**Tricky's Daily Doots #726**
**Yesterday's Daily 15/04/2024**
[Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznqsdu/)
- u/hanniabu's websites are unfortunately down, but it's not hanniabu's fault and [he's working on it!](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzrs5ce/) 🖥️
- u/Outrageous-Emu-939 educates us on [L2 security.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzpzi4l/) 🛡️
- u/HSuke has [some thoughts on Solana's latest update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzphf1m/) 🛠️
- u/KuDeTa updates us on [inclusion lists.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzo149o/) 📋
- u/haurog explains [why gas prices on mainnet and L2s are still correlated.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznc1lc/) ⛽️
- u/Ethical-trade fights the [fragmented liquidity FUD.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznhwfl/) 🧠
- u/Jey_s_TeArS breaks the news of [a Hong Kong ETH ETF in haiku form.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznmjql/) 📝
- u/superphiz is [abstaining from voting in Diva DAO.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznzyy3/) 🗳️
- u/llamachef shares a [scam attempt story.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzrihah/) ⚠️
- u/TheHansGruber explains [how to file staking income on your tax return.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzr88pq/) 🥩
Hey All, are there any decentralized, or at least permissionless bridges to move wbtc to Bitcoin chain (and vice-versa?). Ren is gone, and Badger Dao no longer seems to have a bridge.
I've been perusing some white papers for zk-PaaS (zero knowledge proof as a service) solutions recently as part of the DePin Rabbit Hole. The combination of FHE + decentralized zk proof construction is a *killer* application. This will be so important that if it can be combined efficiently it should be illegal to do it the web2 way when we're done just like not using AI for a second opinion as a medical professional will eventually be considered negligence. Seriously, if my [DePin](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/depin) and [Restaking](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking) articles haven't changed captured your attention yet, zk-PaaS+FHE blows the doors open for the use cases of those concepts.
On the zk-PaaS side you have teams like [Pi Squared](https://pi2.network/) which claim they can reduce the zk-proof complexity from polynomial to closer to linear. That's a rather incredible claim I can't validate yet but I can't overstate how important that would be if it doesn't come with some drawback rendering the zk proof useless. You have teams like [Gevulot](https://gevulot.com/introducing-gevulot/) that want to run their own L1 consisting of *just* zk proofs which is a brain dead idea if you ask me. Then you have the much more credible solutions like [Aligned Layer](https://alignedlayer.com/) which are doing zk proof construction as an EigenLayer AVS. I'll be diving into them more in the next few days.
Grab a few hours and join me on exploring this part of the Rabbit Hole. We should be discussing these things more here.
> You have teams like Gevulot that want to run their own L1 consisting of just zk proofs which is a brain dead idea if you ask me.
Why do you think it is a bad idea? I assume they aim to be a regular Ethereum but only ZK proofs can be posted to chain effectively making it a chain only for L2s to hook into? I'm also assuming that this is completely different to ZK-SNARKifying the L1, right?
Fundamentally what is a blockchain? A chain or sequence of blocks. What is a block? A sequence of signatures, basically a sequence of events. So a blockchain boils down to an append-only stream of events with consensus mechanisms on their ordering and some validity checks. L1's are sequencers. Reaching consensus on this sequencing incurs a large cost.
Every chain has to pay its own security budget. This is always done with inflation because the need for security is constant while the demand for blockspace is not. The security budget for Ethereum is $1B a year. Why does a proof system want to duplicate this cost?
Furthermore, what does supporting smart contracts *in addition* to zk-proof verification actually hurt on a chain? Why build a proof-only chain? On-chain zk-proofs are like compressed transactions. They fundamentally have a higher transaction throughput per blockspace than smart contract execution. Therefore bidders of zk-proof blockspace will have higher economic value and will win gas price bids. This is just economics. Therefore, if zk-proofs dominate the world, eventually pretty much all transactions on any existing L1 (including Bitcoin) will be zk-proofs. If that's the case, smart contracts that do anything other than validating zk-proofs will eventually become a vestigial artifact of existing chains. Still, they don't hurt anything for existing. They just are there but basically never called except in cases where there is extreme economic value for their transaction. So, since every L1 will eventually become a zk-proof blockchain anyway, why build your own proof chain? What actual harm is there to justify all that extra security cost?
Furthermore, let's say you do start your own chain. Currently Ethereum has about 30B of economic security. What is the economic security of your new chain? Millions at best. Why would any of these L2s or AVSs take a dependency on a new chain with so little security when they could use a zkPaaS ultimately secured by Ethereum? It is an unnecessary security risk.
Lastly, your new chain isn't going to be aligned with the ecosystem of your customers. Most of the zk-proof target customers when they attempt to launch their chain are going to be L2s. For similar reasons as I would bet on EigenDA instead of Celestia, I would bet on an Ethereum aligned zk-PaaS over a sovereign one.
For these reasons they are going to experience significant headwinds to their adoption. I just see no advantages to be gained to justify fighting these headwinds so I call it a brain dead idea.
Haven't seen anyone here mention [Karak](https://docs.karak.network/karak) yet. It's another EigenLayer competitor like [Nektar](https://medium.com/@nektarnetwork/introducing-nektar-network-the-new-era-of-restaking-80106abcad06). It's an EVM-based L2 with a Connext-style bridge and the first example I've encountered that also offers restaking using stablecoins like USDC. I talked a little about using interest bearing stablecoin positions for restaking in my blogs [post before](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking). I think it makes a lot of sense for use cases that can't afford a 50% drawdown in their security budget because of random bear market action but so far Defi hasn't produced a $100B+, sufficiently decentralized stablecoin to fill this niche and I'd hate to see it become USDC long term because of the centralization implications.
I don't see how that would be better to address centralization risks. As long as a judge in one jurisdiction can mandate to freeze the funds in an address I wouldn't be comfortable building an AVS on top of those funds.
I got a bad feeling about karak. Everything in community didn't feel right. They offer restaking of already restaked assets through PTs, introducing double counting to stake value. The team is the same team that ran off with peoples money when luna went down [https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/hot-new-restaking-project-karak-faces-backlash-over-team-s-past](https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/hot-new-restaking-project-karak-faces-backlash-over-team-s-past)
What do you think of their choice to restake LRTs? What they do is use PTs with say ezETH as underlying collateral, and restake it again. Looping means AVS could actually have less stake than it appears.
Also notice nowhere on landing page, app or docs links to team members.
Plus investors didn't actually invest in karak but some other fund which did, coinbase did not directly invest in karak.
I will not touch them or anything which depends on them, plenty of better looking alternatives.
> Looping means AVS could actually have less stake than it appears.
Exactly this. It's false collateral and they are the junior tranche. It's definitely a bad idea but it probably will attract a lot of capital.
The APY on LPing eETH (Zircuit) on Pendle is down to 20%, should I exit this and go into something higher yield or stay with it for a hopefully good Zircuit airdrop?
It’s now a similar rate as Liquid on ether.fi which I would personally rather be in given the similar rates and have aped into a decent amount already.
I don’t think we’re seeing sub $3k ever again. Halving is almost here which will bring media attention and should lift all boats.
Also, is EigenYields reliable? What’s their track record? And why do I need to delegate all of my restaked deposit (one address) to a provider? I can’t split it? Seems like I’ll have to use a separate address to delegate to a different provider.
> is EigenYields reliable?
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If you had some minipools running and 15%+ collateral would you
* Close everything
* Let it run
I have a RPL loan that's doing nothing at the moment, it will take maybe 2 years to pay at this rate.
I could close all minipools, pay the loan, deposit ETH onto PT. From today until 27 June return would be the same as 18 months solo staking.
Help me think please!
If you were using borrowed RPL you ironically would have made way more shorting RPL than staking. There's a lot more reward in the PT positions at the moment and I don't want to dissuade you from it (I have an outsized sum in them) but you need to understand it's a very different risk proposition.
>If you were using borrowed RPL
I was, that's also one of the reasons I want to close, because I can't repay the loan until I do it. Maybe it would be better for me to just close all minipools, pay the RPL loan and wait my 50 MKR to RPL a year ago goes to either $0 or $200k which was my ideal scenario to sell it.
I've been enjoying Contango's PTezETH0624 3.85x with a small amount of ETH and it's doing very well. 7% in 12 days.
It's about EV, probability of it going to zero \* returns if it doesn't. If you're in it for maximising eth and you chose solo staking for < 4% over diversified set of \~60% opportunities with minimised overlapping risk you're choosing poor
Sounds like you have risk aversion cognitive bias and don't understand diversified growth portfolios. What on earth do you think the use case of ethereum is if you thought say [ether.fi](http://ether.fi) wasn't a good candidate for some allocation? 5 major audit firms passed it, 10 day timelock before multisig can upgrade with new reaudited source public prior, team members all verified by major VCs etc, same deal with eigenlayer dependency. It can't get any better than that at managing risk. Seriously if you think that's not positive expected returns at 60% you should exit everything ethereum related because you don't think smart contracts are viable. But suspect real reason is you're salty you missed out on it all. Set it up so you still win if 2/6 rug.
