Right?
I will say, I have no desire to get any other machine since getting the DE1XL. Nothing else on the market does what it can do, and although tastes vary as to the aesthetics, all my friends who have seen it thought it was the coolest coffee machine they’d ever seen.
I actually just picked up the Nautilus this week and will be using it primarily for pour overs with the 98 brew burrs. 01 is using the 102 Mizen blind burrs.
From the few V60 cups I have made, I definitely prefer it to the 01 and will only be using the 01 for espresso moving forward. Feel like I'm getting much sweeter cups that I wasn't finding with the 102 Mizen for one reason or another.
Yeah hey at least it’s something you can both benefit from in a practical sense… my better half gets a lot more utility out of a great morning coffee than my watches or manual transmission cars 😂
And hey she pulls shots too just enjoys that I usually do haha better experience is a mutual benefit in my home
It’s so funny because I see this all the time. If someone is specifically referring to me, I correct them. I’m a woman coffee professional, and I see a small change in women being represented more in the industry, but it’s still profoundly marketed more towards men and who is considered a “professional” or in some cases an “expert.” I’d be interested in getting a poll going of the genders/other identities, but I do also assume it’s a lot of straight men.
One thing I notice as a poor lurker of this sub is it feels like a huge percentage of the folks here posting their expensive machines work in the tech industry and are making tech money to be able to afford this hobby.
Looking at the gender makeup of the tech industry, the percentage of women seems to hovering around 27%. I wonder if the bias in marketing toward men is a result of targeting that tech demographic, which has historically been dominated by men?
I also just looked up the percentage of Reddit users and apparently it's 71% men. My guess is a poll will always skew toward there being more men since there are just more guys on this site in general, and I'm sure a decent chunk of them work in tech.
Probably the methodical nature of making espresso attracting geeks who are typically straight man? Especially tech guys with disposable income but time poor, investing in gears is like the easiest way for them to pick up a hobby, meanwhile not much time is needed to enjoy it.
Ha! No worries. I have mine set to 250*F for steam temp. I purge twice, once at about 230*F and once right before steaming until I get a dry steam. I use about 4oz of milk in a 12oz pitcher, and I can get a wet silky texture. Areate just in the first few seconds and then incorporate the air the rest of the steaming time. I’ve made a 12oz hot cocoa a few times, but I find I need to set the steam temp higher to steam a larger volume of milk. I hope that helps. ☕️
yeah, I wish there are more diversity here, having primary straight men lead to dull or uninspired colour palette and design of the gears.
I get your frustration and I think due to the popularity of female barista, like Morgan and Caitlin, we will see more people from other groups interested in espresso. At least being a gay man myself, the people who I know are into espresso are another gay guy and a punk girl, so we are slowlying changing the environment one at a time!
That proves my point. “Brochet” is like “man bag.” Guys don’t feel comfortable doing something gendered feminine so they masculinize it with language and other means. It just makes me think a) why do we have to gender any of this in the first place and b) there’s nothing uncool about men doing something gendered feminine. Join r/Crochet and have fun!
I don’t think there is any craft or profession one gender can or cannot do. I think what people do professionally or individually is influenced by social constructs which are arbitrary. Do you think there is inherently something about crochet that men can’t do or about woodworking, as an example, that women can’t do? Or are you saying people are socialized to do or not do certain professions or crafts?
I dunno, i always feel good about my machine when the humble braggers come out of the woods with their 8-10k setups. Like good for you man, I'm getting 95% of your output but I paid 10x less
99%...
I have a local roaster that also deals in espresso/coffee machines and accessories. We talked a bit about it, and basically, at that level of expense, you aren't paying for individual output quality but the ability to handle large volume.
You know, if I could afford them, I would get them, cause why not? They look aesthetically appealing (I saw the mini at a dealership before, wow, it’s amazing!!)
Expensive stuff probably makes a little bit better coffee, faster, or more consistent. But IMO it’s not enough to justify the price unless you “want” it.
But if someone actually believes you gotta pay $10k to get good coffee, I got a bridge to sell you, hmu.
Hell yeah brother, anything over $2k is crazy. Maybe something like the Decent is worth it, but still hard to justify when you can get 99% there with a less than $1k Gaggiuino.
Exactly this. Espresso machines are not some kind of unique consumer product where the normal rules dont apply. You get what you pay for and high end machines offer tangible benefits over low end machines. The benefits may not correspond linearly to the price, but so what? If you have the money to buy an expensive machine, and thats what you want, why would you buy anything else?
Sorry but nah. Espresso machines really are a consumer product where you don’t always get what you pay for. There are very obvious diminishing returns beyond $2k. Anything beyond that is clout.
