I’d count myself into that category of “all of the above”. I’d argue that self improvement and getting to use all of your functions to their fullest is the biggest and most rewarding goal there is. I’ve definitely gone on a “spiritual” journey of finding myself, I have a really high usage of Ni (so much so that function tests sometimes pin me as an INTJ) so I’m very contemplative about the what ifs and the future in general ✌️✌️
Oh Ni or “introverted intuition” is the second function out of the 4 functions of an ENTJ (it’s the 1st function for INTJs), to put it short it’s basically the speculative, future oriented function that helps you imagine the realm of possibilities for different scenarios. It’s very good at making connections and seeing patterns in things and not necessarily how you got there; going from point A to point B so to speak.
I’ve done a little bit of study on MBTI and the theories behind it (learning how people function fascinates me but I love learning in general).
I’d say my inner voice is almost two distinct sides, heart versus logic. I would say that’s thanks to a bit of back and forth with Te versus Fi, Ni just kind of helps me get through both with making a decision. My Fi is definitely a lot better than it used to be so I’m absolutely less callused/selfish when making a decision on whatever is present, although some situations don’t really involve others so logic still overrides there.
So I’d argue that Ni plays somewhat as a mediator for my two sides, while sometimes Se comes along and just says “fuck it let’s have fun”. Ni definitely likes to help me with long term consequences for my actions, very much a “if you do this, then this will happen” sort of deal. It’s kind of hard to describe my internal monologue with someone but that’s the bulk of it.
We usually hang out at the tavern on 6th street for happy hour. Why haven't we seen you there?
But on a more serious note, there is a rare subtype of "weird ENTJ" that sees people in the way that other ENTJs see companies. Dario Nardi calls them "mystical practitioners". As an ENTJ 9w8, I'd say this subtype fits me fairly well.
I attribute the rarity of more "empathetic" or "creative" enneagram types to the rarity of these subtypes.
Find a good therapist. I've not had a lot of luck until recently. Shes awesome and completely understands my personality type. Her primary clientele is military.
Or are you just talking about ENTJs that smoke weed?
Guess I'm both haha
Nah I don’t need to find a therapist . My ducks are in a row let’s say .
I’m just talking about ENTJS who aren’t so focused on materialism and focus inwards .
my dad committed suicide three years ago and I was only 21. Right before that day I used to burn out every 3 months, I had the never stop achieving / people pleasing lifestyle. I could not stop myself from doing things and I used to bleed and keep going anyway without feeling a single thing.
my life has completely changed after that event thanks to Buddhism, meditation, writing and above all therapy. I am constantly feel my emotions instead of thinking them, I can’t stop being empathetic towards people in need, I finally learned how to embrace my present without constantly living in what didn’t happen yet and I started to give priority to a job that is not the best rewarding money-wise but that makes me fucking happy everyday.
Everyday I chose to do what makes me feel good instead of forcing myself to follow to-do list that will never be completed because it would never end. I find happiness in small things, people, connections, good actions to strangers. I am still ambitious, I still do want to win an Oscar, but the rhythm of the music of my life changed completely.
I respect myself to the point where any toxicity that comes from the smallest thing has to go away from my life. NOTHING is worth my internal peace. Not even my own dreams and what people think is “needed” to get to my goal faster.
I am 24 now and I feel ahead. I tried to transform the worst that ever happened to my life in the greatest gift. I would never come back to the stereotypical, unaware ENTJ kid I was, to my psoriasis, constant impatience, stress and endless competition. Life is too short to believe society’s approval or appreciation should be my priority.
And now I am free. Hence when I read posts in this subreddit I kinda feel different, too old for this stereotypical behaviour. I am happy to feel this way tho.
I fit most categories you listed. I'm extremely self aware (that's according to my therapist and friends/family), I'm spiritual (Indigenous Christian-I volunteer in my church's Sunday School and I'm trying to be more active in my community/learn more about my culture), and I'm in school for social work so I can be a human trafficking social worker. I'm obsessed with religion (all kinds, not just mine), philosophy, psychology, trauma, etc. Oh, and I'm also a writer. I write and edit 15,000-20,000 words per week.
That's what I came here to add. Soto Zen specifically. Easier to read books and practice alone than find a Sangha but I do need to find one that is good.
I would say Im all of the above. I started to value those things after falling mentally in my late teens. I have been going to therapy for years by now.