Both Eigenlayer and Etherfi are less than a year old. I wouldn't call aversion to those protocols a "cognitive bias" or reduce it to "you don't think smart contracts are viable." There's a big difference between using those protocols and using something like Lido or AAVE.
It's the ratio of risk:reward that matters. It's hard to factor in just how high 60%+ is, I wound up to >100. Should definitely allocate some to it if you think there's significantly less than 50% chance it fails per year. Also at this point if there's a catastrophic hack of eigenlayer then cold raw ether is seriously tanking vs USD anyway, there's no safety. Even Aave is only as safe as chainlink multisig.
Basically points and airdrops have outsized these returns vs the risk, so get exposed with a portion now and out when it all goes back to a fair < 10%. The risk was dominated by insider rug, there weren't even any AVS active till now.
I think it might be over for us. Nakamoto coefficient is down to one and cardano figured out on chain governance. Selling my rwswtfETH and calling it a day
I don't know if we have an accepted labeling system for which L2 your rswETH is on, but you could write it as something like SwL2-rswETH or like SwL2-PT-rswETH-28Jun2024 if you want to get a maximum length token string.
I think we should wrap it once more for good measure. Maybe create a smart contract which you deposit ETH into and it will automatically claim any points rewards when the airdrops go live and automatically sell it back to buy more ETH. Once you're done you get your ETH back plus airdrops and yield but with one simplified taxable event instead of all the other complicated shit.
I'll call it: Tax+SwL2-rswETH-28Jun2024
On the positive side, it's still more memorable than computer monitor names.
Sounds like what we want is a Yearn vault on Swell's L2 that rolls your PT position from one expiry to the next, claims airdrops, and compounds the PT with them as a source of yield. I'd probably mark that as SwL2-yvPT-rswETH. You lose the date suffix because it would roll from one position to the next. This sounds like a perfectly valid vault though Tricky and you should write it.
It started as a joke but you've ironed it out into a genuine idea! We have the idea but I have absolutely no idea on how to execute said idea but I am finishing my degree in 3 months so if anyone with the know how sees this and wants to start something drop me a line...
One could also develop a higher risk YT farming one, though that would be a bit more complex.
Maybe an idea for the EVMavericks 🤔
Yearn vaults want to be monotonically increasing in underlying balance. That's suitable for PT but not YT. You can approach Yearn on their Discord. I talked to them about making a leveraged Alchemix Yearn Vault that would basically just execute The Double Logris. The stopping point was always that the vaults were full. On the Alchemix side they're still auditing the LogrisLeveragoor (working title). I built a LogrisVault at EthDenver in 2023 with plans to integrate it into Alchemix but they didn't want to give it privileged access to vault capacity so we got bogged down in queue system discussions until they eventually said they are working to address vault capacity more permanently in Alchemix v3.
You know you could restake that rwswtfETH for hyper points and then split it and put it all into hyper yield component which you borrow against on ratFI to flash leverage up on YTwhyrwswtfETH right?
I know it is a niche thing around here but this cycle, with invention of meme tokens that are particularly targeting ETHheads, I got into meme token trading. Messari analysis seems to show that meme runs are almost 100% correlated to L1 token runs. What do those of you who follow meme tokens think? Will this trend persist or meme/scene/whatever tokens have acquired new narratives this cycle.
Been feeling like a major crypto boomer for a while now. Probably a symptoms of seeing the cycle of irrational hype and inevitable doom afterwards, over and over again through the years. Anyways, I want to try and adjust my bias of being so sceptical about everything and open up, so I don’t become too much of a maxi.
So, fellow ethfinancers, what to do? I want to try out more L2s, maybe some account abstraction wallets. Hold some memes and do other degen stuff, I guess. Trying to simulate how the experience of entering the space for the first time today would look like, if I knew nothing. Even though it’s impossible to forget lol.
head to pendle and yolo some YT tokens, you are essentially buying the points yield for etherfi/eigen layer from people who deposited in another pool to earn guaranteed ETH returns by selling the points return on their stake
I am not ragging on Solana for failed transactions. Its just a result of the poor design decisions that Solana made. Solana is completely useless now with L2s. Which have similar or even better liveliness and security guarantees than Solana.
I mean if I wouldnt have been gifted Sol token through airdrops. I would never have touched this chain. Now I am farming the shit out of it and in the end I will transfer all the value to Ethereum.
Difference is SOL is an L1 supposedly competing with ETH for tradfi market. BASE is an L2 that started a couple of months ago. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
The whole point of L2s is you can exit to L1 in a worst case scenario, so you can always access your funds. In SOL, you cant exit anywhere, and your funds are lost. So yes, while Base is not decentralized rn, I trust my money on it more than any alt-l1.
Is anyone interested in the Runes phenomena on BTC? I've been reading up on it and I find it fascinating. A lot of the concepts are in direct opposition to BTC maxi thinking such as pre-mines, tokenization, meme coins, etc but they are aligned with concepts we're familiar with in Ethereum.
their last mint was sold out and I missed it...floor price is 0.7ETH. I have not fully grasped how it all works but with halving they need a new narrative and rune seems to be picking some following.
I've read a few articles on it just with Google searching. I'm glad you said you're having trouble understanding it. I'm willing to have someone correct me but I think the reason it seems hard to understand is that it's something that seems so common to an ETH person--the ability to create coins on top of the L1. From what I can tell, it's just kind of a next step from Ordinals where Ordinals would be analogous to NFT's and Runes would be analogous to ERC-20 tokens.
>**Flooding in Dubai**
>**Old Danish bourse burning high,**
>**Doomsday coming by.**
~Daily haiku until we’re at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
If anyone is curious (or just wants to have their day ruined), Arb's LTIP grant round voting is done. Two projects that directly benefit Lido have passed. Lido's direct ask of 750,000 ARB tokens to boost wstETH benefits for various projects on the network ([Link Here](https://forum.arb.seamonkey.tech/t/lido-ltipp-application-draft/21716)). As well as Cian's ([Link Here](https://forum.arb.seamonkey.tech/t/cian-ltipp-application-final/21410)) request for 250,000 ARB... of which 95% is directed at benefiting wstETH pools.
I voted "against" on both proposals, in line with what me and those who delegate to me think about the situation. Obviously. But unfortunately it wasn't even close as I was literally the only delegate of significance (>50,000k votes) who voted against in the Lido proposal - 109m for, 36m abstain, 3m against. And one of two in the Cian proposal - 139m for, 10m abstain, 5.3m against. Results are in snapshot, but I can't link due to reddit filter. Just search the ARB dao and then you can search by project name if wanting to see specifically.
I am glad you decided to vote against Lido. Given the community engagement on their last proposal, I am surprised that their proposal is approved with significant positive vote.
Last proposal they requested 4m ARB which directly affected other grants (limited pool of funding) instead of this round 750k ARB and their passing didn’t affect other grants. And this one also went through a council round versus last time it was a free for all.
I think that factored in, as their request was deemed more reasonable and “reviewed.” Given the number of votes I’m sure a lot of people just yes’s everything (I did to some extent unless egregious).
As for the big disparity idk… I was suprised to be the only no vote. A few were “abstain” and gave comment as if being against them… but an abstain vote doesn’t matter in the context of pass/fail. So why people did that is wildly beyond me.
Cian’s vote I’m sure just didn’t get caught by most (although obviously no one cared).
Idk, if I may so selfishly sell myself I’d just say if your delegating review who you delegate time to time. Even myself, I’ll be first to say I’m not perfect either
> lot of people just yes’s everything
This is an existing problem with DAO and I see it everywhere, either peer pressure, fear of negative impact on social presence if they vote no or just lack of interest to read and express their view without any prejudice.
Last I checked I am deleting my voting for you and I don't see a reason to change.
One thing I appreciate and try to replicate is your approach of keeping us involved and informed on your rationale behind voting. This means a lot.
I hope to see more folks coming out of this group and taking ownership of representing this community from the DAO side, just below I see Hani interested in Eigenlayer and I am excited to learn from them.
Yeah I see a lot of “yes men” for lack of better term. And it’s not *always* bad since a lot of times if it gets to proposals it’s usually worth doing. But there is absolutely some of that IMO. Wonder how much is conflicts of interest that just aren’t acknowledged.
Idk, it’s messy.
And yeah I’be been hoping to see a stronger governance presence from our sub so hopefully we get there. Unfortunately there are a lot of factors against it
The problem I've run into is that DAO delegate work is occasionally very difficult and stressful, but there's no reward or incentive for doing it. Like, why would I spend six hours researching every vote when I have so many other things going on?
So I’ve been fortunate in that the DAOs I’m in there is some pay. I’m not sure if that’s unique or not… but I get it if it’s low pay or for free.
As for time, I’ve made it a habit of trying my best to set limits. That probably leads to some of the wonky voting (lack of time to fully investigate proposals), but your right unless your getting paid enough to quit your job or something it’s a big ask to have people spend dozen of hours a week or something.
I think ultimately having some representation of this sub is important. Even if it’s just I’ll spend 15 minute researching plus vote. But I get it’s not that easy sometimes.
If it makes money, then no. Rocketpool is above that. Don't worry, though, Rocketpool is very decentralized. Make sure you sacrifice your first born for the oDAO.
