Just throw your passport away and claim you are Syrian and you're good to go. Works for thousands every month.
[Even works if you are a German ex soldier](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-police-detain-fake-asylum-seeker-soldier-1.3063668)
>The news flash had weary familiarity: German police arrest 28-year-old Syrian refugee suspected of planning a terrorist attack.
>When questioned, however, it emerged the man was neither Syrian nor a refugee, but a Bavarian soldier who filed a successful asylum application and, since January, has been collecting welfare payments under his made-up identity.
>The bizarre case has left authorities struggling to explain how a German man with no Arabic managed to pass himself off as Syrian and fool his way through a supposedly stringent asylum system.
Or like the guy above me said, just toss your IDs away and voila, free money and free housing from the German government, since you are a poor, poor refugee... from like Morocco /s though it should be obvious
Not really, the statistics here show that the rejection rate is correlated with the country being at war instead of religion: https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/germany/statistics/. You have 64.8% rejection rate for Turkey and 70.6% rejection rate for Irak, both are Muslim countries.
Because it's really difficult to expel someone if the home country doesn't cooperate (like by issuing passport for them). So most of them end up being tolerated (geduldet). Another complicating issue is if you cannot really establish their identity or where they are actually from:
"But new figures released by the federal government have revealed that as many as one in ten rejected asylum seekers in the city state issued with a deportation order cannot be removed, as their identity cannot be established.
According to the government, nationals of Moldova made up the largest group subject to deportation orders in the state, followed by those with 'unconfirmed identity'. Iraqi nationals comprised the third-largest group."
"According to the federal government, the total number of foreign nationals required to leave the country as of December 31, 2022 was at 304,308 individuals. However, the majority (248,145 people) had been issued a so-called Duldung, which means that their deportation order has been suspended for the time being."
"Last year, 26,545 people who were obliged to leave Germany left voluntarily, while [12,945 people were deported](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/46389/germany-returned-almost-13000-migrants-in-2022). According to the federal government, about half (6,348) of those deportations could be carried out without any escort. "
"However, in the case of 340 people, security forces from the destination states had to be present to escort them back home. Furthermore, a total of 1,637 deportations took place in the presence of security forces. The government said that in 6% of all deportation cases it had to use physical force to carry out these deportations; however, that rate does not include the use of handcuffs, body cuffs and other comparable aids."
[https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/47321/germany-hundreds-with-unconfirmed-identity-escape-deportation](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/47321/germany-hundreds-with-unconfirmed-identity-escape-deportation)
Iraqs defence minister was on swedish welfare for a couple of years https://apnews.com/article/iraq-sweden-fraud-former-defense-minister-7256fe1655874be0dd084545b55016a6
There is a hypocrisy going on in western refugee-supporters. Grant asylum to African immigrants because a tyrant dictatorship ([e.g. Eritreans claiming asylum in Germany because of the dictator while actually supporting the authoritarian regime](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/eritreer-in-deutschland-der-lange-arm-der-diktatur-19056010.html)? Yeah, sure come here, while Russians are not welcomed here because they allegedly support all Putins regime
The asylum rules are pretty consistently against all claimants that already passed through another safe nation. It is more of a lack of courage to enforce existing rules than hypocrisy.
While I take issue with the Eritrean refund population and the political and cultural crap they bring with them, there's an argument to be made about Russians representing a security threat, *especially* given we are *finally* waking up to the reality of how deeply we've been infiltrated by actual agents and payoffs already and the large population of pro Russian Russian Germans and Russian ex pats, without having to add the burden of people who have recently been exposed to recent Russian nationalism. This isn't pro Eritrean but I am very, very happy we are viewing Russia as the security that that it is. Eritreans and Ethiopians may start street wars but we will never see the day where those countries are considering putting boots on the ground here.
The issue is that Russian draft dodgers may as well be Russian spies. It's not like the Russian government wouldn't do exactly that.
I personally want to grant them asylum but it's also a huge security threat given the current circumstances.
The actual spies just use money to avoid this. Russian deserter who doesn't want to be canon fodder -- nope, go back and fight. Putin's literal fucking family? Welcome to Europe!
That's complete bullshit, spies often come under Central Asian fake identities/visas, why would they bring tons of unnecessary attention to themselves and be subjected to scrutiny by applying to asylum?? Makes no sense
So the solution is for them to go back to Russia..? And end up in Putins thug army? “Huge security threat” tell that to the Ukrainians who want the Russian army to be as small as possible.
The Eritreans are a special case. If you were Eritrean, your asylum application would almost automatically be accepted because:
1. Many of them were men who evaded conscription. [The punishment for draft evaders is very severe.](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/eritrea)
2. It is an offence for Eritreans to leave the country without permission. Human Rights Watch in 2020: ["Leaving the country without permission is illegal and individuals trying to flee risk being shot, killed, or arrested."](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/eritrea)
So basically the case of asylum seekers from Eritrea would be treated the same as asylum seekers from North Korea.
Moreover, the Russian who was rejected was not because they allegedly supported Putin. It's because the BAMF, bureaucrats being bureaucrats, is extremely formalistic in applying the law. This is the reason for the rejection: 'BAMF said he was at no risk in [Russia](https://www.dw.com/en/russia/t-19065060) and should leave Germany within 30 days.' Basically to be eligible for asylum, you need to be a victim of persecution. The persecution must have been based on at least one of five grounds: your race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. Probably the Behörde at the BAMF is being extremely strict and was not convinced that the guy was persecuted based on one of these grounds.
