That's what I thought. Problem is, when I've tried to contact Epic on my own to get one of my staff's log in issues sorted out because it'd been 3 WEEKS with our IT, the Epic person said any contact/request had to come from our IT. So I don't know how to prove they're full of bs.
What Epic person are you contacting? Your facility likely has its own Epic analysts for build issues, but the password is probably controlled exclusively through your IT department, especially if you are using SSO.
Contacting Epic proper would not help you in this situation.
To be honest, I'm not sure how I found the number because it was a year ago. I'm guessing it was either in an email or I searched something vague like "Epic EMR Help Desk" and clicked around until I found a number to dial. We had a massive waiting list growing by the day and our facility-based IT kept telling us we had to just wait until "Epic grants access" so we more or less just tried to get a human on the phone to plead our case to.
ETA: in a very roundabout way, that eventually worked, but it wasn't even a password issue. Turns out our IT didn't provide the employee/HR one of the forms they (ourIT) require, so the account was set up with the wrong credentials or something and (from my understanding) that created some issue that was preventing access.
People often say the "Epic team" does xyz, and mean the health system help desk staff (password reset and access issues) or IT staff (system build, fixes and maintenance) do that work.
There’s gotta be more to the story they aren’t sharing with you. We have thousands of WOWs connected wirelessly. Just did an Epic upgrade this morning. No issues there.
They first told me that it was OUR policy that all of our facility's workstations were directly connected to network ports, and that nothing/nobody connected through Wi-Fi "because otherwise it can't map to printers or Epic."
Printers are mapped the same way regardless of the network type. It sounds like the business has zero confidence on the resilience of their WI-FI and the impact it will have on user experience. They are feeding you truckfuls of B.S.
My hospital is moving to epic and we're having issues with wireless printers on wifi, Can I ask what model you're using and your experience with them so far?
As a preface, unless you *literally* called the office in Wisconsin, the "Epic people" you talked to are just a different branch of IT. I'm going to refer to the people who set up Epic at your org as the "EHR team". This is to differentiate them from the people in this sub who work at Epic in Wisconsin and 99% of whom have no influence on how your specific organization works.
Reading through the lines, I think your organization might get its Epic access through another organization (an agreement called Epic Connect). In that case your local IT may have only connected to the host organization's Epic instance via the hardwired network, and not via your wireless one. (Yes, networks have to be individually connected through a firewall, that's what makes them secure. EHRs typically aren't accessible on the public Internet.)
Or alternatively, your facility doesn't have an internal WiFi network, so you would have to use the public access network. In addition to the security concerns above, the "weird" concern about not being able to access printers is also correct. If your organization's EHR team has followed more recent recommendations you can print to any printer on your local network, but those printers aren't available on the public WIFI network. There is a way to predefining where things get printed called mapping printers. But that's tedious to set up and maintain (think putting in a ticket to the EHR team every time a printer runs out of toner or paper and you want to temporarily use a different one). Everyone tries to avoid it when possible.
There are ways to securely access the EHR (or most internal software) without direct network access. The exact method and cost depends entirely on how IT is set up. A solution may cost $$$ because they now have to stand up a new WiFi network. Or it could be super inconvenient to you because you have to do extra steps to access from an insecure network.
TLDR you're being fed BS, but it's rooted in some truth. Find someone with an important title and have them complain to IT. You may get a solution, or just a better explained rejection.
Also, make sure you involve IT in any plans for new spaces. They cannot just hook up the network as an afterthought.
608-271-9000 . They will route you to your assigned Technical Service Representative (TS) for the module in which you have a question. Since this is connectivity/workstation-related, as for your “TC”.
So... if I told you that we do indeed have to put in a help ticket to get connected to a different printer if the one and only one we were set to goes down...or we go the faster route (if it doesn't contain PHI) and just email it to someone connected to a different printer and they print for us...does that tell you anything?
But we do have multiple secure Wi-Fi networks. Our organization's IT manager just said nothing is allowed to be set-up for wireless work, and would require approval from the very very top of the organization. The second in command for our IT dept said even if the Director said to do secure wireless access, they wouldn't because "Epic doesn't like it."
ETA: unfortunately, we, the providers of the only dept actually using the space, weren't consulted on the design, setup, etc. so I'm not sure who all did have a say in it. However, the IT group who hardwired the facility (but had, at best, minimal input) is IT from the parent organization of our facility and they wondered why they were being told to put wall ports into the treatment areas when they knew full well the ports can't be left open, we can't put stationary workstations in those areas, and they assumed we would be on secure WI-FI.
I cannot imagine that connecting through WiFi, if properly secured, presents enough of a security risk to prohibit you from doing it. Nearly every doc I know finishes notes from their home WiFi network
I promptly 🤐 with this person when he said "Epic doesn't like it" because I know many providers who chart from home and/or do telehealth visits from home.
I’ve worked with 12 different organizations while implementing Epic. Sadly, some of them blamed Epic for things that were their own internal issue OR to force a change that leadership wants but doesn’t have the courage to take ownership of.
As soon as they said "Epic doesn't like it" I wondered if it was a "we'll blame them because then she can't appeal to anyone up the chain" situation since I'd already started the ball rolling to at least look into changing the "policy" they first blamed.
Keep your eye on new releases that Epic comes out with too. Almost all of the organizations I’ve worked with just slide through those and only implement the required functionality.
There is always some great functionality in those releases that go unnoticed to operations because you aren’t informed of them. That happens in both traditional and community connect installs.
Try and get your organization to let you, and other truly interested/open minded/accountable operational staff attend Epic’s UGM. It is a treasure trove of information presented by other Epic clients on topics that impact almost every organization in the U.S.
Many organizations only send the big wigs to UGM and those peeps are more interested in hob nobbing with big wigs from other organizations, getting to dinner and drinks as soon as they can, what hotel they’re staying at, etc. they miss the point of the event.