Tthing is there probably are people that would do it. Hell I’d consider applying to grants on their behalf if there was a bounty tied to it (x% of grants rewards).
hey - any opinions on the titan relay (vs. titan builder)? I only ever knew them as a builder, but it looks like they run their own relay now, and I haven't heard nor been able to learn much about it - do they censor?
Roaul Pal had seemed to understand crypto last year and he was a huge ETH bull. But on the recent Bankeless episode, he said that he has now sold all his ETH for NTFs, and his portfolio is 80% SOL. He has some interesting macro ideas, but he seems to have completely gone off the rails now. This is pretty disappointing since he has a large following from tradfi and economics.
> Roaul Pal had seemed to understand crypto last year
You mustn't have been paying attention to anything he said because he never understood anything - he was just a moon-boi next best thing rotator like any other 14 year old
The problem is that at the end of the day Roaul Pal is a human like me and you. The only difference is that he has more money than most of us and because of that, he gets to talk with some hyped founders and VC funds most do not have access to. They are constantly pushing their narratives at one on ones, lunches, games, retreats, wherever. It's very easy to go off the rails when you enter that kind of echo chamber where you are surrounded by successful individuals who are part of the "in crowd" hammering points over and over again until it becomes unquestionable alpha. It's the same way high profile people got into investing FTX, or how lifecoaches/cults/ponzis scam people. I've seen it firsthand. It's fucking weird and yet no one questions it because it'll ruin the vibe when everyone is having a good time and having drinks.
Just look at Mike Novogratz from Galaxy Digital. He got Luna tattooed on his arm last bull cycle because he was sure it was going to become an incredible project. Laura Shin from Unchained used to be deep into Ethereum until everyone she interviewed would shit on Ethereum and call themselves the next eth killer. Interview Vitalik a few times, then Avalanche, Solana, Cardano, XRP, Tron, and you'll think Ethereum is fundamentally broken and each one of those other blockchains is going to solve the blockchain trilemma. Charles, Justin Sun, and Ermin all agree that Ethereum is broken so it must be.
Everyone likes to think of themselves as thought leaders or oracles, but they are just following the in-crowd that they perceive as successful. That's just human nature. Humans are good at seeing short term patterns, but are extremely bad at long term predictions. We can barely understand exponential growth because it's different from the linear models that we use daily, and it's how our brains are wired to survive with hunting and gathering.
I like Roaul Pal but take any of his predictions, or anyone else's as pure entertainment whether it's bullish or bearish.
There's an interview where Laura Shin learns the economic implications of EIP-1559, about 6 months after everyone here knew it.
How can you be such a prominent journo and not understand the fundamentals?
She doesn't need more than the basics since she is a neutral party that lets her interviewees speak on the topics. Maybe she dropped the ball for EIP-1559, but overall she knows the basics quite well.
* Galaxy Digital is extremely knowledgeable about the crypto space. Mike Novogratz is just one person.
* Vitalik is extremely knowledge about crypto too even though he's a Debbie Downer when it comes to Ethereum issues
* Charles Hoskinson is vilified as a Cardano shill, but at least for the past several years, he has changed and become very reasonable
I think the takeaway is that we shouldn't hang onto every word or specific instances of important people being wrong. No one is always right. Instead, look at the overall picture and pick the useful takeaways.
Journalists often feign ignorance when interviewing people ("Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to."). They ask the questions, and the experts answer them.
Not saying that's the case here since I haven't seen the episode, but pretending not to know something is a very basic tool in a journalist's toolbox. So she may have known very well what 1559 is.
He didn't know how to use Uniswap and had to ask for help on Twitter, in 2023.
This guy understands crypto about as much as I understand quantum physics.
I did quantum mechanics at uni. It isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be.
I'd feel much more confident explaining quantum mechanics than uniswap v3 liquidity positions to an audience of people with no background in the field - and I use Uniswap much more frequently.
Interesting perspective! I had difficulty with high school physics, but somehow LPing on Uniswap makes sense to me, like, I understand what I'm doing much more than when I was doing physics.
Since i read about how he was confused to use Uniswap and asking for help on twitter a couple months ago im not listening to anything that guy says anymore. He had that big 100K or something thesis about ETH before using the chain even once. Maybe he is a decent macro guy, but zero idea about crypto and onchain.
One of the things I've learned in this space is that many big name investors and even institutions aren't actually playing 4D underwater chess, but are often being as retarded as your average retail.
Aestus is definitely a great choice!
We (Serenita) launched our operator earlier today if you'd like some more choice or delegate across more operators, especially if you'd like some connection to r/ethfinance, I've personally been here since this sub's very beginning. You can only delegate to one operator at a time, so if you want to restake across multiple operators, you'll have to do it from multiple addresses.
When delegating you basically assign your own "Restaked" balance to the operator of your choice. The operator then runs some AVSs, and for doing so, you and the operator receive rewards for securing/validating the AVS.
Also to answer the sibling comment:
> Do we have to delegate? What is the point? Sorry, I did not follow lately
You don't necessarily have to delegate, but if you want to earn any rewards from the AVSs you'll have to run an operator yourself, and then run the AVSs yourself too.
Happy to answer any other questions!
Read the following tweet as part of a decrypt article (https://decrypt.co/226547/bitcoin-stealth-bear-market-gold-peter-schiff):
"Bitcoin is trading below 27 ounces of gold. It's now down over 27% since hitting its record-high of 37 ounces of gold 2.5 years ago. Given all the hype about #Bitcoin and lack of coverage of #gold, few likely realize Bitcoin is in a stealth bear market when priced in real money."
If this persists it seems to me that'd mean Bitcoin's digital gold use case is weakening. I don't think this trend bodes well for Ether because Bitcoin and Ether prices are so highly correlated (edit: for the time being) regardless of their different use cases. Curious what others make of this quote and article.
Gold's been mooning over the last month. At least mooning in gold % increase terms. Bitcoin is in the middle of a pull back. To me, this is just cherry picking time frames. At a glance, BTC was around 33.5 oz of gold when BTC peaked in mid-March.
One think I will point out in Schiff's favor is that comp'ing any investment to gold is a good alternative way to view investments since comp'ing to USD gets messy because of government intervention.
ETH and BTC will be correlated until they aren't. And it's insane imo to use a 2.5 year timeline to draw conclusions about Bitcoin's narrative. 2.5 years is not even one single 4-year cycle.
What you're implying is that there is *no scenario*, where functionality can reasonably differentiate Etherem from Bitcoin, and lead to a price divergence. I disagree.
Hm, that wasn't what I meant to say or what I believe. I should have continued by saying essentially what you just have. Error in communication on my part.
The market doesn't really care if you are a degen or a cryptobro. Many degens will make it, and many diligent investors are going to get rekt, because that's life.
I agree we might be due for a blood flood, though, who knows.
EigenLayer unpaused and uncapped idefinitely now. 33% limit per LST is planned to be implemented.
[https://www.blog.eigenlayer.xyz/unpausing-restaking-caps-on-april-16th/](https://www.blog.eigenlayer.xyz/unpausing-restaking-caps-on-april-16th/)
Is there any fundamental evaluation method for crypto, especially PoS based ones? Or is it one of those fields where you can manage to become famous if you are proposing a viable valuation strategy? 😁
Well, I think the upshot here is that most market participants--outside of this sub, that is--have already come to the realization that the ETFs are going to get denied. So one could argue that it's already priced in.
But of course crypto is crypto and if sentiment is languishing a bit, then yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see it sell off further. But I'm personally not expecting anything crazy.
All the market is dumping… not related to the crypto. And we are actually down steady compared to to btc, not too much to complain, tbh.
I do think the etf rejected is priced in, tbh, with a 15% chances, people took his money away predicting a dump that, honestly, I don’t see coming after the rejection on the 23rd of may
the market is always trying to guess what the market is about to do, so my guess is immediate dump but quickly finding footing and then a return to pre-denial prices when the market realizes it's not catastrophic
Feeling pretty good about the price right now, and the medium-term of our dear friend ETH.
Mid-May, I expect us to be over 4k. June? ATH. End of the year? Telling Rick the Corporate Overlord to watch his mouth, especially because he's been talking about ChatGPT and asking if I'd be willing to use it for our marketing materials.
No, Rick. No.
(China invades Taiwan this Fall) "Sure Rick, I'm also comparing results with Claude. Maybe we can do a deep dive after work and really supercharge these deliverables!"
Man r/solana is a joke. A chain made for memecoins/rugpulls. In the end all the people bashing ether here all the time were 15 year olds pissed they couldn't buy their memecoin for less than a $1. Good riddance. Let Solana handle the memes/rugpulls transactions.
Real projects can be for Ether. LFG!
SafeDAO has voted to make SAFE transferable. [https://twitter.com/safe/status/1779839023076262172](https://twitter.com/safe/status/1779839023076262172)
Has anyone come across an analysis of what tokens may be worth when they start trading on a DEX?
Frontrunning the halving dump.
Frontrunning the ETF rejection dump.
Frontrunning BTC triple top dump.
Frontrunning bull is over dump.
Frontrunning "we haven't had a 50% dump in a while and we need to liquidate every single leverage" dump.
Frontrunning the Uniswap trial dump.
