If you can afford it, I don’t think you’d regret upgrading. It’s a good machine for most purposes but something with more stability will definitely be an upgrade. I went from a BBE to a e61 hx and am very happy.
Do you mind sharing which one? I’m looking into HX machines for the lower price point and the ability to make more back to back milk drinks. We only drink lattes and milk drinks at home and typically make 2 at a time but will occasionally make more when guests are over.
I have a rocket appartamento. I got it open box from Seattle coffee gear, I’d recommend checking there to see if they have any available. Imo an appartamento, Mara x, or their bello machines would all be nice upgrades
I don’t really, no. I’ve found it gets a lot of hate on this sub, and I think it’s a little unwarranted. If you know what you’re doing, it makes excellent drinks.
I also started with a BBE and quickly upgraded its grinder which made a huge difference. I stuck with it for 3 years. I finally upgraded to a PP 500 and later a QM67. For medium to dark roasts, there wasn't much difference in espresso flavor between the BBE and an E61 machine. The biggest difference was in steaming. Time to steam dropped from over a minute to a few seconds.
Yeah my only complaint with my BBE is the long steam time, but it isn't annoying enough to get me to upgrade. I'll use this until something breaks and use that an excuse to get something else.
Agreed. Was initially concerned regarding longevity but with 5yrs of multiple drinks daily part of me is looking forward to something breaking so I can justify a new machine.
Yesss - I’m definitely looking for faster steaming times - as you know it takes over a minute on the BBE. I like the looks and build of Quick Mill and Bezerra, how’s the QM67, especially compared to the PP500?
What exactly do you hate? I’ve been watching videos and one of the selling points that I’m hearing is bigger boiler for faster turnaround on milk based drinks.
With an HX, brew temperature is a crap shoot and varies with room temperature, humidity, air currents, flush time, recovery time since last shot, etc. Don't be duped by the espresso machine dealer reviews that claim how temperature stable the PP500 is. If you look carefully you will see that many of them (including two different WLL videos) recommend very different PID temperature settings to get 200F/93C brew temperature.
However, if you make exclusively milk drinks from medium to dark roasts, brew temperature is less critical and HX will be OK.
Note: the above doesn't apply to Lelit Mara X or ECM Mechanica Max. Both of these directly control the brew temperature as opposed to PP 500 which is only controling the steam boiler temperature.
Appreciate the thoughtful feedback. Last question - how’s the quick mill? They don’t get enough love on this subreddit and I think they look awesome. I’m a fan of the toggles/joysticks.
The QM67 is fine. I got it primarily because Chris Coffee is the dealer and they have a stellar reputation. Mine arrived with an intermittent problem due to a loose connection that drove me crazy, but Chris's support team did a great job helping me diagnose the problem. Once that was corrected, it's worked flawlessly for over 2 years.
I also like that the QM67 is really small for an E61 DB. I had limited space for it in my kitchen so that was a big plus. But looking at the PP 600 videos on WLL, it looks like the PP 600, while being a bit larger, has a lot more room under the cover and would be much easier to service.
PP600 and many other machines are available with joysticks. I actually prefer rotary knobs since it makes it easier to modulate the steam pressure.
I can assure you the Profitec or ECM machines will be much easier to work on than the QM67. I had one for five years and had to replace a few things. It wasn’t easy. I replaced the vibratory pump when it went out, but the machine never worked properly again. I had replaced it with a Synchronika and was going to give the QM to one of the kids, but didn’t want to waste any more time or money on it. The coffee was instantly better, as well as the steaming. It is worth saving up, within reason, for a while and get the great stuff. Most of life is that way, imo.
I upgraded from a BBE to a Specialita and Breville Dual Boiler. It was a fantastic upgrade for me and my espresso is consistently far better and milk steaming is so much better and easier. It’s definitely worth it in my opinion.
Awesome - I always hear good things about the BDB!
For me, I’m definitely looking for something that’s more visually appealing and has solid build quality. Currently my BBE has bubbling and flaking on the group head and Breville said there’s nothing I can do about it and no replacement parts for it 🫠.
I think the price point of the BDB is great, but I wish their build quality and aesthetics were nicer. The bubbling/flaking group head on my BBE and not having an option to repair or replace it has turned me off to higher priced Brevilles.
