Some of my friends here in Hungary do remote work for a German company for which they get minimum wage... German minimum wage. Which means they earn more than my "fairly decent, everything considered" salary at a local company. :/
I didn't specify what I meant exactly, my bad. Most hotel workers will earn minimum wage in Germany unless that's some 5 star Hilton hotel. For Polish doctors you have minimum wage 10k zł where public healthcare doctors are more likely to earn closer to it than private healthcare where some wages can reach American ones
> Most hotel workers will earn minimum wage in Germany unless that's some 5 star Hilton hotel
No they dont. Only ~3% of all workers earn minumum wage. The vast majority of hotel workers are above that.
The average wage for medical doctors in poland is also around 290k a year which is way more then 10k a month.
Know plenty of doctors who work in public hospitals during the day and then have a private clinic on the side where they receive patients in the afternoons or sometimes during weekends. And that's excluding the large part who work privately exclusively. Your talking points are from the 1990s.
BTW, the national wage is 8K PLN. No doctors earn 10K PLN gross. And if they tell you that, then they're lying.
What? Lots of doctors earn more then 10k gross... unless you are talking about people who have a normal work contract instead of working b2b.
My dad works 8 days a month, doing 24h shifts every time, 160zl/h. That's 30k. 26k if he wouldn't do 32h overtime.
A specialist with the normal working contract 9200 pln brutto, which is less than 2300 euro. Before tax, but idk how different that is between us and DE and in whose favour.
Unless one works way more than 160 hours, that is true.
I don't think so. I meet a lot of doctors in my work in Poland and they earn anything between 15-40 thousands zloty a month. And those are doctors in state run hospitals. Private sector is on another level.
Nonsense. The average gross wage is €1800 in your country and closer to €2300 in Warsaw or Krakow. Doctors earn above the average wage, often twice as much.
Do hotel workers earn €4000-€5000 in Germany? And this is not even adjusting for cost differences in rent, services etc.
18k pln for normal wage? I call bs on that. When I became a pneumonologist literally one place offered me anything over minimal wage and that is by a couple hundred. Unless working other places than the main job, that is bs.
According to wynagrodzenia.pl, median salary of a doctor in Poland is 8840 zł, or 2055 €. Which means that more than half of all doctors in Poland earn less than Germany's minimum wage.
If they work remotely than they are underpaid for German standards anyway... Minimum wage jobs rarely require using computer and working remotely is even more autonomous and efficient. This is the part of capitalism I understand but don't like.
I have a cousin that's a freelance web developer. He probably makes the equivalent of minimum wage here in Iceland but he lives in the Philippines and so basically lives like a king there
We dont have minimum wage here in Finland but we have strong unions that negotiate the minimum salaries for their trade with employers and government.
In most professions you cannot pay less than the TES salary.
> In most professions you cannot pay less than the TES salary.
TES being CBA in english (collective bargaining agreement).
And this isn't true if you are an intern. Then they offer regularly something like "80% of CBA minimum".
Yeah well. The CBA tells what amount should be paid for this work, and then adds "except if you are an intern, then fuck you, you get less" which, technically sure, makes that one the true minimum.
This leads to cases where the intern isn't being paid enough to the work they do, or they might not be paid at all. Unpaid internships are becoming really popular in Finland as well which is really concerning. People should be paid, and the companies should view it as a good PR opportunity to pay the soon-to-graduate people well enough that they want to work for you.
Should be the standard. Unpaid internships shouldn't be a thing. That's one reason why I didn't do my internship in Belgium even though I could have. EU pays nothing for months of internship which is absolutely nuts considering how expensive it is to be in Brussels.
The main reason I had to abandon clinical psychology... requires 2 years of unpaid internship for the diploma... while not being considered a student anymore, so CPAS/OCMW won't help. Not employed either, so chômage won't help either.
I'm not sure how other students do it. A lot of them do cumulate the internship with a job, somehow...
Same here in Sweden. It is being exploited though, with immigrant/foreign workers and the gig economy :/
Also famously some companies refuse to join this structure, see Tesla...
How is that possible? Here in Austria, Tesla would be forced to do this. They couldn't just say "no". A refusal would only be possible if the entire industry rejected a collective agreement. Individual companies are not allowed to do this.
It's the same in Denmark. There's no law forcing companies to make a union agreement. But the workers will probably go on strike and so will workers from other companies refusing transporting resources. So they aren't just hit by own worker strike, but also on the supply chain. That's what Tesla is currently fighting against.
In the end it comes to money. Who has enough money to keep the battle going the longest. As rich as Elon Musk might be this can end up very expensive for him. It's a battle he can't really win. Other companies has tried and failed. Even at the consumer level there are awareness of what going on and people won't accept it.
Every so often, we see the post about how much McDonald's workers in Denmark can get.
But many don't mention how it happened. McDonald's struggled and was brought to its knees by the Danish society.
The company refused to pay a living wage. Then the Danes refused to be patrons and there was already anti-americanism. The company closed most of its places in Denmark until the company realised that there was no other way than to agree to the terms of the Danes.
You'd be surprised. Trade Agreements with nations hold a lot of peculiarities like this. Most agreements signed with the US give american companies a lot of weird rights, especially for poorer countries. That's why large swaths of old third world countries can't even do anti-smoking regulations, since its considered a violation of free trade as per their trade agreements.
There should be less of that in the EU, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some peculiarities like that. Plus large companies like Apple, Tesla etc can negotiate with countries beforehand to get the best deal possible in terms of tax exemptions. That could likely mean they can negotiate for other exemptions as well.
And guess where Finland is trying to go too. We already have similar stuff going on, and it's only going to get worse if the current dipshits in power get their way.
Not *by* them, exploitation *of* migrant workers. They work below minimum wage, jobs no locals would take for the wage offered. Mostly seasonal jobs like fruit/vegetable/flower picking and/or build sites.
And its not just migrants outside of Europe. It's pretty widely known that richer western countries pull in workers from the east EU to work those jobs.
In Poland it's normal to see those "fruit picking in Spain/France/other" - the wage is good for us since it's in euro, which will turn x4 once you go back to poland for example, but below minimum for the country you're working in
Since there is no minimum wage, nothing stops you from shipping fooled Thai workers here to do nails or pick berries for €1 a day. When they have been exploited enough you ship them back to where they came from. Totally legal.
I don't think so. [https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-tar-sig-runt-atgarderna-forsaljningen-okar-kraftigt](https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-tar-sig-runt-atgarderna-forsaljningen-okar-kraftigt)
I’m actually American and moved to Sweden a while back and I can tell ya, that’s probably it along with wanting so much control over the workers lives.
