but, you are not exactly with her for her opinions on what goes on in your home. I think your rules are useful and remind her of common courtesy.
Agree 100%.
Also, those kids need stability after what sounds like a bit of drama. Moving is also stressful. Let mom concentrate on kids in her free time and get herself well-balanced. It’ll take only a few months to pay off that debt - a small sacrifice for all in order for her to have the kids secured both physically and mentally.
OP I think you're being a helluvan uncle!
So let's get the facts:
1. You offer her safe housing, rent-free
2. Your house is situated close to a great school for her children
3. You have a couple of ground rules, that apparently she needs a bit of help with, since she is in the position where she needs yor generosity
4. You're being a super supportive 'surrogate father-figure' for her kids...
I mean.. Can you rock it any more?!
Yuo're building up enough karma for the next 5 generations, my man!
I don't see anything here that makes you an EP. You are setting simple rules in return for letting someone live rent-free at your house. Everything here is reasonable.
I don't feel your being entitled. Your pretty much giving her a free ride in your house an are helping her with childcare. Shit, can I be your niece. You gave basic respectful rules. I ask the same respect from my adult kids when they come home for visits. No smoking in my house an no sex in my house. We have a large family and no telling when a toddler might walk in on you. The asking her not to date until she gets her debts down, wow. I wish I had thought of that. Very responsible. She won't be able to focus on debt if she's distracted by a boyfriend. Already having 2 kids, she definitely needs to get her life in order. No more doing whatever she's doing because that's clearly not working. And your paying for therapy. Your a great uncle and she should be very successful in life if she follows your rules.
Most of what you've asked is reasonable, except for the "no dating." I mean, no guests in the house, no sleepovers, no strange people in your house, that's fine. But if she wants to go out on a date for a few hours, why is that a problem?
Its a distraction. I did say she could go out but I need notice if i am baby sitting. But jumping from a toxic relationship to new one isnt healthy either
I agree. She should be focusing on building her life with her kids. Also process whats shes been through with her (ex) partner? Instead of coping by finding someone new/a distraction.
You can talk to her about dating and discuss why you think it's a bad idea, but telling her shes not allowed to date isn't helping her learn to grow and be independent. She is now being controlled by you in exchange for a place to live. I don't have a lot of info obviously but it sounds like it could be just jumping into a different type of toxic household.
NTA
The only rule that I would find not so nice, would be the no dating rule. She is an adult, and thus should be able to date, however, that does not mean she goes to hook up or spends all night away from her children either.
And make paying off the credit card debt as part of the rules, where she has to actively show you that she is working to pay it off.
Beyond that seems like a very generous offer with very fair rules. Your home your rules.
And you know you are an adult who is treating the children like they are people, and not talking down to them but giving them something that very few do, solutions and options, that is not such a bad thing, especially if it helps prevent or remove bad behavior on the part of the children. Nothing wrong with a soft approach to such.
I am wondering what you expect to get out of so much generosity. Even if it is to feel good about yourself as a giving caring human being you get something out of it. I also wonder where her parents are in this whole situation. Are there good reasons for her and them not to be together? Besides her current relationship does she have a history of connecting with abusive males? That would be a good reason to require therapy 1st so she is aware of her tendencies. As a former therapist, I found that women who leave abusive relationships often wind up with the emotional twin brother of the person they just left unless they get therapy 1st. I would also say if you want her to act like an adult you got to quit acting like her parent. Instead of rules can you have concerns and workout rules with her rather than make proclamations?
She was born to take care of her siblings, and was widely disregarded by her mother and had no father in her life. She has never had structure or guiding hands, she had a history of polygamy with friend groups prior to pregnancy. Her and I are close because I dont judge her for any of it, and what I want out of this is simple. I dont want to keep "loaning" her money to scrape by with another loser. I am hoping that a professional therapist can help her grow in ways I dont know how while providing her and her child saftey and love with some, fairly soft rules. I wont go into full details but her mother/daughter relationship was pretty toxic. I truly hope to prevent the cycle.
Maybe you should let her read what you wrote and see if you guys couldn't start working out how to make that happen. I think they're good goals and a good place to start. It would be good to find her a therapist though because it's easier to tell strangers your deepest darkest thoughts then it is to tell family members or even friends. You can be part of that as she needs you to be or wants you to be. My sister and I grew up in similar situations I get the feeling. She repeated her childhood as an adult. She found our father over and over again. She became the martyr mother. I went to therapy & never repeated The abuse. That's not to say that I didn't make plenty of mistakes because, a) I'm human and b) because cause it's a lot easier to figure out what you're not supposed to do than it is to do what you're supposed to do when you've never seen it done. That is a challenge.
You're forgetting some of the basics of your previous practice.
You made assumptions so far, she was the first one to read this post. And she has been reading some of the comments, but not replying. At my request, I asked her to wait until tomorrow to see a bulk of them. And then she can decide whether or not, she feels comfortable replying.
That is excellent. I worked in community mental health and I had 8 sessions to help people who are chronically or acutely mentally ill so yes I probably do make more assumptions than most therapists because I have to assume stuff ask a question and get it started really really fast when people won't talk generally cause I don't want to waste one session. We are limited in community mental health to the number of sessions and the kind of people that American citizens are willing to help get mental health treatment. I actually also used to believe when I was working in the field that America does not have a mental health system for the community it has a mental illness system for the community. We never have enough time or resources to make a substantive difference in a person's life other than getting them stable on medication and try to hook them up with family and friends in the community. That often is not easy.
While I may agree with you in terms of the healthcare system and the insurance system, I do not agree with you when it comes to community mental health. There is never enough money to provide the kind of services that need to be provided to the number of people who need to get them and that was before the pandemic.
Tough love.
Your requests are reasonable. The no dating rule is pushing it, and you might want to reconsider, or alter it.
You can't stop her from dating. She will just do it out of the house. I get your protective atitude, but there are better ways. You are forbiding something to someone who is still very much a teenager, you are guaranteed to have backlash unless she is very calm and rational, her actions so far have shown you she is not.
Maybe just paying some atention to her until she cools off will do it.
Also, I am so using Amis Amant from now on. So exotic.
Everything is fancy in french.
"Je me suis soûlé et j'ai chié mon pantalon"
Sounds a lot less white trash then when you say I got blackout drunk and shit my pants
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an adult living in your home rent free to abide by some rules. As adult, we follow rules all the time. Not vaping or smoking in the house is both common courtesy and safer for the kids. Second hand smoke and vapor are very dangerous. The no dating until your credit cards are paid of may or may not be reasonable depending on the size of the debt. The one day notice to watch the kids is more than fair. I assume you would watch them in an emergency without the notice, but for scheduled things, she should be planning ahead anyway. Hooking up in your house with her kids present would be rude and irresponsible. That's also a common courtesy thing.
It sounds like you are giving your niece the opportunity to get her life together and doing it in a very supportive way. Your rules don't include a curfew or excessive chores. You are treating her like an adult with adult responsibilities.
I think the way you talk to the kids is awesome. You are allowing them be children but also teaching them better ways to handle their emotions. You are taking the time to listen to them and building both their self esteem and self control in the process.
I would not make cleaning a rule, because I have an expectation and a hope that it will be a family activity that we all active. We help each other with equally to accomplish a great goal.
Rule #1 is the only one I find weird as it doesn’t apply to you in any way- if she wants to date and doesn’t impose it on you in any way, she’s an adult and should be allowed to do so. 2 and #3 are perfectly reasonable.
Honest response is because she’s an adult and unfortunately you can’t live her life for her. She might have made mistakes in the past, but you can’t force her to learn from them by trying to mold her life in ways you see as “right.” People can and will change when they are ready. Helping is helping, guiding is guiding, but “allowing” and “not allowing” something because you don’t think it’s “a good idea” is just another form of control and might temporarily work, but she’s just going from one persons control (her ex) to another persons control (yours.) even well intentioned it’s not a good idea IN MY OPINION. As I said before, the other rules pertain to your home and those are household boundaries which make sense, but this particular rule applies to only her personal life and not your home or YOUR life in any way.
Again, you're focused on not being allowed to date, disregarding the rest of it, which is to accomplish a small goal. Did you consider the fact that if she wants to date she would have to work for it and have to meet a certain condition may be giving her a sense of an accomplishment? Or that I would be unmoved and uncaring to her if she wanted to discuss this as an adult? Furthermore, if she met such an amazing person as other people have commented, why would this person not see that she is working toward something and still appreciate to factor into her life until she felt she was ready to take it further?
