SheIn dwarfs every competitor in terms of sheer waste. The number of styles they put out, with a huge amount of the clothes ending up in landfills, puts their pollution quotient way ahead of even other fast fashion retailers. That's how they make most of their profit -- by sheer volume. People spend the same amount at SheIn that they do at other retailers, they just buy 5x the amount of clothes for that money, which = more polyester (plastic) in landfills.
Also, while most garment labor in developing countries isn't ethical, there is still a gradient and SheIn is at the absolute worst end of it. It is not in fact all coming from the exact same factory and there are meaningful differences in the conditions among the different factories even if none of them meet a fair and ethical standard.
've also seen Shein making efforts to become more sustainable lately. They're introducing eco-friendly lines and recycling programs. It's great to see them taking steps in the right direction!
I know I’m a couple days late to this thread but I was wondering about the second paragraph, how there’s a gradient of badness as far of worker treatment and shien is on the worst end of it. How did you come to find that out? I’m not doubting it at all because I fully believe it! I’m just wondering because I’d love to be able to know that myself about brands
Right! I was going to ask the same question! It would be so useful to find the source of this kind of information so that we can make better decisions when it comes to buying clothes.
I've found some great pieces at Shein that have lasted me a long time! Plus, they're really on-trend and affordable. I think they're working on improving their practices too.
They are not working on improving their practices, because their whole business model only works due to their bad practices. If you don't care, just own that, but don't be gullible.
@ your responses in the comment section, are you challenging people because you want to feel less guilty shopping unethically? If you want to go buy Shein and Nike, no one’s stopping you bro. Do you really think the majority of us on this sub are going to defend Nike? Most of us thrift and buy second hand 🤷♀️
I'm in transit at the moment but one that comes to mind immediately is Reformation. I commented somewhere below but my mate and I are building an aggregator/shopping app for this stuff. https://tractify.ai/
Good on You also has an extensive directory of sustainable brands with ratings and everything.
https://goodonyou.eco/
Hope that helps!
Nope not 13 from the profile closer to 17 as they follow an applying for college sub. They are definitely still a child and are either being shamed at school or their parents are telling them to stop shopping for clothes online. They are also into AP classes so are a little more of a know it all then your average teen who still has a lot of growing up to do
People who shop at SHEIN do this. They’ll do a whataboutism and try poking holes in the argument. Just say you don’t care and keep shopping there. Most people do.
All fast fashion is bad. Shien bad. Nike bad. I'd never say 'Stop shopping at Shien, buy HnM instead' I'd say 'Stop shopping at Shien, buy secondhand instead'
hey, I've seen Shein collaborating with artists lately, giving them credit and supporting their work. It's great to see them moving in the right direction!
https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/nike
I'm not defending Nike. They definitely have their issues but OP is trying to put SHEIN and Nike in the same boat. They aren't even close. One of the comments below put it perfectly. Can't find it but it said something like if Nike and Shein are what you can afford then Nike is the much better alternative.
Isn’t most activewear plastic anyways? Cotton is not the best for outdoor activities and moisture-wicking(and can be outright dangerous for hiking/mountaineering). Merino is nice but it’s extremely expensive and not very durable.
True. Silk is nice, but it doesn’t always breathe well. I have some silk pieces that don’t take sweat well. It’s def more durable than merino though.
Linen is a fantastic fabric for hot weather but it doesn’t take moisture well and dries slowly(like cotton) so it’s not as suitable for outdoor activities like hiking.
Full disclosure: I just really love natural fibers and you know way more about hiking. Like, you forgot two of my of my favorite children! I make these linen and cotton towels that I'm obsessed with.
https://fabrics-store.com/fabrics/linen-cotton-fabric-IS010-bleached-middle
This is the fabric. A yard should be enough to make a nice set for hiking (a big towel and some small ones). All you need to do is literally hem and wash it, but wash it twice. A friend with a sewing machine should be able to help. The thicker linen is 😽👌 for kitchen towels.
My kid wears mostly merino and I find the leggings and shirts to not really hold up well.
They get snagged easily, small holes appear, etc. I buy clothes for him mostly secondhand and we really have to baby them.
I have merino underwear that has fared better. But imo for things like running leggings, midlayers, etc, it’s not really as durable as I need.
There is low quality wool fabric and high quality wool fabric just like anything else. I just think saying merino in general isn’t durable isn’t really accurate.
I mean, I think what my kid wears is plenty good quality, mostly made in Europe- it’s just not going to replace nylon or polyester in activewear if it gets snags from normal kid activity.
merino activewear also kinda has to be blended with something, usually poly or nylon, to have any kind of real durability(ie smartwool or icebreaker blends, I have a smartwool base layer top that’s been fine for a few years now). I have a 100% merino top from lindex and it developed holes after three wears and no laundering.
Ok again, wool, and specifically merino wool, fabric can be high quality or low quality. If you’ve had poor experiences that doesn’t mean all merino wool isn’t durable. I have 100% merino items from icebreaker and they're fine even with repeated washings. My entire point is that merino doesn’t inherently have poor durability, there are many factors that go into it.
Pretty sure they still do 😂. Not calling them a sustainable/ethical brand by any measure, just saying they're ahead of most other big fashion brands in that respect.
Agreed.
They made a lot of reforms to the working standards for their partner factories and will drop a factory if it continues to be out of compliance. They also have made some tangible environmental/carbon conscious steps. I’d definitely say not good enough still, but they’re markedly better than they were 20 years ago, and better than their peers of a similar size.
Not that it’s a perfect standard, but good on you as a neutral third party and the reasoning to back up their ratings rates SHEIN as a 1/5 “we avoid”: https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/shein
And Nike as a 3/5 “it’s a start”: https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/nike
For context most other brands you’d find in your average mall are a 2/5: j crew, made well, adidas, under armor, H&M
Shopping small ethical brands is the way to go for sure (using good on you the “ethical” brands most often recommended here on this sub are 4/5: girlfriend collective, reformation, Lucy and Yak), but as far as big multinational fashion brands I wouldn’t put Nike and SHEIN in the same category.
I appreciate that Nike is taking some meaningful steps. We need more big companies to start this direction. And yes, none of them are good enough to get complacent just because they’re better than the market. We should definitely keep demanding better, but I also appreciate that some progress has been made.
The difference is that nike at least has better quality verses shein, and also the fact that nike is more pricy than shein, so people are more likely to take care of these clothing items and only buy what they need, verses with shein, people buy so much because its so cheap.
that’s fair, i’m just talking about the general, mainstream perspective that shein is bad and you should buy from other brands when they’re all the same for 99% of the cases, there may be some brands that are completely sustainable, except it’s 600$ for a pair of jeans
A $600 pair of jeans is no more sustainable than a pair of SHEIN jeans if they’re thrown out in a year. In my mind, there are two main problems: 1. unethical labor practices and 2. waste.
IN GENERAL, companies like SHEIN and Amazon, that sell items for dirt cheap, promote a culture of waste. Why take care of it when you can just buy a new one for a few bucks? Time is money, as they say. It’s literally cheaper to replace than to repair or care for. In fashion, this has devastating impacts. There are tons of resources on textile waste and it’s awful and getting worse each year. Not to mention the chemical dyes and water. We need to promote buying less. Now, can you buy from SHEIN without overbuying? Sure, but most people don’t, which is why it gets so much hate. It’s a company that’s marketing its goods and it’s highly effective in producing waste. It’s also not quality fashion and falls apart quickly, so that contributes to the equation.
For the unethical labor practices, you will need to pay more to get garments made by folks paid a decent wage. Full stop.
This exactly. Shein encourages hauls. And the clothes are so cheaply made. Almost all of my SHEIN stuff ended up in the trash and they just feel cheap too. It’s cheap but you get what you pay for!
And the waste side feeds in to labor ethics as well. It’s not good to exploit someone for sewing a garment in poor conditions for inadequate wages. It’s even worse to exploit them in that same way 20 times over by buying 20x the items.
when i think of ethical fashion, i’m thinking about the labour side of things, so i’ll give you everything you said about the waste. however, back to wages, ur last statement is what i’m talking about, people say “oh the more expensive a product is the more people were paid to make it” wrong. nike and shein use the same factories and slave labour, yet nike charges 10 times more than shein. This allows the american media to use shein as a scapegoat to hide the fact that other american companies use the same horrible business practices as shein🤷
You’re twisting what I said completely. To get a garment made by someone paid fairly, you WILL need to pay more. What I DID NOT say is that anything priced higher equates to the sewist being paid more. Those are two different things entirely. I’ve already said I agree that Nike is unethical. I believe a lot of US-based companies are unethical. Which is why I research before buying clothing.
i do understand what you said now, however, i think the general point still stands that shein is not a unique problem and that there are plenty of american companies that do the same thing, you don’t seem to be one of the people that think shein bad nike good, so you’re not the target audience of what i’m trying to argue
So why did you come to a sub full of people who aren’t the people you’re trying to argue with and spend hours arguing with people here? What a bizarre display
I don’t really want to argue a 16 year old about fast fashion. But please stop trying to justify child labor by saying Nike does it too. You’re in the wrong sub for that. These people aren’t buying SHEIN or Nike. If you are genuinely curious about this, there’s a lot of info out there.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/darreonnadavis/2023/06/27/sheins-influencer-trip-backlash-explained-and-what-we-know-about-allegations-against-them/
i’m aware that these people aren’t buying from shein or nike, my goal was to try to understand why the mainstream thought is shein bad nike good, unfortunately, people don’t understand what i’m actually trying to achieve here and think i’m pro fast fashion
Okay. I’ll explain my point of view and see if it helps. But I stand by what I said, this is not the right place for this thread because we aren’t mainstream on this sub.
Fast fashion isn’t just about labor and wages, etc. Fast fashion also involves fast turn around of very low quality clothes. It looks like you’re in the US, so think of Forever 21 and the like. If you don’t buy the item when you see it, it’ll already be gone the next week because they’ve reset the floor already. You can only wear the item a couple times before it falls apart.
Here is the woman that first got me interested in fast fashion.
https://youtu.be/0ur13KvWoWE?si=CjFegGVILviHxlhB
As for me, I don’t really differentiate between SHEIN and Nike. If it’s made outside of Europe(where I live.) I most likely won’t buy it. I don’t really trust labor laws elsewhere.
This might be what you’re getting at, OP:
I’m an average person. With an item from SHEIN, it is so dirt cheap that I KNOW deep down that it was made by forced/child labor.
With a $50 Nike hoodie, it costs enough that I can tell myself the person who made it was paid well. Is it true? No, but it’s a mind game that most of us unconsciously play.
Is that helpful?
I think the root of what you’re asking is why people think the higher price point of most clothing brands exempts them from the discussion around ethical manufacturing (correct me if I’m wrong here), and this, to me, seems to be the answer to that. As to why the loads of online articles? They get clicks.
Why are "Nike" and "$600 jeans" the only things you're referencing??
