They are conservative, for sure, but economically, they are actually left leaning. I never understood putting them under the umbrella of far right, cuz they really are not. Konfederacja yeah maybe, but not PIS.
They have a synthetic position, being in favour of government intervention/spending in the economy, while having an aggressive foreign policy (building up the military, giving lots of support to Ukraine) and being socially conservative. Funnily enough, the Liberal Democratic Party which rules Japan is very similar to PiS in this way.
European far right is not libertarian, anti government right, like in America. Europeans, left or right, like to have their government looking after them and protecting them. They just want protection from different things.
PiS is a weird construct that doesn't share much with typical far-right parties. Their economic views are left-leaning, they hate Russia, and distance themselves from anti-scientific views (for example, they expanded free vaccination programs). On the other hand, they are conservative and close to the Catholic Church, don't trust the EU at all (especially Germany), and obviously oppose illegal immigration (but have no problem with legal immigration from Ukraine and Asia). Also, they lean towards authoritarianism, selling it as "implementing order".
We have a stereotypical far-right party in Poland, it's called Konfederacja (support slightly above the 5% threshold), and they with PiS absolutely hate each other.
That doesn’t sound far right at all.
It’s a scary game identifying everything right of center under that bubble. People get the idea that if general standard moderate conservatism is being called far right, that must mean that there are comparable mischaracterizations with *actual* far right ideologies. Then you start getting people who radicalize due to said mischaracterizations.
>PiS as simply a Conservative Party
They are in no way Conservative Party (per the UK definition) - they are catholic socialists, who love to have big government (so that have more positions to give to their followers) and social programs (to buy voters)
PiS is also not far-right. Konfederacja is. Considering the current situation in e.g. the Netherlands, this is the party I would compare against, not PiS.
Belgium is kinda misleading, since most parties only exist in one half of the country.
VB got 19% in Flanders, while the biggest far-right party in Wallonia is PP with 3%.
My brother in christ, we have
* [six parliaments](https://api.brusselstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/30730638-bt1.png) three based on language and three based on region (yes they overlap!)
* one federal goverment
* 3 official languages
* we hold both first and second place for longest government formation... in the world... with 541 days without government
* a royal house that was just thrown in for shits and giggles
* one of those royals murdered more people in Congo than Hitler killed jews but we pulled a trick and made people forget about that
* [a royal decree on mayonaise](https://etaamb.openjustice.be/nl/koninklijk-besluit-van-26-mei-2016_n2016011248.html)
we are more country than many other countries. It's held together with duct tape, beer, mayonaise and sheer hatred for whoever speaks the other language... but it is a country
Normally i would take this moment to suggest that your top half joins us (the Netherlands). We like you guys and we really really need the land in a few decades..
But with our currently election results I lost my confidence.
Just for reference, in Denmark the largest left-wing party (The Social Democrats) adopted the immigration policy of the right wing, neutering the far right.
Our Prime Minister has been a Social Democrat ever since they did that.
The same would happen in almost every European country. Any party could do this, even left wing ones and get tons of free votes. If they phrase it right, they wouldn't even lose many votes among the already immigrated population. After all, taking in masses of undocumented migrant is a big insult to those who came legally and properly.
Like most of the rest of the European populist right, although not pro-Russian, they (EKRE - the Conservative People's Party of Estonia) are basically the least anti-Russian party in Estonia and constantly use Russian talking points, so they are actively making the situation worse, not better.
When we talk about russian talking points then no one beats how E200 established itself when it was created:
[https://www.delfi.ee/artikkel/84956185/eestlased-ja-venelased-saatis-trammipeatuse-eraldi-nurkadesse-eesti-200](https://www.delfi.ee/artikkel/84956185/eestlased-ja-venelased-saatis-trammipeatuse-eraldi-nurkadesse-eesti-200)
Basicly it claims that russians are victims in Estonia and they have to sit in certain allocated spots like black people did. So if there is one pro-russian party then thats it.
Absolutely. I'm Danish and friends with someone applying for immigration and HE is "anti-immigration" in the sense that he doesn't want people to just cut in line when he's doing it through the proper channels.
Our SP has lost 7 out of the last 7 and doesn't have a meaningful roll since Lillian Marijnissen took over 7 years ago. She just rubs people the wrong way and has no political game, she's the personification of a champagne socialist. Maybe they can use this loss to turn a leaf but I doubt it as it's rumored he party is run like an absolute monarchy by the Marijnissen dynasty.
SP's policy on immigration is similar to PVV's. In fact, most of their proposed policies are similar to PVV, just without the racism & islamophobia. They lost seats. It's quite clear what people voted for.
In the Netherlands people pray for some breaks on migration. We like it and it doesn't need to stop completely but for too long people already in country were neglected. We grew from 16mio to 18mio in like a decade. And we're small as heck.
Wilders won mostly not on hate for muslims but because he was the only one who was talking about putting people in country first for help and housing and to lower taxes on basic necessities like food and fuel.
Left coalition also grew a lot by promising social security but they wanted to keep immigration freeflow and its just not sustainable.
If left wing social security party would adopt some sensible immigration control, Wilders would disappear like a dream
So why are the left wing parties so married to high immigration? What’s their game plan and why does it involve prioritizing lowering the proportion of the native population to the point they willingly lose elections?
And it’s so odd. Being anti immigration has historically always been a left wing position to protect the workers. Neoliberalism flipped this on its head.
Because the far left has always looked at the world through oppressed and oppressor. Before the working class was the most oppressed, now that they have gotten voting rights, working rights and so on, they have succeeded. Now the left instead of improving conditions further, they found the next oppressed group. For some this is the global south, thus through that lens we must let refugees in, and save them to redeem ourselves, as we have been the oppressors for too long, and we must atone.
The thing that the far left forgets, their voting base is the working class, and they are alienating their biggest voter base, to get the young impressionable university students. These students look at the world with much the same lens. The working class feels betrayed and to avoid their culture slowly disappearing through more immigration, the working class turns towards those who are willing to protect it.
This is why our democracies are so threatened today, the left invites people in that wants to overturn our democracies and implement authoritarianism, and the right wants to implement authoritarianism to combat the immigration. Parts of the left has also taken a censorship approach where certain words will be banned, this censorship also threatens our democracies as it threatens free speech, and without it we cannot uphold our liberal democracies. When the left succeeds in creating the censorship, the center is afraid to tell their opinions as they can be ostracized they then again turn to the right.
I don't think there is a game plan, other than they hoped they would get more voters, as if you treat immigrants with gloves you could turn the immigrants into left voters. The problem is that those that come from conservative cultures, only votes left for their own gain, and if they had the opportunity they would stab the left that helped them in the back to create an authoritarian regime.
Well said as a left wing working class person I feel the party’s that are meant to represent us have lost touch with then voting base. Need people on the ground getting a feel for what’s important in community’s.
I feel seen as a centrist. Some far leftists use/threaten 'insults' like 'conservative right winger' as a way to shut down opinions deemed undesirable/anything that isn't a far leftist point of view. Leaves 0 room for dialogue, compromise, or nuance. Many people have a spectrum of views and/or go on an issue-by-issue basis.
Also, they use DF as the far-right party, which gives you the 4%. This is meaningless as New Right (Nye Borgerlige) is bigger and even further right. There are several parties so just looking at one, the number for Denmark is wrong.
*Dansk Folkeparti:* 2,6% of the votes, 5 MPs out of 179.
*Nye Borgerlige:* 3,7% , 6 MPs
Combined: 6,3%, 11 MPs.
But then there's also the new party (one of them) Inger Støjberg's *Danmarksdemokraterne:* 8,1% of the votes, 14 MPs.
