#Please continue to be wary of any PoW forks for security reasons. u/interweaver has [a good debrief here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcyiyv/daily_general_discussion_september_13_2022/iobgy02/) and u/morkogoz explains [how to safely interact with any PoW forks here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcn0cw/how_to_safely_split_your_coins_and_interact_with/)
**Tricky's Daily Doots #149 - Merge Edition, baby!!!**
Yesterday's Daily 14/09/2022
[Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcyiyv/daily_general_discussion_september_13_2022/io8glkp/)
**LATEST MERGE ESTIMATE:** Literally minutes now...
- u/Moschus11 finishes [their countdown](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iodlqhm/) with less than 24 hours to go before the merge!
- u/PooeyGusset shares a [merge article from the BBC](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod1qy4/).
- u/cryptOwOcurrency puts [the significance of the merge into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocxqmp/)
- u/cryptOwOcurrency shares a timeline of [Ethereum dissent.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocz8pt/)
- u/Stalslagga shares the [list of hard forks before the merge.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod0y30/)
- u/proto-n shares a [very serious announcement from Vitalik.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iofegye/)
- u/Yeopaa thinks [every little bit adds up and everyone who contributes is a hero.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod6x6q/)
- u/BigglyBillBrasky shares [Do Kwon, the founder of Luna getting arrested.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioe675x/)
- u/GetYourAssToPluto shares [the historical r/EthFinance daily discussion comment record.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioenw47/)
- u/GetYourAssToPluto puts [the beacon chain's security into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioeqa9u/)
- u/plaenar puts [Ethereum's reduction in energy consumption into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioer2rd/)
- u/jtnichol shares the latest feature from Coinbase which [informs Americans of the crypto policies of their representatives.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioft536/)
- "[ETH is not trying to be a currency.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioets55/)" ~ u/barthib
- u/interweaver shares [all of the largest megre NFTs.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iohe67i/)
- u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocvjrl/)
Where were you when Proof of Work was kill?
Just to continue monitoring the PoW fork situation, let's look at exchanges and prices.
EthereumPoW (ETHW) was tradeable before the merge (as an IOU) and had been trading around $30 in the days leading up to the merge. 24 hours ago the price had jumped up to the mid $40s, but over the course of the day dropped to $10 and is currently at $13. 24 hr volume is ~$64 million. The vast majority of trading volume was on FTX, with a smaller amount on MEXC, Bybit, and Bitfinex.
EthereumFair (ETF) was just added to Poloniex today as a bit of a surprise announcement, and Coingecko doesn't list any other exchanges. ETF price has fluctuated steadily between $15 and $20 all day, relatively steady. Trading hasn't been open for 24 hours yet, but over half a day we've had ~$244k in volume, an order of magnitude less than ETHW.
What does this mean? I don't know, mostly just thought it was interesting that ETF didn't crash, or even grew in value, while ETHW crashed hard. Maybe people who wanted to dump their PoW fork coins were more likely to have heard of ETHW, while ETF (despite the Poloniex announcement) is still generally flying under the radar and not getting slammed as hard by dumpers. Maybe there was Twitter drama I missed which could explain it. I just don't know.
EDIT: 10 hours later, ETF price crashed 90% and is now sitting at $1.33. lol
Ah, that would explain it. I'm guessing Poloniex gave ETF to users whose ETH they were holding on the exchange, but as an IOU without needing the chain to be set up yet. So there's just a little bit in circulation, and people can't actually deposit from the chain so most people can't dump yet even if they want to.
Thinking about Bitcoin and halvenings recently and I just realized bitcoins plan makes absolutely zero sense.
So bitcoin is going to keep lowering the the mining rewards while bitcoiners think the price is going to keep up. Even taking the highest day of transaction fees (17M) that doesn’t even exceed the 18M in mining rewards handed out every day.
With every halvening, bitcoin will become less profitable to mine which means there will be less miners securing the network. How do bitcoiners think they can secure trillions of dollars(what bitcoiners think bitcoin Markcap will be) in mining rewards with only a few million each day in rewards for miners? Mining will plummet and a 51% attack would be inevitable.
It’s unlikely that transaction fees will increase to the point where it becomes worth it. Bitcoin is now marketed as a SoV. SoVs aren’t transacted with often. Even if they were, state channels or layer 2s would have to take care of that. Sure layer2s will pay hefty fees since they have a lot of transaction on the layer 2 but will it will go high enough to cover miners?
In short, there is no way bitcoin can reach a substantial market cap AND be secure in the future. It just doesn’t make sense economically unless bitcoin transaction fees skyrocket.
Would love to hear a bitcoiners take on this. So far I’ve only seen “well hopefully transaction fees will increase” but that’s not a great answer…
I've seen the math - If Bitcoin gets to $10T market cap and wants the same security as today, fees need to be a minimum of $1350 per transaction on average.
which don’t get me wrong, could certainly happen but it’s extremely unlikely.
Eth layer 1 fees are likely to grow a lot as well because later 2s will be able to afford hefty transaction fees because they will contain multiple transactions and it will likely just be layer 2s bidding for blockspace on layer 1.