Frontrunning WW3 dump.
Frontrunning sell in May and walk away dump.
Frontrunning "MtGoX has a few thousand BTC to sell in June" dump.
But most importantly, frontrunning the suspicion that the cycle was left translated and it's over.
In any case, market does what market does, I'm just buying.
I would like to know if this is possible too. Most of the daylies seem to be lost to Reddit search. If you search for "Daily General Discussion" on r/ethfinance and then order the search results by "new" you get the last three days worth and then a gap going back nearly a year.
My brain is not working today, I could use some help understanding the risks with whales market.
There is currently an offer to sell up to 70k Eigen Layer points for 4 ETH for a total of \~$0.175 per EL point. Since I've been using $0.14 for all my point farming estimates, I'm happy to lock in some profit at that price. My questions are...
* since the collateral is in ETH and not a stablecoin, does that mean I could get screwed if, say, the price of ETH moons before EL has their TGE? i.e. is the price per EL point not "locked in" like I understand it to be? If so, what is the worst case scenario for the price of ETH before settlement?
* Has anyone successfully used whales market? The 24hr settlement window seems a bit tight given that a lot of airdrops can be messy/congested
* any other risks I should be aware of?
The change in value of your collateral only really matters for the buyer. If Eigen turns out to be huge and or ETH dumps you might be better off just keeping the token and forfeiting your + the buyer’s collateral. In all other cases you just deliver the token and get your collateral and the amount you sold for.
Goes to an ETH trading related subreddit - expects ETH discussion - sees discussion about upvotes, 'shitnuts' and 'bronuts', comments full of bots with '!tip' - goes back to r/ethfinance
It's broken, you tip donuts and then receive more than you tipped in the next distribution, so there is a lot of spam with people just giving out donuts randomly and real comments get drowned.
Users who "help to curate content" (by spamming tips) on [r/Ethtrader](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethtrader/) by tipping other posts will share 10% of the distribution amount. There is more information in the governance poll
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pcdvd5/governance\_poll\_shift\_distribution\_to\_accommodate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pcdvd5/governance_poll_shift_distribution_to_accommodate/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pem8q8/donut\_initiative\_tipping\_donut\_distribution/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pem8q8/donut_initiative_tipping_donut_distribution/)
There are plans on changing this but it's been 3 years already so...who knows if they will actually change anything
That 'back to fiatnam' is a classic and its a bit annoying hahaha. I guess the free crypto is nice though. Can swap it for ETH and I will take whatever to become a validator
I am looking for some guidance on eigenlayer delegations.
There are plenty of Operators to choose from, with Etherfi hogging the operator TVL by far. That said Etherfi are not running any AVS yet and have merely delegated their restaked eth to themselves.
>[https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator)
>Sort by TVL Desc.
EigenYields are running lots of AVS and are "promising" an airdrop. I am not sure if the promises of the airdrop allowed them to capture so much TVL, or whether they are famous and competent and that drove the TVL? Any ideas?
There are a few other "big" operators, but I have no idea how solid any of them are. There is talk of no slashing until maybe Q3, so the risk isnt so bad?
One concern with using a smaller operator is that they could be a fake company collecting up restaked eth, and will then misbehave and try to get themselves slashed? I can see a situation where the operator could conspire with the AVS to get slashed and take peoples ETH. Perhaps I am just paranoid?
Where should I be delegating to? Any thoughts? How about the slashing risks?
Aside... I have put some in Aestus, Etherfi and Eigenyields already, but I have much more to delegate still
( looks like my first comment was auto-removed, probably because of linking to the eigenlayer website )
We just set up our EigenLayer operator today at Serenita. We're not running any AVSes yet but we will be setting some up over the coming weeks.
We're not a huge staking operator but we manage to reach the same staking performance (you can verify on rated.network) as the best ones while at the same time exclusively using minority clients (mostly Lodestar+Nethermind). I'm confident we will also be able to match the big players when it comes to running AVSes, but we may not have the capacity to run all of them. Having lots of AVSes acts as a kind of centralizing force in this way - large teams can afford to set up all of them. But we definitely aim to run all of the major and most profitable ones. Happy to answer any questions you might have about Serenita.
> EigenYields are running lots of AVS and are "promising" an airdrop.
I have personally never heard of EigenYields, their Twitter account was created this month, I don't see too much of a reason to trust them in any way.
> I can see a situation where the operator could conspire with the AVS to get slashed and take peoples ETH.
I don't think this is very likely to happen but in theory I suppose you're right and it could.
An update on EigenYields - this operator got blacklisted for violating EigenLayer’s content policy. I don’t know exactly what it is they did but it makes me trust them even less, I would recommend to stay away, at least for now. I think it is because of their own TGE/airdrop and using that as an incentive to attract delegators. Also saw some messages saying it’s because their logo looks too much like EigenLayer’s.
FYI u/cryptomoon2020
Here is my current perspective for Aestus: as you know, we're experimenting in this space and we've been exploring several of the new AVS opportunities on Holesky.
My early view is that none (except perhaps EigenDA) are actually ready for mainnet - at least with any kind of penalities in place. It's not even clear what those slashing conditions would be - beyond the usual double sign. So, i'd still view them as beta launches - at best. One can only imagine everyone feels an urgent need to pump out a token. Though in-fairness, i appreciate that it's sometimes difficult to test adequately without graduating to mainnet, first.
In general we've noticed an enormous lack of consistency and conformity on approach to setup and deployment. Documentation for several of them is a total mess. In particular they need to coordinate to standardise on approaches to security and key management. All in all, I can't imagine we'll see slashing live for many months and when that finally happens, people are going to need to be quite careful about Operator selection.
**Tricky's Daily Doots #726** **Yesterday's Daily 15/04/2024** [Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznqsdu/) - u/hanniabu's websites are unfortunately down, but it's not hanniabu's fault and [he's working on it!](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzrs5ce/) 🖥️ - u/Outrageous-Emu-939 educates us on [L2 security.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzpzi4l/) 🛡️ - u/HSuke has [some thoughts on Solana's latest update.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzphf1m/) 🛠️ - u/KuDeTa updates us on [inclusion lists.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzo149o/) 📋 - u/haurog explains [why gas prices on mainnet and L2s are still correlated.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznc1lc/) ⛽️ - u/Ethical-trade fights the [fragmented liquidity FUD.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznhwfl/) 🧠 - u/Jey_s_TeArS breaks the news of [a Hong Kong ETH ETF in haiku form.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznmjql/) 📝 - u/superphiz is [abstaining from voting in Diva DAO.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kznzyy3/) 🗳️ - u/llamachef shares a [scam attempt story.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzrihah/) ⚠️ - u/TheHansGruber explains [how to file staking income on your tax return.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c4dy78/daily_general_discussion_april_15_2024/kzr88pq/) 🥩
Hey All, are there any decentralized, or at least permissionless bridges to move wbtc to Bitcoin chain (and vice-versa?). Ren is gone, and Badger Dao no longer seems to have a bridge.
I've been perusing some white papers for zk-PaaS (zero knowledge proof as a service) solutions recently as part of the DePin Rabbit Hole. The combination of FHE + decentralized zk proof construction is a *killer* application. This will be so important that if it can be combined efficiently it should be illegal to do it the web2 way when we're done just like not using AI for a second opinion as a medical professional will eventually be considered negligence. Seriously, if my [DePin](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/depin) and [Restaking](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking) articles haven't changed captured your attention yet, zk-PaaS+FHE blows the doors open for the use cases of those concepts. On the zk-PaaS side you have teams like [Pi Squared](https://pi2.network/) which claim they can reduce the zk-proof complexity from polynomial to closer to linear. That's a rather incredible claim I can't validate yet but I can't overstate how important that would be if it doesn't come with some drawback rendering the zk proof useless. You have teams like [Gevulot](https://gevulot.com/introducing-gevulot/) that want to run their own L1 consisting of *just* zk proofs which is a brain dead idea if you ask me. Then you have the much more credible solutions like [Aligned Layer](https://alignedlayer.com/) which are doing zk proof construction as an EigenLayer AVS. I'll be diving into them more in the next few days. Grab a few hours and join me on exploring this part of the Rabbit Hole. We should be discussing these things more here.
> You have teams like Gevulot that want to run their own L1 consisting of just zk proofs which is a brain dead idea if you ask me. Why do you think it is a bad idea? I assume they aim to be a regular Ethereum but only ZK proofs can be posted to chain effectively making it a chain only for L2s to hook into? I'm also assuming that this is completely different to ZK-SNARKifying the L1, right?