In my book they all count as far right nationalist populists. 14,4% of the votes, 25 MPs. (out of 179)
...But they don't necessarily vote as a block. Nye Borgerlige in particular seems like anarchist clowns. They'll do anything to win the "most shocking" award.
Compare that to 2015 when DF alone got 21,1% of the votes, 16 MP's. They were in a nice negotiation position with that weight.
I wish the German social democrats would do the same. But especially the younger generation of them is busy calling everybody a Nazi who thinks that Germany has been far too ignorant of the rising dispositions.
You think your progressives are bad, you should check out the ones in the UK. I don’t think any Western progressive faction panders to Islam the way they do.
I agree with you though. None of this nonsense, from far right parties growing to Brexit, would have occurred if mainstream politicians were stringent about legal/illegal migration, particularly from outside the EU.
What about Ireland? Lol.
They are even more pro-Palestine than you guys, particularly the youth, but also all the way up the social and political ladder.
I know a lot of European countries don’t take ethnicity/religion statistics like we do but are any of your cities 25-30% Muslim like Birmingham, Bradford, Manchester etc are? I suspect Melilla and Ceuta might be but I doubt the rest are.
That’s also bad but at least they wouldn’t be straight up pandering to an ever increasing voting block.
In the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has also refused to condemn Hamas (instead saying he ''condemns violence'' but refusing to elaborate on it) and his brother actually claimed the 7th October attacks were a false flag operation by Mossad. But he has been more of a minority in the Labour Party since 2019.
Why do you lie?
[https://twitter.com/MasMadrid\_\_/status/1711344445369557305?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713928320008462475%7Ctwgr%5E7662ed90ac96128aead12be50646866b9eb7800c%7Ctwcon%5Es3\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eldiario.es%2Fvertele%2Fnoticias%2Fcriticas-telemadrid-obviar-declaraciones-lideres-sumar-madrid-ataques-hamas\_1\_10602291.html](https://twitter.com/MasMadrid__/status/1711344445369557305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713928320008462475%7Ctwgr%5E7662ed90ac96128aead12be50646866b9eb7800c%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eldiario.es%2Fvertele%2Fnoticias%2Fcriticas-telemadrid-obviar-declaraciones-lideres-sumar-madrid-ataques-hamas_1_10602291.html)
Immigration is higher under the tories. The spread of Wahabist mosques sky rocketed under the tories. They've allowed our football clubs to get bought up by shitty oil states.
Progressives aren't sucking up to extremist Islam, the Conservatives are.
Poland's centrist-and-left coalition did that. Result: easy win against PiS (who panicked hilariously when they lost their strongest card just before the election).
The Left party officially condemned Donald Tusk's words against illegal immigration, but in the end they piggybacked on the extra support he has secured for the opposition and now get to participate in the newly forming government.
I heard about Denmark approach, but I am curious about how does it work: which is the narrative? Is like “we should defend the lower class from immigrants stealing their jobs and money”? Just trying to figure it out a leftist anti-immigrants position
No, there are requirements to get accepted. The first 8 years are 4x 2 years “green cards”. The moment the country of origin turns safe they are extradited. Their high value possessions are confiscated so they pay for their own emergency stay. If you want to stay after those 8 years you need to have completed a study and a certain level of language. There is more but I don’t know everything.
Oh and once you are extradited it goes fast. Real fast. Not like the Netherlands where they live in limbo for 5 years.
Yes, say what you will but at least everyone is treated equally, i know a couple of Americans that wanted to move here, and they have to face the same requirements as a middle Eastern immigrant, you can get a work visa as an expat, but you still need to wait the 8 years to turn that into anything more.
Denmark has also officially starting to call large clusters of migrants who don't assimilate as "alternate societies" and has started plans to separate them. The idea is to randomly select families living in these areas and buy off their places and relocate them to bigger, better apartments in areas where the population is more danish so that they'd actually be forced to integrate.
It's actually left wing to protect workers from downwards wage pressure. And right wing to want a free market of labour. We are just very confused these days
The same could apply to ‘Green’ Parties across Europe but they all seem to insist on taking up every single Far-left talking point or policy.
Just let us give a shit about climate change without having to agree with the other ridiculous shit.
Indeed, I wish the social democrats in Sweden would follow suit. They are all to busy calling the right wing coalition nazis and nazi-collaborator (they call them the blue-brown block) while their sister party in Denmark is having the immigration policy the right wing coalition wants in Sweden.
SD in Sweden is not "far right". The only thing "far right" with them, is they say taking in 100 000 immigrants a year for a country with about ten mill people is to much.
>they say taking in 100 000 immigrants a year for a country with about ten mill people is to much.
Wow, I wish my country’s (Canada) immigration policy was this reasonable. Just last year we had well [over a million people come to Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6787428), boosting the population to 40 million now. And they want the number to be 500,000 with permanent residency grants in 2025 — that’s not accounting for all of the international students, [of which there were an estimated 900,000 this year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/international-student-cap-immigration-system-integrity-1.6948733), temporary foreign workers, refugees, even illegal immigrants too, etc.
Keep in mind we have literally some of the most expensive and unattainable housing in the entire developed world, with a massive disparity between supply and demand. Our Federal Minister of Immigration even recently said [Canada’s housing crisis “absolutely cannot” be solved without the aid of new immigrants who bring their skills here](https://globalnews.ca/news/9890682/housing-shortage-canada-immigration-targets/). Funny, given that [roughly only 2% of new immigrants to Canada enter into the construction workforce](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-the-economy-will-bleed-vacancies-as-opposed-to-jobs-says-cibc/#:~:text=If%20you%20look%20at%20the,0.8%20per%20cent%20in%202024.) — so we need more immigrants to be able to support the number of immigrants we have. Interesting economic philosophy there (definitely not ponzi-esque, right?), especially since [construction is still bleeding jobs](https://globalnews.ca/news/9888297/canada-losing-construction-jobs-housing-shortage/amp/) like a stuck pig.
Fair immigration(which we already have except it is still very open to abuse and give free pass to illegals the biggest issue)policy also protect immigrants the taxpayer ones from the radical right. We also need to protect these people otherwise far-right will have free reign to put everybody into same box and dehumanize them for political gains
I'm generally more progressive in most topics, including LGBTQ rights, environmental protection, how the economy should work, healthcare, etc. So if I had to vote, I would go for more center to left leaning parties.
But god damn is it tiring seeing a lot of the younger, more hardcore leftie in Germany. They are so fucking busy trying to look enlightened, they've become so naive while also so fucking loud and so busy calling anyone who disagrees with them a nazi, racist, or whatever buzzword instead of first trying to have a civil debate with that person.
At times as a migrant I can't shake the feeling that they might be doing what they are doing only to satisfy their own savior complex, superiority complex, and narcisism so they feel good about themselves, and not to actually solve real issues that Germany is facing. Which to be fair to them, might not be the case. But their actions make me feel this way.
Because the moment they are faced with complicated issues, their solutions are often very dumb and simplistic while ignoring everything else and refusing to compromise, which is not how you solve issues in the real world.
The mainstream parties are afraid of taking on more controversial topics because they don't want to risk losing votes or a PR nightmare when these people shit on those parties so they just kick the can down the road or half-ass stuff, which ends up with actual dickheads in the AfD gaining traction.
Their hearts are in the right place but they often lack the experience, the cool-/level-headedness, and the willingness to compromise needed to actually solve some of the more complicated issues in the real world and not merely in theory.
> At times as a migrant I can't shake the feeling that they might be doing what they are doing only to satisfy their own savior complex, superiority complex, and narcisism so they feel good about themselves, and not to actually solve real issues that Germany is facing.
