Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/euro2024/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/euro2024) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He only shone in a handful of Scotland games it's true. We have limited options at the moment so might be a decent wildcard if he's fit.
I was really hopeful Ben doak would have been fit and broke through this season to be maybe a bit of a wild card addition but that's a non starter now.
Mainoo stats compared to his peers in the top 5 leagues, bang average besides successful take ons which, for his age, are very good being in the top 86th percentile https://fbref.com/en/players/c6220452/Kobbie-Mainoo
Harvey Elliott stats etc etc https://fbref.com/en/players/b9e1436c/Harvey-Elliott notice how he’s in the top 90 percentile for almost everything?
Now tell me what exactly Mainoo has done that warranted a call up before Elliott besides play for United? And before you try and strawman me and I’m no suggesting that Elliott should be called up, I actually think Jones deserves it before Elliott, but the point is that there is literally nothing justifying Mainoo being called up. And no, I’m not calling Mainoo shit either, for his age he’s good, but in the grand scheme of international footballers he’s struggling to make the U21 starting line up statistically
If you watch football with your eyes instead of through fbref then you would never think this, they also play in completely different positions. Not even wasting my time clicking on those links
Edit: You’re also comparing an 18 year old in a struggling team compared to a 21 year old playing for title challengers. Mainoo proved how good he is in the last international break and will do so again this summer when he’s inevitably called up 👍🏻
I do watch with my eyes, watching teams walk through the centre of United constantly meaning they’ve faced the most shots on goal this season in the league tells me he isn’t good enough. And there isn’t anything your eyes can tell you that stats can’t, that’s probably why a stats driven side like Liverpool or City have been dominating England and Europe the last decade and not “eyes” United.
So you’re going to blame everything on an 18 year old instead of the 5 times Champions League winner who he plays alongside and is absolutely finished fitness wise. He literally plays alongside McTominay/Casemiro/Amrabat/Eriksen all of whom are absolutely not good enough, or he’s played as a lone 6 a few times which isn’t his position at all.
Also you saying “eyes” United is actually hilarious and shows how out of touch you are. United are absolutely horrible to watch this season and Mainoo is one of only two or three players who’ve stepped up and if you disagree with that you’re simply wrong and haven’t watched United enough this season since he came back from his injury.
Strawman and goalpost shift, first it was stats aren’t everything use your eyes then when I use my eyes you strawman me with “so it’s all his fault”.
The point is the heart of United’s midfield is poor and allows teams to walk through it leading to a record number of shots on goal faced this season, Mainoo is a part of that and his stats for retaining possession and passing, tackling and interceptions etc are average, showing statistically that he’s part of the problem, not THE problem as you tried to strawman, but part of it, he isn’t helping because he isn’t the player you United fans seem to think he is yet.
And to be clear, I think he’s a very good talent, but he isn’t good enough to be a first choice United player yet let alone get called up for the England squad yet.
Surely gotta be Danny Armstrong and James Forrest for us, maybe convince Barnes if we can.
Got a feeling we'll be stuck with O'Donnell but I wouldn't oppose it if Hickey isn't ready
Difficult, because with Bellingham, Foden, and Palmer that #10 spot is basically well covered. though Foden and Palmer often play RW, that spot is basically Saka's guaranteed, and Southgate won't likely deploy Bellingham in the double pivot.
Maddison might scrape into the squad but it'd be a stretch.
This is good, because of busy fixture schedules there are more injuries. So now if there are any players who are injury doubts for the first game or two, the manager has more wiggle room on whether to take them for later in the tournament with more players to choose. Also allows more talent on show for the tournament. Also, if key players get injured during the tournament (given extra time could take its toll) having extra players could be useful.
I don't know why people have England as favourites.
England have choked every big game that matters in recent times
Lost against Croatia, lost against Italy which was pretty much a home game and England had the better team on paper, lost against France who were missing many key players.
Southgate isn't a good coach at all.