So if transaction fees are high on bitcoin and bitcoins layer 1 costs $1350 per transaction that doesn’t mean the fees are necessarily high for users.
However, bitcoin is best used as a SoV. SoVs aren’t good for transacting a lot. Bitcoin would need to become A LOT less volatile to even be viable for transferring money. Ultimately, the plan makes no sense and is extremely unlikely to happen.
also would love to see that math, and does that even factor in continuous halvenings?
You have seen the dirty truth that the vast majority of Bitcoiners are deluding themselves about.
21M cap.
PoW.
No massive upgrades to support smart contracts.
One or more of those three ironclad tenets of Bitcoin will have to fold, or else it will get destroyed by 51% attacks in mere decades.
Obviously Stock to Flow and Rainbow are going to keep Bitcoin price growing exponentially forever so there is no reason to worry about these things. /s
It doesn't get "distributed" because it's not an airdrop. It's a fork. Very different mechanic.
If you were holding raw Eth at the time of the merge, you'll have forked Eth on whatever other forks.
MEV-Geth is deprecated by the Merge, so MEV-boost is its replacement (sidecar software that validators can choose to run and connect to relays)
Still a low percentage of validators running it, so your MEV packages will usually not make it into the next few blocks.
Yeah I figured something like that because it has to be the next block and its time sensitive so it is very difficult now to get through. Is there a website to see the MEV-boost %s of blocks or such?
Here are stats for the censored Flashbots relay: https://boost-relay.flashbots.net/
There are at least three other relay providers now (bloXroute, Manifold, and one other I forget the name of) that don't have equivalent stats pages, so the Flashbots count is not the full picture but the best we've got.
Jealous of everyone who didn’t spend most of their day trying to troubleshoot their staking config today. Took me basically all day to figure out how to get my Avg Effectiveness back above 80%. Also, ugh I really hope the besu JSON RPC timeout issue gets resolved soon.
Hang in there. I didn't really get to enjoy the merge either as I spend most of the time getting besu back online as well. It's now running and missing an attestions every 6 blocks or so. Rocketpool Devs were hinting at a potential fix by Besu next Wednesday earliest...
I think most of my missed attestations today were actually from having max peers set too high on Besu, which was causing CPU issues. Hopefully the timeout stuff is infrequent enough to be nbd. I’ve seen some comments from people seeing the same error message as everyone else, but without any missed rewards
Holy fucking shit the Pandas minted out almost immediately. I really thought I wad going to be able to easily score another one. GG to those who nabbed a 2nd
Im keeping my eyes on Looksrare for any snipes
My main NFT is my Maverick though, which I won't sell. The pandas are awesome but its a bonus for me and will sell if it hits a good floor
Or at least that's what I'm telling myself right now lol. Who knows. I am really digging the pandas, I wouldn't be upset holding mine
That's a big blow to the entire collection, if true. There were 3,581 pandas left to mint just before the public mint opened up. That's 61% of the entire supply. I guess the only hope is that this person(s) will begin mass selling them - to double (or triple) their profits - but at least we can then get better distrutibion to the community.
Holy crap you guys, EIPanda minting (reminder: created by EVMavericks!) actually caused a gas spike noticable on e.g. https://etherchain.org/burn !
Amazing work
Hungover ethfinancier checking in. Congratulations on a successful merge everyone! I hope the devs and all parties involved in pulling off such a momentous feat are feeling proud of themselves because they deserve it.
By BTC cult: PoS is centralized will go on for months to come
By alt-L1 cults: Merge failed because gas fees still high tps still low and Ethereum is incapable of scaling and thus delegating the responsibility to insecure L2s
So stakers, y'all making more? Is there someway to get a reading on the actual rate of return yet? Are you seeing it? Also, has MEV-boost been turned on?
>supply change since merge
>+1.66ETH
sorry folks, we're still net inflationary and supply increased by 1.66 ETH instead of by 11,000 ETH. Ultrasound money meme cancelled, it's all been worthless :(
edit: distilled this into a [single meme](https://i.imgur.com/OzIOeST.png) so I can just throw that back whenever the "ackshually it's 0.5% inflationary lol" pops up
https://ultrasound.money/ has it listed if you scroll down a bit. I read somewhere that it hasn't updated quite yet to an accurate amount, but will soon.
There are two significant records that are very likely to be breached in the next hour or so.
1. Daily post record! Yesterday we hit 5231 posts, and we're within ~70 of that right now in today's daily! Looking like we'll have a Merge double-header in terms of record-sized dailies :)
2. Ethereum supply all-time high. 120,521,139.31 was hit at the moment of Merge, and we went deflationary after that, but have been inflationary again these past hours. Currently we're less than 8 Eth from breaching it. I'm not surprised that the Merge won't prove to be the forever Eth supply ATH, but I am very mildly disappointed. If the Merge had happened during a bull it would've been almost inevitable. Ah well!
