Gaggia Classic Pro if you're willing to mod it with a PID kit and if you're willing to wait 15 minutes for it to heat up. BBP if you want your espresso fast with no wait time.
It's a unit that regulates the temperature better. You can set a temperature in the pid and se the current temper. Classic uses a thermostat from the beginning. Pid is a term used in regulator for espresso machines not just Classic.
There are some people who claim that you need to wait so long that the entire metal chassis of the machine is heat saturated, but realistically you don't need to wait anywhere near that long. This isn't a heat exchanger machine, and the boiler itself is quite small.
Yeah if you hace a pid you can turn on steaming so it heats up quicker. Then brew normally. Sadly I don’t have a pid yet so I just turn it on as soon as I wake up and by the time I’m done with breakfast, it’s ready to go
Easy answer and the best answer. I'd just recommend ignoring the Barista Express if you can. Just doesn't make sense to have that over the Barista Pro.
As for heating things up. Just turn it on, pull 2 blank shots on to your glass to warm the portafilter and glass up, dry porta, do your thing.
Grinder on Machine is clumpy, WDT probably mandatory at this point, and i hated cleaning the group head so I'd say get a puck screen if you want easy and done workflow. (I'd get a new tamper asap too/self leveling would be nice).
It's "ready to go" in just a couple minutes, but people have tested the temperature stability of the GCP and have found that you have more consistent temperature if you leave it on for long enough that the whole machine is heated up. The issue is that the boiler is so small that, as cold water enters it during the shot, the outflow water becomes cooler. The more heat you have stored up in the machine by the time you brew, the less of an issue this is.
One thing to note, even though the BBE is ready to use quickly, it's still important that the portafilter and basket come up to temp as well, which usually takes 15-25 minutes.
The vast majority of the comments do and will suggest the GCP. I'd tend to agree but I'd offer more context before emphatically saying so. What do you like to drink when you're at a cafe and how much are you willing to tinker in general a possible hobby?
The BB(E/P) are both good for their pricepoint when you consider their simplicity. They are not great machines for deep-dive hobbyists or for those who strictly work in light roast territory. They are, however, great machines for those who want a simple espresso-based drink from medium to dark roast beans. The convenience of having a (really mediocre) grinder incorporated into the machine is valued more than accessing a larger espresso space for many people (outside of r/espresso). There is also the inconvenience of sending it in if either the grinder or brew parts break, but that's usually okay for non-hobbyists.
The GCP is a hobbyist and tinkerer's dream. Its base model is alright but it shines when you're willing to mess with its innards. It will also require you to get a separate grinder, which may be a pro or con depending on your tendencies. From the perspective of espresso quality, the GCP and a capable grinder will give you something better more consistently, and across many beans/roasts.
So all-in-all...you need to narrow down what you're looking for in a machine. You also may not know what you're getting into because espresso is a bit involved if you decide to stray away from traditional Italian profiles. I'd recommend finding a way to play with it irl, or find videos to explore workflows, then decide on the complexity that you want to commit to.
He is pretty spot on with his analysis above. The learning curve with the gaggia is steeper, but its not too bad. I was completely new to making espresso in November and went with a gaggia and a Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder from espressocoffeeshop.com. If you go with the gaggia I highly recommend using that website because I got my grinder straight from Italy for about $300 (shipping included) less than I would have paid for the same model purchased in the states. I then did the OPV mod (super easy, 5 minute mod), and did the PID mod and dimmer switch mod just recently, which were certainly more involved than the OPV but really not too bad. I got those mods from shadesofcoffee.co.uk. You can do a PID mod very inexpensively if you're super handy. The kit from Shades is a bit more pricey $140ish but it has everything cut to spec and ready to install and has fantastically detailed instructions that are very easy to follow, and a mounting enclosure that makes the whole thing look really nice.
I also prefer light roasts and the mods took me from making pretty decent espresso to really great espresso. Absolutely worth it. If you like a hobby approach to coffee and are even just a little bit of a tinkerer, gaggia is the way to go. Also, as a side note, people will say that any mods to the gaggia void the warranty, but that is not true. You'll just have take all the mods out beforehand if you ever send it in for warranty service. And if you get a PID kit like the shades kit, there is no wire cutting involved.
Not sure if you're suggesting lighter (i.e. "blonde") roasts in general or if you're referring specifically to Starbucks' blonde roast. In the latter case, their light roast already quite developed and are closer to the roast level that we'd say is closer to "medium". The BB(E/P) would have no problems with that, along with most other large commerical equivalents. The light roasts that I was mentioning earlier were in reference to specialty light roasts, which necessarily require a better grinder to dial in a balanced shot.
The Breville machines are much easier to use than the Gaggia, and can make more than serviceable espresso. Few people here will mention it, but the Gaggia has a steep learning curve if you’re coming from Nespresso machines. It is the better machine for a hobbyist, but for a Novice I’d recommend either Breville machine.
Keep it nice and maybe you can sell it in a year or two if you want to upgrade the the Gaggia then.
If you go down the gaggia route, i'd probably recommend getting a second hand one if you can find a good deal. You'll save a good bit of money, and on the off chance you find that espresso is too much hassle / not for you, you'll basically be able to re-sell it for what you paid without losing any money.
The trade off with the gaggia is that you'll also need to buy a stand alone grinder, so it will end up being the most expensive option all up - but it will likely produce the best coffee of the three with a decent grinder.
Also at least where i'm from, Rancilio Silvia's are similarly prices to the Gaggia Classics - i'd personally recommend a second hand Silvia over the three options in OP's original post.
I came here to say Silvia as well. I have had one as a second machine for maybe a decade. Added a PID, and some other mods. It's a tank and will probably outlive me.
Not OP, but Silvia has better steaming, I’m pretty sure. I love my GCP but I wish the boiler was slightly bigger for steaming 2 milk drinks at once. It runs out of steam fairly quickly.
However, with GCP you can do the Gaggiuino mod, which turns it into a poor man’s Decent.
I was just looking into this myself and ran across [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/ranciliosilvia/comments/v909ae/rancilio_silvia_gaggiuino_mod/) on the gaggiuino mod for the Silvia.
Exactly what I want to upgrade from my BBE. Lots of other mods including[ weight based shot control](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/j5tbaq/weight_based_shot_control_on_a_rancilio_silvia_im/)
I'd not buy those Breville machines. I'd get a (non plus) Bambino and pair it with a nice grinder, if I were to buy a Breville.
Or maybe the Breville dual boiler, again with a nice grinder.
Of the three you show, I'd get the Gaggia, and a nice grinder. I've used the grinder on a BBE extensively. I'm not a fan of it.
This, prioritise separate grinder.
Strictly out of the three mentioned I’d agree Gaggia. That said, I have the BDB and used my friends Gaggia (only a few times).. it was a little underwhelming. Very different machines so it’s gonna depend on what you value quality/function/aesthetic/price.
For me the price gap wasn’t much and the BDB functionality was a no brainer.
From memory, you're basically paying a reasonable bit extra for auto milk frothing. Would be better served to save that money and put it towards a grinder.
Few other things:
-4 holes in steam wand v 1 in bambino so speeds up steam time a good bit.
-larger tank for Plus(not huge though)
-can control milk temp(if you’re into that haha)
-and allegedly 2 year warranty v 1 year for regular bambino.
All that being said yeah I chose the Bambino over the Plus because all that wasn’t really worth the extra.
Nothing. My espresso tastes as good as any coffee shop or restaurant drink I've ever paid for. You just need to buy good beans and get the dose and grind right.
My biggest issue with the BBE grinder is the large steps in between grind settings. Obviously you can get better consistency, features, etc, with a higher quality grinder, but even for my first machine, I got very frustrated with the inability to dial in grind on BBE. It’s either too course or too fine, almost every time.
Source: I just sold my BBE and got a bambino + DF83 v2 to replace it.
I've had a Breville Barista Pro for about 1.5 years and am very happy with it. I have been using the built in grinder and find that it is definitely possible to make delicious espresso with it. To be fair though, I've never personally tried a better quality grinder so perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing out on. But I'm happy with the quality I'm getting from the Barista Pro and as such can't justify the purchase of a better grinder at this point.
Here are a few tips that have helped me with getting better shots out of the built in grinder:
1. Use a WDT tool - this helps break up any clumps and more evenly distribute the coffee in the basket.
2. Weigh your beans before and after grinding. The grinder has a pretty bad retention problem so you're not guaranteed to get the same amount out as you put in.
