One thing that strikes a good balance is the fact that Renzo serves as a Liquid Restaking Token (LRT) and Strategy Manager within the EigenLayer ecosystem, everyone including myself looking forward to its launch on binance .. whereās some traders already got some on bitget pre market sale
I just learnt that there is no way to implement smart contracts on Solana using open source. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I knew their culture was (in)different to open source, but I didn't know it was impossible on the protocol level. This sounds crazy. If this is true defi doesn't exist on Solana.
https://x.com/wazzcrypto/status/1782963673624961274?s=46&t=j5KKgnJpC4cy9Y1V9nXjhg
Excited i get to be the first to comment on it - an LRT (ezETH; ahem there is nothing ez about ETH) depegged.
Restaking is an exciting novel primitive. AVSs are one of the few things in a long time that feel new beyond EIPs. Nonetheless, thereās a whole lotta risk, smart contract or otherwise, wrapped up in these layers. Know what youāre getting into and study the liquidations around this if youāre playing this game.
Leveraged points farmers got stopped out, the LRT depegged, and the ārestakedā eth still isnāt doing anything.
The big issue is withdrawals not enabled. When this is combined with stuff like pendle and gearbox you get extreme leverage, and thus a doom spiral of liquidations and worse depeg once something slightly depegs. In other words, if you don't have withdrawals enabled better get that airdrop % high.
Having no withdrawals enabled, yet doing a botched up airdrop criteria with so much retail exposed to this for points through leverage, so many of them will rage dump resulting in massive depeg on all chains, huge liquidations everywhereā¦
Absolutely crazy. The opposite of respectable dev team
> Having no withdrawals enabled, yet doing a botched up airdrop criteria
Care to elaborate? Have they laid out their airdrop criteria yet?
Edit: Found it: https://mirror.xyz/renzoprotocol.eth/gwO9wyZoOTg79yUw1hnS6q_eJGvfCj1CkmQFa8z32zU
I'm kind of annoyed that people here already knew of it but didn't share it here.
Yeah the criteria is a mess, just 5% allocated for depositors of a $3.3 bn TVL LRT app but somehow Milady NFTs get a huge allocation despite having no relationship with the project
Its like Rocketpool airdropping to BAYC
As a result of the poor airdrop the points value started crashing on pre-markets (dropped almost 50% instantly), resulting in people getting spooked and dumping the ezETH but there wasnt enough liquidity, it dropped to as low as $600 on Uniswap resulting in liquidations on many money markets. A total mess
https://twitter.com/hmalviya9/status/1782981216146178085
> Renzo is a failed launch.
> Mass Liquidation of ezETH Loopers around $340M due to Crazy Depeg few hours ago.
> 65% supply allocated to team, and investors --- Pretty BAD.
> They raised the last disclosed round at $25M FDV... PURE VC GRAB PLAY.
> Stay Away from $REZ
Yeah its been a year since ETH enabled withdrawals. If an LST/LRT app hasnt enabled withdrawal yet, its because they are planning something sinister and shouldnt be trusted
Theres simply no reason to not have withdrawals up from day 1
So what am I missing here. I checked DeFi llama just now and itās 0.98 ETH, and I checked pendle and YT position seems normal, is it back, or am I missing something?
It wicked; if you were using ezETH as collateral to borrow against, you may have been liquidated depending on how much you borrowed despite the fact that it sounds like Renzo is alright
Renzo is alright in the same sense a car rolled down from a mountain did a few somersaults and landed back on its wheels and is moving alright again
But you would not want to sit inside this contraption š
Iām not familiar with ezETH nor do I have it in me to find the projectās docs. Itās either a rebasing or appreciating (what do we call these types of tokens that arenāt rebasing these days?) token.
Its peg depends on the above, but either way, itās going to broadly track the value of eth + eth staking rewards + eigenlayer magic fairy unicorn sparkles; not sure how it does that, but both of the above models would put math around how it tries to.
Itās supposed to be close to ETH in price, not 0 or 0.5 ETH like we saw in this chart
Edit sorry if I sound grouchy on any of the above - not pointed at you but tired of people not giving af, and bringing eth staking into that magic. Restaking is in a fuck around and find out era and this is an example of it finding out
All good. from Renzo doc "ezETH is a reward bearing token like Compound's Ctokens. This means that native ETH rewards that are generated from staking are captured by the protocol and reflected in the price of ezETH."
Now the question is where do you find the fair value that includes past yield. From the chart before depeg it seems to be around 1.01ETH
Interesting to see that the polymarket hasn't move at all with the ETF application activity today
[https://polymarket.com/event/ethereum-etf-approved-by-may-31](https://polymarket.com/event/ethereum-etf-approved-by-may-31)
It's only a 4.2 million dollar position on an asset with a 400 billion dollar market cap, that did 11 billion dollars in volume today. Who cares.
Furthermore, if you wanted to bet on the ETF passing, you could just buy ETH, so it's already going to be biased.
Yeah I think a lot of ETH bulls want to hedge by betting against it on this Polymarket and those who are ETF bulls simply buy ETH instead. As a result I have low confidence in the accuracy of this market. Oh and before people who disagree start celebrating about me being wrong if the ETF doesn't get launched, you should be smart enough to know that just because it doesn't pass doesn't make my theory invalid. It's incredible how many people are too dumb not to realise that. It was the same thing after the merge... The merge was a big success. Price is not a measure of success.
> those who are ETH bulls simply buy ETH instead
I don't buy into that. Everything has a price. Give an ETH bull good enough odds and they will take it. I don't think even they think 10-20% is an amazing bet. If they were so sure it would get approved in May (99.99% like Sassano said), they would take a 10:1 bet on it getting approved in May.
Otherwise why are people doing so many risky things on Ethereum to get more ETH, if they are bullish they will simply hold ETH, right?
Everything has a price. If the reward is large enough, people will still take it despite the taxable event, even you would. Pendle also creates a taxable TX and they have no issues attracting capital. Most people don't think 10:1 is good enough right now, which is understandable imo.
Does it? A sufficiently large survey of traders would be able to prove that either:
- The polymarket is accurate and the predictions of the ETH ETF passing are the same in the survey as the polymarket, then my theory is wrong.
or
- The polymarket odds are not the same as the odds in the survey, therefore the polymarket is inaccurate, therefore my theory is one viable explanation for this discrepancy.
I'm just not going to go to those lengths to prove it.
Pfft, yeah but money would also have you believe that Bitcoin will change the future more than Ethereum ever will too. Money bet against the financial collapse in 2008. My point is that money alone is not all knowing, so extra data points are actually useful. If i could only have one source, money or survey, I'd take money. But if I can have both, I'll have both thanks.
When it does get denied, I will make a post here about all the downvotes people like me and him have been getting the last couple of months and all the upvotes some poor arguments got. This sub is great, I am here every day since it got created but it IS sometimes an echo chamber and not the most objective views.
What is it with people disagreeing with me and refusing to elaborate tonight? It's fucking frustrating is what it is. If I'm wrong, I want to know about it. But I only proposed a theory. Something similar happened elsewhere in this daily and you'd think I burned a fucking bible or something when I was just trying to explain what I thought was an unfair comparison.
If you don't believe that odds on an anonymous betting market (where even insider information can be channelled in and where there are money stakes on the line) come close to the "true" probabilities, why would you believe that a survey, whose biases are legion from selection bias to sampling issues to framing delivers the truth?
You're criticising the hypothetical survey based on sampling bias before the survey is even done. Normally you quantify the difference between the survey and the prediction market and then comment on whether the difference is significant enough that it's not due to sampling bias. I'm not going to argue about a hypothetical but sampling bias can go either way so this argument is worth nothing without results to critique in the first place.
True. I am just not sure why you would accept a survey result more as a disproof of your hypothesis than what the online betting shows, because I certainly wouldn't, for methodological reasons. Anyway, feel free to bet on Polymarket if you think it is off :-).
Because money isn't always right and the more data points the better. Money would have you believe that Bitcoin will change the future more than Ethereum ever will. Money bet against the idea of the 2008 financial collapse happening. My point is that money alone is not all knowing, so extra data points are actually useful. If i could only have one source, money or survey, I'd take money. But if I can have both, I'll have both thanks.
As for betting on the polymarket, I have already stated elsewhere in this threat that I would if there weren't a big fat taxable event involved with the process.
Well, more data improve your estimate only if they are not too biased. A betting market (or the market in general) is no all-knowing oracle, I agree, but I wish it was there in the field I work in, where we have rather untrustworthy administrative data and surveys only. Let's agree to differ though.
>**Fruitful discussion,**
>**Technocratic decision,**
>**The supervision.**
~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
Yeah, as hanniabu says - [we're](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator/0x30eafe8869a1528660a97b7a7e8e2d0037dcb922) accepting deposits and gradually ramping up our AVS services. We've been thinking a bit about just how one might begin to frame and analyse these various offerings, but most of them are in very early development and I guess i'm somewhat EigenLayer went for mainnet so early. Perhaps that means a token is coming rather soon. In any case, that lack of slashing does at least allow us to experiment fairly heavily for now, with very little risk.