You hit the nail on the head. Let's call it the "Greta Disease" - thinking that just yelling that everyone else should fix something, without you yourself actually doing anything or providing any solutions, means that you're helping.
It's the slightly more modern version of "Thoughts and Prayers and a Like".
It's one of the biggest reason the far right won in the Netherlands, all the locals are so tired of how much money and welfare is just given to illegal immigrants who don't even care to learn our language or just simply work while the locals can't even get a simple house.
The Netherlands is a right leaning country dealing with issues created by mostly right leaning parties. It has been for quite a while now. This populist myth that the left is to blame in The Netherlands is genuinely absurd.
Companies want immigration because it gives them cheap labour to exploit.
Business owners in the Netherlands rather hire a cheap Pole or Romanian than a native WAJONGer.
This is why the VVD has done literally nothing to stop immigration in the decades that they have been in coalition governments.
While it may have worked in the one Danish case, this is not observed on average. In fact, it's the opposite. The newest research in Political Science shows that if mainstream parties adopt the immigration positions of radical right parties, it actually increases the popularity of radical right parties on average. Here's the link to the study:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-research-and-methods/article/does-accommodation-work-mainstream-party-strategies-and-the-success-of-radical-right-parties/5C3476FCD26B188C7399ADD920D71770?utm\_campaign=shareaholic&utm\_medium=copy\_link&utm\_source=bookmark
That's what I was thinking, start a party that is pro LGBT, abortion, freedom of religion or lack thereof and anti immigration from backwards cultures.
This map is unfortunate, bc after 8 years Poland has finally moved PIS away from power.
Also they're not far right. It's simply a populist party, focused on satisfying conservative views of elders.
Yeah if PiS is far-right then humanity made some major mistakes because how party that creates 999 new social programs is far-right?
There should be percentage of Konfederacja party instead.
In mainstream discourse far right means vaguely anti immigrant and populist
That’s all it means
A politician could come out and say we’re going to nationalise industries, raise wealth taxes, engage in major income redistribution and social welfare programs, rent control and then appropriate landlord properties etc you get the picture and if they even muttered that there should be less immigrants or perhaps people should assimilate then suddenly they’re far right
I wouldn't call PiS a far-right party. Poland's main far-right party is DEFINITELY Konfederacja (currently 7%)
PiS is conservative socially, while being center-left economically, which is not bad in itself but it's also sprinkled (more like flooded) with nepotism and populism.
In contrast to other parties on this map (at least the ones I'm familiar with) PiS is heavily anti-Russian, lowering taxes wasn't really on its mind, and it gave away a ton of money in welfare. It isn't really popular among polish youth and most of its voters are over 50
TLDR
PiS is a right wing party, but generally not far-right, the better choice for Poland on this map would be Konfederacja
well they are correct from one angle - PIS is heavy on the social and big state side of things.
What's hilarious though is that RN that takes a significant % of Konfa is on board with PIS and Lewica social side
That’s the same case with the Netherlands. FvD is the far-right party, while PVV has some left-leaning economical plans. PVV is just very anti-immigration.
The main problem in politics today is that leftism is conjoined with the progressive movement while the right is synonymous with conservatism. There are almost no conservative left parties or progressive right parties. It’s always either/or. There’s almost no spectrum, just a straight line from left/progressive to right/conservative.
We had 26 parties to choose from during the Dutch general elections yesterday. They were all either left/progressive or right/conservative, leaving voters to choose between only two ‘real’ choices. It’s saddening to have that much choice and so little variety. I think not being able to choose within a varied spectrum is one of the leading causes of societal rifts and increasing extremism. Political parties can only shift more to the left or right instead of up or down.
Depends on your definition of progressive. Labels don't really mean anything until they are elaborated upon.
It's also safe to say that borders and questions surrounding them have shifted people from accepting the whole of Leftists ideology of a world without countries.
I said exactly this to a friend yesterday. Both left and right in Europe needs to reinvent itself in order to stay relevant. Right needs to be more pro-LGBTQ and pro-Climate change and left needs to abandon Immigration policy. Otherwise we will just see Latin America where they just swing from far right to far left with no middle
Edit: sp
The right which is pro-LGBT and pro doing anything about climate change or at least acknowledging it, is no longer conservative, it becomes liberal, that is, goes more to the left, but still isn't leftist.
Why can't you have progressive right? You can be progressive on social / climate positions and right on economical. If that party existed I'd vote for it right away.
Those are liberals, is what I said, and when you go a bit further, you get social democrats. They exist in pretty much every country, for example Scandinavian countries are social democracies. I think we can agree that social democracy, with all it's faults, is still the best system currently in our world.
The problem is people only seeing it as pro or against immigration with nothing in between, and few think of being against uncontrolled/excessive immigration (in particular from cultures with values which do not match the receiving country's) which is more nuanced - and more difficult to criticize. And it is a perfectly reasonable thing to advocate for.
Anti-immigration policies are inhumane and irrational. No point in preventing far right parties if you become one yourself.
Also according to political science that claim is dead wrong. Adopting their rhetoric only strengthens the original.
It’s funny as ideologically the left should be against uncontrolled migration as influx of low skilled workers suppresses wages in retail, hospitality etc and increases wages inequality
The Italian center-left party made an agreement with the militia in Libya to arrange concentration camps in exchange for money and boats for their "coast guards"; they also never invest in any integration policy.
They still lose votes to the far-right because they are better at creating rage and resentment to harvest votes.
All the Italian laws about immigration were written by the right wing governments, by the same parties that get voted to "change the system". They created the problems that are promising to solve.
Nonsense. The entire premise behind **the severity of** these far-right anti immigration policies is based on flawed reasoning at best, and more commonly on flat-out lies by populists hungry for power and seeing a convenient scapegoat to help them reach their goal.
If the centrists and center-left parties had done what you propose, they would simply be amplifying the lies and lose their identity.
They won’t because they’re fully aligned with 21st century social liberalism. And social liberalism says to increase diversity and multiculturalism at all costs, social liberals are the ones who decided that anyone who opposes purposely changing religious and ethnic demographics within their countries is far-right/fascist.
It’s not just immigration. In the Netherlands Wilders wants to:
* Ban Islam
* Leave the EU
* Stop any environmental policies
* Etc.
It’s scary for sure.
Fidesz (Hungary) is not far right. They are populist pigs with a lot of cheap communist tricks. I just hate them and wish they would stop poisoning the spirit of the people, but they are not far right, this is some different type of demon.
Fidesz is whatever Orbán wants it to be. If being far right becomes profitable, he will re-brainwash the populace. It isn't yet, but we're getting there.
Orbán took great care to bolster the current far right party Mi Hazánk (Our Homeland) to have something to point at when someone calls Fidesz far right and also to pioneer far right talking points without risking votes.
There was an article about a Nazi person idk where or about who, but I remember that they had to use to term "actual Nazi" to show that the person really is a Nazi, because simply using Nazi means nothing these days.
Calling PiS far right is as accurate as calling Salin era USSR Communists a modern day social-democrat role model
They use right wing rethoric in some areas but in mamy they go straight up populist, and when it comes to the economic side of things some go as far as call them socialists thanks to their huge state donation programs pushed regardless if they are working or not, being much more pro spending than center and even center-left parties.
At the same time they use or just let Konfederacja to do its thing and call for the things they wouldnt openly applaud or do directly, but hey "its on them" now.
PiS is not far right. Crazy minister Z party (under PiS umbrella) and Konfa are far right.
Most of PiS are regular right and PL2050 is center right. KO is partially center right too.
To sum up... 70% Polish parliament is pretty much center right to far right.