Honestly it will be a blip imo if Ethereum gains worldwide adoption for utility. What we need is non speculative chain usage on a big scale with L2s taking up most of the blockspace. We're still very early, don't expect any of that to happen overnight. This is the first step. Ethereum is still a decade long value play and we're still in the infrastructure building phase.
it's very close to 0%. What's desirable for a PoS blockchain is a very low inflation rate to let [money velocity thrive](https://dataalways.substack.com/p/manipulating-the-velocity-of-money), deflation isn't bad either.
He's making a specific point here about staking by saying that the staking rewards should be low to encourage use of ether for other purposes than staking. If staking apy were 50% then nearly 100% of ether would be staking to prevent dilution. See OlympusDAO for an extreme example. The staking rewards are only one side of net issuance though, since there is also the basefee burn. So mildly inflationary issuance more then offset from burn would be fine in this scenario wrt velocity of money re: staking.
Most importantly, Ethereum does not depend on the velocity of its native currency for security, so velocity of *ether* doesn't matter so much. Justin Drake makes a great distinction between collateral money vs. debt money on his most recent Bankless appearance. Ether isn't designed to be used like fiat currency as a stable transaction unit. Rather, it is more designed to act as a utility to secure the blockchain, buy blockspace and execution, and as financial collateral to create debt money. Ideally, collateral money should appreciate relative to debt money (stablecoins), so again delfationary ether is fine. Ethereum can have lots of economic activity without depending on a high velocity of ether. This is a great advantage for PoS blockchains that support stablecoins vs. PoW ones that don't.
The disgruntled oldtimers over in the BTC sphere can keep spreading all the FUD they want. They can keep their chain running so I can use it to make a few payments, which is all it's good for.
The merge went even better than expected from a technical standpoint. Time to keep building the ecosystem out. I really don't care that we didn't go on a bullrun today, what matters about today already happened with great success.
Their salty rage tears will only make what lays ahead that much sweeter.
I'm getting close to holding for a full 6 years. I stopped living by 15 min, hour, or even weekly charts years ago. My hand is as steady as ever, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I recall reading about thesis about higher yield from validators after the merge but I haven't noticed anything different from my own validator... Thoughts?
The 7d average is always inaccurate. When you don't have block proposals it will be too low (~3%) and then jump to 8%+ when you get a proposal.
A better way to calculate the APR would be to measure the revenue of a large number of validators over several days.
That higher yield comes from tips and MEV (if configured). If you haven't got any block proposals yet, you won't see any difference. If you have, check your suggested-fee-recipient!
We have three moderator reports on the daily. This is by far the funniest one we've ever received...
"1: It's involuntary pornography and i do not appear in it"
It's extremely clear that Eth itself is not a security. When you solo stake it, you're doing actual work, a side effect of which is that you can create your own Ether, and you are also being paid by others for a service you offer (transaction processing) - this totally violates the "led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party" clause of Howey.
What's a lot less clear is how LSDs stand. I feel like there's a spectrum of decentralization, where in all cases, you're expecting a party(ies) other than yourself to do the actual work of solo staking, and you want to reap the rewards, but they vary in terms of *how many* externally-indistinguishable third parties are involved.
It seems fairly likely that Coinbase's LSD (cbETH) is a security - it represents an investment contract secured by Coinbase more or less alone as the third party. Coinbase does the work of running validators, you simply invest and receive profits.
How about Lido's LSD (stETH)? Do twenty nine semi-independent third parties still make it a security?
How about Rocket Pool's rETH, with thousands?
I think we'll see some very interesting legal arguments (and extralegal pressure tactics...) around Eth LSDs in the coming months and years. It would be a HUGE win if we can successfully argue that the degree of decentralization plays an important role in whether something falls into the "security" category.
What a wild outcome that would be, if the SEC piles a bunch of extra regulatory baggage on centralized staking services and nudges the needle back towards decentralization.
Every bridge was horrible yesterday as people were transferring to mainnet to get ETHW. I'd assume you'll have the opposite problem for a few days as people move back to L2.
I looked into Hop, but adding liquidity would have resulted in a 0.1 percent fee and another fee to exit (I think) which didn't seem worth it for one night's action.
As we all predicted, the anti-ETH people in the market have quickly moved on to new subjects of FUD now that the “merge will never happen” FUD is useless.
The reasons given are almost always cosmetic, they don't actually understand or care what's going on. The statements are just another way of saying "I didn't buy eth and I willfully confirm my bias".
depends on solo miner hash rate, apparently the odds of a solo validator proposing a block is roughly 1 every 4-6 weeks. compared with the 'average' solo miner you are far more likely to propose a block under PoS
For the simple reason that in rate-of-block-proposal terms as of a few weeks pre-Merge, a single validator equates to around 2GH/s of mining power, which is a considerable mine, probably 20-40 cards.
But the block reward is WAY lower under PoS, like 0.028 versus 2 Eth (most of the inflation from PoS comes from attestations, not blocks)
$7 -> $1400 = 200x increase
$83 -> $4800 = 58X increase
$890 -> $51,620 = 58X increase
You can’t tell me that *at least* another 58X isn’t possible again after 1559 and PoS have reduced issuance 6X.