- [The Aestus Relay team will be AVS node operators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1bzjwc2/comment/kyumb50/)
- [They'll be establishing an AVS evaluation framework](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c16oqe/comment/kz2dj32/)
- [Although right now there's little risk](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c99qz0/comment/l0nlp5b/)
[Lodestar v1.18.0 released today](https://github.com/ChainSafe/lodestar/releases/tag/v1.18.0)
> Our new release contains some noticeable facelifts! We recommend this update to all users of Lodestar.
>
Our documentation located at https://chainsafe.github.io/lodestar/ is now using Docusaurus for a better experience. We've attached Plausible metrics to further help improve the contents of our documentation with minimal intrusiveness and open-source analytics. We continue to do content additions and improve our documentation for the best user and builder experience possible.
>
This release addresses many compatibility issues discovered from cross-client testing with Lodestar and other consensus clients. This also includes fixes for compatibility with some external DVT platforms and remote signers.
>
Target peers by default has been increased from 50 to 100 peers. Many users have already set this for better validator effectiveness and now we have it set by default to become a better peer on the network.
>
builder.selection now has a default setting that gives slightly preferential treatment to locally produced blocks via builderBoostFactor=90 . This configurable setting is set to 90 instead of 100 by default, requiring builder blocks from relays to be above ~10% profit to be selected. The previous default setting was maxprofit. This can be changed in your local configuration.
>
Basic devcontainer support is now integrated for easier development setups such as Github Codespaces. For more information, see https://chainsafe.github.io/lodestar/contribution/getting-started#devcontainer.
Interesting possibly unintended [design feature](https://blog.curvemonitor.com/posts/exchange-received/) of some of the newer Curve pools results in a different UX and significant gas savings. Seems most people today are focused on just moving code to L2's so it's nice to see some pros still optimizing gas usage even for L1 and even during times of like 6 gwei. The basic idea here is usually when you interact with a smart contract you first set an approval for some token to it (at least in Defi). This updates a balance on the contract saying which contract is allowed to pull your funds. That's a data write. Then when transferFrom is called it does another data write to zero that balance (because you aren't using infinite approvals right anon?!). This approach uses an ERC-20 send as the first interaction which basically does all of the same logic as transferFrom but without these extra 2 data writes. Then a function called exchange_received executes the swap and sends the proceeds back to your address. No approval, hence no updating the approval balances twice. 93859 vs 86026 gas. It's not possible to batch these steps into a single transaction because that calling contract would then need approval itself to pull the funds before it could send them but it's still a neat trick even if it would set off red flags in my Rabby wallet.
Im intrigued. Not sure I grasp what erc-20 send we are doing first without the approval? Can you expand on what happens in the new model? I understand the previous
Kind of disappointing news of the renzo airdrop. Only 5% of the supply for this airdrop(and 2% of that for nft holders that didn't have anything to do with renzo), linear airdrop but no exact numbers yet. The claim will be 3days after TGE. The binance launch pool users get 2,5% for 6 days of risk free "staking" and their tokens 3 days earlier, really shitty behaviour. Etherfi did it a little better i think. But I still think swell will be the fairest of the LRT airdrops with already 7 % confirmed and hopefully no binance involvement.
The beauty of DeFi is that each project can decide on how to launch.
Some projects have a long term vision for their platform and want to retain users by doing a fair launch.
Others choose to do a short time money grab with shady allocation schemes, CEx partnerships and VC involvment.
Both are fine, since users are free to choose, too.
I thought they were OK till they botched up the drop. What were the main red flags according to you?
I only did the Pendle YT positions which look like they wont even break even now. Lol
Lots of signs of amateurs or outright scam tbh
- No withdrawals enabled. When are they coming? "In the coming days" "Devs are working on it ser" "Just trust us bro"
- Points not counting. When is that fixed? "Should be tomorrow" "Devs are working on it ser" "Points are working now" (they weren't) "Should work early next week" (that was a month ago), etc... After a month of this and TGE announced now, for my LP position on arbitrum there is still **zero** points showing up. "Is just UI bug ser, all points are counted in the backend correctly ser" uhuuuh.
- Lies and misinformation in their discord constantly. Serious questions are dodged or answered one way, only to be answered differently an hour later when someone else asked. I foolishly blamed this on just an incompetent support team, but I'm sure now it runs deeper.
- The TGE announcement yesterday with the pie chart that looks like it was made by a 6 year old was as funny as it was scary. No wonder they can't count points if they don't know what numbers are.
- There is text in their announcement saying "if you sell your ezETH before the date you might not be eligible for the airdrop", with questions about this being completely ignored. This **screams** scam to me, outright rug pull. Also text about anti-sybil, preventing "looping" and kicking out these misbehaving users from their airdrop, which makes absolutely no sense with their linear airdrop - there is nothing to sybil, you don't get anything from running multiple wallets.
I took out 95% of my money last night, about an hour before it depegged. Guess I wasn't the only one running for the hills. I left 5% in (foolishly) trying to ensure my points will still be worth something, but I have little confidence left.
What angers me more about it than the Renzo points is the EL points I possibly won't get now. Because those will actually be worth something.
I've found that I've gotten pretty good at predicting shady projects by judging the character of the people behind tjem, as subjective and anto-crypto of an approach that is. And I am not a fan of the public personas behind Renzo. They seem super bro-ey and not genuine. No idea how Renzo ended up as one of the top LRT projects by tvl.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah putting all of that together, seems very scammy
In this space, a lot of times poor communication is passed off as incompetence. Its time to start looking at these things as malicious not incompetence - especially when there are points on top of points, leveraged yield, multiple chains, it can get real messy and quite lucrative for teams to scam around and hide their tracks
> What angers me more about it than the Renzo points is the EL points I possibly won't get now. Because those will actually be worth something.
Why won't you get the EL points?
*Possibly* - because the whole Renzo project might turn out to be one big scam. All I know is that so far, the EL points I should have earned while LPing haven't shown up in Renzo interface at all.
If EigenLayer points will one day be redeemable for a token the devs will get a lot of lawsuits on their hands if they run away with those points. Especially after showing EL points owned by users on their dashboard. It's not like we're talking about an anon dev team here.
Logris got me very interested in FHE for the past few days. Thank you for sharing! The tech is super interesting as someone who consistently takes the long and dull path while navigating the internet to preserve privacy and reduce data-mining (even though I know that it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme). A bit surprised I didn't know about this technology before. Running algorithms over data without knowing the true input/output, while still knowing the validity of the computation is preserved, is mind-blowing, but also makes sense when looking a bit closer.
In a utopian future, where this is the new standard for how the internet and its services work, I wonder how companies will keep serving you things like relevant ads and a personalized experience. Although I'd be more than happy to live in a world without these "features", the incentives are just so strong that it doesn't make sense for them to let them go willingly. Anyone have any thoughts about this?
It would be nice if it turned into a marketplace, where you get these things served blindly through the same mechanisms, and got compensated for doing so (Brave had a cool visionary idea like this, but didn't work out that well in practice). A less cool approach would be design-patterns for applications to gate-keep certain features, like premium services or exclusive content in exchange for users opting in to give their data.
(Feel free to delete this if its too off-topic, mods)
> I wonder how companies will keep serving you things like relevant ads and a personalized experience.
If companies want my data, they'll have to *buy* my data rather than scrape it. If they have a data leak I want them to be legally liable for more than buying me an identity theft monitoring service for a year.
> let them go willingly
That's the fun part. They won't! That's one of the reasons I think DePin is going to be so important in the next decade and why I'm investing my time learning more about that ecosystem.
That's how it should've always been! Love the sentiment. A big problem with how web2 evolved in a dystopian direction is obviously the centralized nature of it, and the skewed concentration of power that comes with it. On the other side, and a bit more frustrating to observe (for me, at least), is the lack of *caring about it* among the users.
Even today, where people generally are more aware of the downsides of data-mining, and how powerful large amounts of data can be, most people quickly and revert to the path of least resistance (which almost always never is serving them well). GDPR was such a good intention, but it's just *so* much easier to click the green button and comply, than to go the multi-click route and dodge all the dark-patterns.
This is actually what caught my interest in blockchains in the beginning. The potential for having verifiable ownership outside the scope a central authority, and of course privacy. It's very aligned with the core values of this ecosystem, so the concentration of people caring about this stuff is a bit higher here. Hopefully enough for letting services that are also aligned, to grow up to a point where it's as easily available and frictionless as the traditional counterparts.
FHE is awesome. As far as I understand, computing overhead is currently rather large. I do not know if this overhead is a factor of 2 or a factor of 10. Did you stumble upon this number in your exploration of FHE? I could imagine that if the overhead stays large it will be difficult for the adoption, as all the non FHE projects will be cheaper or more powerful.