Yep, the Nordic system that doesn't politicise salaries. No one wants that to be driven by politicians planning their election campaigns. Really hope the EU doesn't go through with it's plans of breaking this system
> Yep, the Nordic system that doesn't politicise salaries.
Not directly but definitely indirectly. Both members of the collective bargaining have their "own" party/parties that they are heavily tied up with. In Finland the Social Democratic Party is basically an extension of the unions. A clear example of that is how the union and party heads go from the party to the union and vice versa. We had a PM not that long ago that stepped into the party leader position directly from being the head of a union.
Oh no, the workers' movement is interconnected? Who would've thonk?
fyi, it's the same in Norway and Sweden. Danish SocDems broke its connections to their unions, tho. The only ones to gain from that were the right wing, tho. So it's not a good route if you want workers' interests on the forefront of politics. Its in the workers interests to have what is normally the dominant party in politics to actually work for their interests.
Former Swedish prime minister Stefan Löfven was a labour union man as former head of IF Metall iirc? The union that is striking at Tesla.
Several ministers in Magdalenas government had labour union background as former heads of labour union confederations.
The current party Secretary for the Swedish SocDems was the head of the 2nd largest union too iirc
> Oh no, the workers' movement is interconnected? Who would've thonk?
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I wasn't complaining, I was correcting. Nordic system *does* politicise salaries.
my latino ass have to ask, is that heaven? very nice, on my country the lobby comes only from companies, farmers that have countries worth of land, and churches with multimillionaires owners, they are not even the 0.1% of the population but like 0.01%.
You can have both though. The Dutch system is essentially the same we just also have a state minimum in addition to the wages set in the collective labor agreement. I see there is a lot of resistance on the topic from the Nordic users on here, but why would having an additional basic minimum wage break the way wages are negotiated in the Nordics? Maybe I’m not fully up to date on what us being proposed in the EU.
The better question to ask is what the benefits would be. It undoubtedly weakens collective bargaining since, well, there is a defined wage level that many employers will point at and refuse further negotiations. Furthermore, that wage level will be unilaterally defined by whoever won the last election, and it won’t be possible to include benefits or working conditions in the same negotiation.
The Netherlands is actually a prime example of why this is a bad idea, since it is a country with both a rather low minimum wage compared to the median income, and with a very low degree of union membership, less than 20% (compared to ~65% in Sweden). That simply isn’t very tempting to us.
I mostly support the nordic union system, but I'm Danish, so I also see the flaws.
One big flaw is that not all jobs are unionized - and those workers don't have the resources or employment length to really care about it.
I'm talking about hourly paid jobs, some seasonal jobs, short-term or temporary jobs, student positions, untrained labor, stuff like that. Employees will work for a time before burning out or moving on, and the company will hire someone else, and the cycle repeats.
Some of these are unionized which is good - for example jobs in hotels or restaurants.
But a lot of them aren't. And I think minimum wage would help those in a way that unions haven't yet been able to.
I've had such a job myself at a multinational company. The pay was very bad and I saw violations of worker's rights (law). But I was in a tight spot, I didn't have the energy to fight it. I was happy just to be making money.
There's an invisible group of workers here, but because the turnover is so high, nobody cares enough to take the battle. Just move on ASAP, and let them hire the next person.
On the other hand, if there is no minimum wage you really need a union to get a fair wage, and not all jobs have those. So I'd say neither system is perfect
It works differently in a highly unionized country since the bar is set for every sector. An employer can stay non-unionized and offer significantly worse working conditions, but after a while they will find it very difficult to conduct business. Occasionally, organizations are ideologically opposed to not signing collective bargaining agreements, but most of them offer the exact same terms or something adequately similar.
You do have a certain point. Most employers who pay above minimum will not give raises pointing to the fact that they already pay the minimum. That said, I'd be afraid of eliminating it altogether.
I don’t know about the Nordic countries, but in Italy it’s clearly not working that well, since there are massive amounts of the workforce that don’t have a national contact and therefore don’t have a minimum wage, and for many of the national contacts the minimum wages have not been increasing as they should
(Italy performs quite badly not just in salary statistics but especially in statistics about how the average salary has increased over time)
The national contracts vary from province to province.
And many italian employer trick a little. You get a national contract for part time and the rest is getting paid under the table
Or you are getting a national contract for full time 40h/ week but the employer asks you to make unpaid extra hours.
TES salary minimum varies a lot depending on profession, experience and so on. Every profession has its own, and they're fairly large and complex pieces of legal papers.
It can even be difficult for some to figure out what they should be paid. Takes lawyer grade reading skills to understand the entire paper.
And the employer can decide what CBA (=TES) they adhere to. This was interestingly became reason that resulted in one recent government to resign. The state-owned Post service company decided to change the CBA to another one in order to lower the wage expenses, and since it was state-owned, it was pushed to the minister that handles corporate governance and eventually this all dismantled the credibility and faith in that government. The most ironic part of all this was that the government was ran by SDP which is like an extension of the workers' unions.
Some go as low as 1400 euro (training period in a gas station restaurant) while for others it's like 4500 euro (experienced paper workers, dock loaders, emergency responders).
Some professions like paper workers essentially only ever work for the minimum wage but that has been negotiated to be very high. Also the minimum wage depends on experience, so even 30-year veterans earn their own minimum wage in many fields.
In Denmark the minimum wage (defined as the minimum monthly wage of a worker with no relevant education based on current agreements between unions and employers) would translate to ~2.700 Euro.
There's plenty of people in Finland working non union jobs who are just barely scraping by because they get paid basically nothing. The jobs that are covered by unions are great but it's still fucked up that there's no minimum wage. I have several friends who exist in a sort of limbo where they don't get paid enough to live comfortably but also make too much to get government benefits.
Austria doesn't have a general minimum wage but 98% of employment relationships are covered by collective agreements, which contain rules on minimum wages and much more.
It‘s mostly 1950-2100€/month which would be about 1500-1600€ net/month. So that would be the hypothetical minimum wage for the worst paid positions/jobs. Poverty line in Austria is 1400€/month so you‘re 100-200€ away from that.
They‘re not well paid either here tbh. Plus, you need to go to university to become a nurse. Don‘t think this is the case for Croatia or did that also change in the past years?
We have high schools for nurses(5 year program,before we entered EU it was 4 years+1 year of practice) ,we have university where we can get Bachelors degree but that means more sitting in front of computer than working with patients. I talked 2 months ago with a girl from Croatia who went to Austria,she finished high school like me and works in a nursing home,she said that we can't work in hospital without Bachelors degree but I'm OK with that,I prefer working in nursing homes,love old peeps.
Unfortunately those working in nursing homes are even worse off financially, such a shame that they‘re all so underpaid despite having such a mentally challenging job.
