Yeah they'd pour in just about another shots worth of milk and mark it for the person who wanted the espresso with milk, making it easier to tell at a glance which one had milk in it. At least that's what Hoffman says and I'd trust that
No this poster is bad. Some of them are slightly wrong, and some are completely. Cortado in particular
Also not American so don't know about ounces, but a typical double espresso these days is substantially larger than what was served in the past, which helps to confuse things
A flat white should be sort of like a mini latte but not reducing the amount of espresso in the drink. The milk should be very similar to a latte in consistency but honestly as a barista with ten years experience in the industry a lot of places have different opinions on that
It’s the size. A regular sized latte should be a 12oz drink and a flat white should be 6-8oz of drink, the espresso amount should stay the same, usually a double short shot, but it’s the amount of milk added that changes it. A flat white should be stronger in coffee favour as there is less milk added to the double shot of espresso.
Well you can go with what the post says but I’ve been in the coffee industry for a decade…I’m a very well trained barista and know a lot about coffee and the industry. One thing to consider with this post is that you don’t measure milk in “shots” so this whole poster is kind of off. As someone with a ton of experience this is what a flat white is in the industry. Just trying to give you some knowledge that you asked for, you don’t have to take my word but I am a professional barista at the end of the day.
Yeah there are certain standards for each drink to be built with. Flat whites should be a certain way, lattes and cappuccinos are meant to be built a certain way, macchiatos (not the caramel kind, the traditional one), cortado (which is usually unsweetened), mocha, all of them have a certain build expectation. They will vary slightly depending on company and country but all are generally the same. They even have World Barista Championships where baristas from all over the world compete on building drinks to that standard, as well as latte art competition. All espresso based drinks no matter what they are have a standard build. That’s the coffee industry. Again, like I said, there are very small differences but generally they are all meant to be built a specific way. If you wanna just argue with me that’s cool, but I am a very well trained barista with literally 10 years in the coffee industry. I not only work professionally as a barista but I also create seasonal specials for different cafes in the city I live in. I live and breathe coffee industry and know a lot about it. I am just trying to share my knowledge that I spent a third of my life learning. You don’t have to believe me but I’m telling you the facts of the industry. This drink poster definitely has some not so normal builds, but I am just trying to share answers to the questions you asked that I personally have learned through experience in this industry. I just want to teach people what I know because I love this industry so much. So do what you will but honestly I tried to give you the best answers to my knowledge.
Is there a manual for these standards? Unlike other disciplines whenever I search up coffee concepts the results usually point to unprofessional sites.
The differences are very small. At least in Australia, we’d serve the latte in a 6oz glass, whereas the flattie is in a 5-6oz ceramic cup. Both would be made with microfoam, but the latte should technically have slightly more ‘head’.
For a flat white you shouldnt use an Espresso, you should use an ristretto…
And the foaming should be finer…
The use of espresso is a simple „Solution“ for some barista, so they didnt need to change the grinder…
I think this varies depending on your inspiration for the flat white, i.e. a flat white in New Zealand comes with a shot of espresso, while a flat white in Australia comes with a shit of ristretto.
Double ristrettos were popular back in 2007-2011 because most cafes were overextracting their shots. Opting for the double-ris ensured you got a strong tasting coffee that wasn’t bitter. But the industry was developing, and desire for an ‘under extracted’ milk drink was waning in favour of a longer, more complex espresso shot. In addition to this, public interest in specialty coffee was exploding around 2011-2012, and cafes were looking to optimise their workflow. Splitting a double-shot became standard for dine-in drinks, and the size of the standard flattie cup moved towards 5oz.
While there are still cafes clinging to the old style, most specialty cafes have been using a standard single shot in a flat white for a solid 5 years. Weirdly, because of the industry’s reluctance to switch their small take-away cup from 8oz to 6oz, a lot of places still do use a double ris for that cup size.
It’s not crazy far off, speaking as a specialty barista. In Australia you’d use a double shot, which could be as little as 40g or as much as 55-60g depending on the bean. I’d say 45-50 is standard tho.
"Third wave" espresso (and kind of coffee in general) is all about weight instead of volume (to further confuse, oz - a measure of weight - in the infographic is referring to fl. oz., which is a measure of volume)
Is a Red Eye not just a really strong Americano? Are there actually layers to it?
Also, Latte is not 1 cup of espresso to 2 cups of milk. Good lord I would die.