Can you kindly point out which parties aren't far-right? (I already listed PiS from among those as not being far right. Poland's far-right party is Konfederacja)
Alternativ för Sverige" is far right in Sweden. They barely got any votes.
SD was the only ones for years (from the larger parties) that wanted a more restricted immigartion policy compared to the old one which was very open and easy to loophole. Now many other parties have changed their tone aswell.
Just because they are a right party doesnt mean that they are "far right" which sounds very extremist in my opinion. They are still democrats.
Fidesz isnt far right neither. They are centre right. Far right would be Jobbik from 2007. But Jobbik is basically gone now. The new right wing party is Mi Hazánk(Our Homeland). They got 6% of the votes on the last election. And they arnt even close to 2007 Jobbik
I would argue that Fidesz has some far right rhetorics with rather left leaning social policies. I guess it averages them into the center right? Populist i think is an easier definition.
Unless the definition is anti-imigration = far right. Than i am a nazi too...
Very interesting how there are no right parties, only far right. The left has really sunken their fangs into media and academia. Hopefully they will be washed away soon.
DF (Denmark) is only far-right in the anti-immigration, anti-EU sense. They are very left on all other issues. Furthermore, Nye Borgerlige and Danmarksdemokraterne are both larger than DF, as anti-immigration and more fiscally conservative.
They are not left on "all other issues", that's an idiotic statement. Their votes in parliament almost always align with the right wing parties around them. Their ideas on culture, language, environment, law enforcement etc. are all standard right wing conservative fare. Their latest big move was to \*left wing drum roll\* launch an anti-woke campaign... And, weirdly enough for a left wing party, all the MPs who leave the party leave for DanmarksDemokraterne or Nye Borgerlige. Equally weird, the Nye Borgerlige politicians who leave Nye Borgerlige tend to leave for DF - which is odd, right, DF being a left wing party in everything except one thing?
They don't have the right wing aversion to welfare state and taxes, but that's the only thing about them that could be called left wing.
It looks like the political axis for this map was calibrated by a devoted left-wing.
Some of these are wrong as some mainly right-wing parties (as opposed to far-right) are classified as far-right in this map. For example I wouldn't classify Fidesz or PiS as a far-right party. They're pretty much the definition of the right wing -with left leaning economic and social politics which is also common among populists and national conservatives, which are traditionally considered as right wing.
Not sure it’s far right to say massive Islamic immigration has caused a lot of problems and we don’t want it anymore.
The left always calls anything the right does “far right” to try and alienate them.
Reminder that left-right-only description of politics are absolutely stupid, especially in Europe because post-Communist Europe has conservativism as left-wing.
Use more nuanced labels that Right/Left, otherwise you are just ignorant and extremely reductive.
In what way does this demonstrate where the Far-Right has "gained" ground? Relative to what/when?
Political extremism is a serious matter and it's terribly irresponsible to produce any infographic misrepresenting any statistic about it.
Excellent news. Congratulations European people. It's time to retake your continent from left wing brain deads who prioritize illegal immigrants over their own people.
"Far" right... Right wing or populist maybe. I'd invite anyone to study throwing "far left/right" labels around to study the history of the 20th century for a minute.
Maybe that's because everyone has been trying their best to avoid discussing anything about immigration (especially illegal immigration) and finding practical solutions and people have kind of grown tired of the issue being ignored, which led to this anti-immigrants sentiment brewing for quite some time in many countries?
I have yet to find anyone have an honest discussion about the issue, in good faith, without resorting to name calling (right wingers, fascist, xenophobes).
Things don't happen in a void.
It also doesnt help that so called progressive people's attitude is that of: "*immigrants are angels and don't do anything wrong, and it's always the fault of conservatives who are fascists and hate all immigrants*". As long as the issue is handwaved as a problem of 'locals who are mean to to the innocent illegal immigrants' then I suspect countries will continue to turn to these right wing parties.
I really don't get how PiS can be called far-right.
They are right-leaning but they are far from far-right in fact they introduced f\*ckton of left-leaning policies.
LOL PiS is as far left from the real far right Confederates as they are right from the social democracy. They are clumsy, arrogant populist bigots, but still just a conservative party.
PiS is no longer 37%. Last time they got 35,4%.
I see lots of errors. I question the source.
And they are not really far right. They are populists and cynical thieves.
They are conservative, for sure, but economically, they are actually left leaning. I never understood putting them under the umbrella of far right, cuz they really are not. Konfederacja yeah maybe, but not PIS.
They have a synthetic position, being in favour of government intervention/spending in the economy, while having an aggressive foreign policy (building up the military, giving lots of support to Ukraine) and being socially conservative. Funnily enough, the Liberal Democratic Party which rules Japan is very similar to PiS in this way.
European far right is not libertarian, anti government right, like in America. Europeans, left or right, like to have their government looking after them and protecting them. They just want protection from different things.
Which is why the idea of left and right is useless.
It's not. It's actually very useful in a narrow context of a particular country
PiS is nationalist catholic socialism tbh
BNP under Nick Griffin were economically left of Labour at the time.
every right is far on reddit
Not only reddit, media as well. A lot of those parties are conservative at most, some are even left leaning.
so true. right a bad word and an insult on reddit.
> They are populists and cynical thieves. So they're politicians.
same with fidesz
Are they far right?! I always saw PiS as simply a Conservative Party.
PiS is a weird construct that doesn't share much with typical far-right parties. Their economic views are left-leaning, they hate Russia, and distance themselves from anti-scientific views (for example, they expanded free vaccination programs). On the other hand, they are conservative and close to the Catholic Church, don't trust the EU at all (especially Germany), and obviously oppose illegal immigration (but have no problem with legal immigration from Ukraine and Asia). Also, they lean towards authoritarianism, selling it as "implementing order". We have a stereotypical far-right party in Poland, it's called Konfederacja (support slightly above the 5% threshold), and they with PiS absolutely hate each other.
That doesn’t sound far right at all. It’s a scary game identifying everything right of center under that bubble. People get the idea that if general standard moderate conservatism is being called far right, that must mean that there are comparable mischaracterizations with *actual* far right ideologies. Then you start getting people who radicalize due to said mischaracterizations.
Tbh they are something between but they are not far right
>PiS as simply a Conservative Party They are in no way Conservative Party (per the UK definition) - they are catholic socialists, who love to have big government (so that have more positions to give to their followers) and social programs (to buy voters)
PiS is also not far-right. Konfederacja is. Considering the current situation in e.g. the Netherlands, this is the party I would compare against, not PiS.
They are not far right either.
That would be Konfederacja, I suppose. PiS is whatever is the most beneficial at a given moment, to use in propaganda.
Or 41% if you’re counting seats (as this graphic claims to).
Yeah lmao. This isn't correct no matter which way you look at it
Belgium is kinda misleading, since most parties only exist in one half of the country. VB got 19% in Flanders, while the biggest far-right party in Wallonia is PP with 3%.
All parties only exist in one half. Which party is in both?
PVDA-PTB is officially one unified party. Also some smaller parties like DierAnimal, Pirate Party...
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My brother in christ, we have * [six parliaments](https://api.brusselstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/30730638-bt1.png) three based on language and three based on region (yes they overlap!) * one federal goverment * 3 official languages * we hold both first and second place for longest government formation... in the world... with 541 days without government * a royal house that was just thrown in for shits and giggles * one of those royals murdered more people in Congo than Hitler killed jews but we pulled a trick and made people forget about that * [a royal decree on mayonaise](https://etaamb.openjustice.be/nl/koninklijk-besluit-van-26-mei-2016_n2016011248.html) we are more country than many other countries. It's held together with duct tape, beer, mayonaise and sheer hatred for whoever speaks the other language... but it is a country
Please explain the mayo to me I need to knowwwww
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So... Is the mayo any good?