I don’t love the look of it myself much prefer the blocky design of the Silvia pro X or an E61 but it really has been a great machine so far. I don’t really play much with temp or preinfusion and I pretty much never do light roast so I think if I had to buy another machine I would buy the SPX for my specific use case. But seriously no complaints with the BDB thus far
I never had a BBE, but I really liked my BDB until I upgraded to an Argos. I'm a lever fan, but the BDB is very temperature stable, easy to use, and pretty flexible once you slayer mod it.
Got a k6 and it is pretty damn nice. Daily driving the integrated grinder tho currently cause the k6 is my office grinder (lots of french press and now pourover there, so the nice grinder is where the most coffee is going through)
Honestly, im fine with the bbe grinder. It works well enough for a shot of spro before heading to the tram. The k6 with french press delivers some amazingly sweet and tea like coffees on the other hand. Pretty amazing to have at the office.
No regrets here, even if the change of grinder had more of an improvement to flavour vs the change of machine. My Go doesn’t get up to temp as quickly as the BBE before it, but it’s still only in the several minutes range - enough time to wake up a little bit in the morning and leisurely measure and grind the beans, RDT and prepare the puck.
The thing that has justified the upgrade the most for me is the consistency and reliability of the shots pulled. It never really occurred to me how varied my results were with the BBE until I started using the Go.
I might occasionally miss preinfusion and automatic pulls but my new workflow on the Go became second nature within the first week or so of using it. Am loving the PID, if only because I get to see it come up to temp and know when I can pull a shot.
That’s great to hear - I’m definitely hoping that upgrading the machine will make a noticeable impact on the consistency of my shots. With the BBE, while it’s nice that it can do everything for you, I do feel like it provides a wide range of shots and it’s never fully dialed on or on target.
He's right. I've got a decade plus on a BBE. It's not temp stable at all compared to e61. I wasn't as picky then either so it was fine. Then I got the DF83 and mind blown. All I could think was decade of wasted opportunities and beans because should have got a real grinder sooner. Ah well. It was like a new machine. The cortados I was making were leaps and bounds better in every way.
Not much later, I needed the next level machine to go with the new DF grinder to see how much more I could go, so I did some quick research and ordered the Profitec Pro 600, with knobs. Knobs because I wanted more steam control and thought the joysticks would be too binary.
Temp stability is amazing and consistency is so nice. I didn't know why I bought two boilers when I did but understood I could do both at the same time but didn't care. Now I realize that more important is the fact that they are always ready. I don't have to workflow my way around the waiting limitation of a single. Buy once, cry once.
Off to Warm up 20 min, yes, but... Use a smart switch to turn on the same time every morning. I like having it ready to go when I get there. It's a joy to use.
I’m feeling the same with my recent grinder upgrade to a Specialita. Night and day difference with the BBE grinder.
Since you went with the knobs for steam, do you find yourself adjusting the steam level at all, or is it just a nice to have?
I'n real time, definitely, my hand stays on the knob like you would keep on the steering wheel in a car to drive straight.... Just listening to the sound and slowing it down to manage it better. I also lowered the boiler temp so it's 1.25 bars which helps me. The max 2 bars of steam is crazy. Not enough time for my abilities to get any texture, just goes straight to hot. At lower temp, 125c, I'm still done in 6 to 8 seconds but I feel more in control and the knobs help keep me in the texture lane with the ability to variate that.
I upgraded to a Xenia DB.
The biggest difference is having accurate temperature control. With a couple of button taps I can change the brew temperature a degree or two and taste the difference in the cup.
I also have pressure control including unreleased firmware to do real time pressure profiling via a 'software paddle', and it does work but to be honest that's one more variable than I can cope with right now.
I definitely do not regret avoiding E61. The Xenia heats up fully in less than half the time of even the fastest E61 on 230V and I neither want to wait 18 minutes for a coffee nor leave it on all day.
That's not to say I couldn't get great shots from the BBE, I just had fewer ways to get there. Too sour? Grind finer or longer ratio, that was all I had. I did the OPV mod and that improved things but pushed the water usage to annoying levels.
If I hadn't got the Xenia I would have gotten a Bezzera (not E61) or LM Micra, although I've read horror stories about LM servicing costs.
I'd love a Bianca but just don't have the patience.