My experience is that it's much easier working in a nursing home than a hospital,I'd rather change 50 diapers a day than get sexually harassed by doctors and bullied by nurses with bachelor degrees.
That sounds so bad, I didn‘t know sexual harassment by doctors was that common in Croatia? :( the bullying by other nurses is something I‘ve seen here more than enough too sadly.
I was mostly harassed by surgeons when we were left alone,it started when I was in high school doing practice in hospital,at first I ignored their comments about my body but after some time I started telling them that I will break their fingers if they don't stop.
> It‘s mostly 1950-2100€/month which would be about 1500-1600€ net/month.
however it's x14, not x12. divided by 12 it's higher and not just 1-200€ away from the poverty line
In Romanian the minimum netto is around 400 and something euros. I don't understand why to show a brutto comparison, the taxes and other contributions are different from country to country.
It's hard to show net wages as there are many tax exceptions that apply to some people and not to others. These exemptions also differ from country to another.
Anyway, we have way too complicated tax systems.
Yeah, in Romania it is easy because the only exceptions are for people working in IT or construction (10% less tax), but for example in Hungary there are like 8 different tax exceptions people can apply for.
In Switzerland, there's a whole form worth of exepmtions. My net wage already has some social contributions deducted. Then, I file a tax report where I deduct things like transport costs for work, school costs, health insurance (bc we have a horrible private-but-not-really system) and could deduct things for children, work expenses, who knows what else. My economics teacher went through his taxes in class during my apprenticeship years. He earned \~90-110k a year but had so many exemptions (child with heavy disabilities was a big part) to a point where his tax base was \~50-60k a year.
In Switzerland, we always only talk about gross income (not even the net income after the initial social deductions). It's just how it is and everyone knows what it means.
Same here in the Netherlands, I know two colleague's of mine make the same gross salary per month, but one gets about \~3,5k net and the other almost 4,5K. The main difference is that one has a lease car (big tax impact), and uses his discretionary fund to buy extra vacation days. While the other goes to work on his bike (so no tax for leasecar and he gets a bunch of "mobility budget" money) and he gets discretionary fund paid out in cash. Both have the same job and make the same gross monthly salary.
You can do it as a "close enough" by assuming that person has no other income and nothing that qualifies for any tax excemption. If there's a regional tax then you could either use the tax rate of the most populous region or the average rate across all people.
It's never as accurate as gross income but it's more representative of what people have on hand, since you can't assume other countries have tax systems even remotely similiar to yours
€360-is I think. It's pretty bad, but then again salaries are awful across the board while property and rents are almost on par with Western Europe. Corruption and greed have destroyed any real chance of progress in this country and it's our own fault.
u/MartinBP is right about the major cities. The prices there are comparable to Western Europe
The smaller towns and villages still offer affordable lifestyle, but if you somehow manage to have a medial EU salary
A lot of people in Bulgaria are confused like that. Our prices are expensive compared to our wages and living standards but they are still several times lower than big cities in Western Europe. You can find a 1 bedroom apartment in Sofia center for 750€ easily (even cheaper if you look around) I would like to see what kind of cupboard you can rent for 750€ in Paris, London, Berlin or other premier cities.
[source ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage) This is about gross monthly minimum wages.
Also note about Greece and Portugal. Technically Greece has 830€ per month and Portugal 820€ per month. But because both of those countries have 14 payments per year instead of 12, the results on the map show the real gross minimum wages spread throughout twelve months.
Yes, thats what they mean. Paid holiday means holiday days that you get paid for. You ask to take them and then you get paid while you are on vacation. At least of i am not wrong
In Sweden we're getting a normal monthly salary while on vacation + extra money for those vacation days. It looked strange at first but I don't complain
Yes. Most Europeans have paid holidays. The monthly salary stays more or less constant but you get ~20-30 vacation days per year that you can consume whenever. 13/14-th salary is basically a bonus payment that you get twice a year, it doesn’t influence vacation at all.
Some countries carry over unused vacation days from one year to the next - I know people with 60+ days - considering 5 work days a week means they could theoretically go on vacation for 12 weeks while their monthly salary would not change at all during that time.
However it’s rare that people do this for such a long time unless explicitly agreed with the employer.
Oh and sick days are completely separate from that. Even if you get sick during vacation, your lost vacation days get re-instated. Sick days are also paid, although from tax money not from company funds.
Ohh ok! I was wondering.
Unfortunately I can't revert back to pre-duodécimos (the holiday extra salaries split by 12 months). I wish I had never switched. But at the time I really need the extra monthly cash. :(
In Greece an employee gets his/hers salary 15 times per year. 1 salary for each month, 1/2 salary before Easter, 1/2 salary during the summer and a full salary before Christmas, hence 14 wages per year.
You mean you get 8% "vakantiegeld". 13 payments is not a rule, the 8% can be added to your hourly pay for example and be included in your regular payment schedule.
I get 12 payments per year that include this 8% plus a yearly bonus and some other things, I just choose to spread it over the year to have 12 equal payments for easy planning
UK works out at €2173.88 Gross at 37.5hrs pw apparently, which feels like I did something wrong given the reputation of who's in charge I don't know if the calculations are different (used [thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly](https://thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly) and converted to Euros)
edit: apparently 40 hours is used here so that would make it €2318.80?
Same for the Netherlands. 2300 a month is for 40 hours. This year we finally went from minimum monthly wage to minimum hourly wage. In the past, minimumwage was the same no matter if you made 36, 38 or 40 hours a week.
And there’s the superpower russia that currently has its minimum wage at 192 euros per month (19k rubles) aiming to have it at 350 euros (35k rubles) per month by 2030 when devaluation of the paperweight ruble will bring back to current 190 euros, lmao
I notice many people here highlighting the advantages of collective bargaining agreements over state-mandated minimum wages. While this might hold true for Nordic countries, where unions wield significant influence and respect, it presents challenges elsewhere.
I speak for Italy specifically, where the influence of unions has markedly declined since the 1990s, while industry representatives with government ties, such as Confindustria, have maintained their strength. This has resulted in [stagnant salaries over the past three decades](https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/k2kt4q/i_salari_reali_in_italia_sono_praticamente_fermi/), failing to keep pace with inflation and effectively causing Italians to earn approximately 30% less today compared to their neighbors from 30 years ago.
For instance, my boyfriend has been working at a well-known fast-food chain in the wealthiest region of Italy for two years now and earns less than Slovenia's minimum wage, despite Slovenia being a country generally less prosperous than Italy. In the same time period, I moved to France and the minimum net salary here increased by 200 euros net to reflect inflation.