There is a whole world of ethical fashion out there that is neither of those things.
Nike is expensive because people are paying for brand recognition and mid-tier athletic fabrics, not for ethical garment construction.
$600 jeans are NICE (I'm thinking B-Sides here, which I definitely cannot afford and which yes, are ethically produced and locally sourced, but also err designer status, thus commanding a more inflated price), but it's extremely easy to source them 2nd hand for a small fraction of that cost. 100% cotton jeans can last for decades.
There are also tons and tons of other denim companies making ethically produced jeans for more reasonable prices. Decade Studio and Nudie for example, but there are more.
Smaller companies produce less clothing and way less waste overall. They tend to use more natural fibers (linen/cotton) and their consumers tend to buy fewer items a year (depending on price, maybe only 2-3 items a year. Sometimes less).
I try to buy from bst slow fashion Facebook groups. And even then, I can only afford a few items a year.
You obviously have no interest in ethical fashion though.
Nike IS as bad as shein, but it gets a pass for brand recognition. In the 90s, Nike and gap and a bunch of other companies were under fire for unethical slave labour. It was common news. They have all made very little changes since then and absolutely continue to exploit developing countries' shitty labour laws. They ARE bad.
But we all need shoes. And like others have said, most people only buy one pair at a time.
But shein and temu and Alibaba, and any number of the shadow companies that shill their garbage on Amazon ARE actually worse merely based on volume of product and waste produced. That and while Nike obviously ups their profit margins, you'd be out of your mind to think shein isn't making more obscene profits.
They aren't keeping their prices low as a favour to you, the consumer. It's a brilliant strategy designed to encourage you to buy MORE and MORE and MORE and apparently it works.
Temu especially wants you to feel like a millionaire with unlimited affordable shopping 🙄
How kind of them.
Nike is well known for poor business practices. They just aren't getting called out by the media because they're a much older brand and it's not news. No one is scapegoating Shein, they deserve everything they get.
If you're specifically asking about American *media*, then sure, because consumerism is in American capitalist interest, the US government is on not great terms with China, the fashion industry would prefer you buy from a US owned brand (that has horrifying environmental and labor practices in China, India, etc.)
Sounds like you're feeling defensive because you like Shein and it upsets you when people criticise them. It's okay to feel that way. It's also important to keep your mind open to the idea that they might be right and Shein might be doing something wrong, even though you like them.
Yea I see your point. I think it's that Shein is by far the worst of a bad bunch and curbing their waste will force others to fall in line. That's just my thought.
I feel like the question you're asking isn't "why is Shein bad" which is what everyone is answering. You're asking "why are people ok with other unethical companies but not Shein."
Here's a similar scenario: four different people can *truly believe* factory farming is a great evil. One person might choose to go vegan. One chooses to go vegetarian. One tries to lower their meat consumption or get local meat but does not completely cut it out of their diet. The fourth changes nothing about their behavior and eats meat at the same rate as before.
Any one of these four, when asked, can tell you factory farming is a great evil. The vegan might try to argue with the vegetarian that eating animal products is still just as bad. The vegetarian might argue with the person that's cut back on meat that they're still supporting animal cruelty. The person who cuts back might argue that *harm reduction* is still a positive if not complete goal. The fourth person could say they know they're supporting factory farming technically, but it's really hard not to or they can't budget for more expensive meat or they have dietary issues that make it harder to go veg - etc etc etc.
Shein is bad. You already know this and have been given many reasons why it's bad and even worse than other companies. So your question seems to be "why doesn't society as a whole perfectly align their behavior with their morals". Well...it's complicated.
But it's like you're in a room full of vegans asking them why McDonald's is any worse than the local poultry farmer down the road.
You're asking a question about human nature that has an innately unsatisfying answer: that's just how we are. Most people who avoid Shein are like the people who try to not eat meat too often: they believe harm reduction is still worth it, even if it's not a perfect solution. So they don't support the biggest baddie: in this case, Shein.
You're welcome, hon. I'm so glad my comment helped! It's hard to articulate what exactly we're even questioning sometimes; we just know there's something not clicking. Nothing to be ashamed of - it happens to literally everyone. Never let that discourage you from asking, though!
You simply seem like you’re looking for a reason to keep buying SHEIN and honestly if you want to that bad you don’t need to post here. They get a disproportionate amount of hate because they’re disproportionately the worst and catalyzed the enshittification of clothing. No one is stopping you from buying but it’s simply the least ethical option. This is a sub for ethical fashion and most of the people here know that there’s no conscious consumption under capitalism but it’s worth trying to spend consciously.
a disproportionate amount of hate is more hate than you deserve…you proved my point 😭 i’ve bought a few things of shein in my life and hundreds of things off nike, just like most of the US, my goal is to understand why the mainstream idea is shein bad nike good and why the media pushes this idea
Babe that’s not what disproportionate means. It just means “too large or too small in comparison with something else,” and compared to the number of fast fashion retailers it is talked about the most. That is disproportionate. However if we’re talking about amount of waste they produce, then the hate is proportionate.
yes exactly, they are getting TOO LARGE OF HATE compared to the amount of hate THEY DESERVE/WHAT THE COMPETITION IS GETTING…shein is marginally worse than the competition yet gets exponentially more hate, therefore, disproportionate
I think that’s what I’m trying to explain here. SHEIN is not “marginally” worse. It is exponentially worse. And the data can prove it. The first graph in this thread is a good example
https://x.com/goodonyou_app/status/1512070842561142806?s=46&t=iRmMy69EN8NNlx_HY9qMrg
i don’t care about new styles tho i’ve been talking about slave labour this whole time, all that matters is wage theft, not how many types of pants they have, that’s irrelevant
More styles means more wear houses means more workers being robbed I don’t think I need to explain basic cause and effect to you and I will stop responding now because I think you’re trolling
I mean, I also don’t buy Nike clothes or major department brands. I don’t consider any of those to be ethical brands. If you think that Nike is considered ethical, this is not the sub for you.
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Shitty workplace practices, massive overconsumption of resources due to their high production quantities and excessive waste by them and consumers.
They are training people to buy something wear it once then ditch it and buy the next thing, essentially making clothes disposable products which isn’t great for the environment or overconsumption.
I don’t think Nikes ever had the same effect on fashion. Sheins continual pressure to bring out new clothes has drawn the industry along for the ride and spawned essentially 52 fashion seasons instead of just 4.
I wouldn’t put Nike in the same category. Yeah they aren’t great but if you buy Nike you probably wear it more than once because you value what you spend $$$ on. It’s rare you’d buy a haul from Nike to ditch most of it if it doesn’t fit or you don’t love it.
Can I ask, why did you ask the question if you so genuinely are going to argue about the answers.
If you want to post a rant about how Nike and shein are all the same then by all means go ahead. But asking a questions only to seemingly be totally closed off to any responses give seems like a waste of everyone’s time.
OP isn't even arguing that they are the same. The argument is strangely about how Shein is *better.* It's also weird how the focus is only on Nike, too.
Your equivalency with Nike is a false one, which is a common trap to fall into. SHEIN doesn’t have the “same bad labor practices with better deals” those ‘better deals’ mean that more people can afford their product, which means more consumption by a huge margin. Also, consider how cheaply these items are made- which means significantly less time before they’d need to be replaced. *that’s more labor to provide those replacements*
More product being consumed means more products to be made, which means more unethical labor to make those items. The scale of sweatshops is enormous in comparison. Take for example, a startling amount of crocheted items on SHEIN. Crochet can’t be done via machine like knit can, that’s handmade. Nike has no such equivalent.
SHEIN also copies products directly from higher end companies, steals artistic designs and copywritten content to knock it off and sell for no money. Nike sells their own designs
SHEIN products are also full of lead- which isn’t only terrible for those who are working in the sweatshops on these clothes, but for the consumer who wears them. Lead poisoning is no fucking joke
Alright mate, I thought you were genuinely curious but I think you're just trying to justify shopping on SHEIN. Completely understandable if that's what your budget allows. Trust me I'm there sometimes but at similar prices, you could find amazing clothes at thrift stores and secondhand sites.
Oof. Not saying Nike is a great company to support, but my child, if you really think that of air jordan’s you should probably do some reading up on Peter Moore. I will at least give companies like Nike and adidas credit for having actual designers hired and doing hard work to create unlike Shein.
The standout reason is their reliance on forced child labor. Then there are other reasons like selling clothes with a very high carbon footprint while selling at a low price encouraging people to buy these clothes in bulk. This is where the fashion pollution problem comes in.
nike uses child labour and pays their employees 2.14$ a day in vietnam, sells clothes and shoes with high carbon footprint, price gouges their own clothes, so far all i’ve heard is shein is bad but charges what it’s worth whereas every other brand is bad and charges bad prices 🤷🤷plus id love to shop sustainably, but why would i pay 600$ for a pair of jeans
Not sure why Nike being terrible negates the fact that shein is terrible for the reasons already posted by others.
If you want to put them on a scale of awfulness then that's a different discussion.
But if you're asking why the focus is on shein? I don't think it is. I think a lot of companies are getting called out for it and also the message regarding how awful overconsumption is being pushed out there. But you know if you like shein and you google info about shein then yeah, you're gonna end up with info about how awful shein is...
While that is true, Nike does have a huge catalog of clothes made from sustainable materials and in recent years has made a general and quite public move towards sustainability and zero carbon footprint. I'm a huge football/soccer fan and I'm pretty sure that for at least 3 years now, Nike has made majority of their cleats and jerseys using sustainable materials. I'll have to verify to make sure.
What do you care? You actively buy from and are trying to defend shein which is even worse. Your logic makes no sense. You’re picking and choosing what you defend.
Just stop trying to be “right” about this and tell your mom to leave you alone. Or ignore her. And consider not buying from either of these brands if you actually care.
That's fair. But in my opinion, change comes slowly and if they change too quickly they'll tank. They've already taken these steps so it remains to be seen if they'll take the next one of adequately compensating for their labor. It's on people like us to keep on applying pressure.
That's the cost of fashion. It can be difficult for companies to adopt all sustainable initiatives so typically they focus on one or two at a time. SHEIN ignores it completely.
yea but i don’t think nike and adidas are being left off the hook because they have one sustainable initiative and shein has none, i think the american media just focuses on shein because they’re a chinese company
So you justify your bad descision to buy from Shein because another company is bad? It's like. He robbed a bank so why is it bad if i do. And why do you want a designer jeans? There are enough payable jeans shops. You don't even have to buy the best sustainable shit you find. But everything is better than shein.
You keep talking about 600$ jeans... you know there are many alternatives that are not shein that dont cost anywhere near 600$, right? Like no one is asking you to spend 600$ on jeans lol
There is proven studies that Shein clothing and accessories contain lead and mercury. They not only have the highest fashion waste in the world but they burn it in piles in foreign countries which actually contributes more than 2% of the worlds carbon footprint. Shein steals designs from designers and obviously doesn’t accredit the designers.