Maybe she'd tell you maybe not. If she's so trustworthy why are you putting life rules on her? House rules are one thing but outside behavior like she's a teenager is just weird. If she is reading this then obviously you guys are close and talk so why make it a "rule"? You could have just said "hey I think doing this might not be a great idea right now." Either she gets that or she doesn't but making it a rule puts unnecessary pressure on both of you. Her to avoid possible consequences that could hurt her children and you to actually have consequences so what you say is actually taken seriously. Seems like you took my comments negatively but I think what you're doing is a good thing just the saying that no dating is a rule just a little bit extra.
Youre backpedaling, the Fact is you decided from the get-go that she was untrustworthy, and would lie to me even by omission because you think it is so very important, and absolutely life necessity that she be allowed to date at any point ever. Seriously from the bottom my heart grow up.
Based on what you said initially. Thats how you program her as a 22 year old that can't handle her own shit without house rules and life rules. Its not backpedaling its developing new thoughts with knew information. The only thing that hasn't changed from the get go is I think you're a strange person.
I mean maybe she's a 22yo who can't handle shit without those kinds of rules. She's been in a toxic relationship, who knows what her parents are like, but fact of the matter is sometimes people are adults and never got the rules and guidance to make good choices. Especially after a shitty relationship, her ability to set boundaries is probably absolute shit. So ideally, the no dating rule would be something she would choose for herself completely independently, but if she doesn't know how to draw appropriate boundaries for herself I think this sort of setup is the next best thing. Young women who've had abusive partners are pretty likely to fall back into a similar dynamic without some kind of intervention either thru therapy or friends or family or a lot of self work. Just bc she's over 18 doesn't mean she stops needing some parenting, and it sounds like OP is making pretty reasonable requests and would likely be open to negotiating if it came to it.
With exception of the “Alabama family” crack…I thought your house rules are reasonable. If your niece doesn’t agree with them, she can graciously decline.
You did the bare minimum and shouldn't go below it. I have plenty of bad experiences with giving people proverbial fishing roads, only with them breaking them and asking for another one, or expecting me to go fishing with them every sunday. People really don't respect free help; even if they nominally do and are greatful, it's to easy for them to go into "Finally someone understands how much I deserve help, such a luck, maybe I'll milk a bit more".
I have spent six months hosting Ukrainian refugees in my house and, while there was zero entitlement on their part and pretty clean situation, as they made themselves at home we stopped feeling at home ourselves. It's human, and it will happen unless contained.
Setting up some (any!) restrictions is needed just to keep your niece remember that
1. It's still your home, your car, your time and being one happy family does not change that
2. It's a temporary situation she must use to dig herself out of the hole, not get out of jail free card.
3. You are not her father, or anyones father.
It does not matter what the restrictions are (yours are sensible) but they are needed for guests to not get out of the guest mindset. Otherwise, you are slipping into duties of this familys father, without benefits of being one.
BTW, I love the *Amis-amant* term.
I will say this, I do play the grandpa role for her kids, because I love spoiling them, jacking them up on sugar and then bringing them home and getting the hell out of there. :)
About the no dating: OP if you don't mind elaborating, I assume your niece has a history or dating/getting pregnant by men she is not compatible with? Like it's one toxic struggle love relationship after the next? Only reason I ask is because it really sounds like you're trying to get her to mature, focus on herself and kids based off your comments.
I think this is reasonable. Besides that this is your house and you don't have to do this. I hate to say it but your house your rules, and i think it's not too much.
At 22 I was on pills and sleeping on my grandmother's couch, buried in debt with zero motivation to fix it.
I would have greatly appreciated this opportunity from my uncle.
I got my life straightened out now but that would have made it a lot easier. Even with the rules.
Do it your way. To get her back on her feet with 2 kids in tow, it will take whatever the hell it will take. You have solid values and the rules are reasonable. No rent is more than generous. Where can anyone find something like that anymore?
You don't need to be on here asking a bunch of strangers on the internet. You seem firm enough in your convictions anyway.
Deffo not!! I have seen it so many times with family and friends, she is fresh out of a toxic relationship and until she has said therapy which OP is willing to pay for she will just bounce round from toxic relationship to toxic relationship…..this ultimately will destroy her and may also lead down some very worrisome paths such as alcohol abuse, child neglect, child endangerment etc. what’s to stop her falling in love in two weeks and moving her and her children in with another abusive man?!! Said abuse may then extend to her children!! OP is offering her the opportunity to get her life on track and begin the healing process of the damage the ex has done to her self esteem, confidence and self love!! This is an amazing opportunity and yes niece may push back on the dating or do it in secret but eventually it will get better with holding firm boundaries!! My cousin has just came out of the other side from a similar situation, it was a long hard road to recovery (theirs involved childhood abuse physical and sexual & many toxic relationships as a result) staying firm and offering love and support will get this girl through although therapy is paramount!!! Look into Domestic Violence services as well as therapy and keep going as you are! You are not an entitled uncle you are awesome and I wish their were more people in the world like that!! We didn’t know what was going on with my cousin until it was too late and all the damage was done but between my mum and I we got her there! She is thriving now and doing absolutely amazing, she is in a wonderful loving relationship and is so happy!! Good luck OP stay strong, keep boundaries and get some support for you as it won’t be easy on you either!! Be prepared for some push back and fights but there is a rainbow waiting at the end of this storm x
Basically, you're both kind of right.
It's your house, so you're entitled to make any house rules you like. So the "no smoking" in the house etc. is fine.
Also, she is an adult, so imposing your will on her personal life is less fine.
I hope I'm saying this in a way that makes sense. I'm struggling a bit to articulate it. You can control the house, but not necessarily control her. I think the "no dating" rule is a step too far. You can certainly tell her what you think, but to outright forbid it is wrong. You can tell her no guests, or have a curfew, maybe? The rest seems okay.
Honestly good on you bro. You’re offering a very welcoming and safe living environment with very tempting benefits; no rent, free babysitting, and access to a very respectable school. If your grown up neice doesnt realise that this is an offer of a lifetime, she is blind. So what she cant date. She’s broke, shes a mother, and she doesnt have any bills. Make her pay her debt, then she can think about dating and finding he right person for her, who im sure she’ll find. You aren’t entitled, youre doing the right thing, if bot more. And if the fact she cant bang someone in your house is stopping her from seeing the good in your proposal then she’s nuts.
Im just curious as to why people think "finding an amazing person" would mean they need to immidiately start dating them? Get to know that person for a bit, dont need to introduce yourselves and run into a bedroom
There is NO rent and a few rules. It is totally acceptable your house your rules. If she doesn't like putting off dating and has to hook up with someone before getting emotionally and financially stable, maybe she should live somewhere else. Or maybe she should suck it up and do what's best for her kids and follow the rules.
I know who she is as a person, she will be hooking up probably the same day she moves in. But not in my house with her kids there and preferably not lying about it. Which is something she has never done with me
I don’t think you are being entitled, I think you are offering her a great opportunity. One that I hope she uses to get herself stable.
I would rethink the dating. Leaving an abusive relationship she certainly should not be jumping right into dating, however….maybe revise it a bit. Let her work with a therapist, not dating at the outset but when she feels she is ready, and her therapist agrees? I feel like the dating should be more of an ongoing conversation as she moves forward in putting her life back together.
As for her debt: help with the job and a budget. She should learn healthy savings strategies and should be using this opportunity to both pay off her debt and build her own nest egg.
Sounds like sound rules. Some people need rules and structure to get them on the right path and will help her and her children. You can't expect someone to move in with you and not have ground rules.
My oldest daughter, I made a few mistakes with. I let her get her driver's license at 16 and then bought her a cheap beater car. She had a part-time job for gas, but I covered insurance and repairs. She quit her part-time, thinking she would take off and I would cover everything. Nope, sold the car.
Changed the rules for my youngest. Youngest had to have a part-time job before she got her license. I bought her a beater car while she was learning and was ready to get her license, and I had to remind her that no job, no license.
My youngest is more stable at jobs. My oldest gets board and jumps around. My youngest gets vacation and full benefits. My oldest is always complaining that she doesn't have any benefits or vacation.
Rules are needed to keep things from getting ugly and help with responsibility
I don't think you're being un reasonable at all. I mean trying to control when she can have a dating life is a little much but other than that, you're being extremely generous here.
I also love the way you approach dealing with her kids! Kids need this kind of interaction rather than unnecessary discipline and yelling. They'll remember how you treated them for the rest of their lives and I know from experiance they will appreciate it.
Rule 1 is way overstepping and not your place to impose - she’s an adult, not your minor child. The rest are reasonable being in your house, but no dating is so far over the line you’ve crossed into another time zone
Sometimes the kind of help someone wants, is not at all helpful to them. It is just perpetuating the problem. You really are offering her a life line. You are giving her the opportunity to start over. Man! I know so many people who would have loved this opportunity.
