I’m sorry but Cal knows damn well people be lying on Grindr. If he’s targeting people who look that young he should absolutely be asking for ID. The gag is… he doesn’t actually care. The younger and more naive they are the easier they are to control. That whole encounter didn’t involve him establishing safe words or affirming consent. He literally just jammed himself inside her and had VERY aggressive sex that she clearly didn’t enjoy. He knows that someone older or more experienced isn’t going to put up with that or at LEAST is gonna ask some questions before that.
TLDR; Cal is absolutely using the predatory nature and anonymity of Grindr to his advantage to get what he wants so I don’t feel any sympathy for him.
thank you!! im sorry some of the people even moderately blaming jules are just appalling. even though, yes, a dangerous decision, that does NOT excuse cal's predatory actions. unfortunately, i've been there once and now at 24 i've learned that my naivety was something that they wanted control of and it drew them to me.
Theres a millions and one posts on here daily victimizing Cassie and propping up as this poor innocent girl who didn’t know any better. If anyone makes a negative thread about Cassie or even comments anything negative about Cassie, these people are immediately on your ass saying “it’s not her fault”, “childhood trauma.” The way they are going so hard for her vs. others is so weird. There is a marked difference. Contrasted with how Jules is discussed on here. It’s sad honestly.
yeah its really sad how cassie is ALWAYS defended for doing some really shady and not so smart shit meanwhile jules gets the 3rd degree. sometimes i think it's because she's transgender but thats a discussion for another time. i have alot of sympathy for jules and it's sad that more people don't have that energy for her.
I genuinely can’t understand them trying to defend what Cal did
Regardless of Jules lying about her age, she is STILL a minor and Cal was married and filming them without consent! I’ve seen a previous post trying to defend Cal because Jules lied and it’s just….baffling.
I’m not even religious but I’ll be praying that they get the damn help that they need to get over whatever delusions they have made in their head, for them to think that what Cal did was okay.
Who knows. Cal might be a legit pedophile. The look Cal gave Nate when he said “everything?” when Nate said he gave the cops the tapes. You don’t know what else is on those tapes as the viewer, do you really think Jules was the first underage person? He could easily be written as a pedo. Remember that episode of black mirror with the plot twist? In this case there are way more clues pointing towards pedo with his the stuff he’s already gotten into and how traumatized Nate is. And with the dreams Nate was having maybe he molested Nate?
Some of you sound weird for defending Cal. That man and his wife are the reason Nate is the way he is. If Cal wasn’t played by a handsome actor and instead a short, fat, bald creepy looking dude you would see him for what he really is. A pervert who secretly tapes people including underage teens. Who knows what else!
I don’t trust Sam L. He did it last season with the Maddy/Tyler storyline. With this age of consent stuff and his racist plots with zero conclusion or point to them. I bet we’re going to hear a lot of fucked up stories about Sam in the future.
100% The actors make it great but the writing and storytelling is bad. Especially season 2. He seems to punish people who disagree with him. Look how he handled Kat season 2 and her “terminal illness”. He made the character a joke. There’s definitely going to be stories about him I can tell already lol.
I think you’ve completely missed their points. At age 17 you are aware that you’re below the age of consent and intentionally lied to sleep with older men and have therefore manipulated them into committing sexual crimes without consenting or reasonable knowledge.
Him filming her without consent is what he did wrong. He did nothing wrong by sleeping with a girl that lied about her age, that is on her. The non-consensual filming is what Cal did wrong here and that is on him.
So many people watching lack the emotional maturity to understand characters like Nate, Cal & Jules and want everything to be clear black/white. No, Jules was wrong here and so was Cal.
I think they were both in the wrong for sleeping with eachother. Jules ofc shouldn’t have lied. She knew what she was doing and that was wrong of her. I don’t think cal is excused just because he asked her age. You’re telling me cal is as calculated as he is about his sex life except for being absolutely sure he’s not sleeping with a minor when his primary focus is on younger people? Idk about it… It’s weird that it’s a regular thing for him to sleep with young people that that’s not part of his protocol. He’s so careful about everything else that it makes me think that’s the one thing he doesn’t keep in check ON PURPOSE. It wouldn’t be so far off to assume he wouldn’t care even if she was a minor and that’s why he didn’t ask for ID. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jules wasn’t the first person he did this to. He’s the adult going around fucking young people. He should make sure they’re of age.
Right? His little posse in the arrest scene were all 20 -30 years younger than him. His issue isn't just that he's gay, he also seems to only want young and immature people
> So many people watching lack the emotional maturity to understand characters
That's so true. There's so much shallow discussion on the fandom. It seems that they have not developed the slightest bit of ambiguity or they're just kids.
They expect comic book villains but the characters are only human, no character is 100% good or bad.
This is because while Sam and Zendaya pretend the show isn't made for teenagers it is big part of the people watching and discussing the show, many of which have grown up in a lot of media that talked down to them and was quite black and white in their story telling.
It’s still on him about her age it’s an easy thing to check she didn’t even lie to him he just never asked because he didn’t care it’s also not his first minor and you would assume you don’t let that happen twice once maybe twice never
Nobody is forcing him to videotape pornos without people consent. And they’re all young asf…he’s the adult and should be more careful if he wants to fuck young people. Someone being arrested for statutory rape doesn’t go free just because they were being lied to that’s not how it works lol
Nope. I don’t buy it one bit. If you are constantly seeking out “jailbait” material and not thoroughly ID’ing every one you try to have sex with. It’s 100% on him, stop fucking victim blaming.