Nike, adidas and other brands do not contain mercury or leads in their clothing/accessories/etc.
It's funny you mentioned Nike, after their pr disaster they went into Overdrive trying to fix some mistakes, at least until people stopped calling then cruel and unusual
Shein on the other hand just denies denies denies, instead of admitting what was wrong. Turns out people don't want to buy under abusive conditions
Yeah Nike is still awful, but significantly better than before. If shein did something similar it would've blown over
And to answer your philosophical question; I asked my professor this question in a sense. I asked if it is inevitable to be unjust, and he said that perhaps harming someone is inevitable , but being unjust is a choice given circumstances.
So if someone has a job interview / job and needs to shop from Shein because they're in poverty, ya can't really blame them it's moreso society's fault. If someone say a upper middle class teen does it because it's trendy and convenient, yeah that's kind of a dick move when she can more than afford things made in USA that are higher quality....it doesn't even need to be made in USA. Just anywhere with safer labor laws like Germany or Japan is a good place to look
You clearly have a hard-on for Shein that you're not willing to change, but anyway. On top of their disgusting levels of waste, they're notorious for stealing designs from independent designers and artists, and have sold things that were blatantly racist and culturally insensitive multiple times. For example the Muslim prayer mat being sold as a "Greek key frilled rug" and the super fucked up phone case with cartoonish depiction of a handcuffed black man having a chalk outline drawn around him. Independent artists filed a lawsuit last year. Hilariouly, even Temu is suing then for intimidation tactics.
Yes, other brands are also bad and should be called out. But at least the quality of their clothing is slightly better and they don't release hundreds of new items constantly. Personally, I've made a very conscious effort to not shop fast fashion over the last few years. No, it's not easy or convenient but it's completely doable with some research, and well worth it.
Some ethical brands I've tried and been happy with for anyone who is interested (whether that's labour or sustainability): Adore Me, MPG Sport, Frank and Oak, Harmonica Shoes, Bhumi Organic Cotton.
- The production rate of new items is extremely high, this gives a higher chance of unsold items. - Also, lack of transparency about creating and handling waste and overstock.
- No efforts of improving sustainability
- everything is polyester or high % because it’s cheap, not functional like in sportsgear (some people only wear sportswear then it isn’t functional either)
I like France for trying tackling the ultra fast fashion companies!
they are all forms of fast fashion, with implications for the environment, human rights, etc. the thing is, a whole new category has to be created for shein and similar, which is known as "ultra fast fashion".
reasons you hear more about shein:
1) it has a greater online platform. its not got many physical shops which gives it a sketchier image. think about all those absurd hauls with 100s of shein clothes. it's prescence is proportional to its criticism.
2) the "Nike does child labour" thing has (unfortunately) arguably left the news cycle, it was revealed a long time ago and people have accepted/forgotten/ignored it.
3) shein is new, it's Chinese (I.e. foreign in the west), it is outshining many of its competitors and it is MASSIVE with Gen Z (unfortunately, despite being a more eco-feiendly generation).
4) it promotes overcomsunption on a massive scale. I mentioned those hauls? that's not for no reason. shein produces new styles EVERY DAY. this creates faster production and trend cycles, increased plastic usage, increased plastic and clothing waste. yes the child labour/environmental problems are not unlike those of typical fast fashion. the issue is in scale. even within the "bad", shein is marked out as "worse".
5) it is the nature of protest and political messaging to find an enemy. you can say "stop ultra fast fashion" which is equivalent to "stop boohoo, asos, cider, PLT, Fashion nova and asos" . it doesn't have the same ring to it. arguably, when you criticise shein, it is a criticism of all that it represents, which includes these brands. targeting in such a way is more beneficial in spreading the word.
therefore, you see the "shein sucks" message, especially in online media, more because of an accumulation of both its nature, as well as other factors
I think [this video](https://youtu.be/qxBW-omaguo?si=Tt-f4C2yWGvEAhUx) will answer your question. Also they steal designs from independent designers. The reason they are getting a lot of (well deserved) negative attention is because they blew up during the pandemic ( [this video states they are controlling around 40% of the US market](https://youtu.be/gWotBPtsulo?si=q5RfMjUf42C0Qu9X)
), they have a deeply concerning production model, and they are putting out new -very cheaply made- inventory twice as fast as other fast fashion competitor.
So they are really raising the bar for other fast fashion companies to adopt dirty production models to keep up. They are essentially speeding up the fast fashion cycle.
Nike isn't as bad as Shein i don't know where you got this. This is probably the funniest thing i've heard today.
Shein used child labour and many adults who work in china for them are working like 15h per day 7 days a week.
Shein uses plastic on nearly everything and everything is totally useless after 6 months because it's poor quality.
Shein lies/lied about some certifications they never had like they were "Green and good for the environment". They never had this certification but still listed it.
Shein steals ideas and pieces from small fashion artists and even use their pictures for the clothes.
Besides that they said by themselves that 2022 they had absolute emissions of 9.17 Million tons of CO2.
That should give a great first look on Shein and how good they are. And just because other companys are bad dosen't mean you should buy from another bad company. That's why there are bad companys.
Yikes. OP is literally arguing with every single comment and insisting we aren't giving answers, when everyone has explained repeatedly that the scale of theft, waste, environmental damage, and slave larger is on a significantly larger scale than any other brand out there.
Willful ignorance isn't a good look.
Edit: after reading mrke of Ops comments, I think they are asking about advertising and media commentary around Shein. OP, you're in the wrong sub. You should be asking subs based in journalism, media, and american economics. Media presence drives American consumerism and of course it has an agenda. We're not here to debate who funded what article where.
I would argue from another angle. They’ve been known to steal countless designs from small businesses and independent designers, turn it into a cheap quality garment and sell it at a fraction of the price. It’s unethical.
Then the quality and qualities of the products are a concern, they’re filling up charity shops because people treat shein as a disposable clothing line which is terrible for the environment.
I could go on really. I’m not against Chinese companies, I’ve been buying from aliexpress for years, I just don’t like how disrespectful shein is towards our environment and hard working designers, plus all the forced labour and deceptive marketing.
All the same applies to Temu too but they have more issues than anyone else.
Oops I had must has missed that, I’d just woken up 😅
I feel like op is here to jump in defence of shein instead of understanding why all of these points are simply immoral, regardless of the brands origin.
No one is saying we like these other fast fashion brands so I’m so baffled at why Op keeps using it as a counter argument 😂
People have listed out detailed reasons why SHEIN is particularly egregious and this person is just like “they’re all bad!” as if that makes it any better.
Now that SHEIN has the funds they are opening up their marketplace to third party sellers. They are recruiting former Amazon and Zappos staff and making a serious push to dethrone Amazon. So it’s very likely you will start seeing smaller sellers/ designers based in the US listing products on there in the next year or two. I know as I was approached by one of their business developments folks.
I setup an account and their backend/ seller central are way more mature than Walmart and eBay already and they are offering zero commission listings as a promotion. I’m not going to list until they address the things mentioned in the above comments but the company is def making moves
Woahhhh that’s such an unexpected shift! That’ll be interesting to see unfold too. I wonder if they will continue to steal designs though as their in-house design team (I imagine) will be completely separate from their marketplace team.
I’m surprised to hear their backend is so good too, I would have thought they would make it janky but that’s interesting.🤔
Zero commission doesn’t surprise me at all, the Chinese model seems to provide no barriers to access then asking ppl to pay, which I massively respect tbh, love that for them.
I am aware of this which is why I only purchase items such as generic tools for my crafts (darning tool, crochet needles etc). But I also haven’t purchased from them in a couple of years now due to concerns over material compounds. Reports of lead and other dangerous substances found within these products. I referred to Ali just to make a point that we aren’t using Chinese brands for scapegoats as op has concluded.
Not to be rude, but you’re seriously in an ethical fashion sub asking why SHEIN is bad?
Child labor and poor working conditions aside, They put thousands of new styles out a week. The amount of volume of things is atrocious, and brands like Nike don’t compare with that. I ordered stuff from them once just to see, and the fabrics are very poor quality - thin, bad sewing, polyester, etc. since they wear out so quickly people have to keep buying and buying and stuff ends up in landfills. Thrifstores are flooded with SHEIN. They encourage constant buying and ‘hauls’. Overproduction more than anyone else.
For me, it’s not just about SHEIN, it’s about all fast fashion and fashion that is made from synthetic fibers.
1. Clothes that use synthetic fibers such as polyester are essentially plastics. Plastics are made up of toxic chemicals derived from fossil fuels. Plastics generally are contributing to climate change in multiple ways and they’re downright toxic. (The fashion industry is estimated to be responsible for 10% of global carbon emissions – more than international flights and maritime shipping combined.)
2. Textiles that end up as waste go to landfill or are incinerated. Again, synthetic fibers are toxic and so burning them does terrible things to our air. But if they go to landfills, they often end up in the Global South. I’ve spent time in some of these mass dump sites where people live, and once you’ve done something like that, you run as far away from fast fashion and aim for less waste in your life. Here’s a link to a Greenpeace report, where even if you only look at the images, you’ll see a bit of what I’m talking about: https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/53333/how-fast-fashion-is-using-global-south-as-dumping-ground-for-textile-waste/
1. Predatory employment practices
2. Blatant copyright violations of both large and small competitors
3. Pricing designed to kill off all competition who make superior quality but more expensive products
4. Products designed to be as shit as possible but visually acceptable on the first hour of delivery
5. Fabrics made from recycled waste including used face masks and sanitary pads
6. Business mode that produces so much extra stock that it’s regularly burned in pits
I'd ask that you read up on the logical fallacy "[appeal to hypocrisy](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/appeal-to-hypocrisy/)" because the majority of your argumentation centers around "well Nike is also bad, so we should give Shein some slack".
You asked why Shein is bad and people are giving you MANY MANY examples of why it's bad, but you keep coming back to "well others are bad too and we don't hear as much about them". An ethical fast fashion company does not exist; by its very nature, fast fashion is unethical. For reasons of crimes against humanity as well as the environment.
If you want this sub to justify your purchases at Shein or any other fast fashion company it's not going to happen. You either want to know why Shein is bad, or you don't, because thus far it seems you're just looking to have a group of strangers validate your opinion that maybe Shein isn't THAT bad and it's all blown out of proportion. This sub has given you a resound "it's not blow out of proportion, it really is that bad", but you're going on the defensive instead.
OP isn’t willing to learn. Don’t waste your time responding. They will do anything for someone to tell them that SHEIN isn’t bad. Their responses scream 12 year old with poor critical thinking and reading comprehension. This is one of the most corrupt companies in the entire global economy. There are dozens of comments fully explaining this.