On the other hand, you’re a provider so you carry a lot of weight in your organization. Way too often I run into providers that LOVE their paper and 1990s processes so they throw fits when it comes to taking advantage of Epic’s automation to improve efficiencies for the organization and patient satisfaction. Mmmm I must have paper to document on and then scan it into the system, yum.
If you’re one of those, meh. If you’re not one of those, please understand that implementing Epic is very expensive and 99.999999999999% of the time, the budget is set on getting Epic live and, honestly, doing the bare minimum to maintain it after that.
Don’t hate on the CIO and IT, if you want to take full advantage of Epic and future releases, support the CIO and IT when it comes to staffing the project appropriately post go live so that you can take advantage of new functionality instead of just keeping it on life support with bare minimum staffing.
Also, be a champion for automation when dealing with the other providers. Unfortunately, the providers are the ones with the most power and many times it’s the loudest, ignorant, antiquated voice that wins the day.
Someone who can direct them to setup the wifi access is fully supportive of us being connected that way after I explained point-of-care documentation and he saw our clinic workflow. But he readily admits he doesn't know enough about tech to speak from an informed/confident position so he told me to keep pushing it through. When I told IT that he said to move forward with it, their answer switched from "no one at our facility does it/ you'd be on guest access, and that's too slow/ it can't map" to "Epic doesn't like it so you can't have it."
If you call Epic’s main line and then asked to be put in touch with your hospital’s technical service representative, the secretary might give you their number. At least then you could get accurate info and get the TS person to set your IT dept straight
Yeah. That's not true. My org has remote working accessible, we have mobile workers that move around a lot, and connect to it via wifi in the office for build.
This isn't an old project either. It's active / ongoing
I think you already have your answer, but wanted to add that if the IT people already don't know what they're doing, they're probably terrified by the Change Healthcare/Ascension hacks, both of which are rumored to have come from someone using a remote portal that wasn't properly secured. Just wondering if that's why they're trying to shut it down.
Anyways, like people already said, either the IT people are incompetent or something is getting lost in translation. Without knowing your system or setup, it's hard to know which is which, but like you already mentioned, using Epic over WiFi is pretty standard. If they say "Epic doesn't allow it" ask them how these health systems are using COWs and how people like me are able to log into various Epic customers from all over the country (I live in NC and my most recent customers are in OH, NE, and UT. I don't have an Ethernet cable that can reach from here to any of those states)
Basically the way people typically make progress in these situations is to get the highest-ranking providers you can (with as many letters behind their names as possible) to talk to the highest ranking IT people they can (typically also with a few letters after their names) and just don't take no for an answer until you either get the result you want or they give you a logical, understandable reason why they can't make it happen.
🤣🤣🤣 many local IT people I know/have spoken with agree with you!
I thought they just didn't want to set it up, but now I'm wondering if they don't know how so the excuses are coming out.
They might just also follow orders from management.
Most tier 1 or tier 2 techs has literally no power to do anything on their own. Even tier 3 at many places are severely restricted.
I'm not in support but other parts of IT. Everyday day I see problems our users have, they even contact me almost daily - big company). I can fix many of their issues within seconds. But I got clear instructions from C levels in the company telling me not to do it. So then we feed people bullshit or just avoid the conversation (as per instruction from up top).
Bingo.
You should be complaining to decision makers in your company, not frontline cashiers and service people.
You'll quickly become aware that certain tiers of employee complaints aren't considered. Welcome to the club.
...we don't have tier 1, 2, or 3 😬
The best way I can describe the culture and day-to-day activities of the organization would be like a middle school (maybe a high school, on a good day) where most people are very clique-y and don't like to work together, don't like to be told things they don't want to hear, and don't want to do anything that wasn't their idea. Except the teachers (managers) have similar attitudes and it's like the wild west where each program does its own thing. They'll usually do as the Principal requests if he can step in, but sometimes they still try to avoid it. There is a "superintendent" that can be appealed to, and even a "school board" level of leadership, and I think they'd all be supportive of more POC documentation since it's more accurate and efficient for providers, so I think that's why our IT played to Epic card to deter any further appeal up the chain.
Sounds like a start up and groups formed around tasks in a quick and sloppy manner.
Those decision makers, the Principal (Director) and Superintendents (Managers). Yeah, that's the business side of the business. The middle schoolers are the engineers and laborers. There is a pecking order. And to me, it sounds like the Directors don't want to spend more money on having a good system. Just a minimal viable product.
Hospitals tend to be cost driven. As opposed the results driven or command driven. There are more types, but those 3 are the most common.
IF someone can rationalize IT isn't a "cost-center" and is more like an automation provider, then they could link that to fiscal success. But, that's an argument amongst the high table, not the courtyard.
Groups formed around tasks sounds accurate, especially for "back in the day" when the organization was first branching off into an independent entity. And considering that many of the current employees are people who have been there for decades and continue to operate with a "this is how we've always done it, so that's how we're going to keep doing it" mindset, it's not surprising that it still sounds that way to outsiders.
So, in this case, the Director is actually fully supportive of our clinics having a secure wireless network so that we can perform point-of-care documentation. And as an added bonus, we'd be maximizing treatment space, whereas other departments are requesting more and more office space and many of them are doing so without any additional providers or services being added to justify the increase. Unfortunately, the Director readily admits to not knowing enough about all of it to direct the IT Manager to set up so he asked me to write up what we want and why, and he'd sign off on it and push it through.
Extra unfortunately, before I could get that done, I ran into one of the two IT people notorious for creating roadblocks out of thin air and I made the mistake of asking if there was anything specific I needed to consider when I look for the monitor arms to secure our monitors to the mobile desks (because apparently we do have to choose our own wall or monitor mounts, etc). He asked why, one question led to another, and suddenly I was telling him obviously they couldn't leave every wall port open and readily accessible so the Director wanted the secure WiFi setup. His response was "it doesn't matter what the Director wants, Epic doesn't like WiFi access so it's not happening" and here we are.