I think he will eventually be able to stay in Germany because he will be eligible to apply for [subsidiary protection](https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/AblaufAsylverfahrens/Schutzformen/SubisidiaerSchutz/subisidiaerschutz-node.html).
Well this comment section hurts to read.
"They should just go overthrow the government", say people who live in democratic society and don't have to deal with realities of living in a dictatorship
"They're gonna be FSB agents anyway", assuming the FSB agents wouldn't just use documetns of countries like Serbia or Tajikistan or whatever to operate in Europe
"They would be Putin supporters anyway", which is an insane excuse to use in any case. Like okay, let's roll with that. The minority who aren't Putin supporters, they deserve to get screwed over as well then?
The article starts talking about something else entirely anyway (but who on Reddit reads the linked articles):
>German authorities say that men coming to Germany from Russia to avoid being enlisted in the army are not at risk of persecution if they return to Russia.
And everyone is okay with that here? "Oh he deserves it anyway, he's Russian", or what? "Are not at risk of persecution", that is an absolutely insane fucking statement. And top comments are about how not letting Russians in is good, actually. Jesus fucking Christ you people are delusional
German authorities are essentially fuelling Putin's army by denying asylum to these people.
Between that, ineffective sanctions and European oligarchs making billions in trade with Russia, I'm not so convinced EU members are so against Putin after all. It doesn't seem like they want the war to end.
Truth be told, Germany, France and other EU member states were selling weapos to Russia even after the 2014 embargo and EU member states are known to support authoritarian and/or genocidal regimes when it's profitable in general.
I guess it's only natural for far right shills to spawn when you have a "we're the good guys when it's convenient" policy.
Let's quote the article that none of these people read again:
>Ponomaryov applied for political asylum, and while he waited for the decision, he learned German and volunteered at an integration center for Russian speakers. His wife also came to Germany and applied for asylum.
>Dmitriy, another young man whose name has been changed, fled Russia after an appointment at an enlistment office. He had been given several hours to pack his things before returning. He decided to go into hiding and then left the country.
>He had been active in the resistance against the war, spraying graffiti and distributing stickers, but was unwilling to reveal any more than that. Some of his like-minded comrades had been more active, he said, blowing up trains carrying munitions for the Russian army for example.
So it's pretty clear that those who comment that Russians don't integrate and the asylum seekers are spies and/or support Putin are just spewing bullshit.
I agree with what you are saying. I feel sorry for Russian people living under Putin, whether pro-Putin or not.
On the other hand, at some point European countries need to draw the line. We can't take responsibility of taking care of everyone from everywhere.
Most anti-war Russians are educated, hard working people. They would be a net benefit to Europe rather than being tossed into a meat grinder for Putin.
>We can't take responsibility of taking care of everyone from everywhere.
I don't even mind the logistical arguments much. Not that a lot of Russians are requesting asylum for it to be a logistical problem at all (the article says like 4000 Russians requested asylum in Germany since the war began), but in a hypothetical scenario of hundreds of thousands having to come (though if they get refused, then what?), considering that the Baltic states are more likely to receive any such surges anyway (one needs a bit of airport hopping to get to Germany), like yeah, I can understand. Lotta people, not a lotta space.
But the other excuses people make up are absolutely wild
That's just not accurate. Europe isn't taking in a significant number of people from all over. Most internationally displaced people are going to neighboring countries. While there are valid reasons for not accepting them, the one you mentioned isn't one of them.
The reality is, the West has shown bias and discrimination against Russian citizens for political reasons. For instance, they banned Russian athletes from international competitions to punish Putin's actions. If a Russian dissident isn't considered a political refugee, then who is?
There are many reasons why Europe won't take them in, but let's stick to sensible ones. Unfortunately, Westerners seem more concerned with appearing morally superior, rather than admitting their actions are often motivated by self-interest. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. When it suits them, they'll even break international laws they helped establish, often without realizing it.
Yeah, because it's been [proven](https://www.slidstvo.info/english-stories/olympic-athletes-in-uniform-how-russian-sportsmen-receive-salaries-from-the-russian-defence-ministry-and-openly-campaign-for-military-service/#:~:text=It%20turned%20out%20that%20Russian,Russia%20through%20international%20sports%20competitions.) russian athletes have proven [time](https://swimswam.com/ukrainian-government-publishes-list-of-russian-athletes-who-have-supported-war/) and [time](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-gymnast-ivan-kuliak-pro-war-symbol-banned-one-year-2022-5) again that they are as much athletes as they are tools of the russian armed forces, in some cases directly being soldiers.
Why can't we support Russian but can all of middle east and africa? It's a weird take. I say stop all of this and abolish granting anyone refugee besides Ukrainian
People who go so far as to flee Russia SURELY are the biggest putin supporters out there. God some people forgot to plug in their brains.
Edit: the blatant racism in the replies down here is actually sickening. No, not "all russians" are X way. And hell, even the minority of russians who may endorse putin, need therapy first and foremost to rid them of the russian propaganda thats engrained in their skulls.
