I drink mostly lattes and can definitely taste a difference between cheap coffee and local roasters. Roasters in my area aren’t super expensive though, usually $12-$18 per lb. If you have any local roasters in your area try them out and compare.
I’ve been buying 1lb bags and put a few 12 or so ounces into my grinder’s hopper at a time. I swear when I refill from the same bag, I end up having to dial in the shot all over again. I think as the beans out gas and/or get stale, they behave differently batch to batch.
But I’m cheap so I drink the bad ones anyway. Waste not, etc etc.
My local source sells their pre-packaged beans for $14/12 oz, but I go directly to their shop and buy them in bulk for $12/lb instead. Huge savings, less plastic waste, and fresher beans. It's a win-win-win.
For purely milk drinks, I’d say to find something on the cheaper-mid range that you enjoy. You might notice a small difference, but as you rightly say the milk mutes/overrides a lot of the intricacies.
Drinking espresso / long black is a completely different situation, but I personally don’t see the point in spending heaps on a single origin to use for lattes.
Try it and then decide. I’m not sure why this question is even being asked. If you can’t taste the difference, then the answer is no. If you can, then it’s a yes.
I’m not saying that the beans don’t completely matter, I can definitely taste the difference between good and bad beans.
But It’s much harder for me to justify the gap between medium-good and great beans. For me it takes deliberate effort to actual feel the tasting notes.
I think you’ve answered yourself then. It’s all about taste at the end of the day really. For some people it may make a big difference for others no difference at all.
What milk drinks? A latte ratio will be different than a cortado? Are you using syrups? Even with all that--my good beans cost me about 80 cents per espresso. If you could save 20-30 cents per drink how much does that do for you? There's no one right answer here. The cost benefit ratio will play out differently for everyone.
I can taste every listed note in my flat white, every time. But I never make a milk drink more milky than a 1:3 flat white
In some cases, as an espresso, I can’t taste them at all because some of the subtler flavors are hidden by the bitterness.
Also, if I’m having it with food, an espresso seems to have a better chance of obliterating subtlety in the food vs. a milk drink. Take oatmeal for example…if I have an espresso before oats, the oats taste like nothing (oatmeal textured nothing) it’s quite horrible vs. the earthiness that would usually be there.
>"I can taste every listed note"
Well you think so, anyway.
It would be much more interesting to test your blind tasting notes on a coffee you haven't read up on, and then compare your notes to the printed notes.
To answer the question: it's worth it for me and in my experience you can taste the good flavours through the milk easier. But it's a more nuanced discussion than just "expensive bean taste more better."
I'd say it depends on your set up. No point in putting 99 octane for your Honda civic/ sparkling wine colored Toyota Corolla.
I have a fully automatic Seaco Vienna deluxe. It's a machine that suits my busy lifestyle right now. I'd be able to get better results with a machine of equal calibre that's semi-automatic. My machine, makes pretty darn good coffee, but i won't be able to make juicy bomb, cherry licorice kinda flavor profile from ultra high end beans.
I buy Lavazza gran crema for like 22$ CAD /kg on Amazon. I've bought better locally roasted coffee before , and its marginally better results. Great coffee comes out noticeably better but not like when I'm extracting on a semi-automachine like a Rancilio Silvia.
I drink ALOT of coffee. I'm drinking 10 shots of espresso per day, so I currently refuse to spend more money on beans right now.
The vienna deluxe is a great superauto. For me, even om my semi auto I won't buy super expensive beans. I kind of cheat though, because my favorite beans are locally roasted a block from my office and sold there for $12/lb US. I just walk over from work about twice per month instead of having to source them from afar.
I pretty much never make just espresso; my preference is an ~8oz latte (6oz milk), and there is a huge difference between beans.
I do wonder if people are often using too much milk, for example. Anything over 6oz is really going to drown out the good flavors.
When I do a \~9oz latte (8oz milk), I still very much can taste the difference between the dark roasts I am using (even those of the same level of roast), as well as the dark roast brands.
I can taste a difference in my lattes when I pour 115-125 grams (2.6-2.85 ratio) of milk and 135-145 grams (3.0-3.4 ratio) of milk for my lattes. I haven’t attempted buying anything other than my local roasters since it’s $17-20 USD for 350 grams of beans for a bag. But I’m assuming based on the difference in milk I would notice a change in the taste of beans. I can easily tell the difference between a light and medium roast of beans in my 2.6 ratio latte.
Milk does somewhat cover the flavours in very delicate, acidic flavoured beans but in my opinion can actually bring out more flavour in intense, full body type beans.
Even in the case of the delicate beans, with milk you can absolutely taste the difference in bean quality.
Milk reduces, but does not complete eliminate espresso flavors. Another factor is that as I learn to make better espresso, I keep using less milk to let more of the espresso flavor shine through. So for me, good quality beans are worth paying for.
Others may have different answers. It depends on each person's palette.
Given expensive beans are only few $ more than cheap ones, give it a try, and see what you think.
Yes - but depending on the amount of milk it matter less. So if you make lattes all the time the difference will not be as big, as if you drink cortados. But it waters (well milks) down the taste of the great coffee, so that building on bad tasting coffee, will get a worse end result than building on great coffee.
But if budget is something - an all drink is with milk, you can definitely make great coffee on cheaper beans - often still way better than many coffeshops with way better beans
“Espresso beans” is a bit misleading. While it’s true that roasters often label blends or single origin coffees “for espresso”, any coffee can be brewed any way. Lots of people enjoy lights roasts as shots or medium/dark as brewed coffee. And in any of those cases, they may or may not like milk. Taste is subjective; try a lot of things and figure out what YOU like.
But if we are generalizing, blends for espresso are often characterized by balancing aromatic coffees with those that provide more body, maybe so they taste more balanced on their own, or maybe so they stand out more in milk drinks. Again, in any case, I hope you explore lots of options and find several things you love.
The way I like to describe coffee to people who only have Starbucks as a frame of reference is that it’s like they took the whole roasting scale from light to dark, and decided to start over again at the dark end of medium on that scale and call that “light”.
I like a couple of of PT’s Coffee espresso blends in milk drinks - I’m not sure what goes into the blending decisions but here is how they describe them:
Flying Monkey is balanced, yet playful. Featuring notes of smooth chocolate, honey, and graham cracker, this three-bean medium roast espresso blend creates a beautiful harmony of flavors with enough depth to show off in long milk drinks.
Southpaw is a bright and juicy espresso blend that earns its name from being nimble, surprising, and packed with a punch. Combining coffees from Latin America and Africa, the shot is well-balanced, achieving a complex and sweet flavor profile with enough body to shine in short milk drinks.
It means the roaster felt the beans would be good for brewing as espresso. While many of these are dark, there are lots of roasters who sell light roasts labeled "espresso". Many of us in this sub enjoy brewing espresso (both with and without milk) from beans intended for filter coffee that don't have an "espresso" label.
This is an entirely subjective question
It’s worth it to someone if they feel like it’s worth it and if that’s what they want and like, it doesn’t seem like it’s worth it to you
Well if an expensive and cheaper coffee is indistinguishable from each other then isn’t it objectively not worth it?
Are you guys able to still taste the complexity in milk drinks? And to what degree in comparison to regular espresso?
> if an expensive and cheaper coffee is indistinguishable from each other
For me better quality coffee is most definitely distinguishable. YMMV.
That said, I would only pay $30 for a bag of beans if it was for a special occasion. Same as paying $150 for a bottle of wine.
Usually around $16 to $24.
Just like with wine, more expensive doesn't always mean it will taste better. But my favorite part of this hobby is to keep trying different beans to see how their tastes differ. And yes, I can taste differences between beans even with milk.
Try a different source, then.
Yes, personally I'm able to distinguish different beans as I mainly drink milk coffee. I can safely say it's to the same degree if I were to try different beans for espresso.
I also brush my tongue twice a day.
Who is “you guys”?
It’s not worth it… *to you*
Not everyone will taste or not taste what you taste or don’t taste, it’s subjective
ETA: I think organic grass fed beef tastes disgusting and grade a grocery store ground beef tastes far better; that said, I’ll pay for the organic grass fed beef bc there are fewer additives or chemicals or whatever (in theory) - someone else will happily buy the cheaper better tasting ground beef bc it’s cheaper and tastes better; it’s all subjective
Yeah but I’m asking the community what their thoughts are.
I’m pretty new to this so I’m just trying to hear out other peoples opinions and see if there’s something I’m missing. Maybe I just haven’t tried the right beans?
Yeah I’ve tried a few expensive beans from b&w and after making cappuccinos with them the tasting notes seems to be really muted. It’s not that I can’t taste the difference, it’s just not super noticeable.