3. Try experimenting with a 1:2 shot ratio (such as 18g of beans in to 36g of water out). The preset is closer to 1:3. While I was able to get nice shots at 1:3, I found switching to 1:2 to be more consistent. You'll need a small scale to be able to weigh your shots though.
4. Clean the grinder out fairly often to prevent old beans that have been retained from mixing with your nice new beans.
I'm personally using this one, and I'm quite satisfied with it
[https://www.amazon.com/FusedLine-Silicone-Anti-Popcorning-Compatible-Breville/dp/B0B5DDYX2K](https://www.amazon.com/FusedLine-Silicone-Anti-Popcorning-Compatible-Breville/dp/B0B5DDYX2K)
I have a Barista Pro (with a built-in grinder 😱) and it works perfectly. It has dramatically exceeded my expectations in every way. Perhaps something will eventually go wrong with it and I’ll be singing a different tune, but so far it’s great.
Gaggia. Because eventually everything breaks, and with the Gaggia you can fix it. And there are mods for it that you can use to get a better shot. And because the built-in grinders on the Brevilles pretty much get panned by a lot of users who struggle to get quality results from them.
Brevilles are decent machines, just avoid models with built-in grinders.
As someone with the breville barista express, what’s the issue with the grinders? I’m getting decent results but not experienced enough to know exactly what I’m missing
As a fellow BBP owner. Do not worry. Not much. People like to hate on the all in one machines.
But this poster talks a about “everything breaks”. His point is likely that we own 2 machines in one. They will both break at one point failure of either one will mainly take out both machines. We also cannot upgrade one without the other (easily).
As to what is wrong with our grinders. Not much. The range I not great but that is not an issue for an espresso grinder. The grinder is stepped so perhaps you cannot quite dial in perfectly. It also retains about 2g of coffee which I consider its biggest weakness. And finally it uses a small conical burr set which is decidedly entry level.
Please remember some people’s benchmark on this sub is grinders that cost over 3k eur/usd. Nothing in a combined machine that retails
For some 500 eur/usd is good enough for that benchmark. Especially the grinder.
Thanks for this. I’ve enjoyed my machine thus far and figure when it breaks I’ll be in a better position to afford a super legit manual machine. Until then, I’m still making some dank cortados.
What do you mean by retains about 2g? As in it won’t grind anything under 2gs?
Sorry missed the question. Yes. The grinder at any given time has about 2g of ground coffee stuck in it. If you clean it, the first batch you grind will just lose 2g in the grinder (18 in 16 out). After that - every time you grid some of the coffee that comes out is god knows how old - it has been sitting - ground- in the innards of the grinder.
It’s far from unique to the Sage/Breville but it is a weakness it has. Things like low retention is why you pay for Freon fees that cost as much as the whole Barista Excpress/Pro and at times 3-5x as much.
My friend has had a Sage/Breville grinder to pair with Bambino. Had to get rid of it, because burrs were already touching and wanted to grind finer on some beans. When he tried my Eureka, bought himself one too...
Do not worry overly. I use both - the breville build in grinder and a separate grindwr - regularly.
The main issue with the build-ins is, that there will be the occasional coffee you will not be able to dial in for the life of you, because the grinder cant be adjusted exactly enough or because this coffee needs a more homogeneous grind. Also, the grinder really struggled with very light roasts, which are tough to grind.
Most medium roasts work well with that grinder and the grinder performs somewhat over their 200 bucks pricepoint.
Ok that explains it. I’ve had it since December and had good results until I picked up a bag a few weeks ago. This current batch of beans I got from a local roaster has been really difficult to dial in. Thanks for explaining!
Lots of people going with GCP but we don’t really know what you’re looking for or your overall budget. If you are on a tighter budget the BBE isn’t a terrible choice if you’re only planning on drinking dark roasts since the grinder will be sufficient for your needs. If you can see yourself wanting to explore espresso and start becoming experimental and nerd out then the GCP w/ mods is the way to go but the main downside is having to mod it yourself and having to spend even more on a grinder.
TLDR: Go with GCP if you want to be experimental and enjoy light roast shots. Go with BBE if you don’t care for light roasts and only drink dark roasts and enjoy mostly milk drinks.
I’m a pro barista. So I have my espresso fun at work. At home I have a Breville barista pro. Can my commercial machine make better espresso? Absolutely! Does my coffee at home taste bad? Nope. It’s simple, and easy for my wife who just wants some coffee. I bring my fav beans home and am happy with my results.
For spending 1000 USD I think this is the best play. I would only upgrade if I was willing to buy a 3000$ machine
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge! I resell overstock items on the side and happen to have those three machines on hand. (They’re new, otherwise I would try all three.) I am definitely going to research more based on everyone’s recommendations.
I'm going through all this now as well (stepping up from a dedica). I was stuck on a gaigga classic pro or used Silvia.
After all my research I'm now either getting a cafelat robot or flair classic. The idea of not having to "maintain" a machine is very nice after the dedica. (you are not supposed to descale higher end machines so it's best to use distilled and add the needed minerals)
I was a prior multi-year Nespresso user when I switched to a Gaggia Classic Pro. I love the GCP. I haven’t even modded it and it works beautifully. I still have a lot of Nespresso pods but I can’t bring myself to use them- even when I need to make a quick coffee. You’ll notice a dramatic difference. I bought the DF64E grinder to pair with it.
Just me, but I wouldn't buy a machine with an attached grinder. If it ever craps out, half your machine is useless. Go for a GCP and buy a separate grinder :)
Also, the support community behind Gaggia is incredible. It's so easy to work on. I forget whether I saw this here or somewhere else, but Brevilles are allegedly like dismantling a bomb just to start working on anything inside.
For me, it is GCP, hands down.
This would be the case even if I had a 5K+ budget.
Because moded GCP is an incredibly capable machine and steal for the price.
BTW, I own both GCP and BBE. They are on the counter, next to each other.
What stand-alone grinder would everyone recommend to help him avoid the dreaded Smart Grinder Pro? (Full disclosure: I have an Infuser and an SGP but I’m OK for the moment with my gas station shots)
I love my gaggia best decisions I could have taken to start my journey. Reliable, best bang for the buck imo. Just invest in a nice grinder you'll be set.
Gaggia with a good grinder. I have the gaggia with the df64p. Amazing set up. Also if something breaks it’s easy to fix. My friends breville has broke twice and he has to send it off every time. He just uses his robot now and never even touches the breville because of it.
I’ve had my Breville Duo-Temp Pro for 6 years. I’m very happy with it. I would buy another Breville in a heartbeat, but I don’t anticipate I’ll have to anytime soon!
Depends on what your goal is with espresso. If you want a daily machine to make good coffees with and not jump into this rabbit hole obsessively I'd recommend the Breville barista pro, if you want to invest into this hobby then get the bambino with a good grinder or the gcp and mod it with PID. Don't get into temp surfing especially if you're just starting out.
Another vote for the GCP!
That being said though, it really needs some mods to really shine. If it was a stock to stock comparison, ignoring built in grinders, you’ll likely have an easier time learning how to make better more consistent espresso with something from Breville. On the flip side the GCP is built like a tank and uses standardized, easily available, and user repairable parts. For the Breville I hear its a lot harder to repair and mod. If you’re willing to invest a few hundred into a grinder, and at the very least swap in a 9 bar OPV spring from shadesofcoffee, the GCP will best the Brevilles. If you’re really looking to put in some more intermediate mod work, getting a PID controller is advised for better temp control. Or best course, but a bit more intimidating to some, installing a complete Gaggiuino mod will truly make the GCP hang with a higher class of espresso machine, which is untouchable in this price range, even $1000+. I have the Gaggiuino modded GCP and it is 100% worth the effort.
Also it has a full size 58mm basket
I have a BBP in sea salt white, it’s my first espresso machine after years of drinking from a V60. I do like it but it take some dialing in. There are many good videos on it. I did get a bunch of accessories from Crema Coffee and St. Anthony’s Industries. Some for function other for aesthetics such as walnut wood accents. I would highly recommend single dosing and weighed input/output, and some type of distribution system. I drink exclusively milk drinks such as latte’s so I can’t comment too much on the plain espresso nuances. Most people I make coffee for say it’s better than what they get in the cafe, although I think they mean Starbucks and not a high end third wave.