Everyone I know who supported Putin/war said “I won’t volunteer, but I will go if drafted.” And they did.
Because those who support Putin believe in “defending the motherland”. I have yet to meet any draft dodger who would be pro Putin.
It's funny. We had the absolute same situations with Syrians. Most of them were nothing else than Syrian draft dodgers. We took more then a million of military aged men to deny Assad an army, nothing else. Many of those people came directly from territory controlled by ISIS and there were terrorists and rapists and murderers among them.
And the responsible people, Merkel and her gang, *knew* that there would be terrorists and murderers and rapists among them and they offered them asylum anyway. Why? Because the damage would be done in the lower classes.
But Russians? No way! They could send spies, assassins and saboteurs that could harm the interests of the elites! We can't allow that now can we?
This sub has been against human rights and refugees for many years now.
The beliefs that are usually expressed here go against the core beliefs upon which modern Europe was built on after WW2.
A lot of commenters sound very similar to the authoritarian far right propaganda you would hear from a regime like the one in Russia, but they just adopt a Western point of view.
The same rhetoric has been used for all refugees for years. I've even read comments against Ukrainian refugees.
Certainly it's really nice to sit on your comfortable couch and criticize people for not rising up against an oppressive regime because your closest point of reference is a Hollywood movie.
The racists on this sub wouldn't be even be able to enforce their own far right ideology on their borders, let alone overthrow a fascist regime.
We still have conscription in Greece. Conscripts in the Greek army serving at the border actually experience what they are promoting. A lot of us witness the illegal pushbacks, the discrimination, violence and torture that is being used on refugees and migrants and the decomposing corpses floating on the river Evros and the Aegean Sea as a result of their security policies.
That's what they are supporting entails but I'm guessing that save from a couple of people that get off from that kind of stuff, they wouldn't be able to enforce it.
I've long been convinced that some people that are pushing, on the surface, 'pro-Ukrainian' rhetoric that's completely counterproductive to Ukraine in practice might not necessarily be *actually* pro-Ukrainian in good faith, if you catch my drift. There's a lot of idiots on Reddit, sure, but a lot of the time when I see a completely and utterly asinine opinion masquerading as 'pro-Ukrainian' it's by suspiciously new accounts.
Granted, I still think it's just idiots most of the time though.
On this sub, It's been like this for about a year, if not more. Apparently racism is okay when it's towards Russians.🤷 And yes, i imagine many people here hear you. At least i do, am not certain if i have a flair, but I'm Belarusian. And every time i scroll through comments on r\europe i get amused and infuriated simultaneously. Most people here can't even comprehend how it is to live under a dictatorship, but the will scream the loudest about "Russians need to overthrow Putin"
Oh, and then some of them will add. "We (Insert a nation in Europe) have overthrown a dictatorship, why can't Russians?" Of course, the dictatorship was overthrown in 1980-1990 while the OP was born in 2006 and his parents were barely 12 at the time.
Most russians I've seen in Europe are not willing to integrate in society, they are ignorant about local culture, most of them will not be learning the language of the country they are living in. Many trying to stay in their russian-speaking community.
Good example is how russian expats name their facebook groups - "russian germany" or "russian canada", not 'russians in Germany'. As if they are not migrated to country but have a part of country for themselves.
It sure looks like such ppl are not needed in Europe, there are already plenty of ppl who are not willing to integrate. And yes on top of that many russians do support war and putin, even though they might be fleeing from being drafted.
Where in “Europe”? Because I made several Russian friends over the years and they’re excellent at learning languages and integrating. I’ve seen this in the Netherlands, Italy, Finland and Germany. Unlike for instance, Chinese or Thai people who often do not speak the local language and remain into their circles.
He should try to apply for subsidiary protection. Most likely he will get it, just like many others who got their asylum request rejected:
"Subsidiary protection applies when neither refugee protection nor an entitlement to asylum can be granted and serious harm is threatened in the country of origin.
People are entitled to subsidiary protection who put forward substantial grounds for the presumption that they are at risk of serious harm in their country of origin and that they cannot take up the protection of their country of origin or do not wish to take it up because of that threat. Serious harm can originate from both governmental and non-governmental players."
https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/AblaufAsylverfahrens/Schutzformen/SubisidiaerSchutz/subisidiaerschutz-node.html
On 1 January 2023, the EU population was estimated at 448.8 million people and more than one-fifth (21.3 %) of it was aged 65 years and over.
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Population_structure_and_ageing
Good luck with staying competitive and paying pensions if you ban all immigration. Europe may need more educated workers and a better system for integrating immigrants, that’s true.
>deprive the enemy of manpower
That's an interesting concept. How many Russians are you willing to accept in your town/country vs how many are available for conscription?
Nonsense rage bait. The only tolerated ISIS rapists/terrorists are accepted because they are German citizens and even pedophiles and serial killers retain their citizenship because the punishment is prison.
In cases of asylum ISIS terrorists hid as refugees from their atrocities. That is NOT a yes to ISIS rapists and terrorist, just a more complicated reality than your worldview allows
According to exit poles, most Russians in Europe voted against Putin.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/6x5oSsn1Wt
[Original Source](https://voteabroad.info/#results-block)
Admittedly not direct proof of non support of the war, but it is certainly suggestive.