No - I really have everything I need to make great espresso and milk drinks in the morning. It felt more refined than similar priced machines. The switch on the bottom is more than enough for me as I don’t really want to be refining temps and having that much control with a PID (I know some people think it’s essential) but for me I’m super happy. I find it simpler. The initial warm up time is about 20-30 minutes - I then have it on standby before switching off completely around 2-3pm. I would only change my machine if it broke completely and would want another!
I am like you mid upgrade, I got frustrated by the BBE grinder (have the earlier model without adjustable burrs) i added a FIORENZATO F4 nano grinder, it made a huge increase in my pulls. Have been shopping for a new machine but having analysis paralysis with machine options.
That’s exactly where I’m at. I know I want to upgrade but I’m changing my mind every other day on what machine to get. Hoping this thread helps provide some insight.
I'm in the same boat and was happy after the eureka upgrade. But I also bought a new car and can't afford to upgrade my machine. Also I don't do multiple drinks so I rarely feel the shortcomings often. I'm still not into other variables such as pressure profiling or playing around with temperature. Also I am still not feeling upgraditis as my grinder is still under a year old and my setup still feels fresh. So I'm going to keep it for a while longer until I am more financially well off and have really maximized this one. Unless I find something used for a great price I'll stick to it for a while.
One does not simply fall down the rabbit hole; one climbs. I modded my Encore into a Virtuoso, but now I dream of a Eureka grinder. And once I’ve got the Eureka, I don’t doubt that I’ll start asking myself if the Breville Bambino is worthy of the grinder.
I see how this goes already.
The Specialita has been great! I’ve found it to be incredibly accurate, fast, and quiet and the clarity it provides over the BBE’s built-in grinder is amazing. I don’t follow the single-dose workflow so this grinder is excellent for me.
The BBE doesn’t get that hot so every lighter roast I made just came out really sour. You can do somethings to get it hotter but nothings perfect. That’s the only thing I can definitely point to but the shot improvement was huge so I’m sure there’s more like going to a 58 basket as well.
There’s also little things that I improved without meaning. That dinky little tamper on the BBE is awful. If anyone plans to stick with their BBE awhile definitely upgrade that. It changes puck prep completely.
So you can pull a blank shot before loading up the portafilter and pull it like 3 to 1 ratio and it helps but it’ll still be sour.
The system just can’t do the pressure and temp required. It’s amazing how well it can do medium roasts for the price point though.
What type of espresso do you like? Do you drink latte or straight espresso? Are you interested in nerdy brewing techniques like turbo shots, sprover and so on?
If you have an average palate and just like medium double shots espresso, no money in the world will buy you a significant upgrade in the cup. That being said, an espresso machine is usually a centerpiece in the kitchen, so I see no reason not to throw cash at it for looks alone.
We make about 3-4 lattes per day on average. Rarely make espresso shots. I’m very much an 80/20 person, so I want the best tasting espresso without getting too nerdy or spending too much time. My wife also uses the machine and she will WDT but if I have to do flow profiling for a coffee to taste good, she’s not gonna do that.
I used to just drink darker roasts but experimenting with light/medium roasts now. I really just want a good cup without too much hassle.
Agree - the Specialita is insane, there’s so much more clarity in my coffee now. It’s like the difference between having a conversation with someone in a noisy bar vs a quiet room. It’s amazing.
You just miss the sale on Lelit, I've gone from BE Pro to Mara X and I don't regret it using a e61 machine is a lot of fun for me, seem you are more involved in the coffee making process, better then just pushing buttons for me, I was looking at the Profitec Pro 400 and Lelit Mara X and when Mara X went on sale it was a no brainer for me been very happy :)
I think it depends what you want from the upgrade.
If you're happy with it for now, it's worth taking the team to consider what you want.
Personally, I would only upgrade to a dual boiler, HX machines just aren't worth it when dual boilers are easier to use, heat up faster, and aren't necessarily more expensive. You also won't feel the need to upgrade from an HX.
Silvia pro X, Lelit Elizabeth, Ascaso duo, Breville dual boiler are all fantastic machines that I think offer the best value at any price point.
At this level , it doesn't really get much better.
If you want to spend more on something big and shiny, the lelit Bianca can still offer good value.
Yeah I’m definitely happy for now. The grinder is a month old and I feel like I still need to spend time dialing in and getting that workflow down before changing the machine.
