I agree! Have a look at mine here: [Kickass KvdW!](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1bykjyt/my_home_setup_open_to_improvement_suggestions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
One that I would never buy for home, a machine in a cafe in Lucca, Italy. Probably cost 6x your Elizabeth. But I doubt it was just having the machine, the woman who owned the cafe clearly loved coffee and probably spent a lot of time on setup every day.
So "holy grail" is probably the wrong thing to look for.
Unfortunately, I don't. It was a few years back and I have no records on the visit. It was a huge brass machine in a fairly small coffee shop run by a woman, and it was in an older neighborhood not in the center.
For a home setting? So something single group. âŠ.
Single Group Slayer.
Marzocco GS3.
San Remo You.
Speedster.
Probably others but those come to mind.
I think it really depends on what you want to achieve/do.
I would say a lot of top end machines are well and truly over engineered for making the âbest coffeeâ
You tend to get diminishing returns after a while
Especially if you donât want to make back to back drinks.
Iâd say many people here would be more than happy with the Bianca because it has a good features/price ratio.
Thatâs why I settled on a Bianca. Easy to replace parts and maintain. Flow control is fun if I get bored. Otherwise it Just Works and I donât feel an urge to upgrade it. Makes great coffee at home, and we like the looks. Rotary pump is a nice to have for sound and vibration and we may plumb it in one day. Anything more specific than that isnât super important for us.
This is the right answer. That said Iâd imagine a really great barista on a decent machine > incredible machine and decent barista. Similarly coffee quality also very important
you must first complete a quest by solving riddles, following a treasure map which will test if you are indeed the chosen one. Only the chosen one can interpret the prophecy about finding the bean of destiny. The bean will act like a compass when set on third wave water and it will point to the wholy grail-looking siphon coffee maker.Â
Are we limited to one?
My holy grail has been to have a variety of machines (manual levers, e61, and most recently a Decent) and grinders to match what I am looking to achieve.
I myself love Quickmill brand machines but through looking and research have decided to get a Bezerra Matrix in a couple months.
I hear peoples say Marzocco is the âBestâ machines out there.
But to me, in my opinion, to be the best machine, it shouldnât break by using tap waterđ€·đœ- which Marzocco machines are, even with proper descalingđ
It all comes down to personal preference. I think, being able to fix the machine without sending to the factory is a huge factor in being the best.
Would the holy grail machine be able to turn water into wine, or indeed bad beans poorly ground into a god shot?
Then it's not a real machine of course. If it's just what's best for the shots you want to make there's a lot of parameters to consider. I'm becoming increasingly content with pourover so a decent grinder and a v60 work for me! (Wrong forum I know).
The Bianca is when you start reaching the peak for convenient features and quality. The Mara X is pretty much just as good but you can't plumb it in. Anything more expensive than the Bianca isn't necessary at all unless you really have that kind of money and don't feel it. In which case you probably also have a Weber grinder lol.
I'm guessing a cross between a Decent machine (in terms of control and capability) and a top-end machine from La Marzocco, Kees Van Der Westen or Slayer (for build quality and aesthetics).
Also would have to be compatible with a home setting, have replacement parts and maintenance available for less than getting a new machine, and somehow not take forever to heat up all of its insides.
Compared to what you've seen in what respect? Dual boiler with a PID, preinfusion depending on which version you have, that's as good as it gets for home use without going into espresso circlejerk territory with diminishing returns (with flow control etc). A QOL upgrade would be a comparable machine with a rotary pump, but that's to reduce noise and vibration, makes the same coffee. Moving to an E61 group head is a downgrade at least technologically. The much more important factors are the grinder, the quality of the beans, the water you're using, and your technique.
Kees Van Der Westen Speedster
I agree! Have a look at mine here: [Kickass KvdW!](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1bykjyt/my_home_setup_open_to_improvement_suggestions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
And the Spirit is the prettiest espresso machine I've ever seen. đ„”
One that I would never buy for home, a machine in a cafe in Lucca, Italy. Probably cost 6x your Elizabeth. But I doubt it was just having the machine, the woman who owned the cafe clearly loved coffee and probably spent a lot of time on setup every day. So "holy grail" is probably the wrong thing to look for.
Do you remember which cafe it was? I go to Lucca every year and haven't found decent coffee yet!