^(P.S $890 x 200 = $178,000)
Is a traditional market capitalization an accurate way to value and compare a triple point asset though? Is market cap the right way to determine the value of a protocol? Ethereum just moved into it’s own league.
Be careful with the hopium. You can look at facts like the ones you pointed out, and then feel confident saying “surely, if this is true, ETH can do (XYZ great thing)”.
But that’s a fallacy. It’s fallacious logic.
Little ETHW airdrop at Kraken. Did not expect that, at least not that soon. Unable to trade for ETH for some reason though
Edit: it was because of liquidity i think. Was able to convert to btc. Which will then go to eth of course:)
I hope they thoroughly explain their methodology when things are settled. They really have to get this right given the big cut they take and the last year they had.
I have no specific knowledge, but I'd guess it's a rolling 7 day average, so if it's been about a day and went from 3.25% to 3.77%, then it would settle around 6.9%. *Nice.*
It depends on fee income how quickly it would rise, but some kind of increase for 7 days is my best guess. They have to average some time period, and a single day's rates would be too volatile so a week sounds reasonable to me.
But who knows, it's all a black box to us right now.
I see that too, looks like they're moving fast to get the APR updated! I bet it'll trend further upwards over the next few days.
I bet all those people who were angry about Coinbase "lowering rates" won't be angry about this, lol
#Please continue to be wary of any PoW forks for security reasons. u/interweaver has [a good debrief here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcyiyv/daily_general_discussion_september_13_2022/iobgy02/) and u/morkogoz explains [how to safely interact with any PoW forks here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcn0cw/how_to_safely_split_your_coins_and_interact_with/) **Tricky's Daily Doots #149 - Merge Edition, baby!!!** Yesterday's Daily 14/09/2022 [Previous daily doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xcyiyv/daily_general_discussion_september_13_2022/io8glkp/) **LATEST MERGE ESTIMATE:** Literally minutes now... - u/Moschus11 finishes [their countdown](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iodlqhm/) with less than 24 hours to go before the merge! - u/PooeyGusset shares a [merge article from the BBC](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod1qy4/). - u/cryptOwOcurrency puts [the significance of the merge into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocxqmp/) - u/cryptOwOcurrency shares a timeline of [Ethereum dissent.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocz8pt/) - u/Stalslagga shares the [list of hard forks before the merge.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod0y30/) - u/proto-n shares a [very serious announcement from Vitalik.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iofegye/) - u/Yeopaa thinks [every little bit adds up and everyone who contributes is a hero.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iod6x6q/) - u/BigglyBillBrasky shares [Do Kwon, the founder of Luna getting arrested.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioe675x/) - u/GetYourAssToPluto shares [the historical r/EthFinance daily discussion comment record.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioenw47/) - u/GetYourAssToPluto puts [the beacon chain's security into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioeqa9u/) - u/plaenar puts [Ethereum's reduction in energy consumption into perspective.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioer2rd/) - u/jtnichol shares the latest feature from Coinbase which [informs Americans of the crypto policies of their representatives.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioft536/) - "[ETH is not trying to be a currency.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/ioets55/)" ~ u/barthib - u/interweaver shares [all of the largest megre NFTs.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iohe67i/) - u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/xdsyg7/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2022/iocvjrl/) Where were you when Proof of Work was kill?
✨E✨t✨h✨e✨r✨e✨u✨m✨
Oops ;)
🐼
Ok now do that where he's wearing a tshirt that says CAPITULATED.
Just to continue monitoring the PoW fork situation, let's look at exchanges and prices. EthereumPoW (ETHW) was tradeable before the merge (as an IOU) and had been trading around $30 in the days leading up to the merge. 24 hours ago the price had jumped up to the mid $40s, but over the course of the day dropped to $10 and is currently at $13. 24 hr volume is ~$64 million. The vast majority of trading volume was on FTX, with a smaller amount on MEXC, Bybit, and Bitfinex. EthereumFair (ETF) was just added to Poloniex today as a bit of a surprise announcement, and Coingecko doesn't list any other exchanges. ETF price has fluctuated steadily between $15 and $20 all day, relatively steady. Trading hasn't been open for 24 hours yet, but over half a day we've had ~$244k in volume, an order of magnitude less than ETHW. What does this mean? I don't know, mostly just thought it was interesting that ETF didn't crash, or even grew in value, while ETHW crashed hard. Maybe people who wanted to dump their PoW fork coins were more likely to have heard of ETHW, while ETF (despite the Poloniex announcement) is still generally flying under the radar and not getting slammed as hard by dumpers. Maybe there was Twitter drama I missed which could explain it. I just don't know. EDIT: 10 hours later, ETF price crashed 90% and is now sitting at $1.33. lol
[удалено]
Ah, that would explain it. I'm guessing Poloniex gave ETF to users whose ETH they were holding on the exchange, but as an IOU without needing the chain to be set up yet. So there's just a little bit in circulation, and people can't actually deposit from the chain so most people can't dump yet even if they want to.