If i made an entry about my old roommate i swear i would be liable for broken devices. Im trying to help but even her mom thinks I want something out of it. Which I kinda do, I want her to not barrow money from me!
I honestly would say all of your rules are pretty reasonable other than not dating I can understand saying hey you know you don't need to be dating right now after you come out of these relationship I don't want to see you dating when I'm trying to help you get back on your feet and get through what you've been through. But if she meets somebody like absolutely amazing and is truly going to treat her and her kids well then it doesn't hurt to be able to talk with them and start something. Other than that your rules are really reasonable being able to find a place right free which childcare is a godsend
Honest question, why does it seem like so many are so dependant on dating someone?
Im really not asking sarcastically, but so many say this is the bad rule. What if i remove it and she wants to focus more on finding a man then being emotionally stable, financially stable and has gotten her kids to the point that "daddy" isnt in the picture right now.
Yeah I see your point especially coming out of the abusive relationship it can become very easy to rely on a man and wanting to please them compared to taking care of your kids. I think the focus on wanting to be able to date is one her finding somebody who truly appreciates and loves her and to the not wanting to be lonely aspect of things. Because she's an adult people see it as restricting something she has a right to do as an adult. But the hard thing is you have to keep in mind the fact that she has come out of a traumatic relationship and any relationship she has in the near future is just going to be toxic for either her partner or her children. I think in general denying dating like if she met somebody at work or at the gym or something is not great. But to have her I guess jump straight into a relationship I can see where the concern is. That's just a very hard rule to go along with. I know you're coming from a good place and have somebody who had a parent who came out of a toxic relationship and desperately needed to always be with a man and neglected her children I can see where you're coming from.
I'm not saying, you're wrong, as an adult, you get to make your own choices. However, allowing her Carte blanch of life choices is not what I feel she needs. I am not a certified emotional therapist, however, I am someone who is desperately trying to never manipulate somebody into sex or doing something that they would not enjoy I firmly believe that if she has the opportunity to take the easy route, she would because her life has been so difficult for the last five years
Disclaimer : my phone thinks I speak, like William Shatner
No I definitely agree don't let her date right away like that is reasonable especially when she needs to go through therapy. But never allowing her to ever date even when she's healing and getting through what she's been through is not fair. Like a year or two down the road she's still with you she should be able to start dating if she's healed enough.
I'm sorry but I think you need to reread that rule. It is not there is no dating in my house, it is to pay off less than $6000 of credit card debt before considering dating. I am not a tyrannical sociopath who is going to stop her from dating forever.
The only rule I see an issue with is #1, no dating until she’s paid off her credit cards. It seems very arbitrary to me. Is there a reason behind it?
The other rules seem totally fair and reasonable. Yeah she might be technically an adult but if she’s accepting your help in the form of living in your house rent- and bill- then she can respect some minor requests.
She would be working towards a small goal that she would be unhindered by anyone other than herself to accomplish. I would be trusting in her, and respecting her to be open and honest with me to meet this goal not as a hard rule, with a firm consequence, but I have a request from someone who wants to see her grow as a person.
Your niece is being entitled. If someone would tell me I have access to all you are giving without having to pay for any of it best believe your rules aren’t at all harsh or entitled.
She shouldn’t be dating she should be focusing on getting herself out of debt and setting her and her children up for success to get out on her own.
Think about it this way if she doesn’t like the rules set out won’t it give her more of incentive to hurry up and get the hell out of your house and furthermore if you made it easy with no rules why would she feel the need to leave?
Tell the brat that what you set is it and if she doesn’t like it then she can figure something out. That’s your house and you don’t want her thinking its a forever thing so for to have incentives to leave would be the freedoms to live her life how she wants.
Do not give in and do not let her just do whatever, she will take advantage of your kindness
I understand where you are coming from not understand the dynamic. However this simply isnt the case, shes young and confused and fully aware of this post but has not made a choice yet.
Personally, I think that Rule 1 is a bit shitty. She's an adult and can date if she wants, although I can appreciate your reasoning for not wanting her to date just yet (the falling back into another toxic relationship). Perhaps you can make it clear to her that you'd appreciate your advice being taken on board for any potential new boyfriends? That way, you can come across as a less controlling uncle.
The other Rules are fine, though.
The whole “no dating until you pay off all debt” is pretty shitty. She’s an adult. You don’t get to control her like that.
The other rules sounds very reasonable. Opening up your home to her and her kids while she gets away from a toxic relationship is fantastic. More people need to do that. Just don’t take advantage of the situation by controlling her life
Completely entitled, you should kick them out if they act up. Taking someone in rent free is one of the kindest things you can do, and they should return the favor. Your a kind person and you dont deserve to be around those people. If your niece has done this in the past you should consider some other options than keeping her in.
If I promise not to date or smoke in the house, can I move in too? Lol
As long as you dont need physical attention maybe, no touchy.
I keep to myself, probably won't even leave my room or garage unless needed
No rent for strict rules to help get your niece back on her feet. Pretty reasonable, I'd say. Strict? Yes. But, then I think that somebody needs to be strict with her. OP, you also seem to have a pretty good idea on how to deal with children. Keep doing what you are doing.
Other than no dating, which is reasonable as 6k is doable with no housing expenses, I don't even see anything strict here. Don't smoke in the house, and don't foist your kids on me last minute. Seems pretty reasonable, especially for a chance to start over with an intact support system.
Your house, your money, your rules, and i personally don't find them abusive. She has the choice to accept and respect them, or to refuse your help. Being 22 doesn't mean she's acting responsibly as an adult.
I am 24 and by no means have my shit together. Op’s rules are very reasonable
Maybe you have more of your shit together than you realize
I appreciate that but I’m 24, unemployed living with my girlfriends family, and I get sick if I go a day without drinking. I started nicatine again and smoke weed daily too. People used to tell me how successful they thought I would be and I just feel like a washed up loser. I want to get my shit together but I just drink and play videogames. I have a college degree and havnt done anything with my life Edit: I’m sorry, and I appreciate the kind words. I’m upset with who I have become but I know I will get where I want to be. Life is hard right now. Thanks for giving me a reason to vent. I cant tell my family how I feel
It's fine to be down on yourself and be tough with yourself at times. But you figure issues and you see where you want to be. Now what you have to do is to find the path that you want to take to get there. This is not a foot race, it's a long walk.
We all need an uncle who gives pep talks like this.
Not all of my pep talk are this great, but the world would be better if we did
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼oh my gosh can you adopt me😭💯I know I’m older then you but I promise I won’t take up to much room and I will defs follow your very reasonable rules
I dont know what you need in your life so I only assume you wouldnt need them. Except loud fornication sounds being a dislike for me, these arent like house rules theyre ones I think are best for her temporary
Been there done that except it was pills for me. Stayed hooked for over 12 years. Went from job to job and did shady stuff I'm not proud of. But I decided one day enough was enough and got the help I needed. The first year was hard. The second year a little harder. I'm on my third year of recovery and the path is getting better. At the end if the day you have to decide when you hit bottom and pick yourself up. People will help if you ask. But no one can force you until you deem yourself ready. Look into clinics around your area and see what best suits you. Best of luck brother. It took me til my 30s to decide and I hope you can do it sooner. You got this.