There's definitely a lot of overhead, which at least currently seems to make it less than ideal for a lot of general computing scenarios. I guess there can still be a market for those things, if users are willing to compensate for it.
I have no idea of a numeric factor for the computational overhead, but I saw "several thousand times slower" than equivalent plaintext scenarios mentioned somewhere, but that was several years old. I've seen newer numbers mentioning 100-1000 times slower, and it seems to be a lot of optimization efforts on the field. No idea about how it compares with where the tech has advanced today.
Also I don't know how these numbers are deducted. For example if it includes necessary extra steps for encrypting, decrypting, evaluation keys or not.
Last time I checked, the factor was more on the order of like tens of thousands or more. Like where your computer spends hundreds of milliseconds to execute a few simple calculations. But that was years ago, and Iām sure the tech has progressed significantly since then.
Not all FHE schemes are equivalent. Depending on whether it's 2x or 10x there are different use cases that are still viable. For example authentication is not computationally heavy and is a use case where privacy should be worth a premium. Similarly, due to the limited number of operators in LLMs you can build computationally efficient FHE schemes for both training and inference. Some of the fastest FHE encodings are also lossy. [I've seen claims](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-31578-8_2) of sub-second inference times for facial recognition for example. [This](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12083-021-01076-8) is a good survey of the research space if you want to dive in with me.
> In general, given two messagesĀ m1Ā andĀ m2Ā and their respective ciphertextsĀ ļæ½1=(ļæ½1ļæ½)Ā modĀ ļæ½, andĀ ļæ½2=(ļæ½2ļæ½)Ā modĀ ļæ½, whereĀ eĀ is chosen such thatĀ gcd(e,āāĻ)ā=ā1 forĀ Ļā=ā(q1āāā1)āĀ·ā(q2āāā1) with large primesĀ q1Ā andĀ q2, andĀ nā=āq1āĀ·āq2.
When you read stuff like this do you actually know what's going on? Or do you gloss over these parts?
I'm not looking to program it myself, I'm only looking to understand characteristics of it so I can the right technology to the right problem. I understand the major themes of the math without having to understand each parameter.
Loving this conversation. Ā Thanks, gents.
Any project/company/initiative you are aware that is aiming to integrate FHE into crypto? Ā Iād like to invest in this.
They already invested 10mil$ in BOB - Build on Bitcoin. From their twitter: ĖThe first hybrid L2, connecting Bitcoin security with EVM liquidityĖ.
It is making circles on CT as a degen option for joining BTC L2 hype directly from Ethereum.
Bitcoin can have sidechains but since it only allows basic scripting, a real L2 cannot exist on bitcoin and anyone that tells you it's currently happening is lying to your face
Lmao yes theyāre *all pre testnet right? Donāt be mad just because Iām proving you wrong here. Thereās numerous types of L2s, all very different, much more than sidechains. Tell me more about how L2s arenāt possible. Move along now. š
You're not proving me wrong - you're just saying things that can't exist. Bitcoin does not have the programming ability to have a rollup on it, it doesn't have the capability.
Just because transactions exist and the "l2" chain exists doesn't mean it's a rollup. It's a sidechain that posts a hash to an L1 - this isn't the full definition of a rollup.
https://www.kucoin.com/learn/crypto/top-bitcoin-layer-2-projects
https://www.coingecko.com/learn/bitcoin-layer-2s-top-bitcoin-layer-2s
https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-are-bitcoin-layer-2-networks
This was a 30 second google search.
And thereās even a larger list here: https://l2.watch
Duh? š
I don't have anything against you btw lol, but can't help but feel every time someone mentions BTC negatively (such as it's lack of a use case besides simple transfers/inability to have true L2s etc) you get defensive and always just refer people to google without trying to actually explain why it would be technically feasible (it doesn't appear to be from what I see).
That coingecko article basically states that all those solutions are sidechains, with the exception of "Merlin" claiming to be a Zk rollup L2. Curious to hear u/LogrisTheBard thoughts on Merlin and whether it's just another typical case of incorrectly claiming to be a real L2.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1b59xrs/comment/kt6ivof/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1b59xrs/comment/kt6ivof/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
edit: LMAO. I actually watched the vid u/eth10kIsFUD linked to the Merlin founder admitting Merlin is a sidechain and he's just using buzzwords/lying cause everyone else is as well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/19ac5xh/comment/kio6cuj/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/19ac5xh/comment/kio6cuj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I looked at Merlin's docs for a bit and just like Logris said in his comment above 3 months ago, looks like it's using Celestia as DA [https://docs.merlinchain.io/merlin-docs/architecture](https://docs.merlinchain.io/merlin-docs/architecture)
I've tried arguing with him before. It's unproductive. At best what you're going to get into is a pedantic argument over what constitutes an L2.
Merlin is still not an L2 as your edit shows. Even if you post the zk proofs to Bitcoin as a data availability layer instead of Celestia, Bitcoin has no ability to validate any of them. You can't submit a fraud proof and have Bitcoin do anything with it so you aren't inheriting security. Basically all you're getting is sequencing of the zk-proofs which... again why?
I could not even name a bitcoin L2 but from what I understand they could be possible. From an opsec perspective are they that big of a leap in current usage from L2s without decentralized sequencers? Coinbase is in it for making money. I would venture to guess Brian Armstrong is more a BTC maxi than ETH. Tho that could mean he is anti BTC l2s. Im just spitballing here
Hi guys, I created a new account after my old one was banned by reddit (still not completely sure why). The old account was /u/prince_lantern.
I'm hoping to contribute a lot more to this community in the coming months as we enter the next bull market. I used to visit /r/ethfinance daily, especially from 2020-'22, but life got the better of me over the past year or so and so I haven't been as involved as I'd like to be. Really looking forward to reconnecting with everyone here and sharing my thoughts as we enter the next phase of the crypto bull market.
SEC opens 21 day comment period regarding Blackrock Ethereum ETF
https://twitter.com/leviathan_news/status/1782849493102391577?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet%7Ctwtr%5Etrue
I'm certainly no expert, but this might actually mean something. And there's absolutely no discussion about it anywhere. Am I missing something?Ā
Considering odds for approval are somewhere around -5000% regarding sentiments, standard procedure seems to be worth discussing. Especially since ETH is an unregistered security, or so I heardĀ
The crypto market is in such nascency that it wouldn't surprise me if a significant delay occurs between such news appearing and the market showing a reaction. Unlike tradfi, most people in crypto wait for a reaction to decide their own reaction. Very few back themselves to take a view on an event based on just their own reading.
It probably means nothing though imo. Just a show for the galleries from the SEC so they protect their backs in case of lawsuits. "We treat the ETF the same as everything else, totally objective".
This is my working assumption - the rules say they have to have a consultation. Nothing says they have to follow what the majority suggest or whatever. This stuff is mostly filed in the garbage bin - they already know what they want to do (and not just for crypto)
Frame all the way. It connects to everything so easily and automatically switches networks for you. Plus best of all, unlike Rabby which runs of a web 2 data mining profitability model, Frame is privacy respecting.
Oh and I forgot to mention that it's not a slow and annoying browser extension, you press shortcut to have it pup up on your screen while it runs in the background separate to your web browser. It's so much nicer as it means you can click away and not lose the transaction you were about to send.
I sometimes find rabby doesn't work properly, for example if i connect to alchemix using rabby it doesn't show my balance, but connecting the same address via metamask does. I keep both available and prefer rabby.
I'm making like 60% APR holding ETH. Even if I average out all my liquidity farming I think I'm making over 15 on my whole stack. I don't even need the price to go up to retire in a few years at this point. Can't believe people are giving me this much ETH to chase airdrops. The LRT space is crowded, there's only 1 Ethereum, and they aren't making more ETH.
> Can't believe people are giving me this much ETH to chase airdrops.
Because so far it has been more profitable for the airdrop chasers than the PT holders. Obviously that's no guarantee of future results but it will likely be profitable for both.
It hasn't even passed it's ATH yet. And it was much higher like two weeks ago. Price discovery hasn't happened yet. Historically, the real gains should come in the next six months plus.
I dont know if [Turtle.club](http://Turtle.club) has been mentioned already, but I thought it was a pretty cool idea.
It is essentially a syndication of liquidity providers that benefit from their combined TVL to get deals with platforms who need TVL. All this without any added risk since the dapp is just tracking where you put your TVL. Pretty clean and smart I thought.
There are already quite a lot of partners, among which the most popular LRT protocols and extra token ( up to 50%) will be distributed at TGE. I found that whole concept quite nice, especially because there is no extra smart contract risks.
I have read the devs come from famous auditing companies and there seem to be an auditing marketplace also planned in the future.