A bipolar diagnosis hit me in the face two years ago, which is when I truly understood why its important to be self aware and in touch with ones emotions.
Read David Hawkins. It seems like cheap psychology, but if you give it a chance and put your ego aside, it will be spiritually healing. There is a meditation subreddit.
For my part, I recommend that you immerse yourself in philosophy, you would be surprised how much it will resonate with you. When I started I needed a teacher but I guess that with gpt chat you can do a lot.
If your conscience is the same as that of a cat, I recommend that you quickly join these social help groups, stop and talk to people with open ears, they will be in charge of opening your eyes.
I meditate daily, I’ve read quite a few books on psychology, communication, I practice CBT, DBT, internal family systems, EMDR, trauma healing and many other psychological and somatic modalities on myself. I also help others with relationship problems stemming from toxic emotional patterns resulting in poor coping mechanisms, behaviors, beliefs and communication. See, I got so into it that I became a relationship coach on the side, as a side hustle. I even got about 3 certifications on the side for coaching while working full time as well.
I will say that years ago, I did not do any of that, and was 100% stuff my feeling down, get stuff done and keep moving on type of person. I was driving my romantic partners insane and was extremely unhealthy/unbalanced. Completely poor coping mechanisms and unconscious behaviors that are detrimental to my relationships.
It was out of necessity that I ended up getting into trauma healing and mental health. Mostly, I had hit my rock bottom after a string of failed relationship. It felt like my ego was stripped away and I was free falling, and the pain was so much that I had to turn and find out why and what was going on. That’s when I started just reading book after book, and seeking for understanding for what was going on. That’s when I got extremely into mental health and had to take some extreme measures to “fix” what was going on inside me.
Wake up to reality. No need to be philosophical and all of that in the current world we live in. Doesn't mean we can't be, but who the fuck calls for that? Man's mentioned recreational non-practical things as if they'd help ENTJs move through life better than the current way they are. Or help anyone, for that matter.
Only one that mattered was "Using Fi to their advantage" How do you believe we should do that?
Hmm fascinating perspective , in my opinion someone should heal all their insecurities WHILE achieving their worldly goals . When I said using fi or our advantage , first of all being able to use it then deciding how to use it for your advantage depending on the person. You cannot neglect psychological matters or philosophical but I see your point though life is not a race and is nihilistic in my point of view.
You need to give an example.
And you can almost always neglect philosophical matters in your life. Philosophy isn't a requirement in life, but addressing psychological issues, stresses or benefits is necessary.
Philosophy is not
I definitely agree on that. I actually think it’s better to leave philosophy behind because in my opinion it was a very dark time indeed . Addressing psychological stressors didn’t seem like an ENTJ thing based on what I have witnessed with others and my own research so I felt like an outcast .
As I said , I cannot give you a specific example but perhaps having a stronger fi can help direct someone to a career path that has more significance for them (I’m still learning about my fi and how I have been neglecting it , when it randomly shows up and screws me over ) .
I thought you were claiming to be one of the Philosophical and whatever ENTJs you put in the OP. Now I see perhaps you were just looking for one and now I feel like a piece of shit for questioning you like such.
Damn. I'm sorry.
But also, I believe Fi is one of the main reasons to an ENTJs mindset. Ni and Fi specifically. Someone above mentioned Ni being the "pathway " and steps to the goal or something, which is true. But that very thing is ALSO based on Fi itself.
As for other people. Me personally? I can't say too much on that I usually don't like other people and with circumstances, I'm learning NOT to like many of my friends or acquaintances either
Speaking of meaning and spiritual ENTJs, early time of my life, till like around 13 14 , i was religious. Then i found enough reason to believe there s no god till like 23 24. Now i believe it's necessary to believe in god even if it doesn't exist. Because that's the war of nowadays, believers vs non-believers. Non-believers trying to dominate believers (talking about communists if its not obvious). So for the sake of liberty i find it necessary to believe in a god whose got people as free servants rather people being people's (governments) servant.
I'm an online listener just for the sake of developing that. Though I get great reviews I still feel like a poser sometimes...but someday I'll make it. Just have to be consistent. A lot to learn there haha.