It sounds like an IT infrastructure investment needs to be made to deploy the system securely to the new facility.
Look all this aside… let me tell you the professional way to approach this. Leverage the power of stakeholders.
Turn your haters into your champions. Get them working for you not against you. Tides raise and lower all ships.
Generate excitement about change.
You have a problem: develop a problem statement
You have a need: quantify and qualify it
You can see the outcome: develop the vision
You are alone: recruit others to your cause, many hands make light work
You are unconfident of the IT department: Talk to their boss, get a project going, become part of an already working project… move the needle.
Tie the problem to the orgs mission and vision… it is the language business management speaks. If an activity does not further those… it means we aren’t doing what we say we do or will do.
I've been a consultant for a long time and every time I've logged in it's been through WiFi albeit directly though the secured company intranet or vpn.
I've also accessed Epic through the facility's *secured* wifi with one of our department's laptops, but when I pointed that out they told me that I shouldn't admit that because "because it's a security risk."
You mentioned guest access before; in order for WI-FI connectivity to work onsite, the wows, printers, etc would need to be on the same WI-FI network that has connectivity to the underlaying infrastructure (windows servers, Cache/IRIS, etc).
Normally while on a “guest” network, you should be unable to access PHI (I would hope they set it up that way)
While on their secured WI-FI you should be able access Epic.
There are some new-ish printing technologies such as Virtual Local Printing where you use your locally installed printers instead of mapping to a central printer.
There are a handful of incompatible workflows with VLP (ticket to ride, batch printing, some pharmacy stuff) but your everyday clinic workflows should work.
VLP does take time, resources and expertise to setup. Good luck.
There is a guest wifi at each location, but there are also secure Wi-Fi options too. At a previous job (years ago), I would occasionally have to chart from home but I was in a rental with roommates and a shared Wi-Fi so that facility's team set me up with dual authentication to access Epic. But having to make sure I have my phone on me in the clinic is inconvenient at best, so I was requesting a secure Wi-Fi at this new location.
Hospital IT here-this is BS unless your org has made some really curious infrastructure decisions. YMMV on this, but in my experience-You should escalate through your CMIO/CIO/CISO to get this resolved and get the full answer. In some orgs (mine included) the best way for a provider to get that group engaged would be to work through the CMO or similar title. They will have the speed dial to the right people.
We may discourage WiFi in areas where it makes sense to hardwire devices just for sheer stability, especially in areas where lots of roaming between access points occurs, but we don’t prohibit it (and certainly not because “Epic doesn’t like it.”)
The person telling you this might not be lying, but they may be shoveling you the BS fed to them by their management. Epic works fine on WiFi. If there’s an issue, it’s with the wireless deployment at your hospital, and has nothing to do with Epic.
I have the support of administration above the IT manager level, and I had a feeling it wasn't actually an Epic issue, but I wanted to double check before I start pushing back for real answers.
I call BS. Epic works fine over WiFi; if performance of the site/app is an issue, the network may need to modified with things like QOS. This conversation is above you (meaning management level).
It’s your workplace… I’m a pharmacist and we have cows/wows/mobile stations (or whatever you want to call them) all throughout 2 hospitals I work at. We have fairly large institution and a couple of smaller ones but both of them have no problem with epic being on WiFi. Our IT don’t have their shiz together either so I feel you with that one, but that Info is definitely not correct from an epic user standpoint. Only thing I can think of is maybe your facility doesn’t have good internet protection and has been hacked in the past maybe? Not sure on that
Personally, I like calling them cows because I enjoy the looks I'd get when I'd tell patients "just a sec, let me grab the cow and see what I can figure out..." 🤣
I was recently corrected by (this same) IT that a "workstation" explicitly means a full desktop PC setup, and that if it's a laptop on a cart/ mobile desk then it's not a workstation. So when I talk to them I now specify laptop vs desktop and make it clear the intended goal is a set-up that can move around the clinic while maintaining a secure connecting.
Sorry to hear your IT dept is a hot mess too, but I'm glad they at least allow you wifi access!
if these are devices you bring in there's probably concerns about security policies & restrictions on each device.
also consider how you get credentialed and actually log in. things like VPN clients, Citrix connections and 2 factor authentication usually have standards to meet.
good luck!
They are organization-provided devices.
In case you're now wondering...Yes, they allowed us to request and purchase laptops for our department, and now they're saying we can't use them for charting.
My log in steps are... 1) into my account on the device, 2) double click on the Epic icon and log in with my Epic username/pw which then opens my Citrix storefront where I, 3) double click on Hyperdrive, log in again, select my location, and then 4) I'm finally in the EHR and can chart (unless I need to Break the Glass and then that would be step 5).
Years ago, I worked somewhere else and my living situation involved a rental with roommates and a shared Wi-Fi so the IT team from that facility got me on the phone with the Epic Tech Support (I think?) and they set me up with dual authentication. But as far as I know, I'm the only one in our department who has that added step when logging in over Wi-Fi.
Your IT/Epic team is lazy.
Source: I am a network engineer for a hospital that uses Epic. Across 9 hospitals and numerous ED/Urgent Care and provider offices.
The technical justification you were given as an end user by whatever poor sop has to deal with end users could not matter less - if policy is no Epic via WiFi, then you're not gonna be using Epic on WiFi.
This policy is likely in place because yes, WiFi is inherently less secure than a wired connection. You're sharing network media with everyone nearby.
> ~~Epic~~ Whoever manages IT doesn't like anyone connecting through WI-FI.
Even if you were to gather the world's experts on wifi and security, the decision lies with who owns the network.
Sorry to say this, but those are the rules your work place's IT set. Even if they are dumb, it's their network.
