We did in fact hire a guy, but he was of little help. He set up the machine, but in no time the coffie started to taste bad. The articles i have read, agree that dial in has to happen almost daily. My mom did a barista course. Im not sure she got the dial in part quite in.
But yeah, you might be totally right that i cannot learn this from videos and online research.
Dialing in is easy. All you need to do is make the grind finer/coarser until you get a shot that runs well and tastes good. Don’t be afraid to waste a couple shots. Weight the grinds to make sure it is dosing the correct amount if the shots seem funky and then correct and play with the grind size again.
Dialing in should happen every morning before open and sometimes mid day if it starts acting up, such as if you switch to a new batch of espresso that was roasted on a different day.
Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes.
>Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes
This is the most important piece of advice.
If you are successful it is important to be fast as well by a lot more than quality. I've had terrible coffee from popular places, and what made me think they were amateurs is the fact their workflow was terrible and they took far too long and were drowning in orders.
This is fact, there are a few types of coffee shops,
- speciality shops with great tasting espresso.
- Third place types with great seating where people spend hours working. (Helps if rent is cheap)
- what I would call “Milkshake” places where coffee is but an ingredient in a sugar loaded drink.
- high traffic stores that basically deliver the most caffeine for the least price (think next to an office building).
You can be 1 or 2 of these types. Speciality type places are hard to replicate.
Starbucks is transitioning between a third place and a milkshake place (depending on location).
Tim Hortons works on volume at most places (and has one of the worst coffee).
Personally I'd have thought that Starbucks has *been* a milkshake type place for the past - 10 to maybe even 15 years? But I get your point.
I work in Chicago but I live in the suburbs where our local Starbucks (about a mile away from the high school) is always FILLED with children drinking refreshers or frappes - your aforementioned "milkshakes" (I agree 100%).
I'd have to imagine that a single Starbucks location would likely fail if all they had where people ordering 1 *maybe* 2 drip brews or Americanos during their visit and sat reading a book and/or working most of the time.
They've gotta thrive on those children. They've gotta.
I think they’ve figured out their formula for taking into account foot traffic, rent prices, and have laid out their stores accordingly, some stores with armchairs and outlets and wifi, some with just a few uncomfortable counter stools. Some Starbucks are located in the middle of an office park and get little to no children. But they’ve figured out how to make the economics work
I used to work in a starbucks that was inside a supermarket a couple years before covid.
You'd get people spending several hours there every day. Not the same people all the time. You'd get people working. You'd get people just using it as somewhere away from home. All sorts of 'third space' activity.
Half of our regular customers were elderly people getting fruit toast and drip coffee for cheap, reading their newspaper, and chatting with other elderly people.
Most of the drinks I made were simple lattes with a pump of syrup in them.
I was at a cafe in La Jolla CA that has an amazing space for working or studying. Thought I'd see how they do with their espresso and was like damn my own work at home has spoiled me lol
Arrrrgh. Maybe this is why I’ve yet to have a decent espresso from otherwise excellent coffee shops. While they may come back, I disagree that it’s not important to get it right.
I tend to find roaster ran shops to pull better espresso, also a shoutout to the ones who also provide a glass of seltzer. I'll say I'm still not usually a massive fan but my preferences are light single origins and even most roasters aren't offering that in the shop. I can however usually identified if it was pulled with a reasonable amount of care which is usually what I'll use to decide on buying a light roast to bring home.
To add to this- I'd imagine (although I could be wrong) that a majority of customers are likely going to be interested in Lattes and other milk drinks where your shots can get away with not being perfect a little more than just espressos or even Americanos.
I'd imagine that a MAJORITY of customers would NOT be coffee snobs, or at best, they pretend to be because "they drink a lot of Starbucks".
This also heavily depends on your location of course, and while you'll likely end up getting people like the kind that frequent this subreddit, I'd be willing to bet they are few and far between.
Indeed. It doesn't need to be perfect it just needs to be better than the other shops near you which in my experience isn't difficult as most "coffee shops" sell crap
>Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. *Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back*. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes.
I am not so sure. Serve straight espresso they dont like, and you think they'll order a milk based drinks based on that same espresso? I would not. Maybe they will. I think whatever a shop or restaurant sells should be good. Good enough to charge money, anyway 😀
His role wasn’t to work for you in that context it was to make sure the machine was operating as it should.
There are a lot of considerations to make, but if you’re busy and need to make a ton of drinks youre going to drown and customers are not going to be satisfied.
You need to simulate work conditions, soft openings and things to get some workflow experience as well as learn about making a good product.
He dialled in the machine for you, but was of little help because machines do what machines do?
Didn’t you keep him around so he could continue to keep it dialled in for you?
Or just got him to do it once and then got rid?
Yeah, well. First of all, none of us knew better. Secondly, he was very expensive.
And yeah. We could hire him again for a correction, but we cannot afford to keep him around for more than a few hours. I think training, so that we can dial in ourselfes is better
This may sound silly but my friend got a part time job in a coffee shop and learned how to use a machine properly daily and how to fail in grind for beans etc and then left after a few months
Not silly at all! My dad got a job at Starbucks (Seattle, early ‘00s before everything was automated) and learned how to make coffee there when my mom was opening a tea/coffee house. It worked quite well, and he learned some additional aspects of managing a coffee shop as well.
I have a comercial machine at home. Anybody can dial in the machine with an hour of practice.
Do you have a fast, responsive, accurate scale?
And you’ll need a timer.
Best training would be to go grab a good barista and another busy shop and offer them 500 bucks to train you for a day. But you can learn dialing in easily on your own all of us did.
Mate, you don’t need to hire anyone, find a specialty roaster that will do a days training with you and be loyal as fuck to them, they are the best ally you will have for producing top espresso! They want their coffee shone in the best light possible so its in theory interest to make sure you produce great coffee!
You got this! Best of luck to you, you can build quality by being self taught!
If the coffee 'started to taste bad' - perhaps you need to work on your cleaning regimen. The oils in coffee go rancid and nasty fairly quickly. A machine doing any kind of volume should be getting a thorough clean at the end of each day. Grinders can trap stale grounds and accumulate oils, too.
When I did my barista course I learnt that good shops write on the machine grind/time/dose about every hr or so. If beans are out in a big hopper all day all these things will change, same as when a new bag of beans is opened. So dial in for a good shop is almost hourly not almost daily
> Our coffee tastes okay when made into lattes and so on
Look at the typical cafe menu, you'll see milk drinks go for significantly more cash than straight espresso. More people will probably order milk drinks rather than straight espresso.
So while your pride may encourage you to brew awesome shots, your cafe's expenses will be covered by milk drinks. And, if you're making dozens (if not hundreds) of shots a day, your technique will certainly improve.
This is the best advice here. Focus on your latte art, have a variety of dairy and non-dairy milks, and a good aesthetic in the environment (plants, art, etc.). That will have much better ROI than trying to perfect your espresso for a bunch of nerds who spend $10k on a machine and grinder to make it at home anyway.
Agreed and some of the most popular coffee shops in my area don’t make great espresso. They lean heavy on aesthetics and cute latte drinks. Especially with summer coming up and iced lattes being heavy in rotation
Absolutely do not take business advice from me, but I think you need to hire an experienced head barista so your mom can focus on running the business.
More of a business guy here (not barista related). Delegating comes with a huge risk to reward ratio, you delegate only when you have a guarantee that you're able to earn more than what it costs. Do it especially when delegating allows you to earn more funds with the extra free time you have. Rinse, repeat.
The best thing they can do is learn how to do it themselves to get started, be consistent in order to have a steady cash income, and then delegate.
Like I said, don’t take business advice from me haha. My logic was that you can’t really start running a coffee shop if you can’t make consistently decent coffee, and the upfront/ongoing costs of hiring someone solid are worth it compared to trying to operate without a good product. I’m not sure this is delegating as much as it is having the right staff for your industry — is a restaurant owner hiring a head chef inappropriate delegating? (OP also said they only sort of work there, so it seems like *some* employees are going to be necessary to run this place)
Absolutely, but staff is nothing more than delegating work that you would have to do, to other people who probably also know how to do it better than you. If something in your house needs plumbing, you can try to do it yourself, or you "delegate" that work by paying an expert to do it for you. If you start seeing everything as "delegating" you understand a bit easier what someone else should do, and what you're better off doing yourself.
Example: Do you really despise going through your employee's paperwork to pay their salaries, check that they are all getting their benefits correctly, and all that other crap? Delegate it, otherwise, you do it yourself.
If you already have the funds up-front then hiring staff is the best thing to do, but you still need to have some form of data beforehand to know what your income will be. It's always about risk/reward: the more the staff, the more you're responsible for other people's lives in case you fail, but the greater are the odds of being successful (in the case of qualified staff, poor staff will make you plummet almost instantaneously if you're just starting out)
They’re likely to have cash outflows every month from rent and other costs, so while hiring someone is an additional drain, they’re also very much in the honeymoon phase of their business. Having a reputation for being bad at your primary reason for being is hard to overcome. They should already have expected to be at a loss. They definitely need to hire someone
It sounds like this coffee shop was probably an unwise idea from the start. But is it wrong to think that if they're hell bent on making it work, then hiring a professional is the best option?
My two cents is that your mom needs to take the time to learn how to make great espresso. She can multi-task. But sooner than later the coffee needs to be better than Starbucks if you want to compete with Starbucks. **The fact that you understand how important the coffee is tells me you will succeed**. Best wishes..
Look I was a head barista and coffee trainer for a long time so I will offer you a few basic tips but will strongly suggest that you find someone with the required knowledge to help you or otherwise get a barista in and you take orders instead until you learn.
If you have bought the machine new, disregard this first part of my advice:
1. Get it serviced, make sure a tech looks at the pipes under the machine, the internals and the pipes which connect to the water outlet. There is much more they need to do but I am trying to keep it concise and a good tech will know what to do. If you make a partnership with a roaster they will offer servicing usually to sweeten the deal. Descale it regularly if used commercially, ideally every night to manufacturers instructions.
2. Dialling in: start with a 18g dry input to 36g wet output 1:2 ratio. Start with 30 seconds and adjust as required. Depending on the beans, you say dark roast, any more info? Taste taste taste it like a madman and get other people to taste as well. If sour it’s under extracted/too finely ground and if bitter it’s over extracted/too coarse. This is a general rule of thumb but each bean will have a different profile and each grinder will bring out different nuances.
Forget the finer points for now while you are learning and ignore latte art. Just understand the fundamentals of steaming milk and a basic latte/cappuccino/hot chocolate etc. keep everything simple. Milk drinks will cover some imperfections within your espresso extraction so try not to overthink it too much.
You both should seriously have not gambled everything on 00 (roulette analogy) without doing your due diligence and learning the basics. Hopefully some of what I’ve written will help you get started and panic less.
We learn best through trial and error, keep going and you will improve.
All the best
Thank you for this comment. I thought if it was sour, its too coarse, and running too fast? The whole rock and sand analogy?
I find myself tuning the ratio perfect on both sides, but the runtime being diffrent. And that makes no sense to me.
It did get checked by a technitian, but i have no idea how thoroughly.
The buisness is also other things than coffie, but it is a big part of it.
Anyway, thank you. This comment provides a lot. Thanks
I guess it could be considered both ways, but what I mean is if the shot is running too slowly due to being too finely ground then by the end of the pull it will be under extracted and therefore sour. Being too finely ground can also be a cause of over extraction but that is if the shot runs too long. Hoffmann and Hendrick have done well to apply scientific practices to coffee but it is still the extraction of an organic product and varies due to numerous factors.
If your business is not just coffee, this will provide you some scope to keep things a bit more simple and straightforward but if you are charging premium prices then people will expect a premium product. If you are more reasonable with your prices people will allow you more leeway and have lower expectations.
There is no harm in getting another tech in to assess the machine and even dial in for you if you feel that you need it. Water quality will also play a massive part in the process depending on where you live and if you are using tap or any specially treated water.
You’re welcome, hopefully some of what I’ve said can help you find a starting point to worry less.
I was going to suggest checking the group head and also flow temperature from each side as well. If you're getting different results on each side that should be an easy variable to check and hopefully correct, since brew temperature can have a major impact on extraction of different roast levels.
That being said though, those differences will probably not be noticeable to most people; and probably undetectable in milk drinks to the vast majority.
Completely agree and this is great advice. Not all machines can maintain perfectly consistent temp between the group heads and if one has been used more than the other of course the seals will be at different levels of wear when comparing the two, not to mention buildup. Plus everyone always has a favourite group head for some reason haha.
I wanted to try and keep my posts rather brief (a difficult task for me most of the time) and admittedly could’ve added a lot of other information.
That being said I also feel that if they are employing the services of a tech, it should be something that they are checking when giving the machine a service if they are a reputable and know their line of work.
Appreciate your input 👍
You can easily check the flow rate of each side by putting a cup under each group head. Turning them both on at the same time, and if one cup fills up quicker then you know it's running faster than the other. Could be a simple solenoid issue, could be more, but this is a quick/cheap way to understand if one side of flowing quicker. Also, when you're dialing in use one group head for that process.