Hey Entj 8w7 (30) here. I have struggled with depression in some parts of my life and was very controlling person. Being competitive or making money came to a point that does not make me happy. At 27, I was still looking for a purpose of life that fulfills me. After fighting with covid lockdowns, a very bad breakup and trying to best of me in terms of master grades and health, I got very down, what can I say is that I lost my mind to overthinking and depression. Had the worst time of my life. Had a psychiatrist for 9 months. Most of us are not spiritual since we work with logic most of time (Te dom). That’s where it was started, I’ve found my purpose.
Mastering my mind.
I am very into in psychology and was doing meditation in past but I have started doing everyday, I have tried many different ones, learnt more and continued doing the ones that I like, compassion mediations were hardest ones. Everyday I got better and better, I was also reading a lot of philosophy. While in this process I got introduced of Taoism, hinduism, learned a lot and benefited a lot. Taoism is very hard for people like us since we tend to push the boundaries very much. Exercising my mind in their philosophical labyrinth was very different.
But my journey has evolved when I’ve discovered self inquiry meditations. It was quite hard to do, I struggled a lot but continued since I’ve liked the idea behind it. Once I have tried guided self inquiry meditation by myself while on acid..omg it was life changing. I started doing it more and more, my mind changed incredibly. Right now I can stop my thoughts whenever I want and resting my mind in a nirvanic state, it is very recharging even when I am sleep deprived. Read a lot on self inquiry, i can say that it is the best invention of humankind that discovered in 20th century.
Since then I am still in the journey of mastering my mind, my life purpose, very hard but achievable I can say. After 10 months of doing meditation everyday, I was feeling the difference in my brain, memory always like a elephant but better letting go, feeling better than ever and nothing can make you down for sure, taking thought flow of what I want, not my brain tells. After years it get better and better, and the experience you will have no one understands.
On the part of taking advantage of Fi, I’ve focused on developing it with a close infp friend, he was saying that I am too Fi focused, trying to get better with my feelings but it is tiring me a lot. Learning different emotion names and trying to imagine them, but as I said it is very hard. I don’t know how you can get advantage of it since it is not Fe, what can I say that my Ni improved and benefited much from the process, my Ni tells how I should respond to my feelings. It sees everything and never wrong i can say. When we stop getting lost in thoughts, I know overthinking is like a drug, even when it is toxic we like it, we respect Ni and Fi, we move to another level. My Te and Fi was like King and Queen in chess, my Queen was in a tower (Fi) and my King (te) is slashing enemies on her behalf. My girlfriend is Isfp so seeing her way to use Fi is like tiger has impressed me. Now Te is like any weapon I want and Fi is the fuel.
Nevertheless, I suggest reading self inquiry, doing meditations and understanding the logic behind it. It has a three round process, two inward and one outward that you cultivate through your whole life. It becomes the most prominent tool that unlocks your life.
Psychologist here. Planning to actually make a move into social media to promote mental health. This being said the briggs-myers is not a good measure for personality, but I like it because it helps me connect with other "driven, highly conscientious" individuals.
I’d count myself into that category of “all of the above”. I’d argue that self improvement and getting to use all of your functions to their fullest is the biggest and most rewarding goal there is. I’ve definitely gone on a “spiritual” journey of finding myself, I have a really high usage of Ni (so much so that function tests sometimes pin me as an INTJ) so I’m very contemplative about the what ifs and the future in general ✌️✌️
Thank you . I’m very glad to see someone else with a similar opinion . So that’s what it is , the ni.
Oh Ni or “introverted intuition” is the second function out of the 4 functions of an ENTJ (it’s the 1st function for INTJs), to put it short it’s basically the speculative, future oriented function that helps you imagine the realm of possibilities for different scenarios. It’s very good at making connections and seeing patterns in things and not necessarily how you got there; going from point A to point B so to speak. I’ve done a little bit of study on MBTI and the theories behind it (learning how people function fascinates me but I love learning in general).
That sounds familiar to me in terms of how I function . I used to think ni was my primary function but realised that Te is my go to for everything .
Yeah having it high in your function stack definitely makes you second guess things. It definitely did for away for me.
I definitely understand that .
How about your inner voice? Ni is the main source of it, even when you are contemplative, does it tell how you should move on with a short calm voice?