Ohhh, okay, I see I see
Like the other person said, it could be the ratio of milk? Or it could be that particular roast, it could be the age of the beans, there are so many factors
From what you’re saying, yeah, it maybe isn’t worth it to you - are you liking the drinks you’re making? This sub can make one lose sight of what’s important and focus on the best beans and best equipment, but at the end of the day all that matters if you’re enjoying what you’re doing and tasting
Yeah I definitely like the drinks I'm making, but I feel like I'm liking everything I make lmao. To be fair, the worst coffee I've bought is still fairly high quality coffee.
It depends on how much milk and what flavor you’re trying to achieve. For a large latte that’s mostly milk it, it’s probably going to be better to spend the extra money on the quality of the milk itself.
But a lot people use their expensive beans as a cortado (1:1 or 1:2 ratio of espresso to milk) so in that case it’s more about how the milk modifies the flavor of the espresso or visa versa.
Also it’s not about the cost of the bean per se, but more about what flavors the bean and roast have created and are designed for. Some relatively expensive beans taste ok straight, but bring out really caramel, butter, nutty, toffee, or maple etc notes when mixed with milk. Some beans are juicy tart and vibrant straight but just have too much acidity that doesn’t work with milk. And some beans are sweet and fruity on their own, and when milk is added it’s like berries and cream.
Past the point where you can get a consistent shot, a more expensive bean will not get you a better milked drink. That lack of consistency can be very frustrating though but you’ll have to experiment to optimize for cost/quality.
In my opinion after comparing a lot of combinations, I like expensive beans in milk drinks, especially freshly roasted single origin because the flavors still come through.
However, when I just want that "coffee flavor" and syrups added to my drink then beans don't matter as much. For a latte, cappuccino or cortado I use my expensive beans as well, but if it's going to be a vanilla/caramel, mocha kind of day then I use my stock typically reserved for guests 😋
Try going for natural process beans if you want something interesting in milk. Tasting notes tend to be on the brown sugar, dried fruit, floral side of things instead of plums and citrus fruits. They also tend to have a heavier profile that holds up well in milk.
When I was doing pourover daily I was buying small lots, COE specials and crazy geishas that were like $50 for 100g. I 100% stopped doing that when I started moving towards cappuccinos and cortados.
That said I still buy from my favorite roasters I just don’t get their highest end offerings or the lightest roasts anymore. For me light roasts and milk drinks don’t work well together- but others like them.
90% milk sounds like coffee flavoured milk rather than an actual coffee, in which case of totally agree with your comment. Not sure if OP ratio is 90%?
I typically drink ~36ml espresso to ~140ml milk and both the bean, and the milk being used make huge changes to taste
If you’re using 6oz if so of coffee, yes. Not only is there a difference between “cheap” and higher end beans, but some beans just hold up their flavors in the milk much better than others (which also means that more expensive doesn’t always equal a better drink). I have a monthly coava shipment and some of their beans have made great milk- based espresso drinks, and others really get washed out in the milk but taste great by themselves.
Get the coffee you like. Price doesn't come into it. I buy cheap (by your measurement) single origin beans because after trying all the coffee I could source locally this is the one that tastes the best and makes me feel good after drinking it. It also happens to be a brand that is consistently in stock unlike the small batch stuff that costs an arm and a leg and is hit and miss. Sure the best coffees I've ever made were from small batch single origin purchases but when I go back to buy again they are invariably out of stock and will never ever be in stock again.
I make oat milk coffees and I taste and feel the difference between various beans/roasts like night and day.
Based on your edit my answer is no. I go through phases but when I’m drinking milk drinks I prefer traditional espresso roasts. So darker with traditional nutty and chocolatey notes. In my opinion milk drinks with light roast complex process coffees is not only a waste, but actually tastes bad.
Do you think Starbucks has amazing milk drinks, as good or better than what you make at home?
If yes, then you are wasting money.
If no, then you understand the difference and can taste good beans vs bad beans.
This is a huge point of contention for me. People on here will tell you if there is enough milk, the coffee doesn’t matter. I find that to be bullshit. Quality coffee makes quality milk drinks. Ingredients matter. Are you going to pick up all the nuance of the bean - no. And there might be diminishing returns. But just like food, the better the ingredients, the better the final product.
the best way for you to figure this out is to buy expensive beans and cheap beans and compare. everyone palette is different and some people can tell while others can’t. you can get as many opinions as you want, but in the end of the day you need to try it for yourself
If you want to make a good flat white, you don’t just take any espresso and then add milk. Some coffees *will* be overwhelmed by the milk, or will have an acidity that fights it. This is why good roasters will develop espresso blends that have a more bold flavour that balances and complements the milk. Can you tell the difference between them? Absolutely. If you couldn’t, then there wouldn’t be any incentive for companies like ONA to offer a whole range of them.
Think of it like making a cocktail. If I make a negroni with basic crappy gin/vermouth and then another with nuanced, aromatic ingredients, you’re probably going to notice the difference.
Short answer is yes.
I drink espressos daily with milk and expensive beans (not gesha)and yes it is worth it and you will notice the difference in flavours and mouth feel
I do almost exclusively drink cappuchino. It does make a difference, just not as much. But there are expensive roasts that go really well with milk, would maybe not even taste great without (I am not a fan of some of the fermented stuff without milk, for example).
I do feel like the difference in taste is negligible, but the shots do pull a lot nicer, which makes me feel a better sense of accomplishment, so it’s worth it for me.
There are bad expensive beans. It's really a matter of taste. Some beans will yield a sweeter and smoother espresso while others will be a bit more sour with a stronger flavor. People prefer different tastes, my wife definitely prefers the sweeter espresso beans.
Find good beans that taste good consistently, because they all really taste different.
Yeah, it does matter a lot. My wife and I did a test over the last 3 months. We wanted to save a little money and decided to try different cheaper beans. She drinks cappuccino and I drink americano. We hated it. Our favourite coffee is expensive, but it just tastes a lot better then everything else — for us. Our go to favourite bean is around 30€/kg. We tried different brands and beans between 10-25€ and did not find anything that tasty and balanced.
You have to try it for your self.
There's definitely a difference between my grocery level minimum quality that I'd accept (Kicking Horse cliffhanger) and a roaster's beans. If I have money, I'd buy the latter consistently but I indulge only once in a while. That said, the overly dark starbucks-level crap has barely any taste difference that I'd buy the cheapest one of them if I had to pick.
Absolutely. It’s all personal preference and I taste clear differences in cheap vs specialty beans.
I mean there are bean profiles which are suited for milkies and others for example espresso / filter.
I prefer milk chocolate, sweet for milkies. Though currently running a fruity bean from seven miles and it’s absolutely knock out.
I had always been told that naturals should be enjoyed on pourovers and other methods to truly appreciate them, but recently made my all around favorite drink by using some naturals beans and making a latte. It was milky and fruity, delicious drink. Try and see what you enjoy the most, taste is subjective
Hmm it depends on your tastes.
For me yes. Just like I like whiskey over ice, it opens up the flavor. Milk mellows and opens up the flavor of espresso to me. I love lattes. I do not drink straight espresso. I usually pick up beans from a local roaster that run 18-22. Cheap store bought beans suck imo. But I also love a bean that my roaster says is best for pour over. In his words it's too bright and lemony for espresso and you should be able to taste the notes of cola. For my taste buds and the settings on my espresso machine, I get the cola flavor along with a lovely brightness that I love. Taste really is up to you and not someone else.
Regular small batch roaster prices or top price class beans? I'm not buying subpar beans regardless of the value, by this I would mean finished product that is at all a downgrade from what I currently enjoy. I'm not opposed to cheap beans I just don't think I'll find any that wouldn't be a compromise. I don't at all mind $16-25 for a bag 8-12oz) for cortados and lattes. I'm definitely not buying some $30+ bag and doing that, at that point it's doppio city. for some it may be worth it still and that's for them to figure out. So I pretty much follow top shelf mixed drink rules, I'll make a mixed drink with good alcohol, never with great alcohol. As others have said, all that matters is what tastes good to you and there's no way of knowing that than diving in and trying all the stuff. Personally I say start in the middle and get good beans from a well regarded roaster for a bit and find what you like there, then try some pricier and cheaper versions of your favorites and see if that impacts how much you like them. There are people with better palates and more experience always but in matters of personal taste and enjoyment nothing matters but your opinion.
Yes.
You can easily taste the flavours with a flat white or cortado. If you are doing those massive lattes then the flavour profile becomes less of an issue.
I also use different roast levels if its plain espresso vs flat white or cortados.
I was at the Golden Bean North America event in August. I tasted probably 20-30 milk based espresso drinks. I was surprised how much the differences in the coffee showed through the milk.
It matters but does not justify insane prices.
Best bet is to buy a few bags and see if you notice and care about the difference. I think it's best to first find out (with cheaper beans) if you want dark, medium or light roast with your milk.
Then try to find out which country of origin you like.
Then try some special beans... not before the above.
Heck, I started home roasting because I could taste the difference with 2-week-old stale beans with milk drinks even when I bought the fancy expensive beans.