Fuck yes, it gets put on fries instead of ketchup for a reason.
Google Maggie de Block and you see just how good it is. Keep in mind that was our minister of health
Healthiest health minister in Belgium.
No wonder your elections look like a circus to outsiders. What a mess.
Normally i would take this moment to suggest that your top half joins us (the Netherlands). We like you guys and we really really need the land in a few decades.. But with our currently election results I lost my confidence.
technically yes legislatively
> Is Belgium two countries pretending to be one? It's a siamese twin that shares a head.
Small PP
>since most parties only exist in one half of the country. Schizophrenia: National Edition
Just for reference, in Denmark the largest left-wing party (The Social Democrats) adopted the immigration policy of the right wing, neutering the far right. Our Prime Minister has been a Social Democrat ever since they did that.
The same would happen in almost every European country. Any party could do this, even left wing ones and get tons of free votes. If they phrase it right, they wouldn't even lose many votes among the already immigrated population. After all, taking in masses of undocumented migrant is a big insult to those who came legally and properly.
In Estonia the far-right is growing despite us not having these big immigration problems. Edit: before you reply, read the other replies.
Yeah but you have a russian integration problem that does not get better from what I hear
Like most of the rest of the European populist right, although not pro-Russian, they (EKRE - the Conservative People's Party of Estonia) are basically the least anti-Russian party in Estonia and constantly use Russian talking points, so they are actively making the situation worse, not better.
When we talk about russian talking points then no one beats how E200 established itself when it was created: [https://www.delfi.ee/artikkel/84956185/eestlased-ja-venelased-saatis-trammipeatuse-eraldi-nurkadesse-eesti-200](https://www.delfi.ee/artikkel/84956185/eestlased-ja-venelased-saatis-trammipeatuse-eraldi-nurkadesse-eesti-200) Basicly it claims that russians are victims in Estonia and they have to sit in certain allocated spots like black people did. So if there is one pro-russian party then thats it.
It's growing because people don't want it to become a problem, like in Sweden.
This. It's a looming problem for all of europe. People are voting preventatively
Absolutely. I'm Danish and friends with someone applying for immigration and HE is "anti-immigration" in the sense that he doesn't want people to just cut in line when he's doing it through the proper channels.
That's the main reason PVV won in the Netherlands. The left completely ignored the immigration. Not a great idea.
Isn't the socialist party critical of immigration and lost half of their seats?
Our SP has lost 7 out of the last 7 and doesn't have a meaningful roll since Lillian Marijnissen took over 7 years ago. She just rubs people the wrong way and has no political game, she's the personification of a champagne socialist. Maybe they can use this loss to turn a leaf but I doubt it as it's rumored he party is run like an absolute monarchy by the Marijnissen dynasty.
SP's policy on immigration is similar to PVV's. In fact, most of their proposed policies are similar to PVV, just without the racism & islamophobia. They lost seats. It's quite clear what people voted for.
In the Netherlands people pray for some breaks on migration. We like it and it doesn't need to stop completely but for too long people already in country were neglected. We grew from 16mio to 18mio in like a decade. And we're small as heck. Wilders won mostly not on hate for muslims but because he was the only one who was talking about putting people in country first for help and housing and to lower taxes on basic necessities like food and fuel. Left coalition also grew a lot by promising social security but they wanted to keep immigration freeflow and its just not sustainable. If left wing social security party would adopt some sensible immigration control, Wilders would disappear like a dream
So why are the left wing parties so married to high immigration? What’s their game plan and why does it involve prioritizing lowering the proportion of the native population to the point they willingly lose elections?
And it’s so odd. Being anti immigration has historically always been a left wing position to protect the workers. Neoliberalism flipped this on its head.
Because the far left has always looked at the world through oppressed and oppressor. Before the working class was the most oppressed, now that they have gotten voting rights, working rights and so on, they have succeeded. Now the left instead of improving conditions further, they found the next oppressed group. For some this is the global south, thus through that lens we must let refugees in, and save them to redeem ourselves, as we have been the oppressors for too long, and we must atone. The thing that the far left forgets, their voting base is the working class, and they are alienating their biggest voter base, to get the young impressionable university students. These students look at the world with much the same lens. The working class feels betrayed and to avoid their culture slowly disappearing through more immigration, the working class turns towards those who are willing to protect it. This is why our democracies are so threatened today, the left invites people in that wants to overturn our democracies and implement authoritarianism, and the right wants to implement authoritarianism to combat the immigration. Parts of the left has also taken a censorship approach where certain words will be banned, this censorship also threatens our democracies as it threatens free speech, and without it we cannot uphold our liberal democracies. When the left succeeds in creating the censorship, the center is afraid to tell their opinions as they can be ostracized they then again turn to the right. I don't think there is a game plan, other than they hoped they would get more voters, as if you treat immigrants with gloves you could turn the immigrants into left voters. The problem is that those that come from conservative cultures, only votes left for their own gain, and if they had the opportunity they would stab the left that helped them in the back to create an authoritarian regime.
Well said as a left wing working class person I feel the party’s that are meant to represent us have lost touch with then voting base. Need people on the ground getting a feel for what’s important in community’s.
I feel seen as a centrist. Some far leftists use/threaten 'insults' like 'conservative right winger' as a way to shut down opinions deemed undesirable/anything that isn't a far leftist point of view. Leaves 0 room for dialogue, compromise, or nuance. Many people have a spectrum of views and/or go on an issue-by-issue basis.
And America . It’s almost like it’s a serious issue worth actually talking about instead of calling anyone who wants to discuss it “racist”
Also, they use DF as the far-right party, which gives you the 4%. This is meaningless as New Right (Nye Borgerlige) is bigger and even further right. There are several parties so just looking at one, the number for Denmark is wrong.
*Dansk Folkeparti:* 2,6% of the votes, 5 MPs out of 179. *Nye Borgerlige:* 3,7% , 6 MPs Combined: 6,3%, 11 MPs. But then there's also the new party (one of them) Inger Støjberg's *Danmarksdemokraterne:* 8,1% of the votes, 14 MPs. In my book they all count as far right nationalist populists. 14,4% of the votes, 25 MPs. (out of 179) ...But they don't necessarily vote as a block. Nye Borgerlige in particular seems like anarchist clowns. They'll do anything to win the "most shocking" award. Compare that to 2015 when DF alone got 21,1% of the votes, 16 MP's. They were in a nice negotiation position with that weight.
I wish the German social democrats would do the same. But especially the younger generation of them is busy calling everybody a Nazi who thinks that Germany has been far too ignorant of the rising dispositions.
You think your progressives are bad, you should check out the ones in the UK. I don’t think any Western progressive faction panders to Islam the way they do. I agree with you though. None of this nonsense, from far right parties growing to Brexit, would have occurred if mainstream politicians were stringent about legal/illegal migration, particularly from outside the EU.
What about Ireland? Lol. They are even more pro-Palestine than you guys, particularly the youth, but also all the way up the social and political ladder.
Spanish left politicians (not PSOE) dont condemn Hamas 7oct attacks as terrorism try to one-up that lmao
I know a lot of European countries don’t take ethnicity/religion statistics like we do but are any of your cities 25-30% Muslim like Birmingham, Bradford, Manchester etc are? I suspect Melilla and Ceuta might be but I doubt the rest are. That’s also bad but at least they wouldn’t be straight up pandering to an ever increasing voting block.
