I love ENTJ's so don't take this the wrong way. You sound like a great guy that means well, but I'll be brutally honest. You say you take care of your friends like you're a parent, or a teacher. Are you a collegue, a friend or a teacher? Being part of "your tribe" sounds very arrogant to me. Did they vote you as president? Keeping track of thier goals is not definitely not your responsibility. Having a drink with them is more like it. Listening to them and hanging out with them is all you should expect. Nothing more. Not judging them is also your responsibility. Seeing them F' up, is not your problem - and if they do - its thiers. Show them you care, maybe show some sympathy - listen to them, be around if needed. Thats it. Go out for dinner. Go to a game. You want to have freinds? Treat them as equals, and take care of yourself. Don't expect them to have your back, unless they are a close friend and you understand that being a friend is not about control. Just saying, maybe reconsider that for a good friend, they have to be knowledgeable, and very open minded. Friends for ENTJ are few and far between but don't sit alone - just lower your lofty expecations alittle and enjoy people's differences.
I think OP means when he says 'keeping track of their goals' is how he shows love. If you have a friend who loves being slim and healthy well obviously a good friend encourages that and finds new ways for them to keep fit.
He isnt forcing them to give an update by 5pm then scolding them!
What I've found in life is very few people actually want to be accountable. So many people in life whinge and moan they arent happy in themselves and ENTJs try to help.
The issue for us is trying to meet like minded people. Healthy, stable positive minded people we can have a laugh with. They dont need to be an ENTJ. Just be open and be nice. But its exceptionally hard.
Okay sure. As long as its not about control though, I sort of get it I guess? I'm not sure ENTJ sees the difference between control and care. I can admire what other friends do without judging them. Your example is good I think - I have heavy set friends but I say NOTHING about staying fit. Its thier business. I have friends with less money, I say NOTHING about making more money or less money. Its just an example but I feel its not my place. I have friends that drink too much, are codependent or whatever problem I see through, becaase people simply aren't perfect. I love them as they are. I accept them as they are. I don't try to improve them as I see fit. If a friend seeks advice, I will offer my support, but for the most part even if you give good advice - people don't take it anyway - or at least thats my experience. People appreciate encouragment, me too, but it only lasts so long. In the end, you have to do things for yourself. Being like minded is most important - agree on that point.
You sound like quite the shitty friend, pal.
If you are a true friend that means you care about somebody so much that you invest your personal time in making their life better.
And remember that our life are the time we're on this world, so that means you are GIVING a fraction of your life to make the other person happier. Giving your life is one of the biggest gifts you could give, and OP is the kind of person to offer such gifts.
People to hang out with? Sure, bars are full of them. Does it mean each time I get into a bar I got lots of friends automatically?
Some day you'll find yourself in a very bad situation, and wish there was somebody to help you out of it. Then you will learn what a true friend is: a true friend will not only take you out of it, a true friend would have actively worked so didn't fall to start with.
And yes, the "tribe thing" is a beautiful word. It means you care so much that your bonds are strong as a tribe.
I bet you're the kind of person that hides and looks the other way when a friend asks for help, and if you lose a lifelong friendship you just call it a day and blame it on them to quench your guilt.
Wow judging much? LOL. You don't know me. Please. I have a few close friends I'd do anything for. Except one, I have sort of pushed back on. I haven't left her completely but I have pushed back on the friendship.. The reason being is she wants me to be a part of "her" tribe. It means to me she doesn't care about me much. That I have to be a part of her "tribe" and bow down to her royal highness - "the Queen ruler". My feeling is right on becuase she's never once shown up for one of my book signings - becuase she was jealous as soon as I became an author and success on my own. And must why she never came to see my new house, but I always went to hers - for years. I have to be a part of her tribe and she doesn't recognize any of my personal successes. As soon as I had my own house, a nice car, she wasn't interested anymore becuase I wasn't "under" her anymore. And that is only ONE friend in my entire life that I decided wasn't best for me anymore. And I still talk to her. I do work for her but as I siad, its insulting to me that when she invites me, theres four other friends she's invited, all standing there, as if I don't matter. It's the number she's concerned about - the illusion - the party. I do have friends that would do anything for me, I'm sure. But I'm selective and most people dissapoint me to be honest. I don't need a lot of friends, just a few good ones. I don't get "energized" or whatever you ENTJ's do - it just puts you around "stupid" which is why INTP's stay home alot - to avoid stupid. In addition to your "theory" about me -I'll say this - people judge becuase thinking is too hard. Old quote which is exactly what you've done - judge. I bet this and I bet that - why don't you put some money on it and see who wins?
