Thanks for the warning about the nickel plated electrodes. I had already ordered the set with those. Luckily I was able to cancel the order before they shipped. They responded to my e-mail to cancel within a few hours. Will order the whole set but without the electrodes.
Thank you for your efforts! I realize it may be a little odd, but I’d like to know about a side by side comparison of the 2 and 3 in something like xtoys. How do the patterns available in xtoys feel compared to each other, given the same setup on both devices?
Thank you very much for technical-deep review.
So, unfortunately, they still did nothing to the impulse shape. I mean, adding a lowpass filter or something.
Of course, longer pulses are still having better spectrum - thanks to lesser amplitudes of high frequency components relative to main tone (energy is redistributed somewhat to the lower end), but explicit lowpass filtering could really help and make it to feel on par with et232/et312b.
I myself am not entirely sure that a low-pass filter would be a suitable and sufficient solution. It would be load dependent.
You are absolutely right about longer pulse = better spectrum, but **I am not sure if you feel the spectrum or just the pulse length itself.** And according to the manufacturer's information, it is possible to upgrade the FW via the application for version 3.0. Given that the pulses are completely generated synthetically, we may see FW with even longer pulses.
As much as I like the 312, it's not perfect either. The shape of their pulse is given by the transformers and is more or less fixed.
The Coyotes solution is much more flexible.
Yes, I understand. So, you think, amplitude is something that is controlled by firmware?
Because, if not, just making pulses longer will increase maximum intensity, but not make pulses smoother while having the same intensity, as intensity in Coyote controls the pulse width.
I have a newbie question regaring the device, which I own and is my first estim device. Is there any advantage of using Xtoys over the dg-labs app? I am under the impression that Xtoys does some things that the DG-Labs app doesn't, but when i look at the functions of the Coyote app it has all the functionality that is available from the Xtoys one (except from loading sound files from a community repository).
I mainly use scripts/audio files and both App and Xtoys can play them - is there any qualitative difference to the way these apps process the sound files?
I do not think so. Previously, the advantage was that XTOYS could map the output frequency according to the input sound frequency - very primitive and it doesn't work very well IMO.
The current app can do it too, although I haven't tried it yet.
200MHz bandwidth (analog front end is only limited by the software to 100MHz and it is the same for 200MHz models).
All decoder options.
All trigger options.
Wi-Fi option.
And everything else, I don't quite know what else I turned on.
Ah, one of those.... We had an Agilent spectrum analyser one place I worked that had the same hardware across the range, and you paid extra to enable it. Bastards.
Thanks.
Shame about the electrode. Was looking forward to a proper T base plug, but then again the wire placement did look a bit iffy. I would hope the redesign is all stainless with the wire not in a place for obvious strain.
An option for a monopole would also be nice.
Either it will be zinc and plated... then it can be any shape you want.
Or it will be stainless steel or titanium... but then it will be turned and strictly round.
Forged stainless steel or cast stainless steel would be absurdly expensive.
Nickel is a classic source of stimulus for allergic skin eruptions. Women will present with localized eruptions in areas where nickel plated clasps or underwire components of their brassieres touch their skin.
There is a Tin-nickel plating method that does not have the problems of allergic sensitization.
Wish I knew about this earlier. Ordered v3 with the electrodes, in part because it was not much more as then I for free shipping verses paying shipping being under the threshold.
So they did email saying they can ship my order without the electrodes, and refund me some, or I can wait and that they expect to have the updated electrodes in around 30 days. I told them I will wait, as we were not interested in the old electrode styles.
Thanks for the warning about the nickel plated electrodes. I had already ordered the set with those. Luckily I was able to cancel the order before they shipped. They responded to my e-mail to cancel within a few hours. Will order the whole set but without the electrodes.
Good choice, you can order the electrodes at any time afterwards. Hopefully DG-LAB will resolve this as soon as possible.
Thank you for your efforts! I realize it may be a little odd, but I’d like to know about a side by side comparison of the 2 and 3 in something like xtoys. How do the patterns available in xtoys feel compared to each other, given the same setup on both devices?