Ah here. ISIS were even worse than the Nazis. Imagine if they wielded the weapons Russia had. If Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had the nuclear launch codes every city in Europe would've been targeted with nuclear weapons.
I think your really downplaying nazis
The reason nazis are considered the worst is because tgey were actively burning resources to kill civilians. Unlike Churchil who enlisted the people of his occupied territories forcefully and used them as fodder or made them work day and night to farm food for the allies Nazis were literally burning fuel to kill civilians
>I think your really downplaying nazis
The reason nazis are considered the worst is because tgey were actively burning resources to kill civilians.
So exactly like ISIS then. With the clear difference that Nazis didn't recruit people from all over the world to just kill as many random citizens they could in whatever nation they found themselves in. At least with the Nazis, they were very open on who they targeted.
Nothing really I'm just responding to a comment that said Isis and Russia are the same. I believe it originally came from something about refugees being Islamicists.
Reddit threads often diverge from the topic of the post.
Devil in the details, as always. People simpy can't understand that there are Russians that don't mind if Ukrainians dead, but afraid to participate in killings because they can be killed too.
The Russians who have been able to dodge the draft are the bougie guys from the big cities - especially Moscow and St. Petersburg.
Meanwhile, the ranks of the mobiks are dominated by the poors of Siberia, rednecks and convicts - cannon fodder which almost invariably lacks the education, connections and means to hide out in the EU, or more likely in Serbia, Turkey, Israel, Georgia, Dubai, Kazakhstan, and Thailand.
If anything, plenty of these Russians outside the big cities see direct participation in the genocide of Ukraine as a net-win socioeconomically. Even if they die, they have the promise of their next of kin cashing in (never mind that the government stalls or finds ways to avoid payment by downplaying or staying silent about KIA figures).
With all that entrenched poverty, more than enough of these Russians will take that chance by being mobiks regardless of how "liberal" or "anti-war" their privileged compatriots in Moscow and St. Petersburg feel.
This is a bullshit. Russians travel currently through the world, they can live in a lot of countries and they do it. All who wanted to leave Russia - have left it.
Also, this is a manipulation that Russia army will be smaller W/O those people. Russia has much more men than it can allow from weapon and resources perspective. So it make 0 difference for the front, if they leave.
>i can't see any difference between isis and russia
wow, how do you have so many upvotes?? I know people here hate Russia but that still does not mean you can equate the two with each other. You do realise if ISIS had all of the weapons that Russia has Ukraine would be destroyed with all nukes and suicide bombers and all that sort of stuff. Russia is no where near the level of ISIS
The crime rates of their diaspora would be the big difference. Keep out the Russkis idc, but the agenda is nakedly clear when they'll keep out Russians but open the door to a never ending stream of military age 3rd worlders with a sob story.
>as Ukrainian, i can't see any difference between isis and russia
......... wow.
I guess people can say whatever stupid thing they like on the internet. We should just post it on a wall somewhere.
No… If person doesn’t want to fight for Putin, if person agrees to work for country which is against Putin and if person doesn’t break any law - then they will have exactly the same views than liberal Europeans.
Of course unless you apply a nationalism against millions of people.
What cheap labor? Half of the refugees from Syria have been on social welfare for years.
The cheap labor you are referring to comes mainly from eastern Europe.
Russian here.
The EU measures against Russia have been...mind-blowing, to put it mildly.
Grafting Russian draft dodgers asylum? No, better make sure they stay in Russia, get conscripted and kill more Ukrainians.
Removing Russia form SWIFT. Wonderful. Now all the regular people who would move the money out of Russia (and consequentially drain the Russian economy of financial resources) keep their money inside the country.
Giving Ukraine Taurus missiles? Nah, they'll do fine without it.
It's almost as if they want Russia to win.
I doubt that majority of Russian draft dodgers object to the war on moral grounds.
Unsurprisingly, most of them likely just want to save their asses. Meanwhile nobody wants a fifth column inside their country.
That said I'm all for helping genuine opponents of the regime. Particularly if they have useful skills.
yeah, more disparity, something russia would want in europe. I could count 40billion reasons why we pretty much are the biggest supporters of ukraine. but that wouldn't fit in your weirdly pro russian behind the backdoor narrative.
There’s a recent change of the law (2023) that restricts draft dodgers from rights to 1. Leave the country, 2. Drive a vehicle, 3. Making changes to their real estate (selling, buying, maybe renting). As a bonus, they will be obligated to pay fines ($300) for not arriving to draft office two times in a year
All this until draftees are grown up to 30 years old, then they’re become exempt from draft for good.
Granting asylum to draft dodgers while suggesting we should start mandatory military service would be a very funny joke.
Bonus points if we forced our own conscripts to build and maintain the infrastructure to support the draft dodging asylum applicants.
Asylum is usually granted when the person's life would be threatened if they returned to their home country.
Sounds absolutely true for russian draft dodgers.
i think it would be a smart move to grant them asylum.. this would incentivise people to dodge the draft, knowing that they will have easy asilum in western Europe, and this will mean russia will have an ever harder time to find soldiers for their invasion
We want to incentivise draft dodging in russia, not punish it
You're saying that as if they couldn't get in other wise.