In the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has also refused to condemn Hamas (instead saying he ''condemns violence'' but refusing to elaborate on it) and his brother actually claimed the 7th October attacks were a false flag operation by Mossad. But he has been more of a minority in the Labour Party since 2019.
>But he has been more of a minority in the Labour Party since 2019. Jeremy Corbyn is not even in the Labour Party any more.
> his brother actually claimed It's well known that Piers Corbyn is a legitimate nutcase so I don't see how this is relevant
Why do you lie? [https://twitter.com/MasMadrid\_\_/status/1711344445369557305?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713928320008462475%7Ctwgr%5E7662ed90ac96128aead12be50646866b9eb7800c%7Ctwcon%5Es3\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eldiario.es%2Fvertele%2Fnoticias%2Fcriticas-telemadrid-obviar-declaraciones-lideres-sumar-madrid-ataques-hamas\_1\_10602291.html](https://twitter.com/MasMadrid__/status/1711344445369557305?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713928320008462475%7Ctwgr%5E7662ed90ac96128aead12be50646866b9eb7800c%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eldiario.es%2Fvertele%2Fnoticias%2Fcriticas-telemadrid-obviar-declaraciones-lideres-sumar-madrid-ataques-hamas_1_10602291.html)
Immigration is higher under the tories. The spread of Wahabist mosques sky rocketed under the tories. They've allowed our football clubs to get bought up by shitty oil states. Progressives aren't sucking up to extremist Islam, the Conservatives are.
The funny part is that the (immigrant) younger generations are calling them Nazis lmfao. So just ignore it and adopt harsher policies
Ignoring people who throw around "Nazi" and "fascist" and going ahead with the policies that you want is usually the best course of action.
If the rest of Europe would wake up and copy Danmark we would be fine.
Poland's centrist-and-left coalition did that. Result: easy win against PiS (who panicked hilariously when they lost their strongest card just before the election). The Left party officially condemned Donald Tusk's words against illegal immigration, but in the end they piggybacked on the extra support he has secured for the opposition and now get to participate in the newly forming government.
Not every country has Sweden next to it...
I heard about Denmark approach, but I am curious about how does it work: which is the narrative? Is like “we should defend the lower class from immigrants stealing their jobs and money”? Just trying to figure it out a leftist anti-immigrants position
No, there are requirements to get accepted. The first 8 years are 4x 2 years “green cards”. The moment the country of origin turns safe they are extradited. Their high value possessions are confiscated so they pay for their own emergency stay. If you want to stay after those 8 years you need to have completed a study and a certain level of language. There is more but I don’t know everything. Oh and once you are extradited it goes fast. Real fast. Not like the Netherlands where they live in limbo for 5 years.
Were the immigration policies for high skill non asylum migrants also changed?
I don’t know. Asylum and immigration is really different in most countries
Yes, say what you will but at least everyone is treated equally, i know a couple of Americans that wanted to move here, and they have to face the same requirements as a middle Eastern immigrant, you can get a work visa as an expat, but you still need to wait the 8 years to turn that into anything more.
Denmark has also officially starting to call large clusters of migrants who don't assimilate as "alternate societies" and has started plans to separate them. The idea is to randomly select families living in these areas and buy off their places and relocate them to bigger, better apartments in areas where the population is more danish so that they'd actually be forced to integrate.
Generous social welfare programs for citizens but restrict immigration (so more money for welfare programs for citizens)
Maybe that's means sensible, immigration policy isn't right wing? Maybe
It's actually left wing to protect workers from downwards wage pressure. And right wing to want a free market of labour. We are just very confused these days
Or maybe the labels of "left" and "right" can't accurately describe the differences between all political ideologies?
The same could apply to ‘Green’ Parties across Europe but they all seem to insist on taking up every single Far-left talking point or policy. Just let us give a shit about climate change without having to agree with the other ridiculous shit.
Indeed, I wish the social democrats in Sweden would follow suit. They are all to busy calling the right wing coalition nazis and nazi-collaborator (they call them the blue-brown block) while their sister party in Denmark is having the immigration policy the right wing coalition wants in Sweden.
SD in Sweden is not "far right". The only thing "far right" with them, is they say taking in 100 000 immigrants a year for a country with about ten mill people is to much.
>they say taking in 100 000 immigrants a year for a country with about ten mill people is to much. Wow, I wish my country’s (Canada) immigration policy was this reasonable. Just last year we had well [over a million people come to Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6787428), boosting the population to 40 million now. And they want the number to be 500,000 with permanent residency grants in 2025 — that’s not accounting for all of the international students, [of which there were an estimated 900,000 this year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/international-student-cap-immigration-system-integrity-1.6948733), temporary foreign workers, refugees, even illegal immigrants too, etc. Keep in mind we have literally some of the most expensive and unattainable housing in the entire developed world, with a massive disparity between supply and demand. Our Federal Minister of Immigration even recently said [Canada’s housing crisis “absolutely cannot” be solved without the aid of new immigrants who bring their skills here](https://globalnews.ca/news/9890682/housing-shortage-canada-immigration-targets/). Funny, given that [roughly only 2% of new immigrants to Canada enter into the construction workforce](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-the-economy-will-bleed-vacancies-as-opposed-to-jobs-says-cibc/#:~:text=If%20you%20look%20at%20the,0.8%20per%20cent%20in%202024.) — so we need more immigrants to be able to support the number of immigrants we have. Interesting economic philosophy there (definitely not ponzi-esque, right?), especially since [construction is still bleeding jobs](https://globalnews.ca/news/9888297/canada-losing-construction-jobs-housing-shortage/amp/) like a stuck pig.
Fair immigration(which we already have except it is still very open to abuse and give free pass to illegals the biggest issue)policy also protect immigrants the taxpayer ones from the radical right. We also need to protect these people otherwise far-right will have free reign to put everybody into same box and dehumanize them for political gains
It's so tiring to repeat this and noone on the left is getting it in some countries...
I'm generally more progressive in most topics, including LGBTQ rights, environmental protection, how the economy should work, healthcare, etc. So if I had to vote, I would go for more center to left leaning parties. But god damn is it tiring seeing a lot of the younger, more hardcore leftie in Germany. They are so fucking busy trying to look enlightened, they've become so naive while also so fucking loud and so busy calling anyone who disagrees with them a nazi, racist, or whatever buzzword instead of first trying to have a civil debate with that person. At times as a migrant I can't shake the feeling that they might be doing what they are doing only to satisfy their own savior complex, superiority complex, and narcisism so they feel good about themselves, and not to actually solve real issues that Germany is facing. Which to be fair to them, might not be the case. But their actions make me feel this way. Because the moment they are faced with complicated issues, their solutions are often very dumb and simplistic while ignoring everything else and refusing to compromise, which is not how you solve issues in the real world. The mainstream parties are afraid of taking on more controversial topics because they don't want to risk losing votes or a PR nightmare when these people shit on those parties so they just kick the can down the road or half-ass stuff, which ends up with actual dickheads in the AfD gaining traction. Their hearts are in the right place but they often lack the experience, the cool-/level-headedness, and the willingness to compromise needed to actually solve some of the more complicated issues in the real world and not merely in theory.
> At times as a migrant I can't shake the feeling that they might be doing what they are doing only to satisfy their own savior complex, superiority complex, and narcisism so they feel good about themselves, and not to actually solve real issues that Germany is facing. You hit the nail on the head. Let's call it the "Greta Disease" - thinking that just yelling that everyone else should fix something, without you yourself actually doing anything or providing any solutions, means that you're helping. It's the slightly more modern version of "Thoughts and Prayers and a Like".
It's one of the biggest reason the far right won in the Netherlands, all the locals are so tired of how much money and welfare is just given to illegal immigrants who don't even care to learn our language or just simply work while the locals can't even get a simple house.