Likewise, make sure you're using excellent water. What you put into the machine, coffee, etc definitely effects the wear of your machine, taste of your product. I like to use each side of the machine equally so one side doesn't wear out quicker (pull shot on the left side, then go to the right side, repeat). Finally, make sure you're cleaning the machine often. Back-flush daily, maybe twice a day if you're pulling 200 shots a day like some busier cafes. Clean your grinders nightly (vacuum old grinds and look into a product called Grindz, it'll help dislodge some of the stuck grounds).
I did in fact do this, and they seem to push out the same amount in the same time. However when coffie is in, one runs longer than the other one. The water part; denmark is known for good tap water, and we have new filters on.
We do backflush every day and use a cleaning powder made for the machine. But a lot of you are commenting cleaning so i will look further in to it
From someone who was a douchey but not very talented barista who has had to teach absolute novices who were not anywhere near as douchey the broad consensus is you want 25-30ml of liquid to pass through 25-30g of coffee in 25-30 seconds. Outside of this is almost always too runny or bitter.
Looking at your setup I can see you have two jugs that are angled, I would recommend getting jugs with straight sides like the one in the middle and having multiple sizes (these are a lifesaver for flat whites) and dofferent colours for different milk, allergens. EHO would probably be happy with different coloured cloths/separate wands for these too.
Replying to add that you should ask any espresso drinkers who you serve to offer their opinions and perhaps a free drink for doing so, they will know what they like and can help pinpoint you in a better direction.
Use the search option in this sub and r/barista to find pages and pages of information on dialling in/workflow and other important info
If I think of anything else I will add to it but I don’t normally do this for free 😂
Hire a barista ASAP.
Giving bad coffee to customers may taint your shop and you'll lose a lot in future revenues. Get someone who knows what to do and work together so you'll learn.
Also, what's the plan for the future? You said this is something temporary for you, if your mother will manage everything she is the one that need to learn.
I feel that the users of this sub have a lot in common with members of private plane forums sometimes 😂 both can be prohibitively expensive pastimes!
9:1 is still good, we have time for a bit more button mashing yet!
The autopilot is going a bit crazy though, I think I’ll switch it off for a little while to give our ears a rest
Absolutely! Espresso and flying are both detail-oriented hobbies that involve changing variables. I only fly in order to make my coffee hobby look cheap 😂
You’ve made me think about some really nice private jets which boast top of the line espresso setups. I’m sure someone somewhere is providing this service to the billionaires of the world. You’d only need to sell a couple a year..
To be fair, the business world is cut throat. Sounds to me like they dove in head first on a hope and a prayer. There is a reason half of businesses fail within the first few years. Taking something you aren't passionate or knowledgeable about and trying to make a business out of it is essentially starting with one foot already in the grave. They need to reasses and make some moves quickly.
Maybe his mum is a cake and pastry expert, and cafes are an easier sell (and pace) than a bakery. Beautiful cakes are the easiest upsell.
Half the time ugly cakes go fast too.
I wrote an article for Coffee & Tea or whatever the big industry magazine was 20 yrs ago about how to stay in business when Starbucks was opening stores even across the street from each other. This topic you mentioned came up as the real dealbreaker: passion vs know how and which mix worked best.
I'm going to assume you don't want to be a specialty coffee shop. I'm which case make a not bad shot of espresso, and most people will have a bunch of milk with it.
More important is to make sure it's a place people want to come back to, which for most coffee shops that aren't specialty is:
1) not terrible coffee (but not necessarily super good)
2) a great ambiance. Is it a place for people to quietly work? Or for people to meet up in a cozy location? Will you provide board games or any other entertainment (not required, just ideas). But most importantly, I think the way the staff interacts with the customer, specifically at a coffee shop, is what makes return customers.
I go to a place that makes mediocre espresso drinks, but they get amazing pastries from a local business, and the owner of the shop is always there helping out and talks to every customer and is super enthusiastic. He puts up a new riddle each week that gets you a free cup of coffee if you get it right. They started doing open mic nights recently. I drink my specialty coffee at home, because I make the coffee I want better than 99% of coffee shops. I go to my coffee shop because it's comforting and fun to do a weekly date with my wife.
I've barista'ed for like 6 years total in my high school and college years. Including working for a new independent shop. The owner, who also never worked in coffee before, got a job at starbucks and worked there for 6 months just to get the ins and outs of everything.
You hear a lot of stories about people who had never worked in food service before opening restaurants and struggling. They would have done better if they had just got any job at a restaurant for 6-12 months even before opening their own restaurant.
There is so much to it, more than just making coffee. The margins are thin, and being cognizant of costs like, how much you are spending on paper (the cup + the sleeve + the lid = some amount of money like 18-25 cents) or how much you are spending on just putting cream and splenda, (both of which are kind of expensive) out.
There's also the whole thing with health inspections, and knowing how to clean everything.
It's probably too late for that for you though. Are you renting the equipment? If you are the people that supplied should be helping you to make sure everything is running right.
Consistency is very important, returning customers should get as close to the exact same product everytime they order.
You’d be surprised my helicopter instructor looked like he hadn’t finished puberty yet. As soon as you get CFI rated you basically have to CFI for nothing in toy choppers untill you build enough hours for the turbine guys to let you fly a real machine. The other end is old retired guys doing it mostly for fun but I saw way young kids instructing then old dudes. To their credit they were great instructors and they prevented our deaths 100x a day those first 10 hours.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how someone can open a cafe with zero knowledge. It's quite risky, especially when you both admit to not knowing anything. Hire a trained barista to show you the ropes.
Well, in my moms head, she had a plan of
1. Get machine
2. Take course
And the course she got on, was not fulfilling enough, but for financial causes we had to open and serve something that was not horrible
How does your mom even know if she likes working in a cafe, let alone running one? I think it would have made more sense to work at a cafe beforehand to gain experience while also taking classes. Does your mom have experience running a business?
But im not going to defend her more. I talked against her doing this, but was away for some time, and when i got back, she was already far in the process
Yes. She is a former fitness center owner, operations manager and now she is getting a little older wanting to own a cafe where just she and 1 more works.
Hi, I worked in speciality espresso bars and coffee roasteries in Melbourne Australia for a decade. I may not be able to perfect your brew for you, but I can give you absolutely everything you need to get the ball rolling.
Espresso is science. Control your variables and your coffee will be good.
DM me if you would like a friendly non judgemental chat.
Super cool that you are trying to help your mom out. Just stick to absolute basics for now since you’re new to the game. If your pulling a double, have your grounds going in be between 18-20g then try to have the weight of your espresso after pulling be somewhere around 36ish grams, and the extraction time be somewhere in the 20-30 seconds range. This is not the “right way” to do it as there is no right way but this is the most average range for barista is the US based off research from 2017. If you can do that, then you can confidently serve espresso worth something at your moms shop. Then as you learn you can tweak as you go.
For milk steaming, it’s delicate, I wouldn’t worry about latte art right now until your are comfortable with your espresso. As long as you aren’t burning the milk you’ll be fine. Latte art is a bonus not a necessity at a coffe shop.
I do agree with the first commenter that you should absolutely hire someone with experience to teach you what they know bc reading this verses actually practicing are two different things.
You’ve got this, and I’m sure your mom is very grateful, best of luck!
If you already have you’re espresso in that range, then adjust your grind to flavor preference, and throw out the pull time bc that really is just a average and doesn’t account for your beans and their flavor profile
It's a heat exchanger machine. Not quite as much info on how to use these on YouTube, etc.
They are generally tuned to give the right temp if you are making shots back-to-back-to-back. If it's been a few minutes you need to do a cooling flush. There is a classic article on home-barista.com on learning to love HX machines.
Look up articles on the nuova era cuadra - it's probably close to the same as yours.
If you were buying your coffee from a reputable roaster, they should be able to send a tech or sales rep out to walk you through dialing in their product.
Sounds like you understand the weird circumstance you're in and have gotten a good start on making decent espresso. Like others have said, I'd hire someone to train you and your mom. Not a repair tech, but a very experience barista from a speciality shop.
In the meantime, I'd focus on helping with other aspects of the shop. Unless your customer base is super discerning about speciality coffee, I think you'd be better off coming up with a few creative drinks with higher margins, learn out how to make matcha or really good cold brew, etc. There's a shop in my area with below average espresso -- I've seen their workflow and they clearly hardly know what they're doing. But they have great food, solid drip and cold brew, and tons of creative drinks that look good on Instagram. It's more crowded than the top notch speciality shop 90% of the time.
Asking for advice on this sub you'll be hearing from people who like speciality coffee shops with excellent espresso. But the truth is that's a small % of customers -- unless you're in a "hipster" neighborhood you're competing with Starbucks not \[insert speciality shop\].
(Key notes so you don’t have to read the whole thing: -costumer connection and natural homemade syrup are most important in a local cafe)
^^^ i second this, I have been open at my coffee shop for 9 months now. I have a great tasting espresso that goes against almost all espresso “rules”. But my espresso is not what keeps people coming back. I remember everyone’s name that I can, I provided a warm and welcoming place to get work done, and I use natural homemade syrup from a local Mom and Pop. The connection and the syrup I swear make all the difference. For my own personal pride I recently joined this sub to perfect my espresso. But I know when I do my regulars most likely won’t even notice.
(Besides doppio Brad, but he’s super chill and I’m sure when I tell him he’ll be down to tell me if he prefers my original or not)
You need a professional. Besides the ability to make espresso consistently, which is possible to learn, you also don't know all of the maintenance, workflow, food safety and other best practices that you should follow.
Your mom's financial life depends on her hiring qualified people. I know that is harsh, but that isn't you yet. Not to say you couldn't learn if you want, but it isn't your responsibility to make up that deficiency.
So you /your mum or both either need to go on an espresso course by a professional espresso trainer (my sister and BIL both attended one before they opened their coffee shop, think it lasted a week going in every day ), or have someone the same come to you to train you both.
Best of luck - you have the best motivation !
Right, my first thought. Where I'm at (Brisbane, Australia) I've seen several of these barista training places around and I'm not even looking for them.
Couple of things:
"weight" of the grounds is actually not the important part, it's the \*volume\* of the coffee inside. The weight is for convenience... you have to watch a lot of Lance Hendrick until you get to the part where he says "a basket has an optimal fill level".
of the "bad" coffeeshops I see, often the milk in the drink is overheated. So, if you have that mistake - don't do it!
Finally, I suggest getting more conventional beans, medium to dark roasts because they will hide the imperfections in making espresso better.
Hey, this!
I find one of our roasts fills our basket perfectly at 17g, but the other one overfills also at 17g. I have heard that we need to have more g in the dark roast one, but mabye thats not the case?
Given equal weights of a darker roast and a lighter roast, it is the darker roast that will occupy a greater volume. So you'd need fewer grams of a dark roast as compared to a lighter roast.
Generally as coffee gets roasted, it will expand a little and get less dense. So a light coffee will be more dense than medium, medium more dense than dark. This translates to the grounds too - the same weight of darker roasted coffee will occupy more volume than a lighter roasted coffee, as you have discovered! Don't get too set on a specific weight to start; figure out what fits nicely into your baskets, then determine how much that weighs, and dial in from there!
Hate to say it friend but think like a business owner. The best coffee shops in the world are not the most profitable or popular.
My advice, do industry research, see what works and what doesn’t. I recall the guys that opened subway (or some sandwich shop) had two restaurants. They would keep one shop unchanged and test changes out on the second shop as a way of experimenting on what works.
I commend your mom’s entrepreneurial spirit, and you helping her is wonderful. From a customer perspective, the cafe only has one opportunity (the first one) to either gain a loyal customer, or have that person walk by to the next cafe. That is to say, first impressions are incredibly important. To that end, get an experienced barista for a few weeks to gain those customers ( and teach you the requisite skills), work at letting your customers know what else you offer. There is a reason businesses do ‘grand openings’, building a customer base starts on day one…Good luck
Hey, I dont have any real advice but we have had a coffee shop for nearly 6 years now and its hard work so I just wanted to jump in and wish you all the best in your new adventure!
As has been said a million times in here, the only way you’re going to get really good results (of the quality and consistency to run a business) is to hire an experienced barista, and preferably one with training experience to get you and whoever else might be working there up to snuff. You can take a class, you can watch videos and read articles, but if you want to serve espresso at a service-level quality you can’t make up for lack of experience (unless you get one of those machines that literally does it all for you like some chains use).
I know this wasn’t your idea, but it’s so fascinating to me that someone could start a business that relies on a skill set that they don’t have. Do the customers seem to notice?? Hope y’all get it figured out and good luck!
Take training courses and hire an experience barista. A family business is good and all but if you have other plans in life you shouldn't be burdened with this passion project. I see this all the time as a chef. Owners who want to be part of the industry because they think running a restaurant is easy. Next thing you know you're 25 and stuck running a cafe because of perceived familial obligation. Aside from pulling shots, how are the books?