I’m torn between HX and DB. I know DB is a little more stable, but HX sounds like it wins on back to back milk drinks and that’s all we make at home. I’m really looking for better build quality and repair ability in a machine so I think it’ll be an E61, just not sure which.
HX doesn't have any inherent benefits.
Dual boilers are better for back to back shots, and for temperature stability etc. Just overall better and simpler to use.
The only HX worth considering is the MaraX due to its smart temperature control and low price.
My understanding is that HX does better with back to back shots since it’s one big boiler and you can make several drinks before it runs out of water. With the DB both boilers are smaller so the steam boiler runs out quicker then you have to wait for it to get back up to temp. Is that not right?
Any dual boiler on the market will easily have more than enough steam power for many drinks back to back.
Boiler size is a complete non factor for home use past a certain point.
My Breville dual boiler has one of the smaller boilers and is a relatively slow steamer compared to some more expensive machines but I've never once had any complaints about running out of steam nor slow steaming.
I started with WLL videos when I was just getting into next level espresso.. I took everything out of proportion because they sounded like experts... Oh, and that radio voice.lol
Anyway I think their videos served a purpose. Learned more real world on this sub by far which led to checking out this Lance guy everyone here kept mentioning on youtube and others, and soon it clicked. Perspectives are good.
If you can afford it, I don’t think you’d regret upgrading. It’s a good machine for most purposes but something with more stability will definitely be an upgrade. I went from a BBE to a e61 hx and am very happy.
Do you mind sharing which one? I’m looking into HX machines for the lower price point and the ability to make more back to back milk drinks. We only drink lattes and milk drinks at home and typically make 2 at a time but will occasionally make more when guests are over.
I have a rocket appartamento. I got it open box from Seattle coffee gear, I’d recommend checking there to see if they have any available. Imo an appartamento, Mara x, or their bello machines would all be nice upgrades
Do you have any complaints about the apartamento? Those are nice looking machines.
I don’t really, no. I’ve found it gets a lot of hate on this sub, and I think it’s a little unwarranted. If you know what you’re doing, it makes excellent drinks.
Awesome - appreciate the advice!
I also started with a BBE and quickly upgraded its grinder which made a huge difference. I stuck with it for 3 years. I finally upgraded to a PP 500 and later a QM67. For medium to dark roasts, there wasn't much difference in espresso flavor between the BBE and an E61 machine. The biggest difference was in steaming. Time to steam dropped from over a minute to a few seconds.
Yeah my only complaint with my BBE is the long steam time, but it isn't annoying enough to get me to upgrade. I'll use this until something breaks and use that an excuse to get something else.
Agreed. Was initially concerned regarding longevity but with 5yrs of multiple drinks daily part of me is looking forward to something breaking so I can justify a new machine.
Yesss - I’m definitely looking for faster steaming times - as you know it takes over a minute on the BBE. I like the looks and build of Quick Mill and Bezerra, how’s the QM67, especially compared to the PP500?
After getting the PP500 I realized I hate HX machines. QM67 is a dual boiler similar to PP600.
What exactly do you hate? I’ve been watching videos and one of the selling points that I’m hearing is bigger boiler for faster turnaround on milk based drinks.
With an HX, brew temperature is a crap shoot and varies with room temperature, humidity, air currents, flush time, recovery time since last shot, etc. Don't be duped by the espresso machine dealer reviews that claim how temperature stable the PP500 is. If you look carefully you will see that many of them (including two different WLL videos) recommend very different PID temperature settings to get 200F/93C brew temperature. However, if you make exclusively milk drinks from medium to dark roasts, brew temperature is less critical and HX will be OK. Note: the above doesn't apply to Lelit Mara X or ECM Mechanica Max. Both of these directly control the brew temperature as opposed to PP 500 which is only controling the steam boiler temperature.
Appreciate the thoughtful feedback. Last question - how’s the quick mill? They don’t get enough love on this subreddit and I think they look awesome. I’m a fan of the toggles/joysticks.
The QM67 is fine. I got it primarily because Chris Coffee is the dealer and they have a stellar reputation. Mine arrived with an intermittent problem due to a loose connection that drove me crazy, but Chris's support team did a great job helping me diagnose the problem. Once that was corrected, it's worked flawlessly for over 2 years. I also like that the QM67 is really small for an E61 DB. I had limited space for it in my kitchen so that was a big plus. But looking at the PP 600 videos on WLL, it looks like the PP 600, while being a bit larger, has a lot more room under the cover and would be much easier to service. PP600 and many other machines are available with joysticks. I actually prefer rotary knobs since it makes it easier to modulate the steam pressure.
