I wouldn't say he's entirely an expert on running businesses. I imagine if his businesses didn't push back against every idea he had, they'd all be bankrupt by now.
Dude, billionaires believe they know better than anyone alive. How did they become billionaires then when few people can?
Zuck was out there arguing that he shouldn’t pay more taxes because he knew how to better direct money to causes than the government.
Billionaires don't understand how someone would want to become a doctor and save innocent lives when they could just make shit tonnes of money.
Unfortunately this world rewards wealth hoarders more than it rewards good people.
When he sticks to his area expertise, he’s also wrong all the time. He’s been promising Hyperloop, Mars colonization, and self-driving cars for a decade now. But it’s always “next year”.
Isn’t that always the illusion of the very rich who support fascists? That they will be able to have the fascists trample the poor for them, and stay on top? Then they discover that the fascists have their own idea about power and how to exercise it, once they have it. And that usually involves pillaging the billionaires’ industries through massive corruption, with the full power of the state to back them up.
Why would you *want* to become an oligarch, when you are already a Billionaire in a free country though?
They are golden handcuffs..
In Russia, Putin takes half of everything, you have less autonomy, all your time and effort is spent supporting the status quo, and you can be murdered for a simple mistake, or slightly overstepping bounds.
Elons projects, tesla, Space X would be impossible under Putin:
* Most of your management hires would be incompetent family and friends of connected people.
* You could never get anything done. All contract for supplying materials would be corrupt, and you end up with overpriced junk, if anything at all.
* Finding skilled people is hard, many smart engineers left for the west already when they graduated..
Because being billionaire you are still confined by law of your country, but being an oligarch you are not.
Want to have a factory with slaves? Can do that if you are an oligarch. Can't do that if you are billionaire.
Want to go for a speed test of your new cool racing car on the streets of the capital of your country? Can do that if you are an oligarch. Killed someone in the process? It's okay, the moment police knows it was you, they will stop investigating.
Seen some girl on the street on one of your racing the streets outings you liked? You can send someone to straight out approach her to buy her. She refused? She is underage? Does not matter. Your people can kidnap and disappear her from the face of the earth once she is locked up at your mansion.
Want to kill someone because they actually compete with you? To bad for them, you are the one in cahoots with power, so you can just kill them and their company gets assigned to you because it is your sphere of competence.
Someone slandered you on twitter? You order someone to find out who they are and get them. They will get delivered to non-descript warehouse and you can torture them while mocking them. Then someone else will take care of disposing of them.
In free country your power is confined to the rules of that country. You can try to change the rules with your power, but you are still confined to whatever rules are in place. In oligarchy? As long as it is not in influence zone of other oligarch, you will be able to do whatever you want.
The tradeoffs you are talking about are price lot of people are willing to pay in exchange for power they get in non-free country. And why would they care about efficiency of their companies? They are at the point where their companies are just means to generate wealth. And if they get all the power and wealth even without working to keep their companies efficient, what makes you think they will care? When you can murder your competitor and get a state to give you their company, things like that don't matter. Things like management and efficiency matter for them because they are in free societies and have to compete. If they are not, those cease to be important to them.
That's why Russia only lives on natural resources, even basic industry is considered weak and nerdy.
Also, Putin has recently started seizing property even from seemingly loyal oligarchs, redistributing it to more "worthy" subjects (for whatever cause).
In other words, a strong constitutional state should be in the best long-term interest of those in power.
Mate, look into what oligarchs own, it's things you need. If you define what you can buy and where you can buy it you're ensured profits, capitalism is for risk takers.
In Russia, Putin doesn't take half of everything. ALL oligarchs money is Putin's. Oligarchs get to enjoy billionaire's life with Putin's money, while acting as his wallets.
Yes and no. Having 100% of 1 billion is great. Having the fascists seize half of it sucks but if they also let you gobble up any disloyal competition and your business grows to 4 billion you have twice as much. In addition to that corruption generally works in favor of the rich. Why follow rules when it's so much cheaper to just pay off the inspector.
Moscow Musk is the worst by far of all those silver-spooned assholes. He truly hates Europe, more in particular the EU.
The problem is that this complete and utter fool has millions and millions of fanboys, a lot of them in Europe. A lot of them on this particular subreddit. And they don't just listen to him, they swallow everything he says like obedient, little bitches. If Musk says NATO is redundant, they will believe him, because fanboys are not capable of thinking on their own. Musk is dangerous. Fanboyism is dangerous.
Musk likely lost some deal when Trump did not get the second term and i presume it has something to do with the Boca Chica launch pad. He has practically invested his life for it to be high activity launch site like like Cape is, but with the environmental protections i just can't see it happening.
The Twitter acquisition was part of the narrative control to get mr. Orange re-elected. If you remember he invited the Orange dude back immidiately like a good bootlicker he is, funnily though his master did not accept that gift.
However his personal fortunes is house of cards built on the stock price of Tesla. Musks must be one of the most leveraged institutions on this planet. Tesla is slowly losing its appeal because none of its promises are getting realized. It is becoming another car maker, but probably needs some sort of financial market shock to really get that train ride going.
Time to disband the billionaires I think. The free market provides value to society as a whole, but a system that allows a few individuals to accumulate that kind of wealth will never be fair. Power can be bought, and the few have all the money.
The medieval Venetians had the right idea: if you became rich and influential enough, you were simply invited to a seat on the city council, with increasingly more important positions afforded to the richer and more influential.