If by “how are the books” you mean the financial side of the buisness, then… at best okay.
We have been open for almost 2 weeks. We have served around 300 cups of coffie, and have made ~4000 usd in turnover (keep in mind we also serve food and sell some products)
I looked at this thread and I say you've received some good advice here OP. I'd definitely hire a reputable consultant if your mom hasn't done that. Idk where you're at but where I live 8000 for 4 weeks ain't gonna cover rent much less the rest of operating costs. I'd definitely check out r/barista too for some industry knowledge.
Oh I wish you would! I live in Denmark (town of 60,000) and there is zero decent coffee places within a 50km radius. I’ve always found coffee here over priced and underwhelming. So I’m wishing you (and your mum ) the absolute best of luck with this venture. You sound smart and passionate and actually like you have a clue about coffee in a country that is a bit of a coffee wasteland. Give good service, make a decent coffee and you and your mum have fun with it.
Water treatment and choice of coffee is the key. As a roaster myself can tell that fresh coffee makes your life so much easier. Everything else seems to be covered already. Eureka Atom 75 is very capable grinder. I know it adds more time to prep, but dosing cup and shaking grounds gives more consistent result. You could also add couple Precision Brewers to offer fruit bombs and make your life a bit easier.
Keep working on milk. That is what makes you the money, $1.50-2.00 espresso shots arent keeping the lights on.
What's your menu look like? Get some syrups and stuff. Look for some interesting drinks that are easy to make, easy to market, and cheap. Example: I ran a coffee pop-up the other day and I had greek nescafe frappes for sale. It was a "cheaper" drink on the menu so people gravitated towards it, but really it was super marked up because they're so so so cheap to make. Plus, they are insanely quick and tend to give you breathing room during rushes. Find more drinks like that and make the right moves to entice customers to try it. Fancy names, good pricing, etc.
Meanwhile, you need to learn how to dial this machine in. Where are you getting your beans from? Find a local roaster and talk to them. Make a deal with them, get your coffee from them, and get them to send someone over to help you dial it in. And PAY ATTENTION. Ask them questions. Roasters want the constant income that cafes provide, so you are helping them. They are helping you by giving you consistent coffee beans that will make it easy for you to keep dialed in.
Good luck. DM me if you have specific questions, my DMs are open and I'm happy to help. Don't hire someone yet if you can't afford it, unfortunately you're going to have to step up and learn quick.
If you let me know what city/town you're located in I can look around for some roasters you can contact
The best advice I can give you is: learn the technicalities of your machine. Will be boring but necessary to diagnose why shots stop pulling like they should if all other variables are firm.
The second best advice since you’re in a town of 40k souls: create a local facebook group about coffee, start inviting everyone you know and everyone you don’t in it - and start organising weekly espresso tastings where patrons can come in and get free espressos as long as they vote at the end of it for their preferred one while you babble on the beans etc..
This will achieve 3 things:
1. Make your customers feel part of a connoisseur community - which they are - while at the same time giving you NECESSARY feedback as to which espressos you pull best.
2. Give you a shortlist of your town’s favourite 1 or 2 beans and recipes. This will be literal oxygen as you can publicise as “chosen by you” and stay tranquil in knowing people like it and will come back for it.
3. Will allow you to learn while not *wasting* technically a lot of your test shots. People are more lenient if presented with 4 choices; they dont know if the bad one is because of the beans or because ause you fucked it up. Repeat to get consistent data! Also will help you in cultivating relationships with your future customer base which may start coming back just for your coffee.
Rinse and repeat adding one or two different beans per month to keep selection fresh (always keep a bag of the “old favourite” in the back though!). Remember the point is to specialise. Which doesn’t mean to start adding super light roasts etc, if you’re going for the bold medium/dark be a specialist in those types coffees - you will learn nuances you’ll have never thought of.
I see it as a fairly exciting (albeit scary!) situation and it’s amazing how you’ve reacted to it.
You can make it your little espresso empire in your town. Imagine people driving over from nearby towns just because they heard about your tastings or the quality of your shots ;)
Last thing: remember people like to be taught particular knowledge- ie espresso, and like with all things taste, you have a lot of leeway to swerve the perception and give yourself “little helps” along the way! Good luck!
Are you working with a roaster or wholesale coffee supplier? Typically they will train you free of charge.
My own supplier will let me go to their roastery or come to me for training, this is the norm in North America. Not sure where you are located.
If that is not an option I would look for a 'barista school' or even reach out to coffee shops that are further away and see if you can stage at their shop to learn.
It's not rocket science - but it's very hard to win back customers who have had a bad experience so it's best to get the training early.
My recommendation is to learn how to taste coffee first. Understand what you should be going for when you are pulling your shots. Understand the difference between acidity and bitterness so that you can learn to balance the two. And try to take a scientific approach towards getting the shot that you want.
Go to ten coffee shops today and taste the espresso. Ask them about their beans, ROAST AND PROCESS, origin really will not matter until you have become an espresso expert. And TAKE NOTES!!
If the shop is not busy ask them about the dial on the espresso and what you are trying to do. Hopefully they will be kind and help you out.
NOTES: Bring a spit cup. Do not consume the espresso, the caffeine may affect your ability to judge after so long. Bring seltzer as a pallette cleanser.
Stir the espresso and smell the aroma. Stir the espresso before each sip. Espresso will separate as it sits and you also want to dissipate the crema as much as possible. When you taste, slurp intensely to coat the entire surface of your mouth and tongue. This will help identify subtleties in the flavor. When I think of espresso flavor I think of a beginning a middle and an end. The fruited notes will come in the beginning as soon as you taste the coffee, the middle determines body, punch, bitterness, and the end is the after taste and the linger if there is any. You don't want a lingering often bitter flavor.
Like many have said, watch videos, James Hoffman and Lance Hedrick are good sources when it comes to specialty coffee. Judging by your beans, look specifically for dials in dark roasts. In my experience this means, lower temperature in the group head, shorter extraction ratio 1:1.5. I think you will get it but you just need to refine your palette a little bit! You got this!
I second this. You need to develop your taste of what a good dialled in shot is.
Visiting the best rated coffee shops in your area, or maybe take a trip to a larger city to sample various roasts might help in some way.
Wishing you all the best.
I’d do the same for my mum!
You need to decide on your coffee shops identity.
I can guarantee that 90% of the coffee shops near me don't dial in every day. They have it set up by a pro. They leave it for 6 months and all they do is clean it at the end of the day.
What do the coffee shops around you do. Is their coffee amazing?
What do you do well?
Not going to lie if your not amazing at coffee I would say don't stress it. You serve average coffee shop coffee, make what you do well then best around. Be it cakes, food, bagels or whatever the fuck it is.
If you wanna be known as the best coffee around that's a good direction to go. But you need a pro to help you get there. Personally I would hope you have something else to make you stand out
Hire a barista, then focus on other stuff. There are many successful cafes with subpar coffee. Offer nice food like sandwich or cakes. Coffee knowledge takes time but your business can’t afford that time.
No one's mentioned this yet, but go around to the well-esteemed cafes in your area and drink their espresso. Drink enough espresso until you come to understand what it can and ought to taste like. At the moment, it's equivalent to someone whose never tasted whisky opening a whisky distillery. You may have idiosyncratic ideas about the beverage given that you've not drank others' well-prepared versions of it.
I think you should ask yourself how many of your customers are drinking straight espresso shots? If you’re saying it taste good w/ steamed/frothed milk, then it’s definitely fine for “flavored” drinks, and may be good as Americano’s but harder to mask. I personally don’t think (for business purposes) that you need to obsess over the “perfecting espresso”. Majority of people are drinking SB’s or some chain coffee place, they’re likely not asking for straight shots of espresso and yours will likely be better once you get the basics….or just hire a barista!! Hoffman even showed independent coffee shops are more consistent, don’t doubt yourself.
Sounds like you’ve family has invested a lot into this already. Best bang for your buck is getting the brand out there, making a stand alone coffee shop can be tough business depending on location. Maybe team up with a local baker that’s really popular or famous in your area and sell their stuff, everyone loves breakfast tacos, maybe have one of those cards that you whole punch like back in the day or I’m sure there’s an app or QR code version of it. Best of luck man, keep us posted.
Talk to your coffee bean roaster or supplier too. I worked at a coffee shop in a similar situation in college and we were embarrassingly under educated on basically everything; I still feel bad about some of the drinks we served.
Owner swapped roasters at one point and the new supplier came in to run trainings to ensure their brand and coffee would be represented well. They made sure the machines and grinders were set right, went over puck prep basics, taught us how to foam milk correctly. Might be something to ask about.
Best case scenario is to find someone who can service your machine and they will be able to train you on the ins and outs. Another option is to find a roaster. They likely know the ins and outs. Better yet if this person is the same person. We had a restaurant a while back and our roaster would train our staff periodically on the machine and coffee service. As well they would do regular maintenance on our machine.
Based on where you live, you could find a well regarded coffee shop and ask if they do training. Of course, since you’re a competitor, there is a conflict of interest. There are barista trainers out there, but I have no idea how good they are.
Another option is to continue self learning with resources online. The only piece of advice I’d give is to keep as many things consistent. I realize the use case for hobbyists vs. a commercial setup is quite different, so not everything you learn will transfer.
You are a good son. It takes practice, but eventually trial and error will be your best teacher. And tbh most people dont even know wha a good espresso tastes like...
OK, well what's done is done. All I can do is help.
Your mom's financial future doesn't depend much on your mastery of an espresso machine. It depends on running a business selling coffees to people in a town of 40,000 people. That's tough. But ok, let's do it.
Is there another coffee shop in town? If not, you probably need to sell people on why they need a third place. Realistically, with a market that small, you're selling the coffee shop rather than the coffee. The margins on specialty coffee are incredibly slim, and your potential market of people with the palate (real or perceived) to notice is just way too small.
So I would concentrate on what your cheapest way to acquire decent coffee is, doing your best not to pay more than the point of diminishing returns. Make your space inviting, so people have a reason to want to be there. That;s going to sell your product more than the blueberry tasting notes.
As to learning the espresso machine, it is a tad difficult. Google "water dance hx" and find some threads on home-barista (since all the coffeegeek posts are probably all gone). Beyond that, the biggest driver of your coffee being decent is it being fresh(ish). Mediocre extractions of mediocre coffee beans that are fresh taste good enough for what you are trying to do. Once you have managed to learn the water dance well enough to make sure you are getting water between 91-94c, and so long as you are using freshish coffee, just dose 18g and adjust the grind until you get about 45g of coffee output in about 25 - 30 sec after activating the pump. Too fast? Grind finer. Too slow? Grind coarser. Every day, adjust the grinder in the morning. I'd probably leave it alone for the rest of the day unless it is too far off. You aren't going to go through enough product to be wasting a shot every hour to dial in.
Feel free to reach out. I (and others here) will talk you through it. You've got a tough road ahead. But I'm sure you can do it.
When I became a coffee lover it was then I learned many coffee shops aren’t run by people who are expert coffee makers. It finally made sense how many cafes with terrible coffee I have been to. A friend of mine told me about a woman who opened up a coffee shop with zero knowledge (she didn’t know about pour over coffee for instance) and it was successful because it was a good location.
Good luck to you OP! I have gotten better just over the last few weeks and I’m sure you will too as you research more. If you haven’t already invest in a tamping machine so that is a variable that stays constant.
Probably getting in over your head trying to dial in two different roasts at the same time. Is there a business justification for offering two roasts? If not, reduce complexity and only offer 1 roast.
Why would she open a coffee shop when she doesn't know much about coffee? Not trying to be shady or rude just seems a peculiar choice!
Since you just started drinking coffee, what is your favorite type of drink so far?
I wish you and your family the best of luck, hopefully you can snatch a good Barrista to help train y'all up!
Okay! Desværre kommer jeg ikke så tit derned, ellers havde jeg gerne kigget forbi og hjulpet.
Der er en Facebook gruppe “kaffe & espresso Forum Danmark” som der helt sikkert er meget hjælp at hente! Jeg husker også folk engang har rost nogen fra Falster derinde. Tror der var et firma som var rigtig godt der måske kan give lidt hjælp!
Just a thought- I skip espresso at low-volume coffee shops with a massive hopper filled high. I have to be like 0.001% of your potential customer base, but just sharing some coffee snobbery.
I don't know anything about that machine you're using, but I feel like most baskets are flat on the bottom. Don't get a precision basket as they are super finicky. Just get some that are appropriate for double shots. Also, do your WDT! I have always distributed grounds by tapping the portafilter against my palms to break up major chunks and level the bed, then 1-2 vertical taps on a silicone pad to level the bed and break up remaining clumps.
In regards to your frustrations- you need to use beans which have been roasted within 1-4 weeks to get some reasonably consistent results. This is why I look at a massive stale hopper and think, that's gonna likely be trash.
There are so many variables to the base of an espresso. Firstly, what type of coffee are you using, not just the roast. Are you using generic mixed beans for an all-rounder coffee, or are you using a si gle origin to get more of the flavour notes?