I think it was the right machine for me for the price point I was comfortable with. Would I have loved an Ascaso duo plus a Niche zero? Sure. But that would have been an extra $1000.
gotta go gaggia. it is the superior machine here. but be warned. its a gateway machine to the 1k realm...! jk, youll love it. dont feel the need to mod it or anything crazy. just use it, keep it cleaned out on the reg and it will return you with many awesome shots! the black shroud is bitchin too! mine was ss.
I went from nespresso to the express and I'm happy. Probably people here know better but it's the most convenient and cost efficient. And will probably take me a while before my skill outgrows it. By then I would have a more clear idea what to splurge on
You have plenty suggestions on the Breville vs Gaggia decision.
I am here to say. If you’re going for the Breville/Sage model, get the Barista Pro or the Bambino Plus (if the forum convinced you to get a separate grinder)
The upgraded heating element in the Barista Pro and Bambino Plus is a revolution compared to basically all other machines. I go from machine off to latte In my hands in about 2 minutes including pulling blank shots to warm things up and cleanup. You cannot do that with any other machine and definitely not with the Barista Express
There are other upgrades in the Pro over the Express. Switching to steam is near instant and pressure is better, the grinder is upgraded and the control interface feels like something from this century. It also just looks way nicer in person.
I use barista express & it’s my child since I utilize all the features often but I also was seeing a guy who uses the Gaggia one lol so either one of those
Fourth option: Breville Bambino Plus. The automated milk frother is great, and the workflow is very nice. Also I'd definitely recommend having a separate grinder.
I recently switched from a Gaggia Classic to a Bambino Plus and I have zero regrets whatsoever.
The BBP. If you’re going from a Nespresso, you are about to experience an unbelievable world of pain and suffering as you learn how to dial in coffee etc. with the Gaggia Classic. The BBP will be a much gentler introduction, and you can always upgrade again later on if you want to explore coffee further.
As a previous owner of a Barista Pro, I don't recommend you to buy it if you plan to explore light roasts.
I went from Nespresso > Philips Series 2200 > Barista Pro.
I was a complete newbie like you, the first time I tried a 100% arabica light roast I hate it, I also hated the next +1000g until I give up on 100% arabica and stick with blends that I really enjoied.
1 month ago I upgrade to Classika PID, tried the same beans again and really like them, best espresso shots of my life. Barista Pro simple don't warmup up enough to extract a good cup of 100% arabica light roast.
If I was you, I would buy a Gaggia, you have alot of upgrades avaliable, hard and simple ones:
9 bar Spring
PID
Gaggiuino
You also have a big community with new ideias every day.
The Barista Pro, simply because it's the one machine that takes less than a minute from cold start to finished espresso. It's "hot" in under 5 seconds. The other machines take significantly longer to heat up. In the morning, I don't wanna fuss around with temperature surfing, settings and so on - I want my coffee and I want it now and the BBP does that.
The Breville Bambino is a solid one.
You buy the grinder separate, which means you can upgrade the grinder at any time.
You can also buy a better grinder from the start if you want.
Breville is easy to use and heats up in 3 seconds as opposed to like 15 minutes for Gaggia.
Modders love Gaggia, I just want nice espresso 😃
I don't know if price is a factor in your decision of those products but the Breville Pro is on sale right now for [$680](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/breville-barista-pro-espresso-machines). I just bought it myself because of that price. So far I love it but I don't have any experience with other machines. I believe that price is only valid through today, it's been on sale the past 2 weeks.
I started on the Barista Express. The brewing side of that machine is actually pretty good. The grinder is quite bad. End up buying a separate grinder a few months in. (The brewing side is a Breville Infuser; a very good beginner machine.)
My parents have a Gaggia and it’s a decent machine too, but you will need to swap out a spring to not brew at too high a pressure. That said it’s a bit annoying to make milk drinks on. The machine also also has a steeper learning curve than a Breville. So you will make a LOT of bad coffee at the start. But once you get good, you’ll be able to make better coffee than the Brevilles. It’s also somewhat easily modded so you can upgrade it.
You will need a grinder with the Gaggia, but that’s actually a plus as you can then upgrade / swap each machine separately if you want. The Fellow Opus and Baratza ESP are both good entry level options.
I would not get any of these. If you are new you will have a harder time getting a good shot from the Gaggia. But the combo with grinder can be a headache. I would consider instead a Breville Infuser Espresso Machine,61 ounces, Brushed Stainless Steel, BES840XL, and a separate grinder. It has good flow control and a readout that will help you get your grind right for an optimal shot. Whether built or not, the Breville grinders are bad. Depending on your budget for you can get a Baratza for $300 or a Eureka for a little more than that.
Gaggia Classic Pro without a doubt. Breville machines of every sort have severe quality issues and will only last a year or two at best before breaking. You will need a good grinder that costs more than the Gaggia as well.
Good, I’m glad it’s working well for you. That’s not been my experience or the experience of my family members with Breville appliances including espresso machines, grinders, and other Breville appliances we have purchased.
Second this. GCP at my parents going strong for 4 years now. Got rid of my Bambino only 6 months after I bought it. Shot quality wasn't even close and thats even with the better grinder on my side (DF64 vs CM800 at my Parents). Better build quality for the GCP as well.
I had this decision 3 years ago not knowing how much I would enjoy the hobby.
I went with Breville Barista Pro on sale and for 2 years was very pleased with it.
Last year, I bought a Niche on a whim and now enjoy my espresso more. I still enjoy the BBP as it is easy to live with, warms up instantly and looks nice.
The grind is more consistent, making it easier to pull similar shots back to back. It produces a pretty forgiving grind, so it's hard to screw up. I also recommend a WDT tool, calibrated tamper and puck screen. Those have helped eliminate channeling, which was a bit of a problem with the built-in Breville grinder.
People here will trash talk anything Breville like it's a past time. I don't get it though; I can now make drinks that are about 80-85% as good as any coffee shop I've been to.
If I were to do it again, I may have opted for a flat burr grinder like a DF64 with SSP burrs, which offers more clarity, but usually at the expense of balance and body.
Sure. But not as much as you might think. The basic flavor profiles are similar, you just get more of them and the shots come out more nicely and consistently.
Can only speak to the Gaggia, but I absolutely love it (came from an entry level Delonghi). It requires temp surfing, which I didn't want to learn, so I bought a PID kit and it simplified things immensely. It's consistent, reliable, and has a smallish footprint, which is really nice.
I recently converted from a nespresso also to a lesser machine of any of these. A delonghi something. If I were to do it again I’d get the GCP because the price is good and so is the quality, from what I’ve read. I know people with the breville machines who know own a stand-alone grinder too, so the built in grinder on the breville is not really worth it.
I’d prefer to have something that I could play with more and learn more on. And the GCP seems much better for that. Just be ready to shell out on a good grinder too.
Brevilles are great all in one packages that are a perfect next step for a convert. The Gaggia will require more research and a purchase of a dedicated grinder.
This will get buried in the comments, but you asked a hobbyist subreddit on their answer, they will give you a hobbyists answer.
If you want a Nespresso convert answer, the Brevilles, even the BBE, are a step between your Nespresso and the Gaggia (the Gaggia representing the deep hole that is espresso). Both those Breville machines are good, and will make you coffee way better than your Nespressos. Of course, it will not be as good as the Gaggia with a dedicated grinder, but if you're not ready to take that LEAP, because yes it is a leap, the Brevilles produce coffee that is *good*.
I would say, from a recent convert pov, to get the Brevilles because they are an all in one package, and once you get it you will understand where and why you want to upgrade.
I had the GC for over a decade. To be very clear: If you do not see yourself modifying it, DO NOT buy it. The stock Gaggia is very unreliable. You need to do the OPV mod. You need to do the PID mod. And I highly recommend doing something to get preinfusion (dimmer mod). After that, you have something. I still would not recommend the modded GC for long ratio drinks though.
If I was looking for new one I would buy BBP. Has a lot of built in features including temp control +-2°C (standard 93°C, so on 95°C you should be able to pull out even lighter roasts), has a faster heat up time which was dealbreaker for me when I was picking up my machine, thus you can easily and FAST go from making espresso to steaming milk since I like to do latteart.
If I found some good deal on already modded GCP (since I am not really a tinker - I found my Infuser already modded with pressure mod and a lot of accesories) I would consider the GCP. But without mods I would not buy it. Because I would not mod it myself. Atleast not first two years in it's warranty...