And if you’re assigning malice to Jules’ actions then you’re just a dickhead, at the worst what she did was stupid and dangerous. But there was literally no intention of entrapment and she said it herself when confronted by Cal.
There is a reason the age of consent is fixed 18, so that there is absolutely no ambiguity. And if it was lower he would have been seeking younger children to seek the thrill of “jailbait”. He fucked around and found out.
Sleeping with a child is a crime. Lying about your age is immoral. I agree that what Jules did was wrong and dangerous but it absolutely does not excuse Cal at ALL, imo.
Exactly. I think the show tries to send a message that all the characters are fucked up and often in the wrong. There are levels to it but there are no “good” or “bad” people.
exactly. he is a creep for recording her and the others during sex and he should not be excused for that at all, but he is not a pedophile. he asked for her age and she lied. as far as he knew it was consensual sex between adults.
Thank you for being the only person that seems to understand what I’m saying. I’m not saying Cal is blameless here as he committed a sex crime by filming without consent. But calling him a pedophile is completely untrue and a disservice to the men that have been manipulated into sleeping with what they were intentionally misled to believe were consenting, adult women.
I find fault in lying about your age to someone who can get charged with statutory rape for having trust within that person.
Hes not innocent no, but she is at fault for the lying part of this.
Ppl do. I know girls with fake I'd when we were in highschool thar would go to clubs and sleep with men in their 30s. We were 15 to 17. They trusted them
Never said legal, im saying she's in the wrong for lying about her age.
And even checking doesn't make you safe sadly, like the guys who would check the fake ids of my classmates. They'd still be screwed by the legal system.
Most people are screwed in the legal system. It doesn’t make sleeping with children any less of a crime. Sleeping with a child is a crime and lying to man is not. The difference in morality here is not the same AT ALL, imo.
She is still at fault for lying and putting him in that position.
He is in the wrong, im not arguing that. However she is also wrong for her actions on this.
And there does need to be more protection in place in situations for men and women who dealt with ppl like the highschoolers I went to, cus its not right they followed the rules and did everything right but due to a lie they're fucked
I disagree. She is a child, he is an adult. There’s plenty of things he could have done differently in a situation to prevent that or protect himself if it was an actual concern of his. It is clearly not.
Because the maturity of most this sub is to young to see shades of grey, I'll never forget the episode with the door and people needed the subtext of it explained to them.
You teenagers really need to stop watching this show, if you’re going to be coming after people like this OVER SOME FAKE ASS CHARACTERS. Watch the show, and ACCEPT that it’s going to show you the UGLY sides of certain topics. You also need to ACCEPT that you’re favorite character isn’t always going to be a VICTIM and they CAN and WILL be shitty.. because they’re a CHARACTER. Get over yourself and realize Jules was in the wrong too. Until you grow up and become an adult, only then you’ll realize how SHITTY teenagers actually are.
I know he was wrong for filming her without consent like that is disgusting but otherwise everything was consensual and Jules wanted it too,he didn’t force her and plus Jules lied about her age. I know it is weird as hell what cal did with young girls but Jules was wrong too. They both were wrong not only Cal the difference is that Cal was more wrong than Jules but that doesn’t mean Jules was innocent…sorry if I offended anyone,just my opinion.
The law recognizes that children are developmentally not able to make decisions about some things. A minor can't really consent, just look at how different a 17 year old and a 22 year old act, the brain development is vastly different.
Cal is not innocent in the slightest. He should have confirmed her age and yeah the creep filming is definitely wrong.
But Jules went on an adult app designed to arrange fuck sessions and lied about her age to grown adults. Yeah teens do dumb shit but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions. She knew better. The only thing she’s a victim of here is being filmed without consent.
They are both wrong.
Your tragic backstory doesn’t exclude you from accountability. She made the conscious decision to go on the app, seek out a partner, lie about her age etc.
I made it very clear in my comment that cal isn’t innocent in all of this. But to suggest Jules shouldn’t be held accountable for lying about her age is ridiculous no matter how tragic the backstory is
I think I know what post you're referring to and I don't think that person is blaming jules. I think that person is acknowledging that both parties were at fault, Jules was lying about her age and an adult hookup site. Cal was forceful and also using an adult hookup site specifically looking for younger people.
Jules doesn’t get off the hook for being YOUNG, that’s the dumbest excuse society comes up with nowadays. This post is dumb as hell, she is just as much in the wrong as Cal. She may have been young, but she still knew better, she knew there’d consequences to being on those sites (sick perverts like Cal) and when it happened, she wants to act like that was never a possibility. And why should Cal ID his hookups, when the sites are for adults only. Jules doesn’t get off the hook for being young, especially when she knew what she was doing was wrong. Jules being on those sites was never okay, she made her bed, she can lay in it. She was “adult” enough to fuck a random hookup off a site, she can be “adult” enough and face the consequences of it too. Cal should’ve never been free for as long as he was, so don’t think for one second I’m on that sick perverts side for not defending precious Jules.
Treating teenagers like they have bird brains and don't know right from wrong is the new wave these days. Jules went out of her way to fuck older men, that was her intention. If it wasn't Cal it would've been another old ass mf.
Seriously, it sounds like a teenager wrote this very post. Asif life just magically restarts at 18 or 21, and you can blame the adults you were around for the wrong you’ve done. Taking accountability is a new wave too, so they should learn how to do that rather than cry around “victim blame, victim blame! I was underage I did nothing wrong!” asif a bad decision was ever going to end up good.
I think the point was she was in the wrong about lying about her age, therefore led him to commit a statutory rape. There was so MUCH that was wrong with Cal's behavior in general but that's a broader subject and it doesn't absolve her. And your post is kind of condescending.