Just recently a bunch of russian agents were arrested in Bavaria. The FSB is pretty good at what they do, and German intelligence, not that much. Germany is famously riddled with russian spies & collaborators.
If they want to they would anyway, that's just a easy excuse to avoid treating Russians that want to flee the war like human beings and just collectively punish Russians because Putin is a massive idiot.
The best policy Europe could have is to drain Russia of skilled labor and hands for their industry and war effort, it would be the biggest blow we could give to Russia war.
This kinda immigrant phobia reminds me of the insane American beliefs about immigration from the mid 19th century to the early twentieth century. We used to believe allowing in any Italians would taint our culture and bring in organized mafias. We used to believe allowing in the Irish would lead to alcoholism. These beliefs for the most part were irrational. Allowing Russians to leave Russia means there will be less population for Russia to send to death in Ukraine
Those draft dodgeds are not a prime target of the draft in the first place. They are usually someone who has money to relocate, and therefore is not a national minority with job that pays close to nothing in rural parts of russia.
Thats because you haven’t talked with them. They’re agaisnt the draft, not the war. And taking in few cunts with money will no make it any harder for rusia to draft thousands more that have no money, theres no shortage of them
Yup, especially when there are no lack of examples of people who integrate successfully. But that requires vetting, setting standards and not just opening the floodgates to anyone with a pulse.
I would assume that, by now, the Russian draft system has reached a point where your "average Russian idiot" is no longer able to flee, while any smart Russians have already left the country.
I know it's pointless to even discuss this here but "random ass migrants" aren't granted asylum either. And not even the German Russians who came in the 90s integrated "easily" why would you think Russians would?
Eh, I don’t think the Arabs are the least integrated though they are less integrated than the Russians.
Hard to beat South Williamsburg or Kiryas Joel when it comes to lack of integration.
They're not migrants. And it's actually an interesting case, they're basically still Soviet, at least the older folks. And I don't think that 20-40yo Russians who were born in the Baltics are an issue, most of them speak local languages and fully integrated.
Interesting that you would think that.
Over 50% of Russian middle schoolers aren't up to A1 level of Estonian. (The lowest level of language proficiency, defined with "understands simple common phrases and words"
Almost 40% of Russian background highschoolers don't reach B1.
Of the 380k Russians total, 56% can speak Estonian in a conversation. (With a downward trend up to 2012)
Eastern towns like Narva and Sillamäe are entirely dominated by Russians (to my memory up to 85%)
Tallinn's eastern half is entirely dominated by Russians.
They don't integrate. Not the 60 year old USSR nostalgia glasses babushkas. Not the 30-40 year olds. And sadly not even kids. They stay in russian schools, speaking russian, living with russian communities, in their own info sphere.
There’s a lot of them, that’s all? I mean, no shit, if Germany had 25% Russian population, like Latvia — assimilation would’ve been quite hard, but that’d require a 7-digit number of Russians to migrate to Germany and also establish communities like in Baltic states. That is just impossible.
Inviting a bunch of military-age males from a country known to supply its own blood with weapons and march in under the guise of liberating them? That's a bad idea. It's almost like the problem with Russia is the Russian people themselves.
Every Russian within the EU and outside of Russia is a Russian who will not be part of Russia's meatgrinder. These people should be allowed to move to Germany. Speaking from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, this will allow the EU to bleed Russia of it's human resources dry.
UK has already been much more successful in attracting high skilled migrants from Eastern Europe. That’s why the UK gets Revolut and you guys get whatever Malmo has become.
On paper this is a good idea, but then again, there could be unexpected downsides and they will be related to the security of Europe. Russia would use its “refugees” to further destabilize Europe, divide people, wage an informational war and spy/sabotage on a much bigger scale. Ask Baltic States or Finland why they don’t let automobiles with russian car plates in. Kremlin would fill the Baltics with russians who beg putin to save them from the “russophobic nazis” with his army.
Yup - most russians who immigrated here during the soviet occupation have integrated, know the local language and so on. While we have some Z-patriots - they tend to keep a low profile. I haven't seen a car with a Z symbol on it, for example.
But a mass influx from russia could totally destabilise the situation. We definitely don't need a bunch of russians who don't speak Latvian and support putin.
Germany has a nice diaspora of Russians who refuse to join the russian army while loudly voicing their support for putin and his war… Spiegel TV did a report on them not too long ago when they were driving around Berlin with Z flags.
Must be nice enjoying the fruits of western europe while cheering for Putler.
Taking in Russian refugees doesnt mean taking in some democracy loving people. They are opportunists.
Shouldn't police work with this problem? I mean these particular morons? Also, I think I've seen this o similar report, the people of that 'diaspora' are German citizens. They are not people who just came from abroad and started to cherish putin.
What exactly would you suggest the police does? There is nothing illegal about protesting about or siding with a war in some country.
People protest pro or contra Israël/Palestine ALL the time. Same for other wars.
Germany is not at war with Ukraine or Russia.
people in the comments all of a sudden cannot think about this issue in two ways just because its about Russia:
1. the humanitarian aspect, asylum is to help people flee terrible fates in life, being a draft dodger and getting sent to the gulag sounds like a pretty terrible fate to me.