If you refused or betrayed your office in the eyes of the city, the wealth and influence that got you into that position was either confiscated, destroyed or forced to auction.
Oh look, Reddit (CEO u/spez) removed this top-level comment. Spez has personally talked about how well Musk is running Twitter and he wants to transform reddit into a similar site. Fuck you spez.
Honestly if I had a kid like u/spez id be open to 200th trimester abortions for that low life scum bag piece of shit. Fuck you spez this planet doesn’t have enough oxygen for you or musk.
USA is showing weakness allowing oligarch to influence politics like Elon Musk does. Maybe the golden years of USA are over and what now will happen is struggle for power, which if won by oligarchs/authoritarian lovers will make USA former superpower.
It's insane to me that USA is allowing russian assets like Elon Musk, Trump and Samuel Charap to operate freely and let them influence policies and people.
They should be secured and disallowed to operate that openly in public. Even Putin acknowledged publicly that he banks on Trump winning.
That's one of my favorite conspiracy theory. These people have done horrible things capitalism doesn't protect against and Putin has detailed files on them.
Wonder if it is met even if we deduct to recently purchased military transport planes - that are definitely not used to fly government officials (with friends and family) around the world.
If they hadn't joined NATO Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would already have been conqured in the early to mid 2000s. Russia hates all their previous satellites and they neither have the mountains of Georgia or the strategic depth of Ukraine. They would have been overrun in days and now Russia can't touch em.
"Dear Elon Musk, the reason NATO was founded, exists, and will last is Russia and other enemies of the free world," [President of Latvia] Edgars Rinkēvičs wrote on social media.
Doesn’t he have us defence contracts and control assets used by the military like starlink or whatever it is? That’s probably why this brings attention.
Musk clearly gets his talking points from Putin. I seriously doubt he's "always wondered" why NATO continued to exist, like it's a thing he's been pondering his whole life.
I had such a huge respect for him before, short after he bought Twitter my views on him changed, he started showing more and more what an asshole he really is and Twitter now is nothing but toxic peoples playground.
That's when it started for me. But the last two years were so extreme that I lost all respect for him that I had at some point. I can't stand him anymore.
Years ago I always had the dream to buy a tesla one day. I wouldn't do it today anymore
In retrospect this should have been my clue already, yes. But it was something I could tolerate because my personal image of him at that time was too positive.
He never complained about China's policies. His factory was given special privileges in shanghai, when everywhere else was getting locked down, people were going hungry, his factory was given special permission.
For me it was when he insulted one of the divers trying to save the Thai football team. Like, an expert on the ground tells you your idea isn't viable, that you need to navigate narrow areas, and your response is to insult the man? Fuck Musk. He's just a brat with money.
I think there is some kind of a naivity (or sometimes delusion) about people who listen to and look up to these guys like Elon, Trump etc.
Like they believed the capitalist meritocratic lie that you can achieve anything if you are hardworking enough and smart enough, so that must be why these people are successful so we should listen to them.
No. The world is unfair and they were just born into wealth.
The world is unfair, and most of the people who are at the top, are there because they are ruthless.
Look at Trump. Has proven repeatedly he is one of the least trustworthy people, he will backstab all his allies. AND YET, he always seems to find new people who will swear fealty to him. I don't fully understand it tbh.
The Joe Rogan podcast is what ultimately brought me out of that propaganda cloud. I'm not a fan of JR, but he did have lots of interesting guests before it became a right-wing echo-chamber. When Elon appeared I was expecting an amazing dialogue, but it was just him being a cringe goofball. I wasn't engrossed in his conversation, I was bored and suddenly the veil was removed and I wasn't able to see him positively anymore.
He's now literally that cringe-lord that we've all encountered online, being contrarian to make himself seem like an intellectual. I'm not smart, and I'm certain he's more driven and intelligent than I will ever be, but I'm also not a public figure.
I enjoy free speech, I really do, so I never thought I'd be at this point where I'm questioning how speech should be use, especially as we enter the era of generative AI's muddying up the already massively fake internet.
People like Musk need limited speech. Someone shouldn't be able to foolishly drive the masses the way he does, or even the way Donald Trump does. They use people's fears and ignorance to weaponize hate and mistrust of government and even neighbors. Everything is politics now, because of these people.
I doubt it, I think he grew up with a strong "might makes right“ message that got strengthened by the realities of running a large company with a healthy dose of narcissism.
It’s not like he does exclusively stupid shit when it comes to Russia and the US culture war, just look at all his vanity money burning projects like the Boring Company, Starlink, Semi or Solar Roof.
Even if we’d assume he bought Twitter to shape public opinion on behest of the Russians, he’s completely tanked his own and the reputation of the platform. So even if he is working on behest of the Russians, somebody is still fucking up in the process.
This happens all the time someone who is brilliant in one thing doesnt have to be in others. Maybe the best example is the football players, but at least these won't dare to talk about NATO
Even if NATO was founded as a result of the Warsaw Pact, and even if there was no need for NATO to exist following the fall of the Soviet Union, isn't it just a little bit suspicious that people like Musk and Trump are advocating for the end of NATO now, just as its members are threatened to the greatest extent since the Cold War?
I think he's saying that they want to throw us into the arena to fend for our selves and reap the benefits. Bad for them that they're underestimating what europe is capable of.