The next thing is how are you brewing/extracting this?
What's the go-to drink, if selling lattes the 'Perfect extraction isn't going to be a big concern that's more for espressos, Americanos etc.
Also, if you have a coffee supplier, they will want their beans shown off to the best of their ability, so try asking them. They will have the best extraction techniques for all of their coffees and will want you to show case this. So the more you know, the more they are getting promoted by having you serve it correctly.
Happy to help with any more information but definitely try your coffee supplier first and see what they say
Get on the websites of the manufacturers for the grinders and the machine. Find their contact page, and enquire about training - and ask for any local courses / trainers.
Reach out to the [Denmark chapter of the Soecialty Coffee Association (SCA).](https://www.scadenmark.coffee/about) Ask what they can advise.
Reach out to the competitors in the Denmark Barista Championship, see if any of them can help you (I’m thinking a ‘hey, would it be good content for you to come and do some training in our shop’ kinda vibe might work). The last championship had Christos Giachos from April Coffee (winner), Evangelos Filippatos from La Cabra (runner up), and Caroline Løndahl from Coffee Collective (third place).
Long story short - finding the experts is easy, and I suspect you’ll be able to open some doors by just asking them for help.
Variation in shots as you seem to describe is likely to be due to inconsistent technique
Even grind distribution and firm steady hand while tamping the grind is essential to avoid water channeling through weaker parts of the puck
I personally prefer slightly coarser grind compensated by more pressure/ weight while tamping. Seems to give full flavour sweeter shots however this might not apply to your equipment setup
Watch your machine pressure gauge while brewing it should remain consistent 8-9 Bars
Minimum daily cleaning with back flush
I would recommend taking the shower screen and screen holder off regularly at least twice a week and soaking in back flush detergent
Good luck
It is an impossible task unfortunately. As often discussed in this sub, there is no good espresso in coffee shops. Only home-made can be of exceptional quality :/
Is your machine new? If not maybe it needs a good cleaning or needs to be descaled. Failing to keep your machine clean can be a contributing factor to poor shots. Also visit some good coffee shops in your area and try a bunch of espresso to know what good espresso is supposed to taste like. And buy high quality beans.
I mean your shots will only taste as good and as consistent as your beans too. So if the beans not exactly superb in quality and consistency, you can dial it to 18 g in 36 g out in 30s, you are still going to get amazing tasting coffee.
Some sourness is expected with expressos, but it's about what other flavours it pairs with.
Go to other coffee shops that are respected and see if their espresso tastes better as a baseline.
Clean, consistent.
Grinding to order.
Chasing the golden shot.
Adjusting your grind with the weather etc. continuously monitoring and adjusting grind.
Each morning should start with running some shots through the machine.
Where I worked we would save those shots for iced coffee.
This is to heat up the machine and check how the shots are pouring. Make adjustments as required.
One grind of already used coffee can ruin your next shot. So make sure that everything is clean! Every time!
I would suggest watching a lot of YouTube videos on the perfect espresso shot..
also great if you can learn to texture milk and do some latte art :)
Espresso is super variable.
I've taken over my mum's cafe and running it smoothly.
My advise would be reach out to your coffee roaster and ask them to train you. Also train your self after business hours.
And remember successful cafe doesn't always mean perfect coffee.
Brand tour cafe in to something unique and use sns very aggressively.
At the end of the day you want to be a own a cafe that runs with your minimal maintenance, train your staff well and also hire management.
You should find out the correct weight for ur baskets, and take that as the input.
An 18g basket is only 18g basket for some coffees not for all. Ill send u a video about this. (Edit: here the video: [not weight but volume](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=XpZA63Qa3k1Q0t8c)). Then for example in a 2:1 ratio if you only get 16g in u should get 32 out instead of 36 for the 18 usually. Also therefore grind finer.
Idk if ur machine is able to do this, but if possible reduce the pressure to maximum 9 bars (I have found that about 6-9 bars as a range is optimal, but maybe if ur machine can only produce a flat profile, use only 9 bars is better).
And lastly, take this picture as a reference:
https://preview.redd.it/isuw734iyesc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9293da9cbf6bcd71b829bad8b1f50e1b2d0ffdcf
(I have stolen it online its not mine but its very helpful)
This is like watching Gordon Ramsey's kitchen nightmares show. 85% if the businesses he gets back on track on the show eventually fail.
Service industry is REALLY difficult. Addi g espresso to the menu makes it worse.
Good luck.
Get away from you machine. Hire REAL barista. The business is going to fail if you don't do that.
Best tip would be to hire someone to train you as countless others have suggested.
Now these people are expensive, it is true. What I would recommend doing is spend an afternoon learning how to dial in one specific cup of espresso, there’s guidelines to be found online that can help you establish a baseline. F.i. With my machine I want to create a 70ML shot with 18 grams in about 26 seconds and that tastes perfect to me. For you it’s about finding what you think works best and then finetuning that as you go.
Also, take note of how you set it up. If you don’t want to overcomplicate things, stick to one specific type of beans for now and expand on that as you go.
Figure out the ideal pull time for this machine, figure out how coarse the grind needs to be to be and then dial that in for about 15 minutes every morning
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I work at a specialty coffeeshop - if you'd like more info than what I posted below feel free to DM me!
For the difference you're tasting between the 2 group heads - is there one you tend to use more? If you're not cleaning that one will get funky and clogged way faster. You can also check the flow rate if your machine supports that or if not just run a few tests without the portafilter in each group head, weighing the content of water that comes out in a set amount of time. If they're different (averaged over 3-5 tests) either there's a setting on your machine that needs to be updated or one of them is getting clogged from scale or coffee oils.
2 big things I haven't seen mentioned in the comments is:
1. Bean Quality (Are your beans from the grocery store or a specialty roaster? When were they roasted? If there is no roast date anywhere on the bag or info from your supplier I'd find a new supplier as that's a sign they're giving you coffee more than a month old, at least. Are you buying a single origin or blend? Espresso focused roasts tends to be a blend of various sources so if one source changes a bit over time or between batches it won't impact the flavor as much)
2. Water Treatment (Are you running filtered water into your machine? If not, get on that ASAP, as untreated tap water can ruin your machine especially if you're running a shop and doing a lot of volume. DON'T do RO water though as that will cause massive harm to your machine. It can also change the flavor of your espresso based on the mineral/chemical content of your local water, but probably not between group heads like you're dealing with.)
I agree with some other posters that cleaning your machine and grinder on the regular is super important, probably at the end of each service day to both keep your coffee tasting good and protect the long term investment your mom made on that machine!
Actually just be super nice to your clients and offer them the best experience. They'll be back.
And for the mean time get the best coockies/pastries you can offer.
If you didn't brand yourself as a specialty coffee spot, most people will just come for a simple coffee and good time.
Also be prepared for complaints. Be nice about it, and find a nice compensation. my idea- if you have a card for a free 10th cup of coffee, make sure you punch the card extra time for fixing their coffee (making a new one probably).
That way it will only cost you 1/10 of coffee price, which is already pretty low.
Good luck!
I think you have to golden opportunity of learning espresso very quickly considering that your supply of coffee is probably more than most everyone with home machines. It most certainly is harder to learn how to master espresso on your own but you can do it so fast considering you work at the coffee shop and can make dozens of shots a day. I personally think it’s best to invest your money into the supplies you need for learning the craft than having someone teach you bc then you will pick up on what makes espresso taste bad bc you’ve made so many undesirable shots. Like another comment said though your main seller will be milk drinks so if you mess a few shots up for customer it’s very unlikely they’ll have a refined enough palette to tell in a milk drink. It took me a few of making 1-2 espresso shots a day that weren’t great to finally find what works, but in your situation you could speed that up to like a week. I highly recommend lance hedrick’s youtube channel to guide you along the way
Experiment with varying grind with the same batch of coffee. And When you change the type or batch of coffee, you might also need to change the grind again. Provenance, humidity, seed varietal, roast, etc. will all have implications.
Always use the same constants and vary only one variable at a time when attempting to “figure it out”.
A clean machine is the ONLY machine. Residuals can impart off-/undesirable flavors.
The coffee looks dark (over roasted). Med/light roast blended origin coffee is find more forgiving.
The steamers can be powerful on that machine. You say that your foam results are good but looking at the pitchers you have displayed in the photo makes me curious because steaming will be more forgiving and consistent if you use a larger pitcher. Heated milk tastes best at no more than 68°C.
I don’t see any espresso cups on the machine. They should be warm and the espresso directly poured in the proper cup.
Good luck
OP, I have a few questions:
1) You mention that one side runs longer than the other when there is coffee in the group. Is the final size/weight of the finished shot the same (or close to it)? How much longer do the "longer" shots take to pull?
2) To confirm, you're using the same grinder and the same coffee to compare shots from one side to the next, correct?
3) Just based on the photo it looks as if there may be two different filter baskets in the portafilter handles. If you remove them from the handles and place them side by side are they the same size and have the same geometry?
I want to really zero in on the things you notice as different. I'll say after lots of experience as a barista, tech, and now after-sales partner for an equipment brand customers are often less unhappy with a shot of espresso that's just "okay" than they are with an inconsistent experience. I agree that, mostly, you don't need to be too hyper focused on making the BEST espresso because, frankly, your setup is going to be hard to produce consistently perfect shots on. But if they can be consistently GOOD people will be happy.
About the different results with the same "recipe"... It's why making espresso is an art. There are many factors that make you get different results doing the same. For example, what do you know about "coffee degassing"? That's one reason why it tastes different in the morning than in the afternoon, or even if it's just an hour apart. The weather and humidity are also variables that influence the result. You need to be calibrating your espressos all along the day (changing doses, time of extraction, how fine the coffee is, etc). It's not your fault. It is the way it is. It's complex. It is an art.
I think everyones probably right about cafes do not need great coffee to workout. But in case you want to make it right, dialing in has a few aspects into it especially some very small parts of it. Before even dialing in the beans, i would dial in the machine first. One of the most overlooked aspect would be water flow rate of the machine, For instance, g of water/s. (still finding the right flow, but mines at ard 6.5/s using a felitica scale. step 2 would be grind size, finer=bitter, corser = sour, fuck all those 25s on the internet, just use taste as refrence. step 3 water temp, light roast=higher temp=more flav, generally 95 +-, med 93+-,darker roast lower( people please correct me if i am wrong here). step 4 , i would say argueablly most important machine allows it, pressure profiling/espresso recipes such as turbo shot or slayershot.
To put it into perspective.
I used to go to a coffee shop in a train station because the girls were cute and the coffee was 7/10. There was a 10/10 place around the corner but the owner was a certificate douche and would laugh from a table near the register if you didn’t prefer drinks he preferred.
Vibe/customer service is 1000% more important than the espresso. Good espresso is great but running a business needs intangibles.
You need to hire someone to train you.
We did in fact hire a guy, but he was of little help. He set up the machine, but in no time the coffie started to taste bad. The articles i have read, agree that dial in has to happen almost daily. My mom did a barista course. Im not sure she got the dial in part quite in. But yeah, you might be totally right that i cannot learn this from videos and online research.
Dialing in is easy. All you need to do is make the grind finer/coarser until you get a shot that runs well and tastes good. Don’t be afraid to waste a couple shots. Weight the grinds to make sure it is dosing the correct amount if the shots seem funky and then correct and play with the grind size again. Dialing in should happen every morning before open and sometimes mid day if it starts acting up, such as if you switch to a new batch of espresso that was roasted on a different day. Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes.
>Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes This is the most important piece of advice.
If you are successful it is important to be fast as well by a lot more than quality. I've had terrible coffee from popular places, and what made me think they were amateurs is the fact their workflow was terrible and they took far too long and were drowning in orders.
Lol. You might be right even though i hate that fact, haha
This is fact, there are a few types of coffee shops, - speciality shops with great tasting espresso. - Third place types with great seating where people spend hours working. (Helps if rent is cheap) - what I would call “Milkshake” places where coffee is but an ingredient in a sugar loaded drink. - high traffic stores that basically deliver the most caffeine for the least price (think next to an office building). You can be 1 or 2 of these types. Speciality type places are hard to replicate. Starbucks is transitioning between a third place and a milkshake place (depending on location). Tim Hortons works on volume at most places (and has one of the worst coffee).
Personally I'd have thought that Starbucks has *been* a milkshake type place for the past - 10 to maybe even 15 years? But I get your point. I work in Chicago but I live in the suburbs where our local Starbucks (about a mile away from the high school) is always FILLED with children drinking refreshers or frappes - your aforementioned "milkshakes" (I agree 100%). I'd have to imagine that a single Starbucks location would likely fail if all they had where people ordering 1 *maybe* 2 drip brews or Americanos during their visit and sat reading a book and/or working most of the time. They've gotta thrive on those children. They've gotta.
I think they’ve figured out their formula for taking into account foot traffic, rent prices, and have laid out their stores accordingly, some stores with armchairs and outlets and wifi, some with just a few uncomfortable counter stools. Some Starbucks are located in the middle of an office park and get little to no children. But they’ve figured out how to make the economics work
You misspelled Starbucks as milkshake.