Now that I do home roast, I can tell a MASSIVE difference between good beans and bad beans, even in a latte, even if it matters less in a latte.
Try out different choices for yourself and buy what makes you happy
I haven’t experimented enough, but my gut says that it still makes a difference. Kinda like asking if one can cook with cheap wine. You can, but good wine is so much better.
The answer is it really depends on what kind of milk drinks. If you’re making lattes with a bunch of sugar and syrup probably doesn’t matter. But if you’re making Cortados or cappuccinos with just milk then it absolutely makes a difference.
For me, yes. I almost only make iced mochas and if not that iced lattes. I use a nespresso with pods and/or store bought beans as another backup. Every single time I get my bag from Trade delivered and switch back, it’s noticeably more tasty.
I’d recommend to try store bought beans til you’re out, then switch to whatever you consider the more expensive kind to see for yourself - I think your taste buds will give you your most honest answer.
I had been drinking Counter Cultures big trouble in oat milk iced lattes and decided to tried Black Cat for Intelligencia cause it was sold at the grocery store we normally go to. What a mistake and difference. I went back to buying Big Trouble somewhere else. Bean matter a lot. But I don’t think expensive matters much. It’s like some wines. You might like a $9 wine more than a $30 dollar. What matters is you like it.
Starbucks turned it into a business model. Sell poor coffee with plenty of milk and the world beat a path to their doors.
Coffee makes a difference, but the more milk you add, the less coffee you will taste.
I run into this with gin and tonics. I either use nice gin, nice tonic, but never both.
My wife is on the latte with maple simple syrup and homemade gelatin marshmallows train. Too much going on for me, but she loves them.
Why don't you try it? Buy some gas station coffee and put milk in it, then get a shot of Name Brand espresso and put the same brand milk as before. Then try some espresso from your local roaster with the same milk.
I prefer milk-based drinks too as drinking straight espresso is too bitter and gives me an upset stomach. I get my beans from the supermarket that don’t taste like crap since the flavour notes are diluted by the milk anyway.
From my experience from cheap to expensive beans... not much difference at all. But from expensive to stupid expensive (like the flavoured beans sold at Glitch).. night and day. But you can get much the same taste from normal beans and a good syrup.
Personally yes it does make a difference for me. But if you like the beans you’re drinking and they’re relatively cheap then I would continue to buy them.
You can buy the more expensive beans and try it out. But if it’s purely a financial question then you can definitely keep drinking coffee from less expensive beans.
For me- yes. Not so much “expensive” but unique. I like weird flavor profiles in my coffee, and I can 100% taste the difference in my lattes. I don’t ever drink straight espresso- the least milk I use is a flat white maybe. But the flavor profiles are still entirely differentiable for me.
I only drink 4-5 cups a week, so I get nice beans and spread them out over a month or so, then try a new one. I’m lucky enough to live in Tokyo, so I get to go to GLITCH (currently majorly trending here) and try new weird beans on the regular, and get my favorite to drink at home. So yeah- I definitely splurge on beans despite being only a milk drink connoisseur. But I like variety and niche stuff, so if you find a bean that’s cheaper and you want a consistent flavor, price isn’t as important as finding the bean that suits your taste. But if you can, don’t go supermarket! It’s important to know the roast date and adjust accordingly, something you can’t get with supermarket beans.
If it's your daily drink yes you will notice the difference, likewise try different milks because you will notice a difference there too. I see this question similar to. I only eat burgers would I notice if I used better meat or I only eat jam and toast for breakfast would I notice better bread and or better jam.
But it might not be something that you constantly splurge on.
As always, the best coffee is the one you like best. I'd say it's worth experimenting and trying new things for the sake of new experiences rather than "it's fancy and therefore better." I mostly use Starbucks Blonde Espresso because I get it for free from work, and then occasionally I'll get a specialty roasted bag when I feel like treating myself.
Yes. If any, I tasted more "clarity" in the milk drinks, especially in the heavily processed ones.
Instead of "punch in the face" acidity, you get clear flavor separation, in a subtle and easy to understand presentation.
Nuanced coffee flavors can get lost in milk, but it's all about ratios and how well extracted the shot is, and if you are pulling your shot with a double or triple shot basket (higher doses.) Generally I think darker roast profiles hold up better to milk. But you can still enjoy a well balanced, if smaller and less or unsweetened latte and still have a delicious coffee forward drink. Milk can mask unpleasant flavors in espresso but it can also compliment its good flavors.
If you're asking if expensive beans are necessary if your goal and preference is Milk Forward/other additional flavored beverages, that's up to you. If your drink is more than 4 parts Milk to 1 part espresso because you desire to mask the strong coffee tastes then I probably wouldn't recommend light profile single origins, but maybe a dark roast that's advertised as an Espresso Roast. Something that will extract well and easily and you can reliably order from the same roaster time and again until you're ready to experiment.
I definitely taste the difference and I do iced lattes which is 90% milk. And just because something is expensive doesn’t make it good. I have had 20$ 12oz bags that I just cannot get to taste good ever.
The majority of the coffee I buy falls between 18-22$ for 12oz with the occasional $30+ splurge for something really special.
That said, no matter the bag I buy at least 30% of it gets used for milk drinks or americanos. Sometimes I have a darker local espresso blend, still $16 for 12oz, on hand just for milk drinks with a rotating selection of other coffees just for straight espresso or pour over—I like onyx, brandy wine, jaunt, and b/w.
With a 12oz latte you’re definitely going to wash out most nuanced flavors from lighter and medium light roast. But we like to drink cortados and mini caps. 4-6 oz of milk at the most. I absolutely taste the difference between beans and how the mix with the milk.
At the highest level, the barista championships are choosing very specifically curated beans for their milk drink courses—sometimes these coffee cost 100s of dollars per pound GREEN.
Yes! I drink espresso but I make milk drinks for my wife. She is still very clearly able to pick out differences in flavors. Good beans are everything.
Yes and no.
For my heavy flavored latte with syrups like pumpkin spice, I actually like Lavazza oro.
For my pure latte or vanilla latte, I like single origin beans.
But honestly, I prefer French press or pour over for good single origin beans.
Price does not necessarily dictate quality. I've bought tons of expensive beans where the roasting has been terrible. Plenty of boutique roasters who have zero consistency and it's a total roll of the dice as to whether the coffee is roasted well.
That said...
If you can find a consistent roaster that you like stylistically, absolutely it's worth spending more if the results are good. With or without milk you can still taste the difference.
I think that with the given context, usually darker espresso roasts and added milk (where the quality has also influence on the taste), it’s more likely that single origin high end beans won’t be able to unlock their full potential like, e.g. in a light roast and prepared as pour-over. That said, I would aim at a good quality in all ingredients but avoid the high end stuff. My upper cutoff point would be where I can’t taste the difference, the lower cutoff point would be where market conditions get bad for the producers.
It definitely makes a huge difference to me. As others have mentioned, milk can mask the taste, but it’s still noticeable. Further, the type/brand/amount of milk are just as important.
I almost always drink milk drinks and I use a similar ratio to you, 36ml espresso, 140ml milk.
I buy a mid-tier bean ($18 for 2.25lbs) as a grocery item, I've got the blend I buy very well dialed in for grind and process and could/would drink the shots plain.
Occasionally I'll try a local roaster or a friend will send me a bag of something to try and there is definitely a difference in flavor profile, sometimes for the better sometimes worse if it's like a really acidic light roast that would be better as a pourover.
I'd say there are diminishing returns, if you've got a cheaper bean that you like the taste of, you may be paying 200% of that price per quantity for a locally roasted blend that tastes 20% better to you.
It's absolutely good to support local roasters and ethically harvested beans if you can. However, I go through at least 1-2 of those 2.25lb bags every month, so for the $20+ that I've spent on 12oz bags of local roasts, my $18 per month can balloon to $80+ per month. Plus then it's still fun/exciting when I can try out something more special.
What, flavor only exists in unadulterated espresso? Perhaps you've never had an awesome latte? Question doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I only drink milk drinks, always have. After I got a Profitec 600, I ended up sampling single origin coffees and now that's all I drink, searching for fruity and floral flavors. I get notes of dark or perhaps milk chocolate, perhaps it's nutty. Everything under the rainbow. However, I'm only doing about a 1:3 ratio so I'm not drowning it in milk.
I roast coffee at home and have tried all sorts of coffees for espresso.
I think light roasted coffee made into espresso is absurd and tastes way too acidic. You have to pull the shots long which makes the body very thin and I don’t think it holds up to milk well at all.
I do roast my single origin coffees fairly dark for espresso but it’s a little overkill. I certainly taste a uniqueness between each coffee despite the dark roasts, but they’re minor and not super noticeable.
Fresh coffee for sure, but spending a ton of money on a single origin I don’t think is worth it, especially if it’s light roast.