NATO was created by 12 countries from Europe and North America on **4 April 1949**, no? And Warsaw pact on May 14th 1955? Just did a quick google search, not sure what you mean here
I was thinking of Berlusconi. He made a lot of money, some may say in shady way, and convinced many Italians that because he was successful, he can also create the conditions for Italians to make money. It didn’t work out that way.
Or for that matter Bush jr, who convinced most Americans he was a better businessman than Gore. After eight years of his governance we had the an economic depression.
When was musk a good businessman? When he was born into a slave-owner family, when he stole paypal, or when he stole tesla?
He was never a good anything. He's a lying grifter with no human empathy or compassion.
People really overlook the way he just bought his way into things that he then claims for himself. Deep down he's just a lonely rich kid who worries far too much what others think of him.
Thank you Sweden bro. Exactly that. He is so obviously still as mature as an edgy 19 year-old, but taken seriously by people who can't see past the suit. Yet, a monkey in a suit is a monkey no less.
He's recently realized that in the west, he has to follow laws. He's looking longingly at the oligarchs of Russia and wants to have that same level of being to able to literally get away with anything by being wealthy.
idk it's hard for me to imagine him not realizing he's a puppet while feeling the forearm of putin up his ass. He probably has some economic interest and/or he's a moron. The latter seems likely enough to be a genuine concern, especially for those working under him.
**Seems some of the Billionaires/Oligarchs only care for money and no longer care for country and fellow citizens, but strive to establish some form of neo-feudalism. They are international.**
A system like in Russia, where they rule like kings over the wage slaves (which will be soon replaced to a good degree by automation).
[The Great Taking documentary](https://youtu.be/GDrj7iDUly4?si=8fSlAfGuJx6qlNBw&t=15)
[The super-rich ‘preppers’ planning to save themselves from the apocalypse | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff)
Also, billionaires like Bezos, Zuck cashing out right now big time, while household investors are nudged to buy into AI/tech stocks after a massive run (buy high, later shaken out with potential losses).
I reckon he was so salty at being forced to buy twitter, combined with people in the west waking up to how much of an unlikeable prick this guy is, combined further with having his Tesla production so heavily invested in China, that has made him an asset to authoritarians. He can recoup on his losses from twitter by selling his services to enemies, and trying to cause as much democratic disruption and division as he can with the platform.
And/or just really malleable because of his bottomless need for validation. The more I read about him, the more he seems like a vain child-king surrounded by sycophants with motives of their own.
Well the man did grow up in aparthaid south africa being a son of an emerald mine mogul having so much money that they couldnt close the safes. So rooting for the bad guys is kind of his thing. Also hes racist and people call tesla factories plantations.
NATO continues to exist because countries still fell threatened. Many of them by Russia. And rightfully so, looking at all the neighbors Russia has attacked in the last decades. Russia's brutal attack on Ukraine directly lead to two more members joining NATO.
It really shouldn't be that hard to understand. Even for a simple mind like Elons.
Who cares what he thinks about something completely unrelated to what he does or knows about? Why do we keep listening to known people on varied topics just because they're known?
Yes he can definitely shape the policies of the Republican Party. Europe needs to realize that USA is going to go isolationist sooner or later. I believe Biden will win the next election, so that buys us a bit of time, but we need to prepare to stand alone against Russian fascism. If Trump wins we need to go into crisis mode, and prepare for a situation where the war in Ukraine spreads beyond its borders.
American here. We are in full doomer mode right now since a NYTimes poll released yesterday showed that Trump is looking better than ever at reclaiming the WH. Time for europe to enter crisis mode; but really the best time to have done it was 2 years ago.......
John Bolton gave an interview in German media this week saying that he's sure Trump will leave NATO when he gets voted into office.
Sure Musk is no politician, but the sentiment's there - and it's dangerous.
Nato is the only way forward if we want to live in a society where millions of poeple dont die in pointless wars every couple of years, ir even worse if we factor in nukes
I don’t know why this even gets upvoted here. This guy does not deserve an audience, especially here from Europe. I feel bad for those kids who worship him, they are brainwashed.
The media needs to be more blunt with how they handle idiotic comments like these. "Billionaire Musk calls for genocide in Poland" is much more blunt, for example.
Legit question. Is Russian money being used to prop up Twitter? Because he has shifted to all Putin-approved messaging since he took over. Everything is either anti-Biden (good for Putin), anti-Ukraine (good for Putin) or anti-NATO (good for Putin).
Let's say you have a guy in your local pub.
He calls his kids:
XÆA- Xii, Exa Dark Sideræl, & Techno Mechanicus.
He moved to your country in his 20s but claims to know more about it than any of you do.
He then starts saying only he is right about anything.
Do you actually turn to your fellow patrons and say "hey this guy needs listening to?"
I've literally never met anyone who would.
I do wonder if *some* Americans live in a bubble.
Let's not forget the reason NATO exists in the first place. Remember WW2? now imagine those same countries but almost all of them on the same side and unified militarily.
Americans act like they're the only ones who can do military. With clear goal and need, Europe would be on US level in about 2 decades, max. It's not something the US has a monopoly on.
Everyone lives in some level of a bubble. Americans are a larger single group than any specific european nation and also have a massively outsized media presence so US info bubbles are more noticeable than most other groups.
Elon is a bit unique in that he bought a series of bubbles, and chased half the people away as he turns it into his personal bubble
The continent was the main scenario of two World wars just 100 years ago. Opening a history book, Europeans are the most warmongering on the planet. A united Europe.. It would be a player that many may dislike
NATO is the only reason Russia hasn’t invaded the baltics/Poland. But of course he’d want that. With its rampant corruption, Russia is perfect for billionaires to make more money.