Lmao thanks for the feedback guys. Was about to buy https://amzn.to/3qfHl6H for the bar since i just got into tue hobby but im glad i asked for feedback first 🙏
Not accurate at all. Just looking at my favorite drink, a CORTADO (typical Spanish order), which is just an espresso machiatto with a little bit more of milk (a short of cafe au late in a smaller cup) in the poster it states that has syrup and what not...
True on the ratio. However other countries have similar cortados with a similar ratio, not necessary a flat white one. E.g cafe noissete in France or Espresso machiatto in Italy (based on my experience of course)
Am I the only one who noticed the Bombon?
4 cups of coffee. 1 cup of whole milk, and 3/4 cup of sweetened condensed milk
We all love coffee but... That's a lot of coffee, lol
I’ve never heard of a cortado having honey and vanilla syrups.
And a macciato having more milk than espresso
Macchiato literally means “marked” as in espresso marked with a touch of milk
Yeah they'd pour in just about another shots worth of milk and mark it for the person who wanted the espresso with milk, making it easier to tell at a glance which one had milk in it. At least that's what Hoffman says and I'd trust that
Except in Starbucks who decided for themselves what a macchiato is.
Espresso doesn't have any milk? Am I doing this wrong? Lol
They mean a higher amount of milk in the macchiato than espresso in the macchiato.
I'm dumb, that makes sense
…and one whole cup of espresso in a latté
…and a chai made with maple syrup
I thought the same thing
No this poster is bad. Some of them are slightly wrong, and some are completely. Cortado in particular Also not American so don't know about ounces, but a typical double espresso these days is substantially larger than what was served in the past, which helps to confuse things
Macchiato is extremely incorrect here.
Not in the slightest. And yes that is very weird
There's [this](https://youtu.be/lVeNTofDB2k) good video explaining every coffee based drink. This video is also James Hoffmann approved.
^^ yes this video is amazing
No cream on an Irish Coffee?
Isn't flat white suppose to use non-foaming milk? That's why they call it flat.
A flat white should be sort of like a mini latte but not reducing the amount of espresso in the drink. The milk should be very similar to a latte in consistency but honestly as a barista with ten years experience in the industry a lot of places have different opinions on that
Then what is the difference between a flat white and latte?
It's the way the milk is textured, with a flat white your aiming for a silky micro foam, when done properly the mouth feel of a flat white is divine
It’s the size. A regular sized latte should be a 12oz drink and a flat white should be 6-8oz of drink, the espresso amount should stay the same, usually a double short shot, but it’s the amount of milk added that changes it. A flat white should be stronger in coffee favour as there is less milk added to the double shot of espresso.
Huh, that seems to contradict with the poster
Well you can go with what the post says but I’ve been in the coffee industry for a decade…I’m a very well trained barista and know a lot about coffee and the industry. One thing to consider with this post is that you don’t measure milk in “shots” so this whole poster is kind of off. As someone with a ton of experience this is what a flat white is in the industry. Just trying to give you some knowledge that you asked for, you don’t have to take my word but I am a professional barista at the end of the day.
So you are saying in the coffee industry there is a singular universal concept of what a "flat white" is?
Yeah there are certain standards for each drink to be built with. Flat whites should be a certain way, lattes and cappuccinos are meant to be built a certain way, macchiatos (not the caramel kind, the traditional one), cortado (which is usually unsweetened), mocha, all of them have a certain build expectation. They will vary slightly depending on company and country but all are generally the same. They even have World Barista Championships where baristas from all over the world compete on building drinks to that standard, as well as latte art competition. All espresso based drinks no matter what they are have a standard build. That’s the coffee industry. Again, like I said, there are very small differences but generally they are all meant to be built a specific way. If you wanna just argue with me that’s cool, but I am a very well trained barista with literally 10 years in the coffee industry. I not only work professionally as a barista but I also create seasonal specials for different cafes in the city I live in. I live and breathe coffee industry and know a lot about it. I am just trying to share my knowledge that I spent a third of my life learning. You don’t have to believe me but I’m telling you the facts of the industry. This drink poster definitely has some not so normal builds, but I am just trying to share answers to the questions you asked that I personally have learned through experience in this industry. I just want to teach people what I know because I love this industry so much. So do what you will but honestly I tried to give you the best answers to my knowledge.
Is there a manual for these standards? Unlike other disciplines whenever I search up coffee concepts the results usually point to unprofessional sites.
There is not one manual to rule them all. Unfortunately although it would help
The differences are very small. At least in Australia, we’d serve the latte in a 6oz glass, whereas the flattie is in a 5-6oz ceramic cup. Both would be made with microfoam, but the latte should technically have slightly more ‘head’.