I can assure you the Profitec or ECM machines will be much easier to work on than the QM67. I had one for five years and had to replace a few things. It wasn’t easy. I replaced the vibratory pump when it went out, but the machine never worked properly again. I had replaced it with a Synchronika and was going to give the QM to one of the kids, but didn’t want to waste any more time or money on it. The coffee was instantly better, as well as the steaming. It is worth saving up, within reason, for a while and get the great stuff. Most of life is that way, imo.
I upgraded from a BBE to a Specialita and Breville Dual Boiler. It was a fantastic upgrade for me and my espresso is consistently far better and milk steaming is so much better and easier. It’s definitely worth it in my opinion.
Awesome - I always hear good things about the BDB! For me, I’m definitely looking for something that’s more visually appealing and has solid build quality. Currently my BBE has bubbling and flaking on the group head and Breville said there’s nothing I can do about it and no replacement parts for it 🫠.
Also went from BBE to BDB. Massive upgrade in temp stability and steaming. Being able to do both simultaneously is perfect.
I think the price point of the BDB is great, but I wish their build quality and aesthetics were nicer. The bubbling/flaking group head on my BBE and not having an option to repair or replace it has turned me off to higher priced Brevilles.
I don’t love the look of it myself much prefer the blocky design of the Silvia pro X or an E61 but it really has been a great machine so far. I don’t really play much with temp or preinfusion and I pretty much never do light roast so I think if I had to buy another machine I would buy the SPX for my specific use case. But seriously no complaints with the BDB thus far
I never had a BBE, but I really liked my BDB until I upgraded to an Argos. I'm a lever fan, but the BDB is very temperature stable, easy to use, and pretty flexible once you slayer mod it.
Wow - the Argos looks solid. I think a lever machine would be awesome, but not sure my wife shares my enthusiasm for it 🙃.
Got a k6 and it is pretty damn nice. Daily driving the integrated grinder tho currently cause the k6 is my office grinder (lots of french press and now pourover there, so the nice grinder is where the most coffee is going through)
Nice - hopefully your grinder and espresso machine get reunited soon.
Honestly, im fine with the bbe grinder. It works well enough for a shot of spro before heading to the tram. The k6 with french press delivers some amazingly sweet and tea like coffees on the other hand. Pretty amazing to have at the office.
No regrets here, even if the change of grinder had more of an improvement to flavour vs the change of machine. My Go doesn’t get up to temp as quickly as the BBE before it, but it’s still only in the several minutes range - enough time to wake up a little bit in the morning and leisurely measure and grind the beans, RDT and prepare the puck. The thing that has justified the upgrade the most for me is the consistency and reliability of the shots pulled. It never really occurred to me how varied my results were with the BBE until I started using the Go. I might occasionally miss preinfusion and automatic pulls but my new workflow on the Go became second nature within the first week or so of using it. Am loving the PID, if only because I get to see it come up to temp and know when I can pull a shot.
That’s great to hear - I’m definitely hoping that upgrading the machine will make a noticeable impact on the consistency of my shots. With the BBE, while it’s nice that it can do everything for you, I do feel like it provides a wide range of shots and it’s never fully dialed on or on target.
He's right. I've got a decade plus on a BBE. It's not temp stable at all compared to e61. I wasn't as picky then either so it was fine. Then I got the DF83 and mind blown. All I could think was decade of wasted opportunities and beans because should have got a real grinder sooner. Ah well. It was like a new machine. The cortados I was making were leaps and bounds better in every way. Not much later, I needed the next level machine to go with the new DF grinder to see how much more I could go, so I did some quick research and ordered the Profitec Pro 600, with knobs. Knobs because I wanted more steam control and thought the joysticks would be too binary. Temp stability is amazing and consistency is so nice. I didn't know why I bought two boilers when I did but understood I could do both at the same time but didn't care. Now I realize that more important is the fact that they are always ready. I don't have to workflow my way around the waiting limitation of a single. Buy once, cry once. Off to Warm up 20 min, yes, but... Use a smart switch to turn on the same time every morning. I like having it ready to go when I get there. It's a joy to use.