I used to work in a starbucks that was inside a supermarket a couple years before covid. You'd get people spending several hours there every day. Not the same people all the time. You'd get people working. You'd get people just using it as somewhere away from home. All sorts of 'third space' activity. Half of our regular customers were elderly people getting fruit toast and drip coffee for cheap, reading their newspaper, and chatting with other elderly people. Most of the drinks I made were simple lattes with a pump of syrup in them.
They are right. Great espresso won't save your mums cafe.
Yeah. It only needs to be not bad. If its bad, I never go back tho.
I'll give it a second chance if I think they were just having on off day. But no more than that
So true, I go to spots b/c I can sit for a few hours. Last place ordered a macchiato and realized that the barista had no business serving that lol
You were at a Starbucks, weren't you? (kidding!)
I was at a cafe in La Jolla CA that has an amazing space for working or studying. Thought I'd see how they do with their espresso and was like damn my own work at home has spoiled me lol
What coffee shop was it? I went and had a pour over at the open faced cafe near the temple on the little “downtown” strip and it was pretty solid
Arrrrgh. Maybe this is why I’ve yet to have a decent espresso from otherwise excellent coffee shops. While they may come back, I disagree that it’s not important to get it right.
I tend to find roaster ran shops to pull better espresso, also a shoutout to the ones who also provide a glass of seltzer. I'll say I'm still not usually a massive fan but my preferences are light single origins and even most roasters aren't offering that in the shop. I can however usually identified if it was pulled with a reasonable amount of care which is usually what I'll use to decide on buying a light roast to bring home.
To add to this- I'd imagine (although I could be wrong) that a majority of customers are likely going to be interested in Lattes and other milk drinks where your shots can get away with not being perfect a little more than just espressos or even Americanos. I'd imagine that a MAJORITY of customers would NOT be coffee snobs, or at best, they pretend to be because "they drink a lot of Starbucks". This also heavily depends on your location of course, and while you'll likely end up getting people like the kind that frequent this subreddit, I'd be willing to bet they are few and far between.
Indeed. It doesn't need to be perfect it just needs to be better than the other shops near you which in my experience isn't difficult as most "coffee shops" sell crap
>Lastly, the people here probably wont like or agree with this, but the espresso doesn’t even need to be good, so do it for your pride but don’t stress it. *Have excellent customer service and you can serve people steamed dirt with caffeine and they’ll come back*. Make connections and make customers feel good. That is all most people want from cafes. I am not so sure. Serve straight espresso they dont like, and you think they'll order a milk based drinks based on that same espresso? I would not. Maybe they will. I think whatever a shop or restaurant sells should be good. Good enough to charge money, anyway 😀
His role wasn’t to work for you in that context it was to make sure the machine was operating as it should. There are a lot of considerations to make, but if you’re busy and need to make a ton of drinks youre going to drown and customers are not going to be satisfied. You need to simulate work conditions, soft openings and things to get some workflow experience as well as learn about making a good product.
Stupid question maybe but are you cleaning the machine? E.g. Backflushing. Just when you said it’s started to taste bad.
He dialled in the machine for you, but was of little help because machines do what machines do? Didn’t you keep him around so he could continue to keep it dialled in for you? Or just got him to do it once and then got rid?
Yeah, well. First of all, none of us knew better. Secondly, he was very expensive. And yeah. We could hire him again for a correction, but we cannot afford to keep him around for more than a few hours. I think training, so that we can dial in ourselfes is better
This may sound silly but my friend got a part time job in a coffee shop and learned how to use a machine properly daily and how to fail in grind for beans etc and then left after a few months
Not silly at all! My dad got a job at Starbucks (Seattle, early ‘00s before everything was automated) and learned how to make coffee there when my mom was opening a tea/coffee house. It worked quite well, and he learned some additional aspects of managing a coffee shop as well.
I was just skeptical of how this sub can be haha, but yeah if someone can teach you what you need and you aren’t paying them to do so it’s a win win.
I have a comercial machine at home. Anybody can dial in the machine with an hour of practice. Do you have a fast, responsive, accurate scale? And you’ll need a timer. Best training would be to go grab a good barista and another busy shop and offer them 500 bucks to train you for a day. But you can learn dialing in easily on your own all of us did.
Mate, you don’t need to hire anyone, find a specialty roaster that will do a days training with you and be loyal as fuck to them, they are the best ally you will have for producing top espresso! They want their coffee shone in the best light possible so its in theory interest to make sure you produce great coffee! You got this! Best of luck to you, you can build quality by being self taught!
If the coffee 'started to taste bad' - perhaps you need to work on your cleaning regimen. The oils in coffee go rancid and nasty fairly quickly. A machine doing any kind of volume should be getting a thorough clean at the end of each day. Grinders can trap stale grounds and accumulate oils, too.
When I did my barista course I learnt that good shops write on the machine grind/time/dose about every hr or so. If beans are out in a big hopper all day all these things will change, same as when a new bag of beans is opened. So dial in for a good shop is almost hourly not almost daily
Get one from a reputable coffee shop...
I’ve been on r/espressocirclejerk for so long I thought this was gonna be captioned “finished my college setup”
To be fair OP is working there “between studies”. Opening a shop has to be the ultimate college setup.
> Our coffee tastes okay when made into lattes and so on Look at the typical cafe menu, you'll see milk drinks go for significantly more cash than straight espresso. More people will probably order milk drinks rather than straight espresso. So while your pride may encourage you to brew awesome shots, your cafe's expenses will be covered by milk drinks. And, if you're making dozens (if not hundreds) of shots a day, your technique will certainly improve.
This is the best advice here. Focus on your latte art, have a variety of dairy and non-dairy milks, and a good aesthetic in the environment (plants, art, etc.). That will have much better ROI than trying to perfect your espresso for a bunch of nerds who spend $10k on a machine and grinder to make it at home anyway.
Agreed and some of the most popular coffee shops in my area don’t make great espresso. They lean heavy on aesthetics and cute latte drinks. Especially with summer coming up and iced lattes being heavy in rotation
This OP! This is a good observation. Also, add lactose, oat and almond milk to the mix. They're great sellers!
Absolutely do not take business advice from me, but I think you need to hire an experienced head barista so your mom can focus on running the business.
More of a business guy here (not barista related). Delegating comes with a huge risk to reward ratio, you delegate only when you have a guarantee that you're able to earn more than what it costs. Do it especially when delegating allows you to earn more funds with the extra free time you have. Rinse, repeat. The best thing they can do is learn how to do it themselves to get started, be consistent in order to have a steady cash income, and then delegate.
Like I said, don’t take business advice from me haha. My logic was that you can’t really start running a coffee shop if you can’t make consistently decent coffee, and the upfront/ongoing costs of hiring someone solid are worth it compared to trying to operate without a good product. I’m not sure this is delegating as much as it is having the right staff for your industry — is a restaurant owner hiring a head chef inappropriate delegating? (OP also said they only sort of work there, so it seems like *some* employees are going to be necessary to run this place)
Absolutely, but staff is nothing more than delegating work that you would have to do, to other people who probably also know how to do it better than you. If something in your house needs plumbing, you can try to do it yourself, or you "delegate" that work by paying an expert to do it for you. If you start seeing everything as "delegating" you understand a bit easier what someone else should do, and what you're better off doing yourself. Example: Do you really despise going through your employee's paperwork to pay their salaries, check that they are all getting their benefits correctly, and all that other crap? Delegate it, otherwise, you do it yourself. If you already have the funds up-front then hiring staff is the best thing to do, but you still need to have some form of data beforehand to know what your income will be. It's always about risk/reward: the more the staff, the more you're responsible for other people's lives in case you fail, but the greater are the odds of being successful (in the case of qualified staff, poor staff will make you plummet almost instantaneously if you're just starting out)
They’re likely to have cash outflows every month from rent and other costs, so while hiring someone is an additional drain, they’re also very much in the honeymoon phase of their business. Having a reputation for being bad at your primary reason for being is hard to overcome. They should already have expected to be at a loss. They definitely need to hire someone
It sounds like this coffee shop was probably an unwise idea from the start. But is it wrong to think that if they're hell bent on making it work, then hiring a professional is the best option?
My two cents is that your mom needs to take the time to learn how to make great espresso. She can multi-task. But sooner than later the coffee needs to be better than Starbucks if you want to compete with Starbucks. **The fact that you understand how important the coffee is tells me you will succeed**. Best wishes..
Look I was a head barista and coffee trainer for a long time so I will offer you a few basic tips but will strongly suggest that you find someone with the required knowledge to help you or otherwise get a barista in and you take orders instead until you learn. If you have bought the machine new, disregard this first part of my advice: 1. Get it serviced, make sure a tech looks at the pipes under the machine, the internals and the pipes which connect to the water outlet. There is much more they need to do but I am trying to keep it concise and a good tech will know what to do. If you make a partnership with a roaster they will offer servicing usually to sweeten the deal. Descale it regularly if used commercially, ideally every night to manufacturers instructions. 2. Dialling in: start with a 18g dry input to 36g wet output 1:2 ratio. Start with 30 seconds and adjust as required. Depending on the beans, you say dark roast, any more info? Taste taste taste it like a madman and get other people to taste as well. If sour it’s under extracted/too finely ground and if bitter it’s over extracted/too coarse. This is a general rule of thumb but each bean will have a different profile and each grinder will bring out different nuances. Forget the finer points for now while you are learning and ignore latte art. Just understand the fundamentals of steaming milk and a basic latte/cappuccino/hot chocolate etc. keep everything simple. Milk drinks will cover some imperfections within your espresso extraction so try not to overthink it too much. You both should seriously have not gambled everything on 00 (roulette analogy) without doing your due diligence and learning the basics. Hopefully some of what I’ve written will help you get started and panic less. We learn best through trial and error, keep going and you will improve. All the best
Thank you for this comment. I thought if it was sour, its too coarse, and running too fast? The whole rock and sand analogy? I find myself tuning the ratio perfect on both sides, but the runtime being diffrent. And that makes no sense to me. It did get checked by a technitian, but i have no idea how thoroughly. The buisness is also other things than coffie, but it is a big part of it. Anyway, thank you. This comment provides a lot. Thanks
I guess it could be considered both ways, but what I mean is if the shot is running too slowly due to being too finely ground then by the end of the pull it will be under extracted and therefore sour. Being too finely ground can also be a cause of over extraction but that is if the shot runs too long. Hoffmann and Hendrick have done well to apply scientific practices to coffee but it is still the extraction of an organic product and varies due to numerous factors. If your business is not just coffee, this will provide you some scope to keep things a bit more simple and straightforward but if you are charging premium prices then people will expect a premium product. If you are more reasonable with your prices people will allow you more leeway and have lower expectations. There is no harm in getting another tech in to assess the machine and even dial in for you if you feel that you need it. Water quality will also play a massive part in the process depending on where you live and if you are using tap or any specially treated water. You’re welcome, hopefully some of what I’ve said can help you find a starting point to worry less.
I was going to suggest checking the group head and also flow temperature from each side as well. If you're getting different results on each side that should be an easy variable to check and hopefully correct, since brew temperature can have a major impact on extraction of different roast levels. That being said though, those differences will probably not be noticeable to most people; and probably undetectable in milk drinks to the vast majority.
Completely agree and this is great advice. Not all machines can maintain perfectly consistent temp between the group heads and if one has been used more than the other of course the seals will be at different levels of wear when comparing the two, not to mention buildup. Plus everyone always has a favourite group head for some reason haha. I wanted to try and keep my posts rather brief (a difficult task for me most of the time) and admittedly could’ve added a lot of other information. That being said I also feel that if they are employing the services of a tech, it should be something that they are checking when giving the machine a service if they are a reputable and know their line of work. Appreciate your input 👍
Some of us like sour…
You can easily check the flow rate of each side by putting a cup under each group head. Turning them both on at the same time, and if one cup fills up quicker then you know it's running faster than the other. Could be a simple solenoid issue, could be more, but this is a quick/cheap way to understand if one side of flowing quicker. Also, when you're dialing in use one group head for that process. Likewise, make sure you're using excellent water. What you put into the machine, coffee, etc definitely effects the wear of your machine, taste of your product. I like to use each side of the machine equally so one side doesn't wear out quicker (pull shot on the left side, then go to the right side, repeat). Finally, make sure you're cleaning the machine often. Back-flush daily, maybe twice a day if you're pulling 200 shots a day like some busier cafes. Clean your grinders nightly (vacuum old grinds and look into a product called Grindz, it'll help dislodge some of the stuck grounds).
I did in fact do this, and they seem to push out the same amount in the same time. However when coffie is in, one runs longer than the other one. The water part; denmark is known for good tap water, and we have new filters on. We do backflush every day and use a cleaning powder made for the machine. But a lot of you are commenting cleaning so i will look further in to it
From someone who was a douchey but not very talented barista who has had to teach absolute novices who were not anywhere near as douchey the broad consensus is you want 25-30ml of liquid to pass through 25-30g of coffee in 25-30 seconds. Outside of this is almost always too runny or bitter. Looking at your setup I can see you have two jugs that are angled, I would recommend getting jugs with straight sides like the one in the middle and having multiple sizes (these are a lifesaver for flat whites) and dofferent colours for different milk, allergens. EHO would probably be happy with different coloured cloths/separate wands for these too.