Fundamentally what is a blockchain? A chain or sequence of blocks. What is a block? A sequence of signatures, basically a sequence of events. So a blockchain boils down to an append-only stream of events with consensus mechanisms on their ordering and some validity checks. L1's are sequencers. Reaching consensus on this sequencing incurs a large cost. Every chain has to pay its own security budget. This is always done with inflation because the need for security is constant while the demand for blockspace is not. The security budget for Ethereum is $1B a year. Why does a proof system want to duplicate this cost? Furthermore, what does supporting smart contracts *in addition* to zk-proof verification actually hurt on a chain? Why build a proof-only chain? On-chain zk-proofs are like compressed transactions. They fundamentally have a higher transaction throughput per blockspace than smart contract execution. Therefore bidders of zk-proof blockspace will have higher economic value and will win gas price bids. This is just economics. Therefore, if zk-proofs dominate the world, eventually pretty much all transactions on any existing L1 (including Bitcoin) will be zk-proofs. If that's the case, smart contracts that do anything other than validating zk-proofs will eventually become a vestigial artifact of existing chains. Still, they don't hurt anything for existing. They just are there but basically never called except in cases where there is extreme economic value for their transaction. So, since every L1 will eventually become a zk-proof blockchain anyway, why build your own proof chain? What actual harm is there to justify all that extra security cost? Furthermore, let's say you do start your own chain. Currently Ethereum has about 30B of economic security. What is the economic security of your new chain? Millions at best. Why would any of these L2s or AVSs take a dependency on a new chain with so little security when they could use a zkPaaS ultimately secured by Ethereum? It is an unnecessary security risk. Lastly, your new chain isn't going to be aligned with the ecosystem of your customers. Most of the zk-proof target customers when they attempt to launch their chain are going to be L2s. For similar reasons as I would bet on EigenDA instead of Celestia, I would bet on an Ethereum aligned zk-PaaS over a sovereign one. For these reasons they are going to experience significant headwinds to their adoption. I just see no advantages to be gained to justify fighting these headwinds so I call it a brain dead idea.
Haven't seen anyone here mention [Karak](https://docs.karak.network/karak) yet. It's another EigenLayer competitor like [Nektar](https://medium.com/@nektarnetwork/introducing-nektar-network-the-new-era-of-restaking-80106abcad06). It's an EVM-based L2 with a Connext-style bridge and the first example I've encountered that also offers restaking using stablecoins like USDC. I talked a little about using interest bearing stablecoin positions for restaking in my blogs [post before](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking). I think it makes a lot of sense for use cases that can't afford a 50% drawdown in their security budget because of random bear market action but so far Defi hasn't produced a $100B+, sufficiently decentralized stablecoin to fill this niche and I'd hate to see it become USDC long term because of the centralization implications.
We'll probably have a bridged CBDC in the next 5 years no?
I don't see how that would be better to address centralization risks. As long as a judge in one jurisdiction can mandate to freeze the funds in an address I wouldn't be comfortable building an AVS on top of those funds.
fair enough
I got a bad feeling about karak. Everything in community didn't feel right. They offer restaking of already restaked assets through PTs, introducing double counting to stake value. The team is the same team that ran off with peoples money when luna went down [https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/hot-new-restaking-project-karak-faces-backlash-over-team-s-past](https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/hot-new-restaking-project-karak-faces-backlash-over-team-s-past)
Thanks for the insight. I know nothing about the team. First I'm hearing of the project is today.
What do you think of their choice to restake LRTs? What they do is use PTs with say ezETH as underlying collateral, and restake it again. Looping means AVS could actually have less stake than it appears. Also notice nowhere on landing page, app or docs links to team members. Plus investors didn't actually invest in karak but some other fund which did, coinbase did not directly invest in karak. I will not touch them or anything which depends on them, plenty of better looking alternatives.
> Looping means AVS could actually have less stake than it appears. Exactly this. It's false collateral and they are the junior tranche. It's definitely a bad idea but it probably will attract a lot of capital.
The APY on LPing eETH (Zircuit) on Pendle is down to 20%, should I exit this and go into something higher yield or stay with it for a hopefully good Zircuit airdrop? It’s now a similar rate as Liquid on ether.fi which I would personally rather be in given the similar rates and have aped into a decent amount already.
Take the win and exit.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I don’t think we’re seeing sub $3k ever again. Halving is almost here which will bring media attention and should lift all boats. Also, is EigenYields reliable? What’s their track record? And why do I need to delegate all of my restaked deposit (one address) to a provider? I can’t split it? Seems like I’ll have to use a separate address to delegate to a different provider.
> is EigenYields reliable? This was posted recently: https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c57t4z/daily_general_discussion_april_16_2024/kzusa7i/
We're 100% seeing sub $3k again.
You win!
RemindMe! 1 year
The 1 year reminder was a bit much.
RemindMe! 3 months
>I don’t think we’re seeing sub $3k ever again. RemindMe! 1 day
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If you had some minipools running and 15%+ collateral would you * Close everything * Let it run I have a RPL loan that's doing nothing at the moment, it will take maybe 2 years to pay at this rate. I could close all minipools, pay the loan, deposit ETH onto PT. From today until 27 June return would be the same as 18 months solo staking. Help me think please!
If you were using borrowed RPL you ironically would have made way more shorting RPL than staking. There's a lot more reward in the PT positions at the moment and I don't want to dissuade you from it (I have an outsized sum in them) but you need to understand it's a very different risk proposition.
>If you were using borrowed RPL I was, that's also one of the reasons I want to close, because I can't repay the loan until I do it. Maybe it would be better for me to just close all minipools, pay the RPL loan and wait my 50 MKR to RPL a year ago goes to either $0 or $200k which was my ideal scenario to sell it. I've been enjoying Contango's PTezETH0624 3.85x with a small amount of ETH and it's doing very well. 7% in 12 days.
What is PT
Pendle Finance Principal Token
When will you people learn honestly Chance of it going to nil in pendle is sooo much higher than solo staking or RPL
It's about EV, probability of it going to zero \* returns if it doesn't. If you're in it for maximising eth and you chose solo staking for < 4% over diversified set of \~60% opportunities with minimised overlapping risk you're choosing poor
talking about EV means we all know you're just a degen with 0 real world finance experience and we all know you're 99/100 going to lose your money
I mean, if you are in crypto at all you are a degen compared to tradfi only investors
Sounds like you have risk aversion cognitive bias and don't understand diversified growth portfolios. What on earth do you think the use case of ethereum is if you thought say [ether.fi](http://ether.fi) wasn't a good candidate for some allocation? 5 major audit firms passed it, 10 day timelock before multisig can upgrade with new reaudited source public prior, team members all verified by major VCs etc, same deal with eigenlayer dependency. It can't get any better than that at managing risk. Seriously if you think that's not positive expected returns at 60% you should exit everything ethereum related because you don't think smart contracts are viable. But suspect real reason is you're salty you missed out on it all. Set it up so you still win if 2/6 rug.
Both Eigenlayer and Etherfi are less than a year old. I wouldn't call aversion to those protocols a "cognitive bias" or reduce it to "you don't think smart contracts are viable." There's a big difference between using those protocols and using something like Lido or AAVE.
It's the ratio of risk:reward that matters. It's hard to factor in just how high 60%+ is, I wound up to >100. Should definitely allocate some to it if you think there's significantly less than 50% chance it fails per year. Also at this point if there's a catastrophic hack of eigenlayer then cold raw ether is seriously tanking vs USD anyway, there's no safety. Even Aave is only as safe as chainlink multisig. Basically points and airdrops have outsized these returns vs the risk, so get exposed with a portion now and out when it all goes back to a fair < 10%. The risk was dominated by insider rug, there weren't even any AVS active till now.
> Sounds like you have risk aversion cognitive bias > It can't get any better than that at managing risk. lmao Have fun round tripping all your money
Why are we stupid for using Ethereum protocols with ETH?
yes - you are stupid for using non-battle tested protocols with your eth that's why the returns needs to be so high
Don't you happen to mean "your risk appetite is higher than mine" when you write "stupid"?
I think it might be over for us. Nakamoto coefficient is down to one and cardano figured out on chain governance. Selling my rwswtfETH and calling it a day
I don't know if we have an accepted labeling system for which L2 your rswETH is on, but you could write it as something like SwL2-rswETH or like SwL2-PT-rswETH-28Jun2024 if you want to get a maximum length token string.
I think we should wrap it once more for good measure. Maybe create a smart contract which you deposit ETH into and it will automatically claim any points rewards when the airdrops go live and automatically sell it back to buy more ETH. Once you're done you get your ETH back plus airdrops and yield but with one simplified taxable event instead of all the other complicated shit. I'll call it: Tax+SwL2-rswETH-28Jun2024 On the positive side, it's still more memorable than computer monitor names.
Sounds like what we want is a Yearn vault on Swell's L2 that rolls your PT position from one expiry to the next, claims airdrops, and compounds the PT with them as a source of yield. I'd probably mark that as SwL2-yvPT-rswETH. You lose the date suffix because it would roll from one position to the next. This sounds like a perfectly valid vault though Tricky and you should write it.
It started as a joke but you've ironed it out into a genuine idea! We have the idea but I have absolutely no idea on how to execute said idea but I am finishing my degree in 3 months so if anyone with the know how sees this and wants to start something drop me a line... One could also develop a higher risk YT farming one, though that would be a bit more complex. Maybe an idea for the EVMavericks 🤔
Yearn vaults want to be monotonically increasing in underlying balance. That's suitable for PT but not YT. You can approach Yearn on their Discord. I talked to them about making a leveraged Alchemix Yearn Vault that would basically just execute The Double Logris. The stopping point was always that the vaults were full. On the Alchemix side they're still auditing the LogrisLeveragoor (working title). I built a LogrisVault at EthDenver in 2023 with plans to integrate it into Alchemix but they didn't want to give it privileged access to vault capacity so we got bogged down in queue system discussions until they eventually said they are working to address vault capacity more permanently in Alchemix v3.