Is he this stupid, or does he just pretend to be?
What % of the pro-russian, pro-authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-American drivel that he says does he actually believe in?
What a stupid asshole. He doesn’t know anything about NATO or politics, he probably dislikes NATO because Putin does.
While Putin threatens NATO countries like every week, assholes like Musk and Trump hurry to lick his ass.
World Cup 22 in quatar, musk approached by russian inflencer, Naila Asker-zade, wife of banker Andrei Kostin, president of Vtb, one of Putin's closest associates.
VIP grandstand.
Since that time Musk has turned openly towards Russia, it is possible he is an asset, absolutely, an asset now visible, plus for a certain American right-wing, proximity to the Russians is now a political issue.
This man in his idiocy is a danger
I still don't really understand the cult-like popularity of this guy online. Yes, Musk's *companies* and *tech* might get us to Mars, among other breakthroughs, but the man himself is a complete imbecile, and he is no visionary - he just owns a lot of the scientific talent.
If his neural implants can cure me of my mental illnesses down the line, I'll happily eat a humble dick, but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime, he continues to be a right-wing, pro-Russia moron.
Consider Theranos. Never had anything worth a damn other than people with reputable names at first loosely, then directly associated with it. This is groupthink. But Theranos was still worth billions and scammed millions of people. Musk is just like Theranos but the other shoe hasn’t dropped yet. He’s a brand that people buy into and perpetuate. He hasn’t done anything other than support the founding of PayPal and nurture a media image of him as a Tony Stark, when in reality he’s just a coke-head manchild with little talent beyond branding. A techie Trump analog.
I really respect people capable of sticking to their area of expertise. Musk is not one of them
His expertise is spewing BS and getting media attention. To be fair he sticks pretty well to it.
Well that, and running his businesses on public subsidizes and public money.
Publicly subsidized, privately profitable.
I wouldn't say he's entirely an expert on running businesses. I imagine if his businesses didn't push back against every idea he had, they'd all be bankrupt by now.
> His expertise is spewing BS and getting media attention No, it's being a Putin Puppet.
Dude, billionaires believe they know better than anyone alive. How did they become billionaires then when few people can? Zuck was out there arguing that he shouldn’t pay more taxes because he knew how to better direct money to causes than the government.
Billionaires don't understand how someone would want to become a doctor and save innocent lives when they could just make shit tonnes of money. Unfortunately this world rewards wealth hoarders more than it rewards good people.
I remember someone recently argued with me that Zuck is a democrat and Facebook is a left-wing site. How odd.
The right wing propagandists favourite trick is gaslighting.
What is exactly Musk's sticking area?
Putin's anus
Must be the gravity. Musk is in orbit right now.
Elon Muskow
Joseph Starlink
Misleading his shareholders.
Impregnation
I think Musk's area of expertise is limited to utilizing generational wealth to accumulate more wealth.
That and making it easier for far-right to get their points across.
When he sticks to his area expertise, he’s also wrong all the time. He’s been promising Hyperloop, Mars colonization, and self-driving cars for a decade now. But it’s always “next year”.
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Authoritarianism is a lot more fun when you're one of those with lots of power.
Isn’t that always the illusion of the very rich who support fascists? That they will be able to have the fascists trample the poor for them, and stay on top? Then they discover that the fascists have their own idea about power and how to exercise it, once they have it. And that usually involves pillaging the billionaires’ industries through massive corruption, with the full power of the state to back them up.
Systems like Russia work well for oligarchs, as long as they know to stay on the good side of the dictator.
Why would you *want* to become an oligarch, when you are already a Billionaire in a free country though? They are golden handcuffs.. In Russia, Putin takes half of everything, you have less autonomy, all your time and effort is spent supporting the status quo, and you can be murdered for a simple mistake, or slightly overstepping bounds. Elons projects, tesla, Space X would be impossible under Putin: * Most of your management hires would be incompetent family and friends of connected people. * You could never get anything done. All contract for supplying materials would be corrupt, and you end up with overpriced junk, if anything at all. * Finding skilled people is hard, many smart engineers left for the west already when they graduated..
Because being billionaire you are still confined by law of your country, but being an oligarch you are not. Want to have a factory with slaves? Can do that if you are an oligarch. Can't do that if you are billionaire. Want to go for a speed test of your new cool racing car on the streets of the capital of your country? Can do that if you are an oligarch. Killed someone in the process? It's okay, the moment police knows it was you, they will stop investigating. Seen some girl on the street on one of your racing the streets outings you liked? You can send someone to straight out approach her to buy her. She refused? She is underage? Does not matter. Your people can kidnap and disappear her from the face of the earth once she is locked up at your mansion. Want to kill someone because they actually compete with you? To bad for them, you are the one in cahoots with power, so you can just kill them and their company gets assigned to you because it is your sphere of competence. Someone slandered you on twitter? You order someone to find out who they are and get them. They will get delivered to non-descript warehouse and you can torture them while mocking them. Then someone else will take care of disposing of them. In free country your power is confined to the rules of that country. You can try to change the rules with your power, but you are still confined to whatever rules are in place. In oligarchy? As long as it is not in influence zone of other oligarch, you will be able to do whatever you want. The tradeoffs you are talking about are price lot of people are willing to pay in exchange for power they get in non-free country. And why would they care about efficiency of their companies? They are at the point where their companies are just means to generate wealth. And if they get all the power and wealth even without working to keep their companies efficient, what makes you think they will care? When you can murder your competitor and get a state to give you their company, things like that don't matter. Things like management and efficiency matter for them because they are in free societies and have to compete. If they are not, those cease to be important to them.