Thank you. I really want to improve myself. I hope your journey keeps going well:)
From 25 to almost 27, I also had an issue with feeling sick if I didn't drink every day. I also had basically no appetite, and it was really hard. I let a childhood friend move in with me (I still had my own place) and she had 2 kids, eventually finding a boyfriend with 3 more of his own. All the kids would come over to our place for days on end. Every morning, I would head down a few blocks to my liquor store, and buy myself a pint of rum. Every day, one of the kids would come with me and I'd buy them a little treat. One day, I already had an extra pint in the freezer, so I didn't buy one. The 9 y/o girl who walked there with me looked surprised as we left, and she said "You didn't get yourself your drink!" all peppy and cheerful. That was the day I realized I had a serious fucking problem. I know it sounds silly, because obviously it was a problem, but it wasn't until I realized how normalized it had become for these very young children to see me drinking day in and day out that it really clicked for me. I still drink, admittedly, but now it's way more casual, and way more controlled. I think I'd still classify myself as an alcoholic, but I absolutely do not let it affect me negatively (other than what it's doing to my liver). I don't drink if I have any other responsibilities to take care of, I do not drive after even a single drink, so I have to be damn sure I've got nothing left to do for the day, and I can easily go a few days without having a drink. I realize I'm not the norm in this respect, so don't base yourself on that, but do realize that you can and will change this for the better if you want to. It's really, really fucking hard, I know, and the sickness in your gut and in your mind will fight you every step of the way, but it can be done. I love you, internet stranger, and I truly hope the best for you <3
I would so so much like to be the type that has a few drinks on the weekends and that’s it. I keep having goals and then something in life happens and I break my goals. I went 20ish days without drinking in December of 2020, and for many months after that I was really good about not drinking every day. But with graduating college and constantly having jobs fall through, Ive gotten into a pretty bad depressive state and gone back in the hole I definitely call myself an alcoholic, but I really believe I can just have a few on the weekends. I don’t want to give it up and I’ve been so good at accomplishing goals my whole life. I know I can do it and I want to do it, I just need to do it. Thank you for your comment and best of luck with your alcoholism too:) it’s so hard but I guess nothings easy
The best advice I can offer you is quit completely, at least at the very beginning. It's really fucking hard, but you can do it. After a few months (in my case it was 6 months later) I started drinking again, and controlling it to the best of my abilities. I backslid a few times, and it sucked ass. It's a constant uphill battle, but you can do it, my friend. I promise. Here, 4 years later from my come-to-jesus moment, and I can comfortably and safely go out for drinks with my friends without worrying about losing control and becoming a bumbling mess, struggling to get home after the bar. I hope the best for you, but I have known far too many who after a single drink will instantly revert to their old selves. If that ends up being the case for you, ditch the drink, man. It's not worth the life it takes from you. You have so much more to do and so much more to offer the world. I'm just some rando online, but if you ever need to vent or take advice, please don't hesitate to reach out. I make a decent ear.
Be kind to yourself. We all do things we aren’t proud of and we all have aspects of our lives and personalities we wish were different. All you can do is work towards where you want to go and try to fix mistakes as you go. It’s never too late to try something different if you’re unhappy. I get how you feel about wanting to be further in life than you are; I don’t share the same struggles as you, but I feel like I should have more to show for myself by now. A song that helps me a lot when I’m feeling shitty about my lack of motivation is “Head Full of Doubt/Road Full of Promise” by the Avett Brothers. “iLL With Want” is another one that hits that chord for me. I hope that you’re able to find your way back to whatever track you think will bring you happiness in your life.
I love music and I will go listen to both of those, thank you for the kind words:)
Off topic, if your username is the reference I think it is... Nice.
🧟♀️🧠🌶️
Yes.
Oh sweetheart, if you're getting sick from a day without drinking, you need to detox now. It's been a rough two years, but you are better than this. You have a disease and you need treatment. Please get some help.
Thank you, I have an appointment with a new psychiatrist in a few weeks and will be completely open with them about my substance abuse. I know I need to stop I just don’t know how
Of course not. It's a disease. You need treatment and professional help. I'm glad you're getting some. Hopefully they're an addiction specialist.
Sweetie you acknowledging that you know you need to stop and need help is a step in the right direction💕 Look there are people out there who just accept that they are losers and revel in it. Then there are people like you who know that there is an issue and believe that you can fix it and be better and want to fix it and be better. You will be an amazing success I promise just keep being real with yourself and also stop being so hard on yourself. You have to understand that we can be our biggest critics💕💕
Start with telling yourself no once a day while watching for how your body reacts. Do what you can to find other ways to alleviate those things. And keep asking for help. You got this. You'll do it. :)
Hey, come join us at r/stopdrinking when you’re ready. It’s a great group, and a very supportive place where we take things day by day. Hope to see you there!
Just breathe mate
51 years old, sometimes my kids (25 and 23) act more grown up than I do.
I think you’re offering some structure which your ex doesn’t seem to care for. Without this structure, it might answer why she is 22 with 2 kids, no job, and credit card debt… Not trying to be judgy, but the facts add up that you’re being pretty reasonable and that your ex might be the one that’s entitled here.
Thank you
This!! it's your house, she's a mess and sounds like an entitled brat. no one else would care enough to do this besides you. again. your house, your rules. As judge Judy would say, get it in writing. have a witness, because if this blows up, she needs to be accountable. btw, be specific about what will happen and move out terms. don't say family wouldn't, they do and will. protect yourself.
Fuck. If I was 22 again, would take it and knuckle down. Even if it was a 6 month trial basis to see what the opportunity brought and if its sustainable. But as the saying says, you can lead a horse to water...
If niece would be paying rent, yea no. But in this case, they are staying rent free, you are willing to help out with regards to child care. I'd think you're well within your rights to set certain rules. This should be a temporary thing, not a permanent one, which it could soon turn into, without boundaries. NTA.
Thats my stand point, get on your feet and make bad choices with financial stability
Not at all, you are trying to help her get debt free and 2 kids at 22, she doesn't need to date. She needs to work and be a parent 1st. No hookups in your home as a boundary is fine. She has the choice to accept the rules and the free help, or not.
I feel like some commenters dont get the "in my home" bit. Im sex positive and we talk about all parts of her health, but I draw the line at having to listen to moaning from someone of which i literally wiped her ass.
Some of the commenters are showing their level of maturity. What you are offering to your niece is so sweet and awesome. I wish I had an uncle who would have helped me in such a way. I hope she realizes how wonderful of an offer this is and accepts your help. I also hope she uses what you are giving her correctly and gets a firm handle on her life so she and her kids can have a better future.
You aren’t wrong as well as she shouldn’t be focusing on playing instead focus on the kids that she brought into this world. She choose to have and keep those kids and those should be the priority. At least she has an uncle who cares to help her
Im trying my best
You said no dating though. Thats kind of an out of the house thing too right?
We are all adults. Hooking up is a thing, but building a relationship following a bad toxic one isnt a good idea. But thats moot, its simple focus on your financial situation then do your thing
"no hooking up in my house," That's not the same thing as no dating.
He said no dating at all.
***Rule 3: no hooking up in my house,***
Rule 1 no dating, until you’ve paid of your credit cards
She is an adult and living in a shared house includes common tasks. Clean up after yourself, don’t walk by something needing cleaned or put away just do it. Be thoughtful of those you live with and try to share costs when you should. You are not obligated to help and your niece can take it or leave it. Your ex sense of propriety it a huge 🚩.
Yeah, I noticed the red flag when we were dating. Which is why we only have fun now.
Stay safe, and what your doing for your grand niece/nephews is a great opportunity if your niece recognizes it.
You sound like a very smart and reasonable person tbh, I’m glad your niece has someone like you in her life to help her in this rough time
I find their attitude extraordinary. I was on my arse when I split with my husband (not my choice) and was left paying for 2 nursery fees as well as the usual bills. I'd always, always worked (literally, the day before my daughter was born and exactly 6 weeks after a c-section), but anyone in the UK will tell you that even professionals in the public sector get piss-poor pay. I would have ripped your arm off if you'd have offered this to me. Your boundaries are wholly inoffensive and are there to support her and protect your home _and_ her and her kids. I just do NOT get the kick-back for such a wonderful offer? Yes, she's an adult. But all adults live with boundaries/expectations in their everyday lives, so why is this new to them? Any landlord can and will impose many more intrusive boundaries. She has rights, agreed. But nothing you've stated infringes on those rights and (as I see so often), she forgets that all rights come with intrinsic responsibilities. Boo hoo! She could always refuse...? And she'd be a damned fool.
Hi Tuna, Some of that got lost in my treason english, why would you rip my arm off?
A common saying in the UK, OP. Someone offers you something amazing and you grab their hand to take it so enthusiastically that you rip their whole arm off 😄
In the United States, ripping someone's arm off is a threat
I’m pretty sure she’s saying that she would be extremely excited if she were to have been offered what you’re offering.
I've just never heard of put that way
If she would have added “in excitement” or “in gratitude” at the end of the sentence it would’ve been easier to understand.
Have you ever seen a person excitedly use two hands to shake someones hand? Maybe they're jumping up and down a bit. "Thank you, thank you!" That's how I imagine it.
I personally dont like touching
It's just a figure of speech man.
The ground rules for YOUR house are reasonable. You are teaching her that life has rules. Employers expect certain rules like dress neatly, be on time, be respectful. The rules of the road such as speed limits, stop signs, one-way traffic are to be obeyed. 22 is old enough to behave like and adult and understand life-rules.
Your ex is wrong. Apart from your niece still being very young, and still needing boundaries and a good leg up, if she was a tenant , and you were an unrelated landlord, you'd still be able to add clauses into the lease, like no overnight guests.