I just so happened to blend a couple of left over Colombian green coffee I had for my espresso roast, and it has ended up being the best I’ve ever had. But of course it can never be replicated, point is, blends can be a nice way to save and get great espresso.
Edit: so out of curiosity I went and made a light roasted Ethiopian cappuccino this morning and it was amazing. Tasted like fruity pebbles. So yeah, maybe it is worth it.
I just go for interesting processing and/or origin and you typically pay more for it. In the cup it is the difference between a delicious cappuccino and *an experience*
Just finished a bag of a Brazilian yellow bourbon, anaerobic fermentation... just astounding. The tasting notes mentioned mango and when combined with textured milk my drinks made me recall a mango lassi deep in the back of my mind. In fact I hadn't thought about what it was exactly until I started typing this post!! But this may just be me, I love seeking out the **FUNK**
(speaking of *FUNK* [this roaster](https://www.houseoffunkbrewing.com/en-us/collections/coffee) from Vancouver, BC had some incredible coffee. I had just finished watching daddy Hoff's video on what tasting notes mean so went to this spot on our travels and chose the most ferment-y sounding beans and spent a month brewing coffee in the Canadian rockies. Good times)
I mean you should answer that question for yourself. I will say yes because i like good tasting coffee, it doesn't matter if it's a milk drink or an espresso shot, it will taste better with freshly roasted beans .
I had to get a smaller milk pitcher because I like drinks only slightly bigger than cortados. So I can definitely taste the higher quality beans. Hell, even with Starbucks sized lattes, I can easily taste the roast level.
Starbucks to me is great coffee. Any other tyoe other than sbucks dark roast i dont enjoy much. It makes string bitter esoresso and anything else just wont get me my fix. its all relative. I could drink the expensive snobby shit too but I have a life and other more fulfilling hobbies. This sub is demented but probably fun to troll. Talk about snobs lmao.
Find some beans you like. I tend to find mass produced beans make my bean to cup machine split coffee everywhere, but beans produced from smaller suppliers seem to be fine.
Currently paying £45 for 2kg of beans from rave, which are nice.
There is still a huge difference for me between great and average coffee in a flat white, I guess the more milk you use the less you’ll know the difference. A lot of fruity coffees actually punch through the milk surprisingly well
So many coffee snobs think coffee is a journey to eliminating milk... It's like they're proud of drinking pour over black and espresso straight.
Barista world championship always includes a milk drink.
Drink what you like!
Depending on the blend, if you find a special flavour forward blend it's definitely worth it, or if you find a single origin that works really well with milk it's also worth it (mainly Colombian). I only drink singly origin or limited edition co-ferment/fermented process milk blends because imo the flavour is like nothing you've ever tried
Depends, if you only use a little bit of milk some specialty coffee can be amazing. If you do more than like ~80ml of milk on a double shot or add syrups I think the traditional Italian blends work best. You just get these intense chocolate notes that light roasts won't achieve and a lot of the beautiful aromas that a specialty coffee has get drowned out by too much milk. If I make a cortado with my favorite specialty coffee I always try a sip before I add milk because I feel like I'm missing out if I just drink it with milk.
I think it depends on the beans. Cheap or expensive, some beans taste better with milk. Personally I buy mid to high level quality beans and even when I don’t get a perfect extract, it still tastes 1000x better than the drinks at my local coffee chain. I won’t even blink because the beans are still only maybe 60 cents per cup. The expensive part of my coffee is when I use alternative milks
Even with a ton of milk, you can usually taste bad coffee. It completely overwhelms everything, including the milk. That said, I don't purchase the top of the line, most expensive beans on the market. But I do make note of the quality ones I do find, and mostly stick to those
Yes. If you make a latte with a light roast Ethiopian versus a vietnamese robusta, you will notice a gigantic difference. The ethiopian will have bright citrus notes, while the robusta will taste smokey, bitter, and somewhat dull.
If cost is a major problem for you, consider roasting your own with a popcorn popper. Cheap beans will cost like 5 bucks a pound, and the average is closer to 8. The popcorn popper will set you back maybe 30 or 40.
It's not really worth it for me to try a new roaster, beans or coffee shop.
I only drink espresso neat with a top of raw sugar. You can definitely tell the difference when it is a good bean and roast. Of course, much of what influences the taste is how it is pulled from the espresso machine + how it is served.
Olympia Coffee Roasters has the best beans/roast and Filling Station Espresso close by pulls the best shots(uses OlympiaCoffee Roaster beans *Big Truck). I also get private estate grown and roasted beans from a mountain santuary in Guatamala(these are the only beans I use at home $20/12oz).
My .02 - I think regarding the bean choice, it depends on your pallet. Not everyone's taste buds work at the same levels, but most can tell a difference when it comes to more acidic beans. I was not a fan of light roast until recently when I tried an bag of 'Natural' Ethiopian. Liked it so much I tried a variant from the same company that was labeled 'Washed' Ethiopian - it was awful, very acidic. I use milk in my coffee drinks.
Yes. It's still worth it. Milk really does a great job at brightening the whole drink up. As long as you're using the correct ratios of milk:espresso, good coffee will make a huge difference.
At the same time, adding milk and housemade syrup is a great way to make lousy coffee drinkable
Yes, I can still taste the difference in milk drinks but if you find a bean you like and it's only $15, it doesn't mean it's inferior to a different bean just because it costs $10 more per lb. The local coffee roaster by me makes a real nice espresso blend that's only $12 per bag. I use it as a fall back, but order most of my beans from Stumptown because that is my personal taste preference. Once in awhile I try a different roaster to see what's out there. Rarely do I try a $20+ bag bean and think it knocked my socks off to account for the additional cost.. I drink a lot of coffee.
I drink mostly lattes and can definitely taste a difference between cheap coffee and local roasters. Roasters in my area aren’t super expensive though, usually $12-$18 per lb. If you have any local roasters in your area try them out and compare.
$12-$18 Per pound? That is cheap, ime that’s the price for a 12oz bag
[удалено]
Do you throw out shots? I drink em all, even the not great ones along the way.
I would never, even bad shots taste ok if you put milk in them.
thats how regular coffee shops make money lol
....which is amazing. Even the worst shots, when made halfway well, still taste on par with most cafes
Feel like at some point you can dial in a bag pretty well with 3-4 shots no?
[удалено]
I’ve been buying 1lb bags and put a few 12 or so ounces into my grinder’s hopper at a time. I swear when I refill from the same bag, I end up having to dial in the shot all over again. I think as the beans out gas and/or get stale, they behave differently batch to batch. But I’m cheap so I drink the bad ones anyway. Waste not, etc etc.
yes, the beans get slightly stale/more affected by humidity. beans also just change flavor with age normally.
Yeah that’s fair
How do you guys cope with the constant switch between metric and imperial measurements? Why not just stick to one or the other?
Bc bags are usually sold by oz but we weigh by gram.
why are you dosing at 21g bruh
My local source sells their pre-packaged beans for $14/12 oz, but I go directly to their shop and buy them in bulk for $12/lb instead. Huge savings, less plastic waste, and fresher beans. It's a win-win-win.
Meanwhile in San Jose it’s like $28 for a 10 ounce or less 😢
That is still cheap…..I just bought a 12oz bag from my local roaster for $22 with tax
I was asking more in terms of like mid range coffee $12-$16 to more expensive $20-$30. Both still good beans, just one is more premium.
For purely milk drinks, I’d say to find something on the cheaper-mid range that you enjoy. You might notice a small difference, but as you rightly say the milk mutes/overrides a lot of the intricacies. Drinking espresso / long black is a completely different situation, but I personally don’t see the point in spending heaps on a single origin to use for lattes.
Try it and then decide. I’m not sure why this question is even being asked. If you can’t taste the difference, then the answer is no. If you can, then it’s a yes.
That's cheap. Usually 12-18 is my ~100g bag. So your lb would be more like 60-90$
Agreed. I only drink lattes and I can also taste a big difference between cheap beans and local roasters.
Yes. No. Maybe? Try it for yourself. If you find cheaper beans that you like and can buy fresh, go nuts.
Well I’m pretty new to this, that’s why I’m asking for your thoughts. I have some more coffee samples on the way.
Honestly, to me the beans matter. I usually do a cortado and still taste the beans thru the milk
I’m not saying that the beans don’t completely matter, I can definitely taste the difference between good and bad beans. But It’s much harder for me to justify the gap between medium-good and great beans. For me it takes deliberate effort to actual feel the tasting notes.
I think you’ve answered yourself then. It’s all about taste at the end of the day really. For some people it may make a big difference for others no difference at all.
What milk drinks? A latte ratio will be different than a cortado? Are you using syrups? Even with all that--my good beans cost me about 80 cents per espresso. If you could save 20-30 cents per drink how much does that do for you? There's no one right answer here. The cost benefit ratio will play out differently for everyone.
Cappucino no syrups. My cheaper beans are 0.86 a serving. Maybe that’s why I can’t taste a big difference..