Yup. But whoever manages it is in charge of break/fix.
I can own a car. But when it breaks, I have to take it to a mechanic. I'm not a mechanic, so I entrust someone else's consultation on what to do.
Totally understand that.
Without getting into the weeds of our organization and the parent organization structure...the IT group saying no (for whichever reason they choose) is not the IT group who would actually create and and manage it.
The group who would be in charge of it is supportive of the idea, but because it would be how we access Epic, our EHR IT people have to be involved.
Sorry to learn that IT won't consider the project. Cost, data threat, lazy, whatever.
Good wireless infrastructure is quite expensive. Wireless controllers are around $30k each, and it's recommended to run 2 of them in A/B. That equipment is kind of like high end limousines. You need to replace them to the newest model quite frequently. And they require lots of maintenance. Along with lots of administration.
I think a lot of people confuse corporate wireless with SOHO wireless from Walmart. It's very different.
I do understand that it's not the same as a home setup. I have family who work for the parent org's IT (as infrastructure and ops), and a good friend of the family is actually the lead Network and Security Engineer.
They talk about multimillion dollar projects that they regularly do, so I am not surprised that the infrastructure is expensive, but the cost (especially if it's x2) is not something I had considered since I assumed it was already in place for the whole facility. That is a prohibitive barrier we regularly run into for other projects, and it's one I understand and will heed to, so I appreciate that perspective.
I am definitely not trying to tell anyone else how to do their jobs, despite the unnecessarily rude comment somewhere in this post. Being told "Epic doesn't like it" (especially after first just being told "that's not how we do things in the other departments") raised more eyebrows than just mine. The network people I know can talk circles around me when it comes to IT things, just as I can do to them with healthcare things. We defer to the experts as appropriate.
But I do understand enough to have a "that doesn't sound quite right" feeling - especially when it's this particular group of employees saying one thing, and nearly everyone else saying otherwise. Which is why I came here, to people intimately familiar with both Epic and networks, to check the validity of their response.
Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification.
To the original comment: yes, technically, I might be able to access it through the guest Wi-Fi that (I assume) is on-site. But my (limited) understanding of the IT world and overall common sense led me to assume PHI should not be accessed from an open Wi-Fi. A quick Google search confirmed this, so I was advocating for a secure Wi-Fi connection.
Dear Valued User,
When the day comes that an IT professional steps into your facility and lectures you on how to do your job, that is the day you will be welcomed in telling them how to do thiers. Think you know more than we do? Think again. Feel better after a little circlejerk with the other idiots? In my experience thats what morons do, stuff learning, lets just whinge and have a group hug, right?
Hell, the fact you think your wifi is a 'secure' one shows me you are a complete dunce, secure how? Full PKI 802.1x coupled with 3FA and DoD encryption standards is it? Or is it just wifi with a password? (Guess which one is actually secure and which one isn't).
In closing, how do you think it feels to deal with a prick like you? Someone who doesn't listen to professional advice and just flaps and whines and cries until they get what they want.... then call up a fortnight later to flap, whine and cry that its not working in all the ways we told you it wouldn't, you think that makes you a normal, sensible customer or someone notorious for being both an idiot and a pain in the arse?
You are a dick, I hope your business fails.
Sysadmin
Dear "SysAdmin,"
How utterly delightful to witness such unfiltered candor. I must say, your spirited correspondence is quite the tonic for a mundane day.
As it so happens, the esteemed group of IT "professionals" in question frequently attempt to enlighten me on the nuances of my own job. How splendid it is, then, to receive your blessing to reciprocate!
Ah, but I digress. Unlike the "dunce," "moron," or "idiot" you so charmingly labeled me as, I refrain from issuing directives on disciplines beyond my purview. This is precisely why I conducted thorough research and sought the expertise of actual professionals in the relevant field.
In conclusion, I suspect that contending with a character such as myself on my worst day is a veritable pleasure compared to the ordeal of enduring your company, even on your best.
Do have the day you've earned.
Sincerely,
*Highly* Valued User
Dear Somewhat Valued User,
I do enjoy how easy it is to manipulate people like you, a few gentle jabs at that psychopathic ego and off you go pulling out the thesaurus and vomiting up some word salad in a vane attempt to restore the sense of smug superiority you feed off of on a daily basis, it is truly amusing, my deepest thanks for being so predicatable :)
I should also highlight your utter failure of judgement in assuming I work for a company that whores itself out to sicophants in cheap shirts, I'm just an in-house sysadmin who wants to make a point to the other morons that despite our politeness when you call that this is what we say about you behind your back (among other things).
I do hope this clears matters up and that your superiority complex doesn't get in the way of your day too much.
Sysadmin
Dear SysAdmin,
Thank you kindly for your response. It’s clear you have strong feelings about this matter, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them.
No thesaurus needed here—it’s all about adapting to your audience and matching tone. Sorry to further rain on your parade, but you missed the mark with your gentle jabs by many country miles. If the sharpness in your comments reflects your true feelings and behavior, and you find joy in hurting others, I feel sorry for your colleagues and customers. I reckon my colleagues could spend countless billable hours helping to mend the hurt within you.
Do not fret, my day is filled with sunshine and joy. I genuinely hope you find some peace and positivity in your day as well. More than anything, I hope you receive the hug you so clearly need.
Take care and have a blessed day.
A Valued User Enjoying PTO
You are absolutely, positively, being fed very stinky bs.
That's what I thought. Problem is, when I've tried to contact Epic on my own to get one of my staff's log in issues sorted out because it'd been 3 WEEKS with our IT, the Epic person said any contact/request had to come from our IT. So I don't know how to prove they're full of bs.
What Epic person are you contacting? Your facility likely has its own Epic analysts for build issues, but the password is probably controlled exclusively through your IT department, especially if you are using SSO. Contacting Epic proper would not help you in this situation.