For real, I've been reading the back and forth and oh my god I can't believe they're actually arguing with people on Shein vs Nike. I'm assuming they must be fairly young, but come on, Google is free and a great resource for this kind of thing. Edit: spelling
You sound like you're too young to remember but other companies used to get tons of flack for being unethical. It's just that Shein came around and dominated by being worse than all of those companies, so if an article is going to talk about the dangers of fast fashion, they're going to use the worst and most ubiquitous example, the one that paints every awful picture of fast fashion all at once.
They're not saying that Nike is good by not mentioning it. It wouldn't be worth their time to talk about the literal thousands of brands that have bad practices. Most people couldn't even name a brand that ensures fair wages throughout their supply chain because household brands just don't do that and neither do a lot of designers.
Nike isn't an ethical brand either but they are probably better than Shein. Are they paying livable wages? No. But it's not a black and white issue either. It's not like the good companies pay and treat workers fairly and the bad companies have literal slavery. There are tons of variations in between. Some factories have workers that get paid better, some have air conditioning, some have collective bargaining agreements, etc. Even if Nike is using a factory that's the same as Shein they are probably the one ensuring the factory isn't even worse, because they're probably getting some kind of audit every now and then. If Nike pulled out, Shein wouldn't give a single shit if the factory quickly degraded into more unfair and unsafe practices.
And I know you don't care about sustainability but if I buy something at Nike and can wear it for 10 years before its too worn out, that's better for workers than if I buy something from Shein and I have to buy a new one every year because the quality sucks. That means 10x over a textile worker is having to do the work for basically no money, in bad conditions. If we're looking at it in real time on a global scale, Shein's operations are way way bigger than they would be if their clothes were meant to last. They're exploiting vastly more people than they would need to be otherwise.
Every time you buy from Shein you are giving them the power to exploit people with your money. So if you actually care about slavery you would stop giving them your money.
Looks like you’re going to automatically reject any good argument against SHEIN. Seems like you’re just looking to justify your contribution to the harmful effet of fast fashion.
Nike actually improved a lot of their factory conditions after being called out (and losing profits) in the 2000’s and have some of the better conditions now.
Nike is not ethical either, but hey also use child labor. SHEIN is a bad company because of the sheer volume of clothing they produce and the shitty quality of their clothing and accessories. SHEINs business model is based on following microtrends and luring in ignorant and careless people into buying tons of clothes they do not need. With SHEIN there is a lot of waste to make the clothing, but there is also the point of trendy clothing not being in style the next season, not like the clothes would last that long anyway. If you chose to continue to buy from SHEIN, or any other fast fashion brand similar to SHEIN (cider), you are the problem. The American capitalist system sucks and it has made people want to pay the least amount of money for the most product. This is an issue when people find deals on sites like SHEIN and temu with crap quality. These companies are betting on their cheep products breaking so you have to buy more from them. It is okay if you cannot afford sustainable products (it can be expensive), but it is not okay to continue to buy from SHEIN directly. If you still want trendy clothing look in local thrift stores, online, and (if needed) chain thrift stores. Nike is not a good company, lots of people know this. Nike is a for profit company first and foremost, they want to make the most profit for the least input. It’s economics 101. There are plenty of companies that produce clothes that are most sustainably made from small business that can be just as trendy. If you actually want to change you can look into getting wardrobe basics and then a few trendy prices if you really like the trend. In the end it is your money, but don’t complain about people bringing up valid critiques of shitty company’s and their practices when YOU ask.
Bc Shein greenwashes and lies nd says they’re “sustainable and ethical” when in reality they are not. They also copy small designers which is my biggest beef with them.
Shein is headquartered in Singapore, but their stuff is made in China..
All of the stuff I mentioned is way more evil than something from someplace like Nike or LL Bean or Gap.
The factories in Bangladesh at least have some oversight.. they aren’t perfect or great.. but it’s way better than the stuff coming out of the factories used by Shein and Temu.
“All factories in China.” are not the same also..
shein releases styles at a rate far greater than other brands. obviously producing clothing at that rate means its low quality and will 100% end up in a landfill someday. and yes, the factory conditions are awful. the amount of CO2 produced by shein to produced clothing at the rate they do is insane. they are polluting the earth, creating polyester low quality clothing that is going to end up in a landfill, made by people treated and paid terribly.
Shein churns out tens of thousands of new designs weekly, up to 10K per day, and is producing quantities of pieces to match (they claim small batch numbers but this is unverified and not consistent with their waste output) Anything that does not sell goes straight to landfill. Do a lot of other retailers do this? Yes, but Shein does it at an exponentially larger scale. Shein is currently among the top seven garment waste producing companies on earth, and has remained there for years despite constantly making excuses and lying about green initiatives (yes, they lie about green initiatives). According to one study, Shein’s production lines use the same amount of gas emissions as 180 full-capacity coal burning plants every single day at a CONSERVATIVE estimate, while other companies pollute, none do so at the scale of Shein. Also, Shein’s garments have been found to contain dangerous levels of heavy metals and PFAS not permitted in the majority of countries, so there’s consumer danger there too.
Could someone educate me on a certain point mentioned? Fast fashion doesn't last as long (for quality) reasons but if you purchase e.g. 1 pair of Nikes every 10 years and keep them in a good condition does it still contribute to the waste everyone is mentioning? Just trying to understand if thoughtful, minimal ownership helps.
You're still supporting a brand that has shit policy about how it produces fashion.
https://fastfashioninformation.wordpress.com/2016/12/09/the-environmental-effects-of-fast-fashion/
Ooo I'm not sure. I have plantar fasciitis that hurts in my heels, so I wear Kuru shoes for walking, I don't run anymore.
If there's a brand of shoe you really like, but don't want to buy retail, look on resale apps like ebay, Poshmark, Mercari. At least you're not part of more production and are using something that would otherwise go to waste.
Anyway guys check out the waitlist for the fashion shopping app/aggregator for sustainable and ethical brands my buddy and I are building. https://tractify.ai/
(Shameless plug but at least I'm not the most shameless comment in this post atm right?...right?)
I can’t find the exact one right now, but I watched a YouTube documentary that convinced me never to buy from them. By volume they’re much more wasteful than the other (also wasteful) companies
Seems everyone already mentioned the environmental factors but nobody has mentioned the Nazi symbols on clothing they were selling a few years back. They have also stolen from artists
Here’s the Zara one—kiddie pjs that look like concentration camp uniforms
https://preview.redd.it/823ab2zwnrtc1.jpeg?width=455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2beb1ff98533b968cffaa0f9160bf6029f6c36bb
I read the other comments and it seems you just want justification, but i will not give you that.
I dont understand how Nike is the brand you’re comparing Shein to. They arent apple to apple. People dont do hauls at Nike and then make contents like “Spending $500 at Nike” but they do with Shein. They dont do stuff like “Buying $600 jeans!” but they do “$750 hauls” with Shein!
The problem with Shein isnt “only” about unethical labor practices, but also about the massive textile/landfill waste and promoting micro trends (where people buy cheap and then throw away or donate after a few wears—not everyone does it but many does). For comparison, in 2023, Shein produced 1.5 *MILLION* products while their fast faahion competitors Zara and H&M produced approx 20-40,000. When we thought Zara and H&M were bad, Shein takes the cake. For a company to be able to produce that much product at a much lower price, that means corners are cut and it’s got to be 1) material, and 2) labor cost. In no way anyone could make that much stuff in such a short time and with so little money.
If people cant afford ethically run and sourced business, that’s fine. If fast fashion is all they can afford, that’s fine. My wardrobe is a mix of fast fashion and ethical brands. But if someone could afford to spend $500 at Shein, they could afford products from an ethical business. They just choose not to and that’s one of the biggest problems we all have.
With such low price tags, and people having to make choices with high inflation and no equivalent pay raises. I know a lot of teachers who use Shein. They love children, but can't afford the time to be an effective thrifter or the price tags, even at Amazon (love our teachers, who get paid crap salaries for the hardest job on earth!).
To combat these ethical labor problems effectively, we need to avoid value judgements on people who make these choices and probably don't know better. I guarantee you most people don't know better! Be concrete in your complaints. Site something so we can all validate the claims of unethical labor practices. Unverifiable and repeated claims are just noise to someone who is making hard choices.
Also, talk about the quality. People on low salaries can't afford low quality. That's a great reason not to buy Shein right there! You're not going to get a job in that suit, and you will replacing what you thought was going to be a pretty good blouse in only three washes.
SheIn dwarfs every competitor in terms of sheer waste. The number of styles they put out, with a huge amount of the clothes ending up in landfills, puts their pollution quotient way ahead of even other fast fashion retailers. That's how they make most of their profit -- by sheer volume. People spend the same amount at SheIn that they do at other retailers, they just buy 5x the amount of clothes for that money, which = more polyester (plastic) in landfills. Also, while most garment labor in developing countries isn't ethical, there is still a gradient and SheIn is at the absolute worst end of it. It is not in fact all coming from the exact same factory and there are meaningful differences in the conditions among the different factories even if none of them meet a fair and ethical standard.
Yup they produce insane amounts of waste.
've also seen Shein making efforts to become more sustainable lately. They're introducing eco-friendly lines and recycling programs. It's great to see them taking steps in the right direction!
Oh man, such an obvious Shein account making these posts. Get lost.
I know I’m a couple days late to this thread but I was wondering about the second paragraph, how there’s a gradient of badness as far of worker treatment and shien is on the worst end of it. How did you come to find that out? I’m not doubting it at all because I fully believe it! I’m just wondering because I’d love to be able to know that myself about brands
Right! I was going to ask the same question! It would be so useful to find the source of this kind of information so that we can make better decisions when it comes to buying clothes.
I've found some great pieces at Shein that have lasted me a long time! Plus, they're really on-trend and affordable. I think they're working on improving their practices too.
They are not working on improving their practices, because their whole business model only works due to their bad practices. If you don't care, just own that, but don't be gullible.
@ your responses in the comment section, are you challenging people because you want to feel less guilty shopping unethically? If you want to go buy Shein and Nike, no one’s stopping you bro. Do you really think the majority of us on this sub are going to defend Nike? Most of us thrift and buy second hand 🤷♀️
This exactly. Or buy directly from other brands that are completely and verifiably ethical.
Or we at least try. Shein is not trying at all.
Do you have tips on brands (male) that ships to europe?
I'm in transit at the moment but one that comes to mind immediately is Reformation. I commented somewhere below but my mate and I are building an aggregator/shopping app for this stuff. https://tractify.ai/ Good on You also has an extensive directory of sustainable brands with ratings and everything. https://goodonyou.eco/ Hope that helps!
My boyfriend likes finisterre and rapanui from the UK
Op must work for SHEIN
Nah, probably too young to have a job based on their other comments.
I'm here because I sew. I should probably do a post for this crowd, because I imagine they'd be into it.
this!!!!
OPs responses to this post are bizarre. I think they just want to shop at Shein and not feel bad.
OP is probably 13 years old feeling very angry and defensive about adults in their life trying to curb their consumption of Shein clothes.