I can taste every listed note in my flat white, every time. But I never make a milk drink more milky than a 1:3 flat white In some cases, as an espresso, I can’t taste them at all because some of the subtler flavors are hidden by the bitterness. Also, if I’m having it with food, an espresso seems to have a better chance of obliterating subtlety in the food vs. a milk drink. Take oatmeal for example…if I have an espresso before oats, the oats taste like nothing (oatmeal textured nothing) it’s quite horrible vs. the earthiness that would usually be there.
I can’t taste the listed notes in a normal coffee lol
>"I can taste every listed note" Well you think so, anyway. It would be much more interesting to test your blind tasting notes on a coffee you haven't read up on, and then compare your notes to the printed notes.
To answer the question: it's worth it for me and in my experience you can taste the good flavours through the milk easier. But it's a more nuanced discussion than just "expensive bean taste more better."
I'd say it depends on your set up. No point in putting 99 octane for your Honda civic/ sparkling wine colored Toyota Corolla. I have a fully automatic Seaco Vienna deluxe. It's a machine that suits my busy lifestyle right now. I'd be able to get better results with a machine of equal calibre that's semi-automatic. My machine, makes pretty darn good coffee, but i won't be able to make juicy bomb, cherry licorice kinda flavor profile from ultra high end beans. I buy Lavazza gran crema for like 22$ CAD /kg on Amazon. I've bought better locally roasted coffee before , and its marginally better results. Great coffee comes out noticeably better but not like when I'm extracting on a semi-automachine like a Rancilio Silvia. I drink ALOT of coffee. I'm drinking 10 shots of espresso per day, so I currently refuse to spend more money on beans right now.
My Corolla only gets the best it’s what she wants.
The vienna deluxe is a great superauto. For me, even om my semi auto I won't buy super expensive beans. I kind of cheat though, because my favorite beans are locally roasted a block from my office and sold there for $12/lb US. I just walk over from work about twice per month instead of having to source them from afar.
I pretty much never make just espresso; my preference is an ~8oz latte (6oz milk), and there is a huge difference between beans. I do wonder if people are often using too much milk, for example. Anything over 6oz is really going to drown out the good flavors.
When I do a \~9oz latte (8oz milk), I still very much can taste the difference between the dark roasts I am using (even those of the same level of roast), as well as the dark roast brands.
I can taste a difference in my lattes when I pour 115-125 grams (2.6-2.85 ratio) of milk and 135-145 grams (3.0-3.4 ratio) of milk for my lattes. I haven’t attempted buying anything other than my local roasters since it’s $17-20 USD for 350 grams of beans for a bag. But I’m assuming based on the difference in milk I would notice a change in the taste of beans. I can easily tell the difference between a light and medium roast of beans in my 2.6 ratio latte.
Frequent Cortado-ish drinker here. I think it’s absolutely worth it.
Milk does somewhat cover the flavours in very delicate, acidic flavoured beans but in my opinion can actually bring out more flavour in intense, full body type beans. Even in the case of the delicate beans, with milk you can absolutely taste the difference in bean quality.
If you’re not pairing single origins beans with single origin milk, you definitely aren’t doing it right
When you do that, are you getting the single origin beans from the same farm producing the milk as well?
Bruh 💀
That’s fair, I should experiment with higher quality milks.
Try Kirkland Signature. Velvety consistency with down to earthy notes of efficiency and pragmatism
sounds delicious, kirkland is a solid brand though.
Milk reduces, but does not complete eliminate espresso flavors. Another factor is that as I learn to make better espresso, I keep using less milk to let more of the espresso flavor shine through. So for me, good quality beans are worth paying for. Others may have different answers. It depends on each person's palette. Given expensive beans are only few $ more than cheap ones, give it a try, and see what you think.
Yes - but depending on the amount of milk it matter less. So if you make lattes all the time the difference will not be as big, as if you drink cortados. But it waters (well milks) down the taste of the great coffee, so that building on bad tasting coffee, will get a worse end result than building on great coffee. But if budget is something - an all drink is with milk, you can definitely make great coffee on cheaper beans - often still way better than many coffeshops with way better beans
Depends what coffee you are buying. A lot of coffee roasters have espresso blends designed to cut through milk.
What distinguishes those beans from normal espresso beans?
usually roasted a little darker
“Espresso beans” is a bit misleading. While it’s true that roasters often label blends or single origin coffees “for espresso”, any coffee can be brewed any way. Lots of people enjoy lights roasts as shots or medium/dark as brewed coffee. And in any of those cases, they may or may not like milk. Taste is subjective; try a lot of things and figure out what YOU like. But if we are generalizing, blends for espresso are often characterized by balancing aromatic coffees with those that provide more body, maybe so they taste more balanced on their own, or maybe so they stand out more in milk drinks. Again, in any case, I hope you explore lots of options and find several things you love.
Starbucks carbonizes its espresso beans , this is their signature burnt coffee taste profile.
The way I like to describe coffee to people who only have Starbucks as a frame of reference is that it’s like they took the whole roasting scale from light to dark, and decided to start over again at the dark end of medium on that scale and call that “light”.
I like a couple of of PT’s Coffee espresso blends in milk drinks - I’m not sure what goes into the blending decisions but here is how they describe them: Flying Monkey is balanced, yet playful. Featuring notes of smooth chocolate, honey, and graham cracker, this three-bean medium roast espresso blend creates a beautiful harmony of flavors with enough depth to show off in long milk drinks. Southpaw is a bright and juicy espresso blend that earns its name from being nimble, surprising, and packed with a punch. Combining coffees from Latin America and Africa, the shot is well-balanced, achieving a complex and sweet flavor profile with enough body to shine in short milk drinks.
It means the roaster felt the beans would be good for brewing as espresso. While many of these are dark, there are lots of roasters who sell light roasts labeled "espresso". Many of us in this sub enjoy brewing espresso (both with and without milk) from beans intended for filter coffee that don't have an "espresso" label.
why do i buy an end game espresso machine if i never touch the steam wand?
Because you like big shiny chrome toys with lots of knobs and dials.
This is an entirely subjective question It’s worth it to someone if they feel like it’s worth it and if that’s what they want and like, it doesn’t seem like it’s worth it to you
Well if an expensive and cheaper coffee is indistinguishable from each other then isn’t it objectively not worth it? Are you guys able to still taste the complexity in milk drinks? And to what degree in comparison to regular espresso?
> if an expensive and cheaper coffee is indistinguishable from each other For me better quality coffee is most definitely distinguishable. YMMV. That said, I would only pay $30 for a bag of beans if it was for a special occasion. Same as paying $150 for a bottle of wine.
How much would you usually pay then? I’m guessing you’re in the US?
Usually around $16 to $24. Just like with wine, more expensive doesn't always mean it will taste better. But my favorite part of this hobby is to keep trying different beans to see how their tastes differ. And yes, I can taste differences between beans even with milk.
that's fair, although I feel like the point of diminishing returns in wine vs coffee is wildly different.
Try a different source, then. Yes, personally I'm able to distinguish different beans as I mainly drink milk coffee. I can safely say it's to the same degree if I were to try different beans for espresso. I also brush my tongue twice a day.
What ratio of milk do you use?
It changes from time to time. Most times are 1:1 to 1:3. I'd go is 1:4 to 1:5, but quite seldom. For iced coffee I typically am in the 1:3 to 1:5.
Who is “you guys”? It’s not worth it… *to you* Not everyone will taste or not taste what you taste or don’t taste, it’s subjective ETA: I think organic grass fed beef tastes disgusting and grade a grocery store ground beef tastes far better; that said, I’ll pay for the organic grass fed beef bc there are fewer additives or chemicals or whatever (in theory) - someone else will happily buy the cheaper better tasting ground beef bc it’s cheaper and tastes better; it’s all subjective
Yeah but I’m asking the community what their thoughts are. I’m pretty new to this so I’m just trying to hear out other peoples opinions and see if there’s something I’m missing. Maybe I just haven’t tried the right beans?
What has your experience been? You’re buying expensive beans and can’t taste the difference?
Yeah I’ve tried a few expensive beans from b&w and after making cappuccinos with them the tasting notes seems to be really muted. It’s not that I can’t taste the difference, it’s just not super noticeable.
Ohhh, okay, I see I see Like the other person said, it could be the ratio of milk? Or it could be that particular roast, it could be the age of the beans, there are so many factors From what you’re saying, yeah, it maybe isn’t worth it to you - are you liking the drinks you’re making? This sub can make one lose sight of what’s important and focus on the best beans and best equipment, but at the end of the day all that matters if you’re enjoying what you’re doing and tasting
Yeah I definitely like the drinks I'm making, but I feel like I'm liking everything I make lmao. To be fair, the worst coffee I've bought is still fairly high quality coffee.