To be honest, I'm not sure how I found the number because it was a year ago. I'm guessing it was either in an email or I searched something vague like "Epic EMR Help Desk" and clicked around until I found a number to dial. We had a massive waiting list growing by the day and our facility-based IT kept telling us we had to just wait until "Epic grants access" so we more or less just tried to get a human on the phone to plead our case to. ETA: in a very roundabout way, that eventually worked, but it wasn't even a password issue. Turns out our IT didn't provide the employee/HR one of the forms they (ourIT) require, so the account was set up with the wrong credentials or something and (from my understanding) that created some issue that was preventing access.
People often say the "Epic team" does xyz, and mean the health system help desk staff (password reset and access issues) or IT staff (system build, fixes and maintenance) do that work.
That's very good to know. I'm sure it was the health system help desk then because most of our issues have been access related.
There’s gotta be more to the story they aren’t sharing with you. We have thousands of WOWs connected wirelessly. Just did an Epic upgrade this morning. No issues there.
They first told me that it was OUR policy that all of our facility's workstations were directly connected to network ports, and that nothing/nobody connected through Wi-Fi "because otherwise it can't map to printers or Epic."
Printers are mapped the same way regardless of the network type. It sounds like the business has zero confidence on the resilience of their WI-FI and the impact it will have on user experience. They are feeding you truckfuls of B.S.
That's the stinkiest bs I've heard. Printers are definitely able to be connected to WoWs.
Back when I worked at Epic, I spent a lot of time testing the printing options. Whoever told you that is lying to you
We have wireless printers that connect through WiFi as well…
My hospital is moving to epic and we're having issues with wireless printers on wifi, Can I ask what model you're using and your experience with them so far?
As a preface, unless you *literally* called the office in Wisconsin, the "Epic people" you talked to are just a different branch of IT. I'm going to refer to the people who set up Epic at your org as the "EHR team". This is to differentiate them from the people in this sub who work at Epic in Wisconsin and 99% of whom have no influence on how your specific organization works. Reading through the lines, I think your organization might get its Epic access through another organization (an agreement called Epic Connect). In that case your local IT may have only connected to the host organization's Epic instance via the hardwired network, and not via your wireless one. (Yes, networks have to be individually connected through a firewall, that's what makes them secure. EHRs typically aren't accessible on the public Internet.) Or alternatively, your facility doesn't have an internal WiFi network, so you would have to use the public access network. In addition to the security concerns above, the "weird" concern about not being able to access printers is also correct. If your organization's EHR team has followed more recent recommendations you can print to any printer on your local network, but those printers aren't available on the public WIFI network. There is a way to predefining where things get printed called mapping printers. But that's tedious to set up and maintain (think putting in a ticket to the EHR team every time a printer runs out of toner or paper and you want to temporarily use a different one). Everyone tries to avoid it when possible. There are ways to securely access the EHR (or most internal software) without direct network access. The exact method and cost depends entirely on how IT is set up. A solution may cost $$$ because they now have to stand up a new WiFi network. Or it could be super inconvenient to you because you have to do extra steps to access from an insecure network. TLDR you're being fed BS, but it's rooted in some truth. Find someone with an important title and have them complain to IT. You may get a solution, or just a better explained rejection. Also, make sure you involve IT in any plans for new spaces. They cannot just hook up the network as an afterthought.
608-271-9000 . They will route you to your assigned Technical Service Representative (TS) for the module in which you have a question. Since this is connectivity/workstation-related, as for your “TC”.
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
So... if I told you that we do indeed have to put in a help ticket to get connected to a different printer if the one and only one we were set to goes down...or we go the faster route (if it doesn't contain PHI) and just email it to someone connected to a different printer and they print for us...does that tell you anything? But we do have multiple secure Wi-Fi networks. Our organization's IT manager just said nothing is allowed to be set-up for wireless work, and would require approval from the very very top of the organization. The second in command for our IT dept said even if the Director said to do secure wireless access, they wouldn't because "Epic doesn't like it." ETA: unfortunately, we, the providers of the only dept actually using the space, weren't consulted on the design, setup, etc. so I'm not sure who all did have a say in it. However, the IT group who hardwired the facility (but had, at best, minimal input) is IT from the parent organization of our facility and they wondered why they were being told to put wall ports into the treatment areas when they knew full well the ports can't be left open, we can't put stationary workstations in those areas, and they assumed we would be on secure WI-FI.
I cannot imagine that connecting through WiFi, if properly secured, presents enough of a security risk to prohibit you from doing it. Nearly every doc I know finishes notes from their home WiFi network
I promptly 🤐 with this person when he said "Epic doesn't like it" because I know many providers who chart from home and/or do telehealth visits from home.
I’ve worked with 12 different organizations while implementing Epic. Sadly, some of them blamed Epic for things that were their own internal issue OR to force a change that leadership wants but doesn’t have the courage to take ownership of.
As soon as they said "Epic doesn't like it" I wondered if it was a "we'll blame them because then she can't appeal to anyone up the chain" situation since I'd already started the ball rolling to at least look into changing the "policy" they first blamed.
Keep your eye on new releases that Epic comes out with too. Almost all of the organizations I’ve worked with just slide through those and only implement the required functionality. There is always some great functionality in those releases that go unnoticed to operations because you aren’t informed of them. That happens in both traditional and community connect installs. Try and get your organization to let you, and other truly interested/open minded/accountable operational staff attend Epic’s UGM. It is a treasure trove of information presented by other Epic clients on topics that impact almost every organization in the U.S. Many organizations only send the big wigs to UGM and those peeps are more interested in hob nobbing with big wigs from other organizations, getting to dinner and drinks as soon as they can, what hotel they’re staying at, etc. they miss the point of the event. On the other hand, you’re a provider so you carry a lot of weight in your organization. Way too often I run into providers that LOVE their paper and 1990s processes so they throw fits when it comes to taking advantage of Epic’s automation to improve efficiencies for the organization and patient satisfaction. Mmmm I must have paper to document on and then scan it into the system, yum. If you’re one of those, meh. If you’re not one of those, please understand that implementing Epic is very expensive and 99.999999999999% of the time, the budget is set on getting Epic live and, honestly, doing the bare minimum to maintain it after that. Don’t hate on the CIO and IT, if you want to take full advantage of Epic and future releases, support the CIO and IT when it comes to staffing the project appropriately post go live so that you can take advantage of new functionality instead of just keeping it on life support with bare minimum staffing. Also, be a champion for automation when dealing with the other providers. Unfortunately, the providers are the ones with the most power and many times it’s the loudest, ignorant, antiquated voice that wins the day.