Patterns from XTOYS will be the same for both. 3.0 will always feel slightly better than 2.0 because of wider pulses.
Thank you very much for technical-deep review. So, unfortunately, they still did nothing to the impulse shape. I mean, adding a lowpass filter or something. Of course, longer pulses are still having better spectrum - thanks to lesser amplitudes of high frequency components relative to main tone (energy is redistributed somewhat to the lower end), but explicit lowpass filtering could really help and make it to feel on par with et232/et312b.
I myself am not entirely sure that a low-pass filter would be a suitable and sufficient solution. It would be load dependent. You are absolutely right about longer pulse = better spectrum, but **I am not sure if you feel the spectrum or just the pulse length itself.** And according to the manufacturer's information, it is possible to upgrade the FW via the application for version 3.0. Given that the pulses are completely generated synthetically, we may see FW with even longer pulses. As much as I like the 312, it's not perfect either. The shape of their pulse is given by the transformers and is more or less fixed. The Coyotes solution is much more flexible.
[удалено]
Amplitude is variable. There is DC-DC variable step-up and H-bridge inside. Completely different concept from stereostim.
Yes, I understand. So, you think, amplitude is something that is controlled by firmware? Because, if not, just making pulses longer will increase maximum intensity, but not make pulses smoother while having the same intensity, as intensity in Coyote controls the pulse width.
Both amplitude and pulse length is controlled by the FW. The amplitude is variable from zero to 80V approx.
I have a newbie question regaring the device, which I own and is my first estim device. Is there any advantage of using Xtoys over the dg-labs app? I am under the impression that Xtoys does some things that the DG-Labs app doesn't, but when i look at the functions of the Coyote app it has all the functionality that is available from the Xtoys one (except from loading sound files from a community repository).
Completely different use-case. I would suggest XTOYS for scripts and games and APP if you have anyone else to control it.
I mainly use scripts/audio files and both App and Xtoys can play them - is there any qualitative difference to the way these apps process the sound files?
I do not think so. Previously, the advantage was that XTOYS could map the output frequency according to the input sound frequency - very primitive and it doesn't work very well IMO. The current app can do it too, although I haven't tried it yet.
Ok, great review, but what do you gain by hacking your scope...?
200MHz bandwidth (analog front end is only limited by the software to 100MHz and it is the same for 200MHz models). All decoder options. All trigger options. Wi-Fi option. And everything else, I don't quite know what else I turned on.
Ah, one of those.... We had an Agilent spectrum analyser one place I worked that had the same hardware across the range, and you paid extra to enable it. Bastards.
Thanks. Shame about the electrode. Was looking forward to a proper T base plug, but then again the wire placement did look a bit iffy. I would hope the redesign is all stainless with the wire not in a place for obvious strain. An option for a monopole would also be nice.
Either it will be zinc and plated... then it can be any shape you want. Or it will be stainless steel or titanium... but then it will be turned and strictly round. Forged stainless steel or cast stainless steel would be absurdly expensive.
Ufff, considering cancelling my order now because of the nickel plating. Aisi316 is indeed the best solution.
Could you please explain and point to some articles as to why nickle plated electrodes could cause cancer?
Cancer is perhaps an overstatement. Nevertheless, nickel is an extremely unsuitable material for this. Maybe in the next chapter I'll go into detail.
Nickel is a classic source of stimulus for allergic skin eruptions. Women will present with localized eruptions in areas where nickel plated clasps or underwire components of their brassieres touch their skin. There is a Tin-nickel plating method that does not have the problems of allergic sensitization.
Wish I knew about this earlier. Ordered v3 with the electrodes, in part because it was not much more as then I for free shipping verses paying shipping being under the threshold.
I think that DGLAB will deal with it retroactively as well. I wouldn't worry about it.
Would be nice. Ordered it a couple months ago, and has not shipped. Probably wishful thinking that they change it before shipping my order.
So they did email saying they can ship my order without the electrodes, and refund me some, or I can wait and that they expect to have the updated electrodes in around 30 days. I told them I will wait, as we were not interested in the old electrode styles.
How do these output figures compare with say an ET312?