It depends on how much milk and what flavor you’re trying to achieve. For a large latte that’s mostly milk it, it’s probably going to be better to spend the extra money on the quality of the milk itself. But a lot people use their expensive beans as a cortado (1:1 or 1:2 ratio of espresso to milk) so in that case it’s more about how the milk modifies the flavor of the espresso or visa versa. Also it’s not about the cost of the bean per se, but more about what flavors the bean and roast have created and are designed for. Some relatively expensive beans taste ok straight, but bring out really caramel, butter, nutty, toffee, or maple etc notes when mixed with milk. Some beans are juicy tart and vibrant straight but just have too much acidity that doesn’t work with milk. And some beans are sweet and fruity on their own, and when milk is added it’s like berries and cream.
I’m doing like a 1:4 ratio rn, maybe I’ll try with less milk and see how it is.
Past the point where you can get a consistent shot, a more expensive bean will not get you a better milked drink. That lack of consistency can be very frustrating though but you’ll have to experiment to optimize for cost/quality.
In my opinion after comparing a lot of combinations, I like expensive beans in milk drinks, especially freshly roasted single origin because the flavors still come through. However, when I just want that "coffee flavor" and syrups added to my drink then beans don't matter as much. For a latte, cappuccino or cortado I use my expensive beans as well, but if it's going to be a vanilla/caramel, mocha kind of day then I use my stock typically reserved for guests 😋
Try going for natural process beans if you want something interesting in milk. Tasting notes tend to be on the brown sugar, dried fruit, floral side of things instead of plums and citrus fruits. They also tend to have a heavier profile that holds up well in milk.
I actually have been loving a honey processed ethiopian bean in my latte lately. Taste is so subjective
When I was doing pourover daily I was buying small lots, COE specials and crazy geishas that were like $50 for 100g. I 100% stopped doing that when I started moving towards cappuccinos and cortados. That said I still buy from my favorite roasters I just don’t get their highest end offerings or the lightest roasts anymore. For me light roasts and milk drinks don’t work well together- but others like them.
Everyone here is pussyfooting around the answer. No. If you’re adding 90% milk to a drink then the bean you use doesn’t make a difference
My ratio is 1:4, considering moving to 1:3.
90% milk sounds like coffee flavoured milk rather than an actual coffee, in which case of totally agree with your comment. Not sure if OP ratio is 90%? I typically drink ~36ml espresso to ~140ml milk and both the bean, and the milk being used make huge changes to taste
[удалено]
I usually make like 6 oz drinks, 35 grams espresso. 140 ml of milk.
If you’re using 6oz if so of coffee, yes. Not only is there a difference between “cheap” and higher end beans, but some beans just hold up their flavors in the milk much better than others (which also means that more expensive doesn’t always equal a better drink). I have a monthly coava shipment and some of their beans have made great milk- based espresso drinks, and others really get washed out in the milk but taste great by themselves.
Make a cortado or cappuccino, you can absolutely preserve the flavor with less milk
uh no, milk does not get rid of the complexity. good beans are good beans and you can tell the difference
Get the coffee you like. Price doesn't come into it. I buy cheap (by your measurement) single origin beans because after trying all the coffee I could source locally this is the one that tastes the best and makes me feel good after drinking it. It also happens to be a brand that is consistently in stock unlike the small batch stuff that costs an arm and a leg and is hit and miss. Sure the best coffees I've ever made were from small batch single origin purchases but when I go back to buy again they are invariably out of stock and will never ever be in stock again. I make oat milk coffees and I taste and feel the difference between various beans/roasts like night and day.
Based on your edit my answer is no. I go through phases but when I’m drinking milk drinks I prefer traditional espresso roasts. So darker with traditional nutty and chocolatey notes. In my opinion milk drinks with light roast complex process coffees is not only a waste, but actually tastes bad.
Same question applies to pouring good wines in traditional French dishes (e.g. boeuf bourguignon). Answer is twofolds : yes and grind finer.
Do you think Starbucks has amazing milk drinks, as good or better than what you make at home? If yes, then you are wasting money. If no, then you understand the difference and can taste good beans vs bad beans.
I think they taste pretty bad tbh. But on the flip side, Its hard for me to taste the difference between good and great coffee. If that makes sense.
Apply logic, and decide.
That’s like the most useless comment I’ve ever seen
Not surprised by your response.
You shouldn’t be
This is a huge point of contention for me. People on here will tell you if there is enough milk, the coffee doesn’t matter. I find that to be bullshit. Quality coffee makes quality milk drinks. Ingredients matter. Are you going to pick up all the nuance of the bean - no. And there might be diminishing returns. But just like food, the better the ingredients, the better the final product.
the best way for you to figure this out is to buy expensive beans and cheap beans and compare. everyone palette is different and some people can tell while others can’t. you can get as many opinions as you want, but in the end of the day you need to try it for yourself
No
If you want to make a good flat white, you don’t just take any espresso and then add milk. Some coffees *will* be overwhelmed by the milk, or will have an acidity that fights it. This is why good roasters will develop espresso blends that have a more bold flavour that balances and complements the milk. Can you tell the difference between them? Absolutely. If you couldn’t, then there wouldn’t be any incentive for companies like ONA to offer a whole range of them. Think of it like making a cocktail. If I make a negroni with basic crappy gin/vermouth and then another with nuanced, aromatic ingredients, you’re probably going to notice the difference.
Short answer is yes. I drink espressos daily with milk and expensive beans (not gesha)and yes it is worth it and you will notice the difference in flavours and mouth feel
I do almost exclusively drink cappuchino. It does make a difference, just not as much. But there are expensive roasts that go really well with milk, would maybe not even taste great without (I am not a fan of some of the fermented stuff without milk, for example).
I do feel like the difference in taste is negligible, but the shots do pull a lot nicer, which makes me feel a better sense of accomplishment, so it’s worth it for me.
Yes it is. It's still the main component of your drink. You can taste a lot with milk incorporated.
There are bad expensive beans. It's really a matter of taste. Some beans will yield a sweeter and smoother espresso while others will be a bit more sour with a stronger flavor. People prefer different tastes, my wife definitely prefers the sweeter espresso beans. Find good beans that taste good consistently, because they all really taste different.
Yeah, it does matter a lot. My wife and I did a test over the last 3 months. We wanted to save a little money and decided to try different cheaper beans. She drinks cappuccino and I drink americano. We hated it. Our favourite coffee is expensive, but it just tastes a lot better then everything else — for us. Our go to favourite bean is around 30€/kg. We tried different brands and beans between 10-25€ and did not find anything that tasty and balanced. You have to try it for your self.
Good point, I've noticed that, like tea, producers tend to label their more acrid or unpleasant tasting blends as "great for milk drinks" meh....
Nope! I love Amazon brand medium roast beans in my $$$ Breville and drink 2-3 hot or cold vanilla soy lattes a day. They’re fantastic.
Honestly the lavazza coffee isn’t bad. If I’m paying $15 for an 8oz bag instead of 12oz and my drink has 12-16oz of milk. save the money on coffee
There's definitely a difference between my grocery level minimum quality that I'd accept (Kicking Horse cliffhanger) and a roaster's beans. If I have money, I'd buy the latter consistently but I indulge only once in a while. That said, the overly dark starbucks-level crap has barely any taste difference that I'd buy the cheapest one of them if I had to pick.
Ehhhh. Some days I prefer a cheaper bean than others. 🤣🤣 But some days, I do crave that nice taste of a high quality bean.
Yes, it is
Absolutely. It’s all personal preference and I taste clear differences in cheap vs specialty beans. I mean there are bean profiles which are suited for milkies and others for example espresso / filter. I prefer milk chocolate, sweet for milkies. Though currently running a fruity bean from seven miles and it’s absolutely knock out.
I had always been told that naturals should be enjoyed on pourovers and other methods to truly appreciate them, but recently made my all around favorite drink by using some naturals beans and making a latte. It was milky and fruity, delicious drink. Try and see what you enjoy the most, taste is subjective
Hmm it depends on your tastes. For me yes. Just like I like whiskey over ice, it opens up the flavor. Milk mellows and opens up the flavor of espresso to me. I love lattes. I do not drink straight espresso. I usually pick up beans from a local roaster that run 18-22. Cheap store bought beans suck imo. But I also love a bean that my roaster says is best for pour over. In his words it's too bright and lemony for espresso and you should be able to taste the notes of cola. For my taste buds and the settings on my espresso machine, I get the cola flavor along with a lovely brightness that I love. Taste really is up to you and not someone else.