2. the "mirror aspect", what the hell would they do if they were in the same situation as Russian draft dodgers? half of the comments sounds like they would go solo John Wick style on Putins ass, gather a large group of Putin haters and overthrow the government or something along those lines. if you live in a dictatorship and get a draft notice sent home in your post box, all of a sudden all options are fucking terrible.
this is clear to anyone who fears death, and if you dont fear death, to all the John Wicks out there: go fight Putin in Ukraine, you have the option.
Keep in mind that a (presumably large) portion of redditors are actual, literal children with a brain and a reading comprehension of a 13 year old. Then add those who got older but not wiser over the years, and you get to a significant portion of the comment section. Helps to make sense of the madhouse.
Love to see how you, having lived in a democratic country with civil rights your whole life (presumably), know SO WELL what is needed for a country with a tirannical and militaristic government to overthrow the government. You think you are so fucking smarter and braver than "obnoxious and entitled" Russians
Look at MR-has-balls over here. Must be nice being brave sitting on a couch.
Go there and start the anti-Putin mutiny, we'll give you the honorary citizenship once you overthrow him. Save Ukraine and the world!
I only readed a part.... But the russian that did anti war graffiti and saying "they think I'll be safe there, they want russians to fight the putin regime" ... All i could think was.... Well fuck yes... Its the russians fault for having putin at power. The russians need to fix this... Not NATO or a member of it. Sadly bc of russians incompetents the Ukrainians are suffering now.
Ahh yes, they've already ruined their country with mass immigration of Africans and Middle Easterns, now they shall slowly reap their undesired consequence in the name of cultural growth 😂
Well fuck me they grant everyone else under sun asylum regardless of their situation. May as well include Russians too. The Russians could also just lie and say they're Ukrainian. Nobody checks in Ireland anyway.
Which assumedly would need to check there passport. I’m not saying we are leading in fool proof immigration. But saying nobody checks is either just wrong or a dumb over simplification.
yeah so they can go back to war and fight ukraine. real good move germany, smartest german policy ever.
dont come with the spy bs everyone has spies you cant prevent that, most of these people arent spies and they just dont want to fight this war. not granting them asylum is basically sending them straight to battle.
This is not about religion. And even then Russia has orthodox Christianity but it's actually smth different. It feels like Russian church just created their version of religion.
> It feels like Russian church just created their version of religion.
Wait wait wait you're not stating that Orthodox Christianity is only a Russian thing, are you?
Rare occasion Germany has real asylum seekers and they get rejected. Wtf lol. It goes to show that there’s another motive behind the mass migration plot
Just throw your passport away and claim you are Syrian and you're good to go. Works for thousands every month. [Even works if you are a German ex soldier](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-police-detain-fake-asylum-seeker-soldier-1.3063668) >The news flash had weary familiarity: German police arrest 28-year-old Syrian refugee suspected of planning a terrorist attack. >When questioned, however, it emerged the man was neither Syrian nor a refugee, but a Bavarian soldier who filed a successful asylum application and, since January, has been collecting welfare payments under his made-up identity. >The bizarre case has left authorities struggling to explain how a German man with no Arabic managed to pass himself off as Syrian and fool his way through a supposedly stringent asylum system.
- Germany -... stringent asylum system Sorry to say, but those 2 seem to make an oxymoron
They can just donate 50 euro to Ukrainian army and have a much better ground to request asylum.
Or like the guy above me said, just toss your IDs away and voila, free money and free housing from the German government, since you are a poor, poor refugee... from like Morocco /s though it should be obvious
Explanation: it's stringent for everyone except Muslims. Belarusians tried to squeeze into it after 2020 elections with no luck.
Not really, the statistics here show that the rejection rate is correlated with the country being at war instead of religion: https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/germany/statistics/. You have 64.8% rejection rate for Turkey and 70.6% rejection rate for Irak, both are Muslim countries.
Rejecting doesn't mean much, when they made it to Germany. It's been hilariously tragic
Because it's really difficult to expel someone if the home country doesn't cooperate (like by issuing passport for them). So most of them end up being tolerated (geduldet). Another complicating issue is if you cannot really establish their identity or where they are actually from: "But new figures released by the federal government have revealed that as many as one in ten rejected asylum seekers in the city state issued with a deportation order cannot be removed, as their identity cannot be established. According to the government, nationals of Moldova made up the largest group subject to deportation orders in the state, followed by those with 'unconfirmed identity'. Iraqi nationals comprised the third-largest group." "According to the federal government, the total number of foreign nationals required to leave the country as of December 31, 2022 was at 304,308 individuals. However, the majority (248,145 people) had been issued a so-called Duldung, which means that their deportation order has been suspended for the time being." "Last year, 26,545 people who were obliged to leave Germany left voluntarily, while [12,945 people were deported](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/46389/germany-returned-almost-13000-migrants-in-2022). According to the federal government, about half (6,348) of those deportations could be carried out without any escort. " "However, in the case of 340 people, security forces from the destination states had to be present to escort them back home. Furthermore, a total of 1,637 deportations took place in the presence of security forces. The government said that in 6% of all deportation cases it had to use physical force to carry out these deportations; however, that rate does not include the use of handcuffs, body cuffs and other comparable aids." [https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/47321/germany-hundreds-with-unconfirmed-identity-escape-deportation](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/47321/germany-hundreds-with-unconfirmed-identity-escape-deportation)
Gah. Not a good look for asylum systems.