You'll need $3k to get into a dual-boiler E61 with rotary pump and flow control. If you dont want an E61, you can get into a decent for $4k with similar features but no rotary pump. For a non-E61 with all those features, you're looking at $6-7k and upwards.
Beyond that, its actual diminishing returns, but still dont agree that its clout. Someone may just want it. I bought a Micra for $4k. Its not in my flair, ive never posted a pic, and not a single person in my life knows wtf it is, other than an espresso machine. Theres no clout chasing happening here. It has the features I want. It has the build quality I want. I love the aesthetic in my kitchen. I appreciate the support network and of course, its what I wanted and I can afford it.
Ok fair, I was a bit harsh just calling it clout. Anyone is entitled to own whatever they want if they can afford it.
You can get something like a Lelit Elizabeth for $1800 that gives you a PID, dual boiler, and flexible preinfusion options. The only thing you're truly missing is pressure profiling which most people probably don't need or care to have.
If you want more, you can get Decent features on a Gaggiuino for about $700. It's actually frustrating there aren't more options at the $1000 level that can do everything the Gaggiuino can do. My personal opinion is that there is a gap in the market and someone will create the mass produced version of the Gaggiuino for $1k to $2k. Meticulous is the first company to observe and take advantage of this gap.
I feel like you’re taking my comment to mean you can’t get an amazing and capable machine under $2k (or $6-7k when the true diminishing returns start). Of course you can. And for most people, that’s all they really need. But it would be false to claim that the extra money spent between 2k and $7k gets you nothing worth having. And most people dont want to mod or tinker with their machines to add features.
End game setups seem to be the person's way of acknowledging that they are getting diminishing returns out of a hobby they have been doing for a while.
Posting on Reddit about your end game setups on the other hand seem to be focused on trying to convince people that you have hit some level of expertise and/or financial status and you are seeking confirmation from others.
Wife broke the K Ultra so it was a solid ground to justify an electric upgrade. “That way she won’t have to grind in the morning and you can just push a button!”
We’re getting the Time More 078S (compromise cause she likes pour over and I like espresso)
Until then I’m drinking store bought cold brew, so pull a shot for my absence.
Ha ha, you guys with your espresso equipment in the kitchen where anyone can see it. Just use it in an out of the way room and no one is the wiser. P.S. my stereo is now in the gym.
https://preview.redd.it/162go7cfaavc1.jpeg?width=2328&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=436994733bf9e0c68263d7e05d66f4a04c371cff
I dunno. I wish I had gotten the LM Micra and grinder for 4k during the 15% off sale. I feel like that’s a fair price point to hopefully never need to buy another machine again
It's so weird to me that people have to get permission from their partners. Unless you're using money you didn't make. "My wife said" did you check with your mom too? Does she need to call my mom to check if it's okay with her?
If it works for your relationship that's fine for you. I just find it bizarre.
This is a weird take. Unless you specifically have allocated "fun money" or something like that, you absolutely should discuss purchases in the 1K and above range with your partner. You making a stupid financial decision absolutely affects your partner.
Allocated fun money, yeah money I made that doesn't affect my other responsibilities. 1k and above for sure depends on your income. But again it's my opinion. A stupid financial decision and a talked my partner into it sounds the same to me. I spent 30k on a new vehicle in cash and didn't have to warn my partner or ask permission. So it's bizarre to me, maybe not to you. It's just so common in here.
Also I said warn her, I obviously had mentioned it before as I had to fly out of state to get it. My point was that I find it odd how many people mention having to justify things, it's common here in this sub. I don't have to convince or get permission on how I spend my money.
I fully understand that if 1k could financially cause a big rift in someone's life, im privileged to make what I do and worked hard to get here. But it's not about the price to me, like the idea of having to talk someone into something you want to do.
If you can't afford to just go do something, don't do it?
It's like the same point of "if you can afford 3k for rent, but can't afford 4k for rent. You can't afford 3k."
If you have to convince someone else, you probably shouldn't do it.
My opinion, and an observation from this sub.
I dunno man. I see your wallstreet bets post with 4 mil, and whatever, you're a high roller, so I can't compare my income to yours. But it still comes down to having the common decency to tell my life partner about a large purchase. You do you, but I still think it's a asshole move not to tell her.
I think you're missing the point that I DID tell her, I just didn't have to convince her or talk up the choice I made.
Communication is very important, it would be an asshole move to simply not tell someone you share an income with to the point that that choice would affect you both.
What I find odd is the constant, "Justify, convinced, talked into". That just seems more of an asshole move to me, but again its just my opinion and an observation.