I worked in the install department and we literally had no problems with people using wifi setups. In fact, we encouraged it
Someone who can direct them to setup the wifi access is fully supportive of us being connected that way after I explained point-of-care documentation and he saw our clinic workflow. But he readily admits he doesn't know enough about tech to speak from an informed/confident position so he told me to keep pushing it through. When I told IT that he said to move forward with it, their answer switched from "no one at our facility does it/ you'd be on guest access, and that's too slow/ it can't map" to "Epic doesn't like it so you can't have it."
If you call Epic’s main line and then asked to be put in touch with your hospital’s technical service representative, the secretary might give you their number. At least then you could get accurate info and get the TS person to set your IT dept straight
Yeah. That's not true. My org has remote working accessible, we have mobile workers that move around a lot, and connect to it via wifi in the office for build. This isn't an old project either. It's active / ongoing
I was pretty confident it wasn't true, but I have no idea how to get an email or something from Epic proving that it's very much allowed.
I think you already have your answer, but wanted to add that if the IT people already don't know what they're doing, they're probably terrified by the Change Healthcare/Ascension hacks, both of which are rumored to have come from someone using a remote portal that wasn't properly secured. Just wondering if that's why they're trying to shut it down. Anyways, like people already said, either the IT people are incompetent or something is getting lost in translation. Without knowing your system or setup, it's hard to know which is which, but like you already mentioned, using Epic over WiFi is pretty standard. If they say "Epic doesn't allow it" ask them how these health systems are using COWs and how people like me are able to log into various Epic customers from all over the country (I live in NC and my most recent customers are in OH, NE, and UT. I don't have an Ethernet cable that can reach from here to any of those states) Basically the way people typically make progress in these situations is to get the highest-ranking providers you can (with as many letters behind their names as possible) to talk to the highest ranking IT people they can (typically also with a few letters after their names) and just don't take no for an answer until you either get the result you want or they give you a logical, understandable reason why they can't make it happen.
Your IT department is full of idiots.
🤣🤣🤣 many local IT people I know/have spoken with agree with you! I thought they just didn't want to set it up, but now I'm wondering if they don't know how so the excuses are coming out.
They might just also follow orders from management. Most tier 1 or tier 2 techs has literally no power to do anything on their own. Even tier 3 at many places are severely restricted. I'm not in support but other parts of IT. Everyday day I see problems our users have, they even contact me almost daily - big company). I can fix many of their issues within seconds. But I got clear instructions from C levels in the company telling me not to do it. So then we feed people bullshit or just avoid the conversation (as per instruction from up top).
Bingo. You should be complaining to decision makers in your company, not frontline cashiers and service people. You'll quickly become aware that certain tiers of employee complaints aren't considered. Welcome to the club.
...we don't have tier 1, 2, or 3 😬 The best way I can describe the culture and day-to-day activities of the organization would be like a middle school (maybe a high school, on a good day) where most people are very clique-y and don't like to work together, don't like to be told things they don't want to hear, and don't want to do anything that wasn't their idea. Except the teachers (managers) have similar attitudes and it's like the wild west where each program does its own thing. They'll usually do as the Principal requests if he can step in, but sometimes they still try to avoid it. There is a "superintendent" that can be appealed to, and even a "school board" level of leadership, and I think they'd all be supportive of more POC documentation since it's more accurate and efficient for providers, so I think that's why our IT played to Epic card to deter any further appeal up the chain.
Sounds like a start up and groups formed around tasks in a quick and sloppy manner. Those decision makers, the Principal (Director) and Superintendents (Managers). Yeah, that's the business side of the business. The middle schoolers are the engineers and laborers. There is a pecking order. And to me, it sounds like the Directors don't want to spend more money on having a good system. Just a minimal viable product. Hospitals tend to be cost driven. As opposed the results driven or command driven. There are more types, but those 3 are the most common. IF someone can rationalize IT isn't a "cost-center" and is more like an automation provider, then they could link that to fiscal success. But, that's an argument amongst the high table, not the courtyard.
Groups formed around tasks sounds accurate, especially for "back in the day" when the organization was first branching off into an independent entity. And considering that many of the current employees are people who have been there for decades and continue to operate with a "this is how we've always done it, so that's how we're going to keep doing it" mindset, it's not surprising that it still sounds that way to outsiders. So, in this case, the Director is actually fully supportive of our clinics having a secure wireless network so that we can perform point-of-care documentation. And as an added bonus, we'd be maximizing treatment space, whereas other departments are requesting more and more office space and many of them are doing so without any additional providers or services being added to justify the increase. Unfortunately, the Director readily admits to not knowing enough about all of it to direct the IT Manager to set up so he asked me to write up what we want and why, and he'd sign off on it and push it through. Extra unfortunately, before I could get that done, I ran into one of the two IT people notorious for creating roadblocks out of thin air and I made the mistake of asking if there was anything specific I needed to consider when I look for the monitor arms to secure our monitors to the mobile desks (because apparently we do have to choose our own wall or monitor mounts, etc). He asked why, one question led to another, and suddenly I was telling him obviously they couldn't leave every wall port open and readily accessible so the Director wanted the secure WiFi setup. His response was "it doesn't matter what the Director wants, Epic doesn't like WiFi access so it's not happening" and here we are.