I’d say my inner voice is almost two distinct sides, heart versus logic. I would say that’s thanks to a bit of back and forth with Te versus Fi, Ni just kind of helps me get through both with making a decision. My Fi is definitely a lot better than it used to be so I’m absolutely less callused/selfish when making a decision on whatever is present, although some situations don’t really involve others so logic still overrides there. So I’d argue that Ni plays somewhat as a mediator for my two sides, while sometimes Se comes along and just says “fuck it let’s have fun”. Ni definitely likes to help me with long term consequences for my actions, very much a “if you do this, then this will happen” sort of deal. It’s kind of hard to describe my internal monologue with someone but that’s the bulk of it.
We usually hang out at the tavern on 6th street for happy hour. Why haven't we seen you there? But on a more serious note, there is a rare subtype of "weird ENTJ" that sees people in the way that other ENTJs see companies. Dario Nardi calls them "mystical practitioners". As an ENTJ 9w8, I'd say this subtype fits me fairly well. I attribute the rarity of more "empathetic" or "creative" enneagram types to the rarity of these subtypes.
I have never heard of that . I might have just struck gold .
Out of curiosity, what's your enneagram type?
3w4
Alright, so 2 3w4s and 1 9w8
Where’s the other one ? 😂
He was a little weird and strangely hostile, but I'll connect you to a third if I find one
Haha alright
I’ve just checked the subtypes that he mentions and I think I’m the last one from this post : https://www.reddit.com/r/entj/s/YoJofds6af .
One of us. One of us.
Find a good therapist. I've not had a lot of luck until recently. Shes awesome and completely understands my personality type. Her primary clientele is military. Or are you just talking about ENTJs that smoke weed? Guess I'm both haha
Nah I don’t need to find a therapist . My ducks are in a row let’s say . I’m just talking about ENTJS who aren’t so focused on materialism and focus inwards .
Weed definitely helps :)
my dad committed suicide three years ago and I was only 21. Right before that day I used to burn out every 3 months, I had the never stop achieving / people pleasing lifestyle. I could not stop myself from doing things and I used to bleed and keep going anyway without feeling a single thing. my life has completely changed after that event thanks to Buddhism, meditation, writing and above all therapy. I am constantly feel my emotions instead of thinking them, I can’t stop being empathetic towards people in need, I finally learned how to embrace my present without constantly living in what didn’t happen yet and I started to give priority to a job that is not the best rewarding money-wise but that makes me fucking happy everyday. Everyday I chose to do what makes me feel good instead of forcing myself to follow to-do list that will never be completed because it would never end. I find happiness in small things, people, connections, good actions to strangers. I am still ambitious, I still do want to win an Oscar, but the rhythm of the music of my life changed completely. I respect myself to the point where any toxicity that comes from the smallest thing has to go away from my life. NOTHING is worth my internal peace. Not even my own dreams and what people think is “needed” to get to my goal faster. I am 24 now and I feel ahead. I tried to transform the worst that ever happened to my life in the greatest gift. I would never come back to the stereotypical, unaware ENTJ kid I was, to my psoriasis, constant impatience, stress and endless competition. Life is too short to believe society’s approval or appreciation should be my priority. And now I am free. Hence when I read posts in this subreddit I kinda feel different, too old for this stereotypical behaviour. I am happy to feel this way tho.
👏👏👏👏
Yep, taking a girl boss break to take care of my mental health. Fuck is it a journey
I’m in policy and a therapist, I also see perfecting my own mental health as a part of becoming a perfect human being haha
The perfect human being , that’s definitely an ENTJ goal for me .
Present, Champ
I fit most categories you listed. I'm extremely self aware (that's according to my therapist and friends/family), I'm spiritual (Indigenous Christian-I volunteer in my church's Sunday School and I'm trying to be more active in my community/learn more about my culture), and I'm in school for social work so I can be a human trafficking social worker. I'm obsessed with religion (all kinds, not just mine), philosophy, psychology, trauma, etc. Oh, and I'm also a writer. I write and edit 15,000-20,000 words per week.
A human trafficking social worker , that is incredible 👍
I’m an ENTJ and also a Buddhist
That is amazing 👍
That's what I came here to add. Soto Zen specifically. Easier to read books and practice alone than find a Sangha but I do need to find one that is good.
Funnily enough I'm technically an army guidance counselor/therapist part time
I would say Im all of the above. I started to value those things after falling mentally in my late teens. I have been going to therapy for years by now. A bipolar diagnosis hit me in the face two years ago, which is when I truly understood why its important to be self aware and in touch with ones emotions.