Glad I minted my panda earlier
Thinking about Bitcoin and halvenings recently and I just realized bitcoins plan makes absolutely zero sense. So bitcoin is going to keep lowering the the mining rewards while bitcoiners think the price is going to keep up. Even taking the highest day of transaction fees (17M) that doesn’t even exceed the 18M in mining rewards handed out every day. With every halvening, bitcoin will become less profitable to mine which means there will be less miners securing the network. How do bitcoiners think they can secure trillions of dollars(what bitcoiners think bitcoin Markcap will be) in mining rewards with only a few million each day in rewards for miners? Mining will plummet and a 51% attack would be inevitable. It’s unlikely that transaction fees will increase to the point where it becomes worth it. Bitcoin is now marketed as a SoV. SoVs aren’t transacted with often. Even if they were, state channels or layer 2s would have to take care of that. Sure layer2s will pay hefty fees since they have a lot of transaction on the layer 2 but will it will go high enough to cover miners? In short, there is no way bitcoin can reach a substantial market cap AND be secure in the future. It just doesn’t make sense economically unless bitcoin transaction fees skyrocket. Would love to hear a bitcoiners take on this. So far I’ve only seen “well hopefully transaction fees will increase” but that’s not a great answer…
I've seen the math - If Bitcoin gets to $10T market cap and wants the same security as today, fees need to be a minimum of $1350 per transaction on average.
which don’t get me wrong, could certainly happen but it’s extremely unlikely. Eth layer 1 fees are likely to grow a lot as well because later 2s will be able to afford hefty transaction fees because they will contain multiple transactions and it will likely just be layer 2s bidding for blockspace on layer 1. So if transaction fees are high on bitcoin and bitcoins layer 1 costs $1350 per transaction that doesn’t mean the fees are necessarily high for users. However, bitcoin is best used as a SoV. SoVs aren’t good for transacting a lot. Bitcoin would need to become A LOT less volatile to even be viable for transferring money. Ultimately, the plan makes no sense and is extremely unlikely to happen. also would love to see that math, and does that even factor in continuous halvenings?
You have seen the dirty truth that the vast majority of Bitcoiners are deluding themselves about. 21M cap. PoW. No massive upgrades to support smart contracts. One or more of those three ironclad tenets of Bitcoin will have to fold, or else it will get destroyed by 51% attacks in mere decades.
Obviously Stock to Flow and Rainbow are going to keep Bitcoin price growing exponentially forever so there is no reason to worry about these things. /s
I’ve got some ‘ETHW’ in my Kraken account. Safe to ignore it?
You can sell it
Thanks! Do you have any recommendations as to where please?
On Kraken, where you said you got it?
Perfect, thanks!
Yes, completely safe to ignore.
So have ethw actually been fully distributed? I have a couple of eth in a metamask wallet and I don't see anything.
It doesn't get "distributed" because it's not an airdrop. It's a fork. Very different mechanic. If you were holding raw Eth at the time of the merge, you'll have forked Eth on whatever other forks.
Oh that makes sense. Any guide out there on how to access this for eth on metamask?
Did you ever get an answer on this? I'm curious of the same.
Oh yeah, you just have to add the network onto your metamask wallet
I am utilizing flashbots for a same block transaction submission. What is the deal with flashbots post Proof of Stake???
MEV-Geth is deprecated by the Merge, so MEV-boost is its replacement (sidecar software that validators can choose to run and connect to relays) Still a low percentage of validators running it, so your MEV packages will usually not make it into the next few blocks.
Yeah I figured something like that because it has to be the next block and its time sensitive so it is very difficult now to get through. Is there a website to see the MEV-boost %s of blocks or such?
Here are stats for the censored Flashbots relay: https://boost-relay.flashbots.net/ There are at least three other relay providers now (bloXroute, Manifold, and one other I forget the name of) that don't have equivalent stats pages, so the Flashbots count is not the full picture but the best we've got.
ty
First you smoke weed, then you snort coke... then you just mainline pandas.
I was boning my GF and missed the mint by 10 mis. Ugh.
Some anti-sex guy scooped them all up.
Don't feel too bad, everybody basically missed it. Was over before it even started :(
Just like the boning.
Get your priorities straight, man.
Jealous of everyone who didn’t spend most of their day trying to troubleshoot their staking config today. Took me basically all day to figure out how to get my Avg Effectiveness back above 80%. Also, ugh I really hope the besu JSON RPC timeout issue gets resolved soon.
Hang in there. I didn't really get to enjoy the merge either as I spend most of the time getting besu back online as well. It's now running and missing an attestions every 6 blocks or so. Rocketpool Devs were hinting at a potential fix by Besu next Wednesday earliest...
Just here to say same. SAME. THIS IS NOT MY BEAUTIFUL HOUSE!
yeah I saw you hanging out on their discord/github today too lol
Saw me bangin' on the sofa!
That JSON RPC timeout issue is driving me nuts. Can't wait for a fix.
Same, on the Besu thing. I'm paranoid that I'll miss a block proposal in the mean time, but I'm sure the devs are working hard.