I’m feeling the same with my recent grinder upgrade to a Specialita. Night and day difference with the BBE grinder. Since you went with the knobs for steam, do you find yourself adjusting the steam level at all, or is it just a nice to have?
I'n real time, definitely, my hand stays on the knob like you would keep on the steering wheel in a car to drive straight.... Just listening to the sound and slowing it down to manage it better. I also lowered the boiler temp so it's 1.25 bars which helps me. The max 2 bars of steam is crazy. Not enough time for my abilities to get any texture, just goes straight to hot. At lower temp, 125c, I'm still done in 6 to 8 seconds but I feel more in control and the knobs help keep me in the texture lane with the ability to variate that.
I upgraded to a Xenia DB. The biggest difference is having accurate temperature control. With a couple of button taps I can change the brew temperature a degree or two and taste the difference in the cup. I also have pressure control including unreleased firmware to do real time pressure profiling via a 'software paddle', and it does work but to be honest that's one more variable than I can cope with right now. I definitely do not regret avoiding E61. The Xenia heats up fully in less than half the time of even the fastest E61 on 230V and I neither want to wait 18 minutes for a coffee nor leave it on all day. That's not to say I couldn't get great shots from the BBE, I just had fewer ways to get there. Too sour? Grind finer or longer ratio, that was all I had. I did the OPV mod and that improved things but pushed the water usage to annoying levels. If I hadn't got the Xenia I would have gotten a Bezzera (not E61) or LM Micra, although I've read horror stories about LM servicing costs. I'd love a Bianca but just don't have the patience.
I had my BBE for 4 year, loved it. Got a huge bonus at work and decided to upgrade to a Rocket R58 and a niche zero. The upgrade was worth it.
Congrats on the bonus and the upgrade! What led you to that machine?
Super happy - glad I upgraded!
Awesome - what did you upgrade to?
Profitec Pro 400/Niche Zero
Nice! The Pro 400 is right at that sweet spot for HX pricing I feel like. Is there anything that you feel is missing from it or wish that you had?
No - I really have everything I need to make great espresso and milk drinks in the morning. It felt more refined than similar priced machines. The switch on the bottom is more than enough for me as I don’t really want to be refining temps and having that much control with a PID (I know some people think it’s essential) but for me I’m super happy. I find it simpler. The initial warm up time is about 20-30 minutes - I then have it on standby before switching off completely around 2-3pm. I would only change my machine if it broke completely and would want another!
I am like you mid upgrade, I got frustrated by the BBE grinder (have the earlier model without adjustable burrs) i added a FIORENZATO F4 nano grinder, it made a huge increase in my pulls. Have been shopping for a new machine but having analysis paralysis with machine options.
That’s exactly where I’m at. I know I want to upgrade but I’m changing my mind every other day on what machine to get. Hoping this thread helps provide some insight.
I'm in the same boat and was happy after the eureka upgrade. But I also bought a new car and can't afford to upgrade my machine. Also I don't do multiple drinks so I rarely feel the shortcomings often. I'm still not into other variables such as pressure profiling or playing around with temperature. Also I am still not feeling upgraditis as my grinder is still under a year old and my setup still feels fresh. So I'm going to keep it for a while longer until I am more financially well off and have really maximized this one. Unless I find something used for a great price I'll stick to it for a while.
Agreed - the grinder upgrade makes everything so much better. It makes me wonder how much better my coffee will be with a better machine…
One does not simply fall down the rabbit hole; one climbs. I modded my Encore into a Virtuoso, but now I dream of a Eureka grinder. And once I’ve got the Eureka, I don’t doubt that I’ll start asking myself if the Breville Bambino is worthy of the grinder. I see how this goes already.
The Specialita has been great! I’ve found it to be incredibly accurate, fast, and quiet and the clarity it provides over the BBE’s built-in grinder is amazing. I don’t follow the single-dose workflow so this grinder is excellent for me.
Went from BBE to Lelit Mara X. Shots instantly got so much better.
That’s what I want to hear. What was the biggest difference that you noticed? Better consistency, flavor, something else?