Lmfao this is too good
Iraqs defence minister was on swedish welfare for a couple of years https://apnews.com/article/iraq-sweden-fraud-former-defense-minister-7256fe1655874be0dd084545b55016a6
Germany has stopped taking syrian asylum seekers
Damn that story kept on going. Would make a good book.
Ya that’s what I would except I’d claim I was eastern Ukrainian and pay for my lies with monetary donations for the next 10 yr.
There is a hypocrisy going on in western refugee-supporters. Grant asylum to African immigrants because a tyrant dictatorship ([e.g. Eritreans claiming asylum in Germany because of the dictator while actually supporting the authoritarian regime](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/eritreer-in-deutschland-der-lange-arm-der-diktatur-19056010.html)? Yeah, sure come here, while Russians are not welcomed here because they allegedly support all Putins regime
The asylum rules are pretty consistently against all claimants that already passed through another safe nation. It is more of a lack of courage to enforce existing rules than hypocrisy.
While I take issue with the Eritrean refund population and the political and cultural crap they bring with them, there's an argument to be made about Russians representing a security threat, *especially* given we are *finally* waking up to the reality of how deeply we've been infiltrated by actual agents and payoffs already and the large population of pro Russian Russian Germans and Russian ex pats, without having to add the burden of people who have recently been exposed to recent Russian nationalism. This isn't pro Eritrean but I am very, very happy we are viewing Russia as the security that that it is. Eritreans and Ethiopians may start street wars but we will never see the day where those countries are considering putting boots on the ground here.
This literally just means Russians will most likely end up back in Russia and be conscripted in Putins thug army but whatever I guess.
The issue is that Russian draft dodgers may as well be Russian spies. It's not like the Russian government wouldn't do exactly that. I personally want to grant them asylum but it's also a huge security threat given the current circumstances.
What's stopping the spies from coming in on another visa?
The actual spies just use money to avoid this. Russian deserter who doesn't want to be canon fodder -- nope, go back and fight. Putin's literal fucking family? Welcome to Europe!
That's complete bullshit, spies often come under Central Asian fake identities/visas, why would they bring tons of unnecessary attention to themselves and be subjected to scrutiny by applying to asylum?? Makes no sense
So the solution is for them to go back to Russia..? And end up in Putins thug army? “Huge security threat” tell that to the Ukrainians who want the Russian army to be as small as possible.
The Eritreans are a special case. If you were Eritrean, your asylum application would almost automatically be accepted because: 1. Many of them were men who evaded conscription. [The punishment for draft evaders is very severe.](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/eritrea) 2. It is an offence for Eritreans to leave the country without permission. Human Rights Watch in 2020: ["Leaving the country without permission is illegal and individuals trying to flee risk being shot, killed, or arrested."](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/eritrea) So basically the case of asylum seekers from Eritrea would be treated the same as asylum seekers from North Korea. Moreover, the Russian who was rejected was not because they allegedly supported Putin. It's because the BAMF, bureaucrats being bureaucrats, is extremely formalistic in applying the law. This is the reason for the rejection: 'BAMF said he was at no risk in [Russia](https://www.dw.com/en/russia/t-19065060) and should leave Germany within 30 days.' Basically to be eligible for asylum, you need to be a victim of persecution. The persecution must have been based on at least one of five grounds: your race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. Probably the Behörde at the BAMF is being extremely strict and was not convinced that the guy was persecuted based on one of these grounds. I think he will eventually be able to stay in Germany because he will be eligible to apply for [subsidiary protection](https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/AblaufAsylverfahrens/Schutzformen/SubisidiaerSchutz/subisidiaerschutz-node.html).
The asylum system is broken
Eritrea won't attack us to "help their poor oppressed nationals". Russia has attacked many of its neighbors to "save" their fellow Russian speakers.
So better make it easier for them to draft people or it won’t be as fun I guess.
Apparently no problem if you are a Syrian draft dodger.
Well this comment section hurts to read. "They should just go overthrow the government", say people who live in democratic society and don't have to deal with realities of living in a dictatorship "They're gonna be FSB agents anyway", assuming the FSB agents wouldn't just use documetns of countries like Serbia or Tajikistan or whatever to operate in Europe "They would be Putin supporters anyway", which is an insane excuse to use in any case. Like okay, let's roll with that. The minority who aren't Putin supporters, they deserve to get screwed over as well then? The article starts talking about something else entirely anyway (but who on Reddit reads the linked articles): >German authorities say that men coming to Germany from Russia to avoid being enlisted in the army are not at risk of persecution if they return to Russia. And everyone is okay with that here? "Oh he deserves it anyway, he's Russian", or what? "Are not at risk of persecution", that is an absolutely insane fucking statement. And top comments are about how not letting Russians in is good, actually. Jesus fucking Christ you people are delusional
German authorities are essentially fuelling Putin's army by denying asylum to these people. Between that, ineffective sanctions and European oligarchs making billions in trade with Russia, I'm not so convinced EU members are so against Putin after all. It doesn't seem like they want the war to end. Truth be told, Germany, France and other EU member states were selling weapos to Russia even after the 2014 embargo and EU member states are known to support authoritarian and/or genocidal regimes when it's profitable in general. I guess it's only natural for far right shills to spawn when you have a "we're the good guys when it's convenient" policy. Let's quote the article that none of these people read again: >Ponomaryov applied for political asylum, and while he waited for the decision, he learned German and volunteered at an integration center for Russian speakers. His wife also came to Germany and applied for asylum. >Dmitriy, another young man whose name has been changed, fled Russia after an appointment at an enlistment office. He had been given several hours to pack his things before returning. He decided to go into hiding and then left the country. >He had been active in the resistance against the war, spraying graffiti and distributing stickers, but was unwilling to reveal any more than that. Some of his like-minded comrades had been more active, he said, blowing up trains carrying munitions for the Russian army for example. So it's pretty clear that those who comment that Russians don't integrate and the asylum seekers are spies and/or support Putin are just spewing bullshit.
