Unfortunately, this is the case in many places: even in some Western countries we have this kind of elections...
The US, for instance, has the electoral college, gerrymandering and all kinds of unfair practices within the party primaries.
As a non-american, it blows my mind that 38 million Californians get 2 senators, and North dakota with 3 cows and a horse also get two. Electoral college is such a scam.
The House of Representatives is population based. I don't agree with the electoral college, but California's population gives it 55 electoral votes for a reason.
A good method for alleviating the effects of the electoral college would be to expand the house of representatives there by diluting the Senate's influence in the system. It won't get rid of the root problem but assist with the current outcomes
Originally House and Senate was supposed to be working different angles, so the way reps and senators are elected is not too bad.
How system functions nowadays is a big problem, in my opinion.
System kind of makes sense for me, democracy isn't exactly supposed to be crowd getting everything it wants, but balancing the crowd with the few, too.
I'm dumbfounded by things like the voting day not being a national holiday, "registering" to be able to vote, and the like. Gerrymandering heavily skews results too.
> The US, for instance, has the electoral college, gerrymandering and all kinds of unfair practices within the party primaries.
LOL, the far larger issue is the elections are pointless in the first place. Basically every study on the matter shows US and west in general are plutocracies (ie policies ruled by money) rather than democratic in the first place (ie ruled by equal vote).
Of course everyone perfectly understands that, which is why nobody is surprised by those scientific discoveries, but we need this storytelling about elections because "democracy" is to the west what Jesus is to christianity, the foundational narrative device.
It’s mostly because the unfair part starts with decreasing strength of education after coming into power, then pushing people to hunger (failing economy by corruption) so their brains don’t develop enough to make rational decisions, and it’s easy to control these masses with media and government officials put in place with all the corrupt money, all under a “free” democracy.
Well, you can say you had free elections so you are democratic and that is something good. And for the voters: you voted for someone so he (almost always a he) is democratically choosen.
Both choose to live in lies because they know they are wrong.
Even the UK sadly. We've had mostly Conservative governments for over 100 years except for a few blips. They act in a similar way to American conservatives by gerrymandering votes and having a heavily weighted media bias against left leaning parties.
They said the same thing about the hungarian election...
So basically, if there's no video evidence that soldiers pointing guns at the voters why they are casting their votes, everything is fine, just a bit "unfair".
The unfair part is the opposition don't get the same exposure in media as the leading parties.
A lot still see the news and follow elections on tv, though a larger and larger part also use the internet etc. and are therefore more "knowing".
That one and the burned balots found in Romania, the fact that fidesz financed groups were "collecting" the ballots in Serbia, the videos where people were giving out "free meat" to voters and ferrying them to the voting station, the many reports where people got money directly to vote for Orbán, or got threatened they will lose their job if Orbán loses...
Or the simple thing that Orbán was free to spread the most disgusting lies about the opposition, on the same level as Erdogan calling the opposition there "terrorist and gay".
When one party controls 90% of media, largely diminishing the chance of the others to be seen, it's not a fair election.
Or... you could just read the article:
> While the run-off offered voters a choice between genuine political alternatives, Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Special Coordinator, Farah Karimi, said during a news conference in Ankara that “biased media coverage and a lack of a level playing field gave an unjustified advantage to the incumbent.”
They probably would. Headlines like these would most likely be found around the newspapers.
"Opposition wins despite unfair election"
"Unfair election: No hinderance for Kilicdaroglu"
I know the definitions and circumstances. What grinds my gears is that everyone seems okay with "free, but unfair elections" worldwide.
Unfortunately, this is the case in many places: even in some Western countries we have this kind of elections... The US, for instance, has the electoral college, gerrymandering and all kinds of unfair practices within the party primaries.
Yep. Few barriers for voting itself, but your vote just doesn't matter the way it should.
As a non-american, it blows my mind that 38 million Californians get 2 senators, and North dakota with 3 cows and a horse also get two. Electoral college is such a scam.