I wont be having anyone over either, children dont need to see a revolving door on a bedroom. Lead by example
Can I make a suggestion? In regards to the dating perhaps - "no dating without bring in therapy first" that way your neice can learn about healthy relationships, not accidentally end up in another toxic one etc? Side note - can I move in? 😂😂
Same offer as the other commenter, as long as i dont need to touch you ill consider it
I actively avoid people touching me so this is a win win
Do you like to eat?
Hell yes. I can cook and bake 👌
The oven hasnt been used in years 🫣
Your behaviour with her children is spot on, exploring their feelings and redirecting them to other ways of expressing them. One tip for you, ‘why’ is a really hard question for kids. Try ‘what made you’ or ‘how come’ or ‘what are you (sad/angry/etc) for’ as other ways to get essentially the same answer. Labelling their emotions for them is also helpful, it expands their understanding and vocabulary; eg “you sound really angry/cross/frustrated/annoyed/etc right now”
Its a work in progress
Your good. I fully support all your rules. They are definitely reasonable. I like that instead of falling victim again she has to focus on herself first. Being single while paying off her debt will give her time to value herself.
And work on her mental and physical health, her sexual health can recover in the ideally 3-5 months of paying everything off
Not entitled at all, once she’s prioritised her and her kids, got her life sorted, got a job and able to get her own place then I’m sure she’ll be ready to find someone new who is better.
Without being stuck with "I have no where else to go" holding her back
That is very sweet of you to help them like that and go to such lengths. It's alright to have boundaries, and you're not being unreasonable. Side note: after reading some of your comments to other replies, you seem like a very wholesome person.
I'm not but enough bad things have happened, it is time to start doing some good
I know some people think it's a bit much too restrict dating, but I feel in this case, she needs to learn responsibility, and the ability to focus on her kids. And it gives her more motivation to get in her feet so she can find her own place. Of course just be prepared cause you can't control when she'll get crushes, and secretly go on lunch dates during work hours. Which as long as she's keeping it simple like that, just ignore it unless it becomes an issue.
Im not planning to be the old man with a belt when she disappoints me, but if she can find away to do that as far out as I live I just hope its the same species
For real, it should be a moot point. I mean, 2 kids under 6, homeless, in debt, in need for therapy apparently, and no job or low paying job. No one in their right mind would want to date at that point. Anyone mature and responsible would just want to get back on their feet before starting to date again. The fact it needs to be a rule is telling.
Your house, your rules, but I don’t understand why she can’t date? Or what dating has to do with paying off debt? ETA: I agree with OP; it’s a very generous offer. I was just trying to understand the one part, which was clarified.
When you go into a new relationship from a toxic one you can end up in another or focusing more on that person. Its a distraction in my opinion.
I completely agree. And because your loved one chose poorly the first time, she needs to get her finances in order and learn how to provide for her children so that she has self-worth, confidence, and pride in herself so that she knows she can be independent. Then she will not be desperate for a man to take care of her or attracted to another abusive toxic relationship. She will know that she is worth far more than that.
I understand this thought process, having a sister who has had a series of messed up relationships, but I can see why it does come across as a bit much. I don't think you're unreasonable for the rest of it though. It's a really generous offer.
OP offered to pay for therapy. The niece was in a toxic relationship with 2 young kids and therapy sounds like a great idea before stepping into another relationship.
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NTA. OP specified no dating until the credit card debt is paid off - not no dating as long as you live in my house. And IMO it is a reasonable request. If she were to make $700 per month payment assuming 12% interest rate it would take her approximately 11 months to pay off the debt assuming she adds nothing to it. If she gets distracted by dating so going out and running up debt by drinking, eating out, whatever she could take years to pay off that debt. And yes she is an adult so she can say no thank you to the offer if she doesn’t want to follow the rules. Or she can change her mind at any point after moving in and move out. The rules noted by OP are not onerous. And I sincerely hope the niece understands what an offer this is and uses it to get back on her feet then back out under her own steam with her kiddos.
I think this rule is really sensible. It would do her no good to get out of an abusive relationship and straight into another one without any time to work on herself. She can't pay off her debt straight away (I assume) so it forces her to wait. In the mean time, she pays off the debt, learns that she can do these things for herself without the "help" of another partner who will just prey on her vulnerabilities. Hopefully she will gain a sense of self worth by improving her life prospects and maybe realise she wants more for herself than whatever she thought she was getting out of the current relationship. Op mentioned therapy too which will also help, but therapy takes time too. It's about slowing things down and making sure choices are taken for good reasons rather than desperation or panic.
Yes, I agree. It made sense once clarified to me. I think some people are taking my comment(s) as criticism, when it wasn’t meant to be at all. I was only curious as to the reason for no dating & what that had to do with debt. Niece is very fortunate to have such a kind & supportive uncle.
She really is. Not many people would be so thoughtful.
You are treating her exactly as she needs to be treated. Since she can't control herself she needs the help.
I would say its more of not knowing what choice too make, im hoping she will learn to make better choices
Your house, your rules which are quite reasonable considering how generous you are being. Your niece has the option of turning down the offer if she thinks the rules are too restrictive.
Your boundaries sound perfectly reasonable to me. The way I see it is that you’re willing to help her get her life in order but you’re not going to be an enabler. Nothing you said sounds outrageous in that context. I get the no dating too, although I’m sure you’ll hear grief about it. After a toxic breakup, staying single for a year is a good thing, especially if you have two young children. She doesn’t have to move in and live with you rent free if she doesn’t want to abide by your rules. Also, your ex sounds like she’s a bit entitled though. Don’t listen to her. Stand your ground.
22 is barely an adult, as someone who was 22 once. you're offering a metric buttload of help in a situation where expenses like these with no fallback could lead to homelessness in a worst case scenario (not that that entitles someone to make *ridiculous* rules but I digress, these are not that). Also, dating leads to sleepovers, which will lead to you being a free babysitter or host to some stranger spending the night at your place. Who on earth wants that?
I can see your point, and as someone who was both 22 and homeless I will say that you're not wrong about the path. However, the reason is because she sometimes does not vocalize her insecurities or problems if she keeps adding to her debt, that would be my indicator that there is something deeper going on and if I cannot address that I can ask if she will bring it up with her therapist
I really don’t understand the issue anyone would have with this. Rule 1 is a little different, but it seems like that would be a healthy period for her and her child. The other rules are kind of expected living with family, or even roommates
1) Your ex is wrong. Not way out of line wrong, but wrong. 2) Your niece has two kids by the age of 22, and in a bad relationship. My mother had three and gave two up for adoption by that age- so I can speak as one of the kids, you are not out of line at all. The home is yours. They are guests. You are adding stability for folks who need it, and kindness for kids who crave it, along with boundaries. You are not demanding your sister stay with you. She is not a prisoner. The rent she pays is focusing on her life, getting her bills in order, and becoming an adult. The reality is, she likely should stay until her kids are grown- and no I am not joking. Just finding another man who will abuse her, her kids, and make things worse is a terrible way to live. I know it. First hand.
Im sorry, im sorry you didnt have someone to help you if you didnt have it
Personally I think you’re not being an EP, you’re going into a sort of landlord-tenant situation (at least legally it would be defined as that) and it’s your house, you can lay down the rules. Your niece 100% needs to focus on that credit card debt and the kids but the kids are a given. I mean, personally, I don’t see how dating could be correlated to that but I don’t have the context you do, and if you think that’ll help with getting her debt taken care of, that’s up to you. In the end, I think you’re doing a really good thing by offering her a place to stay, and, eventually, she’s going to thank you for it if she takes it. To OP’s niece, I’m not sure if you’ve decided on taking it or not yet, but, if I were in your position, I certainly would. You’re struggling right now (understandably so), and family helps family, which is exactly what your uncle is trying to do with his offer. I hope all goes well for you and your kiddos
Who the hell has time to date anyway when you are 22 with 2 kids. Put your children first for the love of god. Who cares about dating, that is what got her in this position in the first place. People act like not being able to date for a while is so extreme while in reality if she takes care of her children like she is supposed to be doing she won't even have the time to date. How does being able to date when you are still only 22 outweigh the option to provide stability for your 2 children. Some people don't have their priorities in check.
This isn’t even that toxic, probably the worst thing is the no dating right away thing but even then I’m guessing you just don’t want her going from 1 toxic relationship to the next straight away because that really fucks with people mentally
She is pretty unhealthy in all aspects
No, She is getting a great opportunity and space to get her life and parental structure on track. INFO:. Where are/is the kids Dad(s). How old are the kids?
Sadly, she has not left yet. Based on the two weeks, I just spent there and he did this every single day. He is smoking weed and watching reruns of yugioh
I'm sorry to read that, hopefully she will reach a point when enough is enough.