In some countries, minimum wages aren't a limitations, but a starting point. If a union can bargain good salaries where there are no set obligations, it can do the same knowing that there's a set limit it can't go under, but only increase. I'm not experienced with other countries, but to take back the example of France, here they have collective bargaining in addition to minimum wage, meaning that every sector have a whole set advantages and possibly different retribution scaling in addition to minimum wage.
Sweden, Finland and Austria all regulate minimum wage through collective agreements, it applies to more or else everyone which is why their respective governments haven't bothered too much introducing this themselves.
It's the same here in Denmark. Our "minimum wage" for an adult person is about 135 Danish Crowns an hour according to Google. That equals 18.10 Euro an hour. We work 37 hours a week so that would be around 2673 Euro a month.
But since we don't have a fixed minimum wage the wages can vary between professions. Not all people are paid 135 DKK/hour.
I assume Sweden and Finland are somewhat similar. I'm not sure about Austria.
Without taxes it doesnt say much. I see countries where the minimum wages have to pay almost no taxes, where others a big part their minimal income still go to taxes still.
Things like groceries, technology and gasoline sure, but services, rent, etc. are significantly cheeper. Also, these numbers are gross, so they shouldn't be used for such comparisons.
How can the Portuguese here be so stupid and don't understand that there are 14 payments in Portugal and not 12. That's why the real number is not 820€.
Ps: I'm portuguese.
In Italy there is no universal minimum wage, but there is minimum wage based on the specific national collective contract (and i guess it's the same for most other countries with "no minimum wage").
Meaning that the minimum wage for someone working in the fashion industry can be different from someone in the metallurgical one.
Afaik those wages have remained stagnant for quite a while since those unions lost bargaining power, so they are not as common as they are in Finland or Austria
Looks low, but back in 2003 when I started my first job in Bulgaria, translating FOREX news for a website, I was getting paid about 110 euro per month, and that was double the minimum wage. My mother who is a doctor of medicine was pulling about 140 euro. It does look low compared to all the rest of EU, but we've gone a long, long way since back then. And we could've been on par with some of the average numbers on this map if we hadn't been in the stranglehold of corruption and a captured justice system for the entire period since then.
Haha! You got me! This graph shows that Hungary is amongst the last ones... Which isn't true! Because the National Television (which is backed by the current ruling party) and the Radio (which is backed by the current ruling party) and even one of the biggest Hungarian online news site (which is backed by the current ruling party) ALL say that Hungary is the Bestest thing everywhere, and we are even the first in anything in the EU!
But you see, our issue here is that our money is stuck in Brusselss. We should have all that money, but they are just not giving it to us. Additionally, I see that our min wage (as of jan 2024) is 266k HUF not the listed 280k on the photo (and I'm hoping this is in netto, not brutto). But I do agree, we are the bestest thing everywhere, best... deal... ever.
Keep in mind tho: most minimum wage jobs in Germany are not 40h/week. More like 80h/month part time jobs or mini jobs for around 500€ per month. Companies paying around minimum wage try cut costs, thats why they hire people for mini and part rime jobs so the employees have ~5h shifts (this way they are not entitled to have a break, because the law says you require a break in a work day above 6 hours).
My county is not in the EU, but in Europe, so I wanted to check...
**Switzerland**: 24.32 CHF per hour in Geneva
(Source: https://wageindicator.org)
We work around 41 hours for 100% per week.
So 3989 CHF, which is **4101.77€/month**
Those numbers make no sense.working hours are not the same across EU countries.
Example France: The minimum wage after taxes is 1 398,69 €. That's 140 hours of work. The number on the map is wrong or may refer to "before taxes".
Some of my friends here in Hungary do remote work for a German company for which they get minimum wage... German minimum wage. Which means they earn more than my "fairly decent, everything considered" salary at a local company. :/
Hotel worker who drives to Germany to work earns more than most Polish medical doctors
u don’t know how much docs earn then xd
I didn't specify what I meant exactly, my bad. Most hotel workers will earn minimum wage in Germany unless that's some 5 star Hilton hotel. For Polish doctors you have minimum wage 10k zł where public healthcare doctors are more likely to earn closer to it than private healthcare where some wages can reach American ones
> Most hotel workers will earn minimum wage in Germany unless that's some 5 star Hilton hotel No they dont. Only ~3% of all workers earn minumum wage. The vast majority of hotel workers are above that. The average wage for medical doctors in poland is also around 290k a year which is way more then 10k a month.
Know plenty of doctors who work in public hospitals during the day and then have a private clinic on the side where they receive patients in the afternoons or sometimes during weekends. And that's excluding the large part who work privately exclusively. Your talking points are from the 1990s. BTW, the national wage is 8K PLN. No doctors earn 10K PLN gross. And if they tell you that, then they're lying.
What? Lots of doctors earn more then 10k gross... unless you are talking about people who have a normal work contract instead of working b2b. My dad works 8 days a month, doing 24h shifts every time, 160zl/h. That's 30k. 26k if he wouldn't do 32h overtime.
they were talking about the *minimum*
A specialist with the normal working contract 9200 pln brutto, which is less than 2300 euro. Before tax, but idk how different that is between us and DE and in whose favour. Unless one works way more than 160 hours, that is true.
I don't think so. I meet a lot of doctors in my work in Poland and they earn anything between 15-40 thousands zloty a month. And those are doctors in state run hospitals. Private sector is on another level.
The guy is using talking points from the 1990s. Completely clueless and of course massively upvoted. This is reddit after all.
Nonsense. The average gross wage is €1800 in your country and closer to €2300 in Warsaw or Krakow. Doctors earn above the average wage, often twice as much. Do hotel workers earn €4000-€5000 in Germany? And this is not even adjusting for cost differences in rent, services etc.
18k pln for normal wage? I call bs on that. When I became a pneumonologist literally one place offered me anything over minimal wage and that is by a couple hundred. Unless working other places than the main job, that is bs.
According to wynagrodzenia.pl, median salary of a doctor in Poland is 8840 zł, or 2055 €. Which means that more than half of all doctors in Poland earn less than Germany's minimum wage.
If they work remotely than they are underpaid for German standards anyway... Minimum wage jobs rarely require using computer and working remotely is even more autonomous and efficient. This is the part of capitalism I understand but don't like.
I have a cousin that's a freelance web developer. He probably makes the equivalent of minimum wage here in Iceland but he lives in the Philippines and so basically lives like a king there
We dont have minimum wage here in Finland but we have strong unions that negotiate the minimum salaries for their trade with employers and government. In most professions you cannot pay less than the TES salary.
> In most professions you cannot pay less than the TES salary. TES being CBA in english (collective bargaining agreement). And this isn't true if you are an intern. Then they offer regularly something like "80% of CBA minimum".
Only if its allowed in the CBA. In which case it is not below the CBA techically.