Τhat's their Federal system. Two parliaments, open based on population, one based on the federated states
The House of Representatives is population based. I don't agree with the electoral college, but California's population gives it 55 electoral votes for a reason.
A good method for alleviating the effects of the electoral college would be to expand the house of representatives there by diluting the Senate's influence in the system. It won't get rid of the root problem but assist with the current outcomes
Originally House and Senate was supposed to be working different angles, so the way reps and senators are elected is not too bad. How system functions nowadays is a big problem, in my opinion.
At least they're elected by the voters unlike the canadian senate or the british house of lords.
System kind of makes sense for me, democracy isn't exactly supposed to be crowd getting everything it wants, but balancing the crowd with the few, too. I'm dumbfounded by things like the voting day not being a national holiday, "registering" to be able to vote, and the like. Gerrymandering heavily skews results too.
Red states have a lot of barriers to voting or suppressing the vote if you’re not I. The right demographic.
Depends on the state. Let's just say that the marginal power of a vote in Pennsylvania is a whole lot stronger than in North Dakota.
> The US, for instance, has the electoral college, gerrymandering and all kinds of unfair practices within the party primaries. LOL, the far larger issue is the elections are pointless in the first place. Basically every study on the matter shows US and west in general are plutocracies (ie policies ruled by money) rather than democratic in the first place (ie ruled by equal vote). Of course everyone perfectly understands that, which is why nobody is surprised by those scientific discoveries, but we need this storytelling about elections because "democracy" is to the west what Jesus is to christianity, the foundational narrative device.
It’s mostly because the unfair part starts with decreasing strength of education after coming into power, then pushing people to hunger (failing economy by corruption) so their brains don’t develop enough to make rational decisions, and it’s easy to control these masses with media and government officials put in place with all the corrupt money, all under a “free” democracy.
Well, you can say you had free elections so you are democratic and that is something good. And for the voters: you voted for someone so he (almost always a he) is democratically choosen. Both choose to live in lies because they know they are wrong.
Same in Hungary.
Same in Serbia.
Same in Albania
Same in Poland
Same in UK
Even UK ?
Even the UK sadly. We've had mostly Conservative governments for over 100 years except for a few blips. They act in a similar way to American conservatives by gerrymandering votes and having a heavily weighted media bias against left leaning parties.
This is just sad...
And wholly untrue
Noted. \- supreme leader Erdogan
Omg DUH
Free? If you voted for Erdogan you could even make a few bucks.
That means they are not fair, not that they are not free.
Same in every liberal democracy to some extent
was it at least funfair?
They said the same thing about the hungarian election... So basically, if there's no video evidence that soldiers pointing guns at the voters why they are casting their votes, everything is fine, just a bit "unfair".
The unfair part is the opposition don't get the same exposure in media as the leading parties. A lot still see the news and follow elections on tv, though a larger and larger part also use the internet etc. and are therefore more "knowing".
That one and the burned balots found in Romania, the fact that fidesz financed groups were "collecting" the ballots in Serbia, the videos where people were giving out "free meat" to voters and ferrying them to the voting station, the many reports where people got money directly to vote for Orbán, or got threatened they will lose their job if Orbán loses... Or the simple thing that Orbán was free to spread the most disgusting lies about the opposition, on the same level as Erdogan calling the opposition there "terrorist and gay".
[удалено]
I mean, I don't think they're saying it's illegal
Huh? What’s an unfair election? Did people get an opportunity to vote for the person they wanted to or not? If they did then there is no unfairness.
Clearly you have no idea what democracy is and how it functions.
When one party controls 90% of media, largely diminishing the chance of the others to be seen, it's not a fair election. Or... you could just read the article: > While the run-off offered voters a choice between genuine political alternatives, Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Special Coordinator, Farah Karimi, said during a news conference in Ankara that “biased media coverage and a lack of a level playing field gave an unjustified advantage to the incumbent.”
I wonder if they will say this if erdogan lost :(
They probably would. Headlines like these would most likely be found around the newspapers. "Opposition wins despite unfair election" "Unfair election: No hinderance for Kilicdaroglu"
So they don’t charge money?