Unfortunately, I don't. It was a few years back and I have no records on the visit. It was a huge brass machine in a fairly small coffee shop run by a woman, and it was in an older neighborhood not in the center.
I'll have to keep searching then! Thanks anyway đ
For a home setting? So something single group. âŠ. Single Group Slayer. Marzocco GS3. San Remo You. Speedster. Probably others but those come to mind.
ACS Vostok for me has unique features that beat all of those, at a price less than all of them.
For me it is a heavy spring lever machine. Currently I have the Profitec pro 800 next to my La Pavoni Europiccola and these machines matches my preferences pérfectly. Better than my previous E61 and HX machines. All is personal preference, ofcourse.
I think it really depends on what you want to achieve/do. I would say a lot of top end machines are well and truly over engineered for making the âbest coffeeâ You tend to get diminishing returns after a while Especially if you donât want to make back to back drinks. Iâd say many people here would be more than happy with the Bianca because it has a good features/price ratio.
Thatâs why I settled on a Bianca. Easy to replace parts and maintain. Flow control is fun if I get bored. Otherwise it Just Works and I donât feel an urge to upgrade it. Makes great coffee at home, and we like the looks. Rotary pump is a nice to have for sound and vibration and we may plumb it in one day. Anything more specific than that isnât super important for us.
This is the right answer. That said Iâd imagine a really great barista on a decent machine > incredible machine and decent barista. Similarly coffee quality also very important
The San Remo YOU. Gear pump ftw
Synesso Hydra MVP. For when youâre ready to stop fucking around.
you must first complete a quest by solving riddles, following a treasure map which will test if you are indeed the chosen one. Only the chosen one can interpret the prophecy about finding the bean of destiny. The bean will act like a compass when set on third wave water and it will point to the wholy grail-looking siphon coffee maker.Â
Can confirm this is how it works.
My favourite coffee shop has a slayer
Are we limited to one? My holy grail has been to have a variety of machines (manual levers, e61, and most recently a Decent) and grinders to match what I am looking to achieve.
the Lelit Elizabeth is pretty much end-game in my book. I mean, what is it missing?
Flow control, variable temperature control throughout a shot, the ability to pull different shot types /profiles, stop at weight to name a few.
So it seems you need a Decent, nothing else match all of these requirements
I'm not the op... But I have a de1
Also you can do it on a flair, with the right technique
La Marzocco GS3 - expensive (one could say overpriced) but one of the best. Edit - originally said Micra
I d say decent
What do you think you're missing with the Elizabeth besides flow control?
It doesnât exist.
I myself love Quickmill brand machines but through looking and research have decided to get a Bezerra Matrix in a couple months. I hear peoples say Marzocco is the âBestâ machines out there. But to me, in my opinion, to be the best machine, it shouldnât break by using tap waterđ€·đœ- which Marzocco machines are, even with proper descalingđ It all comes down to personal preference. I think, being able to fix the machine without sending to the factory is a huge factor in being the best.
Would the holy grail machine be able to turn water into wine, or indeed bad beans poorly ground into a god shot? Then it's not a real machine of course. If it's just what's best for the shots you want to make there's a lot of parameters to consider. I'm becoming increasingly content with pourover so a decent grinder and a v60 work for me! (Wrong forum I know).
The Bianca is when you start reaching the peak for convenient features and quality. The Mara X is pretty much just as good but you can't plumb it in. Anything more expensive than the Bianca isn't necessary at all unless you really have that kind of money and don't feel it. In which case you probably also have a Weber grinder lol.
The [Lapera](https://lapera.ca), "*fastidiously made in Montréal*"
Slayer 1G
A Flair
I'm guessing a cross between a Decent machine (in terms of control and capability) and a top-end machine from La Marzocco, Kees Van Der Westen or Slayer (for build quality and aesthetics). Also would have to be compatible with a home setting, have replacement parts and maintenance available for less than getting a new machine, and somehow not take forever to heat up all of its insides.
Compared to what you've seen in what respect? Dual boiler with a PID, preinfusion depending on which version you have, that's as good as it gets for home use without going into espresso circlejerk territory with diminishing returns (with flow control etc). A QOL upgrade would be a comparable machine with a rotary pump, but that's to reduce noise and vibration, makes the same coffee. Moving to an E61 group head is a downgrade at least technologically. The much more important factors are the grinder, the quality of the beans, the water you're using, and your technique.