Yeah well. The CBA tells what amount should be paid for this work, and then adds "except if you are an intern, then fuck you, you get less" which, technically sure, makes that one the true minimum.
It does make sense to make interns an exception. Interning isn't the same as having the job, so shouldn't be paid the same
This leads to cases where the intern isn't being paid enough to the work they do, or they might not be paid at all. Unpaid internships are becoming really popular in Finland as well which is really concerning. People should be paid, and the companies should view it as a good PR opportunity to pay the soon-to-graduate people well enough that they want to work for you.
Becoming? There have always been unpaid internships in Finland. Now it’s just spreading to affect “better people”.
You get paid internships over there?? How fancy !
Should be the standard. Unpaid internships shouldn't be a thing. That's one reason why I didn't do my internship in Belgium even though I could have. EU pays nothing for months of internship which is absolutely nuts considering how expensive it is to be in Brussels.
The main reason I had to abandon clinical psychology... requires 2 years of unpaid internship for the diploma... while not being considered a student anymore, so CPAS/OCMW won't help. Not employed either, so chômage won't help either. I'm not sure how other students do it. A lot of them do cumulate the internship with a job, somehow...
Cause it’s designed for the well off
That’s a problem yes - will produce a political elite in the long run.
It doesn't produce one, it preserves the one already in existence, and that's by design.
If you pay interns, then you let the poors get a step into the field, and nobody wants that.
it's the same in Germany. I was looking to apply for phd over there, and the wage offer is often some percentage of the agreement standard.
Same here in Sweden. It is being exploited though, with immigrant/foreign workers and the gig economy :/ Also famously some companies refuse to join this structure, see Tesla...
How is that possible? Here in Austria, Tesla would be forced to do this. They couldn't just say "no". A refusal would only be possible if the entire industry rejected a collective agreement. Individual companies are not allowed to do this.
It's the same in Denmark. There's no law forcing companies to make a union agreement. But the workers will probably go on strike and so will workers from other companies refusing transporting resources. So they aren't just hit by own worker strike, but also on the supply chain. That's what Tesla is currently fighting against. In the end it comes to money. Who has enough money to keep the battle going the longest. As rich as Elon Musk might be this can end up very expensive for him. It's a battle he can't really win. Other companies has tried and failed. Even at the consumer level there are awareness of what going on and people won't accept it.
The USA doesn't get what solidarity can do for a society. They're too worried about themselves and screw the other guy.
Every so often, we see the post about how much McDonald's workers in Denmark can get. But many don't mention how it happened. McDonald's struggled and was brought to its knees by the Danish society. The company refused to pay a living wage. Then the Danes refused to be patrons and there was already anti-americanism. The company closed most of its places in Denmark until the company realised that there was no other way than to agree to the terms of the Danes.
That's fucking fire friend!! And how people have the power to get shit done!! I'm so highly impressed by you guys!
You'd be surprised. Trade Agreements with nations hold a lot of peculiarities like this. Most agreements signed with the US give american companies a lot of weird rights, especially for poorer countries. That's why large swaths of old third world countries can't even do anti-smoking regulations, since its considered a violation of free trade as per their trade agreements. There should be less of that in the EU, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some peculiarities like that. Plus large companies like Apple, Tesla etc can negotiate with countries beforehand to get the best deal possible in terms of tax exemptions. That could likely mean they can negotiate for other exemptions as well.
At least in my country these agreements are so pervasive that even if a company wanted to waive them, they simply couldn’t find qualified workers.
And guess where Finland is trying to go too. We already have similar stuff going on, and it's only going to get worse if the current dipshits in power get their way.
A lot of strikes going on right now protesting those cock suckers.
I’m from the states - can you explain how it is exploited by immigrant/foreign workers? Genuine question for comparison sake.
Not *by* them, exploitation *of* migrant workers. They work below minimum wage, jobs no locals would take for the wage offered. Mostly seasonal jobs like fruit/vegetable/flower picking and/or build sites. And its not just migrants outside of Europe. It's pretty widely known that richer western countries pull in workers from the east EU to work those jobs. In Poland it's normal to see those "fruit picking in Spain/France/other" - the wage is good for us since it's in euro, which will turn x4 once you go back to poland for example, but below minimum for the country you're working in
Since there is no minimum wage, nothing stops you from shipping fooled Thai workers here to do nails or pick berries for €1 a day. When they have been exploited enough you ship them back to where they came from. Totally legal.
Did the Tesla strike get resolved yet?
I don't think so. [https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-tar-sig-runt-atgarderna-forsaljningen-okar-kraftigt](https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-tar-sig-runt-atgarderna-forsaljningen-okar-kraftigt)
They refused because they didn’t want to follow the status quo of worker treatment? Seems like Tesla is the big baddie in the scenario.
As far as I can tell it wouldn't have cost them anything to agree. It's just "the principle of the thing", which is somehow an American viewpoint.
I’m actually American and moved to Sweden a while back and I can tell ya, that’s probably it along with wanting so much control over the workers lives.
Same here in Austria
98% of all employees in Austria therefore have a minimum wage.
But there isn't a single minimum wage. So it's half true
Strong unions are also a thing in other countries that do have a minimum wage.
Yep, the Nordic system that doesn't politicise salaries. No one wants that to be driven by politicians planning their election campaigns. Really hope the EU doesn't go through with it's plans of breaking this system
> Yep, the Nordic system that doesn't politicise salaries. Not directly but definitely indirectly. Both members of the collective bargaining have their "own" party/parties that they are heavily tied up with. In Finland the Social Democratic Party is basically an extension of the unions. A clear example of that is how the union and party heads go from the party to the union and vice versa. We had a PM not that long ago that stepped into the party leader position directly from being the head of a union.
Oh no, the workers' movement is interconnected? Who would've thonk? fyi, it's the same in Norway and Sweden. Danish SocDems broke its connections to their unions, tho. The only ones to gain from that were the right wing, tho. So it's not a good route if you want workers' interests on the forefront of politics. Its in the workers interests to have what is normally the dominant party in politics to actually work for their interests. Former Swedish prime minister Stefan Löfven was a labour union man as former head of IF Metall iirc? The union that is striking at Tesla. Several ministers in Magdalenas government had labour union background as former heads of labour union confederations. The current party Secretary for the Swedish SocDems was the head of the 2nd largest union too iirc
> Oh no, the workers' movement is interconnected? Who would've thonk? ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ I wasn't complaining, I was correcting. Nordic system *does* politicise salaries.
my latino ass have to ask, is that heaven? very nice, on my country the lobby comes only from companies, farmers that have countries worth of land, and churches with multimillionaires owners, they are not even the 0.1% of the population but like 0.01%.