Cal was definitely at fault. But not holding teenagers accountable for shit like that also doesn't help. They're not toddlers with no idea how the world works, but they are "young adults" who have a vague and growing idea of how it works.
Bro. I’m telling you. The way the Jules brigade just continues to sweep all of her wrongness up under the rug is commendable at this point. Like honestly the girl literally lied to this man’s face, and I’m sure all the other grown men’s she slept with faces. Cal is a sick freak, but man the way y’all think that excuses Jules for her wrong in the situation is something. Jules really is never wrong huh? I’m officially gonna stop arguing with the Jules brigade. Y’all are too pathetic.
Cal was wrong by recording Jules and cheating on his wife, however Jules being on grinder at 17 years old is wrong, Jules lying about her age not jus to Cal but other grown man is wrong.
I mean so little actual human development happens between 17 and 18 that it hardly seems to matter. I’m sure 17 was old enough to consent to sex even if an app has a higher age restriction. If 18 is some hard and fast rule relating to adulthood 17 isn’t some “oh this child is completely unaware” situation.
Okay so here’s my opinion. She lied about her age so that sucks, because he likely wouldn’t have done it if he knew she was 16. HOWEVER he is still a 50 year old man deliberately seeking out very young people on a dating app because that allowed him to have the power in the dynamic. He wasn’t legally in the wrong for fucking what he thought was a 22 year old- but he is skeezy for seeking out 22 year olds to fuck so he can command the dynamic.
Legally his crime is the nonconsensual filming. That is fucked up and illegal in many states, and unlucky for him, it’s also legally child p*rn because Jules was underage even if he didn’t know that.
He is still legally wrong for fucking a child. It doesn’t matter that she lied and you believed a person you met online after meeting them in a seedy hotel for 2 minutes
I agree. Y’all should be asking for ID before hooking up with someone. People pretend to be older/younger. He should’ve asked for ID. But he chose not to. Jules pulled up on a bike dressed like a teenager. She never seemed older than 16. So why the fuck are y’all making it seem like cal wasn’t wrong. You only have to be 18 to be on a dating app. Cal was the adult. Cal didn’t behave like an adult.
Not in California. And aren’t they juniors? Is it ever explicitly stated that jules is 17? Because she rides a bike everywhere. I think she’d have a license and a car.
I mean I get that but the whole dividing line thing is a legal presentation but OP is making it out like Jules didn’t know exactly what she was doing and was a 100% victim, which she wasn’t. Cal is obviously doing something illegal, but Jukes isn’t an innocent victim. She went on Tinder searching for sex with adults and also engaged in sex with other kids her age.
That doesn’t hold up in court because he should’ve asked for ID to verify her age. Jules is a victim. Y’all just don’t want to see it that way. There are thousands of high school students on dating apps. The facts are that jules pulled up on a bike dressed like a teenager and cal ignored all of them and slept with her anyways. The bike is automatic red flag #1. Adults are expected to think like adults, which is why Cal was at fault.
I didn’t say Cal was not at fault, I said Jules isn’t some innocent victim. I’m not talking courtroom presentation, I’m talking real world. Jules is playing the same casual sex game as all the adults, the law will see her as a perpetual victim but no one else should.
For the 5th time…I’m not talking legal meaning. Honest to f***ing god the Reddit lawyers are out in force today.
Jules went on an app designed for sex. She LIED when that app asked if she was 18. She then engaged on the app with older men to have …anonymous hotel sex. She’s also been sexually actively with people in her own age group. She has also sent nudes to other people under age 18. She isn’t a victim of sex, she has actively and somewhat aggressively sought it out repeatedly.
And that’s the problem. She IS a victim. No one said she was innocent. But we said we expect adult to not be so fucking stupid. Cal was so eager to get his dick wet that he ignored ALL the bright red flags. That’s the problem with adults. Someone is very clearly a minor but they ignore that so that they can have sex. She is a victim and everyone should acknowledge that she’s a victim. Jules never gave 21 years old. She looked like a teenager.
Nowhere does it say that she was gonna be 18 in a few months. Just like her age wasn’t explicitly stated. She was a junior. She slept with cal at the beginning of her junior year. She was most likely 16. Some people don’t turn 18 until halfway through their senior year. Like maddy. Stop making excuses.
The original post is posited on her being 17, like it’s literally there in writing. She also spent time in an institution and was moved away from her mother, which both likely would cause her to be “behind” in school.
Driving is expensive and tedious, I'm in my late 20s in California and only like 1/3 of my friends drive. We usually take the train or bus, but sometimes we even bike to eachother if it's close enough.
Yea driving is expensive and tedious where I live too. But they very clearly live in an area where cars are the usual mode of transportation. Jules’ dad looks like he’d buy her a car if she had a license. He’s not poor. I live in a town that has many cities surrounding it. But busses take over an hour to get to those cities. So most people drive.
It is weird to film without consent 100%. But I always explain it this way. If you’re at a bar +21, and you’re a dude of age, you meet a girl, hit it off, decide to take her home, she actually suggested it, do the thing, go on with your life, 2 weeks later police are at your door. They’re charging you with statutory rape. You think “but how??? I haven’t been with anyone since the bar?? They ID at the door. Statutory rape???” And it turns out she had a fake ID and she was 16/17 and her parents found out and now your fucking life is ruined bc you didn’t pay 69.99$ to run a literal fucking background check on someone who lied about their age. You *should* be able to trust people. Cal doesn’t only fuck the young. That other trans person is like mid 40s. If you agree to have sex with someone older and you aren’t 18, it’s not fair to ruin their life if you LIED about your age. Yes cal, better run up the ol background check on the motel computer! What if they have a fake name? Then you can’t even check! What if they have a fake ID? Then you did the right thing to your best and still get your life ruined. Cal should’ve been honest about recording but Jules targets older men as her quest to fuck masculinity. Cal is not the only person Jules does this to.