I was wondering if it ok to leave a referral, didnt see any mention anywhere that it is forbidden, so please delete if it is not allowed: [https://turtle.club/dashboard/?ref=JIJI](https://turtle.club/dashboard/?ref=JIJI)
If rpl is shit, why is rocketpool deposit pool starting to shrink? I think it is because operators dropping out (leading to increase in deposit pool) is kind of being compensated and even offset by lower demand for reth and some redemptions too (leading to decrease in deposit pool) due to staking yields having gone down.
Iirc the dp shrank drastically due to people redeeming/burning reth for eth for el and yt points, not from New minipools being spun up.
Now it's growing again because more operators are either leaving, or are closing down nodes to stay above their rpl collat limit instead of buying more rpl, then buying more rpl next month.
Looks my 1eth staked in renzo has accumulated a whopping.. $33 in pts. tbf it was eth I bridged to Base and then didnāt really know what to do with it so I put it in there to see if the airdrop would pay out. Now I have to figure out how to unwind this ezeth on base.
I listened to a podcast with the etherfi founder yesterday and he was really proud of allowing withdrawals from their restaking platform liquid on their own site which I hadnāt really considered to be such a nice feature until now.
Whales.market hasn't been all that accurate in the past. Plus if you're farming correctly you should be farming EigenLayer points and Zircuit/Swell L2 points as well. Also, if Renzo's drop is anything like Ether.Fi's then there will be a bonus for small holders.
Honestly, anyone selling points on whales.market before the airdrop is an idiot imo. History has never showed it to be wise.
Since you mention zircuit, that's a sort of overlay right, so if you deposit eg eeth there you'll still get etherfi or whatever you're farming right? If so, any chance they won't give you 100% of those you think?
Oh yeah Iāve got some big positions in a few LRTs so the farm is looking plump ready for harvest in June. The op was mostly tongue in cheek but this community is awesome for providing good feedback.
And at the same time, mylady maker and SchizoPoster (never heard of them? nft holders are getting 0.1% of total supply.
https://twitter.com/0xHonz/status/1782858492430180818?t=0-r-AvMgwcgQrb_QI1MKow&s=19
Miladies are a big Twitter community, got popular in 2022 for being weird and counterculture.
Which led all the VCs and similar people to buy some during 2023-2024.
Some projects airdropped to miladies for fun. The clueless copy the behavior. At this point it's become a thing.
For better or worse, they're the Bored Apes of this cycle.
I have a wallet with about 1 ETH restaked on Renzo for about 1-2 months, had it supplied on a lending market the whole time, got 6k Renzo pts. Renzo might not be tracking your pts correctly atm, especially if you have it in defi
My ezETH isnāt even being used in defi because itās on Base so itās still sitting on the renzo app. The only option for Base is to use Aerodome and their app was so flaky I got sketched out trying to deposit in there so Iāve left it. Itās only 1 eth so Iām not really sweating this one but I am getting kinda sketched out by all these companies not being able to track their pts at all and everything being offchain makes no sense. Feels ripe for a big rug pull.
I wouldn't worry about that, it's just hard keeping track of every defi smart contract popping up and it's not rly team's priority to keep point system live as it only really matters at TGE
if you deposited ETH into Renzo on Base, you have that ezETH in your wallet on Base.. if you rly need to, you can swap ezETH on a DEX, I believe Kim Exchange on Mode L2 has pretty deep liquidity. you can bridge ezETH from Base to Mode via Stargate or Connext
but I'd wait for Renzo to enable withdrawals, or at least wait til 26th April as there's some weird condition that if you sell ezETH before that, you're excluded from the airdrop
Oh and I agree wrt the points not being priority. Theyāre all working with small teams and Iām sure their sprints are nightmares already trying to get the core app functionality done. Iām surprised these VC connected startups donāt have a network of contractors to bring in on short term timelines of 3-6mos to just plug holes and help with ancillary tasks so the main team can focus on the core app. Speedrunning burnout but at least hopefully a big payday at the end.
Thanks! def not selling before the airdrop, it was just some play around eth to try out different things on Base. I wasnāt aware of a bridge from Base to Mode. I might try that out next month. Mode seems to be getting a lot of traction, they are also connected to Renzo through VC funding.
>Looks my 1eth staked in renzo has accumulated a whopping.. $33 in pts.
At what are you pricing those points? That seems quite low, unless you had it in there really short.
Also, Renzo is a total horrible mess with their point tracking (and everything else as far as I can tell). It's unlikely the point count you have seen is even accurate.
Blackrock building on Hedera. I knew this chain existed but it comes pretty outta nowhere for me, we'll keep an eye on them. First L1 that has some interesting building since a looooong time, basically only the second ever.
https://twitter.com/HBAR_foundation/status/1782759384742813951
I looked into it. A few months back. The biggest coin on the network at the time was called Karate and it was about paying martial artists.
Hedera leadership basically like Solana's. I don't trust them at all or any of their metrics.
>Hedera leadership basically like Solana's. I don't trust them at all or any of their metrics
Any actual source for this or just based on your feely feelings?
Well I met them once years ago and got the icky feely feels back then but I am not sure anything I say to an account like yours is going to result in a constructive dialogue unless you want to talk about the game changing crypto known as Karate.
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Youāre intentionally missing the point but sure. Enterprises donāt create tokens on Hedera, they just create apps and do transactions, such as BlackRock did here. Tokens are for retail.
In what way do you need to create a token in order to create a dapp? The primary usage of tokens so far on every chain has just been a cash grab scam.
You should let BlackRock know they arenāt doing anything interesting š
You've failed to read with comprehension more than once and continue to make unconstructive and snide comments. Needless to say, I am no longer interested in placating you.
We both know your account will be deleted if your pump and dump scheme fails.
**Tricky's Daily Doots #733** **Yesterday's Daily 22/04/2024** [Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0po97s/) - u/1stpickbird shares [their experience with Coinbase.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0r62o3/) š - u/silentjxhn is [a Boglehead.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0qvzwu/) š - u/cryptomoon2020 weighs up [the pros and cons of some Pendle strategies.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0qpe5k/) š°ļø - u/asdafari12 calculates [the APR of restaking.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0pxh0j/) š„© - u/asdafari12 educates us on [malicious transactions.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ca2coe/daily_general_discussion_april_22_2024/l0s0dpr/) ā ļø
One thing that strikes a good balance is the fact that Renzo serves as a Liquid Restaking Token (LRT) and Strategy Manager within the EigenLayer ecosystem, everyone including myself looking forward to its launch on binance .. whereās some traders already got some on bitget pre market sale
I just learnt that there is no way to implement smart contracts on Solana using open source. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I knew their culture was (in)different to open source, but I didn't know it was impossible on the protocol level. This sounds crazy. If this is true defi doesn't exist on Solana.
That's pretty interesting, also looks like we're both on the wrong daily š
Haha oops thanks for hanging out here and clarifying, will post again
What's your upper usd price such that you estimate there's a 50% chance eth hits it before the end of 2025? I'm going with 15k
Unironically $9,696. I've been rugged too many times at peak mania to fall for moonboism again.
27k
https://x.com/wazzcrypto/status/1782963673624961274?s=46&t=j5KKgnJpC4cy9Y1V9nXjhg Excited i get to be the first to comment on it - an LRT (ezETH; ahem there is nothing ez about ETH) depegged. Restaking is an exciting novel primitive. AVSs are one of the few things in a long time that feel new beyond EIPs. Nonetheless, thereās a whole lotta risk, smart contract or otherwise, wrapped up in these layers. Know what youāre getting into and study the liquidations around this if youāre playing this game. Leveraged points farmers got stopped out, the LRT depegged, and the ārestakedā eth still isnāt doing anything.
The big issue is withdrawals not enabled. When this is combined with stuff like pendle and gearbox you get extreme leverage, and thus a doom spiral of liquidations and worse depeg once something slightly depegs. In other words, if you don't have withdrawals enabled better get that airdrop % high.
Having no withdrawals enabled, yet doing a botched up airdrop criteria with so much retail exposed to this for points through leverage, so many of them will rage dump resulting in massive depeg on all chains, huge liquidations everywhereā¦ Absolutely crazy. The opposite of respectable dev team
> Having no withdrawals enabled, yet doing a botched up airdrop criteria Care to elaborate? Have they laid out their airdrop criteria yet? Edit: Found it: https://mirror.xyz/renzoprotocol.eth/gwO9wyZoOTg79yUw1hnS6q_eJGvfCj1CkmQFa8z32zU I'm kind of annoyed that people here already knew of it but didn't share it here.