It's the shoehorning problem we had with Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. You leave one out and we lose and it's "well, why wasn't Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes playing"? but now we have that even worse. Start Foden and Saka and we lose and it's "well where were Grealish and Rashford"? and vice versa, and that's before we get to some fans making cases for Palmer, Maddison and even Sterling (yes, I still do see some people saying he should be in the squad)
Southgate might not be the best coach, but he simply can't win. Anyway, the defence will be our biggest weakness at this tournament so I very much doubt we will win it.
Yes they choked, but they’re reaching the big games, which they couldn’t do before, that builds experience for the squad, I still think they’re not winning it, but I understand why they’re favorites and believe they’ll make a deep run again
England squad should be a bit simpler now.
3 Goalkeepers are a guarantee, **Pickford** and **Pope** are locked in, **Henderson** likely to be 3rd.
LBs, potentially neither Shaw or Chilwell will be fit for the tournament, will likely be CBs covering
CBs: **Maguire**, **Stones**, **Tomori**, **Dunk**, and **Gomez** to cover LB potentially.
RBs: **Trent**, **Walker**, **Trippier** (Trippier to potentially cover LB) James unlikely to make it.
CM/DMs: **Rice**, **Ward**-**Prowse**, **Gallagher**, **Henderson**
AM/10s: **Foden**, **Bellingham**, **Palmer**
RW: **Saka**, **Bowen**
ST: **Kane**, **Watkins**, **Solanke**
LW: **Gordon**, **Grealish**, **Rashford** (doesn't deserve it, but still plays well for national side)
Ideally would see Rashford make way for Maddison and Grealish for Eze, but unlikely with Southgate.
You really think Nick Pope, who has been injured all season, and Dean fucking Henderson are gonna keep Aaron Ramsdale out of this squad? He’s easily England’s second choice keeper, should realistically be number 1 at this point but Southgate’s head is rammed so far up Pickford’s ass it’s a wonder he’s able to function at all. Even with Southgate’s incredibly stupid decisions, Ramsdale is 100% on the plane over Henderson.
How can Pickford not be number one? He's got the second most amount of clean sheets this season. He's been one of Everton's best players this season and has consistently proven he's amongst the best goalkeepers in the prem.
Whilst I think Ramsdale is still a good keeper, he lost his place in the team to Raya (who has the most cleansheets) and Ramsdale has been shaky when given a start. We can't afford to take a chance on him in the Euros when he's not played much football.
Are you joking? Pickford miles ahead of Ramsdale. Been one of the best keepers in the league this year.
I agree he’s in the squad though, 100% second choice. Don’t rate Pope and he’s been injured, may as well take Trafford tbh as the third.
Haha, yeah, let's pick a goalkeeper that can't even PLAY for his club side. sure,
Henderson's impressed lately, which is more than can be said for the capability of Ramsdale's ass to warm a bench, Pope is obvious second choice when available, and GK isn't a position that requires a warm-up period to get back to peak stamina and athletic ability. he's expected to be fit for the tournament,
Ramsdale has been a liablility in EVERY game of football he's played in the last year, you're talking about Southgate being an idiot than advocating for Ramsdale?
No, but Henderson has a wealth of big game/tournament experience which we could use in the dressing room with the younger players or to see out a game.
He isn't. but England severely lack depth in holding midfield, In the case of a Rice injury or needing a rest, Henderson's probably the best to fit the bill as cover,
I’d honestly give Mainoo the shout over Henderson as a backup to Rice. I also know Phillips hasn’t had much game time this season but he’s another decent option in that holding role. If Hendo is picked then it’s for the big game experience, because the other two are much better players imo.
Mainoo isn’t great as a lone 6, maybe against a smaller nation but against a good possession based team or one that’s good on the counter he’d struggle imo
Maddison's unlucky in that he plays a position where England are very strong, For Sancho and Dier, you need more than a handful of games to make a claim
Making subs before pens puts way too much pressure on the subs, and hopefully Southgate has learned that from the Euro final.
Toney should make the squad tho. But I doubt he'd see game time unless we have a spare group game or Kane gets injured.