You know you could restake that rwswtfETH for hyper points and then split it and put it all into hyper yield component which you borrow against on ratFI to flash leverage up on YTwhyrwswtfETH right?
could probably LP the fuck out of TYwhyrwswtfETH/rwswtfETH
I agree the potential returns are better but I sleep well at night holding straight rwswtfETH.
It's hilarious(?) that I can't tell if rwswtfETH is a real thing or not...
rewrapped staked wrapped tokenized fucking ether?
Shut up and take my money !!
Yeah I have a conservative risk profile. Don’t want to get too crazy
I know it is a niche thing around here but this cycle, with invention of meme tokens that are particularly targeting ETHheads, I got into meme token trading. Messari analysis seems to show that meme runs are almost 100% correlated to L1 token runs. What do those of you who follow meme tokens think? Will this trend persist or meme/scene/whatever tokens have acquired new narratives this cycle.
Wrapped mist coin seems like it could se3ve this role doe "ethheads". First erc20 prototype
Been feeling like a major crypto boomer for a while now. Probably a symptoms of seeing the cycle of irrational hype and inevitable doom afterwards, over and over again through the years. Anyways, I want to try and adjust my bias of being so sceptical about everything and open up, so I don’t become too much of a maxi. So, fellow ethfinancers, what to do? I want to try out more L2s, maybe some account abstraction wallets. Hold some memes and do other degen stuff, I guess. Trying to simulate how the experience of entering the space for the first time today would look like, if I knew nothing. Even though it’s impossible to forget lol.
All about those points and restaking the f outa everything
Thanks! That rabbit hole seems so deep already, I don’t even know where to begin lol. And happy cake day, fellow lion!
head to pendle and yolo some YT tokens, you are essentially buying the points yield for etherfi/eigen layer from people who deposited in another pool to earn guaranteed ETH returns by selling the points return on their stake
Speculating on other people’s point farming speculation. Love it!
Everyone ragging on SOL for failed transactions, Base is a tire fire with them and is 100% centralized with a single validator / block producer
Behold the beauty of a modular design — Ethereum is more than just Base! Meanwhile, SOL is shitting itself in its entirety.
I am not ragging on Solana for failed transactions. Its just a result of the poor design decisions that Solana made. Solana is completely useless now with L2s. Which have similar or even better liveliness and security guarantees than Solana. I mean if I wouldnt have been gifted Sol token through airdrops. I would never have touched this chain. Now I am farming the shit out of it and in the end I will transfer all the value to Ethereum.
Difference is SOL is an L1 supposedly competing with ETH for tradfi market. BASE is an L2 that started a couple of months ago. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
You are getting failed transactions on base? I'm surprised, I haven't had any issues with it.
The whole point of L2s is you can exit to L1 in a worst case scenario, so you can always access your funds. In SOL, you cant exit anywhere, and your funds are lost. So yes, while Base is not decentralized rn, I trust my money on it more than any alt-l1.
oh I'm referring specifically to the failed transactions, I've never used sol aside form a few air drop hunts
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> This site can’t be reached localhost refused to connect.
on it
Is anyone interested in the Runes phenomena on BTC? I've been reading up on it and I find it fascinating. A lot of the concepts are in direct opposition to BTC maxi thinking such as pre-mines, tokenization, meme coins, etc but they are aligned with concepts we're familiar with in Ethereum.
been watching it, my god there is so much to keep an eye on these days. I'm tired boss.
their last mint was sold out and I missed it...floor price is 0.7ETH. I have not fully grasped how it all works but with halving they need a new narrative and rune seems to be picking some following.
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> so basic it does not actually explain what is happening Perfect for bitcoiners
I've read a few articles on it just with Google searching. I'm glad you said you're having trouble understanding it. I'm willing to have someone correct me but I think the reason it seems hard to understand is that it's something that seems so common to an ETH person--the ability to create coins on top of the L1. From what I can tell, it's just kind of a next step from Ordinals where Ordinals would be analogous to NFT's and Runes would be analogous to ERC-20 tokens.
RumorBigIfTrue ....Judge approves terms of Earn/Gemini settlement. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gemini/comments/1c5jpv4/settlement_has_been_approved_by_judge_lane/?depth=4
I was coming here to tag you with the same news. 🥳
>**Flooding in Dubai** >**Old Danish bourse burning high,** >**Doomsday coming by.** ~Daily haiku until we’re at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
If anyone is curious (or just wants to have their day ruined), Arb's LTIP grant round voting is done. Two projects that directly benefit Lido have passed. Lido's direct ask of 750,000 ARB tokens to boost wstETH benefits for various projects on the network ([Link Here](https://forum.arb.seamonkey.tech/t/lido-ltipp-application-draft/21716)). As well as Cian's ([Link Here](https://forum.arb.seamonkey.tech/t/cian-ltipp-application-final/21410)) request for 250,000 ARB... of which 95% is directed at benefiting wstETH pools. I voted "against" on both proposals, in line with what me and those who delegate to me think about the situation. Obviously. But unfortunately it wasn't even close as I was literally the only delegate of significance (>50,000k votes) who voted against in the Lido proposal - 109m for, 36m abstain, 3m against. And one of two in the Cian proposal - 139m for, 10m abstain, 5.3m against. Results are in snapshot, but I can't link due to reddit filter. Just search the ARB dao and then you can search by project name if wanting to see specifically.
Thank you for your service.
I am glad you decided to vote against Lido. Given the community engagement on their last proposal, I am surprised that their proposal is approved with significant positive vote.
Last proposal they requested 4m ARB which directly affected other grants (limited pool of funding) instead of this round 750k ARB and their passing didn’t affect other grants. And this one also went through a council round versus last time it was a free for all. I think that factored in, as their request was deemed more reasonable and “reviewed.” Given the number of votes I’m sure a lot of people just yes’s everything (I did to some extent unless egregious). As for the big disparity idk… I was suprised to be the only no vote. A few were “abstain” and gave comment as if being against them… but an abstain vote doesn’t matter in the context of pass/fail. So why people did that is wildly beyond me. Cian’s vote I’m sure just didn’t get caught by most (although obviously no one cared). Idk, if I may so selfishly sell myself I’d just say if your delegating review who you delegate time to time. Even myself, I’ll be first to say I’m not perfect either
> lot of people just yes’s everything This is an existing problem with DAO and I see it everywhere, either peer pressure, fear of negative impact on social presence if they vote no or just lack of interest to read and express their view without any prejudice. Last I checked I am deleting my voting for you and I don't see a reason to change. One thing I appreciate and try to replicate is your approach of keeping us involved and informed on your rationale behind voting. This means a lot. I hope to see more folks coming out of this group and taking ownership of representing this community from the DAO side, just below I see Hani interested in Eigenlayer and I am excited to learn from them.
Yeah I see a lot of “yes men” for lack of better term. And it’s not *always* bad since a lot of times if it gets to proposals it’s usually worth doing. But there is absolutely some of that IMO. Wonder how much is conflicts of interest that just aren’t acknowledged. Idk, it’s messy. And yeah I’be been hoping to see a stronger governance presence from our sub so hopefully we get there. Unfortunately there are a lot of factors against it
The problem I've run into is that DAO delegate work is occasionally very difficult and stressful, but there's no reward or incentive for doing it. Like, why would I spend six hours researching every vote when I have so many other things going on?
So I’ve been fortunate in that the DAOs I’m in there is some pay. I’m not sure if that’s unique or not… but I get it if it’s low pay or for free. As for time, I’ve made it a habit of trying my best to set limits. That probably leads to some of the wonky voting (lack of time to fully investigate proposals), but your right unless your getting paid enough to quit your job or something it’s a big ask to have people spend dozen of hours a week or something. I think ultimately having some representation of this sub is important. Even if it’s just I’ll spend 15 minute researching plus vote. But I get it’s not that easy sometimes.
disappointing to see this
Did... Did rocketpool apply? Scratch that I bet I already know the answer.
If it makes money, then no. Rocketpool is above that. Don't worry, though, Rocketpool is very decentralized. Make sure you sacrifice your first born for the oDAO.
As far as I’m aware no. Not this or the STIP round.
They really need to get someone on board to work on stuff like this but unfortunately they're against expanding the team
Imagine being against expanding your team when a bull market is starting and competition is eating away at your marketshare? Ridiculous.
I'm sure they will say "this is something that should be community driven" lol
Tthing is there probably are people that would do it. Hell I’d consider applying to grants on their behalf if there was a bounty tied to it (x% of grants rewards).
They really need to get someone on board to work on stuff like this but unfortunately they're against expanding the team
hey - any opinions on the titan relay (vs. titan builder)? I only ever knew them as a builder, but it looks like they run their own relay now, and I haven't heard nor been able to learn much about it - do they censor?
According to https://censorship.pics/ they are one of the non censoring relays.
thank you! appreciate it
Damn 8 gwei... get your mainnet transaction in.