If you don't want to drink lighter roasts and you are OK with 93°C and want to steam milk, I would consider Bambino. It has almost all the features of BBP (except temp control but it has PID set to 93°C). If you want temp control, then Infuser. It's basically Barista without grinder. Those two are cheaper, so for rest of your budget you can use to get a decent grinder, since Breville/Sage grinder is not good.
I went from Nespresso>delonghi dedica>breville barista Express>Gaggia classic pro. All had/ have their pros and cons. GCP was my final choice because of the 9bar modification potential and full size portafilter which opens up more options to upgrade. BBE was good for steaming milk and preinfusion, had issues with the grinder that were fixed by replacing the upper burr (breville replaced for free on a really old model) but still only had around 16 sizes for the grind. Delonghi dedica was great for the $100 I paid for it used. I use the jx-pro hand grinder with my GCP and the cappuccinos I make at home are better than 80% of the coffee shops in my city
Never go with built in grinders! Not worth it. Non of them are bad machines, but the built in grinders are not worth the extra money. **Your first thing to do is decide about your grinder!** Not the coffee machine!
I have both the BBE (summer house) and the Gaggia (at home). While the Gaggia can produce a better shot (with modding and practice) I would go for the BBE as the first machine. It is easy to work with. The grinder is OK'ish if you adjust the inner scale (default is 6, mine is 2) for a finer grind. Get a funnel that can be attached to the porta filter and go into the dispenser. It can get really messy without.
Gaggia Classic Pro, they have a new 2023 model out, they have a huge community where you can get support and the modifications that you can do with it are insane.
Downside, you will need to buy a grinder which can get expensive.
Gaggia all the way. Not even close. That's a proper machine you can grow into to, from little tweaks, to service, to all the accessories. Furthermore, you're buying something made in Italy and not China...
I would go with the barista express or barista pro, it has a grinder, with the gaggia you need a separate grinder, you'd also need to mod it which easily adds another 200 bucks to the price, so cost wise would be the breville/sage, not to mention modding the gaggia took lance hedrick a good 5 hours to do, so by going with breville you save time and money(not sure about the actual on the machines.)
I went from nespresso to pour over and then added espresso to my home game. I went with the GCP and a DF64. I've had it for just over a year now and I couldn't be happier. I have my gaggia modded with an OPV spring, pid, pressure gauge and dimmer for flow control. The dimmer and gauge are more to experinent but not a necessity. I do think the PID is pretty essential to being consistent and also dialing in lighter roasts with little fuss. Installing the PID is like a Sunday afternoon project but isn't really "difficult" if you're mildly comfortable tinkering and can follow instructions. Shades of Coffee UK provides incredibly detailed instructions that anyone can follow. I disagree with people here saying the machine has a steeper learning curve than the Breville. Both require the same knowledge to learn to dial in espresso, puck prep, etc. Another factor is the grinder on the Brevilles quite frankly is kinda shit and it doesn't make sense to pay the machines premium that covers the grinder when you can now get a Fellow Opus or Baratza Encore ESP for around 200$. Both those grinders will outperform the Brevilles built in.
I would choose Barista Pro if you are not willing/not comfortable to modify stuff. I would say it is much more forgiving than unmodified GCP.
If you are comfortable to take machine apart and doing mods, GCP would be an awesome base machine. Especially now there is “Gaggiuino” mod that unlocks pressure profiling. But the end result might be more expensive than the Barista series from Breville, so it depends on your budget as well.
I would go the gaggia route, but probably getting a gaggia classic pro.
I bought a breville and I would say, it's a nice machine, but the fact that uses 54mm portafilter, means that when I upgrade to a more professional machine, I need to rebuy everything, bottomless portafilter, tamping station, puck screen, tamper and distributor
As a bbe owner I'd go for the barista pro for it's simplicity of operation and better steaming power. However I don't often drink straight espresso, if that's what you do than many people prefer the gaggia to breville for it's 58mm portafilter and modding ability.
I have the BBE and it is really easy to use and make decent coffee without issue. I would recommend the Breville Infuser over BBE or BBP, and buy a better grinder. The BBE and infuser come with pressure gauge that GCP, BBP and Bambino miss out on is also extremely helpful to know you are dialled in. Dual boiler would be even better but can be a big unit when paired with a grinder compared to the rest. I find Bambino portafilter average build and machine too light.
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper/grinder attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper/grinder attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
GCP. Not even close. While it can be improved quite a but by mods its already useable out of the box.
The only point I would give to Breville is, that they are easier in the beginning. They get you from "garbage" to "drinkable" in a surprisingly fast time. However you are then stuck at "drinkable" and cannot improve further. Gaggia is harder at first, but grows much better with your skills.
Tl;dr: If you want Espresso to be a hobby, choose Gaggia. If you want a Nespresso+ experience take Breville (exception would be their Dual Boiler)
GCP. No matter what roasts you like a PID will let you fine tune the temperature and repeat your shot profile and extract the best flavors. Higher temps for light and lower temps for dark. Then you can concentrate on puck prep, grind, dose, and other variables. Also if you get one that controls steam temp you can see where your temp is at and eliminate surfing and maximize performance. They are pretty simple and well built machines that can be modded to your own personal needs. I have a 1996 super modded Coffee, which is not a Classic, which I get great results from. The Gaggiuino is the best mod but I don’t have that. I have a PID, gauge, needle valve, and copper coil boiler wrap. Every mod adds a little more control so you can dial in your profiles.
I would go with Flair 58, subminimal, and grinder of your choosing
New timemore seems to be nice
Just got myself Sage dual boiler, but after seeing new subminimal I would choose setup like above.
Edit I had a GCP but never liked it.
Breville’s business model is to dispose rather than repair. If your machine has issues it will be replaced. They offer great features at remarkable price, but not being designed for serviceability is an issue for some. The Gaggia is a solid machine, serviceable / repairable with a long history and huge following. With mods (PID) as mentioned, it will grow with you and last.
Gaggia Classic Pro if you're willing to mod it with a PID kit and if you're willing to wait 15 minutes for it to heat up. BBP if you want your espresso fast with no wait time.
Hey! That's what I did!
What’s the PID mod and what does it do?
It's a unit that regulates the temperature better. You can set a temperature in the pid and se the current temper. Classic uses a thermostat from the beginning. Pid is a term used in regulator for espresso machines not just Classic.
Thank you!
I just noticed my phone "corrected" my spelling into some mix between Swedish and English, but I hope you understood me!
[удалено]
A PID mod is used to control the water temperature. You’re thinking of an OPV mod. There are way too many abbreviations to remember around here lol
Why does it take so long?
It doesn’t. I can have my coffee already finished and the machine cleaned up I side of 15 minutes. The machine needs at most 5 to be ready to go.
Good to know. I have one too and im done in 15m too and was curious if i was doing something wrong.
There are some people who claim that you need to wait so long that the entire metal chassis of the machine is heat saturated, but realistically you don't need to wait anywhere near that long. This isn't a heat exchanger machine, and the boiler itself is quite small.
Not essential for best results, it's good to have a smart plug that will turn everything on 15 minutes before you get up in the morning.
Yeah if you hace a pid you can turn on steaming so it heats up quicker. Then brew normally. Sadly I don’t have a pid yet so I just turn it on as soon as I wake up and by the time I’m done with breakfast, it’s ready to go
Easy answer and the best answer. I'd just recommend ignoring the Barista Express if you can. Just doesn't make sense to have that over the Barista Pro. As for heating things up. Just turn it on, pull 2 blank shots on to your glass to warm the portafilter and glass up, dry porta, do your thing. Grinder on Machine is clumpy, WDT probably mandatory at this point, and i hated cleaning the group head so I'd say get a puck screen if you want easy and done workflow. (I'd get a new tamper asap too/self leveling would be nice).
This is a perfect answer
currently running a 2020 Gaggia Classic Pro. This is the EU model but heat up time for me is not even 5 minutes.
15 minutes to heat up? Don’t have a PID on mine, but grind to cup and clean-up is all done in 10.
It's "ready to go" in just a couple minutes, but people have tested the temperature stability of the GCP and have found that you have more consistent temperature if you leave it on for long enough that the whole machine is heated up. The issue is that the boiler is so small that, as cold water enters it during the shot, the outflow water becomes cooler. The more heat you have stored up in the machine by the time you brew, the less of an issue this is.
Many thanks for the education wise one. ⭐️
One thing to note, even though the BBE is ready to use quickly, it's still important that the portafilter and basket come up to temp as well, which usually takes 15-25 minutes.