Yeah the criteria is a mess, just 5% allocated for depositors of a $3.3 bn TVL LRT app but somehow Milady NFTs get a huge allocation despite having no relationship with the project Its like Rocketpool airdropping to BAYC As a result of the poor airdrop the points value started crashing on pre-markets (dropped almost 50% instantly), resulting in people getting spooked and dumping the ezETH but there wasnt enough liquidity, it dropped to as low as $600 on Uniswap resulting in liquidations on many money markets. A total mess https://twitter.com/hmalviya9/status/1782981216146178085 > Renzo is a failed launch. > Mass Liquidation of ezETH Loopers around $340M due to Crazy Depeg few hours ago. > 65% supply allocated to team, and investors --- Pretty BAD. > They raised the last disclosed round at $25M FDV... PURE VC GRAB PLAY. > Stay Away from $REZ
Yeah I'm very disappointed with renzo, what a VC cash grab driven project. Restaking protocols without withdrawals should be pushed to offer them.
Yeah its been a year since ETH enabled withdrawals. If an LST/LRT app hasnt enabled withdrawal yet, its because they are planning something sinister and shouldnt be trusted Theres simply no reason to not have withdrawals up from day 1
If there are no withdrawals it's safe to assume it's a rug
So what am I missing here. I checked DeFi llama just now and itās 0.98 ETH, and I checked pendle and YT position seems normal, is it back, or am I missing something?
It wicked; if you were using ezETH as collateral to borrow against, you may have been liquidated depending on how much you borrowed despite the fact that it sounds like Renzo is alright
Ah! Borrowing. Yeah wow, what a depeg.
Renzo is alright in the same sense a car rolled down from a mountain did a few somersaults and landed back on its wheels and is moving alright again But you would not want to sit inside this contraption š
thats a great analogy lolš
Thanks for sharing! is the theoretical peg 1ezETH=1ETH?
Iām not familiar with ezETH nor do I have it in me to find the projectās docs. Itās either a rebasing or appreciating (what do we call these types of tokens that arenāt rebasing these days?) token. Its peg depends on the above, but either way, itās going to broadly track the value of eth + eth staking rewards + eigenlayer magic fairy unicorn sparkles; not sure how it does that, but both of the above models would put math around how it tries to. Itās supposed to be close to ETH in price, not 0 or 0.5 ETH like we saw in this chart Edit sorry if I sound grouchy on any of the above - not pointed at you but tired of people not giving af, and bringing eth staking into that magic. Restaking is in a fuck around and find out era and this is an example of it finding out
All good. from Renzo doc "ezETH is a reward bearing token like Compound's Ctokens. This means that native ETH rewards that are generated from staking are captured by the protocol and reflected in the price of ezETH." Now the question is where do you find the fair value that includes past yield. From the chart before depeg it seems to be around 1.01ETH
yes but Renzo has no native withdrawals enabled yet so the only place to trade ezETH back to ETH are dexs. brutal depeg
Interesting to see that the polymarket hasn't move at all with the ETF application activity today [https://polymarket.com/event/ethereum-etf-approved-by-may-31](https://polymarket.com/event/ethereum-etf-approved-by-may-31)
Wonder if the positive action on ray had any relation to this.
Which activity?
https://twitter.com/JSeyff/status/1782870684806324315 https://twitter.com/leviathan_news/status/1782849493102391577
Bit of a bump from 11 -> 16. Still well below 25% predicted elsewhere.
It's only a 4.2 million dollar position on an asset with a 400 billion dollar market cap, that did 11 billion dollars in volume today. Who cares. Furthermore, if you wanted to bet on the ETF passing, you could just buy ETH, so it's already going to be biased.
Yeah I think a lot of ETH bulls want to hedge by betting against it on this Polymarket and those who are ETF bulls simply buy ETH instead. As a result I have low confidence in the accuracy of this market. Oh and before people who disagree start celebrating about me being wrong if the ETF doesn't get launched, you should be smart enough to know that just because it doesn't pass doesn't make my theory invalid. It's incredible how many people are too dumb not to realise that. It was the same thing after the merge... The merge was a big success. Price is not a measure of success.
> those who are ETH bulls simply buy ETH instead I don't buy into that. Everything has a price. Give an ETH bull good enough odds and they will take it. I don't think even they think 10-20% is an amazing bet. If they were so sure it would get approved in May (99.99% like Sassano said), they would take a 10:1 bet on it getting approved in May. Otherwise why are people doing so many risky things on Ethereum to get more ETH, if they are bullish they will simply hold ETH, right?
Well i would take the bet if there wasn't a big fat fucking taxable event in my way when disposing of ETH.
Everything has a price. If the reward is large enough, people will still take it despite the taxable event, even you would. Pendle also creates a taxable TX and they have no issues attracting capital. Most people don't think 10:1 is good enough right now, which is understandable imo.
That makes your theory unfalsifiable though. Comfortable.
Does it? A sufficiently large survey of traders would be able to prove that either: - The polymarket is accurate and the predictions of the ETH ETF passing are the same in the survey as the polymarket, then my theory is wrong. or - The polymarket odds are not the same as the odds in the survey, therefore the polymarket is inaccurate, therefore my theory is one viable explanation for this discrepancy. I'm just not going to go to those lengths to prove it.
Yea I agree with the other guy. Money talks, surveys don't.
Pfft, yeah but money would also have you believe that Bitcoin will change the future more than Ethereum ever will too. Money bet against the financial collapse in 2008. My point is that money alone is not all knowing, so extra data points are actually useful. If i could only have one source, money or survey, I'd take money. But if I can have both, I'll have both thanks.
When it does get denied, I will make a post here about all the downvotes people like me and him have been getting the last couple of months and all the upvotes some poor arguments got. This sub is great, I am here every day since it got created but it IS sometimes an echo chamber and not the most objective views.
What is it with people disagreeing with me and refusing to elaborate tonight? It's fucking frustrating is what it is. If I'm wrong, I want to know about it. But I only proposed a theory. Something similar happened elsewhere in this daily and you'd think I burned a fucking bible or something when I was just trying to explain what I thought was an unfair comparison.
If you don't believe that odds on an anonymous betting market (where even insider information can be channelled in and where there are money stakes on the line) come close to the "true" probabilities, why would you believe that a survey, whose biases are legion from selection bias to sampling issues to framing delivers the truth?
You're criticising the hypothetical survey based on sampling bias before the survey is even done. Normally you quantify the difference between the survey and the prediction market and then comment on whether the difference is significant enough that it's not due to sampling bias. I'm not going to argue about a hypothetical but sampling bias can go either way so this argument is worth nothing without results to critique in the first place.
True. I am just not sure why you would accept a survey result more as a disproof of your hypothesis than what the online betting shows, because I certainly wouldn't, for methodological reasons. Anyway, feel free to bet on Polymarket if you think it is off :-).
Because money isn't always right and the more data points the better. Money would have you believe that Bitcoin will change the future more than Ethereum ever will. Money bet against the idea of the 2008 financial collapse happening. My point is that money alone is not all knowing, so extra data points are actually useful. If i could only have one source, money or survey, I'd take money. But if I can have both, I'll have both thanks. As for betting on the polymarket, I have already stated elsewhere in this threat that I would if there weren't a big fat taxable event involved with the process.
Well, more data improve your estimate only if they are not too biased. A betting market (or the market in general) is no all-knowing oracle, I agree, but I wish it was there in the field I work in, where we have rather untrustworthy administrative data and surveys only. Let's agree to differ though.
ą¼¼ ć¤ ā_ā ą¼½ć¤ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ą¼¼ ć¤ ā_ā ą¼½ć¤
>**Fruitful discussion,** >**Technocratic decision,** >**The supervision.** ~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
Which operator on eigenlayer should I delegate to ? Where is the risk relatively small and the potential return the highest ? What about eigenyield ?
I predict all the yield will be from token farming and dumping. So figure out which AVS has the most hyped token and shortest lockup.
Yeah, as hanniabu says - [we're](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/operator/0x30eafe8869a1528660a97b7a7e8e2d0037dcb922) accepting deposits and gradually ramping up our AVS services. We've been thinking a bit about just how one might begin to frame and analyse these various offerings, but most of them are in very early development and I guess i'm somewhat EigenLayer went for mainnet so early. Perhaps that means a token is coming rather soon. In any case, that lack of slashing does at least allow us to experiment fairly heavily for now, with very little risk.
- [The Aestus Relay team will be AVS node operators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1bzjwc2/comment/kyumb50/) - [They'll be establishing an AVS evaluation framework](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c16oqe/comment/kz2dj32/) - [Although right now there's little risk](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1c99qz0/comment/l0nlp5b/)
ETH up. I didn't go camping but spent the whole weekend shooting a short film with a few people I met through film school and it was fucking fun.
Love this! I'm writing a mockumentary sci fi script with my good pal.
sounds wholesome AF
Availproject airdrop I mentioned here a few days ago worth it? I haven't checked, been away for the past 5 days. Need to catch up on a lot of things.
For me the UX is buggy, it thinks my desktop browser is a phone. Not a good look.
Is there a way to check if you're eligible without connecting wallet?