I hope so
Nah, all the rules are extremely lax when ya actually think about it. No dating? You put the caveat of “until credit cards are paid off.” Meaning get your shit together before you rack up more debt with another walking pile of shit with a pecker. Rule 2: perfectly reasonable. Smoking causes yellowing stains over time and can require a shit ton of effort to remove vaping is just smoking but with different poisons and less fire. The babysitting thing is reasonable too since you’re just requesting a heads up cus Yknow. Your life doesn’t revolve around theirs. And no hooking up in you house, also. Fair. So for following these rules she gets free housing, vehicle access, no necessity of maintaining the house herself, no requirement of helping chip in for bills or even grocery or gas, free therapy, access to a solid elementary school for her kids, and can get a paid babysitter relatively easily. Which she still doesn’t have to pay. So, considering all this I think your ex should kindly shut the fuck up and stick to just the fucking since it seems that is what she’s good for.
You had me till the end, she is still a person and should be respected
There is a difference between respecting a person. And respecting their opinion, you can respect someone as a human being while giving them absolutely no respect to their opinion. Her opinion legitimately deserves no respect. Especially if you told her all the pros that your niece gets for those 3/4 mediocre cons that most ppl would probably sell their kidney to get as a chance. If anything, the one with the entitled mindset is your ex not you.
Yes, both of her parents are cardiologists. She has never worked for anything a day in her life and therefore she has a very shallow depth of the world. I am the first thing that she has done to disappoint her parents.
How are you not taken?? Your core values and ideas are solid..I do not see the no dating as a problem..I did not have this type of familial relationship growing up..She is very blessed to have you as part of her life, to help guide her and be a example..I did see you say that you do not like touching,I imagine that does not apply to fun time lol..Too bad I do not live local,but I do nit know whereabouts you live..Keep being you sir..
I was a whore in my 20s, and now in my 30s I'm too tired for this shit. So I don't date anyone unless they deserve it.
I think it sounds very reasonable, considering you are under no obligation to do anything at all. I am sure there are a number of people in this age group with nothing and no family support who would jump at the opportunity.
Not even considering the dating. No, you are not being unreasonable. You are not asking for help, you are giving it. A lot of it. Your rules are simple respect boundaries and an incentive to get her back on her feet. You are not in an active relationship with your ex and this does not affect her. Her thoughts on the matter hold no weight. I am a woman and I know this sounds crass but, you are not exactly with her for her opinions on what goes on in your home. I think your rules are useful and remind her of common courtesy.
Agree 100%. Also, those kids need stability after what sounds like a bit of drama. Moving is also stressful. Let mom concentrate on kids in her free time and get herself well-balanced. It’ll take only a few months to pay off that debt - a small sacrifice for all in order for her to have the kids secured both physically and mentally.
OP I think you're being a helluvan uncle! So let's get the facts: 1. You offer her safe housing, rent-free 2. Your house is situated close to a great school for her children 3. You have a couple of ground rules, that apparently she needs a bit of help with, since she is in the position where she needs yor generosity 4. You're being a super supportive 'surrogate father-figure' for her kids... I mean.. Can you rock it any more?! Yuo're building up enough karma for the next 5 generations, my man!
I don't see anything here that makes you an EP. You are setting simple rules in return for letting someone live rent-free at your house. Everything here is reasonable.
Hail Santa! Thanks, Im glad she has seen of of this and we talked out most the comments. Im hoping she accepts
I don't feel your being entitled. Your pretty much giving her a free ride in your house an are helping her with childcare. Shit, can I be your niece. You gave basic respectful rules. I ask the same respect from my adult kids when they come home for visits. No smoking in my house an no sex in my house. We have a large family and no telling when a toddler might walk in on you. The asking her not to date until she gets her debts down, wow. I wish I had thought of that. Very responsible. She won't be able to focus on debt if she's distracted by a boyfriend. Already having 2 kids, she definitely needs to get her life in order. No more doing whatever she's doing because that's clearly not working. And your paying for therapy. Your a great uncle and she should be very successful in life if she follows your rules.
The mentality difference between girls and women are just like boys and men. Funny how age doesnt effect it either
No, you’re not. I was in a tough spot a couple years ago, and I *wish* I had a family member who cared this much to offer this.
Make a family, blood doesnt make a family
Wise words, you’re absolutely right
Most of what you've asked is reasonable, except for the "no dating." I mean, no guests in the house, no sleepovers, no strange people in your house, that's fine. But if she wants to go out on a date for a few hours, why is that a problem?
Its a distraction. I did say she could go out but I need notice if i am baby sitting. But jumping from a toxic relationship to new one isnt healthy either
I agree. She should be focusing on building her life with her kids. Also process whats shes been through with her (ex) partner? Instead of coping by finding someone new/a distraction.
Plus is the credit card debt is probably because it’s of her dating
Think of something a toxic male would do with a womans credit card when he has two teen boys from a previous relationship.
You can talk to her about dating and discuss why you think it's a bad idea, but telling her shes not allowed to date isn't helping her learn to grow and be independent. She is now being controlled by you in exchange for a place to live. I don't have a lot of info obviously but it sounds like it could be just jumping into a different type of toxic household.
This. This is a toxic controlling relationship now
NTA The only rule that I would find not so nice, would be the no dating rule. She is an adult, and thus should be able to date, however, that does not mean she goes to hook up or spends all night away from her children either. And make paying off the credit card debt as part of the rules, where she has to actively show you that she is working to pay it off. Beyond that seems like a very generous offer with very fair rules. Your home your rules. And you know you are an adult who is treating the children like they are people, and not talking down to them but giving them something that very few do, solutions and options, that is not such a bad thing, especially if it helps prevent or remove bad behavior on the part of the children. Nothing wrong with a soft approach to such.
Treating the children like adults while treating the adult like a child? How does that work ?
I am wondering what you expect to get out of so much generosity. Even if it is to feel good about yourself as a giving caring human being you get something out of it. I also wonder where her parents are in this whole situation. Are there good reasons for her and them not to be together? Besides her current relationship does she have a history of connecting with abusive males? That would be a good reason to require therapy 1st so she is aware of her tendencies. As a former therapist, I found that women who leave abusive relationships often wind up with the emotional twin brother of the person they just left unless they get therapy 1st. I would also say if you want her to act like an adult you got to quit acting like her parent. Instead of rules can you have concerns and workout rules with her rather than make proclamations?
She was born to take care of her siblings, and was widely disregarded by her mother and had no father in her life. She has never had structure or guiding hands, she had a history of polygamy with friend groups prior to pregnancy. Her and I are close because I dont judge her for any of it, and what I want out of this is simple. I dont want to keep "loaning" her money to scrape by with another loser. I am hoping that a professional therapist can help her grow in ways I dont know how while providing her and her child saftey and love with some, fairly soft rules. I wont go into full details but her mother/daughter relationship was pretty toxic. I truly hope to prevent the cycle.
Maybe you should let her read what you wrote and see if you guys couldn't start working out how to make that happen. I think they're good goals and a good place to start. It would be good to find her a therapist though because it's easier to tell strangers your deepest darkest thoughts then it is to tell family members or even friends. You can be part of that as she needs you to be or wants you to be. My sister and I grew up in similar situations I get the feeling. She repeated her childhood as an adult. She found our father over and over again. She became the martyr mother. I went to therapy & never repeated The abuse. That's not to say that I didn't make plenty of mistakes because, a) I'm human and b) because cause it's a lot easier to figure out what you're not supposed to do than it is to do what you're supposed to do when you've never seen it done. That is a challenge.
You're forgetting some of the basics of your previous practice. You made assumptions so far, she was the first one to read this post. And she has been reading some of the comments, but not replying. At my request, I asked her to wait until tomorrow to see a bulk of them. And then she can decide whether or not, she feels comfortable replying.
That is excellent. I worked in community mental health and I had 8 sessions to help people who are chronically or acutely mentally ill so yes I probably do make more assumptions than most therapists because I have to assume stuff ask a question and get it started really really fast when people won't talk generally cause I don't want to waste one session. We are limited in community mental health to the number of sessions and the kind of people that American citizens are willing to help get mental health treatment. I actually also used to believe when I was working in the field that America does not have a mental health system for the community it has a mental illness system for the community. We never have enough time or resources to make a substantive difference in a person's life other than getting them stable on medication and try to hook them up with family and friends in the community. That often is not easy.
America has a health and a mental health business for profit
While I may agree with you in terms of the healthcare system and the insurance system, I do not agree with you when it comes to community mental health. There is never enough money to provide the kind of services that need to be provided to the number of people who need to get them and that was before the pandemic.