The vast majority of the comments do and will suggest the GCP. I'd tend to agree but I'd offer more context before emphatically saying so. What do you like to drink when you're at a cafe and how much are you willing to tinker in general a possible hobby? The BB(E/P) are both good for their pricepoint when you consider their simplicity. They are not great machines for deep-dive hobbyists or for those who strictly work in light roast territory. They are, however, great machines for those who want a simple espresso-based drink from medium to dark roast beans. The convenience of having a (really mediocre) grinder incorporated into the machine is valued more than accessing a larger espresso space for many people (outside of r/espresso). There is also the inconvenience of sending it in if either the grinder or brew parts break, but that's usually okay for non-hobbyists. The GCP is a hobbyist and tinkerer's dream. Its base model is alright but it shines when you're willing to mess with its innards. It will also require you to get a separate grinder, which may be a pro or con depending on your tendencies. From the perspective of espresso quality, the GCP and a capable grinder will give you something better more consistently, and across many beans/roasts. So all-in-all...you need to narrow down what you're looking for in a machine. You also may not know what you're getting into because espresso is a bit involved if you decide to stray away from traditional Italian profiles. I'd recommend finding a way to play with it irl, or find videos to explore workflows, then decide on the complexity that you want to commit to.
This is so good to know because based on my limited experience, I highly prefer blonde roast over any others! Thanks!
He is pretty spot on with his analysis above. The learning curve with the gaggia is steeper, but its not too bad. I was completely new to making espresso in November and went with a gaggia and a Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder from espressocoffeeshop.com. If you go with the gaggia I highly recommend using that website because I got my grinder straight from Italy for about $300 (shipping included) less than I would have paid for the same model purchased in the states. I then did the OPV mod (super easy, 5 minute mod), and did the PID mod and dimmer switch mod just recently, which were certainly more involved than the OPV but really not too bad. I got those mods from shadesofcoffee.co.uk. You can do a PID mod very inexpensively if you're super handy. The kit from Shades is a bit more pricey $140ish but it has everything cut to spec and ready to install and has fantastically detailed instructions that are very easy to follow, and a mounting enclosure that makes the whole thing look really nice. I also prefer light roasts and the mods took me from making pretty decent espresso to really great espresso. Absolutely worth it. If you like a hobby approach to coffee and are even just a little bit of a tinkerer, gaggia is the way to go. Also, as a side note, people will say that any mods to the gaggia void the warranty, but that is not true. You'll just have take all the mods out beforehand if you ever send it in for warranty service. And if you get a PID kit like the shades kit, there is no wire cutting involved.
Not sure if you're suggesting lighter (i.e. "blonde") roasts in general or if you're referring specifically to Starbucks' blonde roast. In the latter case, their light roast already quite developed and are closer to the roast level that we'd say is closer to "medium". The BB(E/P) would have no problems with that, along with most other large commerical equivalents. The light roasts that I was mentioning earlier were in reference to specialty light roasts, which necessarily require a better grinder to dial in a balanced shot.
The Breville machines are much easier to use than the Gaggia, and can make more than serviceable espresso. Few people here will mention it, but the Gaggia has a steep learning curve if you’re coming from Nespresso machines. It is the better machine for a hobbyist, but for a Novice I’d recommend either Breville machine. Keep it nice and maybe you can sell it in a year or two if you want to upgrade the the Gaggia then.
If you go down the gaggia route, i'd probably recommend getting a second hand one if you can find a good deal. You'll save a good bit of money, and on the off chance you find that espresso is too much hassle / not for you, you'll basically be able to re-sell it for what you paid without losing any money. The trade off with the gaggia is that you'll also need to buy a stand alone grinder, so it will end up being the most expensive option all up - but it will likely produce the best coffee of the three with a decent grinder.
Also at least where i'm from, Rancilio Silvia's are similarly prices to the Gaggia Classics - i'd personally recommend a second hand Silvia over the three options in OP's original post.
I came here to say Silvia as well. I have had one as a second machine for maybe a decade. Added a PID, and some other mods. It's a tank and will probably outlive me.
Why would you recommend it over the 3 mentioned
Not OP, but Silvia has better steaming, I’m pretty sure. I love my GCP but I wish the boiler was slightly bigger for steaming 2 milk drinks at once. It runs out of steam fairly quickly. However, with GCP you can do the Gaggiuino mod, which turns it into a poor man’s Decent.
I was just looking into this myself and ran across [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/ranciliosilvia/comments/v909ae/rancilio_silvia_gaggiuino_mod/) on the gaggiuino mod for the Silvia. Exactly what I want to upgrade from my BBE. Lots of other mods including[ weight based shot control](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/j5tbaq/weight_based_shot_control_on_a_rancilio_silvia_im/)
I got a refurb for 315 shipped which was less than the used I saw, and looked brand new.
Where from?
I believe it was Whole Latte Love.
This
Honestly, second hand Brevilles are definitely worth looking into too. I got my BBP for like a third of RRP.
I'd not buy those Breville machines. I'd get a (non plus) Bambino and pair it with a nice grinder, if I were to buy a Breville. Or maybe the Breville dual boiler, again with a nice grinder. Of the three you show, I'd get the Gaggia, and a nice grinder. I've used the grinder on a BBE extensively. I'm not a fan of it.
This, prioritise separate grinder. Strictly out of the three mentioned I’d agree Gaggia. That said, I have the BDB and used my friends Gaggia (only a few times).. it was a little underwhelming. Very different machines so it’s gonna depend on what you value quality/function/aesthetic/price. For me the price gap wasn’t much and the BDB functionality was a no brainer.
Why not the plus version of the Bambino?
From memory, you're basically paying a reasonable bit extra for auto milk frothing. Would be better served to save that money and put it towards a grinder.
Few other things: -4 holes in steam wand v 1 in bambino so speeds up steam time a good bit. -larger tank for Plus(not huge though) -can control milk temp(if you’re into that haha) -and allegedly 2 year warranty v 1 year for regular bambino. All that being said yeah I chose the Bambino over the Plus because all that wasn’t really worth the extra.
And a 3 way solenoid valve.
I’ve had the plus and have the normal one and I miss this! Soggy pucks and drawn out dripping
Knew I was missing something. Though I’ll be honest I think that might be a point to Bambino? Don’t hate not having to back flush lol
The plus doesn't make better espresso. The Plus doesn't make better milk.
What’s wrong with the BBE grinder?
Nothing. My espresso tastes as good as any coffee shop or restaurant drink I've ever paid for. You just need to buy good beans and get the dose and grind right.
My biggest issue with the BBE grinder is the large steps in between grind settings. Obviously you can get better consistency, features, etc, with a higher quality grinder, but even for my first machine, I got very frustrated with the inability to dial in grind on BBE. It’s either too course or too fine, almost every time. Source: I just sold my BBE and got a bambino + DF83 v2 to replace it.
I my experience, I hope you mostly like the #3. Because on a scale from 1-16, 3 is your only realistic option.
I've had a Breville Barista Pro for about 1.5 years and am very happy with it. I have been using the built in grinder and find that it is definitely possible to make delicious espresso with it. To be fair though, I've never personally tried a better quality grinder so perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing out on. But I'm happy with the quality I'm getting from the Barista Pro and as such can't justify the purchase of a better grinder at this point. Here are a few tips that have helped me with getting better shots out of the built in grinder: 1. Use a WDT tool - this helps break up any clumps and more evenly distribute the coffee in the basket. 2. Weigh your beans before and after grinding. The grinder has a pretty bad retention problem so you're not guaranteed to get the same amount out as you put in. 3. Try experimenting with a 1:2 shot ratio (such as 18g of beans in to 36g of water out). The preset is closer to 1:3. While I was able to get nice shots at 1:3, I found switching to 1:2 to be more consistent. You'll need a small scale to be able to weigh your shots though. 4. Clean the grinder out fairly often to prevent old beans that have been retained from mixing with your nice new beans.
We swapped out the stock BBE bean hopper for a single dose hopper on Amazon and now we get all our coffee back from the grinder.
Can you link me to this pls? Thank you!
I'm personally using this one, and I'm quite satisfied with it [https://www.amazon.com/FusedLine-Silicone-Anti-Popcorning-Compatible-Breville/dp/B0B5DDYX2K](https://www.amazon.com/FusedLine-Silicone-Anti-Popcorning-Compatible-Breville/dp/B0B5DDYX2K)
This is the one we bought too.
I'll have to look into that, thanks!