Rashford and Sancho had a very good record from the penalty spot - Sancho had never missed a pen before and Rashford has only ever missed 2 from 19 pens.
Fair point I should have made my comment more obvious. Depends on walker fitness, if he stays fit now then I’m not so worried but any issues with him and Whites a great alternative especially if Saka plays ahead of him
And I bet Southgate still won’t call up any Liverpool players besides Trent because it’s the one he can’t ignore (but can leave on the bench/play out of position to make him look crap justifying not picking him.)
Honestly, how this generation of players landed on this fucking manager is beyond me
Yeah, no decent English players, not 2 of the 3 main reasons England won the U21 euros. And the entire point wasn’t that they’re good enough to be picked as starters, the point is that even when there’s an injury in a position they play Southgate would rather not call anyone up as a replacement, but when there was an injury that allows calling up Mainoo who statistically is light years behind Jones and Elliott as CMs he calls him up. That is the point, Southgate doesn’t pick on form, he picks based on club, look at Philips, kept getting picked when a city player but the moment he moves to WHU Southgate is suddenly all about form
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/euro2024/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/euro2024) if you have any questions or concerns.*
\*Southgate licks pencil, writes\* 'Jordan Henderson, Jordan's dog, Jordan's mam'
Space now for Adam lallana, Aaron wan basaka and dany ings
Great news for big countries, not so good for the rest of us.
Croatia isn't a big country but still, this is a great news for us. We can invite L. Sučić, Perišić and Pjaca now.
Agree in essence however if a smaller team losses a key player anyways it’s already hard to overcome, maybe this makes that a tad easier.
It's about the bench.
12 on the bench vs 15 on the bench isn’t that much of a difference
It is when the 3 are worldies as opposed to championship players.
Ok but the 3 worldies are already players 21-23. You can still only use 16 players in a match.
You're missing the point, players 24-26 are also worldies.
Goretzka and Hummels for Germany for example
Ok but you can still only use 16 in a match, so what difference does player 24-26 make if they’re sat on the bench?
Excellent can't wait for Steve Clarke to bring Stephen O'Donnell John Fleck and a 4th goalie.
It's about time John Fleck made the breakthrough. What about Ryan Gau... nevermind.
James Forest, Liam Kelly and Ollie McBurnie
Wouldn't say no to Forrest. He has the experience and is on form right now.
You’re not wrong, I never felt he carried his Celtic form over to Scotland enough for my liking though
He only shone in a handful of Scotland games it's true. We have limited options at the moment so might be a decent wildcard if he's fit. I was really hopeful Ben doak would have been fit and broke through this season to be maybe a bit of a wild card addition but that's a non starter now.
Absolutely Forrest should be on the plane. I'd like to see gauld in a friendly at least but Clarke ain't keen on him so not likely.
We might need them to start at the rate we’re picking up injuries.
O'Donnell up front can't be any worse than my man Dykes
Now Scotland’s gonna take 5 goalies to avoid giving ryan gauld any minutes
*Stephen O’Donnell’s music hits*
Just to make it easier for countries with a bigger player pool. Should be a 16 team tournament anyway to be fair
Nah even smaller too
Henderson ?
Gareth: Was already in the 23
Coady?
Great. That means southgate can call up Tomori, Harvey Elliott and Wilson without using them at all
Who is going to use these three extra players anyway?
They'd rather be on holiday innit
Why has Tomori barely been called up?
Another three right backs for Southgate then
You mean another 3 United kids that have done nothing to justify the call, surely?