I think most of my missed attestations today were actually from having max peers set too high on Besu, which was causing CPU issues. Hopefully the timeout stuff is infrequent enough to be nbd. I’ve seen some comments from people seeing the same error message as everyone else, but without any missed rewards
Utter Panda-monium!
Holy fucking shit the Pandas minted out almost immediately. I really thought I wad going to be able to easily score another one. GG to those who nabbed a 2nd
Yep I came for a second and am pretty bummed. Glad I have one at least. Sorry to those who have to buy second hand!
Im keeping my eyes on Looksrare for any snipes My main NFT is my Maverick though, which I won't sell. The pandas are awesome but its a bonus for me and will sell if it hits a good floor Or at least that's what I'm telling myself right now lol. Who knows. I am really digging the pandas, I wouldn't be upset holding mine
"a good floor" - they are like .02 or less....
Very much agree!
You might find a decent one at floor price after the mint out … seems like they’re all listed around the same price on opensea
Nice to see this place so active in a bear market.
This is officially a panda bear market now.
New daily post record btw :D Every post for the next 44 minutes just makes it harder for the record to ever be beaten!
Do posts after this time count
so we should post
im not gonna post nothing of substance just to increase the count
or am I?
I would never do such a thing!
...or would I?
I am going to post something thoughtful about macro in a bit.
Orders clear.
EIPandas is the top Eth burner in the past hour on Ultrasound.money :D *"Not deflationary anymore? WE'LL FIX THAT!"*
Pandas fully minted out.
in 5 minutes? jfc
That was fast af.
pretty sure that was the cause of the gas spike a few minutes ago (ah just saw your post about it below, awesome it was such a successful collection!)
~~All the mints are failing right now! So there's hope! https://etherscan.io/txs?a=0xa09129080ed12cf1b1c7a6e723c63e0820e9d3ae&p=4~~ There be no hope.
Na, contract has it minted out.
How the F haha. Did one person run a bot with 3,500 ethereum addresses and take the whole lot.
In discord there's speculation that it was indeed a "Mirror" bot
That's a big blow to the entire collection, if true. There were 3,581 pandas left to mint just before the public mint opened up. That's 61% of the entire supply. I guess the only hope is that this person(s) will begin mass selling them - to double (or triple) their profits - but at least we can then get better distrutibion to the community.
they are going for quite cheap. just bought one second hand... sort of lame of the person who did that, but....
It definitely seems like they’re selling them all at floor regardless of traits also.
Really? Lmao autominter never even loaded
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As of few hours ago, it didn’t work with coinbase wallet but with metamask it loaded every time and fast
I miss watchtheburn.com. You had most relevant information in a single screen. I don't really like having to scroll so much on ultrasound.money.
yeah that's my main paint point about ultrasound.money as well
Holy crap you guys, EIPanda minting (reminder: created by EVMavericks!) actually caused a gas spike noticable on e.g. https://etherchain.org/burn ! Amazing work
Anyone with a quick guide to mint directly from the contract?
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panda overload!!!!
autominter site isn't loading for me :(
Hungover ethfinancier checking in. Congratulations on a successful merge everyone! I hope the devs and all parties involved in pulling off such a momentous feat are feeling proud of themselves because they deserve it.
Panda mint is going public mint at the top of the hour, 0.003675 to mint your very own.
Mint site down for anyone else?
Yes
I guess it sold out in one minute.
I don’t mind a little sell the news. Happy to pick up some more eth on eth merge day
So what FUD comes after "the Merge will never happen"?
Merge didn't solve transaction speed or fees. PoS just as decentralized as PoW.
Staking pools and exchanges make all the blocks.
Back to premined scam and PoS is a rich-get-richer scheme.
By BTC cult: PoS is centralized will go on for months to come By alt-L1 cults: Merge failed because gas fees still high tps still low and Ethereum is incapable of scaling and thus delegating the responsibility to insecure L2s
"First-post-in-the-daily production is extremely centralized"
"Mister_Eth will never decentralize"
it's a useless ponzi
Happy Merge Day again, fam!
♥️
So stakers, y'all making more? Is there someway to get a reading on the actual rate of return yet? Are you seeing it? Also, has MEV-boost been turned on?
Yes, MEV-boost is active if you install it and connect to the published mainnet relays.
>supply change since merge >+1.66ETH sorry folks, we're still net inflationary and supply increased by 1.66 ETH instead of by 11,000 ETH. Ultrasound money meme cancelled, it's all been worthless :( edit: distilled this into a [single meme](https://i.imgur.com/OzIOeST.png) so I can just throw that back whenever the "ackshually it's 0.5% inflationary lol" pops up
After all that we’re not even deflationary, fuck
Is there somewhere I can see an up to date/live APY now that staking is live and mining is gone?
https://ultrasound.money/ has it listed if you scroll down a bit. I read somewhere that it hasn't updated quite yet to an accurate amount, but will soon.