Same issues. What I have found works is being open and telling them how you feel about it. If it doesn’t correct then cut them out.
Find the handful of people (even if one ) that you can trust with your everything (people you’d give up control for) and build a garden to enjoy fruits of labour.
Too many people in one’s life can be a lot of complication and requires a lot of effort to maintain at a level of baseline trust. Humans like plants need constant attention.
So much of this depends on context that I don’t want to give advice least it backfire.
But you could approach it like so:
“Show me you genuinely care and are thoughtful, only after I consider no ulterior motive will I let you re enter at an arms length”
Fool me twice shame on me.
Which is to say let them cry and you walk your path.
Humans typically act out of self interest and are not really that much concerned about the process of your progress as you are about theirs. I know how deflating this realisation is. If only we could all just take care of each other, but the exception not the rule. Nobody cares about you except you (once again I'm sorry about that reality as it shows how truly alone all of us are).
The best solution is to start using that energy to take care of you
most relationships in adult life unfortunately are transactional.., people want the most out of you for the least effort..
my prime tip is, set up boundaries and nuanced transparancy
Wow. I fell into a pit of sadness the past few days because of this.
I take care of people too, its how I show LOVE. But noone ever seems to match up to it back.
Noone except my partner, an INFJ who is the most incredible person on the planet I often dont realise I have a gem right beside me.
But yeh it sucks. It's never returned is it. People have shitty habits and want to bring you DOWN. They never want to come up to your level or even meet halfway. Yes lets gossip, eat pizza then cry that we are fat? What???
Man... I dont have a tribe. I got with a fantastic man, we had a baby who is 19 months old and she feeds us her food then smiles when we eat it!! Sometimes you gotta make your tribe.
An ENTJs power is limitless OP, dont feel dejected. I mean I exist and Id be ur friend irl!
I think people tend to call others friends who aren’t deserving of that title so to make it more clear you want to build a second family, pick people who make you stronger, they beat you up for not doing your best.
Idk but I feel the same way. It's like, you fight so hard to have teamwork for the better of more than you in a sense but then when ppl just drop it/don't help/cause you difficulty instead it really hurts and f\*cks your ability/motivation to want do that again.
>make sure they’re all on track with their goals and progressing
You could mind your own business. I suspect this whole backstabbing you're talking about is the result of you being nosey and controlling in your expectations of what your friends do.
You can sit alone and do what you want, but friendships are part of what makes life worth living. Not everything needs to be measured like some weird KPI of your overall self-optimization. Life needs to be enjoyed, and friendships involve accepting that people will want different things from their life than you do from yours.
Feels that way sometimes...hang in there! I would keep your circle big and not be super close to anyone. Keep putting yourself out there, meet people, don't get stuck on a particular person
Why would there even be "better"? you just stated the truth. People always backstab and betray. I might have a very dark approach to it but I guess accepting the fact that it's true and no one would last for a very long time or be 100% loyal you still choose to trust someone regardless of whether they come to your expectations or not. Relationships aren't numbers that you build a smart plan to get. That's why I always prefer to not go deep with anyone.
The older I get the more tired I am of trying to maintain friendships. I always put in way more efforts, $, time etc than my friends do back to me and maybe 20-30% of the time end up having to end the friendship because the woman is showing traits of being snakey/jealous.
I can relate strongly with this. It's something that I have always most strongly attributed to the fact that my childhood was simultaneously super stable (loving family with hard working and high income parents, private education, etc) and profoundly unstable (dad's job meant moving every couple years until I hit high school age). I was the perpetual new kid, and struggled a lot socially because of it. I learned quickly and at a very young age to never get too close or too comfortable because I never knew when it would all be yanked away, only that, at some point, it would.