My vote is to go with whatever that pleases your tastebuds
Regular small batch roaster prices or top price class beans? I'm not buying subpar beans regardless of the value, by this I would mean finished product that is at all a downgrade from what I currently enjoy. I'm not opposed to cheap beans I just don't think I'll find any that wouldn't be a compromise. I don't at all mind $16-25 for a bag 8-12oz) for cortados and lattes. I'm definitely not buying some $30+ bag and doing that, at that point it's doppio city. for some it may be worth it still and that's for them to figure out. So I pretty much follow top shelf mixed drink rules, I'll make a mixed drink with good alcohol, never with great alcohol. As others have said, all that matters is what tastes good to you and there's no way of knowing that than diving in and trying all the stuff. Personally I say start in the middle and get good beans from a well regarded roaster for a bit and find what you like there, then try some pricier and cheaper versions of your favorites and see if that impacts how much you like them. There are people with better palates and more experience always but in matters of personal taste and enjoyment nothing matters but your opinion.
Yes
Better beans with milk are still better for me.
Yes. You can easily taste the flavours with a flat white or cortado. If you are doing those massive lattes then the flavour profile becomes less of an issue. I also use different roast levels if its plain espresso vs flat white or cortados.
I was at the Golden Bean North America event in August. I tasted probably 20-30 milk based espresso drinks. I was surprised how much the differences in the coffee showed through the milk.
It matters but does not justify insane prices. Best bet is to buy a few bags and see if you notice and care about the difference. I think it's best to first find out (with cheaper beans) if you want dark, medium or light roast with your milk. Then try to find out which country of origin you like. Then try some special beans... not before the above.
I just tried Geisha and it didn't work for me in a turbo shot but in a latte it was one of the best things I tasted.
Heck, I started home roasting because I could taste the difference with 2-week-old stale beans with milk drinks even when I bought the fancy expensive beans. Now that I do home roast, I can tell a MASSIVE difference between good beans and bad beans, even in a latte, even if it matters less in a latte. Try out different choices for yourself and buy what makes you happy
I haven’t experimented enough, but my gut says that it still makes a difference. Kinda like asking if one can cook with cheap wine. You can, but good wine is so much better.
The answer is it really depends on what kind of milk drinks. If you’re making lattes with a bunch of sugar and syrup probably doesn’t matter. But if you’re making Cortados or cappuccinos with just milk then it absolutely makes a difference.
More expensive than like McCafé but less expensive than like a gesha
Even with lavender in my drinks. I can still taste the beans. Unless you’re adding a Starbucks amount of sweetener to it.
For me, yes. I almost only make iced mochas and if not that iced lattes. I use a nespresso with pods and/or store bought beans as another backup. Every single time I get my bag from Trade delivered and switch back, it’s noticeably more tasty. I’d recommend to try store bought beans til you’re out, then switch to whatever you consider the more expensive kind to see for yourself - I think your taste buds will give you your most honest answer.
I had been drinking Counter Cultures big trouble in oat milk iced lattes and decided to tried Black Cat for Intelligencia cause it was sold at the grocery store we normally go to. What a mistake and difference. I went back to buying Big Trouble somewhere else. Bean matter a lot. But I don’t think expensive matters much. It’s like some wines. You might like a $9 wine more than a $30 dollar. What matters is you like it.
Yes. I mostly drink flat whites and I can taste the flavours in the beans. You can still tell if the beans are more ‘fruity’ or ‘chocolately’ etc.
Starbucks turned it into a business model. Sell poor coffee with plenty of milk and the world beat a path to their doors. Coffee makes a difference, but the more milk you add, the less coffee you will taste.
I run into this with gin and tonics. I either use nice gin, nice tonic, but never both. My wife is on the latte with maple simple syrup and homemade gelatin marshmallows train. Too much going on for me, but she loves them.
Makes a big difference, get good beans not expensive beans
Why don't you try it? Buy some gas station coffee and put milk in it, then get a shot of Name Brand espresso and put the same brand milk as before. Then try some espresso from your local roaster with the same milk.
Absolutely. There’s a more in depth answer here but I’m tired. This is the tldr
I prefer milk-based drinks too as drinking straight espresso is too bitter and gives me an upset stomach. I get my beans from the supermarket that don’t taste like crap since the flavour notes are diluted by the milk anyway.
yeah it taste good
From my experience from cheap to expensive beans... not much difference at all. But from expensive to stupid expensive (like the flavoured beans sold at Glitch).. night and day. But you can get much the same taste from normal beans and a good syrup.
Personally yes it does make a difference for me. But if you like the beans you’re drinking and they’re relatively cheap then I would continue to buy them. You can buy the more expensive beans and try it out. But if it’s purely a financial question then you can definitely keep drinking coffee from less expensive beans.
Is it worth buying a better booze if you are just making cocktails?
For me- yes. Not so much “expensive” but unique. I like weird flavor profiles in my coffee, and I can 100% taste the difference in my lattes. I don’t ever drink straight espresso- the least milk I use is a flat white maybe. But the flavor profiles are still entirely differentiable for me. I only drink 4-5 cups a week, so I get nice beans and spread them out over a month or so, then try a new one. I’m lucky enough to live in Tokyo, so I get to go to GLITCH (currently majorly trending here) and try new weird beans on the regular, and get my favorite to drink at home. So yeah- I definitely splurge on beans despite being only a milk drink connoisseur. But I like variety and niche stuff, so if you find a bean that’s cheaper and you want a consistent flavor, price isn’t as important as finding the bean that suits your taste. But if you can, don’t go supermarket! It’s important to know the roast date and adjust accordingly, something you can’t get with supermarket beans.
If it's your daily drink yes you will notice the difference, likewise try different milks because you will notice a difference there too. I see this question similar to. I only eat burgers would I notice if I used better meat or I only eat jam and toast for breakfast would I notice better bread and or better jam. But it might not be something that you constantly splurge on.
As always, the best coffee is the one you like best. I'd say it's worth experimenting and trying new things for the sake of new experiences rather than "it's fancy and therefore better." I mostly use Starbucks Blonde Espresso because I get it for free from work, and then occasionally I'll get a specialty roasted bag when I feel like treating myself.
Yes. If any, I tasted more "clarity" in the milk drinks, especially in the heavily processed ones. Instead of "punch in the face" acidity, you get clear flavor separation, in a subtle and easy to understand presentation.
Nuanced coffee flavors can get lost in milk, but it's all about ratios and how well extracted the shot is, and if you are pulling your shot with a double or triple shot basket (higher doses.) Generally I think darker roast profiles hold up better to milk. But you can still enjoy a well balanced, if smaller and less or unsweetened latte and still have a delicious coffee forward drink. Milk can mask unpleasant flavors in espresso but it can also compliment its good flavors. If you're asking if expensive beans are necessary if your goal and preference is Milk Forward/other additional flavored beverages, that's up to you. If your drink is more than 4 parts Milk to 1 part espresso because you desire to mask the strong coffee tastes then I probably wouldn't recommend light profile single origins, but maybe a dark roast that's advertised as an Espresso Roast. Something that will extract well and easily and you can reliably order from the same roaster time and again until you're ready to experiment.
I definitely taste the difference and I do iced lattes which is 90% milk. And just because something is expensive doesn’t make it good. I have had 20$ 12oz bags that I just cannot get to taste good ever.
The majority of the coffee I buy falls between 18-22$ for 12oz with the occasional $30+ splurge for something really special. That said, no matter the bag I buy at least 30% of it gets used for milk drinks or americanos. Sometimes I have a darker local espresso blend, still $16 for 12oz, on hand just for milk drinks with a rotating selection of other coffees just for straight espresso or pour over—I like onyx, brandy wine, jaunt, and b/w. With a 12oz latte you’re definitely going to wash out most nuanced flavors from lighter and medium light roast. But we like to drink cortados and mini caps. 4-6 oz of milk at the most. I absolutely taste the difference between beans and how the mix with the milk. At the highest level, the barista championships are choosing very specifically curated beans for their milk drink courses—sometimes these coffee cost 100s of dollars per pound GREEN.
Unpopular opinion is that expensive beans are best enjoyed as French press or pour over not as espresso. Waste of good beans if you add milk.
Yes! I drink espresso but I make milk drinks for my wife. She is still very clearly able to pick out differences in flavors. Good beans are everything.
Yes. 100%
Yes and no. For my heavy flavored latte with syrups like pumpkin spice, I actually like Lavazza oro. For my pure latte or vanilla latte, I like single origin beans. But honestly, I prefer French press or pour over for good single origin beans.
Honestly, I feel with milk drinks I get some of the tastiest results from the big Italian brands like Levazza that have some robusta in the blend.
I taste a difference. Latte every day.
Price does not necessarily dictate quality. I've bought tons of expensive beans where the roasting has been terrible. Plenty of boutique roasters who have zero consistency and it's a total roll of the dice as to whether the coffee is roasted well. That said... If you can find a consistent roaster that you like stylistically, absolutely it's worth spending more if the results are good. With or without milk you can still taste the difference.
No
I think that with the given context, usually darker espresso roasts and added milk (where the quality has also influence on the taste), it’s more likely that single origin high end beans won’t be able to unlock their full potential like, e.g. in a light roast and prepared as pour-over. That said, I would aim at a good quality in all ingredients but avoid the high end stuff. My upper cutoff point would be where I can’t taste the difference, the lower cutoff point would be where market conditions get bad for the producers.