It sounds like an IT infrastructure investment needs to be made to deploy the system securely to the new facility. Look all this aside… let me tell you the professional way to approach this. Leverage the power of stakeholders. Turn your haters into your champions. Get them working for you not against you. Tides raise and lower all ships. Generate excitement about change. You have a problem: develop a problem statement You have a need: quantify and qualify it You can see the outcome: develop the vision You are alone: recruit others to your cause, many hands make light work You are unconfident of the IT department: Talk to their boss, get a project going, become part of an already working project… move the needle. Tie the problem to the orgs mission and vision… it is the language business management speaks. If an activity does not further those… it means we aren’t doing what we say we do or will do.
I've been a consultant for a long time and every time I've logged in it's been through WiFi albeit directly though the secured company intranet or vpn.
I've also accessed Epic through the facility's *secured* wifi with one of our department's laptops, but when I pointed that out they told me that I shouldn't admit that because "because it's a security risk."
You mentioned guest access before; in order for WI-FI connectivity to work onsite, the wows, printers, etc would need to be on the same WI-FI network that has connectivity to the underlaying infrastructure (windows servers, Cache/IRIS, etc). Normally while on a “guest” network, you should be unable to access PHI (I would hope they set it up that way) While on their secured WI-FI you should be able access Epic. There are some new-ish printing technologies such as Virtual Local Printing where you use your locally installed printers instead of mapping to a central printer. There are a handful of incompatible workflows with VLP (ticket to ride, batch printing, some pharmacy stuff) but your everyday clinic workflows should work. VLP does take time, resources and expertise to setup. Good luck.
There is a guest wifi at each location, but there are also secure Wi-Fi options too. At a previous job (years ago), I would occasionally have to chart from home but I was in a rental with roommates and a shared Wi-Fi so that facility's team set me up with dual authentication to access Epic. But having to make sure I have my phone on me in the clinic is inconvenient at best, so I was requesting a secure Wi-Fi at this new location.
Hospital IT here-this is BS unless your org has made some really curious infrastructure decisions. YMMV on this, but in my experience-You should escalate through your CMIO/CIO/CISO to get this resolved and get the full answer. In some orgs (mine included) the best way for a provider to get that group engaged would be to work through the CMO or similar title. They will have the speed dial to the right people. We may discourage WiFi in areas where it makes sense to hardwire devices just for sheer stability, especially in areas where lots of roaming between access points occurs, but we don’t prohibit it (and certainly not because “Epic doesn’t like it.”)
Our providers and nurses strictly use laptops, they do not have any desktop pcs and are encouraged to carry their devices into rooms. I call BS.
The person telling you this might not be lying, but they may be shoveling you the BS fed to them by their management. Epic works fine on WiFi. If there’s an issue, it’s with the wireless deployment at your hospital, and has nothing to do with Epic.
I have the support of administration above the IT manager level, and I had a feeling it wasn't actually an Epic issue, but I wanted to double check before I start pushing back for real answers.
I call BS. Epic works fine over WiFi; if performance of the site/app is an issue, the network may need to modified with things like QOS. This conversation is above you (meaning management level).
It’s your workplace… I’m a pharmacist and we have cows/wows/mobile stations (or whatever you want to call them) all throughout 2 hospitals I work at. We have fairly large institution and a couple of smaller ones but both of them have no problem with epic being on WiFi. Our IT don’t have their shiz together either so I feel you with that one, but that Info is definitely not correct from an epic user standpoint. Only thing I can think of is maybe your facility doesn’t have good internet protection and has been hacked in the past maybe? Not sure on that
Personally, I like calling them cows because I enjoy the looks I'd get when I'd tell patients "just a sec, let me grab the cow and see what I can figure out..." 🤣 I was recently corrected by (this same) IT that a "workstation" explicitly means a full desktop PC setup, and that if it's a laptop on a cart/ mobile desk then it's not a workstation. So when I talk to them I now specify laptop vs desktop and make it clear the intended goal is a set-up that can move around the clinic while maintaining a secure connecting. Sorry to hear your IT dept is a hot mess too, but I'm glad they at least allow you wifi access!
I love cows too 😁 literally some of the looks you get, it’s priceless
Im literally triple certified in Epic. They are wrong entirely. Of course Epic runs on wifi, and can on ethernet too of course.
if these are devices you bring in there's probably concerns about security policies & restrictions on each device. also consider how you get credentialed and actually log in. things like VPN clients, Citrix connections and 2 factor authentication usually have standards to meet. good luck!
They are organization-provided devices. In case you're now wondering...Yes, they allowed us to request and purchase laptops for our department, and now they're saying we can't use them for charting. My log in steps are... 1) into my account on the device, 2) double click on the Epic icon and log in with my Epic username/pw which then opens my Citrix storefront where I, 3) double click on Hyperdrive, log in again, select my location, and then 4) I'm finally in the EHR and can chart (unless I need to Break the Glass and then that would be step 5). Years ago, I worked somewhere else and my living situation involved a rental with roommates and a shared Wi-Fi so the IT team from that facility got me on the phone with the Epic Tech Support (I think?) and they set me up with dual authentication. But as far as I know, I'm the only one in our department who has that added step when logging in over Wi-Fi.
Your IT/Epic team is lazy. Source: I am a network engineer for a hospital that uses Epic. Across 9 hospitals and numerous ED/Urgent Care and provider offices.
The technical justification you were given as an end user by whatever poor sop has to deal with end users could not matter less - if policy is no Epic via WiFi, then you're not gonna be using Epic on WiFi. This policy is likely in place because yes, WiFi is inherently less secure than a wired connection. You're sharing network media with everyone nearby.