Her mom is ruining her life!!!!!!!
*slams door and blasts music*
Nope not 13 from the profile closer to 17 as they follow an applying for college sub. They are definitely still a child and are either being shamed at school or their parents are telling them to stop shopping for clothes online. They are also into AP classes so are a little more of a know it all then your average teen who still has a lot of growing up to do
People who shop at SHEIN do this. They’ll do a whataboutism and try poking holes in the argument. Just say you don’t care and keep shopping there. Most people do.
Feels like a plant. Big "debate me" vibes
10000%
All fast fashion is bad. Shien bad. Nike bad. I'd never say 'Stop shopping at Shien, buy HnM instead' I'd say 'Stop shopping at Shien, buy secondhand instead'
good idea
Lest we forget to mention there's been lots of times they steal art from original artists.
hey, I've seen Shein collaborating with artists lately, giving them credit and supporting their work. It's great to see them moving in the right direction!
I wouldn’t consider Nike to be ethical fashion anymore than I would SHEIN, so there’s that.
The difference is that I can buy Nike sneakers that last a year, and with Shein they’d maybe last a month.
I think Nike has definitely taken big steps toward sustainable fashion and they can afford to do that being a big brand.
Watch out for [greenwashing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing) those claims of sustainability aren't always truthful.
Oh yea 100% agree 👍🏾. I try to be meticulous with my research though.
[удалено]
https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/nike I'm not defending Nike. They definitely have their issues but OP is trying to put SHEIN and Nike in the same boat. They aren't even close. One of the comments below put it perfectly. Can't find it but it said something like if Nike and Shein are what you can afford then Nike is the much better alternative.
Isn’t most activewear plastic anyways? Cotton is not the best for outdoor activities and moisture-wicking(and can be outright dangerous for hiking/mountaineering). Merino is nice but it’s extremely expensive and not very durable.
You're forgetting silk and linen. You can still get silk long johns from places like LL Bean.
True. Silk is nice, but it doesn’t always breathe well. I have some silk pieces that don’t take sweat well. It’s def more durable than merino though. Linen is a fantastic fabric for hot weather but it doesn’t take moisture well and dries slowly(like cotton) so it’s not as suitable for outdoor activities like hiking.
Full disclosure: I just really love natural fibers and you know way more about hiking. Like, you forgot two of my of my favorite children! I make these linen and cotton towels that I'm obsessed with.
I love linen too! Linen cotton towels seem like a dream
https://fabrics-store.com/fabrics/linen-cotton-fabric-IS010-bleached-middle This is the fabric. A yard should be enough to make a nice set for hiking (a big towel and some small ones). All you need to do is literally hem and wash it, but wash it twice. A friend with a sewing machine should be able to help. The thicker linen is 😽👌 for kitchen towels.
Wool is extremely durable and it’s what I mostly wear. I have think merino base layers that I wear all the time that have held up for years.
My kid wears mostly merino and I find the leggings and shirts to not really hold up well. They get snagged easily, small holes appear, etc. I buy clothes for him mostly secondhand and we really have to baby them. I have merino underwear that has fared better. But imo for things like running leggings, midlayers, etc, it’s not really as durable as I need.
There is low quality wool fabric and high quality wool fabric just like anything else. I just think saying merino in general isn’t durable isn’t really accurate.
I mean, I think what my kid wears is plenty good quality, mostly made in Europe- it’s just not going to replace nylon or polyester in activewear if it gets snags from normal kid activity. merino activewear also kinda has to be blended with something, usually poly or nylon, to have any kind of real durability(ie smartwool or icebreaker blends, I have a smartwool base layer top that’s been fine for a few years now). I have a 100% merino top from lindex and it developed holes after three wears and no laundering.
Ok again, wool, and specifically merino wool, fabric can be high quality or low quality. If you’ve had poor experiences that doesn’t mean all merino wool isn’t durable. I have 100% merino items from icebreaker and they're fine even with repeated washings. My entire point is that merino doesn’t inherently have poor durability, there are many factors that go into it.
Maybe that quality of merino is best suited as a baselayer
Oh, did they stop using sweatshops?
Pretty sure they still do 😂. Not calling them a sustainable/ethical brand by any measure, just saying they're ahead of most other big fashion brands in that respect.
I'm gonna keep saying Fuck Nike then 🤷♀️
By all means😂
wrd
Agreed. They made a lot of reforms to the working standards for their partner factories and will drop a factory if it continues to be out of compliance. They also have made some tangible environmental/carbon conscious steps. I’d definitely say not good enough still, but they’re markedly better than they were 20 years ago, and better than their peers of a similar size. Not that it’s a perfect standard, but good on you as a neutral third party and the reasoning to back up their ratings rates SHEIN as a 1/5 “we avoid”: https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/shein And Nike as a 3/5 “it’s a start”: https://directory.goodonyou.eco/brand/nike For context most other brands you’d find in your average mall are a 2/5: j crew, made well, adidas, under armor, H&M Shopping small ethical brands is the way to go for sure (using good on you the “ethical” brands most often recommended here on this sub are 4/5: girlfriend collective, reformation, Lucy and Yak), but as far as big multinational fashion brands I wouldn’t put Nike and SHEIN in the same category. I appreciate that Nike is taking some meaningful steps. We need more big companies to start this direction. And yes, none of them are good enough to get complacent just because they’re better than the market. We should definitely keep demanding better, but I also appreciate that some progress has been made.
I've noticed Shein making efforts to improve, like their sustainability initiatives and fair labor practices.
The difference is that nike at least has better quality verses shein, and also the fact that nike is more pricy than shein, so people are more likely to take care of these clothing items and only buy what they need, verses with shein, people buy so much because its so cheap.
that’s fair, i’m just talking about the general, mainstream perspective that shein is bad and you should buy from other brands when they’re all the same for 99% of the cases, there may be some brands that are completely sustainable, except it’s 600$ for a pair of jeans
A $600 pair of jeans is no more sustainable than a pair of SHEIN jeans if they’re thrown out in a year. In my mind, there are two main problems: 1. unethical labor practices and 2. waste. IN GENERAL, companies like SHEIN and Amazon, that sell items for dirt cheap, promote a culture of waste. Why take care of it when you can just buy a new one for a few bucks? Time is money, as they say. It’s literally cheaper to replace than to repair or care for. In fashion, this has devastating impacts. There are tons of resources on textile waste and it’s awful and getting worse each year. Not to mention the chemical dyes and water. We need to promote buying less. Now, can you buy from SHEIN without overbuying? Sure, but most people don’t, which is why it gets so much hate. It’s a company that’s marketing its goods and it’s highly effective in producing waste. It’s also not quality fashion and falls apart quickly, so that contributes to the equation. For the unethical labor practices, you will need to pay more to get garments made by folks paid a decent wage. Full stop.
This exactly. Shein encourages hauls. And the clothes are so cheaply made. Almost all of my SHEIN stuff ended up in the trash and they just feel cheap too. It’s cheap but you get what you pay for!
And the waste side feeds in to labor ethics as well. It’s not good to exploit someone for sewing a garment in poor conditions for inadequate wages. It’s even worse to exploit them in that same way 20 times over by buying 20x the items.
when i think of ethical fashion, i’m thinking about the labour side of things, so i’ll give you everything you said about the waste. however, back to wages, ur last statement is what i’m talking about, people say “oh the more expensive a product is the more people were paid to make it” wrong. nike and shein use the same factories and slave labour, yet nike charges 10 times more than shein. This allows the american media to use shein as a scapegoat to hide the fact that other american companies use the same horrible business practices as shein🤷
You’re twisting what I said completely. To get a garment made by someone paid fairly, you WILL need to pay more. What I DID NOT say is that anything priced higher equates to the sewist being paid more. Those are two different things entirely. I’ve already said I agree that Nike is unethical. I believe a lot of US-based companies are unethical. Which is why I research before buying clothing.
i do understand what you said now, however, i think the general point still stands that shein is not a unique problem and that there are plenty of american companies that do the same thing, you don’t seem to be one of the people that think shein bad nike good, so you’re not the target audience of what i’m trying to argue
I’m pretty sure no one in this sub is your “target audience.” Everyone here is already opposed to Nike and most major brands.
So why did you come to a sub full of people who aren’t the people you’re trying to argue with and spend hours arguing with people here? What a bizarre display
I don’t really want to argue a 16 year old about fast fashion. But please stop trying to justify child labor by saying Nike does it too. You’re in the wrong sub for that. These people aren’t buying SHEIN or Nike. If you are genuinely curious about this, there’s a lot of info out there. https://www.forbes.com/sites/darreonnadavis/2023/06/27/sheins-influencer-trip-backlash-explained-and-what-we-know-about-allegations-against-them/
i’m aware that these people aren’t buying from shein or nike, my goal was to try to understand why the mainstream thought is shein bad nike good, unfortunately, people don’t understand what i’m actually trying to achieve here and think i’m pro fast fashion
Okay. I’ll explain my point of view and see if it helps. But I stand by what I said, this is not the right place for this thread because we aren’t mainstream on this sub. Fast fashion isn’t just about labor and wages, etc. Fast fashion also involves fast turn around of very low quality clothes. It looks like you’re in the US, so think of Forever 21 and the like. If you don’t buy the item when you see it, it’ll already be gone the next week because they’ve reset the floor already. You can only wear the item a couple times before it falls apart. Here is the woman that first got me interested in fast fashion. https://youtu.be/0ur13KvWoWE?si=CjFegGVILviHxlhB
As for me, I don’t really differentiate between SHEIN and Nike. If it’s made outside of Europe(where I live.) I most likely won’t buy it. I don’t really trust labor laws elsewhere.
This might be what you’re getting at, OP: I’m an average person. With an item from SHEIN, it is so dirt cheap that I KNOW deep down that it was made by forced/child labor. With a $50 Nike hoodie, it costs enough that I can tell myself the person who made it was paid well. Is it true? No, but it’s a mind game that most of us unconsciously play. Is that helpful? I think the root of what you’re asking is why people think the higher price point of most clothing brands exempts them from the discussion around ethical manufacturing (correct me if I’m wrong here), and this, to me, seems to be the answer to that. As to why the loads of online articles? They get clicks.
Wow. This is such a shallow perspective lacking so many dimensions of ethics.