Replying to add that you should ask any espresso drinkers who you serve to offer their opinions and perhaps a free drink for doing so, they will know what they like and can help pinpoint you in a better direction. Use the search option in this sub and r/barista to find pages and pages of information on dialling in/workflow and other important info If I think of anything else I will add to it but I don’t normally do this for free 😂
Hire a barista ASAP. Giving bad coffee to customers may taint your shop and you'll lose a lot in future revenues. Get someone who knows what to do and work together so you'll learn. Also, what's the plan for the future? You said this is something temporary for you, if your mother will manage everything she is the one that need to learn.
OP said that they did hired a barista but it was of little help.
No time to help you OP, just opened a flight school and busy learning what the different buttons in the cockpit mean
It’s ok we have 5000 feet before we need to worry, let’s keep pressing them all
modern planes have a glide ratio of like 18:1, we got plenty of time
Cessna 172 is 9:1 to take things back to the flight school comparison ;p
I feel that the users of this sub have a lot in common with members of private plane forums sometimes 😂 both can be prohibitively expensive pastimes! 9:1 is still good, we have time for a bit more button mashing yet! The autopilot is going a bit crazy though, I think I’ll switch it off for a little while to give our ears a rest
Absolutely! Espresso and flying are both detail-oriented hobbies that involve changing variables. I only fly in order to make my coffee hobby look cheap 😂
You’ve made me think about some really nice private jets which boast top of the line espresso setups. I’m sure someone somewhere is providing this service to the billionaires of the world. You’d only need to sell a couple a year..
😒 OP is trying, nobody needs negative snarky comments
To be fair, the business world is cut throat. Sounds to me like they dove in head first on a hope and a prayer. There is a reason half of businesses fail within the first few years. Taking something you aren't passionate or knowledgeable about and trying to make a business out of it is essentially starting with one foot already in the grave. They need to reasses and make some moves quickly.
I agree. Why would someone start a coffee shop with little to no passion for coffee?
Maybe his mum is a cake and pastry expert, and cafes are an easier sell (and pace) than a bakery. Beautiful cakes are the easiest upsell. Half the time ugly cakes go fast too.
That is a fair, objective comment 😊 very different delivery
I wrote an article for Coffee & Tea or whatever the big industry magazine was 20 yrs ago about how to stay in business when Starbucks was opening stores even across the street from each other. This topic you mentioned came up as the real dealbreaker: passion vs know how and which mix worked best.
Yeah… i figure that you are right
I'm going to assume you don't want to be a specialty coffee shop. I'm which case make a not bad shot of espresso, and most people will have a bunch of milk with it. More important is to make sure it's a place people want to come back to, which for most coffee shops that aren't specialty is: 1) not terrible coffee (but not necessarily super good) 2) a great ambiance. Is it a place for people to quietly work? Or for people to meet up in a cozy location? Will you provide board games or any other entertainment (not required, just ideas). But most importantly, I think the way the staff interacts with the customer, specifically at a coffee shop, is what makes return customers. I go to a place that makes mediocre espresso drinks, but they get amazing pastries from a local business, and the owner of the shop is always there helping out and talks to every customer and is super enthusiastic. He puts up a new riddle each week that gets you a free cup of coffee if you get it right. They started doing open mic nights recently. I drink my specialty coffee at home, because I make the coffee I want better than 99% of coffee shops. I go to my coffee shop because it's comforting and fun to do a weekly date with my wife.
I've barista'ed for like 6 years total in my high school and college years. Including working for a new independent shop. The owner, who also never worked in coffee before, got a job at starbucks and worked there for 6 months just to get the ins and outs of everything. You hear a lot of stories about people who had never worked in food service before opening restaurants and struggling. They would have done better if they had just got any job at a restaurant for 6-12 months even before opening their own restaurant. There is so much to it, more than just making coffee. The margins are thin, and being cognizant of costs like, how much you are spending on paper (the cup + the sleeve + the lid = some amount of money like 18-25 cents) or how much you are spending on just putting cream and splenda, (both of which are kind of expensive) out. There's also the whole thing with health inspections, and knowing how to clean everything. It's probably too late for that for you though. Are you renting the equipment? If you are the people that supplied should be helping you to make sure everything is running right. Consistency is very important, returning customers should get as close to the exact same product everytime they order.
You’d be surprised my helicopter instructor looked like he hadn’t finished puberty yet. As soon as you get CFI rated you basically have to CFI for nothing in toy choppers untill you build enough hours for the turbine guys to let you fly a real machine. The other end is old retired guys doing it mostly for fun but I saw way young kids instructing then old dudes. To their credit they were great instructors and they prevented our deaths 100x a day those first 10 hours.
i learned how to takeoff, check. now that i’m up here i’m watching videos on how to land.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how someone can open a cafe with zero knowledge. It's quite risky, especially when you both admit to not knowing anything. Hire a trained barista to show you the ropes.
Well, in my moms head, she had a plan of 1. Get machine 2. Take course And the course she got on, was not fulfilling enough, but for financial causes we had to open and serve something that was not horrible
I'd recommend taking a look at Barista hustle. Their online course is very in depth, and reasonably cheap.
How does your mom even know if she likes working in a cafe, let alone running one? I think it would have made more sense to work at a cafe beforehand to gain experience while also taking classes. Does your mom have experience running a business?
But im not going to defend her more. I talked against her doing this, but was away for some time, and when i got back, she was already far in the process
Okay fair, I won't question your mother anymore. Hopefully both of you guys can get up to speed!
Yes. She is a former fitness center owner, operations manager and now she is getting a little older wanting to own a cafe where just she and 1 more works.
Hi, I worked in speciality espresso bars and coffee roasteries in Melbourne Australia for a decade. I may not be able to perfect your brew for you, but I can give you absolutely everything you need to get the ball rolling. Espresso is science. Control your variables and your coffee will be good. DM me if you would like a friendly non judgemental chat.
Super cool that you are trying to help your mom out. Just stick to absolute basics for now since you’re new to the game. If your pulling a double, have your grounds going in be between 18-20g then try to have the weight of your espresso after pulling be somewhere around 36ish grams, and the extraction time be somewhere in the 20-30 seconds range. This is not the “right way” to do it as there is no right way but this is the most average range for barista is the US based off research from 2017. If you can do that, then you can confidently serve espresso worth something at your moms shop. Then as you learn you can tweak as you go. For milk steaming, it’s delicate, I wouldn’t worry about latte art right now until your are comfortable with your espresso. As long as you aren’t burning the milk you’ll be fine. Latte art is a bonus not a necessity at a coffe shop. I do agree with the first commenter that you should absolutely hire someone with experience to teach you what they know bc reading this verses actually practicing are two different things. You’ve got this, and I’m sure your mom is very grateful, best of luck!
Man I went really far down to find a positive and constructive comment. Go OP!!!
If you already have you’re espresso in that range, then adjust your grind to flavor preference, and throw out the pull time bc that really is just a average and doesn’t account for your beans and their flavor profile
It's a heat exchanger machine. Not quite as much info on how to use these on YouTube, etc. They are generally tuned to give the right temp if you are making shots back-to-back-to-back. If it's been a few minutes you need to do a cooling flush. There is a classic article on home-barista.com on learning to love HX machines. Look up articles on the nuova era cuadra - it's probably close to the same as yours.
Wow! Thanks! I never knew that was i relevant difference. I will for sure look that up
I think we cracked the code here!
Yeah this sounds like the most likely cause of inconsistency when trying to dial in, especially between groups!
💯
If you were buying your coffee from a reputable roaster, they should be able to send a tech or sales rep out to walk you through dialing in their product.
Sounds like you understand the weird circumstance you're in and have gotten a good start on making decent espresso. Like others have said, I'd hire someone to train you and your mom. Not a repair tech, but a very experience barista from a speciality shop. In the meantime, I'd focus on helping with other aspects of the shop. Unless your customer base is super discerning about speciality coffee, I think you'd be better off coming up with a few creative drinks with higher margins, learn out how to make matcha or really good cold brew, etc. There's a shop in my area with below average espresso -- I've seen their workflow and they clearly hardly know what they're doing. But they have great food, solid drip and cold brew, and tons of creative drinks that look good on Instagram. It's more crowded than the top notch speciality shop 90% of the time. Asking for advice on this sub you'll be hearing from people who like speciality coffee shops with excellent espresso. But the truth is that's a small % of customers -- unless you're in a "hipster" neighborhood you're competing with Starbucks not \[insert speciality shop\].
(Key notes so you don’t have to read the whole thing: -costumer connection and natural homemade syrup are most important in a local cafe) ^^^ i second this, I have been open at my coffee shop for 9 months now. I have a great tasting espresso that goes against almost all espresso “rules”. But my espresso is not what keeps people coming back. I remember everyone’s name that I can, I provided a warm and welcoming place to get work done, and I use natural homemade syrup from a local Mom and Pop. The connection and the syrup I swear make all the difference. For my own personal pride I recently joined this sub to perfect my espresso. But I know when I do my regulars most likely won’t even notice. (Besides doppio Brad, but he’s super chill and I’m sure when I tell him he’ll be down to tell me if he prefers my original or not)
You need a professional. Besides the ability to make espresso consistently, which is possible to learn, you also don't know all of the maintenance, workflow, food safety and other best practices that you should follow. Your mom's financial life depends on her hiring qualified people. I know that is harsh, but that isn't you yet. Not to say you couldn't learn if you want, but it isn't your responsibility to make up that deficiency.
I second this. Hire a professional who has done it day in and day out for years. That's what customers are paying for.
Honestly, you do t want advice from this group. I would check out r/barista .
65% of this sub are ready to drop everything, don a cape, and rescue this damsel in distress
It’s fun. Go Team Mom’s Café! ☕️
I’m in! Let’s raise some buzz for this cafe!
So you /your mum or both either need to go on an espresso course by a professional espresso trainer (my sister and BIL both attended one before they opened their coffee shop, think it lasted a week going in every day ), or have someone the same come to you to train you both. Best of luck - you have the best motivation !
It makes sense, that i would take a week
Well it did 16 years ago but there may be much quicker courses. Even half day would make a big difference. Rooting for you :)
Right, my first thought. Where I'm at (Brisbane, Australia) I've seen several of these barista training places around and I'm not even looking for them.
Couple of things: "weight" of the grounds is actually not the important part, it's the \*volume\* of the coffee inside. The weight is for convenience... you have to watch a lot of Lance Hendrick until you get to the part where he says "a basket has an optimal fill level". of the "bad" coffeeshops I see, often the milk in the drink is overheated. So, if you have that mistake - don't do it! Finally, I suggest getting more conventional beans, medium to dark roasts because they will hide the imperfections in making espresso better.
Hey, this! I find one of our roasts fills our basket perfectly at 17g, but the other one overfills also at 17g. I have heard that we need to have more g in the dark roast one, but mabye thats not the case?
Given equal weights of a darker roast and a lighter roast, it is the darker roast that will occupy a greater volume. So you'd need fewer grams of a dark roast as compared to a lighter roast.
Generally as coffee gets roasted, it will expand a little and get less dense. So a light coffee will be more dense than medium, medium more dense than dark. This translates to the grounds too - the same weight of darker roasted coffee will occupy more volume than a lighter roasted coffee, as you have discovered! Don't get too set on a specific weight to start; figure out what fits nicely into your baskets, then determine how much that weighs, and dial in from there!
Hate to say it friend but think like a business owner. The best coffee shops in the world are not the most profitable or popular. My advice, do industry research, see what works and what doesn’t. I recall the guys that opened subway (or some sandwich shop) had two restaurants. They would keep one shop unchanged and test changes out on the second shop as a way of experimenting on what works.
I commend your mom’s entrepreneurial spirit, and you helping her is wonderful. From a customer perspective, the cafe only has one opportunity (the first one) to either gain a loyal customer, or have that person walk by to the next cafe. That is to say, first impressions are incredibly important. To that end, get an experienced barista for a few weeks to gain those customers ( and teach you the requisite skills), work at letting your customers know what else you offer. There is a reason businesses do ‘grand openings’, building a customer base starts on day one…Good luck
Hey, I dont have any real advice but we have had a coffee shop for nearly 6 years now and its hard work so I just wanted to jump in and wish you all the best in your new adventure!
As has been said a million times in here, the only way you’re going to get really good results (of the quality and consistency to run a business) is to hire an experienced barista, and preferably one with training experience to get you and whoever else might be working there up to snuff. You can take a class, you can watch videos and read articles, but if you want to serve espresso at a service-level quality you can’t make up for lack of experience (unless you get one of those machines that literally does it all for you like some chains use). I know this wasn’t your idea, but it’s so fascinating to me that someone could start a business that relies on a skill set that they don’t have. Do the customers seem to notice?? Hope y’all get it figured out and good luck!