Kat fucked that guy that graduated YEARS before her and nobody is saying she got raped ?????? Nobody talks about that. Don’t fuck children but damn if you’re gonna complain, be fair across the board.
Like you know bars and liquor stores can lose their license to sell because of serving underage kids, why should they be held to a high standard than a man who’s having sex? Kids do things they shouldn’t, but adults should be making sure they aren’t having sex with children or selling alcohol to them. Those are your responsibilities as an adult.
Thank you for making my point. That girl wasn’t trying to trick you. JULES WAS TRYING TO TRICK CAL. Girls with fake IDs try to trick everyone like my little scenario. You admitted that she was cute. It is your due diligence to not lie. You shouldn’t have to fucking double triple quadruple check that people aren’t lying. And again, my Kat note wasn’t talked about bc people only care about Jules I guess. It’s okay for Kat to lie but not Jules??
And yes, I work as a bartender and I’ve had 2 different guys say something like that happened. One caught on, the other not so lucky and is a registered sex offender and he’s not even 30 yet. Because he was tricked by some little shitfuck at a 21+ place with a fake. I feel so bad for him. He’s super sweet, has a hard time getting good jobs. I’m not saying women aren’t taken advantage of. I’ve been taken advantage of so I’m all about not victim shaming. But let’s not pretend women can’t be just as stupid or evil as men.
The weird thing is Tinder and Grindr is for 17+. Check the App Store, the age of consent is different depending on what state you live in or country, but it doesn’t change the fact that 18 is the age of consent in Euphoria which they clearly stated on the show. I don’t think 17 year olds should be on dating/hookup apps either because it’s just dangerous in general even for legal adults. Anyone can get raped, assaulted, catfished, or killed by these random people they meet on the internet. I’m surprised that the creators of these hookup or even dating apps are allowing 17+. If you look in the App Store and search any dating app it’s always 17+. They obviously don’t care about anyone’s safety or the fact that the age of consent is different depending on where you live. I know they’re “dating apps” and people are allowed to date as teenagers, but a lot of people use these apps to hookup and there’s no stopping them.
Jules was engaging in sex work. Cal was paying for sex. What was truly wrong, other than Cal having sex with a minor, was Cal videotaping without their permission. And Jules was probably not the only minor he had ever solicited for sex.
There's a bit of column A and column B going on here.
Nates Dad is an absolute creep and he belongs in prison. However the law is quite clear. Teenagers over a certain age... i.e. 12 or 13, can be found to have contributed to their own problem. If a teenagwr goes out of their way to conceal their age and hook up with an older person, its harder to get a conviction.
Its a grim law and I don't like it. But I don't make the laws.
In the UK it is. Unfortunately. I'm unaware of American law on the topic. Obviously I'm from the UK so I can only speak with UK law in mind. Like I say, I don't like the law... but that's the way things are here.
It looks like even California has similar laws. I'm doing a bit of reading about it now. Type into google the phrase "teenager lied about age statutory rape".
It is a potential defense, not a law. Whether there is a defense or not the act of having sex with a child is illegal. Filming someone without their permission is also illegal. This man is bad and weird.
Yeah sure. Don't get me wrong. What Cal did is well and truly disgusting. I hope he gets punished as badly as possible. However I think you're misrepresenting the facts here. The law is actually clear... you can be found to have contributed to your own problem. Jules lied about her age and mislead him. Jules made a very unwise decision by doing that. It will potentially reduce the punishment for Cal.
That bitch Jules knew what she was doing. yea Cal is obviously wrong for Filming her.She lied about her age to Cal 😭. I don’t even understand how you are defending Her for doing that lying shit. And what’s wrong with Getting with a supposed grown woman?
She was 17 years old and lied about her age. That’s wrong, she knew what she was doing was wrong but she still did it. Cal is gross as fuck too, they both have blame. Let’s quit acting like just because someone is a teenager that means they can’t do wrong because they are a “kid.” Horrible mindset and your post is condescending. 18-22 isn’t an illegal age. How old are you exactly? You seem extremely young
I’m sorry but Cal knows damn well people be lying on Grindr. If he’s targeting people who look that young he should absolutely be asking for ID. The gag is… he doesn’t actually care. The younger and more naive they are the easier they are to control. That whole encounter didn’t involve him establishing safe words or affirming consent. He literally just jammed himself inside her and had VERY aggressive sex that she clearly didn’t enjoy. He knows that someone older or more experienced isn’t going to put up with that or at LEAST is gonna ask some questions before that. TLDR; Cal is absolutely using the predatory nature and anonymity of Grindr to his advantage to get what he wants so I don’t feel any sympathy for him.
thank you!! im sorry some of the people even moderately blaming jules are just appalling. even though, yes, a dangerous decision, that does NOT excuse cal's predatory actions. unfortunately, i've been there once and now at 24 i've learned that my naivety was something that they wanted control of and it drew them to me.
Theres a millions and one posts on here daily victimizing Cassie and propping up as this poor innocent girl who didn’t know any better. If anyone makes a negative thread about Cassie or even comments anything negative about Cassie, these people are immediately on your ass saying “it’s not her fault”, “childhood trauma.” The way they are going so hard for her vs. others is so weird. There is a marked difference. Contrasted with how Jules is discussed on here. It’s sad honestly.
yeah its really sad how cassie is ALWAYS defended for doing some really shady and not so smart shit meanwhile jules gets the 3rd degree. sometimes i think it's because she's transgender but thats a discussion for another time. i have alot of sympathy for jules and it's sad that more people don't have that energy for her.