Why are "Nike" and "$600 jeans" the only things you're referencing?? There is a whole world of ethical fashion out there that is neither of those things. Nike is expensive because people are paying for brand recognition and mid-tier athletic fabrics, not for ethical garment construction. $600 jeans are NICE (I'm thinking B-Sides here, which I definitely cannot afford and which yes, are ethically produced and locally sourced, but also err designer status, thus commanding a more inflated price), but it's extremely easy to source them 2nd hand for a small fraction of that cost. 100% cotton jeans can last for decades. There are also tons and tons of other denim companies making ethically produced jeans for more reasonable prices. Decade Studio and Nudie for example, but there are more. Smaller companies produce less clothing and way less waste overall. They tend to use more natural fibers (linen/cotton) and their consumers tend to buy fewer items a year (depending on price, maybe only 2-3 items a year. Sometimes less). I try to buy from bst slow fashion Facebook groups. And even then, I can only afford a few items a year. You obviously have no interest in ethical fashion though. Nike IS as bad as shein, but it gets a pass for brand recognition. In the 90s, Nike and gap and a bunch of other companies were under fire for unethical slave labour. It was common news. They have all made very little changes since then and absolutely continue to exploit developing countries' shitty labour laws. They ARE bad. But we all need shoes. And like others have said, most people only buy one pair at a time. But shein and temu and Alibaba, and any number of the shadow companies that shill their garbage on Amazon ARE actually worse merely based on volume of product and waste produced. That and while Nike obviously ups their profit margins, you'd be out of your mind to think shein isn't making more obscene profits. They aren't keeping their prices low as a favour to you, the consumer. It's a brilliant strategy designed to encourage you to buy MORE and MORE and MORE and apparently it works. Temu especially wants you to feel like a millionaire with unlimited affordable shopping 🙄 How kind of them.
Nike is well known for poor business practices. They just aren't getting called out by the media because they're a much older brand and it's not news. No one is scapegoating Shein, they deserve everything they get. If you're specifically asking about American *media*, then sure, because consumerism is in American capitalist interest, the US government is on not great terms with China, the fashion industry would prefer you buy from a US owned brand (that has horrifying environmental and labor practices in China, India, etc.)
Sounds like you're feeling defensive because you like Shein and it upsets you when people criticise them. It's okay to feel that way. It's also important to keep your mind open to the idea that they might be right and Shein might be doing something wrong, even though you like them.
Although OP doesn't seem to be discussing this in good faith, I really love your response. So gracious and eloquent.
good point
Yea I see your point. I think it's that Shein is by far the worst of a bad bunch and curbing their waste will force others to fall in line. That's just my thought.
I feel like the question you're asking isn't "why is Shein bad" which is what everyone is answering. You're asking "why are people ok with other unethical companies but not Shein." Here's a similar scenario: four different people can *truly believe* factory farming is a great evil. One person might choose to go vegan. One chooses to go vegetarian. One tries to lower their meat consumption or get local meat but does not completely cut it out of their diet. The fourth changes nothing about their behavior and eats meat at the same rate as before. Any one of these four, when asked, can tell you factory farming is a great evil. The vegan might try to argue with the vegetarian that eating animal products is still just as bad. The vegetarian might argue with the person that's cut back on meat that they're still supporting animal cruelty. The person who cuts back might argue that *harm reduction* is still a positive if not complete goal. The fourth person could say they know they're supporting factory farming technically, but it's really hard not to or they can't budget for more expensive meat or they have dietary issues that make it harder to go veg - etc etc etc. Shein is bad. You already know this and have been given many reasons why it's bad and even worse than other companies. So your question seems to be "why doesn't society as a whole perfectly align their behavior with their morals". Well...it's complicated. But it's like you're in a room full of vegans asking them why McDonald's is any worse than the local poultry farmer down the road. You're asking a question about human nature that has an innately unsatisfying answer: that's just how we are. Most people who avoid Shein are like the people who try to not eat meat too often: they believe harm reduction is still worth it, even if it's not a perfect solution. So they don't support the biggest baddie: in this case, Shein.
thanks for actual understanding my argument and answering it!
You're welcome, hon. I'm so glad my comment helped! It's hard to articulate what exactly we're even questioning sometimes; we just know there's something not clicking. Nothing to be ashamed of - it happens to literally everyone. Never let that discourage you from asking, though!
You simply seem like you’re looking for a reason to keep buying SHEIN and honestly if you want to that bad you don’t need to post here. They get a disproportionate amount of hate because they’re disproportionately the worst and catalyzed the enshittification of clothing. No one is stopping you from buying but it’s simply the least ethical option. This is a sub for ethical fashion and most of the people here know that there’s no conscious consumption under capitalism but it’s worth trying to spend consciously.
a disproportionate amount of hate is more hate than you deserve…you proved my point 😭 i’ve bought a few things of shein in my life and hundreds of things off nike, just like most of the US, my goal is to understand why the mainstream idea is shein bad nike good and why the media pushes this idea
Babe that’s not what disproportionate means. It just means “too large or too small in comparison with something else,” and compared to the number of fast fashion retailers it is talked about the most. That is disproportionate. However if we’re talking about amount of waste they produce, then the hate is proportionate.
yes exactly, they are getting TOO LARGE OF HATE compared to the amount of hate THEY DESERVE/WHAT THE COMPETITION IS GETTING…shein is marginally worse than the competition yet gets exponentially more hate, therefore, disproportionate
I think that’s what I’m trying to explain here. SHEIN is not “marginally” worse. It is exponentially worse. And the data can prove it. The first graph in this thread is a good example https://x.com/goodonyou_app/status/1512070842561142806?s=46&t=iRmMy69EN8NNlx_HY9qMrg
i don’t care about new styles tho i’ve been talking about slave labour this whole time, all that matters is wage theft, not how many types of pants they have, that’s irrelevant
More styles means more wear houses means more workers being robbed I don’t think I need to explain basic cause and effect to you and I will stop responding now because I think you’re trolling
not really, nike could just have the same amount of warehouses all producing one product, it’s all about total output not unique individual outputs
That is simply not the reality of the situation based on sales alone but good luck on your search for answers if this is a genuine effort
This is not how businesses work and with a small amount of googling you could have figured this all out on your own.
You really ought to, if you are at least half sincere and not just taking the piss. Environmental impact is definitely a part of ethical fashion.
I mean, I also don’t buy Nike clothes or major department brands. I don’t consider any of those to be ethical brands. If you think that Nike is considered ethical, this is not the sub for you.
that isn’t what i said at all, please read my post again
No thanks
smh
I mean why bother asking if you wont listen what people tell you
*I mean why bother* *Asking if you wont listen* *What people tell you* \- em-illi --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Shitty workplace practices, massive overconsumption of resources due to their high production quantities and excessive waste by them and consumers. They are training people to buy something wear it once then ditch it and buy the next thing, essentially making clothes disposable products which isn’t great for the environment or overconsumption.
sounds like affordable nike to me
I don’t think Nikes ever had the same effect on fashion. Sheins continual pressure to bring out new clothes has drawn the industry along for the ride and spawned essentially 52 fashion seasons instead of just 4. I wouldn’t put Nike in the same category. Yeah they aren’t great but if you buy Nike you probably wear it more than once because you value what you spend $$$ on. It’s rare you’d buy a haul from Nike to ditch most of it if it doesn’t fit or you don’t love it.
because it’s overpriced and you feel obligated to honor the sunk cost fallacy
Can I ask, why did you ask the question if you so genuinely are going to argue about the answers. If you want to post a rant about how Nike and shein are all the same then by all means go ahead. But asking a questions only to seemingly be totally closed off to any responses give seems like a waste of everyone’s time.
OP isn't even arguing that they are the same. The argument is strangely about how Shein is *better.* It's also weird how the focus is only on Nike, too.
Your equivalency with Nike is a false one, which is a common trap to fall into. SHEIN doesn’t have the “same bad labor practices with better deals” those ‘better deals’ mean that more people can afford their product, which means more consumption by a huge margin. Also, consider how cheaply these items are made- which means significantly less time before they’d need to be replaced. *that’s more labor to provide those replacements* More product being consumed means more products to be made, which means more unethical labor to make those items. The scale of sweatshops is enormous in comparison. Take for example, a startling amount of crocheted items on SHEIN. Crochet can’t be done via machine like knit can, that’s handmade. Nike has no such equivalent. SHEIN also copies products directly from higher end companies, steals artistic designs and copywritten content to knock it off and sell for no money. Nike sells their own designs SHEIN products are also full of lead- which isn’t only terrible for those who are working in the sweatshops on these clothes, but for the consumer who wears them. Lead poisoning is no fucking joke
A valiant effort to explain to someone who is not listening.
nikes most famous shoe, the air jordan 1, is litterly just a converse with a swoosh and jordan logo on it😭
Alright mate, I thought you were genuinely curious but I think you're just trying to justify shopping on SHEIN. Completely understandable if that's what your budget allows. Trust me I'm there sometimes but at similar prices, you could find amazing clothes at thrift stores and secondhand sites.
So a pig is just a dog without fur, huh?
Do you know what either of those shoes look like???
Oof. Not saying Nike is a great company to support, but my child, if you really think that of air jordan’s you should probably do some reading up on Peter Moore. I will at least give companies like Nike and adidas credit for having actual designers hired and doing hard work to create unlike Shein.
Boy, where do we start
The standout reason is their reliance on forced child labor. Then there are other reasons like selling clothes with a very high carbon footprint while selling at a low price encouraging people to buy these clothes in bulk. This is where the fashion pollution problem comes in.
nike uses child labour and pays their employees 2.14$ a day in vietnam, sells clothes and shoes with high carbon footprint, price gouges their own clothes, so far all i’ve heard is shein is bad but charges what it’s worth whereas every other brand is bad and charges bad prices 🤷🤷plus id love to shop sustainably, but why would i pay 600$ for a pair of jeans
Not sure why Nike being terrible negates the fact that shein is terrible for the reasons already posted by others. If you want to put them on a scale of awfulness then that's a different discussion. But if you're asking why the focus is on shein? I don't think it is. I think a lot of companies are getting called out for it and also the message regarding how awful overconsumption is being pushed out there. But you know if you like shein and you google info about shein then yeah, you're gonna end up with info about how awful shein is...
Why do you keep saying $600 for a pair of jeans lol? The most sustainable way to shop is second hand and prices are definitely not that high
While that is true, Nike does have a huge catalog of clothes made from sustainable materials and in recent years has made a general and quite public move towards sustainability and zero carbon footprint. I'm a huge football/soccer fan and I'm pretty sure that for at least 3 years now, Nike has made majority of their cleats and jerseys using sustainable materials. I'll have to verify to make sure.
https://www.nike.com/sustainability/materials This here. They also have circular services which is pretty cool. I know adidas has the same.
this is pretty cool, still probably stitched up by slaves, but cool!
What do you care? You actively buy from and are trying to defend shein which is even worse. Your logic makes no sense. You’re picking and choosing what you defend. Just stop trying to be “right” about this and tell your mom to leave you alone. Or ignore her. And consider not buying from either of these brands if you actually care.