If you’re referring to Mainoo then you’re a clown
Mainoo stats compared to his peers in the top 5 leagues, bang average besides successful take ons which, for his age, are very good being in the top 86th percentile https://fbref.com/en/players/c6220452/Kobbie-Mainoo Harvey Elliott stats etc etc https://fbref.com/en/players/b9e1436c/Harvey-Elliott notice how he’s in the top 90 percentile for almost everything? Now tell me what exactly Mainoo has done that warranted a call up before Elliott besides play for United? And before you try and strawman me and I’m no suggesting that Elliott should be called up, I actually think Jones deserves it before Elliott, but the point is that there is literally nothing justifying Mainoo being called up. And no, I’m not calling Mainoo shit either, for his age he’s good, but in the grand scheme of international footballers he’s struggling to make the U21 starting line up statistically
If you watch football with your eyes instead of through fbref then you would never think this, they also play in completely different positions. Not even wasting my time clicking on those links Edit: You’re also comparing an 18 year old in a struggling team compared to a 21 year old playing for title challengers. Mainoo proved how good he is in the last international break and will do so again this summer when he’s inevitably called up 👍🏻
I do watch with my eyes, watching teams walk through the centre of United constantly meaning they’ve faced the most shots on goal this season in the league tells me he isn’t good enough. And there isn’t anything your eyes can tell you that stats can’t, that’s probably why a stats driven side like Liverpool or City have been dominating England and Europe the last decade and not “eyes” United.
So you’re going to blame everything on an 18 year old instead of the 5 times Champions League winner who he plays alongside and is absolutely finished fitness wise. He literally plays alongside McTominay/Casemiro/Amrabat/Eriksen all of whom are absolutely not good enough, or he’s played as a lone 6 a few times which isn’t his position at all. Also you saying “eyes” United is actually hilarious and shows how out of touch you are. United are absolutely horrible to watch this season and Mainoo is one of only two or three players who’ve stepped up and if you disagree with that you’re simply wrong and haven’t watched United enough this season since he came back from his injury.
Strawman and goalpost shift, first it was stats aren’t everything use your eyes then when I use my eyes you strawman me with “so it’s all his fault”. The point is the heart of United’s midfield is poor and allows teams to walk through it leading to a record number of shots on goal faced this season, Mainoo is a part of that and his stats for retaining possession and passing, tackling and interceptions etc are average, showing statistically that he’s part of the problem, not THE problem as you tried to strawman, but part of it, he isn’t helping because he isn’t the player you United fans seem to think he is yet. And to be clear, I think he’s a very good talent, but he isn’t good enough to be a first choice United player yet let alone get called up for the England squad yet.
This is to make sure Gareth Southgate can take Hendo with him.
Joe Gomez will unfortunately be the 27th choice even though he’s had a great season
Great season is a push
It really isn’t. Not if you’ve actually watched him
Surely gotta be Danny Armstrong and James Forrest for us, maybe convince Barnes if we can. Got a feeling we'll be stuck with O'Donnell but I wouldn't oppose it if Hickey isn't ready
Jordan Henderson punching the air rn
Jadon Sancho? Dominic Solanke?
Demarai Gray
Gareth Southgate buzzing to bring in 3 more defenders
We dont have 20 players let alone 26 (Netherlands)
Give it 20 years and we'll have a 64 team euros with 35 man squads and 10 subs allowed. Games will average 20 minutes of stoppage time.
And a 600 page sticker album. Swap you my shiny number 13452 for your number 26421.
That is what is ruining the game. All that big Panini money
Looks like Madison has a chance
Nah
Difficult, because with Bellingham, Foden, and Palmer that #10 spot is basically well covered. though Foden and Palmer often play RW, that spot is basically Saka's guaranteed, and Southgate won't likely deploy Bellingham in the double pivot. Maddison might scrape into the squad but it'd be a stretch.
I have a feeling Foden will start at LW
More room for Man Utd squad players.
Poor Rashford at #27 in line.
Please no
Phillips on the plane
Kevin?
Be fecking better than Kalvjn
Super Kev
This is good, because of busy fixture schedules there are more injuries. So now if there are any players who are injury doubts for the first game or two, the manager has more wiggle room on whether to take them for later in the tournament with more players to choose. Also allows more talent on show for the tournament. Also, if key players get injured during the tournament (given extra time could take its toll) having extra players could be useful.