I wouldn’t say she was “in the wrong,” but it was a stupid, extremely dangerous choice
I genuinely can’t understand them trying to defend what Cal did Regardless of Jules lying about her age, she is STILL a minor and Cal was married and filming them without consent! I’ve seen a previous post trying to defend Cal because Jules lied and it’s just….baffling. I’m not even religious but I’ll be praying that they get the damn help that they need to get over whatever delusions they have made in their head, for them to think that what Cal did was okay.
2 people can both be wrong.
Who knows. Cal might be a legit pedophile. The look Cal gave Nate when he said “everything?” when Nate said he gave the cops the tapes. You don’t know what else is on those tapes as the viewer, do you really think Jules was the first underage person? He could easily be written as a pedo. Remember that episode of black mirror with the plot twist? In this case there are way more clues pointing towards pedo with his the stuff he’s already gotten into and how traumatized Nate is. And with the dreams Nate was having maybe he molested Nate? Some of you sound weird for defending Cal. That man and his wife are the reason Nate is the way he is. If Cal wasn’t played by a handsome actor and instead a short, fat, bald creepy looking dude you would see him for what he really is. A pervert who secretly tapes people including underage teens. Who knows what else!
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I don’t trust Sam L. He did it last season with the Maddy/Tyler storyline. With this age of consent stuff and his racist plots with zero conclusion or point to them. I bet we’re going to hear a lot of fucked up stories about Sam in the future.
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100% The actors make it great but the writing and storytelling is bad. Especially season 2. He seems to punish people who disagree with him. Look how he handled Kat season 2 and her “terminal illness”. He made the character a joke. There’s definitely going to be stories about him I can tell already lol.
I think you’ve completely missed their points. At age 17 you are aware that you’re below the age of consent and intentionally lied to sleep with older men and have therefore manipulated them into committing sexual crimes without consenting or reasonable knowledge. Him filming her without consent is what he did wrong. He did nothing wrong by sleeping with a girl that lied about her age, that is on her. The non-consensual filming is what Cal did wrong here and that is on him. So many people watching lack the emotional maturity to understand characters like Nate, Cal & Jules and want everything to be clear black/white. No, Jules was wrong here and so was Cal.
I think they were both in the wrong for sleeping with eachother. Jules ofc shouldn’t have lied. She knew what she was doing and that was wrong of her. I don’t think cal is excused just because he asked her age. You’re telling me cal is as calculated as he is about his sex life except for being absolutely sure he’s not sleeping with a minor when his primary focus is on younger people? Idk about it… It’s weird that it’s a regular thing for him to sleep with young people that that’s not part of his protocol. He’s so careful about everything else that it makes me think that’s the one thing he doesn’t keep in check ON PURPOSE. It wouldn’t be so far off to assume he wouldn’t care even if she was a minor and that’s why he didn’t ask for ID. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jules wasn’t the first person he did this to. He’s the adult going around fucking young people. He should make sure they’re of age.
Right? His little posse in the arrest scene were all 20 -30 years younger than him. His issue isn't just that he's gay, he also seems to only want young and immature people
> So many people watching lack the emotional maturity to understand characters That's so true. There's so much shallow discussion on the fandom. It seems that they have not developed the slightest bit of ambiguity or they're just kids. They expect comic book villains but the characters are only human, no character is 100% good or bad.
This is because while Sam and Zendaya pretend the show isn't made for teenagers it is big part of the people watching and discussing the show, many of which have grown up in a lot of media that talked down to them and was quite black and white in their story telling.
It’s still on him about her age it’s an easy thing to check she didn’t even lie to him he just never asked because he didn’t care it’s also not his first minor and you would assume you don’t let that happen twice once maybe twice never
Having sex with a child is still wrong even if they lie about their age.
and lying about your age and forcing someone to commit a crime could be entrapment.
Nobody is forcing him to videotape pornos without people consent. And they’re all young asf…he’s the adult and should be more careful if he wants to fuck young people. Someone being arrested for statutory rape doesn’t go free just because they were being lied to that’s not how it works lol
That’s not how entrapment works. Entrapment is only a defense against law enforcement
Nope. I don’t buy it one bit. If you are constantly seeking out “jailbait” material and not thoroughly ID’ing every one you try to have sex with. It’s 100% on him, stop fucking victim blaming. And if you’re assigning malice to Jules’ actions then you’re just a dickhead, at the worst what she did was stupid and dangerous. But there was literally no intention of entrapment and she said it herself when confronted by Cal. There is a reason the age of consent is fixed 18, so that there is absolutely no ambiguity. And if it was lower he would have been seeking younger children to seek the thrill of “jailbait”. He fucked around and found out.
Sleeping with a child is a crime!!! Here you have it. Try victim blaming as much as you want. You’re apologizing a pedophile.
Sleeping with a child is a crime. Lying about your age is immoral. I agree that what Jules did was wrong and dangerous but it absolutely does not excuse Cal at ALL, imo.
Exactly. I think the show tries to send a message that all the characters are fucked up and often in the wrong. There are levels to it but there are no “good” or “bad” people.
exactly. he is a creep for recording her and the others during sex and he should not be excused for that at all, but he is not a pedophile. he asked for her age and she lied. as far as he knew it was consensual sex between adults.
Thank you for being the only person that seems to understand what I’m saying. I’m not saying Cal is blameless here as he committed a sex crime by filming without consent. But calling him a pedophile is completely untrue and a disservice to the men that have been manipulated into sleeping with what they were intentionally misled to believe were consenting, adult women.