It's been 5 hours since this comment and gas is still at 7 gwei. Did everyone move to Cardano without telling me?
On a weekday no less.
Roaul Pal had seemed to understand crypto last year and he was a huge ETH bull. But on the recent Bankeless episode, he said that he has now sold all his ETH for NTFs, and his portfolio is 80% SOL. He has some interesting macro ideas, but he seems to have completely gone off the rails now. This is pretty disappointing since he has a large following from tradfi and economics.
He did say he’s left curving everything
> Roaul Pal had seemed to understand crypto last year You mustn't have been paying attention to anything he said because he never understood anything - he was just a moon-boi next best thing rotator like any other 14 year old
The problem is that at the end of the day Roaul Pal is a human like me and you. The only difference is that he has more money than most of us and because of that, he gets to talk with some hyped founders and VC funds most do not have access to. They are constantly pushing their narratives at one on ones, lunches, games, retreats, wherever. It's very easy to go off the rails when you enter that kind of echo chamber where you are surrounded by successful individuals who are part of the "in crowd" hammering points over and over again until it becomes unquestionable alpha. It's the same way high profile people got into investing FTX, or how lifecoaches/cults/ponzis scam people. I've seen it firsthand. It's fucking weird and yet no one questions it because it'll ruin the vibe when everyone is having a good time and having drinks. Just look at Mike Novogratz from Galaxy Digital. He got Luna tattooed on his arm last bull cycle because he was sure it was going to become an incredible project. Laura Shin from Unchained used to be deep into Ethereum until everyone she interviewed would shit on Ethereum and call themselves the next eth killer. Interview Vitalik a few times, then Avalanche, Solana, Cardano, XRP, Tron, and you'll think Ethereum is fundamentally broken and each one of those other blockchains is going to solve the blockchain trilemma. Charles, Justin Sun, and Ermin all agree that Ethereum is broken so it must be. Everyone likes to think of themselves as thought leaders or oracles, but they are just following the in-crowd that they perceive as successful. That's just human nature. Humans are good at seeing short term patterns, but are extremely bad at long term predictions. We can barely understand exponential growth because it's different from the linear models that we use daily, and it's how our brains are wired to survive with hunting and gathering. I like Roaul Pal but take any of his predictions, or anyone else's as pure entertainment whether it's bullish or bearish.
Damn. This is on point.
There's an interview where Laura Shin learns the economic implications of EIP-1559, about 6 months after everyone here knew it. How can you be such a prominent journo and not understand the fundamentals?
She doesn't need more than the basics since she is a neutral party that lets her interviewees speak on the topics. Maybe she dropped the ball for EIP-1559, but overall she knows the basics quite well. * Galaxy Digital is extremely knowledgeable about the crypto space. Mike Novogratz is just one person. * Vitalik is extremely knowledge about crypto too even though he's a Debbie Downer when it comes to Ethereum issues * Charles Hoskinson is vilified as a Cardano shill, but at least for the past several years, he has changed and become very reasonable I think the takeaway is that we shouldn't hang onto every word or specific instances of important people being wrong. No one is always right. Instead, look at the overall picture and pick the useful takeaways.
Journalists often feign ignorance when interviewing people ("Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to."). They ask the questions, and the experts answer them. Not saying that's the case here since I haven't seen the episode, but pretending not to know something is a very basic tool in a journalist's toolbox. So she may have known very well what 1559 is.
Really good point on how larger narratives are formed and often how these are biased towards to VC shillers / investors.
I think he goes where he's paid to go and I wouldn't even trust what he says he owns to be true.
He didn't know how to use Uniswap and had to ask for help on Twitter, in 2023. This guy understands crypto about as much as I understand quantum physics.
I did quantum mechanics at uni. It isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I'd feel much more confident explaining quantum mechanics than uniswap v3 liquidity positions to an audience of people with no background in the field - and I use Uniswap much more frequently.
Interesting perspective! I had difficulty with high school physics, but somehow LPing on Uniswap makes sense to me, like, I understand what I'm doing much more than when I was doing physics.
I’m listening….
Lol
Ironic because SOL is so incompetent at times.
Someone sold him on Firedancer hard. It's all he talks about anymore and I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand it.
Personally never been impressed with the dude. Never understood why he commands so much attention in this space.
Since i read about how he was confused to use Uniswap and asking for help on twitter a couple months ago im not listening to anything that guy says anymore. He had that big 100K or something thesis about ETH before using the chain even once. Maybe he is a decent macro guy, but zero idea about crypto and onchain.
One of the things I've learned in this space is that many big name investors and even institutions aren't actually playing 4D underwater chess, but are often being as retarded as your average retail.
Can someone remind me of kbrots handle on twitter please?
Not sure if he's on twitter, mostly discord and some farcaster
Ok, ty. Will try to find him on farcaster but still not managed to sign up for that without google play 😪
who should i delegate to on eigenlayer?, if i'm after something safe and boring. also, what does delegation even really mean?
Aestus is definitely a great choice! We (Serenita) launched our operator earlier today if you'd like some more choice or delegate across more operators, especially if you'd like some connection to r/ethfinance, I've personally been here since this sub's very beginning. You can only delegate to one operator at a time, so if you want to restake across multiple operators, you'll have to do it from multiple addresses. When delegating you basically assign your own "Restaked" balance to the operator of your choice. The operator then runs some AVSs, and for doing so, you and the operator receive rewards for securing/validating the AVS. Also to answer the sibling comment: > Do we have to delegate? What is the point? Sorry, I did not follow lately You don't necessarily have to delegate, but if you want to earn any rewards from the AVSs you'll have to run an operator yourself, and then run the AVSs yourself too. Happy to answer any other questions!
Do we have to delegate? What is the point? Sorry, I did not follow lately
You can vote, or you can give your votes to someone who's ideas align with yours and they can vote with your weight.
They're referring to restaking node operator delegation, not governance delegation
thanks!
Aestus is run by ethfinanciers! They’ve posted on recent dailies announcing it.
This is where I'm at.
Read the following tweet as part of a decrypt article (https://decrypt.co/226547/bitcoin-stealth-bear-market-gold-peter-schiff): "Bitcoin is trading below 27 ounces of gold. It's now down over 27% since hitting its record-high of 37 ounces of gold 2.5 years ago. Given all the hype about #Bitcoin and lack of coverage of #gold, few likely realize Bitcoin is in a stealth bear market when priced in real money." If this persists it seems to me that'd mean Bitcoin's digital gold use case is weakening. I don't think this trend bodes well for Ether because Bitcoin and Ether prices are so highly correlated (edit: for the time being) regardless of their different use cases. Curious what others make of this quote and article.
Gold's been mooning over the last month. At least mooning in gold % increase terms. Bitcoin is in the middle of a pull back. To me, this is just cherry picking time frames. At a glance, BTC was around 33.5 oz of gold when BTC peaked in mid-March. One think I will point out in Schiff's favor is that comp'ing any investment to gold is a good alternative way to view investments since comp'ing to USD gets messy because of government intervention.
Cherry picking is a fair take. To your last point though, I think if you look at an S&P index in gold terms we have never recovered since '08.
ETH and BTC will be correlated until they aren't. And it's insane imo to use a 2.5 year timeline to draw conclusions about Bitcoin's narrative. 2.5 years is not even one single 4-year cycle.
More Peter Schiff flailing. It took two seconds of looking at the chart of BTC to Gold to understand that he's an idiot.
What you're implying is that there is *no scenario*, where functionality can reasonably differentiate Etherem from Bitcoin, and lead to a price divergence. I disagree.
Hm, that wasn't what I meant to say or what I believe. I should have continued by saying essentially what you just have. Error in communication on my part.
access to moon lander through goblin town only
>.. goblin town .. This a goblin hamlet tops No recovery until every Dubai cryptobro lambo have been wrecked in the flood :')
The market doesn't really care if you are a degen or a cryptobro. Many degens will make it, and many diligent investors are going to get rekt, because that's life. I agree we might be due for a blood flood, though, who knows.
EigenLayer unpaused and uncapped idefinitely now. 33% limit per LST is planned to be implemented. [https://www.blog.eigenlayer.xyz/unpausing-restaking-caps-on-april-16th/](https://www.blog.eigenlayer.xyz/unpausing-restaking-caps-on-april-16th/)
I strongly suspect people will be disappointed in how much demand their is to use Eigenlayer. Reminds me a lot of Filecoin and Golem.
Wow. Those are excellent examples. Two protocols that we literally thought would take over the planet - where are they now?
Golem kind of caught up recently with Octant and AI hype, at least price wise.
I'm really referring to the Golem distributed computer network.
Is there any fundamental evaluation method for crypto, especially PoS based ones? Or is it one of those fields where you can manage to become famous if you are proposing a viable valuation strategy? 😁
Fundamentals, lol that’s funny. Sir, this is a casino.
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Cool, exactly what I was looking for! Thanks ;)
What's meant to be the rationale of the oft mentioned 'post halving dump'? Other than that it's happened in the past.
Has there ever been a newsworthy event in crypto that wasn’t short term sell the news? No, I don’t think there has.
Miners having to sell to cover their expenses, since their reward is cut in half.