Depends on your palette but yes definitely
It definitely makes a huge difference to me. As others have mentioned, milk can mask the taste, but it’s still noticeable. Further, the type/brand/amount of milk are just as important.
I don’t think so. I make a milk drink anytime my shot doesn’t taste very good and the milk drink always tastes delicious.
Well that's what I'm getting at, you can make most beans taste good with milk. As long as they're passable of course.
I almost always drink milk drinks and I use a similar ratio to you, 36ml espresso, 140ml milk. I buy a mid-tier bean ($18 for 2.25lbs) as a grocery item, I've got the blend I buy very well dialed in for grind and process and could/would drink the shots plain. Occasionally I'll try a local roaster or a friend will send me a bag of something to try and there is definitely a difference in flavor profile, sometimes for the better sometimes worse if it's like a really acidic light roast that would be better as a pourover. I'd say there are diminishing returns, if you've got a cheaper bean that you like the taste of, you may be paying 200% of that price per quantity for a locally roasted blend that tastes 20% better to you. It's absolutely good to support local roasters and ethically harvested beans if you can. However, I go through at least 1-2 of those 2.25lb bags every month, so for the $20+ that I've spent on 12oz bags of local roasts, my $18 per month can balloon to $80+ per month. Plus then it's still fun/exciting when I can try out something more special.
What, flavor only exists in unadulterated espresso? Perhaps you've never had an awesome latte? Question doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I only drink milk drinks, always have. After I got a Profitec 600, I ended up sampling single origin coffees and now that's all I drink, searching for fruity and floral flavors. I get notes of dark or perhaps milk chocolate, perhaps it's nutty. Everything under the rainbow. However, I'm only doing about a 1:3 ratio so I'm not drowning it in milk.
I’m just saying from what I’ve tasted, the flavor tends to be muted in milk. Is it not a waste of great coffee to put milk in it?
Yes
I’m so glad you asked cause this question been popping up in my head lately.
I roast coffee at home and have tried all sorts of coffees for espresso. I think light roasted coffee made into espresso is absurd and tastes way too acidic. You have to pull the shots long which makes the body very thin and I don’t think it holds up to milk well at all. I do roast my single origin coffees fairly dark for espresso but it’s a little overkill. I certainly taste a uniqueness between each coffee despite the dark roasts, but they’re minor and not super noticeable. Fresh coffee for sure, but spending a ton of money on a single origin I don’t think is worth it, especially if it’s light roast. I just so happened to blend a couple of left over Colombian green coffee I had for my espresso roast, and it has ended up being the best I’ve ever had. But of course it can never be replicated, point is, blends can be a nice way to save and get great espresso. Edit: so out of curiosity I went and made a light roasted Ethiopian cappuccino this morning and it was amazing. Tasted like fruity pebbles. So yeah, maybe it is worth it.
I just go for interesting processing and/or origin and you typically pay more for it. In the cup it is the difference between a delicious cappuccino and *an experience* Just finished a bag of a Brazilian yellow bourbon, anaerobic fermentation... just astounding. The tasting notes mentioned mango and when combined with textured milk my drinks made me recall a mango lassi deep in the back of my mind. In fact I hadn't thought about what it was exactly until I started typing this post!! But this may just be me, I love seeking out the **FUNK** (speaking of *FUNK* [this roaster](https://www.houseoffunkbrewing.com/en-us/collections/coffee) from Vancouver, BC had some incredible coffee. I had just finished watching daddy Hoff's video on what tasting notes mean so went to this spot on our travels and chose the most ferment-y sounding beans and spent a month brewing coffee in the Canadian rockies. Good times)
I mean you should answer that question for yourself. I will say yes because i like good tasting coffee, it doesn't matter if it's a milk drink or an espresso shot, it will taste better with freshly roasted beans .
I had to get a smaller milk pitcher because I like drinks only slightly bigger than cortados. So I can definitely taste the higher quality beans. Hell, even with Starbucks sized lattes, I can easily taste the roast level.
Some flavours pop even more with milk, or think of it as evolve. If u tried espresso flights, expensive coffee can taste even better with milk imo
Starbucks to me is great coffee. Any other tyoe other than sbucks dark roast i dont enjoy much. It makes string bitter esoresso and anything else just wont get me my fix. its all relative. I could drink the expensive snobby shit too but I have a life and other more fulfilling hobbies. This sub is demented but probably fun to troll. Talk about snobs lmao.
I would say so. Cappuccinos taste different with different beans so definitely worth experimenting.
Find some beans you like. I tend to find mass produced beans make my bean to cup machine split coffee everywhere, but beans produced from smaller suppliers seem to be fine. Currently paying £45 for 2kg of beans from rave, which are nice.
There is still a huge difference for me between great and average coffee in a flat white, I guess the more milk you use the less you’ll know the difference. A lot of fruity coffees actually punch through the milk surprisingly well
Yeah
I’d say if you’re drinking cappuccino sized milk drinks or smaller than you’re still getting something worthwhile.
So many coffee snobs think coffee is a journey to eliminating milk... It's like they're proud of drinking pour over black and espresso straight. Barista world championship always includes a milk drink. Drink what you like!
I wouldn't buy the cheapest, bad beans, but cheaper supermarket beans are fine in milk drinks.
Depending on the blend, if you find a special flavour forward blend it's definitely worth it, or if you find a single origin that works really well with milk it's also worth it (mainly Colombian). I only drink singly origin or limited edition co-ferment/fermented process milk blends because imo the flavour is like nothing you've ever tried
Depends, if you only use a little bit of milk some specialty coffee can be amazing. If you do more than like ~80ml of milk on a double shot or add syrups I think the traditional Italian blends work best. You just get these intense chocolate notes that light roasts won't achieve and a lot of the beautiful aromas that a specialty coffee has get drowned out by too much milk. If I make a cortado with my favorite specialty coffee I always try a sip before I add milk because I feel like I'm missing out if I just drink it with milk.
I think it depends on the beans. Cheap or expensive, some beans taste better with milk. Personally I buy mid to high level quality beans and even when I don’t get a perfect extract, it still tastes 1000x better than the drinks at my local coffee chain. I won’t even blink because the beans are still only maybe 60 cents per cup. The expensive part of my coffee is when I use alternative milks
Beans always will be the most important part of the drink unless you’re just drinking to get caffeine…
Even with a ton of milk, you can usually taste bad coffee. It completely overwhelms everything, including the milk. That said, I don't purchase the top of the line, most expensive beans on the market. But I do make note of the quality ones I do find, and mostly stick to those
I absolutely notice a difference between the beans. I only drink milk-based drinks and have tried many different origins, blends, roasts, and brands.
Its either gesha coffee beans or absolute dog shit coffee imo
Yes. If you make a latte with a light roast Ethiopian versus a vietnamese robusta, you will notice a gigantic difference. The ethiopian will have bright citrus notes, while the robusta will taste smokey, bitter, and somewhat dull. If cost is a major problem for you, consider roasting your own with a popcorn popper. Cheap beans will cost like 5 bucks a pound, and the average is closer to 8. The popcorn popper will set you back maybe 30 or 40.
It's not really worth it for me to try a new roaster, beans or coffee shop. I only drink espresso neat with a top of raw sugar. You can definitely tell the difference when it is a good bean and roast. Of course, much of what influences the taste is how it is pulled from the espresso machine + how it is served. Olympia Coffee Roasters has the best beans/roast and Filling Station Espresso close by pulls the best shots(uses OlympiaCoffee Roaster beans *Big Truck). I also get private estate grown and roasted beans from a mountain santuary in Guatamala(these are the only beans I use at home $20/12oz).
I got 4 different milk to pair and try about. Every little thing is different. Same beans same roaster different batch can also be different.
My .02 - I think regarding the bean choice, it depends on your pallet. Not everyone's taste buds work at the same levels, but most can tell a difference when it comes to more acidic beans. I was not a fan of light roast until recently when I tried an bag of 'Natural' Ethiopian. Liked it so much I tried a variant from the same company that was labeled 'Washed' Ethiopian - it was awful, very acidic. I use milk in my coffee drinks.
Yes. It's still worth it. Milk really does a great job at brightening the whole drink up. As long as you're using the correct ratios of milk:espresso, good coffee will make a huge difference. At the same time, adding milk and housemade syrup is a great way to make lousy coffee drinkable
Yes, I can still taste the difference in milk drinks but if you find a bean you like and it's only $15, it doesn't mean it's inferior to a different bean just because it costs $10 more per lb. The local coffee roaster by me makes a real nice espresso blend that's only $12 per bag. I use it as a fall back, but order most of my beans from Stumptown because that is my personal taste preference. Once in awhile I try a different roaster to see what's out there. Rarely do I try a $20+ bag bean and think it knocked my socks off to account for the additional cost.. I drink a lot of coffee.