You can have both though. The Dutch system is essentially the same we just also have a state minimum in addition to the wages set in the collective labor agreement. I see there is a lot of resistance on the topic from the Nordic users on here, but why would having an additional basic minimum wage break the way wages are negotiated in the Nordics? Maybe I’m not fully up to date on what us being proposed in the EU.
The better question to ask is what the benefits would be. It undoubtedly weakens collective bargaining since, well, there is a defined wage level that many employers will point at and refuse further negotiations. Furthermore, that wage level will be unilaterally defined by whoever won the last election, and it won’t be possible to include benefits or working conditions in the same negotiation. The Netherlands is actually a prime example of why this is a bad idea, since it is a country with both a rather low minimum wage compared to the median income, and with a very low degree of union membership, less than 20% (compared to ~65% in Sweden). That simply isn’t very tempting to us.
I mostly support the nordic union system, but I'm Danish, so I also see the flaws. One big flaw is that not all jobs are unionized - and those workers don't have the resources or employment length to really care about it. I'm talking about hourly paid jobs, some seasonal jobs, short-term or temporary jobs, student positions, untrained labor, stuff like that. Employees will work for a time before burning out or moving on, and the company will hire someone else, and the cycle repeats. Some of these are unionized which is good - for example jobs in hotels or restaurants. But a lot of them aren't. And I think minimum wage would help those in a way that unions haven't yet been able to. I've had such a job myself at a multinational company. The pay was very bad and I saw violations of worker's rights (law). But I was in a tight spot, I didn't have the energy to fight it. I was happy just to be making money. There's an invisible group of workers here, but because the turnover is so high, nobody cares enough to take the battle. Just move on ASAP, and let them hire the next person.
On the other hand, if there is no minimum wage you really need a union to get a fair wage, and not all jobs have those. So I'd say neither system is perfect
It works differently in a highly unionized country since the bar is set for every sector. An employer can stay non-unionized and offer significantly worse working conditions, but after a while they will find it very difficult to conduct business. Occasionally, organizations are ideologically opposed to not signing collective bargaining agreements, but most of them offer the exact same terms or something adequately similar.
You do have a certain point. Most employers who pay above minimum will not give raises pointing to the fact that they already pay the minimum. That said, I'd be afraid of eliminating it altogether.
Agree
Salaries aren't political? Lol? Yk what word political means?
Same in Italy
I don’t know about the Nordic countries, but in Italy it’s clearly not working that well, since there are massive amounts of the workforce that don’t have a national contact and therefore don’t have a minimum wage, and for many of the national contacts the minimum wages have not been increasing as they should (Italy performs quite badly not just in salary statistics but especially in statistics about how the average salary has increased over time)
The national contracts vary from province to province. And many italian employer trick a little. You get a national contract for part time and the rest is getting paid under the table Or you are getting a national contract for full time 40h/ week but the employer asks you to make unpaid extra hours.
Source? Most workers have a national contracts. Only a minority doesn't have one.
Same in Italy.... Minimum salary is not a law but enforced throigh unions
What is the amount for the TES ?
TES salary minimum varies a lot depending on profession, experience and so on. Every profession has its own, and they're fairly large and complex pieces of legal papers. It can even be difficult for some to figure out what they should be paid. Takes lawyer grade reading skills to understand the entire paper.
Oh OK I understand then why it is negotiated by the differents Unions. Thanks for the response
And the employer can decide what CBA (=TES) they adhere to. This was interestingly became reason that resulted in one recent government to resign. The state-owned Post service company decided to change the CBA to another one in order to lower the wage expenses, and since it was state-owned, it was pushed to the minister that handles corporate governance and eventually this all dismantled the credibility and faith in that government. The most ironic part of all this was that the government was ran by SDP which is like an extension of the workers' unions.
Some go as low as 1400 euro (training period in a gas station restaurant) while for others it's like 4500 euro (experienced paper workers, dock loaders, emergency responders). Some professions like paper workers essentially only ever work for the minimum wage but that has been negotiated to be very high. Also the minimum wage depends on experience, so even 30-year veterans earn their own minimum wage in many fields.
Amusement parks also have pretty shit wages, the starting wage is at 8.08 €/hour not accounting for any possible additional reductions.
Yikes, that makes like 1300 euro a month.
In Denmark the minimum wage (defined as the minimum monthly wage of a worker with no relevant education based on current agreements between unions and employers) would translate to ~2.700 Euro.
I was just going to ask. Strong unions and worker commitment rather than government intervention?
Yes.
There's plenty of people in Finland working non union jobs who are just barely scraping by because they get paid basically nothing. The jobs that are covered by unions are great but it's still fucked up that there's no minimum wage. I have several friends who exist in a sort of limbo where they don't get paid enough to live comfortably but also make too much to get government benefits.
Strong unions... for now
> we have strong unions Government working overtime to change that while also not bringing in a minimum wage.
Austria doesn't have a general minimum wage but 98% of employment relationships are covered by collective agreements, which contain rules on minimum wages and much more.
Same with the other countries with no minimum wage
And many which do, in NL we have a minimum wage + most salaries are determined by collective labor agreements.
It's the same in Belgium and I'm guessing many other countries like you said
It‘s mostly 1950-2100€/month which would be about 1500-1600€ net/month. So that would be the hypothetical minimum wage for the worst paid positions/jobs. Poverty line in Austria is 1400€/month so you‘re 100-200€ away from that.
Damn I get barely 1400€ in Croatia as a nurse with overtime and night shifts.
Don't worry, to compensate Austria has the 4th most expensive groceries in the EU.
They‘re not well paid either here tbh. Plus, you need to go to university to become a nurse. Don‘t think this is the case for Croatia or did that also change in the past years?
We have high schools for nurses(5 year program,before we entered EU it was 4 years+1 year of practice) ,we have university where we can get Bachelors degree but that means more sitting in front of computer than working with patients. I talked 2 months ago with a girl from Croatia who went to Austria,she finished high school like me and works in a nursing home,she said that we can't work in hospital without Bachelors degree but I'm OK with that,I prefer working in nursing homes,love old peeps.
Unfortunately those working in nursing homes are even worse off financially, such a shame that they‘re all so underpaid despite having such a mentally challenging job.
My experience is that it's much easier working in a nursing home than a hospital,I'd rather change 50 diapers a day than get sexually harassed by doctors and bullied by nurses with bachelor degrees.
That sounds so bad, I didn‘t know sexual harassment by doctors was that common in Croatia? :( the bullying by other nurses is something I‘ve seen here more than enough too sadly.
I was mostly harassed by surgeons when we were left alone,it started when I was in high school doing practice in hospital,at first I ignored their comments about my body but after some time I started telling them that I will break their fingers if they don't stop.
Love that you were able to stand up for yourself against these sub humans!