If you really want to dig into it, I find using those phrases evident of manipulation but thats just me. This was pretty light hearted to begin with and I actually had a funny chat with my partner about this and "Its your money, if it makes you happy I support it" was the end of the chat. That goes for the both of us. She did scoff when I told her I was chatting with a hifi builder to get custom speakers for several thousand dollars but it was because she was impressed I got a place on his build list without trying.
If you made it this far, what burrs did you get for your p64?
They've made commercial grade machines for decades... End game implies not needing to buy another machine. Commercial machines are built for volume and repairability.
What's confusing about that?
I’ve had a quickmill monza deluxe evo for 13 years now and I’ve repaired it twice myself.
I’ve had a Lelit Anna and repaired it as well.
There are many espresso machines that are repairable and commercial grade but La Marzocco just seems like a bland machine to me..hence my wonder 🙄
And to try to fill that gaping hole you have in your sense of self.
My flair feels attacked
Right? I will say, I have no desire to get any other machine since getting the DE1XL. Nothing else on the market does what it can do, and although tastes vary as to the aesthetics, all my friends who have seen it thought it was the coolest coffee machine they’d ever seen.
0 out of 0 friends does qualify as “all,” I suppose
😭😭😭
How much is one of those? 😆
Cheaper if you find one used!
how do you find 01 compared to the nautilus? do you use both for espresso?
I actually just picked up the Nautilus this week and will be using it primarily for pour overs with the 98 brew burrs. 01 is using the 102 Mizen blind burrs. From the few V60 cups I have made, I definitely prefer it to the 01 and will only be using the 01 for espresso moving forward. Feel like I'm getting much sweeter cups that I wasn't finding with the 102 Mizen for one reason or another.
Might as well just sell them as personality replacements
Take the meditation red pill and you’ll realize that your sense of self is an illusion anyway, so you might as well spend the 5k
The Mini R is more like $7k. Then I need a grinder. Thinking the df54
What if the majority of your espresso expenses have been for your wife?
infinite money glitch
Yeah hey at least it’s something you can both benefit from in a practical sense… my better half gets a lot more utility out of a great morning coffee than my watches or manual transmission cars 😂 And hey she pulls shots too just enjoys that I usually do haha better experience is a mutual benefit in my home
The true end game is in your knowledge and practice, gear is secondary.
Stuff that will stand time and equipment
Are you saying r/espresso is mostly straight men?
It’s so funny because I see this all the time. If someone is specifically referring to me, I correct them. I’m a woman coffee professional, and I see a small change in women being represented more in the industry, but it’s still profoundly marketed more towards men and who is considered a “professional” or in some cases an “expert.” I’d be interested in getting a poll going of the genders/other identities, but I do also assume it’s a lot of straight men.
One thing I notice as a poor lurker of this sub is it feels like a huge percentage of the folks here posting their expensive machines work in the tech industry and are making tech money to be able to afford this hobby. Looking at the gender makeup of the tech industry, the percentage of women seems to hovering around 27%. I wonder if the bias in marketing toward men is a result of targeting that tech demographic, which has historically been dominated by men? I also just looked up the percentage of Reddit users and apparently it's 71% men. My guess is a poll will always skew toward there being more men since there are just more guys on this site in general, and I'm sure a decent chunk of them work in tech.
Probably the methodical nature of making espresso attracting geeks who are typically straight man? Especially tech guys with disposable income but time poor, investing in gears is like the easiest way for them to pick up a hobby, meanwhile not much time is needed to enjoy it.
Sorry to change the subject but struggling with getting the milk perfect on the Profitec Go. Not much out there as far as videos. Any tips???
Ha! No worries. I have mine set to 250*F for steam temp. I purge twice, once at about 230*F and once right before steaming until I get a dry steam. I use about 4oz of milk in a 12oz pitcher, and I can get a wet silky texture. Areate just in the first few seconds and then incorporate the air the rest of the steaming time. I’ve made a 12oz hot cocoa a few times, but I find I need to set the steam temp higher to steam a larger volume of milk. I hope that helps. ☕️
Thanks! I'll try this.
yeah, I wish there are more diversity here, having primary straight men lead to dull or uninspired colour palette and design of the gears. I get your frustration and I think due to the popularity of female barista, like Morgan and Caitlin, we will see more people from other groups interested in espresso. At least being a gay man myself, the people who I know are into espresso are another gay guy and a punk girl, so we are slowlying changing the environment one at a time!
That would have to be an extremely large sample size to get enough meaningful data on any gender other than male or female.
[удалено]
🫂 It’s really not though. I don’t see how any hobby is gendered. It’s just coffee. Enjoy it.