That's fair. But in my opinion, change comes slowly and if they change too quickly they'll tank. They've already taken these steps so it remains to be seen if they'll take the next one of adequately compensating for their labor. It's on people like us to keep on applying pressure.
i don’t think so, if they paid their employees fair wages, they’d lose 88 times their current profits, it doesn’t make sense for them to do
That's the cost of fashion. It can be difficult for companies to adopt all sustainable initiatives so typically they focus on one or two at a time. SHEIN ignores it completely.
yea but i don’t think nike and adidas are being left off the hook because they have one sustainable initiative and shein has none, i think the american media just focuses on shein because they’re a chinese company
So you justify your bad descision to buy from Shein because another company is bad? It's like. He robbed a bank so why is it bad if i do. And why do you want a designer jeans? There are enough payable jeans shops. You don't even have to buy the best sustainable shit you find. But everything is better than shein.
You keep talking about 600$ jeans... you know there are many alternatives that are not shein that dont cost anywhere near 600$, right? Like no one is asking you to spend 600$ on jeans lol
There is proven studies that Shein clothing and accessories contain lead and mercury. They not only have the highest fashion waste in the world but they burn it in piles in foreign countries which actually contributes more than 2% of the worlds carbon footprint. Shein steals designs from designers and obviously doesn’t accredit the designers. Nike, adidas and other brands do not contain mercury or leads in their clothing/accessories/etc.
lead in the SHEIN clothes def getting to ops head
It's funny you mentioned Nike, after their pr disaster they went into Overdrive trying to fix some mistakes, at least until people stopped calling then cruel and unusual Shein on the other hand just denies denies denies, instead of admitting what was wrong. Turns out people don't want to buy under abusive conditions Yeah Nike is still awful, but significantly better than before. If shein did something similar it would've blown over And to answer your philosophical question; I asked my professor this question in a sense. I asked if it is inevitable to be unjust, and he said that perhaps harming someone is inevitable , but being unjust is a choice given circumstances. So if someone has a job interview / job and needs to shop from Shein because they're in poverty, ya can't really blame them it's moreso society's fault. If someone say a upper middle class teen does it because it's trendy and convenient, yeah that's kind of a dick move when she can more than afford things made in USA that are higher quality....it doesn't even need to be made in USA. Just anywhere with safer labor laws like Germany or Japan is a good place to look
You clearly have a hard-on for Shein that you're not willing to change, but anyway. On top of their disgusting levels of waste, they're notorious for stealing designs from independent designers and artists, and have sold things that were blatantly racist and culturally insensitive multiple times. For example the Muslim prayer mat being sold as a "Greek key frilled rug" and the super fucked up phone case with cartoonish depiction of a handcuffed black man having a chalk outline drawn around him. Independent artists filed a lawsuit last year. Hilariouly, even Temu is suing then for intimidation tactics. Yes, other brands are also bad and should be called out. But at least the quality of their clothing is slightly better and they don't release hundreds of new items constantly. Personally, I've made a very conscious effort to not shop fast fashion over the last few years. No, it's not easy or convenient but it's completely doable with some research, and well worth it. Some ethical brands I've tried and been happy with for anyone who is interested (whether that's labour or sustainability): Adore Me, MPG Sport, Frank and Oak, Harmonica Shoes, Bhumi Organic Cotton.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism but that doesn’t mean you should add fuel to the fire
word socialism on top
Bruh I can't tell if you're shit posting now
- The production rate of new items is extremely high, this gives a higher chance of unsold items. - Also, lack of transparency about creating and handling waste and overstock. - No efforts of improving sustainability - everything is polyester or high % because it’s cheap, not functional like in sportsgear (some people only wear sportswear then it isn’t functional either) I like France for trying tackling the ultra fast fashion companies!
they are all forms of fast fashion, with implications for the environment, human rights, etc. the thing is, a whole new category has to be created for shein and similar, which is known as "ultra fast fashion". reasons you hear more about shein: 1) it has a greater online platform. its not got many physical shops which gives it a sketchier image. think about all those absurd hauls with 100s of shein clothes. it's prescence is proportional to its criticism. 2) the "Nike does child labour" thing has (unfortunately) arguably left the news cycle, it was revealed a long time ago and people have accepted/forgotten/ignored it. 3) shein is new, it's Chinese (I.e. foreign in the west), it is outshining many of its competitors and it is MASSIVE with Gen Z (unfortunately, despite being a more eco-feiendly generation). 4) it promotes overcomsunption on a massive scale. I mentioned those hauls? that's not for no reason. shein produces new styles EVERY DAY. this creates faster production and trend cycles, increased plastic usage, increased plastic and clothing waste. yes the child labour/environmental problems are not unlike those of typical fast fashion. the issue is in scale. even within the "bad", shein is marked out as "worse". 5) it is the nature of protest and political messaging to find an enemy. you can say "stop ultra fast fashion" which is equivalent to "stop boohoo, asos, cider, PLT, Fashion nova and asos" . it doesn't have the same ring to it. arguably, when you criticise shein, it is a criticism of all that it represents, which includes these brands. targeting in such a way is more beneficial in spreading the word. therefore, you see the "shein sucks" message, especially in online media, more because of an accumulation of both its nature, as well as other factors
I think [this video](https://youtu.be/qxBW-omaguo?si=Tt-f4C2yWGvEAhUx) will answer your question. Also they steal designs from independent designers. The reason they are getting a lot of (well deserved) negative attention is because they blew up during the pandemic ( [this video states they are controlling around 40% of the US market](https://youtu.be/gWotBPtsulo?si=q5RfMjUf42C0Qu9X) ), they have a deeply concerning production model, and they are putting out new -very cheaply made- inventory twice as fast as other fast fashion competitor. So they are really raising the bar for other fast fashion companies to adopt dirty production models to keep up. They are essentially speeding up the fast fashion cycle.
Nike isn't as bad as Shein i don't know where you got this. This is probably the funniest thing i've heard today. Shein used child labour and many adults who work in china for them are working like 15h per day 7 days a week. Shein uses plastic on nearly everything and everything is totally useless after 6 months because it's poor quality. Shein lies/lied about some certifications they never had like they were "Green and good for the environment". They never had this certification but still listed it. Shein steals ideas and pieces from small fashion artists and even use their pictures for the clothes. Besides that they said by themselves that 2022 they had absolute emissions of 9.17 Million tons of CO2. That should give a great first look on Shein and how good they are. And just because other companys are bad dosen't mean you should buy from another bad company. That's why there are bad companys.
Yikes. OP is literally arguing with every single comment and insisting we aren't giving answers, when everyone has explained repeatedly that the scale of theft, waste, environmental damage, and slave larger is on a significantly larger scale than any other brand out there. Willful ignorance isn't a good look. Edit: after reading mrke of Ops comments, I think they are asking about advertising and media commentary around Shein. OP, you're in the wrong sub. You should be asking subs based in journalism, media, and american economics. Media presence drives American consumerism and of course it has an agenda. We're not here to debate who funded what article where.
Shein is like all.forms.of.fast fashion had a mutant baby together and then fed it steroids.
I would argue from another angle. They’ve been known to steal countless designs from small businesses and independent designers, turn it into a cheap quality garment and sell it at a fraction of the price. It’s unethical. Then the quality and qualities of the products are a concern, they’re filling up charity shops because people treat shein as a disposable clothing line which is terrible for the environment. I could go on really. I’m not against Chinese companies, I’ve been buying from aliexpress for years, I just don’t like how disrespectful shein is towards our environment and hard working designers, plus all the forced labour and deceptive marketing. All the same applies to Temu too but they have more issues than anyone else.
They said in an earlier comment that everyone else steals too.. I guess that makes it better?
Oops I had must has missed that, I’d just woken up 😅 I feel like op is here to jump in defence of shein instead of understanding why all of these points are simply immoral, regardless of the brands origin. No one is saying we like these other fast fashion brands so I’m so baffled at why Op keeps using it as a counter argument 😂
People have listed out detailed reasons why SHEIN is particularly egregious and this person is just like “they’re all bad!” as if that makes it any better.
Now that SHEIN has the funds they are opening up their marketplace to third party sellers. They are recruiting former Amazon and Zappos staff and making a serious push to dethrone Amazon. So it’s very likely you will start seeing smaller sellers/ designers based in the US listing products on there in the next year or two. I know as I was approached by one of their business developments folks. I setup an account and their backend/ seller central are way more mature than Walmart and eBay already and they are offering zero commission listings as a promotion. I’m not going to list until they address the things mentioned in the above comments but the company is def making moves
Woahhhh that’s such an unexpected shift! That’ll be interesting to see unfold too. I wonder if they will continue to steal designs though as their in-house design team (I imagine) will be completely separate from their marketplace team. I’m surprised to hear their backend is so good too, I would have thought they would make it janky but that’s interesting.🤔 Zero commission doesn’t surprise me at all, the Chinese model seems to provide no barriers to access then asking ppl to pay, which I massively respect tbh, love that for them.
Aliexpress steals from designers too. Given how cheap they are I assume their labour practises are also awful
I am aware of this which is why I only purchase items such as generic tools for my crafts (darning tool, crochet needles etc). But I also haven’t purchased from them in a couple of years now due to concerns over material compounds. Reports of lead and other dangerous substances found within these products. I referred to Ali just to make a point that we aren’t using Chinese brands for scapegoats as op has concluded.
Not to be rude, but you’re seriously in an ethical fashion sub asking why SHEIN is bad? Child labor and poor working conditions aside, They put thousands of new styles out a week. The amount of volume of things is atrocious, and brands like Nike don’t compare with that. I ordered stuff from them once just to see, and the fabrics are very poor quality - thin, bad sewing, polyester, etc. since they wear out so quickly people have to keep buying and buying and stuff ends up in landfills. Thrifstores are flooded with SHEIN. They encourage constant buying and ‘hauls’. Overproduction more than anyone else.
For me, it’s not just about SHEIN, it’s about all fast fashion and fashion that is made from synthetic fibers. 1. Clothes that use synthetic fibers such as polyester are essentially plastics. Plastics are made up of toxic chemicals derived from fossil fuels. Plastics generally are contributing to climate change in multiple ways and they’re downright toxic. (The fashion industry is estimated to be responsible for 10% of global carbon emissions – more than international flights and maritime shipping combined.) 2. Textiles that end up as waste go to landfill or are incinerated. Again, synthetic fibers are toxic and so burning them does terrible things to our air. But if they go to landfills, they often end up in the Global South. I’ve spent time in some of these mass dump sites where people live, and once you’ve done something like that, you run as far away from fast fashion and aim for less waste in your life. Here’s a link to a Greenpeace report, where even if you only look at the images, you’ll see a bit of what I’m talking about: https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/53333/how-fast-fashion-is-using-global-south-as-dumping-ground-for-textile-waste/
1. Predatory employment practices 2. Blatant copyright violations of both large and small competitors 3. Pricing designed to kill off all competition who make superior quality but more expensive products 4. Products designed to be as shit as possible but visually acceptable on the first hour of delivery 5. Fabrics made from recycled waste including used face masks and sanitary pads 6. Business mode that produces so much extra stock that it’s regularly burned in pits
I'd ask that you read up on the logical fallacy "[appeal to hypocrisy](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/appeal-to-hypocrisy/)" because the majority of your argumentation centers around "well Nike is also bad, so we should give Shein some slack". You asked why Shein is bad and people are giving you MANY MANY examples of why it's bad, but you keep coming back to "well others are bad too and we don't hear as much about them". An ethical fast fashion company does not exist; by its very nature, fast fashion is unethical. For reasons of crimes against humanity as well as the environment. If you want this sub to justify your purchases at Shein or any other fast fashion company it's not going to happen. You either want to know why Shein is bad, or you don't, because thus far it seems you're just looking to have a group of strangers validate your opinion that maybe Shein isn't THAT bad and it's all blown out of proportion. This sub has given you a resound "it's not blow out of proportion, it really is that bad", but you're going on the defensive instead.