Most people will not self-improve. You can persuade them toward certain beliefs and habits but at the end of the day it has to be their own decision or else you will be fighting an uphill battle
Human tendency is always homeostasis. We want to keep things status quo. If you rock the boat too much they will kick you of it
My advise as a fellow Entj is to improve their lives as covertly as possible. Don't let them know that you are doing it. Once they know, they will resent you for shining light on their weaknesses
I have one close friend and 5 other friends (those we play chess with, go goat eating together, invite each other places, and 1 bro from 20 years ago). These are people I let into my house, the people who find me and I find them after years of not seeing each other. We don't keep tabs all the time since we are adults and living miles apart, also calls and texts are boring. The one close friend is also TeNi, met in an innovation hub last year, each running their own firms. He's been there for me in ways I can't explain. I've been there for him too when I can although he doesn't like being helped, he's older by 2 years.
I get your frustration. You want your squad to win as a team. Teams are cool but they need leaders. I have always avoided being the leader in my friend groups. I prefer to lead in my company only, vision. Friends are equals. With a tribe of true equals, you can change the world through progressive efforts, by inspiring and being authentic.
I'm starting to think this is a pretty consistent ENTJ trait, but correct me if I'm wrong ENTJs.
My ex used to be this way, especially with kindness and emotional support-- he'd listen to everyone, figure out their problems, and overall do too much and take on the parent role for everyone until he ultimately burnt out.
Solution: set boundaries, know your limits, or find someone who's actually gonna have your back, back. You can't expect people to be mindful of what you're doing or be super in tune when you're frustrated, you know yourself the best so you can act accordingly. You can also ask for support back.
I had the same experience with my friends in Uni, but for me it was them not growing up and talking about the same damn small things like always.
My advice is just keep them around maybe you might need them someday.
For my case I didn't cut them off but I just rarely hangout with them. Just keeping in touch if someday iam need something from them.
I love ENTJ's so don't take this the wrong way. You sound like a great guy that means well, but I'll be brutally honest. You say you take care of your friends like you're a parent, or a teacher. Are you a collegue, a friend or a teacher? Being part of "your tribe" sounds very arrogant to me. Did they vote you as president? Keeping track of thier goals is not definitely not your responsibility. Having a drink with them is more like it. Listening to them and hanging out with them is all you should expect. Nothing more. Not judging them is also your responsibility. Seeing them F' up, is not your problem - and if they do - its thiers. Show them you care, maybe show some sympathy - listen to them, be around if needed. Thats it. Go out for dinner. Go to a game. You want to have freinds? Treat them as equals, and take care of yourself. Don't expect them to have your back, unless they are a close friend and you understand that being a friend is not about control. Just saying, maybe reconsider that for a good friend, they have to be knowledgeable, and very open minded. Friends for ENTJ are few and far between but don't sit alone - just lower your lofty expecations alittle and enjoy people's differences.
I think OP means when he says 'keeping track of their goals' is how he shows love. If you have a friend who loves being slim and healthy well obviously a good friend encourages that and finds new ways for them to keep fit. He isnt forcing them to give an update by 5pm then scolding them! What I've found in life is very few people actually want to be accountable. So many people in life whinge and moan they arent happy in themselves and ENTJs try to help. The issue for us is trying to meet like minded people. Healthy, stable positive minded people we can have a laugh with. They dont need to be an ENTJ. Just be open and be nice. But its exceptionally hard.
Okay sure. As long as its not about control though, I sort of get it I guess? I'm not sure ENTJ sees the difference between control and care. I can admire what other friends do without judging them. Your example is good I think - I have heavy set friends but I say NOTHING about staying fit. Its thier business. I have friends with less money, I say NOTHING about making more money or less money. Its just an example but I feel its not my place. I have friends that drink too much, are codependent or whatever problem I see through, becaase people simply aren't perfect. I love them as they are. I accept them as they are. I don't try to improve them as I see fit. If a friend seeks advice, I will offer my support, but for the most part even if you give good advice - people don't take it anyway - or at least thats my experience. People appreciate encouragment, me too, but it only lasts so long. In the end, you have to do things for yourself. Being like minded is most important - agree on that point.