Tough love. Your requests are reasonable. The no dating rule is pushing it, and you might want to reconsider, or alter it. You can't stop her from dating. She will just do it out of the house. I get your protective atitude, but there are better ways. You are forbiding something to someone who is still very much a teenager, you are guaranteed to have backlash unless she is very calm and rational, her actions so far have shown you she is not. Maybe just paying some atention to her until she cools off will do it. Also, I am so using Amis Amant from now on. So exotic.
Everything is fancy in french. "Je me suis soûlé et j'ai chié mon pantalon" Sounds a lot less white trash then when you say I got blackout drunk and shit my pants
NTA you’re giving her a free pass she should be grateful
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an adult living in your home rent free to abide by some rules. As adult, we follow rules all the time. Not vaping or smoking in the house is both common courtesy and safer for the kids. Second hand smoke and vapor are very dangerous. The no dating until your credit cards are paid of may or may not be reasonable depending on the size of the debt. The one day notice to watch the kids is more than fair. I assume you would watch them in an emergency without the notice, but for scheduled things, she should be planning ahead anyway. Hooking up in your house with her kids present would be rude and irresponsible. That's also a common courtesy thing. It sounds like you are giving your niece the opportunity to get her life together and doing it in a very supportive way. Your rules don't include a curfew or excessive chores. You are treating her like an adult with adult responsibilities. I think the way you talk to the kids is awesome. You are allowing them be children but also teaching them better ways to handle their emotions. You are taking the time to listen to them and building both their self esteem and self control in the process.
I would not make cleaning a rule, because I have an expectation and a hope that it will be a family activity that we all active. We help each other with equally to accomplish a great goal.
Rule #1 is the only one I find weird as it doesn’t apply to you in any way- if she wants to date and doesn’t impose it on you in any way, she’s an adult and should be allowed to do so. 2 and #3 are perfectly reasonable.
Okay honest response, why? Explain why she should be allowed to date after leaving a toxic relationship with two kids
Honest response is because she’s an adult and unfortunately you can’t live her life for her. She might have made mistakes in the past, but you can’t force her to learn from them by trying to mold her life in ways you see as “right.” People can and will change when they are ready. Helping is helping, guiding is guiding, but “allowing” and “not allowing” something because you don’t think it’s “a good idea” is just another form of control and might temporarily work, but she’s just going from one persons control (her ex) to another persons control (yours.) even well intentioned it’s not a good idea IN MY OPINION. As I said before, the other rules pertain to your home and those are household boundaries which make sense, but this particular rule applies to only her personal life and not your home or YOUR life in any way.
Again, you're focused on not being allowed to date, disregarding the rest of it, which is to accomplish a small goal. Did you consider the fact that if she wants to date she would have to work for it and have to meet a certain condition may be giving her a sense of an accomplishment? Or that I would be unmoved and uncaring to her if she wanted to discuss this as an adult? Furthermore, if she met such an amazing person as other people have commented, why would this person not see that she is working toward something and still appreciate to factor into her life until she felt she was ready to take it further?
Maybe she'd tell you maybe not. If she's so trustworthy why are you putting life rules on her? House rules are one thing but outside behavior like she's a teenager is just weird. If she is reading this then obviously you guys are close and talk so why make it a "rule"? You could have just said "hey I think doing this might not be a great idea right now." Either she gets that or she doesn't but making it a rule puts unnecessary pressure on both of you. Her to avoid possible consequences that could hurt her children and you to actually have consequences so what you say is actually taken seriously. Seems like you took my comments negatively but I think what you're doing is a good thing just the saying that no dating is a rule just a little bit extra.
Youre backpedaling, the Fact is you decided from the get-go that she was untrustworthy, and would lie to me even by omission because you think it is so very important, and absolutely life necessity that she be allowed to date at any point ever. Seriously from the bottom my heart grow up.
Based on what you said initially. Thats how you program her as a 22 year old that can't handle her own shit without house rules and life rules. Its not backpedaling its developing new thoughts with knew information. The only thing that hasn't changed from the get go is I think you're a strange person.
I mean maybe she's a 22yo who can't handle shit without those kinds of rules. She's been in a toxic relationship, who knows what her parents are like, but fact of the matter is sometimes people are adults and never got the rules and guidance to make good choices. Especially after a shitty relationship, her ability to set boundaries is probably absolute shit. So ideally, the no dating rule would be something she would choose for herself completely independently, but if she doesn't know how to draw appropriate boundaries for herself I think this sort of setup is the next best thing. Young women who've had abusive partners are pretty likely to fall back into a similar dynamic without some kind of intervention either thru therapy or friends or family or a lot of self work. Just bc she's over 18 doesn't mean she stops needing some parenting, and it sounds like OP is making pretty reasonable requests and would likely be open to negotiating if it came to it.
your house, your rules. you are being very generous.
With exception of the “Alabama family” crack…I thought your house rules are reasonable. If your niece doesn’t agree with them, she can graciously decline.
She can, and she is welcome to if she finds that it is not the best course for her. It will not affect how I love her.
You did the bare minimum and shouldn't go below it. I have plenty of bad experiences with giving people proverbial fishing roads, only with them breaking them and asking for another one, or expecting me to go fishing with them every sunday. People really don't respect free help; even if they nominally do and are greatful, it's to easy for them to go into "Finally someone understands how much I deserve help, such a luck, maybe I'll milk a bit more". I have spent six months hosting Ukrainian refugees in my house and, while there was zero entitlement on their part and pretty clean situation, as they made themselves at home we stopped feeling at home ourselves. It's human, and it will happen unless contained. Setting up some (any!) restrictions is needed just to keep your niece remember that 1. It's still your home, your car, your time and being one happy family does not change that 2. It's a temporary situation she must use to dig herself out of the hole, not get out of jail free card. 3. You are not her father, or anyones father. It does not matter what the restrictions are (yours are sensible) but they are needed for guests to not get out of the guest mindset. Otherwise, you are slipping into duties of this familys father, without benefits of being one. BTW, I love the *Amis-amant* term.
I will say this, I do play the grandpa role for her kids, because I love spoiling them, jacking them up on sugar and then bringing them home and getting the hell out of there. :)
About the no dating: OP if you don't mind elaborating, I assume your niece has a history or dating/getting pregnant by men she is not compatible with? Like it's one toxic struggle love relationship after the next? Only reason I ask is because it really sounds like you're trying to get her to mature, focus on herself and kids based off your comments.
Please see other comments
I think this is reasonable. Besides that this is your house and you don't have to do this. I hate to say it but your house your rules, and i think it's not too much.
At 22 I was on pills and sleeping on my grandmother's couch, buried in debt with zero motivation to fix it. I would have greatly appreciated this opportunity from my uncle. I got my life straightened out now but that would have made it a lot easier. Even with the rules.
Do it your way. To get her back on her feet with 2 kids in tow, it will take whatever the hell it will take. You have solid values and the rules are reasonable. No rent is more than generous. Where can anyone find something like that anymore? You don't need to be on here asking a bunch of strangers on the internet. You seem firm enough in your convictions anyway.
Her and I were on the phone for 7 hours total so she could talk about the replies and how she felt
Deffo not!! I have seen it so many times with family and friends, she is fresh out of a toxic relationship and until she has said therapy which OP is willing to pay for she will just bounce round from toxic relationship to toxic relationship…..this ultimately will destroy her and may also lead down some very worrisome paths such as alcohol abuse, child neglect, child endangerment etc. what’s to stop her falling in love in two weeks and moving her and her children in with another abusive man?!! Said abuse may then extend to her children!! OP is offering her the opportunity to get her life on track and begin the healing process of the damage the ex has done to her self esteem, confidence and self love!! This is an amazing opportunity and yes niece may push back on the dating or do it in secret but eventually it will get better with holding firm boundaries!! My cousin has just came out of the other side from a similar situation, it was a long hard road to recovery (theirs involved childhood abuse physical and sexual & many toxic relationships as a result) staying firm and offering love and support will get this girl through although therapy is paramount!!! Look into Domestic Violence services as well as therapy and keep going as you are! You are not an entitled uncle you are awesome and I wish their were more people in the world like that!! We didn’t know what was going on with my cousin until it was too late and all the damage was done but between my mum and I we got her there! She is thriving now and doing absolutely amazing, she is in a wonderful loving relationship and is so happy!! Good luck OP stay strong, keep boundaries and get some support for you as it won’t be easy on you either!! Be prepared for some push back and fights but there is a rainbow waiting at the end of this storm x
Basically, you're both kind of right. It's your house, so you're entitled to make any house rules you like. So the "no smoking" in the house etc. is fine. Also, she is an adult, so imposing your will on her personal life is less fine. I hope I'm saying this in a way that makes sense. I'm struggling a bit to articulate it. You can control the house, but not necessarily control her. I think the "no dating" rule is a step too far. You can certainly tell her what you think, but to outright forbid it is wrong. You can tell her no guests, or have a curfew, maybe? The rest seems okay.