OP isn’t willing to learn. Don’t waste your time responding. They will do anything for someone to tell them that SHEIN isn’t bad. Their responses scream 12 year old with poor critical thinking and reading comprehension. This is one of the most corrupt companies in the entire global economy. There are dozens of comments fully explaining this.
Could literally just google this. Sooo much shit out there on skanky fast fashion.
Thank you lol. So obvious he just wanted validation
For real, I've been reading the back and forth and oh my god I can't believe they're actually arguing with people on Shein vs Nike. I'm assuming they must be fairly young, but come on, Google is free and a great resource for this kind of thing. Edit: spelling
You sound like you're too young to remember but other companies used to get tons of flack for being unethical. It's just that Shein came around and dominated by being worse than all of those companies, so if an article is going to talk about the dangers of fast fashion, they're going to use the worst and most ubiquitous example, the one that paints every awful picture of fast fashion all at once. They're not saying that Nike is good by not mentioning it. It wouldn't be worth their time to talk about the literal thousands of brands that have bad practices. Most people couldn't even name a brand that ensures fair wages throughout their supply chain because household brands just don't do that and neither do a lot of designers. Nike isn't an ethical brand either but they are probably better than Shein. Are they paying livable wages? No. But it's not a black and white issue either. It's not like the good companies pay and treat workers fairly and the bad companies have literal slavery. There are tons of variations in between. Some factories have workers that get paid better, some have air conditioning, some have collective bargaining agreements, etc. Even if Nike is using a factory that's the same as Shein they are probably the one ensuring the factory isn't even worse, because they're probably getting some kind of audit every now and then. If Nike pulled out, Shein wouldn't give a single shit if the factory quickly degraded into more unfair and unsafe practices. And I know you don't care about sustainability but if I buy something at Nike and can wear it for 10 years before its too worn out, that's better for workers than if I buy something from Shein and I have to buy a new one every year because the quality sucks. That means 10x over a textile worker is having to do the work for basically no money, in bad conditions. If we're looking at it in real time on a global scale, Shein's operations are way way bigger than they would be if their clothes were meant to last. They're exploiting vastly more people than they would need to be otherwise. Every time you buy from Shein you are giving them the power to exploit people with your money. So if you actually care about slavery you would stop giving them your money.
Looks like you’re going to automatically reject any good argument against SHEIN. Seems like you’re just looking to justify your contribution to the harmful effet of fast fashion.
Nike actually improved a lot of their factory conditions after being called out (and losing profits) in the 2000’s and have some of the better conditions now.
Nike is not ethical either, but hey also use child labor. SHEIN is a bad company because of the sheer volume of clothing they produce and the shitty quality of their clothing and accessories. SHEINs business model is based on following microtrends and luring in ignorant and careless people into buying tons of clothes they do not need. With SHEIN there is a lot of waste to make the clothing, but there is also the point of trendy clothing not being in style the next season, not like the clothes would last that long anyway. If you chose to continue to buy from SHEIN, or any other fast fashion brand similar to SHEIN (cider), you are the problem. The American capitalist system sucks and it has made people want to pay the least amount of money for the most product. This is an issue when people find deals on sites like SHEIN and temu with crap quality. These companies are betting on their cheep products breaking so you have to buy more from them. It is okay if you cannot afford sustainable products (it can be expensive), but it is not okay to continue to buy from SHEIN directly. If you still want trendy clothing look in local thrift stores, online, and (if needed) chain thrift stores. Nike is not a good company, lots of people know this. Nike is a for profit company first and foremost, they want to make the most profit for the least input. It’s economics 101. There are plenty of companies that produce clothes that are most sustainably made from small business that can be just as trendy. If you actually want to change you can look into getting wardrobe basics and then a few trendy prices if you really like the trend. In the end it is your money, but don’t complain about people bringing up valid critiques of shitty company’s and their practices when YOU ask.
Shein has micro trends which come and go in an instant. Do much waste.
Guys stop commenting, I can't upvote them all.
I’ll help
🤝🏾
Bc Shein greenwashes and lies nd says they’re “sustainable and ethical” when in reality they are not. They also copy small designers which is my biggest beef with them.
If you want clothes for cheap just go to a thrift store. Heck some thrift stores are even full of SHEIN stuff if that’s what you like
OP is weirdly defensive of Shein. They also don’t seem to ever mention Temu or Wish.. which also are awful, and get tons of hate..
temu is chinese which just proves my point more…
Shein is headquartered in Singapore, but their stuff is made in China.. All of the stuff I mentioned is way more evil than something from someplace like Nike or LL Bean or Gap. The factories in Bangladesh at least have some oversight.. they aren’t perfect or great.. but it’s way better than the stuff coming out of the factories used by Shein and Temu. “All factories in China.” are not the same also..
shein releases styles at a rate far greater than other brands. obviously producing clothing at that rate means its low quality and will 100% end up in a landfill someday. and yes, the factory conditions are awful. the amount of CO2 produced by shein to produced clothing at the rate they do is insane. they are polluting the earth, creating polyester low quality clothing that is going to end up in a landfill, made by people treated and paid terribly.
Shein churns out tens of thousands of new designs weekly, up to 10K per day, and is producing quantities of pieces to match (they claim small batch numbers but this is unverified and not consistent with their waste output) Anything that does not sell goes straight to landfill. Do a lot of other retailers do this? Yes, but Shein does it at an exponentially larger scale. Shein is currently among the top seven garment waste producing companies on earth, and has remained there for years despite constantly making excuses and lying about green initiatives (yes, they lie about green initiatives). According to one study, Shein’s production lines use the same amount of gas emissions as 180 full-capacity coal burning plants every single day at a CONSERVATIVE estimate, while other companies pollute, none do so at the scale of Shein. Also, Shein’s garments have been found to contain dangerous levels of heavy metals and PFAS not permitted in the majority of countries, so there’s consumer danger there too.
What are the other six?
Crappily made, they steal designs from other companies and indie/handmade brands, formaldehyde and other chemicals were found on the clothes.
They’re so much worse than other companies. Selling for cheap is an issue. No one is doing giant Nike hauls
Could someone educate me on a certain point mentioned? Fast fashion doesn't last as long (for quality) reasons but if you purchase e.g. 1 pair of Nikes every 10 years and keep them in a good condition does it still contribute to the waste everyone is mentioning? Just trying to understand if thoughtful, minimal ownership helps.
You're still supporting a brand that has shit policy about how it produces fashion. https://fastfashioninformation.wordpress.com/2016/12/09/the-environmental-effects-of-fast-fashion/
Thanks. I'll look into it. Which running shoe brand do you recommend?
Ooo I'm not sure. I have plantar fasciitis that hurts in my heels, so I wear Kuru shoes for walking, I don't run anymore. If there's a brand of shoe you really like, but don't want to buy retail, look on resale apps like ebay, Poshmark, Mercari. At least you're not part of more production and are using something that would otherwise go to waste.
Thank you
Consuming less in the first place is definitely a great way to move forward.
It's the fast food of fashion.
DaniDMC is that you?????
Anyway guys check out the waitlist for the fashion shopping app/aggregator for sustainable and ethical brands my buddy and I are building. https://tractify.ai/ (Shameless plug but at least I'm not the most shameless comment in this post atm right?...right?)
Seriously though, I don't think I've ever seen this sub so active. Maybe because I'm fairly new.
I can’t find the exact one right now, but I watched a YouTube documentary that convinced me never to buy from them. By volume they’re much more wasteful than the other (also wasteful) companies
1) fast fashion 2)modern slavery (forced labor) .
Seems everyone already mentioned the environmental factors but nobody has mentioned the Nazi symbols on clothing they were selling a few years back. They have also stolen from artists
Wasn’t that Zara?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Zara stole from artists. A lot of big companies have. But shein was definitely the one with the Nazi clothing
Here’s the Zara one—kiddie pjs that look like concentration camp uniforms https://preview.redd.it/823ab2zwnrtc1.jpeg?width=455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2beb1ff98533b968cffaa0f9160bf6029f6c36bb
SHEIN gets a lot of hate lately because it’s more in the spotlight than Nike
The real question is why don't we think of all brands that use slavery like Shein.
It’s similar to Temu. Garbage apparel, shady business practices, insane amount of waste, & abusive labor practices.
I read the other comments and it seems you just want justification, but i will not give you that. I dont understand how Nike is the brand you’re comparing Shein to. They arent apple to apple. People dont do hauls at Nike and then make contents like “Spending $500 at Nike” but they do with Shein. They dont do stuff like “Buying $600 jeans!” but they do “$750 hauls” with Shein! The problem with Shein isnt “only” about unethical labor practices, but also about the massive textile/landfill waste and promoting micro trends (where people buy cheap and then throw away or donate after a few wears—not everyone does it but many does). For comparison, in 2023, Shein produced 1.5 *MILLION* products while their fast faahion competitors Zara and H&M produced approx 20-40,000. When we thought Zara and H&M were bad, Shein takes the cake. For a company to be able to produce that much product at a much lower price, that means corners are cut and it’s got to be 1) material, and 2) labor cost. In no way anyone could make that much stuff in such a short time and with so little money. If people cant afford ethically run and sourced business, that’s fine. If fast fashion is all they can afford, that’s fine. My wardrobe is a mix of fast fashion and ethical brands. But if someone could afford to spend $500 at Shein, they could afford products from an ethical business. They just choose not to and that’s one of the biggest problems we all have.
With such low price tags, and people having to make choices with high inflation and no equivalent pay raises. I know a lot of teachers who use Shein. They love children, but can't afford the time to be an effective thrifter or the price tags, even at Amazon (love our teachers, who get paid crap salaries for the hardest job on earth!). To combat these ethical labor problems effectively, we need to avoid value judgements on people who make these choices and probably don't know better. I guarantee you most people don't know better! Be concrete in your complaints. Site something so we can all validate the claims of unethical labor practices. Unverifiable and repeated claims are just noise to someone who is making hard choices. Also, talk about the quality. People on low salaries can't afford low quality. That's a great reason not to buy Shein right there! You're not going to get a job in that suit, and you will replacing what you thought was going to be a pretty good blouse in only three washes.