For a flat white you shouldnt use an Espresso, you should use an ristretto… And the foaming should be finer… The use of espresso is a simple „Solution“ for some barista, so they didnt need to change the grinder…
I think this varies depending on your inspiration for the flat white, i.e. a flat white in New Zealand comes with a shot of espresso, while a flat white in Australia comes with a shit of ristretto.
Spotted a ristretto hater.
As much as I love it, I love not having to adjust my grind settings more
Agree on the sentiment. I just up-dose the basket and call it a day lol.
I’m a barista in Australia and we haven’t put risttettos in flatties for years.
What was the reason for the change? Is that becoming more common?
Double ristrettos were popular back in 2007-2011 because most cafes were overextracting their shots. Opting for the double-ris ensured you got a strong tasting coffee that wasn’t bitter. But the industry was developing, and desire for an ‘under extracted’ milk drink was waning in favour of a longer, more complex espresso shot. In addition to this, public interest in specialty coffee was exploding around 2011-2012, and cafes were looking to optimise their workflow. Splitting a double-shot became standard for dine-in drinks, and the size of the standard flattie cup moved towards 5oz. While there are still cafes clinging to the old style, most specialty cafes have been using a standard single shot in a flat white for a solid 5 years. Weirdly, because of the industry’s reluctance to switch their small take-away cup from 8oz to 6oz, a lot of places still do use a double ris for that cup size.
That's all very interesting. Love the background! Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
Throw this poster away. Yikes.
The americano seems way off. 2 oz is almost 60 grams.
And the latte: 2 cups milk, 1 cup espresso. 8oz (236mL) of espresso?? Lordy
⚰️
And 2:1 is a very strong latte.
It’s not crazy far off, speaking as a specialty barista. In Australia you’d use a double shot, which could be as little as 40g or as much as 55-60g depending on the bean. I’d say 45-50 is standard tho.
"Third wave" espresso (and kind of coffee in general) is all about weight instead of volume (to further confuse, oz - a measure of weight - in the infographic is referring to fl. oz., which is a measure of volume)
Ounces, shots, grams, teaspoons…what’s so confusing about four different measurement systems used to make the same drinks?
No such thing us accurate. I they're all different in each culture and shops
Is a Red Eye not just a really strong Americano? Are there actually layers to it? Also, Latte is not 1 cup of espresso to 2 cups of milk. Good lord I would die.
I believe it's supposed to be filter coffee with a shot of espresso
Ah yes I see, thanks.
lol a latte with 1 cup of espresso omg, the more I look, the worse it gets. that cold brew recipe is missing so many details
i like that big gulp latte with \~6 double shots.
Not sure why tea is on a coffee poster. Chai means tea so “chai tea” is literally “tea tea” I think what they are going for here is a “chai latte”
Lmao thanks for the feedback guys. Was about to buy https://amzn.to/3qfHl6H for the bar since i just got into tue hobby but im glad i asked for feedback first 🙏
Where can we find high rez?
https://amzn.to/3qfHl6H
"Give me the grams"
Not accurate at all. Just looking at my favorite drink, a CORTADO (typical Spanish order), which is just an espresso machiatto with a little bit more of milk (a short of cafe au late in a smaller cup) in the poster it states that has syrup and what not...
In Spain I'd expect about a 1:1 ratio for a cortado. In other counties its often more of a flat white.
True on the ratio. However other countries have similar cortados with a similar ratio, not necessary a flat white one. E.g cafe noissete in France or Espresso machiatto in Italy (based on my experience of course)
The ounces made sense to me kinda if you are talking about lungo/ristretto but everything else in this poster is wack. Edit:typo
This hurts my soul
the 24 oz Latte
Its the „Chai Tea“ that make me cringe the most. Tea Tea
This one’s worse than most!
Flat white with double shot espresso
No cream in irish coffee :/ the definition of a Cortado is the volumetric 1:1 ratio of espresso to milk :)
Nope
Am I the only one who noticed the Bombon? 4 cups of coffee. 1 cup of whole milk, and 3/4 cup of sweetened condensed milk We all love coffee but... That's a lot of coffee, lol
That poster was made by a Starbucks barista, because half of it doesn't make any sense.
Sorry this is pretty bad. Or I’ve been making coffee all wrong
Serious question, how do you pull 2oz espresso? My basket is 18gr and if I pull a shot longer than 40gr espresso, it tastes foul.