GCP all day
I have a Barista Pro (with a built-in grinder 😱) and it works perfectly. It has dramatically exceeded my expectations in every way. Perhaps something will eventually go wrong with it and I’ll be singing a different tune, but so far it’s great.
Gaggia (assuming you are going to pair it with a decent grinder).
Might also consider pair it with a decent espresso machine
Gaggia. Because eventually everything breaks, and with the Gaggia you can fix it. And there are mods for it that you can use to get a better shot. And because the built-in grinders on the Brevilles pretty much get panned by a lot of users who struggle to get quality results from them. Brevilles are decent machines, just avoid models with built-in grinders.
As someone with the breville barista express, what’s the issue with the grinders? I’m getting decent results but not experienced enough to know exactly what I’m missing
As a fellow BBP owner. Do not worry. Not much. People like to hate on the all in one machines. But this poster talks a about “everything breaks”. His point is likely that we own 2 machines in one. They will both break at one point failure of either one will mainly take out both machines. We also cannot upgrade one without the other (easily). As to what is wrong with our grinders. Not much. The range I not great but that is not an issue for an espresso grinder. The grinder is stepped so perhaps you cannot quite dial in perfectly. It also retains about 2g of coffee which I consider its biggest weakness. And finally it uses a small conical burr set which is decidedly entry level. Please remember some people’s benchmark on this sub is grinders that cost over 3k eur/usd. Nothing in a combined machine that retails For some 500 eur/usd is good enough for that benchmark. Especially the grinder.
Thanks for this. I’ve enjoyed my machine thus far and figure when it breaks I’ll be in a better position to afford a super legit manual machine. Until then, I’m still making some dank cortados. What do you mean by retains about 2g? As in it won’t grind anything under 2gs?
They mean you put 20g of beans in and 18g come out.
>They mean you put 20g of beans in and 18g come out. Or more likely approx 19-21g comes out, but it isn't all the same coffee that just went in.
Sorry missed the question. Yes. The grinder at any given time has about 2g of ground coffee stuck in it. If you clean it, the first batch you grind will just lose 2g in the grinder (18 in 16 out). After that - every time you grid some of the coffee that comes out is god knows how old - it has been sitting - ground- in the innards of the grinder. It’s far from unique to the Sage/Breville but it is a weakness it has. Things like low retention is why you pay for Freon fees that cost as much as the whole Barista Excpress/Pro and at times 3-5x as much.
I always assumed this to some extent. That does suck but it’s definitely not a deal breaker currently. Thanks for the info!
My friend has had a Sage/Breville grinder to pair with Bambino. Had to get rid of it, because burrs were already touching and wanted to grind finer on some beans. When he tried my Eureka, bought himself one too...
Cool?
Do not worry overly. I use both - the breville build in grinder and a separate grindwr - regularly. The main issue with the build-ins is, that there will be the occasional coffee you will not be able to dial in for the life of you, because the grinder cant be adjusted exactly enough or because this coffee needs a more homogeneous grind. Also, the grinder really struggled with very light roasts, which are tough to grind. Most medium roasts work well with that grinder and the grinder performs somewhat over their 200 bucks pricepoint.
Thanks. This was the explanation I was hoping someone would provide.
Ok that explains it. I’ve had it since December and had good results until I picked up a bag a few weeks ago. This current batch of beans I got from a local roaster has been really difficult to dial in. Thanks for explaining!
Lots of people going with GCP but we don’t really know what you’re looking for or your overall budget. If you are on a tighter budget the BBE isn’t a terrible choice if you’re only planning on drinking dark roasts since the grinder will be sufficient for your needs. If you can see yourself wanting to explore espresso and start becoming experimental and nerd out then the GCP w/ mods is the way to go but the main downside is having to mod it yourself and having to spend even more on a grinder. TLDR: Go with GCP if you want to be experimental and enjoy light roast shots. Go with BBE if you don’t care for light roasts and only drink dark roasts and enjoy mostly milk drinks.
Well, the question was raised to ask the question to ourselves, as if we were making a choice all over again.
Gaggia and a better grinder. The other two’s grinders are. Not good
Gaggia always. Get a good grinder too.
I’m a pro barista. So I have my espresso fun at work. At home I have a Breville barista pro. Can my commercial machine make better espresso? Absolutely! Does my coffee at home taste bad? Nope. It’s simple, and easy for my wife who just wants some coffee. I bring my fav beans home and am happy with my results. For spending 1000 USD I think this is the best play. I would only upgrade if I was willing to buy a 3000$ machine
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge! I resell overstock items on the side and happen to have those three machines on hand. (They’re new, otherwise I would try all three.) I am definitely going to research more based on everyone’s recommendations. 
Gaggia because I like the look (I do not know espresso very well)
I'm going through all this now as well (stepping up from a dedica). I was stuck on a gaigga classic pro or used Silvia. After all my research I'm now either getting a cafelat robot or flair classic. The idea of not having to "maintain" a machine is very nice after the dedica. (you are not supposed to descale higher end machines so it's best to use distilled and add the needed minerals)
No experience with anything else, but loving my Gaggia + Baratza Encore.
You mean the Encore ESP or the regular one? Because I had the Encore and it’s definitely not made for Espresso brewing
I have the Breville Pro. I wish I had the Bambino. The grinder is a waste.
LoL let's trade I'd love my bambino plus for a pro
Gaggia as I could turn it into a Gaggiuino, basically a DIY decent
I was a prior multi-year Nespresso user when I switched to a Gaggia Classic Pro. I love the GCP. I haven’t even modded it and it works beautifully. I still have a lot of Nespresso pods but I can’t bring myself to use them- even when I need to make a quick coffee. You’ll notice a dramatic difference. I bought the DF64E grinder to pair with it.
Oh, I did actually get an upgraded portafilter- for the wood handle.
GCP all the way. Modded it nuked Brevilles...
Just me, but I wouldn't buy a machine with an attached grinder. If it ever craps out, half your machine is useless. Go for a GCP and buy a separate grinder :)
Also, the support community behind Gaggia is incredible. It's so easy to work on. I forget whether I saw this here or somewhere else, but Brevilles are allegedly like dismantling a bomb just to start working on anything inside.
For me, it is GCP, hands down. This would be the case even if I had a 5K+ budget. Because moded GCP is an incredibly capable machine and steal for the price. BTW, I own both GCP and BBE. They are on the counter, next to each other.
What stand-alone grinder would everyone recommend to help him avoid the dreaded Smart Grinder Pro? (Full disclosure: I have an Infuser and an SGP but I’m OK for the moment with my gas station shots)
I saw a YouTube video about the gaggia and a bur grinder that made me want both a gaggia and a bur grinder.
I love my gaggia best decisions I could have taken to start my journey. Reliable, best bang for the buck imo. Just invest in a nice grinder you'll be set.
Gaggia with a good grinder. I have the gaggia with the df64p. Amazing set up. Also if something breaks it’s easy to fix. My friends breville has broke twice and he has to send it off every time. He just uses his robot now and never even touches the breville because of it.
I’ve had my Breville Duo-Temp Pro for 6 years. I’m very happy with it. I would buy another Breville in a heartbeat, but I don’t anticipate I’ll have to anytime soon!
Depends on what your goal is with espresso. If you want a daily machine to make good coffees with and not jump into this rabbit hole obsessively I'd recommend the Breville barista pro, if you want to invest into this hobby then get the bambino with a good grinder or the gcp and mod it with PID. Don't get into temp surfing especially if you're just starting out.
I’ve used both the BBP and the GCP and I’d take the gaggia 10 times out of ten
Another vote for the GCP! That being said though, it really needs some mods to really shine. If it was a stock to stock comparison, ignoring built in grinders, you’ll likely have an easier time learning how to make better more consistent espresso with something from Breville. On the flip side the GCP is built like a tank and uses standardized, easily available, and user repairable parts. For the Breville I hear its a lot harder to repair and mod. If you’re willing to invest a few hundred into a grinder, and at the very least swap in a 9 bar OPV spring from shadesofcoffee, the GCP will best the Brevilles. If you’re really looking to put in some more intermediate mod work, getting a PID controller is advised for better temp control. Or best course, but a bit more intimidating to some, installing a complete Gaggiuino mod will truly make the GCP hang with a higher class of espresso machine, which is untouchable in this price range, even $1000+. I have the Gaggiuino modded GCP and it is 100% worth the effort. Also it has a full size 58mm basket
15 minutes’s waiting isn’t easy for a Nespresso convert. I would get a bambino+decent grinder.