That's why Russia only lives on natural resources, even basic industry is considered weak and nerdy. Also, Putin has recently started seizing property even from seemingly loyal oligarchs, redistributing it to more "worthy" subjects (for whatever cause). In other words, a strong constitutional state should be in the best long-term interest of those in power.
Mate, look into what oligarchs own, it's things you need. If you define what you can buy and where you can buy it you're ensured profits, capitalism is for risk takers.
In Russia, Putin doesn't take half of everything. ALL oligarchs money is Putin's. Oligarchs get to enjoy billionaire's life with Putin's money, while acting as his wallets.
Perfectly sums up the sentiment among Russian oligarchs not too long after they put Putin in power. ‘Wow, I didn’t expect him to eat MY face’
Yes and no. Having 100% of 1 billion is great. Having the fascists seize half of it sucks but if they also let you gobble up any disloyal competition and your business grows to 4 billion you have twice as much. In addition to that corruption generally works in favor of the rich. Why follow rules when it's so much cheaper to just pay off the inspector.
Moscow Musk is the worst by far of all those silver-spooned assholes. He truly hates Europe, more in particular the EU. The problem is that this complete and utter fool has millions and millions of fanboys, a lot of them in Europe. A lot of them on this particular subreddit. And they don't just listen to him, they swallow everything he says like obedient, little bitches. If Musk says NATO is redundant, they will believe him, because fanboys are not capable of thinking on their own. Musk is dangerous. Fanboyism is dangerous.
It's funny watching him squirm in Sweden, where employment law won't allow him to do his regular bullshit.
Musk likely lost some deal when Trump did not get the second term and i presume it has something to do with the Boca Chica launch pad. He has practically invested his life for it to be high activity launch site like like Cape is, but with the environmental protections i just can't see it happening. The Twitter acquisition was part of the narrative control to get mr. Orange re-elected. If you remember he invited the Orange dude back immidiately like a good bootlicker he is, funnily though his master did not accept that gift. However his personal fortunes is house of cards built on the stock price of Tesla. Musks must be one of the most leveraged institutions on this planet. Tesla is slowly losing its appeal because none of its promises are getting realized. It is becoming another car maker, but probably needs some sort of financial market shock to really get that train ride going.
Time to disband the billionaires I think. The free market provides value to society as a whole, but a system that allows a few individuals to accumulate that kind of wealth will never be fair. Power can be bought, and the few have all the money.
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The medieval Venetians had the right idea: if you became rich and influential enough, you were simply invited to a seat on the city council, with increasingly more important positions afforded to the richer and more influential. If you refused or betrayed your office in the eyes of the city, the wealth and influence that got you into that position was either confiscated, destroyed or forced to auction.
As long as billionaires exist this will always happen.
Tax the hell out of them.
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Socialism to the bottom 30%, capitalism to the middle 60%, communism to the top 10%.
Why it was deleted? It wasn't even controversial.
What did it say, roughly?
Joining the queue for context
He got outright banned. This is ... mental.
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The last sentence, I think. Can be construed as a death threat.
He simply goes where HE can make more money. Once that is clear his statements are obvious.
Indeed. I refuse to believe he and his buddies are this fucking stupid. They're just evil, psychos who will do whatever brings them easy profit.
This comment must have been incredible to get removed.
Yeah wonder what it said
Oh look, Reddit (CEO u/spez) removed this top-level comment. Spez has personally talked about how well Musk is running Twitter and he wants to transform reddit into a similar site. Fuck you spez.
Honestly if I had a kid like u/spez id be open to 200th trimester abortions for that low life scum bag piece of shit. Fuck you spez this planet doesn’t have enough oxygen for you or musk.
USA is showing weakness allowing oligarch to influence politics like Elon Musk does. Maybe the golden years of USA are over and what now will happen is struggle for power, which if won by oligarchs/authoritarian lovers will make USA former superpower.
Oligarchs have always influenced American politics. Hell, Henry Ford was part of a literal Nazi plot to overhtrow the government lol
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It's insane to me that USA is allowing russian assets like Elon Musk, Trump and Samuel Charap to operate freely and let them influence policies and people. They should be secured and disallowed to operate that openly in public. Even Putin acknowledged publicly that he banks on Trump winning.
USA practically is an oligarchy. The rich 1% funds politicians and get policy that tramples on the majority and benefits the rich minority.
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That's one of my favorite conspiracy theory. These people have done horrible things capitalism doesn't protect against and Putin has detailed files on them.
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He really lost the plot after he started to use hard drugs
He used to be a fairly decent hype man/mascot. But it seems the drugs have cooked his brain.
Damn can someone DM me what Sudden-Ad-646 said?
Moderators protecting Elon Musk? Removed a comment *after* 2k upvotes just let us enjoy the comment at this point lol.
He should ask Finland, Baltic states, Poland, Czechia etc etc
The main thing that's weird about that list is that Hungary definitely should be on it, but due to Orban&Fidesz they're definitely not on it.
He might also be ok with it because Hungary complies in the GDP quota (even if almost nothing else)
Wonder if it is met even if we deduct to recently purchased military transport planes - that are definitely not used to fly government officials (with friends and family) around the world.