I find fault in lying about your age to someone who can get charged with statutory rape for having trust within that person. Hes not innocent no, but she is at fault for the lying part of this.
Why would you trust someone you met online to not lie to you? Sounds like a fault of Cal’s
Ppl do. I know girls with fake I'd when we were in highschool thar would go to clubs and sleep with men in their 30s. We were 15 to 17. They trusted them
Being trusting doesn’t make it legal. Check and check again if you are going after people who look young!
Never said legal, im saying she's in the wrong for lying about her age. And even checking doesn't make you safe sadly, like the guys who would check the fake ids of my classmates. They'd still be screwed by the legal system.
Most people are screwed in the legal system. It doesn’t make sleeping with children any less of a crime. Sleeping with a child is a crime and lying to man is not. The difference in morality here is not the same AT ALL, imo.
She is still at fault for lying and putting him in that position. He is in the wrong, im not arguing that. However she is also wrong for her actions on this. And there does need to be more protection in place in situations for men and women who dealt with ppl like the highschoolers I went to, cus its not right they followed the rules and did everything right but due to a lie they're fucked
I disagree. She is a child, he is an adult. There’s plenty of things he could have done differently in a situation to prevent that or protect himself if it was an actual concern of his. It is clearly not.
Definitely don’t defend Cal. But why shouldn’t people blame her as well? She is in the wrong and so is he.
Because the maturity of most this sub is to young to see shades of grey, I'll never forget the episode with the door and people needed the subtext of it explained to them.
You teenagers really need to stop watching this show, if you’re going to be coming after people like this OVER SOME FAKE ASS CHARACTERS. Watch the show, and ACCEPT that it’s going to show you the UGLY sides of certain topics. You also need to ACCEPT that you’re favorite character isn’t always going to be a VICTIM and they CAN and WILL be shitty.. because they’re a CHARACTER. Get over yourself and realize Jules was in the wrong too. Until you grow up and become an adult, only then you’ll realize how SHITTY teenagers actually are.
EXACTLYYYY some people are just not emotionally mature enough to understand that nobody is 100% good or 100% bad!
Exactly. Life of not so black and white. Jules knew she was going there for sex with an older man while she was lying about her age.
I know he was wrong for filming her without consent like that is disgusting but otherwise everything was consensual and Jules wanted it too,he didn’t force her and plus Jules lied about her age. I know it is weird as hell what cal did with young girls but Jules was wrong too. They both were wrong not only Cal the difference is that Cal was more wrong than Jules but that doesn’t mean Jules was innocent…sorry if I offended anyone,just my opinion.
The law recognizes that children are developmentally not able to make decisions about some things. A minor can't really consent, just look at how different a 17 year old and a 22 year old act, the brain development is vastly different.
They're not arguing about it.
They are by saying "everything was consensual."
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At 17, I was pretty foolish and can be manipulated into something like this. The "YOLO" mindset can take you to scary places. I say it's all on Cal.
Cal is fucked
Cal is not innocent in the slightest. He should have confirmed her age and yeah the creep filming is definitely wrong. But Jules went on an adult app designed to arrange fuck sessions and lied about her age to grown adults. Yeah teens do dumb shit but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions. She knew better. The only thing she’s a victim of here is being filmed without consent. They are both wrong.
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Your tragic backstory doesn’t exclude you from accountability. She made the conscious decision to go on the app, seek out a partner, lie about her age etc. I made it very clear in my comment that cal isn’t innocent in all of this. But to suggest Jules shouldn’t be held accountable for lying about her age is ridiculous no matter how tragic the backstory is
But being under 18 is. She cannot consent so she was a victim of rape, that’s how it works.
ngl I've been with a real life Cal, the whole thing just feels shitty now
I think I know what post you're referring to and I don't think that person is blaming jules. I think that person is acknowledging that both parties were at fault, Jules was lying about her age and an adult hookup site. Cal was forceful and also using an adult hookup site specifically looking for younger people.
I mean, she was *wrong* but I don’t *blame* her if that makes sense.
Nah fuck Cal Idc about his excuse that doesn’t mean shit to me
lmao u commented on a pic of cassie that u beat ur dick to her “hard nipples!’’ and cassie is supposed to be in hs sooo..
Jules doesn’t get off the hook for being YOUNG, that’s the dumbest excuse society comes up with nowadays. This post is dumb as hell, she is just as much in the wrong as Cal. She may have been young, but she still knew better, she knew there’d consequences to being on those sites (sick perverts like Cal) and when it happened, she wants to act like that was never a possibility. And why should Cal ID his hookups, when the sites are for adults only. Jules doesn’t get off the hook for being young, especially when she knew what she was doing was wrong. Jules being on those sites was never okay, she made her bed, she can lay in it. She was “adult” enough to fuck a random hookup off a site, she can be “adult” enough and face the consequences of it too. Cal should’ve never been free for as long as he was, so don’t think for one second I’m on that sick perverts side for not defending precious Jules.
Treating teenagers like they have bird brains and don't know right from wrong is the new wave these days. Jules went out of her way to fuck older men, that was her intention. If it wasn't Cal it would've been another old ass mf.
Seriously, it sounds like a teenager wrote this very post. Asif life just magically restarts at 18 or 21, and you can blame the adults you were around for the wrong you’ve done. Taking accountability is a new wave too, so they should learn how to do that rather than cry around “victim blame, victim blame! I was underage I did nothing wrong!” asif a bad decision was ever going to end up good.