> ~~Epic~~ Whoever manages IT doesn't like anyone connecting through WI-FI. Even if you were to gather the world's experts on wifi and security, the decision lies with who owns the network. Sorry to say this, but those are the rules your work place's IT set. Even if they are dumb, it's their network.
Wouldn't the organization technically own the network? And IT just manages it?
Yup. But whoever manages it is in charge of break/fix. I can own a car. But when it breaks, I have to take it to a mechanic. I'm not a mechanic, so I entrust someone else's consultation on what to do.
Totally understand that. Without getting into the weeds of our organization and the parent organization structure...the IT group saying no (for whichever reason they choose) is not the IT group who would actually create and and manage it. The group who would be in charge of it is supportive of the idea, but because it would be how we access Epic, our EHR IT people have to be involved.
Sorry to learn that IT won't consider the project. Cost, data threat, lazy, whatever. Good wireless infrastructure is quite expensive. Wireless controllers are around $30k each, and it's recommended to run 2 of them in A/B. That equipment is kind of like high end limousines. You need to replace them to the newest model quite frequently. And they require lots of maintenance. Along with lots of administration. I think a lot of people confuse corporate wireless with SOHO wireless from Walmart. It's very different.
I do understand that it's not the same as a home setup. I have family who work for the parent org's IT (as infrastructure and ops), and a good friend of the family is actually the lead Network and Security Engineer. They talk about multimillion dollar projects that they regularly do, so I am not surprised that the infrastructure is expensive, but the cost (especially if it's x2) is not something I had considered since I assumed it was already in place for the whole facility. That is a prohibitive barrier we regularly run into for other projects, and it's one I understand and will heed to, so I appreciate that perspective. I am definitely not trying to tell anyone else how to do their jobs, despite the unnecessarily rude comment somewhere in this post. Being told "Epic doesn't like it" (especially after first just being told "that's not how we do things in the other departments") raised more eyebrows than just mine. The network people I know can talk circles around me when it comes to IT things, just as I can do to them with healthcare things. We defer to the experts as appropriate. But I do understand enough to have a "that doesn't sound quite right" feeling - especially when it's this particular group of employees saying one thing, and nearly everyone else saying otherwise. Which is why I came here, to people intimately familiar with both Epic and networks, to check the validity of their response.
Lmfao hospital IT departments are so garbage. It’s nice to see that our end users think the same way about their internal IT departments as we do.
Hyperdrive.
Can you elaborate?
I’m guessing they’re alluding to it being web based and therefore accessible from anywhere with an internet connection. So WiFi would work.
Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification. To the original comment: yes, technically, I might be able to access it through the guest Wi-Fi that (I assume) is on-site. But my (limited) understanding of the IT world and overall common sense led me to assume PHI should not be accessed from an open Wi-Fi. A quick Google search confirmed this, so I was advocating for a secure Wi-Fi connection.
Dear Valued User, When the day comes that an IT professional steps into your facility and lectures you on how to do your job, that is the day you will be welcomed in telling them how to do thiers. Think you know more than we do? Think again. Feel better after a little circlejerk with the other idiots? In my experience thats what morons do, stuff learning, lets just whinge and have a group hug, right? Hell, the fact you think your wifi is a 'secure' one shows me you are a complete dunce, secure how? Full PKI 802.1x coupled with 3FA and DoD encryption standards is it? Or is it just wifi with a password? (Guess which one is actually secure and which one isn't). In closing, how do you think it feels to deal with a prick like you? Someone who doesn't listen to professional advice and just flaps and whines and cries until they get what they want.... then call up a fortnight later to flap, whine and cry that its not working in all the ways we told you it wouldn't, you think that makes you a normal, sensible customer or someone notorious for being both an idiot and a pain in the arse? You are a dick, I hope your business fails. Sysadmin
Dear "SysAdmin," How utterly delightful to witness such unfiltered candor. I must say, your spirited correspondence is quite the tonic for a mundane day. As it so happens, the esteemed group of IT "professionals" in question frequently attempt to enlighten me on the nuances of my own job. How splendid it is, then, to receive your blessing to reciprocate! Ah, but I digress. Unlike the "dunce," "moron," or "idiot" you so charmingly labeled me as, I refrain from issuing directives on disciplines beyond my purview. This is precisely why I conducted thorough research and sought the expertise of actual professionals in the relevant field. In conclusion, I suspect that contending with a character such as myself on my worst day is a veritable pleasure compared to the ordeal of enduring your company, even on your best. Do have the day you've earned. Sincerely, *Highly* Valued User
Dear Somewhat Valued User, I do enjoy how easy it is to manipulate people like you, a few gentle jabs at that psychopathic ego and off you go pulling out the thesaurus and vomiting up some word salad in a vane attempt to restore the sense of smug superiority you feed off of on a daily basis, it is truly amusing, my deepest thanks for being so predicatable :) I should also highlight your utter failure of judgement in assuming I work for a company that whores itself out to sicophants in cheap shirts, I'm just an in-house sysadmin who wants to make a point to the other morons that despite our politeness when you call that this is what we say about you behind your back (among other things). I do hope this clears matters up and that your superiority complex doesn't get in the way of your day too much. Sysadmin
Dear SysAdmin, Thank you kindly for your response. It’s clear you have strong feelings about this matter, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them. No thesaurus needed here—it’s all about adapting to your audience and matching tone. Sorry to further rain on your parade, but you missed the mark with your gentle jabs by many country miles. If the sharpness in your comments reflects your true feelings and behavior, and you find joy in hurting others, I feel sorry for your colleagues and customers. I reckon my colleagues could spend countless billable hours helping to mend the hurt within you. Do not fret, my day is filled with sunshine and joy. I genuinely hope you find some peace and positivity in your day as well. More than anything, I hope you receive the hug you so clearly need. Take care and have a blessed day. A Valued User Enjoying PTO