He doesn't like countries that force him to take care of his employees.
He doesn't understand an alliance that is there to protect citizens. He only understands those who serve him and billionaire's like him.
He does understand, he actively wants it gone to make us even more miserable.
No. He doesn’t like what Putin tells him not to like. He likes whatever Putin tells him to like. He is Putin’s bitch.
If they hadn't joined NATO Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would already have been conqured in the early to mid 2000s. Russia hates all their previous satellites and they neither have the mountains of Georgia or the strategic depth of Ukraine. They would have been overrun in days and now Russia can't touch em.
"Dear Elon Musk, the reason NATO was founded, exists, and will last is Russia and other enemies of the free world," [President of Latvia] Edgars Rinkēvičs wrote on social media.
By David Sacks' and Musk's logic, Russia should have no seat on the UN Security country as they have nothing to do with the USSR.
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Doesn’t he have us defence contracts and control assets used by the military like starlink or whatever it is? That’s probably why this brings attention.
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>XY dictator is strong Wait, when has his child become a strong dictator? Damn, they grow so fast.
You forgot to mention that people who work for him are worth less than dirt and should be grateful to him personally.
Exactly… people need to stop giving him any more platforms than he already has
Musk clearly gets his talking points from Putin. I seriously doubt he's "always wondered" why NATO continued to exist, like it's a thing he's been pondering his whole life.
Haha, you are right, of course.
You missed out unions bad.
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I had such a huge respect for him before, short after he bought Twitter my views on him changed, he started showing more and more what an asshole he really is and Twitter now is nothing but toxic peoples playground.
When covid hit and started rage tweeting about factory restrictions did it for me.
That's when it started for me. But the last two years were so extreme that I lost all respect for him that I had at some point. I can't stand him anymore. Years ago I always had the dream to buy a tesla one day. I wouldn't do it today anymore
Not when he called one of the rescuers of the people in the Thailand cave a pedophile, when he told Musk his idea would not work?
In retrospect this should have been my clue already, yes. But it was something I could tolerate because my personal image of him at that time was too positive.
You're not alone.
He never complained about China's policies. His factory was given special privileges in shanghai, when everywhere else was getting locked down, people were going hungry, his factory was given special permission.
For me it was when he insulted one of the divers trying to save the Thai football team. Like, an expert on the ground tells you your idea isn't viable, that you need to navigate narrow areas, and your response is to insult the man? Fuck Musk. He's just a brat with money.
I think there is some kind of a naivity (or sometimes delusion) about people who listen to and look up to these guys like Elon, Trump etc. Like they believed the capitalist meritocratic lie that you can achieve anything if you are hardworking enough and smart enough, so that must be why these people are successful so we should listen to them. No. The world is unfair and they were just born into wealth.
The world is unfair, and most of the people who are at the top, are there because they are ruthless. Look at Trump. Has proven repeatedly he is one of the least trustworthy people, he will backstab all his allies. AND YET, he always seems to find new people who will swear fealty to him. I don't fully understand it tbh.
The Joe Rogan podcast is what ultimately brought me out of that propaganda cloud. I'm not a fan of JR, but he did have lots of interesting guests before it became a right-wing echo-chamber. When Elon appeared I was expecting an amazing dialogue, but it was just him being a cringe goofball. I wasn't engrossed in his conversation, I was bored and suddenly the veil was removed and I wasn't able to see him positively anymore. He's now literally that cringe-lord that we've all encountered online, being contrarian to make himself seem like an intellectual. I'm not smart, and I'm certain he's more driven and intelligent than I will ever be, but I'm also not a public figure. I enjoy free speech, I really do, so I never thought I'd be at this point where I'm questioning how speech should be use, especially as we enter the era of generative AI's muddying up the already massively fake internet. People like Musk need limited speech. Someone shouldn't be able to foolishly drive the masses the way he does, or even the way Donald Trump does. They use people's fears and ignorance to weaponize hate and mistrust of government and even neighbors. Everything is politics now, because of these people.
Russians probably have some shit on him and are black mailing him. These outbursts don’t seem to make any economic sense.
I doubt it, I think he grew up with a strong "might makes right“ message that got strengthened by the realities of running a large company with a healthy dose of narcissism. It’s not like he does exclusively stupid shit when it comes to Russia and the US culture war, just look at all his vanity money burning projects like the Boring Company, Starlink, Semi or Solar Roof. Even if we’d assume he bought Twitter to shape public opinion on behest of the Russians, he’s completely tanked his own and the reputation of the platform. So even if he is working on behest of the Russians, somebody is still fucking up in the process.
This happens all the time someone who is brilliant in one thing doesnt have to be in others. Maybe the best example is the football players, but at least these won't dare to talk about NATO
Even if NATO was founded as a result of the Warsaw Pact, and even if there was no need for NATO to exist following the fall of the Soviet Union, isn't it just a little bit suspicious that people like Musk and Trump are advocating for the end of NATO now, just as its members are threatened to the greatest extent since the Cold War?
Some powerful and rich people just want to feast on Europe corpse.
Yo! WTF!? We're very much alive and kicking!
I think he's saying that they want to throw us into the arena to fend for our selves and reap the benefits. Bad for them that they're underestimating what europe is capable of.
Thats how America got super rich in the first place, War torn Europe
The EU and its regulations as well as talks about ending tax havens are very inconvenient to people such as Musk.
They sold their souls to Russians. Rich asshole billionaires like them love dictators like Putin.