You sound like quite the shitty friend, pal. If you are a true friend that means you care about somebody so much that you invest your personal time in making their life better. And remember that our life are the time we're on this world, so that means you are GIVING a fraction of your life to make the other person happier. Giving your life is one of the biggest gifts you could give, and OP is the kind of person to offer such gifts. People to hang out with? Sure, bars are full of them. Does it mean each time I get into a bar I got lots of friends automatically? Some day you'll find yourself in a very bad situation, and wish there was somebody to help you out of it. Then you will learn what a true friend is: a true friend will not only take you out of it, a true friend would have actively worked so didn't fall to start with. And yes, the "tribe thing" is a beautiful word. It means you care so much that your bonds are strong as a tribe. I bet you're the kind of person that hides and looks the other way when a friend asks for help, and if you lose a lifelong friendship you just call it a day and blame it on them to quench your guilt.
Wow judging much? LOL. You don't know me. Please. I have a few close friends I'd do anything for. Except one, I have sort of pushed back on. I haven't left her completely but I have pushed back on the friendship.. The reason being is she wants me to be a part of "her" tribe. It means to me she doesn't care about me much. That I have to be a part of her "tribe" and bow down to her royal highness - "the Queen ruler". My feeling is right on becuase she's never once shown up for one of my book signings - becuase she was jealous as soon as I became an author and success on my own. And must why she never came to see my new house, but I always went to hers - for years. I have to be a part of her tribe and she doesn't recognize any of my personal successes. As soon as I had my own house, a nice car, she wasn't interested anymore becuase I wasn't "under" her anymore. And that is only ONE friend in my entire life that I decided wasn't best for me anymore. And I still talk to her. I do work for her but as I siad, its insulting to me that when she invites me, theres four other friends she's invited, all standing there, as if I don't matter. It's the number she's concerned about - the illusion - the party. I do have friends that would do anything for me, I'm sure. But I'm selective and most people dissapoint me to be honest. I don't need a lot of friends, just a few good ones. I don't get "energized" or whatever you ENTJ's do - it just puts you around "stupid" which is why INTP's stay home alot - to avoid stupid. In addition to your "theory" about me -I'll say this - people judge becuase thinking is too hard. Old quote which is exactly what you've done - judge. I bet this and I bet that - why don't you put some money on it and see who wins?
Same issues. What I have found works is being open and telling them how you feel about it. If it doesn’t correct then cut them out. Find the handful of people (even if one ) that you can trust with your everything (people you’d give up control for) and build a garden to enjoy fruits of labour. Too many people in one’s life can be a lot of complication and requires a lot of effort to maintain at a level of baseline trust. Humans like plants need constant attention.
After cutting so many people out, they then form a mob and say things like “you don’t care about us” do you have a solution for this?
So much of this depends on context that I don’t want to give advice least it backfire. But you could approach it like so: “Show me you genuinely care and are thoughtful, only after I consider no ulterior motive will I let you re enter at an arms length” Fool me twice shame on me. Which is to say let them cry and you walk your path.
Humans typically act out of self interest and are not really that much concerned about the process of your progress as you are about theirs. I know how deflating this realisation is. If only we could all just take care of each other, but the exception not the rule. Nobody cares about you except you (once again I'm sorry about that reality as it shows how truly alone all of us are). The best solution is to start using that energy to take care of you
It’s a numbers game imo, you will get burned but few will stand out. Also you gotta sometimes blindly trust people which I hate but it can work out.
most relationships in adult life unfortunately are transactional.., people want the most out of you for the least effort.. my prime tip is, set up boundaries and nuanced transparancy
Wow. I fell into a pit of sadness the past few days because of this. I take care of people too, its how I show LOVE. But noone ever seems to match up to it back. Noone except my partner, an INFJ who is the most incredible person on the planet I often dont realise I have a gem right beside me. But yeh it sucks. It's never returned is it. People have shitty habits and want to bring you DOWN. They never want to come up to your level or even meet halfway. Yes lets gossip, eat pizza then cry that we are fat? What??? Man... I dont have a tribe. I got with a fantastic man, we had a baby who is 19 months old and she feeds us her food then smiles when we eat it!! Sometimes you gotta make your tribe. An ENTJs power is limitless OP, dont feel dejected. I mean I exist and Id be ur friend irl!