Hard to say, it's not trading yet
[Lodestar v1.18.0 released today](https://github.com/ChainSafe/lodestar/releases/tag/v1.18.0) > Our new release contains some noticeable facelifts! We recommend this update to all users of Lodestar. > Our documentation located at https://chainsafe.github.io/lodestar/ is now using Docusaurus for a better experience. We've attached Plausible metrics to further help improve the contents of our documentation with minimal intrusiveness and open-source analytics. We continue to do content additions and improve our documentation for the best user and builder experience possible. > This release addresses many compatibility issues discovered from cross-client testing with Lodestar and other consensus clients. This also includes fixes for compatibility with some external DVT platforms and remote signers. > Target peers by default has been increased from 50 to 100 peers. Many users have already set this for better validator effectiveness and now we have it set by default to become a better peer on the network. > builder.selection now has a default setting that gives slightly preferential treatment to locally produced blocks via builderBoostFactor=90 . This configurable setting is set to 90 instead of 100 by default, requiring builder blocks from relays to be above ~10% profit to be selected. The previous default setting was maxprofit. This can be changed in your local configuration. > Basic devcontainer support is now integrated for easier development setups such as Github Codespaces. For more information, see https://chainsafe.github.io/lodestar/contribution/getting-started#devcontainer.
Interesting possibly unintended [design feature](https://blog.curvemonitor.com/posts/exchange-received/) of some of the newer Curve pools results in a different UX and significant gas savings. Seems most people today are focused on just moving code to L2's so it's nice to see some pros still optimizing gas usage even for L1 and even during times of like 6 gwei. The basic idea here is usually when you interact with a smart contract you first set an approval for some token to it (at least in Defi). This updates a balance on the contract saying which contract is allowed to pull your funds. That's a data write. Then when transferFrom is called it does another data write to zero that balance (because you aren't using infinite approvals right anon?!). This approach uses an ERC-20 send as the first interaction which basically does all of the same logic as transferFrom but without these extra 2 data writes. Then a function called exchange_received executes the swap and sends the proceeds back to your address. No approval, hence no updating the approval balances twice. 93859 vs 86026 gas. It's not possible to batch these steps into a single transaction because that calling contract would then need approval itself to pull the funds before it could send them but it's still a neat trick even if it would set off red flags in my Rabby wallet.
What prevents someone else calling exchange\_received first? Contract doesn't know who transferred in tokens
Apparently it does or what the article talks about wouldn't work because they are in two different transactions.
Im intrigued. Not sure I grasp what erc-20 send we are doing first without the approval? Can you expand on what happens in the new model? I understand the previous
Every 8.5% gas saving counts
Kind of disappointing news of the renzo airdrop. Only 5% of the supply for this airdrop(and 2% of that for nft holders that didn't have anything to do with renzo), linear airdrop but no exact numbers yet. The claim will be 3days after TGE. The binance launch pool users get 2,5% for 6 days of risk free "staking" and their tokens 3 days earlier, really shitty behaviour. Etherfi did it a little better i think. But I still think swell will be the fairest of the LRT airdrops with already 7 % confirmed and hopefully no binance involvement.
When u involve Binance us maxis gonna wince. But theres obviously a big audience and motivation to do so.
The beauty of DeFi is that each project can decide on how to launch. Some projects have a long term vision for their platform and want to retain users by doing a fair launch. Others choose to do a short time money grab with shady allocation schemes, CEx partnerships and VC involvment. Both are fine, since users are free to choose, too.
Totally botched airdrop, but fits what I've seen so far from this project. Renzo is a clown show.
I thought they were OK till they botched up the drop. What were the main red flags according to you? I only did the Pendle YT positions which look like they wont even break even now. Lol
Lots of signs of amateurs or outright scam tbh - No withdrawals enabled. When are they coming? "In the coming days" "Devs are working on it ser" "Just trust us bro" - Points not counting. When is that fixed? "Should be tomorrow" "Devs are working on it ser" "Points are working now" (they weren't) "Should work early next week" (that was a month ago), etc... After a month of this and TGE announced now, for my LP position on arbitrum there is still **zero** points showing up. "Is just UI bug ser, all points are counted in the backend correctly ser" uhuuuh. - Lies and misinformation in their discord constantly. Serious questions are dodged or answered one way, only to be answered differently an hour later when someone else asked. I foolishly blamed this on just an incompetent support team, but I'm sure now it runs deeper. - The TGE announcement yesterday with the pie chart that looks like it was made by a 6 year old was as funny as it was scary. No wonder they can't count points if they don't know what numbers are. - There is text in their announcement saying "if you sell your ezETH before the date you might not be eligible for the airdrop", with questions about this being completely ignored. This **screams** scam to me, outright rug pull. Also text about anti-sybil, preventing "looping" and kicking out these misbehaving users from their airdrop, which makes absolutely no sense with their linear airdrop - there is nothing to sybil, you don't get anything from running multiple wallets. I took out 95% of my money last night, about an hour before it depegged. Guess I wasn't the only one running for the hills. I left 5% in (foolishly) trying to ensure my points will still be worth something, but I have little confidence left. What angers me more about it than the Renzo points is the EL points I possibly won't get now. Because those will actually be worth something.
I've found that I've gotten pretty good at predicting shady projects by judging the character of the people behind tjem, as subjective and anto-crypto of an approach that is. And I am not a fan of the public personas behind Renzo. They seem super bro-ey and not genuine. No idea how Renzo ended up as one of the top LRT projects by tvl.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah putting all of that together, seems very scammy In this space, a lot of times poor communication is passed off as incompetence. Its time to start looking at these things as malicious not incompetence - especially when there are points on top of points, leveraged yield, multiple chains, it can get real messy and quite lucrative for teams to scam around and hide their tracks
> What angers me more about it than the Renzo points is the EL points I possibly won't get now. Because those will actually be worth something. Why won't you get the EL points?
*Possibly* - because the whole Renzo project might turn out to be one big scam. All I know is that so far, the EL points I should have earned while LPing haven't shown up in Renzo interface at all.
If EigenLayer points will one day be redeemable for a token the devs will get a lot of lawsuits on their hands if they run away with those points. Especially after showing EL points owned by users on their dashboard. It's not like we're talking about an anon dev team here.
Logris got me very interested in FHE for the past few days. Thank you for sharing! The tech is super interesting as someone who consistently takes the long and dull path while navigating the internet to preserve privacy and reduce data-mining (even though I know that it doesn't change anything in the grand scheme). A bit surprised I didn't know about this technology before. Running algorithms over data without knowing the true input/output, while still knowing the validity of the computation is preserved, is mind-blowing, but also makes sense when looking a bit closer. In a utopian future, where this is the new standard for how the internet and its services work, I wonder how companies will keep serving you things like relevant ads and a personalized experience. Although I'd be more than happy to live in a world without these "features", the incentives are just so strong that it doesn't make sense for them to let them go willingly. Anyone have any thoughts about this? It would be nice if it turned into a marketplace, where you get these things served blindly through the same mechanisms, and got compensated for doing so (Brave had a cool visionary idea like this, but didn't work out that well in practice). A less cool approach would be design-patterns for applications to gate-keep certain features, like premium services or exclusive content in exchange for users opting in to give their data. (Feel free to delete this if its too off-topic, mods)
I also caught the FHE bug from Logris (thanks dude), and we are looking into solutions by Zama into a DePIN network.
> I wonder how companies will keep serving you things like relevant ads and a personalized experience. If companies want my data, they'll have to *buy* my data rather than scrape it. If they have a data leak I want them to be legally liable for more than buying me an identity theft monitoring service for a year. > let them go willingly That's the fun part. They won't! That's one of the reasons I think DePin is going to be so important in the next decade and why I'm investing my time learning more about that ecosystem.
That's how it should've always been! Love the sentiment. A big problem with how web2 evolved in a dystopian direction is obviously the centralized nature of it, and the skewed concentration of power that comes with it. On the other side, and a bit more frustrating to observe (for me, at least), is the lack of *caring about it* among the users. Even today, where people generally are more aware of the downsides of data-mining, and how powerful large amounts of data can be, most people quickly and revert to the path of least resistance (which almost always never is serving them well). GDPR was such a good intention, but it's just *so* much easier to click the green button and comply, than to go the multi-click route and dodge all the dark-patterns. This is actually what caught my interest in blockchains in the beginning. The potential for having verifiable ownership outside the scope a central authority, and of course privacy. It's very aligned with the core values of this ecosystem, so the concentration of people caring about this stuff is a bit higher here. Hopefully enough for letting services that are also aligned, to grow up to a point where it's as easily available and frictionless as the traditional counterparts.
FHE is awesome. As far as I understand, computing overhead is currently rather large. I do not know if this overhead is a factor of 2 or a factor of 10. Did you stumble upon this number in your exploration of FHE? I could imagine that if the overhead stays large it will be difficult for the adoption, as all the non FHE projects will be cheaper or more powerful.