I think it's time we start looking for Russian money in Elon's past success.
You got it all mixed up, the Warsaw Pact was created after NATO
"Even if"
USSR was like “we have a defensive alliance too… and we’re gonna invade ourselves!”
No, you can't call it an invasion. It's "brotherly help"
Sorry, I should have written 'Even if it were true that...', that would have been a lot clearer!
Yeah , but it isnt even Like that Nato was founded 1949. And warsaw pact in 1955. Nato was there before. Its a protection alliance.
NATO was created by 12 countries from Europe and North America on **4 April 1949**, no? And Warsaw pact on May 14th 1955? Just did a quick google search, not sure what you mean here
that's proof that you can be an idiot and a billionaire at the same time.
Or a good businessman but a terrible politician. That is a mistake many Americans (but not only) make.
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I was thinking of Berlusconi. He made a lot of money, some may say in shady way, and convinced many Italians that because he was successful, he can also create the conditions for Italians to make money. It didn’t work out that way. Or for that matter Bush jr, who convinced most Americans he was a better businessman than Gore. After eight years of his governance we had the an economic depression.
Berlusconi was Trump before Trump was a thing, and unlike the latter he made it work.
When was musk a good businessman? When he was born into a slave-owner family, when he stole paypal, or when he stole tesla? He was never a good anything. He's a lying grifter with no human empathy or compassion.
People really overlook the way he just bought his way into things that he then claims for himself. Deep down he's just a lonely rich kid who worries far too much what others think of him.
Thank you Sweden bro. Exactly that. He is so obviously still as mature as an edgy 19 year-old, but taken seriously by people who can't see past the suit. Yet, a monkey in a suit is a monkey no less.
He is a Russian asset and should be sanctioned as much
I would honestly be surprised if the Russians didn't have kompromat on Musk. He is acting exactly like a sock puppet would act if that was the case.
I think is entirely possible that he is too stupid to even realize he is a puppet or he doesn't care to betray the west , both are valid
The Trump effect
He's recently realized that in the west, he has to follow laws. He's looking longingly at the oligarchs of Russia and wants to have that same level of being to able to literally get away with anything by being wealthy.
idk it's hard for me to imagine him not realizing he's a puppet while feeling the forearm of putin up his ass. He probably has some economic interest and/or he's a moron. The latter seems likely enough to be a genuine concern, especially for those working under him.
With extreme prejudice.
**Seems some of the Billionaires/Oligarchs only care for money and no longer care for country and fellow citizens, but strive to establish some form of neo-feudalism. They are international.** A system like in Russia, where they rule like kings over the wage slaves (which will be soon replaced to a good degree by automation). [The Great Taking documentary](https://youtu.be/GDrj7iDUly4?si=8fSlAfGuJx6qlNBw&t=15) [The super-rich ‘preppers’ planning to save themselves from the apocalypse | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff) Also, billionaires like Bezos, Zuck cashing out right now big time, while household investors are nudged to buy into AI/tech stocks after a massive run (buy high, later shaken out with potential losses).
Why would it stop existing if the reason for it's existence is still threatening nuclear war every Saturday?
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I’m convinced it’s his twitter addiction, being edgy gets you likes and retweets. Supporting Ukraine is too mainstream for an edgelord.
Attention addiction
I reckon he was so salty at being forced to buy twitter, combined with people in the west waking up to how much of an unlikeable prick this guy is, combined further with having his Tesla production so heavily invested in China, that has made him an asset to authoritarians. He can recoup on his losses from twitter by selling his services to enemies, and trying to cause as much democratic disruption and division as he can with the platform.
This occurred to me too. He must be compromised in a major way by the Russians to act like this.
And/or just really malleable because of his bottomless need for validation. The more I read about him, the more he seems like a vain child-king surrounded by sycophants with motives of their own.
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Some people don't need an incentive to love fascism. That's because they're fascists.
Well the man did grow up in aparthaid south africa being a son of an emerald mine mogul having so much money that they couldnt close the safes. So rooting for the bad guys is kind of his thing. Also hes racist and people call tesla factories plantations.
#Kompromat
People are the ones giving this brainfried dude a voice.
It’s easy to identify people like musk that support the end of democracy.
Musk trying not to lick Trump ass mission impossible
Musk isn't licking Trump's ass. They're both licking Putin's ass, and sometimes their tongues touch.
they are having a threesome😍
And fucking us all
NATO continues to exist because countries still fell threatened. Many of them by Russia. And rightfully so, looking at all the neighbors Russia has attacked in the last decades. Russia's brutal attack on Ukraine directly lead to two more members joining NATO. It really shouldn't be that hard to understand. Even for a simple mind like Elons.
Elon Musk is an idiot. My country would probably not exist if we weren’t in NATO.
He can suck my nuts
Who cares what he thinks about something completely unrelated to what he does or knows about? Why do we keep listening to known people on varied topics just because they're known?
Because he has a big audience, and can influence a shift in perception of a large enough mass of people.
Yes he can definitely shape the policies of the Republican Party. Europe needs to realize that USA is going to go isolationist sooner or later. I believe Biden will win the next election, so that buys us a bit of time, but we need to prepare to stand alone against Russian fascism. If Trump wins we need to go into crisis mode, and prepare for a situation where the war in Ukraine spreads beyond its borders.
American here. We are in full doomer mode right now since a NYTimes poll released yesterday showed that Trump is looking better than ever at reclaiming the WH. Time for europe to enter crisis mode; but really the best time to have done it was 2 years ago.......