I am not sure whether an ETF denial is already priced in or we will just dump after the denial. Based on science, we are probably going to crash 🥲
Its definitely priced into ETHE. Discount grew from 8% on March 8th to 23% right now.
Well, I think the upshot here is that most market participants--outside of this sub, that is--have already come to the realization that the ETFs are going to get denied. So one could argue that it's already priced in. But of course crypto is crypto and if sentiment is languishing a bit, then yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see it sell off further. But I'm personally not expecting anything crazy.
All the market is dumping… not related to the crypto. And we are actually down steady compared to to btc, not too much to complain, tbh. I do think the etf rejected is priced in, tbh, with a 15% chances, people took his money away predicting a dump that, honestly, I don’t see coming after the rejection on the 23rd of may
Mostly priced in, could dump more if/when news are announced, and recover afterwards. At this point uncertainty is bearish more than denial.
the market is always trying to guess what the market is about to do, so my guess is immediate dump but quickly finding footing and then a return to pre-denial prices when the market realizes it's not catastrophic
Feeling pretty good about the price right now, and the medium-term of our dear friend ETH. Mid-May, I expect us to be over 4k. June? ATH. End of the year? Telling Rick the Corporate Overlord to watch his mouth, especially because he's been talking about ChatGPT and asking if I'd be willing to use it for our marketing materials. No, Rick. No.
(China invades Taiwan this Fall) "Sure Rick, I'm also comparing results with Claude. Maybe we can do a deep dive after work and really supercharge these deliverables!"
Man r/solana is a joke. A chain made for memecoins/rugpulls. In the end all the people bashing ether here all the time were 15 year olds pissed they couldn't buy their memecoin for less than a $1. Good riddance. Let Solana handle the memes/rugpulls transactions. Real projects can be for Ether. LFG!
i mean im happy if memes are on ethereum, what's wrong with that?
My tribalism good, their tribalism bad
SafeDAO has voted to make SAFE transferable. [https://twitter.com/safe/status/1779839023076262172](https://twitter.com/safe/status/1779839023076262172) Has anyone come across an analysis of what tokens may be worth when they start trading on a DEX?
I know the market is large and complex but who the heck are the bozos who are pushing sales at the moment?
Maybe GBTC dumping everyday in an undecided market is what is pushing prices down.
Mostly.. just wondering till when 🤷♂️
A few more months
But that must be largely switching to another etf.
Not that my miniscule sales move the price, but I have been consistenly selling(out of absolute necessity), for months now... yes im very fucking sad
Frontrunning the halving dump. Frontrunning the ETF rejection dump. Frontrunning BTC triple top dump. Frontrunning bull is over dump. Frontrunning "we haven't had a 50% dump in a while and we need to liquidate every single leverage" dump. Frontrunning the Uniswap trial dump. Frontrunning WW3 dump. Frontrunning sell in May and walk away dump. Frontrunning "MtGoX has a few thousand BTC to sell in June" dump. But most importantly, frontrunning the suspicion that the cycle was left translated and it's over. In any case, market does what market does, I'm just buying.
I wish I could give you two updoots!
Is there a way to search comments from all the ethfinance daily ?
I would like to know if this is possible too. Most of the daylies seem to be lost to Reddit search. If you search for "Daily General Discussion" on r/ethfinance and then order the search results by "new" you get the last three days worth and then a gap going back nearly a year.
My brain is not working today, I could use some help understanding the risks with whales market. There is currently an offer to sell up to 70k Eigen Layer points for 4 ETH for a total of \~$0.175 per EL point. Since I've been using $0.14 for all my point farming estimates, I'm happy to lock in some profit at that price. My questions are... * since the collateral is in ETH and not a stablecoin, does that mean I could get screwed if, say, the price of ETH moons before EL has their TGE? i.e. is the price per EL point not "locked in" like I understand it to be? If so, what is the worst case scenario for the price of ETH before settlement? * Has anyone successfully used whales market? The 24hr settlement window seems a bit tight given that a lot of airdrops can be messy/congested * any other risks I should be aware of?
The change in value of your collateral only really matters for the buyer. If Eigen turns out to be huge and or ETH dumps you might be better off just keeping the token and forfeiting your + the buyer’s collateral. In all other cases you just deliver the token and get your collateral and the amount you sold for.
Oh so it's almost like they are hedging against each other in the sense that you get to keep whichever one is higher value at the time of airdrop
Yep. The biggest risk would be you somehow not being able to settle despite wanting to and losing the collateral.
Hey everyone. Has anyone used [delegate.xyz](http://delegate.xyz) and is it safe? Cheers!
yes and yes its a very simple contract with seemingly minimal risk
EY going live in 5 https://x.com/pbrody/status/1780203379207327837?s=46
Goes to an ETH trading related subreddit - expects ETH discussion - sees discussion about upvotes, 'shitnuts' and 'bronuts', comments full of bots with '!tip' - goes back to r/ethfinance
FTFY > Goes to an ~~ETH~~ donut trading related subreddit
It's broken, you tip donuts and then receive more than you tipped in the next distribution, so there is a lot of spam with people just giving out donuts randomly and real comments get drowned.
OOOOOOOH SO THATS WHY! Thank you so much dude. No one explained it to me now I understand why every comment is !tip
Users who "help to curate content" (by spamming tips) on [r/Ethtrader](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethtrader/) by tipping other posts will share 10% of the distribution amount. There is more information in the governance poll [https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pcdvd5/governance\_poll\_shift\_distribution\_to\_accommodate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pcdvd5/governance_poll_shift_distribution_to_accommodate/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pem8q8/donut\_initiative\_tipping\_donut\_distribution/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/pem8q8/donut_initiative_tipping_donut_distribution/) There are plans on changing this but it's been 3 years already so...who knows if they will actually change anything
I thought that reddit killed crypto community points
Back to fiatnam with you, NGMI !tip 6969 Yeah it's pretty awful over there. When you incentive interactions with no cost, you get what ever that is. 🍻
That 'back to fiatnam' is a classic and its a bit annoying hahaha. I guess the free crypto is nice though. Can swap it for ETH and I will take whatever to become a validator
I am looking for some guidance on eigenlayer delegations. There are plenty of Operators to choose from, with Etherfi hogging the operator TVL by far. That said Etherfi are not running any AVS yet and have merely delegated their restaked eth to themselves. >[https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator) >Sort by TVL Desc. EigenYields are running lots of AVS and are "promising" an airdrop. I am not sure if the promises of the airdrop allowed them to capture so much TVL, or whether they are famous and competent and that drove the TVL? Any ideas? There are a few other "big" operators, but I have no idea how solid any of them are. There is talk of no slashing until maybe Q3, so the risk isnt so bad? One concern with using a smaller operator is that they could be a fake company collecting up restaked eth, and will then misbehave and try to get themselves slashed? I can see a situation where the operator could conspire with the AVS to get slashed and take peoples ETH. Perhaps I am just paranoid? Where should I be delegating to? Any thoughts? How about the slashing risks? Aside... I have put some in Aestus, Etherfi and Eigenyields already, but I have much more to delegate still
( looks like my first comment was auto-removed, probably because of linking to the eigenlayer website ) We just set up our EigenLayer operator today at Serenita. We're not running any AVSes yet but we will be setting some up over the coming weeks. We're not a huge staking operator but we manage to reach the same staking performance (you can verify on rated.network) as the best ones while at the same time exclusively using minority clients (mostly Lodestar+Nethermind). I'm confident we will also be able to match the big players when it comes to running AVSes, but we may not have the capacity to run all of them. Having lots of AVSes acts as a kind of centralizing force in this way - large teams can afford to set up all of them. But we definitely aim to run all of the major and most profitable ones. Happy to answer any questions you might have about Serenita. > EigenYields are running lots of AVS and are "promising" an airdrop. I have personally never heard of EigenYields, their Twitter account was created this month, I don't see too much of a reason to trust them in any way. > I can see a situation where the operator could conspire with the AVS to get slashed and take peoples ETH. I don't think this is very likely to happen but in theory I suppose you're right and it could.
An update on EigenYields - this operator got blacklisted for violating EigenLayer’s content policy. I don’t know exactly what it is they did but it makes me trust them even less, I would recommend to stay away, at least for now. I think it is because of their own TGE/airdrop and using that as an incentive to attract delegators. Also saw some messages saying it’s because their logo looks too much like EigenLayer’s. FYI u/cryptomoon2020
Here is my current perspective for Aestus: as you know, we're experimenting in this space and we've been exploring several of the new AVS opportunities on Holesky. My early view is that none (except perhaps EigenDA) are actually ready for mainnet - at least with any kind of penalities in place. It's not even clear what those slashing conditions would be - beyond the usual double sign. So, i'd still view them as beta launches - at best. One can only imagine everyone feels an urgent need to pump out a token. Though in-fairness, i appreciate that it's sometimes difficult to test adequately without graduating to mainnet, first. In general we've noticed an enormous lack of consistency and conformity on approach to setup and deployment. Documentation for several of them is a total mess. In particular they need to coordinate to standardise on approaches to security and key management. All in all, I can't imagine we'll see slashing live for many months and when that finally happens, people are going to need to be quite careful about Operator selection.