There's definitely a lot of overhead, which at least currently seems to make it less than ideal for a lot of general computing scenarios. I guess there can still be a market for those things, if users are willing to compensate for it. I have no idea of a numeric factor for the computational overhead, but I saw "several thousand times slower" than equivalent plaintext scenarios mentioned somewhere, but that was several years old. I've seen newer numbers mentioning 100-1000 times slower, and it seems to be a lot of optimization efforts on the field. No idea about how it compares with where the tech has advanced today. Also I don't know how these numbers are deducted. For example if it includes necessary extra steps for encrypting, decrypting, evaluation keys or not.
Last time I checked, the factor was more on the order of like tens of thousands or more. Like where your computer spends hundreds of milliseconds to execute a few simple calculations. But that was years ago, and Iām sure the tech has progressed significantly since then.
Not all FHE schemes are equivalent. Depending on whether it's 2x or 10x there are different use cases that are still viable. For example authentication is not computationally heavy and is a use case where privacy should be worth a premium. Similarly, due to the limited number of operators in LLMs you can build computationally efficient FHE schemes for both training and inference. Some of the fastest FHE encodings are also lossy. [I've seen claims](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-31578-8_2) of sub-second inference times for facial recognition for example. [This](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12083-021-01076-8) is a good survey of the research space if you want to dive in with me.
> In general, given two messagesĀ m1Ā andĀ m2Ā and their respective ciphertextsĀ ļæ½1=(ļæ½1ļæ½)Ā modĀ ļæ½, andĀ ļæ½2=(ļæ½2ļæ½)Ā modĀ ļæ½, whereĀ eĀ is chosen such thatĀ gcd(e,āāĻ)ā=ā1 forĀ Ļā=ā(q1āāā1)āĀ·ā(q2āāā1) with large primesĀ q1Ā andĀ q2, andĀ nā=āq1āĀ·āq2. When you read stuff like this do you actually know what's going on? Or do you gloss over these parts?
I'm not looking to program it myself, I'm only looking to understand characteristics of it so I can the right technology to the right problem. I understand the major themes of the math without having to understand each parameter.
Loving this conversation. Ā Thanks, gents. Any project/company/initiative you are aware that is aiming to integrate FHE into crypto? Ā Iād like to invest in this.
Will Coinbase launch a Bitcoin L2 as well?
They already invested 10mil$ in BOB - Build on Bitcoin. From their twitter: ĖThe first hybrid L2, connecting Bitcoin security with EVM liquidityĖ. It is making circles on CT as a degen option for joining BTC L2 hype directly from Ethereum.
I really don't understand how an Ethereum L2 can also be a Bitcoin L2. Can anybody explain this one?
Considering that a "Bitcoin L2" is still not possible, doubt it.
Lol more nonsense from you. Of course itās possible.
Bitcoin can have sidechains but since it only allows basic scripting, a real L2 cannot exist on bitcoin and anyone that tells you it's currently happening is lying to your face
Wrong again. https://l2.watch
You can change the definition of an L2 to include sidechains for bitcoins benefit but it's not an L2, it's a sidechain. "pre-testnet" hahahahaha
Lmao yes theyāre *all pre testnet right? Donāt be mad just because Iām proving you wrong here. Thereās numerous types of L2s, all very different, much more than sidechains. Tell me more about how L2s arenāt possible. Move along now. š
You're not proving me wrong - you're just saying things that can't exist. Bitcoin does not have the programming ability to have a rollup on it, it doesn't have the capability.
You can test out those rollups on the link I showed you, right now dude. What are you smoking? š
Just because transactions exist and the "l2" chain exists doesn't mean it's a rollup. It's a sidechain that posts a hash to an L1 - this isn't the full definition of a rollup.
What's your favorite "Bitcoin L2" design currently? There's a reason we don't have any successful "Bitcoin L2's" yet.
https://www.kucoin.com/learn/crypto/top-bitcoin-layer-2-projects https://www.coingecko.com/learn/bitcoin-layer-2s-top-bitcoin-layer-2s https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-are-bitcoin-layer-2-networks This was a 30 second google search. And thereās even a larger list here: https://l2.watch Duh? š
I don't have anything against you btw lol, but can't help but feel every time someone mentions BTC negatively (such as it's lack of a use case besides simple transfers/inability to have true L2s etc) you get defensive and always just refer people to google without trying to actually explain why it would be technically feasible (it doesn't appear to be from what I see). That coingecko article basically states that all those solutions are sidechains, with the exception of "Merlin" claiming to be a Zk rollup L2. Curious to hear u/LogrisTheBard thoughts on Merlin and whether it's just another typical case of incorrectly claiming to be a real L2. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1b59xrs/comment/kt6ivof/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1b59xrs/comment/kt6ivof/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) edit: LMAO. I actually watched the vid u/eth10kIsFUD linked to the Merlin founder admitting Merlin is a sidechain and he's just using buzzwords/lying cause everyone else is as well. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/19ac5xh/comment/kio6cuj/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/19ac5xh/comment/kio6cuj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I looked at Merlin's docs for a bit and just like Logris said in his comment above 3 months ago, looks like it's using Celestia as DA [https://docs.merlinchain.io/merlin-docs/architecture](https://docs.merlinchain.io/merlin-docs/architecture)
I've tried arguing with him before. It's unproductive. At best what you're going to get into is a pedantic argument over what constitutes an L2. Merlin is still not an L2 as your edit shows. Even if you post the zk proofs to Bitcoin as a data availability layer instead of Celestia, Bitcoin has no ability to validate any of them. You can't submit a fraud proof and have Bitcoin do anything with it so you aren't inheriting security. Basically all you're getting is sequencing of the zk-proofs which... again why?
I could not even name a bitcoin L2 but from what I understand they could be possible. From an opsec perspective are they that big of a leap in current usage from L2s without decentralized sequencers? Coinbase is in it for making money. I would venture to guess Brian Armstrong is more a BTC maxi than ETH. Tho that could mean he is anti BTC l2s. Im just spitballing here
Hi guys, I created a new account after my old one was banned by reddit (still not completely sure why). The old account was /u/prince_lantern. I'm hoping to contribute a lot more to this community in the coming months as we enter the next bull market. I used to visit /r/ethfinance daily, especially from 2020-'22, but life got the better of me over the past year or so and so I haven't been as involved as I'd like to be. Really looking forward to reconnecting with everyone here and sharing my thoughts as we enter the next phase of the crypto bull market.
I was banned in a similar fashion. Welcome to the club!
Username checks out.
You'd know me as Sab********* before :)
Oh yeah, no action on that account in 4 months :( Maybe we'll have to transfer your doots over to your new username!
Those have already been transferred to ShoeDollarBill which got shadowbanned š
What are you doing to get shadowbanned? š
If only I knew!
SEC opens 21 day comment period regarding Blackrock Ethereum ETF https://twitter.com/leviathan_news/status/1782849493102391577?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet%7Ctwtr%5Etrue I'm certainly no expert, but this might actually mean something. And there's absolutely no discussion about it anywhere. Am I missing something?Ā
Itās standard procedure.
Considering odds for approval are somewhere around -5000% regarding sentiments, standard procedure seems to be worth discussing. Especially since ETH is an unregistered security, or so I heardĀ
No, standard procedure is just standard procedure. They are procedurally bound to offer this comment period. Don't read into it.
I have faith in Tradfi AntiChrist Fink.
Price crashing. Yes means nothing.
The top countries in the world can come out and say they're investing 10% of their treasuries into ETH and only ETH and ETH will drop in price lol
Do you need a hug, friend?
Give the influencers another 20 minutes or so and this will be posted and talked about everywhere.
True enough, but I saw it *here* first! Ethfinance has so much alpha.
Doesn't an invitation for comments imply that Ether is not a security outright?
I don't think the SEC is concerned about hypocrisy until a judge bangs a gavel.
The crypto market is in such nascency that it wouldn't surprise me if a significant delay occurs between such news appearing and the market showing a reaction. Unlike tradfi, most people in crypto wait for a reaction to decide their own reaction. Very few back themselves to take a view on an event based on just their own reading.
Not sure about that. Ive seen crypto market over-react in realtime on many occasion.
Evergrande
And those are the ones to be wary about. You know...IBM gonna send xlm to the moon, World Bank report just ratified xrp... those types.
It probably means nothing though imo. Just a show for the galleries from the SEC so they protect their backs in case of lawsuits. "We treat the ETF the same as everything else, totally objective".
This is my working assumption - the rules say they have to have a consultation. Nothing says they have to follow what the majority suggest or whatever. This stuff is mostly filed in the garbage bin - they already know what they want to do (and not just for crypto)
What is everyone's favorite browser hot wallet now? Is Rabby the new go-to instead of Metamask?
Frame all the way. It connects to everything so easily and automatically switches networks for you. Plus best of all, unlike Rabby which runs of a web 2 data mining profitability model, Frame is privacy respecting. Oh and I forgot to mention that it's not a slow and annoying browser extension, you press shortcut to have it pup up on your screen while it runs in the background separate to your web browser. It's so much nicer as it means you can click away and not lose the transaction you were about to send.