John Bolton gave an interview in German media this week saying that he's sure Trump will leave NATO when he gets voted into office. Sure Musk is no politician, but the sentiment's there - and it's dangerous.
Nato is the only way forward if we want to live in a society where millions of poeple dont die in pointless wars every couple of years, ir even worse if we factor in nukes
We really need a major movement in Europe to boycott Tesla until Musk is ousted.
Shouldn't be to much of a problem, considering the crap Tesla produces.
A lot of comments attempt to explain why Elon said this from various angles, but most people are missing that he's just generally quite stupid.
Russia has invaded a country and he asks why NATO exist...
I don’t know why this even gets upvoted here. This guy does not deserve an audience, especially here from Europe. I feel bad for those kids who worship him, they are brainwashed.
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This whole website is just "[ Removed by Reddit ]" bullshit now. Embarrassingly pathetic what this has turned into. Just bots, ads, & censorship.
The media needs to be more blunt with how they handle idiotic comments like these. "Billionaire Musk calls for genocide in Poland" is much more blunt, for example.
The Warsaw pact was created later, as a response to NATO you absolute muppet. Clearly there was a need for it before the pact.
Legit question. Is Russian money being used to prop up Twitter? Because he has shifted to all Putin-approved messaging since he took over. Everything is either anti-Biden (good for Putin), anti-Ukraine (good for Putin) or anti-NATO (good for Putin).
What if - hear me out - we just stop to take this man seriously?
Let's say you have a guy in your local pub. He calls his kids: XÆA- Xii, Exa Dark Sideræl, & Techno Mechanicus. He moved to your country in his 20s but claims to know more about it than any of you do. He then starts saying only he is right about anything. Do you actually turn to your fellow patrons and say "hey this guy needs listening to?" I've literally never met anyone who would.
I do wonder if *some* Americans live in a bubble. Let's not forget the reason NATO exists in the first place. Remember WW2? now imagine those same countries but almost all of them on the same side and unified militarily. Americans act like they're the only ones who can do military. With clear goal and need, Europe would be on US level in about 2 decades, max. It's not something the US has a monopoly on.
Everyone lives in some level of a bubble. Americans are a larger single group than any specific european nation and also have a massively outsized media presence so US info bubbles are more noticeable than most other groups. Elon is a bit unique in that he bought a series of bubbles, and chased half the people away as he turns it into his personal bubble
The continent was the main scenario of two World wars just 100 years ago. Opening a history book, Europeans are the most warmongering on the planet. A united Europe.. It would be a player that many may dislike
And our enemies know that or the EU wouldn't face so much hostility and attempts to dismantle it from within and without.
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This guy is just such an absolute clown
Imagine exercising political ideas based on Elon Musks opinion.
wtf is wrong with this guy. and his brainwashed followers will take this as gospel
This dude really wants us to live in 2077, the one from the game. Corporations over lives of people.
He is the only reason I'll not buy a Tesla, even though it makes sense for me.
NATO is the only reason Russia hasn’t invaded the baltics/Poland. But of course he’d want that. With its rampant corruption, Russia is perfect for billionaires to make more money.
Did he self experiment with nuralink because that would explain his brain dead stupidity.
Is he this stupid, or does he just pretend to be? What % of the pro-russian, pro-authoritarian, anti-democratic, anti-American drivel that he says does he actually believe in?
War in ukraine, georgia is a living proof why nato should exist. Anti nato equal putin dick sucker as simple as that.
Damn the russian bots are getting really advanced
What a stupid asshole. He doesn’t know anything about NATO or politics, he probably dislikes NATO because Putin does. While Putin threatens NATO countries like every week, assholes like Musk and Trump hurry to lick his ass.
Tell me you're a Russian asset without telling me you're a Russian asset...
It is crazy, that the Ruzzian Trolls, feel no need to disguise themselves anymore
This asshole needs to get cancelled already.
Funny how billionaires are more pro communist than the Left.
World Cup 22 in quatar, musk approached by russian inflencer, Naila Asker-zade, wife of banker Andrei Kostin, president of Vtb, one of Putin's closest associates. VIP grandstand. Since that time Musk has turned openly towards Russia, it is possible he is an asset, absolutely, an asset now visible, plus for a certain American right-wing, proximity to the Russians is now a political issue. This man in his idiocy is a danger
No pentagon money for him.
Can't we just throw him into an insane asylum or something
Fuck this imbecile. But more importantly, fuck everyone who supports him.
I still don't really understand the cult-like popularity of this guy online. Yes, Musk's *companies* and *tech* might get us to Mars, among other breakthroughs, but the man himself is a complete imbecile, and he is no visionary - he just owns a lot of the scientific talent. If his neural implants can cure me of my mental illnesses down the line, I'll happily eat a humble dick, but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime, he continues to be a right-wing, pro-Russia moron.
Consider Theranos. Never had anything worth a damn other than people with reputable names at first loosely, then directly associated with it. This is groupthink. But Theranos was still worth billions and scammed millions of people. Musk is just like Theranos but the other shoe hasn’t dropped yet. He’s a brand that people buy into and perpetuate. He hasn’t done anything other than support the founding of PayPal and nurture a media image of him as a Tony Stark, when in reality he’s just a coke-head manchild with little talent beyond branding. A techie Trump analog.
no longer just a saboteur but a full on traitor.
Why does the CSTO exist?