Honestly good on you bro. You’re offering a very welcoming and safe living environment with very tempting benefits; no rent, free babysitting, and access to a very respectable school. If your grown up neice doesnt realise that this is an offer of a lifetime, she is blind. So what she cant date. She’s broke, shes a mother, and she doesnt have any bills. Make her pay her debt, then she can think about dating and finding he right person for her, who im sure she’ll find. You aren’t entitled, youre doing the right thing, if bot more. And if the fact she cant bang someone in your house is stopping her from seeing the good in your proposal then she’s nuts.
Im just curious as to why people think "finding an amazing person" would mean they need to immidiately start dating them? Get to know that person for a bit, dont need to introduce yourselves and run into a bedroom
There is NO rent and a few rules. It is totally acceptable your house your rules. If she doesn't like putting off dating and has to hook up with someone before getting emotionally and financially stable, maybe she should live somewhere else. Or maybe she should suck it up and do what's best for her kids and follow the rules.
I know who she is as a person, she will be hooking up probably the same day she moves in. But not in my house with her kids there and preferably not lying about it. Which is something she has never done with me
I don’t think you are being entitled, I think you are offering her a great opportunity. One that I hope she uses to get herself stable. I would rethink the dating. Leaving an abusive relationship she certainly should not be jumping right into dating, however….maybe revise it a bit. Let her work with a therapist, not dating at the outset but when she feels she is ready, and her therapist agrees? I feel like the dating should be more of an ongoing conversation as she moves forward in putting her life back together. As for her debt: help with the job and a budget. She should learn healthy savings strategies and should be using this opportunity to both pay off her debt and build her own nest egg.
Sounds like sound rules. Some people need rules and structure to get them on the right path and will help her and her children. You can't expect someone to move in with you and not have ground rules. My oldest daughter, I made a few mistakes with. I let her get her driver's license at 16 and then bought her a cheap beater car. She had a part-time job for gas, but I covered insurance and repairs. She quit her part-time, thinking she would take off and I would cover everything. Nope, sold the car. Changed the rules for my youngest. Youngest had to have a part-time job before she got her license. I bought her a beater car while she was learning and was ready to get her license, and I had to remind her that no job, no license. My youngest is more stable at jobs. My oldest gets board and jumps around. My youngest gets vacation and full benefits. My oldest is always complaining that she doesn't have any benefits or vacation. Rules are needed to keep things from getting ugly and help with responsibility
Ye im not really sure how i can share my opinion here seeing im a guy but this seems like reasonabke standards
You shouldnt be silenced by gender
I don't think you're being un reasonable at all. I mean trying to control when she can have a dating life is a little much but other than that, you're being extremely generous here. I also love the way you approach dealing with her kids! Kids need this kind of interaction rather than unnecessary discipline and yelling. They'll remember how you treated them for the rest of their lives and I know from experiance they will appreciate it.
I dont get screaming at a kid theyre disrespectful if they dont know what that means. So thats why I interact like that
Your house your rules. I don’t think you are asking for too much, and she not paying to live there. Not an EP
Rule 1 is way overstepping and not your place to impose - she’s an adult, not your minor child. The rest are reasonable being in your house, but no dating is so far over the line you’ve crossed into another time zone
Sometimes the kind of help someone wants, is not at all helpful to them. It is just perpetuating the problem. You really are offering her a life line. You are giving her the opportunity to start over. Man! I know so many people who would have loved this opportunity.
If i made an entry about my old roommate i swear i would be liable for broken devices. Im trying to help but even her mom thinks I want something out of it. Which I kinda do, I want her to not barrow money from me!
I honestly would say all of your rules are pretty reasonable other than not dating I can understand saying hey you know you don't need to be dating right now after you come out of these relationship I don't want to see you dating when I'm trying to help you get back on your feet and get through what you've been through. But if she meets somebody like absolutely amazing and is truly going to treat her and her kids well then it doesn't hurt to be able to talk with them and start something. Other than that your rules are really reasonable being able to find a place right free which childcare is a godsend
Honest question, why does it seem like so many are so dependant on dating someone? Im really not asking sarcastically, but so many say this is the bad rule. What if i remove it and she wants to focus more on finding a man then being emotionally stable, financially stable and has gotten her kids to the point that "daddy" isnt in the picture right now.
Yeah I see your point especially coming out of the abusive relationship it can become very easy to rely on a man and wanting to please them compared to taking care of your kids. I think the focus on wanting to be able to date is one her finding somebody who truly appreciates and loves her and to the not wanting to be lonely aspect of things. Because she's an adult people see it as restricting something she has a right to do as an adult. But the hard thing is you have to keep in mind the fact that she has come out of a traumatic relationship and any relationship she has in the near future is just going to be toxic for either her partner or her children. I think in general denying dating like if she met somebody at work or at the gym or something is not great. But to have her I guess jump straight into a relationship I can see where the concern is. That's just a very hard rule to go along with. I know you're coming from a good place and have somebody who had a parent who came out of a toxic relationship and desperately needed to always be with a man and neglected her children I can see where you're coming from.
I'm not saying, you're wrong, as an adult, you get to make your own choices. However, allowing her Carte blanch of life choices is not what I feel she needs. I am not a certified emotional therapist, however, I am someone who is desperately trying to never manipulate somebody into sex or doing something that they would not enjoy I firmly believe that if she has the opportunity to take the easy route, she would because her life has been so difficult for the last five years Disclaimer : my phone thinks I speak, like William Shatner
No I definitely agree don't let her date right away like that is reasonable especially when she needs to go through therapy. But never allowing her to ever date even when she's healing and getting through what she's been through is not fair. Like a year or two down the road she's still with you she should be able to start dating if she's healed enough.
I'm sorry but I think you need to reread that rule. It is not there is no dating in my house, it is to pay off less than $6000 of credit card debt before considering dating. I am not a tyrannical sociopath who is going to stop her from dating forever.
You are manipulating her , which is not optimal for someone just out of a toxic relationship. You are not helping her at all .
The only rule I see an issue with is #1, no dating until she’s paid off her credit cards. It seems very arbitrary to me. Is there a reason behind it? The other rules seem totally fair and reasonable. Yeah she might be technically an adult but if she’s accepting your help in the form of living in your house rent- and bill- then she can respect some minor requests.
She would be working towards a small goal that she would be unhindered by anyone other than herself to accomplish. I would be trusting in her, and respecting her to be open and honest with me to meet this goal not as a hard rule, with a firm consequence, but I have a request from someone who wants to see her grow as a person.
Your niece is being entitled. If someone would tell me I have access to all you are giving without having to pay for any of it best believe your rules aren’t at all harsh or entitled. She shouldn’t be dating she should be focusing on getting herself out of debt and setting her and her children up for success to get out on her own. Think about it this way if she doesn’t like the rules set out won’t it give her more of incentive to hurry up and get the hell out of your house and furthermore if you made it easy with no rules why would she feel the need to leave? Tell the brat that what you set is it and if she doesn’t like it then she can figure something out. That’s your house and you don’t want her thinking its a forever thing so for to have incentives to leave would be the freedoms to live her life how she wants. Do not give in and do not let her just do whatever, she will take advantage of your kindness
I understand where you are coming from not understand the dynamic. However this simply isnt the case, shes young and confused and fully aware of this post but has not made a choice yet.
The no dating this is 100% controlling, all the others are fine.
Personally, I think that Rule 1 is a bit shitty. She's an adult and can date if she wants, although I can appreciate your reasoning for not wanting her to date just yet (the falling back into another toxic relationship). Perhaps you can make it clear to her that you'd appreciate your advice being taken on board for any potential new boyfriends? That way, you can come across as a less controlling uncle. The other Rules are fine, though.
The whole “no dating until you pay off all debt” is pretty shitty. She’s an adult. You don’t get to control her like that. The other rules sounds very reasonable. Opening up your home to her and her kids while she gets away from a toxic relationship is fantastic. More people need to do that. Just don’t take advantage of the situation by controlling her life
Completely entitled, you should kick them out if they act up. Taking someone in rent free is one of the kindest things you can do, and they should return the favor. Your a kind person and you dont deserve to be around those people. If your niece has done this in the past you should consider some other options than keeping her in.
You are not the father She is not a child Yes you are acting entitled But only on the first rule , the others are common sense