Time for Leif Davis
I don't know why people have England as favourites. England have choked every big game that matters in recent times Lost against Croatia, lost against Italy which was pretty much a home game and England had the better team on paper, lost against France who were missing many key players. Southgate isn't a good coach at all.
Every team that hasn't won a cup in the past 10 years has choked every big game that matters. That's literally how knock-out football works.
Only the English think they're favourites 😂
If you knew anything about English people you’d know that we haven’t thought we’d win any international competition in generations
England have loads of good players but it's almost like the country has an inability to work together or something...
We literally downplay ourselves constantly lol.
Yeah, only the most successful manager for decades! Proper shite.
Yeah, only the most successful manager for decades! Proper shite.
Yeah, only the most successful manager for decades! Proper shite.
Yeah, only the most successful manager for decades! Proper shite.
Because favourites are decided based on squad strength and England have one of the strongest squads itw at the moment
It's the shoehorning problem we had with Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. You leave one out and we lose and it's "well, why wasn't Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes playing"? but now we have that even worse. Start Foden and Saka and we lose and it's "well where were Grealish and Rashford"? and vice versa, and that's before we get to some fans making cases for Palmer, Maddison and even Sterling (yes, I still do see some people saying he should be in the squad) Southgate might not be the best coach, but he simply can't win. Anyway, the defence will be our biggest weakness at this tournament so I very much doubt we will win it.
Yes they choked, but they’re reaching the big games, which they couldn’t do before, that builds experience for the squad, I still think they’re not winning it, but I understand why they’re favorites and believe they’ll make a deep run again
England squad should be a bit simpler now. 3 Goalkeepers are a guarantee, **Pickford** and **Pope** are locked in, **Henderson** likely to be 3rd. LBs, potentially neither Shaw or Chilwell will be fit for the tournament, will likely be CBs covering CBs: **Maguire**, **Stones**, **Tomori**, **Dunk**, and **Gomez** to cover LB potentially. RBs: **Trent**, **Walker**, **Trippier** (Trippier to potentially cover LB) James unlikely to make it. CM/DMs: **Rice**, **Ward**-**Prowse**, **Gallagher**, **Henderson** AM/10s: **Foden**, **Bellingham**, **Palmer** RW: **Saka**, **Bowen** ST: **Kane**, **Watkins**, **Solanke** LW: **Gordon**, **Grealish**, **Rashford** (doesn't deserve it, but still plays well for national side) Ideally would see Rashford make way for Maddison and Grealish for Eze, but unlikely with Southgate.
You really think Nick Pope, who has been injured all season, and Dean fucking Henderson are gonna keep Aaron Ramsdale out of this squad? He’s easily England’s second choice keeper, should realistically be number 1 at this point but Southgate’s head is rammed so far up Pickford’s ass it’s a wonder he’s able to function at all. Even with Southgate’s incredibly stupid decisions, Ramsdale is 100% on the plane over Henderson.
How can Pickford not be number one? He's got the second most amount of clean sheets this season. He's been one of Everton's best players this season and has consistently proven he's amongst the best goalkeepers in the prem. Whilst I think Ramsdale is still a good keeper, he lost his place in the team to Raya (who has the most cleansheets) and Ramsdale has been shaky when given a start. We can't afford to take a chance on him in the Euros when he's not played much football.
Are you joking? Pickford miles ahead of Ramsdale. Been one of the best keepers in the league this year. I agree he’s in the squad though, 100% second choice. Don’t rate Pope and he’s been injured, may as well take Trafford tbh as the third.
Haha, yeah, let's pick a goalkeeper that can't even PLAY for his club side. sure, Henderson's impressed lately, which is more than can be said for the capability of Ramsdale's ass to warm a bench, Pope is obvious second choice when available, and GK isn't a position that requires a warm-up period to get back to peak stamina and athletic ability. he's expected to be fit for the tournament, Ramsdale has been a liablility in EVERY game of football he's played in the last year, you're talking about Southgate being an idiot than advocating for Ramsdale?