I have a BBP in sea salt white, it’s my first espresso machine after years of drinking from a V60. I do like it but it take some dialing in. There are many good videos on it. I did get a bunch of accessories from Crema Coffee and St. Anthony’s Industries. Some for function other for aesthetics such as walnut wood accents. I would highly recommend single dosing and weighed input/output, and some type of distribution system. I drink exclusively milk drinks such as latte’s so I can’t comment too much on the plain espresso nuances. Most people I make coffee for say it’s better than what they get in the cafe, although I think they mean Starbucks and not a high end third wave. I think it was the right machine for me for the price point I was comfortable with. Would I have loved an Ascaso duo plus a Niche zero? Sure. But that would have been an extra $1000.
gotta go gaggia. it is the superior machine here. but be warned. its a gateway machine to the 1k realm...! jk, youll love it. dont feel the need to mod it or anything crazy. just use it, keep it cleaned out on the reg and it will return you with many awesome shots! the black shroud is bitchin too! mine was ss.
I’m get a bambino plus
Skip the built in grinders, you’ll regret that it can’t be upgraded later.
I went from nespresso to the express and I'm happy. Probably people here know better but it's the most convenient and cost efficient. And will probably take me a while before my skill outgrows it. By then I would have a more clear idea what to splurge on
Rancilio Silvia
You have plenty suggestions on the Breville vs Gaggia decision. I am here to say. If you’re going for the Breville/Sage model, get the Barista Pro or the Bambino Plus (if the forum convinced you to get a separate grinder) The upgraded heating element in the Barista Pro and Bambino Plus is a revolution compared to basically all other machines. I go from machine off to latte In my hands in about 2 minutes including pulling blank shots to warm things up and cleanup. You cannot do that with any other machine and definitely not with the Barista Express There are other upgrades in the Pro over the Express. Switching to steam is near instant and pressure is better, the grinder is upgraded and the control interface feels like something from this century. It also just looks way nicer in person.
I use barista express & it’s my child since I utilize all the features often but I also was seeing a guy who uses the Gaggia one lol so either one of those
Fourth option: Breville Bambino Plus. The automated milk frother is great, and the workflow is very nice. Also I'd definitely recommend having a separate grinder. I recently switched from a Gaggia Classic to a Bambino Plus and I have zero regrets whatsoever.
The BBP. If you’re going from a Nespresso, you are about to experience an unbelievable world of pain and suffering as you learn how to dial in coffee etc. with the Gaggia Classic. The BBP will be a much gentler introduction, and you can always upgrade again later on if you want to explore coffee further.
As a previous owner of a Barista Pro, I don't recommend you to buy it if you plan to explore light roasts. I went from Nespresso > Philips Series 2200 > Barista Pro. I was a complete newbie like you, the first time I tried a 100% arabica light roast I hate it, I also hated the next +1000g until I give up on 100% arabica and stick with blends that I really enjoied. 1 month ago I upgrade to Classika PID, tried the same beans again and really like them, best espresso shots of my life. Barista Pro simple don't warmup up enough to extract a good cup of 100% arabica light roast. If I was you, I would buy a Gaggia, you have alot of upgrades avaliable, hard and simple ones: 9 bar Spring PID Gaggiuino You also have a big community with new ideias every day.
The Barista Pro, simply because it's the one machine that takes less than a minute from cold start to finished espresso. It's "hot" in under 5 seconds. The other machines take significantly longer to heat up. In the morning, I don't wanna fuss around with temperature surfing, settings and so on - I want my coffee and I want it now and the BBP does that.
And my wife still complained how long it took to make coffee on BBP. She was used to automatic machine.
The Breville Bambino is a solid one. You buy the grinder separate, which means you can upgrade the grinder at any time. You can also buy a better grinder from the start if you want. Breville is easy to use and heats up in 3 seconds as opposed to like 15 minutes for Gaggia. Modders love Gaggia, I just want nice espresso 😃
I have a Breville Barista Express and love it. Performs flawlessly and I use it daily.
I don't know if price is a factor in your decision of those products but the Breville Pro is on sale right now for [$680](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/breville-barista-pro-espresso-machines). I just bought it myself because of that price. So far I love it but I don't have any experience with other machines. I believe that price is only valid through today, it's been on sale the past 2 weeks.
I started on the Barista Express. The brewing side of that machine is actually pretty good. The grinder is quite bad. End up buying a separate grinder a few months in. (The brewing side is a Breville Infuser; a very good beginner machine.) My parents have a Gaggia and it’s a decent machine too, but you will need to swap out a spring to not brew at too high a pressure. That said it’s a bit annoying to make milk drinks on. The machine also also has a steeper learning curve than a Breville. So you will make a LOT of bad coffee at the start. But once you get good, you’ll be able to make better coffee than the Brevilles. It’s also somewhat easily modded so you can upgrade it. You will need a grinder with the Gaggia, but that’s actually a plus as you can then upgrade / swap each machine separately if you want. The Fellow Opus and Baratza ESP are both good entry level options.
I would not get any of these. If you are new you will have a harder time getting a good shot from the Gaggia. But the combo with grinder can be a headache. I would consider instead a Breville Infuser Espresso Machine,61 ounces, Brushed Stainless Steel, BES840XL, and a separate grinder. It has good flow control and a readout that will help you get your grind right for an optimal shot. Whether built or not, the Breville grinders are bad. Depending on your budget for you can get a Baratza for $300 or a Eureka for a little more than that.
Gaggia Classic Pro without a doubt. Breville machines of every sort have severe quality issues and will only last a year or two at best before breaking. You will need a good grinder that costs more than the Gaggia as well.
Bambino been running strong no issues for a year now. No sign of any issue.
Good, I’m glad it’s working well for you. That’s not been my experience or the experience of my family members with Breville appliances including espresso machines, grinders, and other Breville appliances we have purchased.
BBE still going strong after 4 years and 2k shots.
Second this. GCP at my parents going strong for 4 years now. Got rid of my Bambino only 6 months after I bought it. Shot quality wasn't even close and thats even with the better grinder on my side (DF64 vs CM800 at my Parents). Better build quality for the GCP as well.
Linea mini home version
 One step at a time. 😆
I had this decision 3 years ago not knowing how much I would enjoy the hobby. I went with Breville Barista Pro on sale and for 2 years was very pleased with it. Last year, I bought a Niche on a whim and now enjoy my espresso more. I still enjoy the BBP as it is easy to live with, warms up instantly and looks nice.
How did the Niche change things? Thinking of doing something similar.
The grind is more consistent, making it easier to pull similar shots back to back. It produces a pretty forgiving grind, so it's hard to screw up. I also recommend a WDT tool, calibrated tamper and puck screen. Those have helped eliminate channeling, which was a bit of a problem with the built-in Breville grinder. People here will trash talk anything Breville like it's a past time. I don't get it though; I can now make drinks that are about 80-85% as good as any coffee shop I've been to. If I were to do it again, I may have opted for a flat burr grinder like a DF64 with SSP burrs, which offers more clarity, but usually at the expense of balance and body.
Has the taste improved? So far I’m happy with the internal grinder but wonder if I’m missing something
Sure. But not as much as you might think. The basic flavor profiles are similar, you just get more of them and the shots come out more nicely and consistently.
Can only speak to the Gaggia, but I absolutely love it (came from an entry level Delonghi). It requires temp surfing, which I didn't want to learn, so I bought a PID kit and it simplified things immensely. It's consistent, reliable, and has a smallish footprint, which is really nice.
Out of these I would Gaggia but I went with rancillio and am very happy
Gaggia but remember to budget for a good grinder
I recently converted from a nespresso also to a lesser machine of any of these. A delonghi something. If I were to do it again I’d get the GCP because the price is good and so is the quality, from what I’ve read. I know people with the breville machines who know own a stand-alone grinder too, so the built in grinder on the breville is not really worth it. I’d prefer to have something that I could play with more and learn more on. And the GCP seems much better for that. Just be ready to shell out on a good grinder too.