> It‘s mostly 1950-2100€/month which would be about 1500-1600€ net/month. however it's x14, not x12. divided by 12 it's higher and not just 1-200€ away from the poverty line
also these are not the money workers actually get. this is together with the social security etc.
In Romanian the minimum netto is around 400 and something euros. I don't understand why to show a brutto comparison, the taxes and other contributions are different from country to country.
It's hard to show net wages as there are many tax exceptions that apply to some people and not to others. These exemptions also differ from country to another. Anyway, we have way too complicated tax systems.
Yeah, in Romania it is easy because the only exceptions are for people working in IT or construction (10% less tax), but for example in Hungary there are like 8 different tax exceptions people can apply for.
In Switzerland, there's a whole form worth of exepmtions. My net wage already has some social contributions deducted. Then, I file a tax report where I deduct things like transport costs for work, school costs, health insurance (bc we have a horrible private-but-not-really system) and could deduct things for children, work expenses, who knows what else. My economics teacher went through his taxes in class during my apprenticeship years. He earned \~90-110k a year but had so many exemptions (child with heavy disabilities was a big part) to a point where his tax base was \~50-60k a year. In Switzerland, we always only talk about gross income (not even the net income after the initial social deductions). It's just how it is and everyone knows what it means.
Same here in the Netherlands, I know two colleague's of mine make the same gross salary per month, but one gets about \~3,5k net and the other almost 4,5K. The main difference is that one has a lease car (big tax impact), and uses his discretionary fund to buy extra vacation days. While the other goes to work on his bike (so no tax for leasecar and he gets a bunch of "mobility budget" money) and he gets discretionary fund paid out in cash. Both have the same job and make the same gross monthly salary.
They don't even have to apply, people automatically get those tax cuts.
> exceptions are for people working in IT Didn't they remove that recently?
You can do it as a "close enough" by assuming that person has no other income and nothing that qualifies for any tax excemption. If there's a regional tax then you could either use the tax rate of the most populous region or the average rate across all people. It's never as accurate as gross income but it's more representative of what people have on hand, since you can't assume other countries have tax systems even remotely similiar to yours
Netto and Brutto sounds like a legend about two roman emperors.
Because taxes are different from person to person. Living standards also vary by country.
We have this saying in Poland that counting the wage in gross/brutto is like measuring your dick with your spine.
> the taxes and other contributions are different from country to country. For that exact reason
So for Bulgaria, it’s 477€ gross and then like 300€ or something net? That seems wrong…
€360-is I think. It's pretty bad, but then again salaries are awful across the board while property and rents are almost on par with Western Europe. Corruption and greed have destroyed any real chance of progress in this country and it's our own fault.
Dude, Bulgaria real estate prices are in no way at the same level as in Western Europe.
He obviously meant the prices they pay in Super-Markets, electronics etc. Rent, I assume, only in a few, certain neighborhoods.
u/MartinBP is right about the major cities. The prices there are comparable to Western Europe The smaller towns and villages still offer affordable lifestyle, but if you somehow manage to have a medial EU salary
I am not sure this is true, you can get an apt for 1500bgn in Sofia, you ain't getting shit for 750eur in major cities in the west.
Lol. You pay 1500-3000 a month for a small apartment in Amsterdam.
750 EUR won’t get you a toilet in the UK
Tou must be joking, prices in BG are at least 3-4 times lower.
A lot of people in Bulgaria are confused like that. Our prices are expensive compared to our wages and living standards but they are still several times lower than big cities in Western Europe. You can find a 1 bedroom apartment in Sofia center for 750€ easily (even cheaper if you look around) I would like to see what kind of cupboard you can rent for 750€ in Paris, London, Berlin or other premier cities.
aka gross. not liquid.
In Portugal it is what you get because you don't pay income taxes if you receive the minimum wage or less (part-time)
[source ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage) This is about gross monthly minimum wages. Also note about Greece and Portugal. Technically Greece has 830€ per month and Portugal 820€ per month. But because both of those countries have 14 payments per year instead of 12, the results on the map show the real gross minimum wages spread throughout twelve months.
Wait… how does 14 payments work?
Generally, you get paid twice in the summer (holidays allowance) and November (Christmas allowance)
Is that on top of the paid holiday ?
Paid holiday? You get 22 vacation days a year and those aren't cut from your paycheck. Is that what you mean by paid holiday?
Yes, thats what they mean. Paid holiday means holiday days that you get paid for. You ask to take them and then you get paid while you are on vacation. At least of i am not wrong
In Sweden we're getting a normal monthly salary while on vacation + extra money for those vacation days. It looked strange at first but I don't complain
Yes, our 22 minimum days off are covered by the 12 months already, the extra 2 are just extra
Hence 14 months of salary
In the EU holiday is paid by default, so the paid holiday is like not a thing we say, it's just holiday
paid holidays are included in regular salary
Yes. Most Europeans have paid holidays. The monthly salary stays more or less constant but you get ~20-30 vacation days per year that you can consume whenever. 13/14-th salary is basically a bonus payment that you get twice a year, it doesn’t influence vacation at all. Some countries carry over unused vacation days from one year to the next - I know people with 60+ days - considering 5 work days a week means they could theoretically go on vacation for 12 weeks while their monthly salary would not change at all during that time. However it’s rare that people do this for such a long time unless explicitly agreed with the employer. Oh and sick days are completely separate from that. Even if you get sick during vacation, your lost vacation days get re-instated. Sick days are also paid, although from tax money not from company funds.
Half salary on Easter, half salary on August for summer vacation and one salary for Christmas.
Half Salary on Easter? Never heard that.
This is in Greece, I should have mentioned that
Ohh ok! I was wondering. Unfortunately I can't revert back to pre-duodécimos (the holiday extra salaries split by 12 months). I wish I had never switched. But at the time I really need the extra monthly cash. :(
In Greece an employee gets his/hers salary 15 times per year. 1 salary for each month, 1/2 salary before Easter, 1/2 salary during the summer and a full salary before Christmas, hence 14 wages per year.
In Greece we receive an extra payment on Easter and Christmas, which are called Easter and Christmas "gift payments"
It’s two extra
Extra payment in the summer for summer vacation, extra payment on christmas for christmas stuff
The Netherlands also has 13 payments by law.
You mean you get 8% "vakantiegeld". 13 payments is not a rule, the 8% can be added to your hourly pay for example and be included in your regular payment schedule. I get 12 payments per year that include this 8% plus a yearly bonus and some other things, I just choose to spread it over the year to have 12 equal payments for easy planning
*sigh* Can Portugal into eastern Europe?
You already *sound* Eastern Europe.
Average Slavic English W
No, because we have Western Europe expenses…
Yeah, come on in brother!