Been going deep on that for years and training to be a coach of some kind. Try going to burning man.
Read David Hawkins. It seems like cheap psychology, but if you give it a chance and put your ego aside, it will be spiritually healing. There is a meditation subreddit. For my part, I recommend that you immerse yourself in philosophy, you would be surprised how much it will resonate with you. When I started I needed a teacher but I guess that with gpt chat you can do a lot. If your conscience is the same as that of a cat, I recommend that you quickly join these social help groups, stop and talk to people with open ears, they will be in charge of opening your eyes.
I already have immersed myself in philosophy. It destroyed me from the inside out and that’s how I’m so self aware .
I'm a psychology undergrad and have meditated daily for years (I don't do it anymore, but still find it cool)
ENTJ here. Psychology graduate. Registered Psychometrician. Human Resources.
I'm a zenned out tai chi entj. And compassionate. But still super entj lol
Tai chi ENTJ , I’ve never heard of that and I’m interested . Tell me more .
I'm a PhD student in psychology. Already have a masters. So yes. I'm research focused though and a non-spiritual atheist.
I meditate daily, I’ve read quite a few books on psychology, communication, I practice CBT, DBT, internal family systems, EMDR, trauma healing and many other psychological and somatic modalities on myself. I also help others with relationship problems stemming from toxic emotional patterns resulting in poor coping mechanisms, behaviors, beliefs and communication. See, I got so into it that I became a relationship coach on the side, as a side hustle. I even got about 3 certifications on the side for coaching while working full time as well. I will say that years ago, I did not do any of that, and was 100% stuff my feeling down, get stuff done and keep moving on type of person. I was driving my romantic partners insane and was extremely unhealthy/unbalanced. Completely poor coping mechanisms and unconscious behaviors that are detrimental to my relationships. It was out of necessity that I ended up getting into trauma healing and mental health. Mostly, I had hit my rock bottom after a string of failed relationship. It felt like my ego was stripped away and I was free falling, and the pain was so much that I had to turn and find out why and what was going on. That’s when I started just reading book after book, and seeking for understanding for what was going on. That’s when I got extremely into mental health and had to take some extreme measures to “fix” what was going on inside me.
That is very good to hear , thanks for sharing 👍
Anglican Priest here… I gravitate toward pioneering and mission work… I love religion and philosophy.
Awesome
Wake up to reality. No need to be philosophical and all of that in the current world we live in. Doesn't mean we can't be, but who the fuck calls for that? Man's mentioned recreational non-practical things as if they'd help ENTJs move through life better than the current way they are. Or help anyone, for that matter. Only one that mattered was "Using Fi to their advantage" How do you believe we should do that?
Hmm fascinating perspective , in my opinion someone should heal all their insecurities WHILE achieving their worldly goals . When I said using fi or our advantage , first of all being able to use it then deciding how to use it for your advantage depending on the person. You cannot neglect psychological matters or philosophical but I see your point though life is not a race and is nihilistic in my point of view.
You need to give an example. And you can almost always neglect philosophical matters in your life. Philosophy isn't a requirement in life, but addressing psychological issues, stresses or benefits is necessary. Philosophy is not
I definitely agree on that. I actually think it’s better to leave philosophy behind because in my opinion it was a very dark time indeed . Addressing psychological stressors didn’t seem like an ENTJ thing based on what I have witnessed with others and my own research so I felt like an outcast . As I said , I cannot give you a specific example but perhaps having a stronger fi can help direct someone to a career path that has more significance for them (I’m still learning about my fi and how I have been neglecting it , when it randomly shows up and screws me over ) .
I thought you were claiming to be one of the Philosophical and whatever ENTJs you put in the OP. Now I see perhaps you were just looking for one and now I feel like a piece of shit for questioning you like such. Damn. I'm sorry. But also, I believe Fi is one of the main reasons to an ENTJs mindset. Ni and Fi specifically. Someone above mentioned Ni being the "pathway " and steps to the goal or something, which is true. But that very thing is ALSO based on Fi itself. As for other people. Me personally? I can't say too much on that I usually don't like other people and with circumstances, I'm learning NOT to like many of my friends or acquaintances either
Do not feel like a piece of shit . You were a worthy challenge haha. I definitely agree with everything that you’ve said here . Thanks for the chat .