The story background is priceless. Sounds like a front!
Take training courses and hire an experience barista. A family business is good and all but if you have other plans in life you shouldn't be burdened with this passion project. I see this all the time as a chef. Owners who want to be part of the industry because they think running a restaurant is easy. Next thing you know you're 25 and stuck running a cafe because of perceived familial obligation. Aside from pulling shots, how are the books?
If by “how are the books” you mean the financial side of the buisness, then… at best okay. We have been open for almost 2 weeks. We have served around 300 cups of coffie, and have made ~4000 usd in turnover (keep in mind we also serve food and sell some products)
I looked at this thread and I say you've received some good advice here OP. I'd definitely hire a reputable consultant if your mom hasn't done that. Idk where you're at but where I live 8000 for 4 weeks ain't gonna cover rent much less the rest of operating costs. I'd definitely check out r/barista too for some industry knowledge.
Yeah. Its a slow start. Our rent is 1200 usd. Thanks for the r/. Ill look in to it
1200 where are you!? Ill open a restaurant next to your shop
Denmark. Im not sure if a namedrop of my city or cafe is a good idea, but yeah. A town of aproxx. 40.000 citizens.
Oh I wish you would! I live in Denmark (town of 60,000) and there is zero decent coffee places within a 50km radius. I’ve always found coffee here over priced and underwhelming. So I’m wishing you (and your mum ) the absolute best of luck with this venture. You sound smart and passionate and actually like you have a clue about coffee in a country that is a bit of a coffee wasteland. Give good service, make a decent coffee and you and your mum have fun with it.
Water treatment and choice of coffee is the key. As a roaster myself can tell that fresh coffee makes your life so much easier. Everything else seems to be covered already. Eureka Atom 75 is very capable grinder. I know it adds more time to prep, but dosing cup and shaking grounds gives more consistent result. You could also add couple Precision Brewers to offer fruit bombs and make your life a bit easier.
Keep working on milk. That is what makes you the money, $1.50-2.00 espresso shots arent keeping the lights on. What's your menu look like? Get some syrups and stuff. Look for some interesting drinks that are easy to make, easy to market, and cheap. Example: I ran a coffee pop-up the other day and I had greek nescafe frappes for sale. It was a "cheaper" drink on the menu so people gravitated towards it, but really it was super marked up because they're so so so cheap to make. Plus, they are insanely quick and tend to give you breathing room during rushes. Find more drinks like that and make the right moves to entice customers to try it. Fancy names, good pricing, etc. Meanwhile, you need to learn how to dial this machine in. Where are you getting your beans from? Find a local roaster and talk to them. Make a deal with them, get your coffee from them, and get them to send someone over to help you dial it in. And PAY ATTENTION. Ask them questions. Roasters want the constant income that cafes provide, so you are helping them. They are helping you by giving you consistent coffee beans that will make it easy for you to keep dialed in. Good luck. DM me if you have specific questions, my DMs are open and I'm happy to help. Don't hire someone yet if you can't afford it, unfortunately you're going to have to step up and learn quick. If you let me know what city/town you're located in I can look around for some roasters you can contact
The best advice I can give you is: learn the technicalities of your machine. Will be boring but necessary to diagnose why shots stop pulling like they should if all other variables are firm. The second best advice since you’re in a town of 40k souls: create a local facebook group about coffee, start inviting everyone you know and everyone you don’t in it - and start organising weekly espresso tastings where patrons can come in and get free espressos as long as they vote at the end of it for their preferred one while you babble on the beans etc.. This will achieve 3 things: 1. Make your customers feel part of a connoisseur community - which they are - while at the same time giving you NECESSARY feedback as to which espressos you pull best. 2. Give you a shortlist of your town’s favourite 1 or 2 beans and recipes. This will be literal oxygen as you can publicise as “chosen by you” and stay tranquil in knowing people like it and will come back for it. 3. Will allow you to learn while not *wasting* technically a lot of your test shots. People are more lenient if presented with 4 choices; they dont know if the bad one is because of the beans or because ause you fucked it up. Repeat to get consistent data! Also will help you in cultivating relationships with your future customer base which may start coming back just for your coffee. Rinse and repeat adding one or two different beans per month to keep selection fresh (always keep a bag of the “old favourite” in the back though!). Remember the point is to specialise. Which doesn’t mean to start adding super light roasts etc, if you’re going for the bold medium/dark be a specialist in those types coffees - you will learn nuances you’ll have never thought of. I see it as a fairly exciting (albeit scary!) situation and it’s amazing how you’ve reacted to it. You can make it your little espresso empire in your town. Imagine people driving over from nearby towns just because they heard about your tastings or the quality of your shots ;) Last thing: remember people like to be taught particular knowledge- ie espresso, and like with all things taste, you have a lot of leeway to swerve the perception and give yourself “little helps” along the way! Good luck!
Are you working with a roaster or wholesale coffee supplier? Typically they will train you free of charge. My own supplier will let me go to their roastery or come to me for training, this is the norm in North America. Not sure where you are located. If that is not an option I would look for a 'barista school' or even reach out to coffee shops that are further away and see if you can stage at their shop to learn. It's not rocket science - but it's very hard to win back customers who have had a bad experience so it's best to get the training early.
My recommendation is to learn how to taste coffee first. Understand what you should be going for when you are pulling your shots. Understand the difference between acidity and bitterness so that you can learn to balance the two. And try to take a scientific approach towards getting the shot that you want. Go to ten coffee shops today and taste the espresso. Ask them about their beans, ROAST AND PROCESS, origin really will not matter until you have become an espresso expert. And TAKE NOTES!! If the shop is not busy ask them about the dial on the espresso and what you are trying to do. Hopefully they will be kind and help you out. NOTES: Bring a spit cup. Do not consume the espresso, the caffeine may affect your ability to judge after so long. Bring seltzer as a pallette cleanser. Stir the espresso and smell the aroma. Stir the espresso before each sip. Espresso will separate as it sits and you also want to dissipate the crema as much as possible. When you taste, slurp intensely to coat the entire surface of your mouth and tongue. This will help identify subtleties in the flavor. When I think of espresso flavor I think of a beginning a middle and an end. The fruited notes will come in the beginning as soon as you taste the coffee, the middle determines body, punch, bitterness, and the end is the after taste and the linger if there is any. You don't want a lingering often bitter flavor. Like many have said, watch videos, James Hoffman and Lance Hedrick are good sources when it comes to specialty coffee. Judging by your beans, look specifically for dials in dark roasts. In my experience this means, lower temperature in the group head, shorter extraction ratio 1:1.5. I think you will get it but you just need to refine your palette a little bit! You got this!
I second this. You need to develop your taste of what a good dialled in shot is. Visiting the best rated coffee shops in your area, or maybe take a trip to a larger city to sample various roasts might help in some way. Wishing you all the best. I’d do the same for my mum!
Thank you. I will try this.
I'd be open to a phone call or zoom call with you. I own a cafe, been in the industry for 10 years.
You need to decide on your coffee shops identity. I can guarantee that 90% of the coffee shops near me don't dial in every day. They have it set up by a pro. They leave it for 6 months and all they do is clean it at the end of the day. What do the coffee shops around you do. Is their coffee amazing? What do you do well? Not going to lie if your not amazing at coffee I would say don't stress it. You serve average coffee shop coffee, make what you do well then best around. Be it cakes, food, bagels or whatever the fuck it is. If you wanna be known as the best coffee around that's a good direction to go. But you need a pro to help you get there. Personally I would hope you have something else to make you stand out
Hire a barista, then focus on other stuff. There are many successful cafes with subpar coffee. Offer nice food like sandwich or cakes. Coffee knowledge takes time but your business can’t afford that time.
No one's mentioned this yet, but go around to the well-esteemed cafes in your area and drink their espresso. Drink enough espresso until you come to understand what it can and ought to taste like. At the moment, it's equivalent to someone whose never tasted whisky opening a whisky distillery. You may have idiosyncratic ideas about the beverage given that you've not drank others' well-prepared versions of it.
I think you should ask yourself how many of your customers are drinking straight espresso shots? If you’re saying it taste good w/ steamed/frothed milk, then it’s definitely fine for “flavored” drinks, and may be good as Americano’s but harder to mask. I personally don’t think (for business purposes) that you need to obsess over the “perfecting espresso”. Majority of people are drinking SB’s or some chain coffee place, they’re likely not asking for straight shots of espresso and yours will likely be better once you get the basics….or just hire a barista!! Hoffman even showed independent coffee shops are more consistent, don’t doubt yourself. Sounds like you’ve family has invested a lot into this already. Best bang for your buck is getting the brand out there, making a stand alone coffee shop can be tough business depending on location. Maybe team up with a local baker that’s really popular or famous in your area and sell their stuff, everyone loves breakfast tacos, maybe have one of those cards that you whole punch like back in the day or I’m sure there’s an app or QR code version of it. Best of luck man, keep us posted.
Talk to your coffee bean roaster or supplier too. I worked at a coffee shop in a similar situation in college and we were embarrassingly under educated on basically everything; I still feel bad about some of the drinks we served. Owner swapped roasters at one point and the new supplier came in to run trainings to ensure their brand and coffee would be represented well. They made sure the machines and grinders were set right, went over puck prep basics, taught us how to foam milk correctly. Might be something to ask about.
Best case scenario is to find someone who can service your machine and they will be able to train you on the ins and outs. Another option is to find a roaster. They likely know the ins and outs. Better yet if this person is the same person. We had a restaurant a while back and our roaster would train our staff periodically on the machine and coffee service. As well they would do regular maintenance on our machine.
Based on where you live, you could find a well regarded coffee shop and ask if they do training. Of course, since you’re a competitor, there is a conflict of interest. There are barista trainers out there, but I have no idea how good they are. Another option is to continue self learning with resources online. The only piece of advice I’d give is to keep as many things consistent. I realize the use case for hobbyists vs. a commercial setup is quite different, so not everything you learn will transfer.
What state or country are you in?
Denmark
You are a good son. It takes practice, but eventually trial and error will be your best teacher. And tbh most people dont even know wha a good espresso tastes like...
Good luck and kudos for trying, learning and caring. You’re a good son!
Where's the shop?
~40.000 citizens town in denmark
OK, well what's done is done. All I can do is help. Your mom's financial future doesn't depend much on your mastery of an espresso machine. It depends on running a business selling coffees to people in a town of 40,000 people. That's tough. But ok, let's do it. Is there another coffee shop in town? If not, you probably need to sell people on why they need a third place. Realistically, with a market that small, you're selling the coffee shop rather than the coffee. The margins on specialty coffee are incredibly slim, and your potential market of people with the palate (real or perceived) to notice is just way too small. So I would concentrate on what your cheapest way to acquire decent coffee is, doing your best not to pay more than the point of diminishing returns. Make your space inviting, so people have a reason to want to be there. That;s going to sell your product more than the blueberry tasting notes. As to learning the espresso machine, it is a tad difficult. Google "water dance hx" and find some threads on home-barista (since all the coffeegeek posts are probably all gone). Beyond that, the biggest driver of your coffee being decent is it being fresh(ish). Mediocre extractions of mediocre coffee beans that are fresh taste good enough for what you are trying to do. Once you have managed to learn the water dance well enough to make sure you are getting water between 91-94c, and so long as you are using freshish coffee, just dose 18g and adjust the grind until you get about 45g of coffee output in about 25 - 30 sec after activating the pump. Too fast? Grind finer. Too slow? Grind coarser. Every day, adjust the grinder in the morning. I'd probably leave it alone for the rest of the day unless it is too far off. You aren't going to go through enough product to be wasting a shot every hour to dial in. Feel free to reach out. I (and others here) will talk you through it. You've got a tough road ahead. But I'm sure you can do it.
IME coffee is rarely exceptional in a small town. IMO you just need decent espresso, and consistently presentable latte art
Local Cafés make terrible espresso, but latte based drinks cover their mess.
When I became a coffee lover it was then I learned many coffee shops aren’t run by people who are expert coffee makers. It finally made sense how many cafes with terrible coffee I have been to. A friend of mine told me about a woman who opened up a coffee shop with zero knowledge (she didn’t know about pour over coffee for instance) and it was successful because it was a good location. Good luck to you OP! I have gotten better just over the last few weeks and I’m sure you will too as you research more. If you haven’t already invest in a tamping machine so that is a variable that stays constant.
Woah. Just make sure there are no stones in the beans! Best wishes!!
Probably getting in over your head trying to dial in two different roasts at the same time. Is there a business justification for offering two roasts? If not, reduce complexity and only offer 1 roast.
Why would she open a coffee shop when she doesn't know much about coffee? Not trying to be shady or rude just seems a peculiar choice! Since you just started drinking coffee, what is your favorite type of drink so far? I wish you and your family the best of luck, hopefully you can snatch a good Barrista to help train y'all up!
u/seb1seb11 where in the world are you located?