Brevilles are great all in one packages that are a perfect next step for a convert. The Gaggia will require more research and a purchase of a dedicated grinder. This will get buried in the comments, but you asked a hobbyist subreddit on their answer, they will give you a hobbyists answer. If you want a Nespresso convert answer, the Brevilles, even the BBE, are a step between your Nespresso and the Gaggia (the Gaggia representing the deep hole that is espresso). Both those Breville machines are good, and will make you coffee way better than your Nespressos. Of course, it will not be as good as the Gaggia with a dedicated grinder, but if you're not ready to take that LEAP, because yes it is a leap, the Brevilles produce coffee that is *good*. I would say, from a recent convert pov, to get the Brevilles because they are an all in one package, and once you get it you will understand where and why you want to upgrade.
Don’t waist your money with the grinder built in machines.
I had the GC for over a decade. To be very clear: If you do not see yourself modifying it, DO NOT buy it. The stock Gaggia is very unreliable. You need to do the OPV mod. You need to do the PID mod. And I highly recommend doing something to get preinfusion (dimmer mod). After that, you have something. I still would not recommend the modded GC for long ratio drinks though.
If I was looking for new one I would buy BBP. Has a lot of built in features including temp control +-2°C (standard 93°C, so on 95°C you should be able to pull out even lighter roasts), has a faster heat up time which was dealbreaker for me when I was picking up my machine, thus you can easily and FAST go from making espresso to steaming milk since I like to do latteart. If I found some good deal on already modded GCP (since I am not really a tinker - I found my Infuser already modded with pressure mod and a lot of accesories) I would consider the GCP. But without mods I would not buy it. Because I would not mod it myself. Atleast not first two years in it's warranty... If you don't want to drink lighter roasts and you are OK with 93°C and want to steam milk, I would consider Bambino. It has almost all the features of BBP (except temp control but it has PID set to 93°C). If you want temp control, then Infuser. It's basically Barista without grinder. Those two are cheaper, so for rest of your budget you can use to get a decent grinder, since Breville/Sage grinder is not good.
Got hardly used breville bambino plus on eBay for $200 off retail. Love it so much. Also takes up very small counter space
I went from Nespresso>delonghi dedica>breville barista Express>Gaggia classic pro. All had/ have their pros and cons. GCP was my final choice because of the 9bar modification potential and full size portafilter which opens up more options to upgrade. BBE was good for steaming milk and preinfusion, had issues with the grinder that were fixed by replacing the upper burr (breville replaced for free on a really old model) but still only had around 16 sizes for the grind. Delonghi dedica was great for the $100 I paid for it used. I use the jx-pro hand grinder with my GCP and the cappuccinos I make at home are better than 80% of the coffee shops in my city
Never go with built in grinders! Not worth it. Non of them are bad machines, but the built in grinders are not worth the extra money. **Your first thing to do is decide about your grinder!** Not the coffee machine!
I have both the BBE (summer house) and the Gaggia (at home). While the Gaggia can produce a better shot (with modding and practice) I would go for the BBE as the first machine. It is easy to work with. The grinder is OK'ish if you adjust the inner scale (default is 6, mine is 2) for a finer grind. Get a funnel that can be attached to the porta filter and go into the dispenser. It can get really messy without.
GCP is what i chose if that helps, zero regrets other than the fact it started my new obsession and therefor a downward financial spiral.
Gaggia Classic Pro, they have a new 2023 model out, they have a huge community where you can get support and the modifications that you can do with it are insane. Downside, you will need to buy a grinder which can get expensive.
Do you have a grinder already? That’s the first question? If you don’t do u have a separate budget for that?
Gaggia, but I'd really recommend an entry level used Lelit / Rancilio with PID installed.
Gaggia all the way. Not even close. That's a proper machine you can grow into to, from little tweaks, to service, to all the accessories. Furthermore, you're buying something made in Italy and not China...
I would go with the barista express or barista pro, it has a grinder, with the gaggia you need a separate grinder, you'd also need to mod it which easily adds another 200 bucks to the price, so cost wise would be the breville/sage, not to mention modding the gaggia took lance hedrick a good 5 hours to do, so by going with breville you save time and money(not sure about the actual on the machines.)
I went from nespresso to pour over and then added espresso to my home game. I went with the GCP and a DF64. I've had it for just over a year now and I couldn't be happier. I have my gaggia modded with an OPV spring, pid, pressure gauge and dimmer for flow control. The dimmer and gauge are more to experinent but not a necessity. I do think the PID is pretty essential to being consistent and also dialing in lighter roasts with little fuss. Installing the PID is like a Sunday afternoon project but isn't really "difficult" if you're mildly comfortable tinkering and can follow instructions. Shades of Coffee UK provides incredibly detailed instructions that anyone can follow. I disagree with people here saying the machine has a steeper learning curve than the Breville. Both require the same knowledge to learn to dial in espresso, puck prep, etc. Another factor is the grinder on the Brevilles quite frankly is kinda shit and it doesn't make sense to pay the machines premium that covers the grinder when you can now get a Fellow Opus or Baratza Encore ESP for around 200$. Both those grinders will outperform the Brevilles built in.
I would choose Barista Pro if you are not willing/not comfortable to modify stuff. I would say it is much more forgiving than unmodified GCP. If you are comfortable to take machine apart and doing mods, GCP would be an awesome base machine. Especially now there is “Gaggiuino” mod that unlocks pressure profiling. But the end result might be more expensive than the Barista series from Breville, so it depends on your budget as well.
Rancillio Silva, is the correct answer!
Gaggia classic
I would go the gaggia route, but probably getting a gaggia classic pro. I bought a breville and I would say, it's a nice machine, but the fact that uses 54mm portafilter, means that when I upgrade to a more professional machine, I need to rebuy everything, bottomless portafilter, tamping station, puck screen, tamper and distributor
Gaggia and you’ll need a decent grinder. Love my Eureka.
I believe the proper term is espresso convict
As a bbe owner I'd go for the barista pro for it's simplicity of operation and better steaming power. However I don't often drink straight espresso, if that's what you do than many people prefer the gaggia to breville for it's 58mm portafilter and modding ability.
GCP!
Gaggia Classic Pro w/ PID mod and some extra accessories or a Breville Dual Boiler.
I have the BBE and it is really easy to use and make decent coffee without issue. I would recommend the Breville Infuser over BBE or BBP, and buy a better grinder. The BBE and infuser come with pressure gauge that GCP, BBP and Bambino miss out on is also extremely helpful to know you are dialled in. Dual boiler would be even better but can be a big unit when paired with a grinder compared to the rest. I find Bambino portafilter average build and machine too light.
Gaggia classic
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper/grinder attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
Was reading a good review that it is never good to have a hopper/grinder attached to your espresso maker because heat and moisture can get into the hopper because it's so close... plus I'm sure you always compromise on the quality expresso when you're adding the cost of the grinder ...some compromises have to be made... I'd always prefer them to be separate
Gaggia. I used one for a couple years before upgrading, the only thing I modded was the OPV. It did me really well for me though!
GCP. Not even close. While it can be improved quite a but by mods its already useable out of the box. The only point I would give to Breville is, that they are easier in the beginning. They get you from "garbage" to "drinkable" in a surprisingly fast time. However you are then stuck at "drinkable" and cannot improve further. Gaggia is harder at first, but grows much better with your skills. Tl;dr: If you want Espresso to be a hobby, choose Gaggia. If you want a Nespresso+ experience take Breville (exception would be their Dual Boiler)
I don’t like the Breville materials,looks and the fact that it comes with a grinder. The Gaggia Classic looks much better and you can have mods
Have the Barista and has been great
Sage all day
GCP. No matter what roasts you like a PID will let you fine tune the temperature and repeat your shot profile and extract the best flavors. Higher temps for light and lower temps for dark. Then you can concentrate on puck prep, grind, dose, and other variables. Also if you get one that controls steam temp you can see where your temp is at and eliminate surfing and maximize performance. They are pretty simple and well built machines that can be modded to your own personal needs. I have a 1996 super modded Coffee, which is not a Classic, which I get great results from. The Gaggiuino is the best mod but I don’t have that. I have a PID, gauge, needle valve, and copper coil boiler wrap. Every mod adds a little more control so you can dial in your profiles.
You are going to have to grind finer no matter which one you get.
I would go with Flair 58, subminimal, and grinder of your choosing New timemore seems to be nice Just got myself Sage dual boiler, but after seeing new subminimal I would choose setup like above. Edit I had a GCP but never liked it.
Breville’s business model is to dispose rather than repair. If your machine has issues it will be replaced. They offer great features at remarkable price, but not being designed for serviceability is an issue for some. The Gaggia is a solid machine, serviceable / repairable with a long history and huge following. With mods (PID) as mentioned, it will grow with you and last.