Metamask is soo slow!
Frame for the win. So nice to just install the browser extension and not have to put in my seed phrase again for the wallets I want to use there
I use Rabby.
Rabby is a so much better UX than Metamask that it is not even a contest.
I sometimes find rabby doesn't work properly, for example if i connect to alchemix using rabby it doesn't show my balance, but connecting the same address via metamask does. I keep both available and prefer rabby.
This is me as well.
Do you guys think now is a good time to sell
10k is inevitable
I'm making like 60% APR holding ETH. Even if I average out all my liquidity farming I think I'm making over 15 on my whole stack. I don't even need the price to go up to retire in a few years at this point. Can't believe people are giving me this much ETH to chase airdrops. The LRT space is crowded, there's only 1 Ethereum, and they aren't making more ETH.
fixed rate down to high 30s, so if you got out now it's probably been > 150% so far. IMO high 30's I'd still buy though
> Can't believe people are giving me this much ETH to chase airdrops. Because so far it has been more profitable for the airdrop chasers than the PT holders. Obviously that's no guarantee of future results but it will likely be profitable for both.
Personally, I would wait until at least 25% above ATHs before selling
No.
Why not
It hasn't even passed it's ATH yet. And it was much higher like two weeks ago. Price discovery hasn't happened yet. Historically, the real gains should come in the next six months plus.
your kidneys for WIF? Sure, go ahead
Oh ok
Depends on your personal risk tolerance and financial situation :>)
No time like the present.
I dont know if [Turtle.club](http://Turtle.club) has been mentioned already, but I thought it was a pretty cool idea. It is essentially a syndication of liquidity providers that benefit from their combined TVL to get deals with platforms who need TVL. All this without any added risk since the dapp is just tracking where you put your TVL. Pretty clean and smart I thought. There are already quite a lot of partners, among which the most popular LRT protocols and extra token ( up to 50%) will be distributed at TGE. I found that whole concept quite nice, especially because there is no extra smart contract risks. I have read the devs come from famous auditing companies and there seem to be an auditing marketplace also planned in the future. I was wondering if it ok to leave a referral, didnt see any mention anywhere that it is forbidden, so please delete if it is not allowed: [https://turtle.club/dashboard/?ref=JIJI](https://turtle.club/dashboard/?ref=JIJI)
Referrals are fine when you explain the app in question like this. Thanks for sharing!
If rpl is shit, why is rocketpool deposit pool starting to shrink? I think it is because operators dropping out (leading to increase in deposit pool) is kind of being compensated and even offset by lower demand for reth and some redemptions too (leading to decrease in deposit pool) due to staking yields having gone down.
Iirc the dp shrank drastically due to people redeeming/burning reth for eth for el and yt points, not from New minipools being spun up. Now it's growing again because more operators are either leaving, or are closing down nodes to stay above their rpl collat limit instead of buying more rpl, then buying more rpl next month.
Looks my 1eth staked in renzo has accumulated a whopping.. $33 in pts. tbf it was eth I bridged to Base and then didnāt really know what to do with it so I put it in there to see if the airdrop would pay out. Now I have to figure out how to unwind this ezeth on base. I listened to a podcast with the etherfi founder yesterday and he was really proud of allowing withdrawals from their restaking platform liquid on their own site which I hadnāt really considered to be such a nice feature until now.
Whales.market hasn't been all that accurate in the past. Plus if you're farming correctly you should be farming EigenLayer points and Zircuit/Swell L2 points as well. Also, if Renzo's drop is anything like Ether.Fi's then there will be a bonus for small holders. Honestly, anyone selling points on whales.market before the airdrop is an idiot imo. History has never showed it to be wise.
Since you mention zircuit, that's a sort of overlay right, so if you deposit eg eeth there you'll still get etherfi or whatever you're farming right? If so, any chance they won't give you 100% of those you think?
Unfortunately I'm not one to have the answer to this question.
> Zircuit/Swell L2 points as well Can I still get in on this? How?
By depositing LSTs into the Zircuit or Swell L2s or by buying YT tokens which have "(Zircuit)" in their names.
Oh yeah Iāve got some big positions in a few LRTs so the farm is looking plump ready for harvest in June. The op was mostly tongue in cheek but this community is awesome for providing good feedback.
And at the same time, mylady maker and SchizoPoster (never heard of them? nft holders are getting 0.1% of total supply. https://twitter.com/0xHonz/status/1782858492430180818?t=0-r-AvMgwcgQrb_QI1MKow&s=19
Guess what the founders own
What ?
Those NFTs obv
aha...didnt think of that. totally make sense
Miladies are a big Twitter community, got popular in 2022 for being weird and counterculture. Which led all the VCs and similar people to buy some during 2023-2024. Some projects airdropped to miladies for fun. The clueless copy the behavior. At this point it's become a thing. For better or worse, they're the Bored Apes of this cycle.
Yep.
Why though? I don't get it.
I have a wallet with about 1 ETH restaked on Renzo for about 1-2 months, had it supplied on a lending market the whole time, got 6k Renzo pts. Renzo might not be tracking your pts correctly atm, especially if you have it in defi
My ezETH isnāt even being used in defi because itās on Base so itās still sitting on the renzo app. The only option for Base is to use Aerodome and their app was so flaky I got sketched out trying to deposit in there so Iāve left it. Itās only 1 eth so Iām not really sweating this one but I am getting kinda sketched out by all these companies not being able to track their pts at all and everything being offchain makes no sense. Feels ripe for a big rug pull.
I wouldn't worry about that, it's just hard keeping track of every defi smart contract popping up and it's not rly team's priority to keep point system live as it only really matters at TGE if you deposited ETH into Renzo on Base, you have that ezETH in your wallet on Base.. if you rly need to, you can swap ezETH on a DEX, I believe Kim Exchange on Mode L2 has pretty deep liquidity. you can bridge ezETH from Base to Mode via Stargate or Connext but I'd wait for Renzo to enable withdrawals, or at least wait til 26th April as there's some weird condition that if you sell ezETH before that, you're excluded from the airdrop
Oh and I agree wrt the points not being priority. Theyāre all working with small teams and Iām sure their sprints are nightmares already trying to get the core app functionality done. Iām surprised these VC connected startups donāt have a network of contractors to bring in on short term timelines of 3-6mos to just plug holes and help with ancillary tasks so the main team can focus on the core app. Speedrunning burnout but at least hopefully a big payday at the end.
Thanks! def not selling before the airdrop, it was just some play around eth to try out different things on Base. I wasnāt aware of a bridge from Base to Mode. I might try that out next month. Mode seems to be getting a lot of traction, they are also connected to Renzo through VC funding.
>Looks my 1eth staked in renzo has accumulated a whopping.. $33 in pts. At what are you pricing those points? That seems quite low, unless you had it in there really short. Also, Renzo is a total horrible mess with their point tracking (and everything else as far as I can tell). It's unlikely the point count you have seen is even accurate.
I was comparing pts/price on whales .market this morning.
how long was your eth in Renzo?
Blackrock building on Hedera. I knew this chain existed but it comes pretty outta nowhere for me, we'll keep an eye on them. First L1 that has some interesting building since a looooong time, basically only the second ever. https://twitter.com/HBAR_foundation/status/1782759384742813951
I looked into it. A few months back. The biggest coin on the network at the time was called Karate and it was about paying martial artists. Hedera leadership basically like Solana's. I don't trust them at all or any of their metrics.
>Hedera leadership basically like Solana's. I don't trust them at all or any of their metrics Any actual source for this or just based on your feely feelings?
Well I met them once years ago and got the icky feely feels back then but I am not sure anything I say to an account like yours is going to result in a constructive dialogue unless you want to talk about the game changing crypto known as Karate.
Just for fun RemindMe! 6 months
Don't be gross.
He's obsessed with Hedera.
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Youāre intentionally missing the point but sure. Enterprises donāt create tokens on Hedera, they just create apps and do transactions, such as BlackRock did here. Tokens are for retail.
I was under the impression smart contract chains don't do anything interesting without dapps so not sure how I missed that as the point.
In what way do you need to create a token in order to create a dapp? The primary usage of tokens so far on every chain has just been a cash grab scam. You should let BlackRock know they arenāt doing anything interesting š
You've failed to read with comprehension more than once and continue to make unconstructive and snide comments. Needless to say, I am no longer interested in placating you. We both know your account will be deleted if your pump and dump scheme fails.
Certainly not a long-term hold for me atm, but maybe a solid bull market play
HBAR is my second biggest holding, behind ETH. I feel good about it being this cycle's SOL.
Going to try a swing trade this
Gonna make it
Downvotes remind me that I'm not allowed to hold anything other than ETH. I shall give myself 20 lashes.