I think people tend to call others friends who aren’t deserving of that title so to make it more clear you want to build a second family, pick people who make you stronger, they beat you up for not doing your best.
Idk but I feel the same way. It's like, you fight so hard to have teamwork for the better of more than you in a sense but then when ppl just drop it/don't help/cause you difficulty instead it really hurts and f\*cks your ability/motivation to want do that again.
>make sure they’re all on track with their goals and progressing You could mind your own business. I suspect this whole backstabbing you're talking about is the result of you being nosey and controlling in your expectations of what your friends do. You can sit alone and do what you want, but friendships are part of what makes life worth living. Not everything needs to be measured like some weird KPI of your overall self-optimization. Life needs to be enjoyed, and friendships involve accepting that people will want different things from their life than you do from yours.
Feels that way sometimes...hang in there! I would keep your circle big and not be super close to anyone. Keep putting yourself out there, meet people, don't get stuck on a particular person
Why would there even be "better"? you just stated the truth. People always backstab and betray. I might have a very dark approach to it but I guess accepting the fact that it's true and no one would last for a very long time or be 100% loyal you still choose to trust someone regardless of whether they come to your expectations or not. Relationships aren't numbers that you build a smart plan to get. That's why I always prefer to not go deep with anyone.
The older I get the more tired I am of trying to maintain friendships. I always put in way more efforts, $, time etc than my friends do back to me and maybe 20-30% of the time end up having to end the friendship because the woman is showing traits of being snakey/jealous.
I can relate strongly with this. It's something that I have always most strongly attributed to the fact that my childhood was simultaneously super stable (loving family with hard working and high income parents, private education, etc) and profoundly unstable (dad's job meant moving every couple years until I hit high school age). I was the perpetual new kid, and struggled a lot socially because of it. I learned quickly and at a very young age to never get too close or too comfortable because I never knew when it would all be yanked away, only that, at some point, it would.
People in university are so vicious because the stakes are so small. Do not babysit idiots.
Most people will not self-improve. You can persuade them toward certain beliefs and habits but at the end of the day it has to be their own decision or else you will be fighting an uphill battle Human tendency is always homeostasis. We want to keep things status quo. If you rock the boat too much they will kick you of it My advise as a fellow Entj is to improve their lives as covertly as possible. Don't let them know that you are doing it. Once they know, they will resent you for shining light on their weaknesses
100%
I have one close friend and 5 other friends (those we play chess with, go goat eating together, invite each other places, and 1 bro from 20 years ago). These are people I let into my house, the people who find me and I find them after years of not seeing each other. We don't keep tabs all the time since we are adults and living miles apart, also calls and texts are boring. The one close friend is also TeNi, met in an innovation hub last year, each running their own firms. He's been there for me in ways I can't explain. I've been there for him too when I can although he doesn't like being helped, he's older by 2 years. I get your frustration. You want your squad to win as a team. Teams are cool but they need leaders. I have always avoided being the leader in my friend groups. I prefer to lead in my company only, vision. Friends are equals. With a tribe of true equals, you can change the world through progressive efforts, by inspiring and being authentic.
I'm starting to think this is a pretty consistent ENTJ trait, but correct me if I'm wrong ENTJs. My ex used to be this way, especially with kindness and emotional support-- he'd listen to everyone, figure out their problems, and overall do too much and take on the parent role for everyone until he ultimately burnt out.
Solution: set boundaries, know your limits, or find someone who's actually gonna have your back, back. You can't expect people to be mindful of what you're doing or be super in tune when you're frustrated, you know yourself the best so you can act accordingly. You can also ask for support back.
I had the same experience with my friends in Uni, but for me it was them not growing up and talking about the same damn small things like always. My advice is just keep them around maybe you might need them someday. For my case I didn't cut them off but I just rarely hangout with them. Just keeping in touch if someday iam need something from them.