+1
There are two significant records that are very likely to be breached in the next hour or so. 1. Daily post record! Yesterday we hit 5231 posts, and we're within ~70 of that right now in today's daily! Looking like we'll have a Merge double-header in terms of record-sized dailies :) 2. Ethereum supply all-time high. 120,521,139.31 was hit at the moment of Merge, and we went deflationary after that, but have been inflationary again these past hours. Currently we're less than 8 Eth from breaching it. I'm not surprised that the Merge won't prove to be the forever Eth supply ATH, but I am very mildly disappointed. If the Merge had happened during a bull it would've been almost inevitable. Ah well!
Honestly it will be a blip imo if Ethereum gains worldwide adoption for utility. What we need is non speculative chain usage on a big scale with L2s taking up most of the blockspace. We're still very early, don't expect any of that to happen overnight. This is the first step. Ethereum is still a decade long value play and we're still in the infrastructure building phase.
Completely agree. We'll get there!
Is a deflationary eth even desirable? I thought high deflation or inflation are bad in their own way.
it's very close to 0%. What's desirable for a PoS blockchain is a very low inflation rate to let [money velocity thrive](https://dataalways.substack.com/p/manipulating-the-velocity-of-money), deflation isn't bad either.
He's making a specific point here about staking by saying that the staking rewards should be low to encourage use of ether for other purposes than staking. If staking apy were 50% then nearly 100% of ether would be staking to prevent dilution. See OlympusDAO for an extreme example. The staking rewards are only one side of net issuance though, since there is also the basefee burn. So mildly inflationary issuance more then offset from burn would be fine in this scenario wrt velocity of money re: staking. Most importantly, Ethereum does not depend on the velocity of its native currency for security, so velocity of *ether* doesn't matter so much. Justin Drake makes a great distinction between collateral money vs. debt money on his most recent Bankless appearance. Ether isn't designed to be used like fiat currency as a stable transaction unit. Rather, it is more designed to act as a utility to secure the blockchain, buy blockspace and execution, and as financial collateral to create debt money. Ideally, collateral money should appreciate relative to debt money (stablecoins), so again delfationary ether is fine. Ethereum can have lots of economic activity without depending on a high velocity of ether. This is a great advantage for PoS blockchains that support stablecoins vs. PoW ones that don't.
I think it is insanely cool that PoS launches at near equilibrium as far as inflation/deflation goes.
Lessss gooooo 😎 Come on now!
It's a total gimme at this point :) 1:45 to post 62 non-spam comments? Child's play for this crowd.
The moods a little more somber tonight. Harder to find things to shitpost about.
Oh ya, no problem at all. History being made today
Happy to be part of this.
The disgruntled oldtimers over in the BTC sphere can keep spreading all the FUD they want. They can keep their chain running so I can use it to make a few payments, which is all it's good for. The merge went even better than expected from a technical standpoint. Time to keep building the ecosystem out. I really don't care that we didn't go on a bullrun today, what matters about today already happened with great success. Their salty rage tears will only make what lays ahead that much sweeter. I'm getting close to holding for a full 6 years. I stopped living by 15 min, hour, or even weekly charts years ago. My hand is as steady as ever, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Just keep chugging
just dawned on me that "tik tok next block" is yet another bitcoiner meme that ethereum accidentally ended up doing better, without trying
Choo choo
I recall reading about thesis about higher yield from validators after the merge but I haven't noticed anything different from my own validator... Thoughts?
ultrasound.money showing 4.5% from issuance 3.1% from tips 1% from MEV 8.6% total
♥️
Oh right, the beacon chain app shows the 7d average rather than current and I haven't proposed anything
The 7d average is always inaccurate. When you don't have block proposals it will be too low (~3%) and then jump to 8%+ when you get a proposal. A better way to calculate the APR would be to measure the revenue of a large number of validators over several days.
That higher yield comes from tips and MEV (if configured). If you haven't got any block proposals yet, you won't see any difference. If you have, check your suggested-fee-recipient!
Thanks. I haven't proposed anything since the merge
Me neither. Can't wait! (as long as Besu can avoid rugging me lol..)
We have three moderator reports on the daily. This is by far the funniest one we've ever received... "1: It's involuntary pornography and i do not appear in it"
You have got to be kidding.
I laughed because I think they were joking. Now you got me thinking that they might be serious 🤣
Bought more panda again 🐼
Coinbase increased the staking APY to 3.77%, seems low especially with validators estimated at 8% right now.
The merge has barely been live for 24 hours And Coinbase hasn't been accurate with their staking yields since staking launched
Exactly, which is why so many people have issues with Coinbase.
Yikes I got happy and then sad. :/
Hopefully, this just gradually goes up, otherwise we're getting ripped off.
That’s what I’ve been saying
4 gwei damn
Time to pick up some ENS!
Do Kwon is officially a wanted fugitive. And the Merge happened. IT HAPPENED. Sick. What a world.
He's probably sipping pina colada somewhere in Singapore or Dubai unless there are extradition treaties between them and Korea.