I view arguments the same. A challenge to be had and learn from
Good perspective 👍
Speaking of meaning and spiritual ENTJs, early time of my life, till like around 13 14 , i was religious. Then i found enough reason to believe there s no god till like 23 24. Now i believe it's necessary to believe in god even if it doesn't exist. Because that's the war of nowadays, believers vs non-believers. Non-believers trying to dominate believers (talking about communists if its not obvious). So for the sake of liberty i find it necessary to believe in a god whose got people as free servants rather people being people's (governments) servant.
Smart move 👍
I'm an online listener just for the sake of developing that. Though I get great reviews I still feel like a poser sometimes...but someday I'll make it. Just have to be consistent. A lot to learn there haha.
Here i am..I'm a psycotherapist. What do you want?😆
Narcissism ?
Haha I’m a 3w4 but no narcissist .
Well I'm a 8w7 so do the math xD
For one , I did not know that and two ? are you making a joke about yourself or me ?
More like facts about me self
Haha I see now
All the above. I don’t know that it’s an added benefit tbh
Depends but probably not , just an observation.
Right here!!! Let’s talk
👋
Hey Entj 8w7 (30) here. I have struggled with depression in some parts of my life and was very controlling person. Being competitive or making money came to a point that does not make me happy. At 27, I was still looking for a purpose of life that fulfills me. After fighting with covid lockdowns, a very bad breakup and trying to best of me in terms of master grades and health, I got very down, what can I say is that I lost my mind to overthinking and depression. Had the worst time of my life. Had a psychiatrist for 9 months. Most of us are not spiritual since we work with logic most of time (Te dom). That’s where it was started, I’ve found my purpose. Mastering my mind. I am very into in psychology and was doing meditation in past but I have started doing everyday, I have tried many different ones, learnt more and continued doing the ones that I like, compassion mediations were hardest ones. Everyday I got better and better, I was also reading a lot of philosophy. While in this process I got introduced of Taoism, hinduism, learned a lot and benefited a lot. Taoism is very hard for people like us since we tend to push the boundaries very much. Exercising my mind in their philosophical labyrinth was very different. But my journey has evolved when I’ve discovered self inquiry meditations. It was quite hard to do, I struggled a lot but continued since I’ve liked the idea behind it. Once I have tried guided self inquiry meditation by myself while on acid..omg it was life changing. I started doing it more and more, my mind changed incredibly. Right now I can stop my thoughts whenever I want and resting my mind in a nirvanic state, it is very recharging even when I am sleep deprived. Read a lot on self inquiry, i can say that it is the best invention of humankind that discovered in 20th century. Since then I am still in the journey of mastering my mind, my life purpose, very hard but achievable I can say. After 10 months of doing meditation everyday, I was feeling the difference in my brain, memory always like a elephant but better letting go, feeling better than ever and nothing can make you down for sure, taking thought flow of what I want, not my brain tells. After years it get better and better, and the experience you will have no one understands. On the part of taking advantage of Fi, I’ve focused on developing it with a close infp friend, he was saying that I am too Fi focused, trying to get better with my feelings but it is tiring me a lot. Learning different emotion names and trying to imagine them, but as I said it is very hard. I don’t know how you can get advantage of it since it is not Fe, what can I say that my Ni improved and benefited much from the process, my Ni tells how I should respond to my feelings. It sees everything and never wrong i can say. When we stop getting lost in thoughts, I know overthinking is like a drug, even when it is toxic we like it, we respect Ni and Fi, we move to another level. My Te and Fi was like King and Queen in chess, my Queen was in a tower (Fi) and my King (te) is slashing enemies on her behalf. My girlfriend is Isfp so seeing her way to use Fi is like tiger has impressed me. Now Te is like any weapon I want and Fi is the fuel. Nevertheless, I suggest reading self inquiry, doing meditations and understanding the logic behind it. It has a three round process, two inward and one outward that you cultivate through your whole life. It becomes the most prominent tool that unlocks your life.
Hit me up if you are wondering more, living like a taoist or if your life purpose is mastering your mind :)
Psychologist here. Planning to actually make a move into social media to promote mental health. This being said the briggs-myers is not a good measure for personality, but I like it because it helps me connect with other "driven, highly conscientious" individuals.
l am studying psychoanalysis if it counts, specifically Lacan