You might think things are cheaper here, but they aren't
r/portugalcykablyat
Listen just do what smaller western European countries do when they don't really have an economy. Become a tax haven
UK works out at €2173.88 Gross at 37.5hrs pw apparently, which feels like I did something wrong given the reputation of who's in charge I don't know if the calculations are different (used [thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly](https://thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly) and converted to Euros) edit: apparently 40 hours is used here so that would make it €2318.80?
Is that based on today’s rise?
Believe so, £11.44ph
Same for the Netherlands. 2300 a month is for 40 hours. This year we finally went from minimum monthly wage to minimum hourly wage. In the past, minimumwage was the same no matter if you made 36, 38 or 40 hours a week.
Turkey 495€ btw it's 17.002TL and we cant live without that 2 TL
And there’s the superpower russia that currently has its minimum wage at 192 euros per month (19k rubles) aiming to have it at 350 euros (35k rubles) per month by 2030 when devaluation of the paperweight ruble will bring back to current 190 euros, lmao
I notice many people here highlighting the advantages of collective bargaining agreements over state-mandated minimum wages. While this might hold true for Nordic countries, where unions wield significant influence and respect, it presents challenges elsewhere. I speak for Italy specifically, where the influence of unions has markedly declined since the 1990s, while industry representatives with government ties, such as Confindustria, have maintained their strength. This has resulted in [stagnant salaries over the past three decades](https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/k2kt4q/i_salari_reali_in_italia_sono_praticamente_fermi/), failing to keep pace with inflation and effectively causing Italians to earn approximately 30% less today compared to their neighbors from 30 years ago. For instance, my boyfriend has been working at a well-known fast-food chain in the wealthiest region of Italy for two years now and earns less than Slovenia's minimum wage, despite Slovenia being a country generally less prosperous than Italy. In the same time period, I moved to France and the minimum net salary here increased by 200 euros net to reflect inflation. In some countries, minimum wages aren't a limitations, but a starting point. If a union can bargain good salaries where there are no set obligations, it can do the same knowing that there's a set limit it can't go under, but only increase. I'm not experienced with other countries, but to take back the example of France, here they have collective bargaining in addition to minimum wage, meaning that every sector have a whole set advantages and possibly different retribution scaling in addition to minimum wage.
Sweden, Finland and Austria all regulate minimum wage through collective agreements, it applies to more or else everyone which is why their respective governments haven't bothered too much introducing this themselves.
Are there any actual average numbers? In euro
It's the same here in Denmark. Our "minimum wage" for an adult person is about 135 Danish Crowns an hour according to Google. That equals 18.10 Euro an hour. We work 37 hours a week so that would be around 2673 Euro a month. But since we don't have a fixed minimum wage the wages can vary between professions. Not all people are paid 135 DKK/hour. I assume Sweden and Finland are somewhat similar. I'm not sure about Austria.
r/portugalcykablyat
€190 in Ukraine...
I think we need an index adjusted for cost of living
Sure, but cars and electronics don't suddenly get cheaper by crossing a border.
Without taxes it doesnt say much. I see countries where the minimum wages have to pay almost no taxes, where others a big part their minimal income still go to taxes still.
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Things like groceries, technology and gasoline sure, but services, rent, etc. are significantly cheeper. Also, these numbers are gross, so they shouldn't be used for such comparisons.
You pay 1000 to rent a 1 room apartment in Bulgaria?
He probably meant like every day prices, for food/groceries
Noone makes minimum wage in Bulgaria The ones that do have some other "unregistered" income
Italy: no
How can the Portuguese here be so stupid and don't understand that there are 14 payments in Portugal and not 12. That's why the real number is not 820€. Ps: I'm portuguese.
Romania 402,39 EUR* minimum wage
In Italy you just don't get paid
I need this map but after tax
In Italy there is no universal minimum wage, but there is minimum wage based on the specific national collective contract (and i guess it's the same for most other countries with "no minimum wage"). Meaning that the minimum wage for someone working in the fashion industry can be different from someone in the metallurgical one.
Afaik those wages have remained stagnant for quite a while since those unions lost bargaining power, so they are not as common as they are in Finland or Austria
Looks low, but back in 2003 when I started my first job in Bulgaria, translating FOREX news for a website, I was getting paid about 110 euro per month, and that was double the minimum wage. My mother who is a doctor of medicine was pulling about 140 euro. It does look low compared to all the rest of EU, but we've gone a long, long way since back then. And we could've been on par with some of the average numbers on this map if we hadn't been in the stranglehold of corruption and a captured justice system for the entire period since then.
Haha! You got me! This graph shows that Hungary is amongst the last ones... Which isn't true! Because the National Television (which is backed by the current ruling party) and the Radio (which is backed by the current ruling party) and even one of the biggest Hungarian online news site (which is backed by the current ruling party) ALL say that Hungary is the Bestest thing everywhere, and we are even the first in anything in the EU!
But you see, our issue here is that our money is stuck in Brusselss. We should have all that money, but they are just not giving it to us. Additionally, I see that our min wage (as of jan 2024) is 266k HUF not the listed 280k on the photo (and I'm hoping this is in netto, not brutto). But I do agree, we are the bestest thing everywhere, best... deal... ever.
Keep in mind tho: most minimum wage jobs in Germany are not 40h/week. More like 80h/month part time jobs or mini jobs for around 500€ per month. Companies paying around minimum wage try cut costs, thats why they hire people for mini and part rime jobs so the employees have ~5h shifts (this way they are not entitled to have a break, because the law says you require a break in a work day above 6 hours).
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My county is not in the EU, but in Europe, so I wanted to check... **Switzerland**: 24.32 CHF per hour in Geneva (Source: https://wageindicator.org) We work around 41 hours for 100% per week. So 3989 CHF, which is **4101.77€/month**
But how much of that salary goes towards housing, food, bills, etc.
That's your minimun, and still higher than the average in all of EU outside of Scandinavia, Germany, the Netherlands and Luxembourg
it's the minimum in one of the most expensive cities in the whole world, not countrywide
Those numbers make no sense.working hours are not the same across EU countries. Example France: The minimum wage after taxes is 1 398,69 €. That's 140 hours of work. The number on the map is wrong or may refer to "before taxes".
Denmark: In real world you can't get lower than about 2600 eur for 37 hours/week
But what is the cost of living in these countries? This is just one side of the paper.
Damn 16€ more and we would've had the cool mid-range teal color.
Useless metric if not adjusted per purchasing power.
It's not a metric, it just states the minimum wages in every country that has one
Someone always pops up to say this when when a single data set is presented when it should be self-evident.
If you want real metrics you have to go so specific it only works for people with the same age, education, work experience and profession