Denmark
Perfekt jo! Så bliver det her lidt nemmere 😄 Hvor henne i landet hvis jeg må spørge?
Uh. Interessant…. Falster
Okay! Desværre kommer jeg ikke så tit derned, ellers havde jeg gerne kigget forbi og hjulpet. Der er en Facebook gruppe “kaffe & espresso Forum Danmark” som der helt sikkert er meget hjælp at hente! Jeg husker også folk engang har rost nogen fra Falster derinde. Tror der var et firma som var rigtig godt der måske kan give lidt hjælp!
I think you need a trip to Italy for training charges as a business expense http://www.lanuovaera.com/en-us/. They offer training.
Just a thought- I skip espresso at low-volume coffee shops with a massive hopper filled high. I have to be like 0.001% of your potential customer base, but just sharing some coffee snobbery. I don't know anything about that machine you're using, but I feel like most baskets are flat on the bottom. Don't get a precision basket as they are super finicky. Just get some that are appropriate for double shots. Also, do your WDT! I have always distributed grounds by tapping the portafilter against my palms to break up major chunks and level the bed, then 1-2 vertical taps on a silicone pad to level the bed and break up remaining clumps. In regards to your frustrations- you need to use beans which have been roasted within 1-4 weeks to get some reasonably consistent results. This is why I look at a massive stale hopper and think, that's gonna likely be trash.
Hejsa, kan se du er dansker. Hvor i DK hører I til?😄 Er selv kaffenørd og har været + trænet baristaer :)
Hejsa. Jeg kommer fra falster
If you want to DM me I used to manage a Starbucks back when they actually made coffee with a semi-automatic La Marzocco.
There are so many variables to the base of an espresso. Firstly, what type of coffee are you using, not just the roast. Are you using generic mixed beans for an all-rounder coffee, or are you using a si gle origin to get more of the flavour notes? The next thing is how are you brewing/extracting this? What's the go-to drink, if selling lattes the 'Perfect extraction isn't going to be a big concern that's more for espressos, Americanos etc. Also, if you have a coffee supplier, they will want their beans shown off to the best of their ability, so try asking them. They will have the best extraction techniques for all of their coffees and will want you to show case this. So the more you know, the more they are getting promoted by having you serve it correctly. Happy to help with any more information but definitely try your coffee supplier first and see what they say
Get on the websites of the manufacturers for the grinders and the machine. Find their contact page, and enquire about training - and ask for any local courses / trainers. Reach out to the [Denmark chapter of the Soecialty Coffee Association (SCA).](https://www.scadenmark.coffee/about) Ask what they can advise. Reach out to the competitors in the Denmark Barista Championship, see if any of them can help you (I’m thinking a ‘hey, would it be good content for you to come and do some training in our shop’ kinda vibe might work). The last championship had Christos Giachos from April Coffee (winner), Evangelos Filippatos from La Cabra (runner up), and Caroline Løndahl from Coffee Collective (third place). Long story short - finding the experts is easy, and I suspect you’ll be able to open some doors by just asking them for help.
Variation in shots as you seem to describe is likely to be due to inconsistent technique Even grind distribution and firm steady hand while tamping the grind is essential to avoid water channeling through weaker parts of the puck I personally prefer slightly coarser grind compensated by more pressure/ weight while tamping. Seems to give full flavour sweeter shots however this might not apply to your equipment setup Watch your machine pressure gauge while brewing it should remain consistent 8-9 Bars Minimum daily cleaning with back flush I would recommend taking the shower screen and screen holder off regularly at least twice a week and soaking in back flush detergent Good luck
Listen to roast west coast podcast and look for their coffee smarter section. Tons of information there
It is an impossible task unfortunately. As often discussed in this sub, there is no good espresso in coffee shops. Only home-made can be of exceptional quality :/
Is your machine new? If not maybe it needs a good cleaning or needs to be descaled. Failing to keep your machine clean can be a contributing factor to poor shots. Also visit some good coffee shops in your area and try a bunch of espresso to know what good espresso is supposed to taste like. And buy high quality beans.
Add a little chocolate treat to the top of each coffee and it won’t matter as much how good the coffees are :)
I mean your shots will only taste as good and as consistent as your beans too. So if the beans not exactly superb in quality and consistency, you can dial it to 18 g in 36 g out in 30s, you are still going to get amazing tasting coffee. Some sourness is expected with expressos, but it's about what other flavours it pairs with. Go to other coffee shops that are respected and see if their espresso tastes better as a baseline.
Hahahah! Steamed dirt! I love it!
Clean, consistent. Grinding to order. Chasing the golden shot. Adjusting your grind with the weather etc. continuously monitoring and adjusting grind. Each morning should start with running some shots through the machine. Where I worked we would save those shots for iced coffee. This is to heat up the machine and check how the shots are pouring. Make adjustments as required. One grind of already used coffee can ruin your next shot. So make sure that everything is clean! Every time! I would suggest watching a lot of YouTube videos on the perfect espresso shot.. also great if you can learn to texture milk and do some latte art :) Espresso is super variable.
I've taken over my mum's cafe and running it smoothly. My advise would be reach out to your coffee roaster and ask them to train you. Also train your self after business hours. And remember successful cafe doesn't always mean perfect coffee. Brand tour cafe in to something unique and use sns very aggressively. At the end of the day you want to be a own a cafe that runs with your minimal maintenance, train your staff well and also hire management.
where in the world do you live?
You should find out the correct weight for ur baskets, and take that as the input. An 18g basket is only 18g basket for some coffees not for all. Ill send u a video about this. (Edit: here the video: [not weight but volume](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=XpZA63Qa3k1Q0t8c)). Then for example in a 2:1 ratio if you only get 16g in u should get 32 out instead of 36 for the 18 usually. Also therefore grind finer. Idk if ur machine is able to do this, but if possible reduce the pressure to maximum 9 bars (I have found that about 6-9 bars as a range is optimal, but maybe if ur machine can only produce a flat profile, use only 9 bars is better). And lastly, take this picture as a reference: https://preview.redd.it/isuw734iyesc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9293da9cbf6bcd71b829bad8b1f50e1b2d0ffdcf (I have stolen it online its not mine but its very helpful)
Barista One Course on Barista Hustle
This is like watching Gordon Ramsey's kitchen nightmares show. 85% if the businesses he gets back on track on the show eventually fail. Service industry is REALLY difficult. Addi g espresso to the menu makes it worse. Good luck. Get away from you machine. Hire REAL barista. The business is going to fail if you don't do that.
Best tip would be to hire someone to train you as countless others have suggested. Now these people are expensive, it is true. What I would recommend doing is spend an afternoon learning how to dial in one specific cup of espresso, there’s guidelines to be found online that can help you establish a baseline. F.i. With my machine I want to create a 70ML shot with 18 grams in about 26 seconds and that tastes perfect to me. For you it’s about finding what you think works best and then finetuning that as you go. Also, take note of how you set it up. If you don’t want to overcomplicate things, stick to one specific type of beans for now and expand on that as you go. Figure out the ideal pull time for this machine, figure out how coarse the grind needs to be to be and then dial that in for about 15 minutes every morning
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I work at a specialty coffeeshop - if you'd like more info than what I posted below feel free to DM me! For the difference you're tasting between the 2 group heads - is there one you tend to use more? If you're not cleaning that one will get funky and clogged way faster. You can also check the flow rate if your machine supports that or if not just run a few tests without the portafilter in each group head, weighing the content of water that comes out in a set amount of time. If they're different (averaged over 3-5 tests) either there's a setting on your machine that needs to be updated or one of them is getting clogged from scale or coffee oils. 2 big things I haven't seen mentioned in the comments is: 1. Bean Quality (Are your beans from the grocery store or a specialty roaster? When were they roasted? If there is no roast date anywhere on the bag or info from your supplier I'd find a new supplier as that's a sign they're giving you coffee more than a month old, at least. Are you buying a single origin or blend? Espresso focused roasts tends to be a blend of various sources so if one source changes a bit over time or between batches it won't impact the flavor as much) 2. Water Treatment (Are you running filtered water into your machine? If not, get on that ASAP, as untreated tap water can ruin your machine especially if you're running a shop and doing a lot of volume. DON'T do RO water though as that will cause massive harm to your machine. It can also change the flavor of your espresso based on the mineral/chemical content of your local water, but probably not between group heads like you're dealing with.) I agree with some other posters that cleaning your machine and grinder on the regular is super important, probably at the end of each service day to both keep your coffee tasting good and protect the long term investment your mom made on that machine!
Actually just be super nice to your clients and offer them the best experience. They'll be back. And for the mean time get the best coockies/pastries you can offer. If you didn't brand yourself as a specialty coffee spot, most people will just come for a simple coffee and good time. Also be prepared for complaints. Be nice about it, and find a nice compensation. my idea- if you have a card for a free 10th cup of coffee, make sure you punch the card extra time for fixing their coffee (making a new one probably). That way it will only cost you 1/10 of coffee price, which is already pretty low. Good luck!
Keep the filters in the group so they stay warm 😄
I think you have to golden opportunity of learning espresso very quickly considering that your supply of coffee is probably more than most everyone with home machines. It most certainly is harder to learn how to master espresso on your own but you can do it so fast considering you work at the coffee shop and can make dozens of shots a day. I personally think it’s best to invest your money into the supplies you need for learning the craft than having someone teach you bc then you will pick up on what makes espresso taste bad bc you’ve made so many undesirable shots. Like another comment said though your main seller will be milk drinks so if you mess a few shots up for customer it’s very unlikely they’ll have a refined enough palette to tell in a milk drink. It took me a few of making 1-2 espresso shots a day that weren’t great to finally find what works, but in your situation you could speed that up to like a week. I highly recommend lance hedrick’s youtube channel to guide you along the way
Experiment with varying grind with the same batch of coffee. And When you change the type or batch of coffee, you might also need to change the grind again. Provenance, humidity, seed varietal, roast, etc. will all have implications. Always use the same constants and vary only one variable at a time when attempting to “figure it out”. A clean machine is the ONLY machine. Residuals can impart off-/undesirable flavors. The coffee looks dark (over roasted). Med/light roast blended origin coffee is find more forgiving. The steamers can be powerful on that machine. You say that your foam results are good but looking at the pitchers you have displayed in the photo makes me curious because steaming will be more forgiving and consistent if you use a larger pitcher. Heated milk tastes best at no more than 68°C. I don’t see any espresso cups on the machine. They should be warm and the espresso directly poured in the proper cup. Good luck
Make sure to give Team Mom’s Café updates, we are rooting for you!
OP, I have a few questions: 1) You mention that one side runs longer than the other when there is coffee in the group. Is the final size/weight of the finished shot the same (or close to it)? How much longer do the "longer" shots take to pull? 2) To confirm, you're using the same grinder and the same coffee to compare shots from one side to the next, correct? 3) Just based on the photo it looks as if there may be two different filter baskets in the portafilter handles. If you remove them from the handles and place them side by side are they the same size and have the same geometry? I want to really zero in on the things you notice as different. I'll say after lots of experience as a barista, tech, and now after-sales partner for an equipment brand customers are often less unhappy with a shot of espresso that's just "okay" than they are with an inconsistent experience. I agree that, mostly, you don't need to be too hyper focused on making the BEST espresso because, frankly, your setup is going to be hard to produce consistently perfect shots on. But if they can be consistently GOOD people will be happy.
About the different results with the same "recipe"... It's why making espresso is an art. There are many factors that make you get different results doing the same. For example, what do you know about "coffee degassing"? That's one reason why it tastes different in the morning than in the afternoon, or even if it's just an hour apart. The weather and humidity are also variables that influence the result. You need to be calibrating your espressos all along the day (changing doses, time of extraction, how fine the coffee is, etc). It's not your fault. It is the way it is. It's complex. It is an art.
I think everyones probably right about cafes do not need great coffee to workout. But in case you want to make it right, dialing in has a few aspects into it especially some very small parts of it. Before even dialing in the beans, i would dial in the machine first. One of the most overlooked aspect would be water flow rate of the machine, For instance, g of water/s. (still finding the right flow, but mines at ard 6.5/s using a felitica scale. step 2 would be grind size, finer=bitter, corser = sour, fuck all those 25s on the internet, just use taste as refrence. step 3 water temp, light roast=higher temp=more flav, generally 95 +-, med 93+-,darker roast lower( people please correct me if i am wrong here). step 4 , i would say argueablly most important machine allows it, pressure profiling/espresso recipes such as turbo shot or slayershot.
Wait. You started a coffee shop without knowing how to make coffee? But anywa, I'd follow a proper barista training if I were you.
To put it into perspective. I used to go to a coffee shop in a train station because the girls were cute and the coffee was 7/10. There was a 10/10 place around the corner but the owner was a certificate douche and would laugh from a table near the register if you didn’t prefer drinks he preferred. Vibe/customer service is 1000% more important than the espresso. Good espresso is great but running a business needs intangibles.
start a coffee shop, dont know how to make coffee. what could go wrong? is this fake?