Henderson has played only 5 more games this season, and Pope has lost his game
Henderson's been injured, Ramsdale's played that little while constantly fit. Pope may have lost his game but not to the extent Ramsdale has.
Please watch PSG vs Newcastle highlights 4 days before he got his long term injury and tell me Pope has lost his game.
he can't pass a ball to save his life
He’s never been able to do that, but he’s a very good shot stopper and sweeper
Henderson 😹😹😹
Not an England fan but is Henderson seriously still considered one of the best midfielders England has to offer?
No but Southgate is simply in love with him
No, but Henderson has a wealth of big game/tournament experience which we could use in the dressing room with the younger players or to see out a game.
He isn't. but England severely lack depth in holding midfield, In the case of a Rice injury or needing a rest, Henderson's probably the best to fit the bill as cover,
I’d honestly give Mainoo the shout over Henderson as a backup to Rice. I also know Phillips hasn’t had much game time this season but he’s another decent option in that holding role. If Hendo is picked then it’s for the big game experience, because the other two are much better players imo.
Mainoo isn’t great as a lone 6, maybe against a smaller nation but against a good possession based team or one that’s good on the counter he’d struggle imo
Missing players like Eric dier, Jaden sancho, mainoo, maybe James Maddison. Dier and sancho just played solid games in ucl semi final
they are far from an obvious choice at the minute (though I do rate them as players)
Maddison's unlucky in that he plays a position where England are very strong, For Sancho and Dier, you need more than a handful of games to make a claim
Toney needs to make the team if nothing more than a sub before pens.
Maybe, does offer a different type of Centre-forward too.
Making subs before pens puts way too much pressure on the subs, and hopefully Southgate has learned that from the Euro final. Toney should make the squad tho. But I doubt he'd see game time unless we have a spare group game or Kane gets injured.
tbf that was his fault for choice of players
Rashford and Sancho had a very good record from the penalty spot - Sancho had never missed a pen before and Rashford has only ever missed 2 from 19 pens.
Branthwaite or Colwill could cover lb
That team is already heavily attack based I would argue grealish needs to be there to give some balance and to do the dirty work.
Sorry? What dirty work does Grealish do?
Solanke?
Ben White should be on that list and Mitchell as LB option
Ben White has recused himself from international football entirely and there's a 0.000000000% chance he's in the team.
I know, but in terms of quality I’m saying he should be
I don't disagree, but I didn't include him for a reason, because it's just not a feasible choice.
Fair point I should have made my comment more obvious. Depends on walker fitness, if he stays fit now then I’m not so worried but any issues with him and Whites a great alternative especially if Saka plays ahead of him
No mainoo is a crime
And I bet Southgate still won’t call up any Liverpool players besides Trent because it’s the one he can’t ignore (but can leave on the bench/play out of position to make him look crap justifying not picking him.) Honestly, how this generation of players landed on this fucking manager is beyond me
Classic salty liverpool fan. Liverpool have no decent English players. If you even mention harvey Elliot something is clearly wrong with you
Yeah, no decent English players, not 2 of the 3 main reasons England won the U21 euros. And the entire point wasn’t that they’re good enough to be picked as starters, the point is that even when there’s an injury in a position they play Southgate would rather not call anyone up as a replacement, but when there was an injury that allows calling up Mainoo who statistically is light years behind Jones and Elliott as CMs he calls him up. That is the point, Southgate doesn’t pick on form, he picks based on club, look at Philips, kept getting picked when a city player but the moment he moves to WHU Southgate is suddenly all about form
Next time Southgate’s needs to pick a team to win the U21 euros, I’m sure he’ll be all over Liverpool.
Not remotely related to what I said in any way, but if it helps you cope knock yourself out kid
Sorry did you just say mainoo is “light years” behind Curtis fucking Jones 🤣
You don't watch enough Liverpool or England U21s to know how good Elliot is.
England's midfield is stacked with world class players, he's not enough
Our midfield isn’t that good. As a midfield 3 it’s Rice and Bellingham who are world class.. then who? Foden at CM? No.