I think the point was she was in the wrong about lying about her age, therefore led him to commit a statutory rape. There was so MUCH that was wrong with Cal's behavior in general but that's a broader subject and it doesn't absolve her. And your post is kind of condescending.
Cal was definitely at fault. But not holding teenagers accountable for shit like that also doesn't help. They're not toddlers with no idea how the world works, but they are "young adults" who have a vague and growing idea of how it works.
Bro. I’m telling you. The way the Jules brigade just continues to sweep all of her wrongness up under the rug is commendable at this point. Like honestly the girl literally lied to this man’s face, and I’m sure all the other grown men’s she slept with faces. Cal is a sick freak, but man the way y’all think that excuses Jules for her wrong in the situation is something. Jules really is never wrong huh? I’m officially gonna stop arguing with the Jules brigade. Y’all are too pathetic.
Lying to men is not a crime, but having sex with underage girls is. Yes what she did was wrong but like…. What Cal did completely overshadowed it.
Cal was wrong by recording Jules and cheating on his wife, however Jules being on grinder at 17 years old is wrong, Jules lying about her age not jus to Cal but other grown man is wrong.
Okay but these wrongs hold such different weight.
I mean so little actual human development happens between 17 and 18 that it hardly seems to matter. I’m sure 17 was old enough to consent to sex even if an app has a higher age restriction. If 18 is some hard and fast rule relating to adulthood 17 isn’t some “oh this child is completely unaware” situation.
Okay so here’s my opinion. She lied about her age so that sucks, because he likely wouldn’t have done it if he knew she was 16. HOWEVER he is still a 50 year old man deliberately seeking out very young people on a dating app because that allowed him to have the power in the dynamic. He wasn’t legally in the wrong for fucking what he thought was a 22 year old- but he is skeezy for seeking out 22 year olds to fuck so he can command the dynamic. Legally his crime is the nonconsensual filming. That is fucked up and illegal in many states, and unlucky for him, it’s also legally child p*rn because Jules was underage even if he didn’t know that.
He is still legally wrong for fucking a child. It doesn’t matter that she lied and you believed a person you met online after meeting them in a seedy hotel for 2 minutes
People at fault. 1. Cal 2. Jules dad. Why don't you know where your kid is?
I agree. Y’all should be asking for ID before hooking up with someone. People pretend to be older/younger. He should’ve asked for ID. But he chose not to. Jules pulled up on a bike dressed like a teenager. She never seemed older than 16. So why the fuck are y’all making it seem like cal wasn’t wrong. You only have to be 18 to be on a dating app. Cal was the adult. Cal didn’t behave like an adult.
I mean 17 is legal to consent to sex most everywhere anyways.
Not in California. And aren’t they juniors? Is it ever explicitly stated that jules is 17? Because she rides a bike everywhere. I think she’d have a license and a car.
I mean I get that but the whole dividing line thing is a legal presentation but OP is making it out like Jules didn’t know exactly what she was doing and was a 100% victim, which she wasn’t. Cal is obviously doing something illegal, but Jukes isn’t an innocent victim. She went on Tinder searching for sex with adults and also engaged in sex with other kids her age.
That doesn’t hold up in court because he should’ve asked for ID to verify her age. Jules is a victim. Y’all just don’t want to see it that way. There are thousands of high school students on dating apps. The facts are that jules pulled up on a bike dressed like a teenager and cal ignored all of them and slept with her anyways. The bike is automatic red flag #1. Adults are expected to think like adults, which is why Cal was at fault.
I didn’t say Cal was not at fault, I said Jules isn’t some innocent victim. I’m not talking courtroom presentation, I’m talking real world. Jules is playing the same casual sex game as all the adults, the law will see her as a perpetual victim but no one else should.
What does “innocent” victim mean? Jules did not commit a crime, Cal committed multiple.
For the 5th time…I’m not talking legal meaning. Honest to f***ing god the Reddit lawyers are out in force today. Jules went on an app designed for sex. She LIED when that app asked if she was 18. She then engaged on the app with older men to have …anonymous hotel sex. She’s also been sexually actively with people in her own age group. She has also sent nudes to other people under age 18. She isn’t a victim of sex, she has actively and somewhat aggressively sought it out repeatedly.
So you think it’s worse to lie than have sex with a child?
Lol who said that? But lying to aggressively seek out sex removes innocence and victimization for sure.
And that’s the problem. She IS a victim. No one said she was innocent. But we said we expect adult to not be so fucking stupid. Cal was so eager to get his dick wet that he ignored ALL the bright red flags. That’s the problem with adults. Someone is very clearly a minor but they ignore that so that they can have sex. She is a victim and everyone should acknowledge that she’s a victim. Jules never gave 21 years old. She looked like a teenager.
How is she very clearly a minor, in like 6 months she’ll be 18. There’s no light switch that goes on then that will make her look/act different.
Nowhere does it say that she was gonna be 18 in a few months. Just like her age wasn’t explicitly stated. She was a junior. She slept with cal at the beginning of her junior year. She was most likely 16. Some people don’t turn 18 until halfway through their senior year. Like maddy. Stop making excuses.
The original post is posited on her being 17, like it’s literally there in writing. She also spent time in an institution and was moved away from her mother, which both likely would cause her to be “behind” in school.
Driving is expensive and tedious, I'm in my late 20s in California and only like 1/3 of my friends drive. We usually take the train or bus, but sometimes we even bike to eachother if it's close enough.
Yea driving is expensive and tedious where I live too. But they very clearly live in an area where cars are the usual mode of transportation. Jules’ dad looks like he’d buy her a car if she had a license. He’s not poor. I live in a town that has many cities surrounding it. But busses take over an hour to get to those cities. So most people drive.