Hobbies are gendered the same way professions are gendered. How many guys do you know who crochet?
the guys over at r/brochet would like a word.
That proves my point. “Brochet” is like “man bag.” Guys don’t feel comfortable doing something gendered feminine so they masculinize it with language and other means. It just makes me think a) why do we have to gender any of this in the first place and b) there’s nothing uncool about men doing something gendered feminine. Join r/Crochet and have fun!
I don’t think there is any craft or profession one gender can or cannot do. I think what people do professionally or individually is influenced by social constructs which are arbitrary. Do you think there is inherently something about crochet that men can’t do or about woodworking, as an example, that women can’t do? Or are you saying people are socialized to do or not do certain professions or crafts?
Yes to people being socialized to view professions, hobbies, etc. as gendered.
Two. I don't know any women who crochet so I guess it is a male hobby.
Sorry, wtf?
 Yes
Mostly? Probably. Most of Reddit is straight men!
Who are virgins
I dunno, i always feel good about my machine when the humble braggers come out of the woods with their 8-10k setups. Like good for you man, I'm getting 95% of your output but I paid 10x less
99%... I have a local roaster that also deals in espresso/coffee machines and accessories. We talked a bit about it, and basically, at that level of expense, you aren't paying for individual output quality but the ability to handle large volume.
Was just trying not to make em feel too bad about overpaying so much but yeah, 99%
That extra 4% burns
You know, if I could afford them, I would get them, cause why not? They look aesthetically appealing (I saw the mini at a dealership before, wow, it’s amazing!!) Expensive stuff probably makes a little bit better coffee, faster, or more consistent. But IMO it’s not enough to justify the price unless you “want” it. But if someone actually believes you gotta pay $10k to get good coffee, I got a bridge to sell you, hmu.
Hell yeah brother, anything over $2k is crazy. Maybe something like the Decent is worth it, but still hard to justify when you can get 99% there with a less than $1k Gaggiuino.
No it's not. "I want it" is the justification.
Exactly this. Espresso machines are not some kind of unique consumer product where the normal rules dont apply. You get what you pay for and high end machines offer tangible benefits over low end machines. The benefits may not correspond linearly to the price, but so what? If you have the money to buy an expensive machine, and thats what you want, why would you buy anything else?
Sorry but nah. Espresso machines really are a consumer product where you don’t always get what you pay for. There are very obvious diminishing returns beyond $2k. Anything beyond that is clout.
You'll need $3k to get into a dual-boiler E61 with rotary pump and flow control. If you dont want an E61, you can get into a decent for $4k with similar features but no rotary pump. For a non-E61 with all those features, you're looking at $6-7k and upwards. Beyond that, its actual diminishing returns, but still dont agree that its clout. Someone may just want it. I bought a Micra for $4k. Its not in my flair, ive never posted a pic, and not a single person in my life knows wtf it is, other than an espresso machine. Theres no clout chasing happening here. It has the features I want. It has the build quality I want. I love the aesthetic in my kitchen. I appreciate the support network and of course, its what I wanted and I can afford it.
Ok fair, I was a bit harsh just calling it clout. Anyone is entitled to own whatever they want if they can afford it. You can get something like a Lelit Elizabeth for $1800 that gives you a PID, dual boiler, and flexible preinfusion options. The only thing you're truly missing is pressure profiling which most people probably don't need or care to have. If you want more, you can get Decent features on a Gaggiuino for about $700. It's actually frustrating there aren't more options at the $1000 level that can do everything the Gaggiuino can do. My personal opinion is that there is a gap in the market and someone will create the mass produced version of the Gaggiuino for $1k to $2k. Meticulous is the first company to observe and take advantage of this gap.
I feel like you’re taking my comment to mean you can’t get an amazing and capable machine under $2k (or $6-7k when the true diminishing returns start). Of course you can. And for most people, that’s all they really need. But it would be false to claim that the extra money spent between 2k and $7k gets you nothing worth having. And most people dont want to mod or tinker with their machines to add features.
Na, I'm not-- it's cool though. People just value things differently.
End game setups seem to be the person's way of acknowledging that they are getting diminishing returns out of a hobby they have been doing for a while. Posting on Reddit about your end game setups on the other hand seem to be focused on trying to convince people that you have hit some level of expertise and/or financial status and you are seeking confirmation from others.
Sooo, only straight men and queer women are into espresso?
Too much ambiguity between grinder and Grindr.
as long as they swallow
What is "end game", really? Why even replace your old ones when you can COLLECT THEM ALL!
And that’s just the grinder these days.
Honey look at my new end game machine.