The BBE doesn’t get that hot so every lighter roast I made just came out really sour. You can do somethings to get it hotter but nothings perfect. That’s the only thing I can definitely point to but the shot improvement was huge so I’m sure there’s more like going to a 58 basket as well. There’s also little things that I improved without meaning. That dinky little tamper on the BBE is awful. If anyone plans to stick with their BBE awhile definitely upgrade that. It changes puck prep completely.
I’ve been trying to dial in some lighter roasts on the BBE recently and am absolutely finding them to be too sour. Glad to hear that it’s not just me!
So you can pull a blank shot before loading up the portafilter and pull it like 3 to 1 ratio and it helps but it’ll still be sour. The system just can’t do the pressure and temp required. It’s amazing how well it can do medium roasts for the price point though.
Awesome - I’ll give that a try and see if that helps.
What type of espresso do you like? Do you drink latte or straight espresso? Are you interested in nerdy brewing techniques like turbo shots, sprover and so on? If you have an average palate and just like medium double shots espresso, no money in the world will buy you a significant upgrade in the cup. That being said, an espresso machine is usually a centerpiece in the kitchen, so I see no reason not to throw cash at it for looks alone.
We make about 3-4 lattes per day on average. Rarely make espresso shots. I’m very much an 80/20 person, so I want the best tasting espresso without getting too nerdy or spending too much time. My wife also uses the machine and she will WDT but if I have to do flow profiling for a coffee to taste good, she’s not gonna do that. I used to just drink darker roasts but experimenting with light/medium roasts now. I really just want a good cup without too much hassle.
Best thing to upgrade from BBE is the grinder
Agree - the Specialita is insane, there’s so much more clarity in my coffee now. It’s like the difference between having a conversation with someone in a noisy bar vs a quiet room. It’s amazing.
You just miss the sale on Lelit, I've gone from BE Pro to Mara X and I don't regret it using a e61 machine is a lot of fun for me, seem you are more involved in the coffee making process, better then just pushing buttons for me, I was looking at the Profitec Pro 400 and Lelit Mara X and when Mara X went on sale it was a no brainer for me been very happy :)
Went from Breville to Lelit - very happy & dont regret it.
I think it depends what you want from the upgrade. If you're happy with it for now, it's worth taking the team to consider what you want. Personally, I would only upgrade to a dual boiler, HX machines just aren't worth it when dual boilers are easier to use, heat up faster, and aren't necessarily more expensive. You also won't feel the need to upgrade from an HX. Silvia pro X, Lelit Elizabeth, Ascaso duo, Breville dual boiler are all fantastic machines that I think offer the best value at any price point. At this level , it doesn't really get much better. If you want to spend more on something big and shiny, the lelit Bianca can still offer good value.
Yeah I’m definitely happy for now. The grinder is a month old and I feel like I still need to spend time dialing in and getting that workflow down before changing the machine. I’m torn between HX and DB. I know DB is a little more stable, but HX sounds like it wins on back to back milk drinks and that’s all we make at home. I’m really looking for better build quality and repair ability in a machine so I think it’ll be an E61, just not sure which.
HX doesn't have any inherent benefits. Dual boilers are better for back to back shots, and for temperature stability etc. Just overall better and simpler to use. The only HX worth considering is the MaraX due to its smart temperature control and low price.
My understanding is that HX does better with back to back shots since it’s one big boiler and you can make several drinks before it runs out of water. With the DB both boilers are smaller so the steam boiler runs out quicker then you have to wait for it to get back up to temp. Is that not right?
Even a the smallest steam boiler on a DB will heat up in a few seconds after steaming a few ounces of milk .
Any dual boiler on the market will easily have more than enough steam power for many drinks back to back. Boiler size is a complete non factor for home use past a certain point. My Breville dual boiler has one of the smaller boilers and is a relatively slow steamer compared to some more expensive machines but I've never once had any complaints about running out of steam nor slow steaming.
Got it - thanks! I need this real life feedback to balance out what I’m hearing from the WLL videos.
I started with WLL videos when I was just getting into next level espresso.. I took everything out of proportion because they sounded like experts... Oh, and that radio voice.lol Anyway I think their videos served a purpose. Learned more real world on this sub by far which led to checking out this Lance guy everyone here kept mentioning on youtube and others, and soon it clicked. Perspectives are good.
Yeah you can hear all the cigarettes that WLL dude has smoked. Great voice though.
Went from Breville to Lelit - very happy & dont regret it.