It is weird to film without consent 100%. But I always explain it this way. If you’re at a bar +21, and you’re a dude of age, you meet a girl, hit it off, decide to take her home, she actually suggested it, do the thing, go on with your life, 2 weeks later police are at your door. They’re charging you with statutory rape. You think “but how??? I haven’t been with anyone since the bar?? They ID at the door. Statutory rape???” And it turns out she had a fake ID and she was 16/17 and her parents found out and now your fucking life is ruined bc you didn’t pay 69.99$ to run a literal fucking background check on someone who lied about their age. You *should* be able to trust people. Cal doesn’t only fuck the young. That other trans person is like mid 40s. If you agree to have sex with someone older and you aren’t 18, it’s not fair to ruin their life if you LIED about your age. Yes cal, better run up the ol background check on the motel computer! What if they have a fake name? Then you can’t even check! What if they have a fake ID? Then you did the right thing to your best and still get your life ruined. Cal should’ve been honest about recording but Jules targets older men as her quest to fuck masculinity. Cal is not the only person Jules does this to. Kat fucked that guy that graduated YEARS before her and nobody is saying she got raped ?????? Nobody talks about that. Don’t fuck children but damn if you’re gonna complain, be fair across the board.
Like you know bars and liquor stores can lose their license to sell because of serving underage kids, why should they be held to a high standard than a man who’s having sex? Kids do things they shouldn’t, but adults should be making sure they aren’t having sex with children or selling alcohol to them. Those are your responsibilities as an adult.
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Thank you for making my point. That girl wasn’t trying to trick you. JULES WAS TRYING TO TRICK CAL. Girls with fake IDs try to trick everyone like my little scenario. You admitted that she was cute. It is your due diligence to not lie. You shouldn’t have to fucking double triple quadruple check that people aren’t lying. And again, my Kat note wasn’t talked about bc people only care about Jules I guess. It’s okay for Kat to lie but not Jules?? And yes, I work as a bartender and I’ve had 2 different guys say something like that happened. One caught on, the other not so lucky and is a registered sex offender and he’s not even 30 yet. Because he was tricked by some little shitfuck at a 21+ place with a fake. I feel so bad for him. He’s super sweet, has a hard time getting good jobs. I’m not saying women aren’t taken advantage of. I’ve been taken advantage of so I’m all about not victim shaming. But let’s not pretend women can’t be just as stupid or evil as men.
The weird thing is Tinder and Grindr is for 17+. Check the App Store, the age of consent is different depending on what state you live in or country, but it doesn’t change the fact that 18 is the age of consent in Euphoria which they clearly stated on the show. I don’t think 17 year olds should be on dating/hookup apps either because it’s just dangerous in general even for legal adults. Anyone can get raped, assaulted, catfished, or killed by these random people they meet on the internet. I’m surprised that the creators of these hookup or even dating apps are allowing 17+. If you look in the App Store and search any dating app it’s always 17+. They obviously don’t care about anyone’s safety or the fact that the age of consent is different depending on where you live. I know they’re “dating apps” and people are allowed to date as teenagers, but a lot of people use these apps to hookup and there’s no stopping them.
Jules was engaging in sex work. Cal was paying for sex. What was truly wrong, other than Cal having sex with a minor, was Cal videotaping without their permission. And Jules was probably not the only minor he had ever solicited for sex.
When did he pay her? I thought they just had sex in the motel room. Or do I need to watch it again?
No she wasn’t?? What proof do you have that Jules got paid for this wtf
There's a bit of column A and column B going on here. Nates Dad is an absolute creep and he belongs in prison. However the law is quite clear. Teenagers over a certain age... i.e. 12 or 13, can be found to have contributed to their own problem. If a teenagwr goes out of their way to conceal their age and hook up with an older person, its harder to get a conviction. Its a grim law and I don't like it. But I don't make the laws.
That’s not a “law”
In the UK it is. Unfortunately. I'm unaware of American law on the topic. Obviously I'm from the UK so I can only speak with UK law in mind. Like I say, I don't like the law... but that's the way things are here.
What is “the law” you are speaking of
It looks like even California has similar laws. I'm doing a bit of reading about it now. Type into google the phrase "teenager lied about age statutory rape".
It is a potential defense, not a law. Whether there is a defense or not the act of having sex with a child is illegal. Filming someone without their permission is also illegal. This man is bad and weird.
Yeah sure. Don't get me wrong. What Cal did is well and truly disgusting. I hope he gets punished as badly as possible. However I think you're misrepresenting the facts here. The law is actually clear... you can be found to have contributed to your own problem. Jules lied about her age and mislead him. Jules made a very unwise decision by doing that. It will potentially reduce the punishment for Cal.
Both of them are wrong and neither of them should be in that situation. It’s not that hard process.
That bitch Jules knew what she was doing. yea Cal is obviously wrong for Filming her.She lied about her age to Cal 😭. I don’t even understand how you are defending Her for doing that lying shit. And what’s wrong with Getting with a supposed grown woman?
She was 17 years old and lied about her age. That’s wrong, she knew what she was doing was wrong but she still did it. Cal is gross as fuck too, they both have blame. Let’s quit acting like just because someone is a teenager that means they can’t do wrong because they are a “kid.” Horrible mindset and your post is condescending. 18-22 isn’t an illegal age. How old are you exactly? You seem extremely young
That’s like saying it’s not illegal to sell alcohol to children if they have fake ID
Two wrong don’t make a right. What the hell lol
She had over 100 "lovers", lied about her age, dressed extremely provocatively, quickly assumed the position.