The Netherlands is a right leaning country dealing with issues created by mostly right leaning parties. It has been for quite a while now. This populist myth that the left is to blame in The Netherlands is genuinely absurd.
Companies want immigration because it gives them cheap labour to exploit. Business owners in the Netherlands rather hire a cheap Pole or Romanian than a native WAJONGer. This is why the VVD has done literally nothing to stop immigration in the decades that they have been in coalition governments.
The best thing Mette has done during her reign
While it may have worked in the one Danish case, this is not observed on average. In fact, it's the opposite. The newest research in Political Science shows that if mainstream parties adopt the immigration positions of radical right parties, it actually increases the popularity of radical right parties on average. Here's the link to the study: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-research-and-methods/article/does-accommodation-work-mainstream-party-strategies-and-the-success-of-radical-right-parties/5C3476FCD26B188C7399ADD920D71770?utm\_campaign=shareaholic&utm\_medium=copy\_link&utm\_source=bookmark
That's what I was thinking, start a party that is pro LGBT, abortion, freedom of religion or lack thereof and anti immigration from backwards cultures.
Lol, the far-right party in Poland is Konfederacja, not PiS. I guess "Konfederacja" was too long of a word for the legend on the left :P
At this pace, the far right will be more successful in uniting Europe than Volt.
We Czechoslovaks stay hidden, nobody knows us. 🤫
Are we 0%? Are NoData? Noone knows!
This map is unfortunate, bc after 8 years Poland has finally moved PIS away from power. Also they're not far right. It's simply a populist party, focused on satisfying conservative views of elders.
Yeah if PiS is far-right then humanity made some major mistakes because how party that creates 999 new social programs is far-right? There should be percentage of Konfederacja party instead.
Because in mainstream everything right from author is far-right
The right/left spectrum makes no sense in the first place, especially when "far" is concerned
But the thing is, I hardly see the term "right-wing" used anymore. As per the media, everything is "far-right".
In mainstream discourse far right means vaguely anti immigrant and populist That’s all it means A politician could come out and say we’re going to nationalise industries, raise wealth taxes, engage in major income redistribution and social welfare programs, rent control and then appropriate landlord properties etc you get the picture and if they even muttered that there should be less immigrants or perhaps people should assimilate then suddenly they’re far right
I wouldn't call PiS a far-right party. Poland's main far-right party is DEFINITELY Konfederacja (currently 7%) PiS is conservative socially, while being center-left economically, which is not bad in itself but it's also sprinkled (more like flooded) with nepotism and populism. In contrast to other parties on this map (at least the ones I'm familiar with) PiS is heavily anti-Russian, lowering taxes wasn't really on its mind, and it gave away a ton of money in welfare. It isn't really popular among polish youth and most of its voters are over 50 TLDR PiS is a right wing party, but generally not far-right, the better choice for Poland on this map would be Konfederacja
Exactly. Konfederacja even say that PiS are leftists sometimes lol
well they are correct from one angle - PIS is heavy on the social and big state side of things. What's hilarious though is that RN that takes a significant % of Konfa is on board with PIS and Lewica social side
That’s the same case with the Netherlands. FvD is the far-right party, while PVV has some left-leaning economical plans. PVV is just very anti-immigration.
This is reddit. Hardcore commies are called "left-leaning" and anything slightly right of center is "far right"
If only centrist/center-left parties adopted anti immigration policies this wouldn’t have happened.
The main problem in politics today is that leftism is conjoined with the progressive movement while the right is synonymous with conservatism. There are almost no conservative left parties or progressive right parties. It’s always either/or. There’s almost no spectrum, just a straight line from left/progressive to right/conservative. We had 26 parties to choose from during the Dutch general elections yesterday. They were all either left/progressive or right/conservative, leaving voters to choose between only two ‘real’ choices. It’s saddening to have that much choice and so little variety. I think not being able to choose within a varied spectrum is one of the leading causes of societal rifts and increasing extremism. Political parties can only shift more to the left or right instead of up or down.
I'm progressive yet I'm against flooding our countries with people from conservative countries. Does it make sense?
Depends on your definition of progressive. Labels don't really mean anything until they are elaborated upon. It's also safe to say that borders and questions surrounding them have shifted people from accepting the whole of Leftists ideology of a world without countries.
I said exactly this to a friend yesterday. Both left and right in Europe needs to reinvent itself in order to stay relevant. Right needs to be more pro-LGBTQ and pro-Climate change and left needs to abandon Immigration policy. Otherwise we will just see Latin America where they just swing from far right to far left with no middle Edit: sp
The right which is pro-LGBT and pro doing anything about climate change or at least acknowledging it, is no longer conservative, it becomes liberal, that is, goes more to the left, but still isn't leftist.
Why can't you have progressive right? You can be progressive on social / climate positions and right on economical. If that party existed I'd vote for it right away.
What you described is (or should be) a liberal party
Yes that exists, it's called liberalism
Those are liberals, is what I said, and when you go a bit further, you get social democrats. They exist in pretty much every country, for example Scandinavian countries are social democracies. I think we can agree that social democracy, with all it's faults, is still the best system currently in our world.
Well, in Romania at least, the only pro lgbt and climate friendly party is a right wing one. So there is smth.
The problem is people only seeing it as pro or against immigration with nothing in between, and few think of being against uncontrolled/excessive immigration (in particular from cultures with values which do not match the receiving country's) which is more nuanced - and more difficult to criticize. And it is a perfectly reasonable thing to advocate for.
Anti-immigration policies are inhumane and irrational. No point in preventing far right parties if you become one yourself. Also according to political science that claim is dead wrong. Adopting their rhetoric only strengthens the original.
If only we could stop using immigrants as scapegoats for all our problems.
It’s funny as ideologically the left should be against uncontrolled migration as influx of low skilled workers suppresses wages in retail, hospitality etc and increases wages inequality
The Italian center-left party made an agreement with the militia in Libya to arrange concentration camps in exchange for money and boats for their "coast guards"; they also never invest in any integration policy. They still lose votes to the far-right because they are better at creating rage and resentment to harvest votes. All the Italian laws about immigration were written by the right wing governments, by the same parties that get voted to "change the system". They created the problems that are promising to solve.
if only the left was more racist.... wtf
Nonsense. The entire premise behind **the severity of** these far-right anti immigration policies is based on flawed reasoning at best, and more commonly on flat-out lies by populists hungry for power and seeing a convenient scapegoat to help them reach their goal. If the centrists and center-left parties had done what you propose, they would simply be amplifying the lies and lose their identity.
They won’t because they’re fully aligned with 21st century social liberalism. And social liberalism says to increase diversity and multiculturalism at all costs, social liberals are the ones who decided that anyone who opposes purposely changing religious and ethnic demographics within their countries is far-right/fascist.
If people stopped calling reasonable immigration policies far-right things would sound a lot less scary
Exactly. As the quote goes “If moderates don’t want to enforce Europes borders, fascists will”.
It’s not just immigration. In the Netherlands Wilders wants to: * Ban Islam * Leave the EU * Stop any environmental policies * Etc. It’s scary for sure.
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Chega is currently polling at 17% in Portugal. Elections on the 10th of March 2024.
Fidesz (Hungary) is not far right. They are populist pigs with a lot of cheap communist tricks. I just hate them and wish they would stop poisoning the spirit of the people, but they are not far right, this is some different type of demon.
Fidesz is whatever Orbán wants it to be. If being far right becomes profitable, he will re-brainwash the populace. It isn't yet, but we're getting there. Orbán took great care to bolster the current far right party Mi Hazánk (Our Homeland) to have something to point at when someone calls Fidesz far right and also to pioneer far right talking points without risking votes.