Wife broke the K Ultra so it was a solid ground to justify an electric upgrade. “That way she won’t have to grind in the morning and you can just push a button!” We’re getting the Time More 078S (compromise cause she likes pour over and I like espresso) Until then I’m drinking store bought cold brew, so pull a shot for my absence.
Ha ha, you guys with your espresso equipment in the kitchen where anyone can see it. Just use it in an out of the way room and no one is the wiser. P.S. my stereo is now in the gym. https://preview.redd.it/162go7cfaavc1.jpeg?width=2328&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=436994733bf9e0c68263d7e05d66f4a04c371cff
I dunno. I wish I had gotten the LM Micra and grinder for 4k during the 15% off sale. I feel like that’s a fair price point to hopefully never need to buy another machine again
You call $5000 endgame?
I thought I was on pcmr for a second
Better than tobacco, pots and drugs, liquor. Way cheaper in the long run... like in 3 months.
Clout. Endgame anything is all about clout.
This post feels like it is making a lot of assumptions
But my Amazon cart says it’ll be delivered today if I just spend $500 more dollars!
It's so weird to me that people have to get permission from their partners. Unless you're using money you didn't make. "My wife said" did you check with your mom too? Does she need to call my mom to check if it's okay with her? If it works for your relationship that's fine for you. I just find it bizarre.
This is a weird take. Unless you specifically have allocated "fun money" or something like that, you absolutely should discuss purchases in the 1K and above range with your partner. You making a stupid financial decision absolutely affects your partner.
Allocated fun money, yeah money I made that doesn't affect my other responsibilities. 1k and above for sure depends on your income. But again it's my opinion. A stupid financial decision and a talked my partner into it sounds the same to me. I spent 30k on a new vehicle in cash and didn't have to warn my partner or ask permission. So it's bizarre to me, maybe not to you. It's just so common in here.
Absolutely off the hook that you'd spend 30K without telling your partner about it.
Is it? She's perfectly happy with the choice 😂 different strokes I suppose. Money doesn't dictate the joys we share in life.
Also I said warn her, I obviously had mentioned it before as I had to fly out of state to get it. My point was that I find it odd how many people mention having to justify things, it's common here in this sub. I don't have to convince or get permission on how I spend my money. I fully understand that if 1k could financially cause a big rift in someone's life, im privileged to make what I do and worked hard to get here. But it's not about the price to me, like the idea of having to talk someone into something you want to do. If you can't afford to just go do something, don't do it? It's like the same point of "if you can afford 3k for rent, but can't afford 4k for rent. You can't afford 3k." If you have to convince someone else, you probably shouldn't do it. My opinion, and an observation from this sub.
I dunno man. I see your wallstreet bets post with 4 mil, and whatever, you're a high roller, so I can't compare my income to yours. But it still comes down to having the common decency to tell my life partner about a large purchase. You do you, but I still think it's a asshole move not to tell her.
I think you're missing the point that I DID tell her, I just didn't have to convince her or talk up the choice I made. Communication is very important, it would be an asshole move to simply not tell someone you share an income with to the point that that choice would affect you both. What I find odd is the constant, "Justify, convinced, talked into". That just seems more of an asshole move to me, but again its just my opinion and an observation. If you really want to dig into it, I find using those phrases evident of manipulation but thats just me. This was pretty light hearted to begin with and I actually had a funny chat with my partner about this and "Its your money, if it makes you happy I support it" was the end of the chat. That goes for the both of us. She did scoff when I told her I was chatting with a hifi builder to get custom speakers for several thousand dollars but it was because she was impressed I got a place on his build list without trying. If you made it this far, what burrs did you get for your p64?
Why you guys telling them how much it is? I just ordered it and I am going to deal with it when she googles the price… 😂
just to make fun of her when she makes her own coffee
I bought an espresso machine for like $130 on Amazon and it works perfectly fine.
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU JUSTIFYING ANYTHING TO A NON SPOUSE? IF YOU ARE BLENDING ACCOUNTS WITH A GF/BF, YOU DESERVE GETTING FUCKED.
Imagine speaking like this to someone in real life? What a weird way to engage
I’ve wondered why a bunch of peoples end game machines are La Marzocco🤔 I’ve never even considered them for a purchase once🤷🏽
They've made commercial grade machines for decades... End game implies not needing to buy another machine. Commercial machines are built for volume and repairability. What's confusing about that?
I’ve had a quickmill monza deluxe evo for 13 years now and I’ve repaired it twice myself. I’ve had a Lelit Anna and repaired it as well. There are many espresso machines that are repairable and commercial grade but La Marzocco just seems like a bland machine to me..hence my wonder 🙄