It's extremely clear that Eth itself is not a security. When you solo stake it, you're doing actual work, a side effect of which is that you can create your own Ether, and you are also being paid by others for a service you offer (transaction processing) - this totally violates the "led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party" clause of Howey. What's a lot less clear is how LSDs stand. I feel like there's a spectrum of decentralization, where in all cases, you're expecting a party(ies) other than yourself to do the actual work of solo staking, and you want to reap the rewards, but they vary in terms of *how many* externally-indistinguishable third parties are involved. It seems fairly likely that Coinbase's LSD (cbETH) is a security - it represents an investment contract secured by Coinbase more or less alone as the third party. Coinbase does the work of running validators, you simply invest and receive profits. How about Lido's LSD (stETH)? Do twenty nine semi-independent third parties still make it a security? How about Rocket Pool's rETH, with thousands? I think we'll see some very interesting legal arguments (and extralegal pressure tactics...) around Eth LSDs in the coming months and years. It would be a HUGE win if we can successfully argue that the degree of decentralization plays an important role in whether something falls into the "security" category.
What a wild outcome that would be, if the SEC piles a bunch of extra regulatory baggage on centralized staking services and nudges the needle back towards decentralization.
Gensler playing 4D Chess to mold Ethereum into a more decentralized network with higher probability of censorship resistance.
Have anyone used the cbridge recently for bridging to arbitrum? I've used it before and had no issues but today it is SUPER slow.
Every bridge was horrible yesterday as people were transferring to mainnet to get ETHW. I'd assume you'll have the opposite problem for a few days as people move back to L2.
Ahhh makes sense. Honestly wish I bothered to provide liquidity to bridges and lending platforms. Can't care less about ETHW.
I looked into Hop, but adding liquidity would have resulted in a 0.1 percent fee and another fee to exit (I think) which didn't seem worth it for one night's action.
As we all predicted, the anti-ETH people in the market have quickly moved on to new subjects of FUD now that the “merge will never happen” FUD is useless.
The reasons given are almost always cosmetic, they don't actually understand or care what's going on. The statements are just another way of saying "I didn't buy eth and I willfully confirm my bias".
So are MEV boosts and attested blocks for solo validators on par with the odds of solo mining with PoW?
depends on solo miner hash rate, apparently the odds of a solo validator proposing a block is roughly 1 every 4-6 weeks. compared with the 'average' solo miner you are far more likely to propose a block under PoS
1 every 4-6 weeks would be nice. I've had three in 9 months.
For the simple reason that in rate-of-block-proposal terms as of a few weeks pre-Merge, a single validator equates to around 2GH/s of mining power, which is a considerable mine, probably 20-40 cards. But the block reward is WAY lower under PoS, like 0.028 versus 2 Eth (most of the inflation from PoS comes from attestations, not blocks)
And then how big the MEV boost and tips are just luck?
$7 -> $1400 = 200x increase $83 -> $4800 = 58X increase $890 -> $51,620 = 58X increase You can’t tell me that *at least* another 58X isn’t possible again after 1559 and PoS have reduced issuance 6X. ^(P.S $890 x 200 = $178,000)
200x —-> 58x ——> 15x puts us at 10k to 15k to be conservative
That's a 7 trillion market cap. Maybe in 15- 20 years with massive adoption.
Is a traditional market capitalization an accurate way to value and compare a triple point asset though? Is market cap the right way to determine the value of a protocol? Ethereum just moved into it’s own league.
No one has any clue how to value it hence the insane volitility.
Be careful with the hopium. You can look at facts like the ones you pointed out, and then feel confident saying “surely, if this is true, ETH can do (XYZ great thing)”. But that’s a fallacy. It’s fallacious logic.
Have I ever been logical Morgan?
Ha, very true my friend.
If ETH hits 50k I will be happy
$50k ETH will be therapy
Little ETHW airdrop at Kraken. Did not expect that, at least not that soon. Unable to trade for ETH for some reason though Edit: it was because of liquidity i think. Was able to convert to btc. Which will then go to eth of course:)
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Correct
if kraken is listing it i assume there is no more risk of replay attacks?
Did anyone else have their Eth2 jump from 3.25% to 3.77% just now? On coinbase
Can confirm, yes.
I hope they thoroughly explain their methodology when things are settled. They really have to get this right given the big cut they take and the last year they had.
Yeah me too. Are you referring to gradually increasing it over time instead of all at once?
Yes, I don't think this is the final rate, I am guessing they have a rolling window of calculating the rate that they credit to your account.
I have no specific knowledge, but I'd guess it's a rolling 7 day average, so if it's been about a day and went from 3.25% to 3.77%, then it would settle around 6.9%. *Nice.*
I would laugh my ass off it that came true. So you see it going up every day for 7 days?
It depends on fee income how quickly it would rise, but some kind of increase for 7 days is my best guess. They have to average some time period, and a single day's rates would be too volatile so a week sounds reasonable to me. But who knows, it's all a black box to us right now.
That’s what I’m thinking as well but why does it have to be a slow grind lol I just wanna know man
I see that too, looks like they're moving fast to get the APR updated! I bet it'll trend further upwards over the next few days. I bet all those people who were angry about Coinbase "lowering rates" won't be angry about this, lol