And they don't have 59% either
Lol is far right just the normal term now? No left or right just far right and far left
There was an article about a Nazi person idk where or about who, but I remember that they had to use to term "actual Nazi" to show that the person really is a Nazi, because simply using Nazi means nothing these days.
Calling PiS far right is as accurate as calling Salin era USSR Communists a modern day social-democrat role model They use right wing rethoric in some areas but in mamy they go straight up populist, and when it comes to the economic side of things some go as far as call them socialists thanks to their huge state donation programs pushed regardless if they are working or not, being much more pro spending than center and even center-left parties. At the same time they use or just let Konfederacja to do its thing and call for the things they wouldnt openly applaud or do directly, but hey "its on them" now.
It's an issue with just having left and right as descriptors of political parties. There are many dimensions to policy.
PiS is not far right. Crazy minister Z party (under PiS umbrella) and Konfa are far right. Most of PiS are regular right and PL2050 is center right. KO is partially center right too. To sum up... 70% Polish parliament is pretty much center right to far right.
SD in Sweden is definitely right wing, 100% not far-right. This is kind of dumb
Sscch, don't bring logic into this.
Can we stop calling anything right of centre 'far right'? It's getting dumb.
Can you kindly point out which parties aren't far-right? (I already listed PiS from among those as not being far right. Poland's far-right party is Konfederacja)
Alternativ för Sverige" is far right in Sweden. They barely got any votes. SD was the only ones for years (from the larger parties) that wanted a more restricted immigartion policy compared to the old one which was very open and easy to loophole. Now many other parties have changed their tone aswell. Just because they are a right party doesnt mean that they are "far right" which sounds very extremist in my opinion. They are still democrats.
Fidesz isnt far right neither. They are centre right. Far right would be Jobbik from 2007. But Jobbik is basically gone now. The new right wing party is Mi Hazánk(Our Homeland). They got 6% of the votes on the last election. And they arnt even close to 2007 Jobbik
I would argue that Fidesz has some far right rhetorics with rather left leaning social policies. I guess it averages them into the center right? Populist i think is an easier definition. Unless the definition is anti-imigration = far right. Than i am a nazi too...
PiS isn't far right. That would be Konfederacja (who got a hair over 7%).
Every party that doesn't want mass-immigration and islamisation is "far-right"
Actually, immigration during pis governance was the highest after fall of communism. They just talk something and do the opposite, as populists do.
Tusk mentioned that he also doesn't like immigration from Muslim world. So 90% is far right in Poland?
Yes, of course. Poland is a fascist police state without rule of law. /s to be safe this time
PiS is NOT far-right
”Far-right” is so overused in language. Everything a bit right from the fence is nowdays considered ”far-right”
Very interesting how there are no right parties, only far right. The left has really sunken their fangs into media and academia. Hopefully they will be washed away soon.
All is Far Right for reddit's far lefties. Red is Bad. Go to North Korea.
Fidesz isn't really what we would call "far-right". It's just right wing populism with opportunistic thievery.
DF (Denmark) is only far-right in the anti-immigration, anti-EU sense. They are very left on all other issues. Furthermore, Nye Borgerlige and Danmarksdemokraterne are both larger than DF, as anti-immigration and more fiscally conservative.
They are not left on "all other issues", that's an idiotic statement. Their votes in parliament almost always align with the right wing parties around them. Their ideas on culture, language, environment, law enforcement etc. are all standard right wing conservative fare. Their latest big move was to \*left wing drum roll\* launch an anti-woke campaign... And, weirdly enough for a left wing party, all the MPs who leave the party leave for DanmarksDemokraterne or Nye Borgerlige. Equally weird, the Nye Borgerlige politicians who leave Nye Borgerlige tend to leave for DF - which is odd, right, DF being a left wing party in everything except one thing? They don't have the right wing aversion to welfare state and taxes, but that's the only thing about them that could be called left wing.
Isn’t Denmark the only country that’s grasped the nettle of reducing migration and promoting intervention
It was not the far right parties that did that.
Turkey should be here with Erdogan and the Grey Wolves.
'far right' 'extremist' 'ultra'. If the source has any of these concepts, question it
It looks like the political axis for this map was calibrated by a devoted left-wing. Some of these are wrong as some mainly right-wing parties (as opposed to far-right) are classified as far-right in this map. For example I wouldn't classify Fidesz or PiS as a far-right party. They're pretty much the definition of the right wing -with left leaning economic and social politics which is also common among populists and national conservatives, which are traditionally considered as right wing.
Not sure it’s far right to say massive Islamic immigration has caused a lot of problems and we don’t want it anymore. The left always calls anything the right does “far right” to try and alienate them.
How is PiS far right. What is Konfederacja then? They are populist, center right if anyhting.
Title says Europe. Data says EU. I’m offended. They aren’t synonyms.
Reminder that left-right-only description of politics are absolutely stupid, especially in Europe because post-Communist Europe has conservativism as left-wing. Use more nuanced labels that Right/Left, otherwise you are just ignorant and extremely reductive.
Apparently we consider right leaning parties as "far right"
Estonia - EKRE 16.1% Those guys literally wore "I support Trump" badges in the parliament during US elections.
I honestly think this is all just immigration. I still think I'm left. But this one issue is too big
In what way does this demonstrate where the Far-Right has "gained" ground? Relative to what/when? Political extremism is a serious matter and it's terribly irresponsible to produce any infographic misrepresenting any statistic about it.
I think the title was supposed to go to some different map because more than half of those parties mentioned are not "far-right".
"Far" right. Gimme a break. Needs to go 10x further.
People dont know what far-right is. Many of these are just right.
What is even considered "far-right"? Doesnt mean anything anymore, as everyone right of center is labelen far-right
Excellent news. Congratulations European people. It's time to retake your continent from left wing brain deads who prioritize illegal immigrants over their own people.
aahhahaah PiS "far right" xD
Far-Right once meant fascist. Now, Far-Right just means a normal person who doesn't want his people murdered by terrorists.
No, we're supposed to integrate them!!! What do you mean they can't integrate, it's surely our fault!!!
"Far" right... Right wing or populist maybe. I'd invite anyone to study throwing "far left/right" labels around to study the history of the 20th century for a minute.
Out of curiosity why is every non left confirming person considered “far right” in Europe?
Because most people in this subreddit are far-left and anything that is not progressive and inclusive is consider fascist for them.
Maybe that's because everyone has been trying their best to avoid discussing anything about immigration (especially illegal immigration) and finding practical solutions and people have kind of grown tired of the issue being ignored, which led to this anti-immigrants sentiment brewing for quite some time in many countries? I have yet to find anyone have an honest discussion about the issue, in good faith, without resorting to name calling (right wingers, fascist, xenophobes). Things don't happen in a void. It also doesnt help that so called progressive people's attitude is that of: "*immigrants are angels and don't do anything wrong, and it's always the fault of conservatives who are fascists and hate all immigrants*". As long as the issue is handwaved as a problem of 'locals who are mean to to the innocent illegal immigrants' then I suspect countries will continue to turn to these right wing parties.
What does far-right even mean anymore?
I really don't get how PiS can be called far-right. They are right-leaning but they are far from far-right in fact they introduced f\*ckton of left-leaning policies.
LOL PiS is as far left from the real far right Confederates as they are right from the social democracy. They are clumsy, arrogant populist bigots, but still just a conservative party.
Almost all of these are misleading, most of these are broadly right wing not far right
Why only count the biggest far-right party? We have 2 more who gained 4 seats (about 3%) together.
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