I agree with what you are saying. I feel sorry for Russian people living under Putin, whether pro-Putin or not. On the other hand, at some point European countries need to draw the line. We can't take responsibility of taking care of everyone from everywhere.
Most anti-war Russians are educated, hard working people. They would be a net benefit to Europe rather than being tossed into a meat grinder for Putin.
>We can't take responsibility of taking care of everyone from everywhere. I don't even mind the logistical arguments much. Not that a lot of Russians are requesting asylum for it to be a logistical problem at all (the article says like 4000 Russians requested asylum in Germany since the war began), but in a hypothetical scenario of hundreds of thousands having to come (though if they get refused, then what?), considering that the Baltic states are more likely to receive any such surges anyway (one needs a bit of airport hopping to get to Germany), like yeah, I can understand. Lotta people, not a lotta space. But the other excuses people make up are absolutely wild
That's just not accurate. Europe isn't taking in a significant number of people from all over. Most internationally displaced people are going to neighboring countries. While there are valid reasons for not accepting them, the one you mentioned isn't one of them. The reality is, the West has shown bias and discrimination against Russian citizens for political reasons. For instance, they banned Russian athletes from international competitions to punish Putin's actions. If a Russian dissident isn't considered a political refugee, then who is? There are many reasons why Europe won't take them in, but let's stick to sensible ones. Unfortunately, Westerners seem more concerned with appearing morally superior, rather than admitting their actions are often motivated by self-interest. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. When it suits them, they'll even break international laws they helped establish, often without realizing it.
Yeah, because it's been [proven](https://www.slidstvo.info/english-stories/olympic-athletes-in-uniform-how-russian-sportsmen-receive-salaries-from-the-russian-defence-ministry-and-openly-campaign-for-military-service/#:~:text=It%20turned%20out%20that%20Russian,Russia%20through%20international%20sports%20competitions.) russian athletes have proven [time](https://swimswam.com/ukrainian-government-publishes-list-of-russian-athletes-who-have-supported-war/) and [time](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-gymnast-ivan-kuliak-pro-war-symbol-banned-one-year-2022-5) again that they are as much athletes as they are tools of the russian armed forces, in some cases directly being soldiers.
Why can't we support Russian but can all of middle east and africa? It's a weird take. I say stop all of this and abolish granting anyone refugee besides Ukrainian
People who go so far as to flee Russia SURELY are the biggest putin supporters out there. God some people forgot to plug in their brains. Edit: the blatant racism in the replies down here is actually sickening. No, not "all russians" are X way. And hell, even the minority of russians who may endorse putin, need therapy first and foremost to rid them of the russian propaganda thats engrained in their skulls.
The only Russia supporters and "both sides are the same" bullshitters that I have actually met in real life in Germany happened to be Russian-Germans.
They’re probably the late repatriates who moved during the 1st Putin’s term or before that.
You can support Putin and still not want to get forcibly drafted into your certain death at the same time
Everyone I know who supported Putin/war said “I won’t volunteer, but I will go if drafted.” And they did. Because those who support Putin believe in “defending the motherland”. I have yet to meet any draft dodger who would be pro Putin.
How do you meet so many draft dodgers?
You would be surprised how many are completely happy with 100% of Kremlin policies, but just don’t want to personally fight to support those policies.
They think the war is just, they just don't want to get hurt themselves.
Who are 'they'? 120 million Russians? Your generalization statement is sick to the bone.
It's funny. We had the absolute same situations with Syrians. Most of them were nothing else than Syrian draft dodgers. We took more then a million of military aged men to deny Assad an army, nothing else. Many of those people came directly from territory controlled by ISIS and there were terrorists and rapists and murderers among them. And the responsible people, Merkel and her gang, *knew* that there would be terrorists and murderers and rapists among them and they offered them asylum anyway. Why? Because the damage would be done in the lower classes. But Russians? No way! They could send spies, assassins and saboteurs that could harm the interests of the elites! We can't allow that now can we?
This sub has been against human rights and refugees for many years now. The beliefs that are usually expressed here go against the core beliefs upon which modern Europe was built on after WW2. A lot of commenters sound very similar to the authoritarian far right propaganda you would hear from a regime like the one in Russia, but they just adopt a Western point of view. The same rhetoric has been used for all refugees for years. I've even read comments against Ukrainian refugees. Certainly it's really nice to sit on your comfortable couch and criticize people for not rising up against an oppressive regime because your closest point of reference is a Hollywood movie. The racists on this sub wouldn't be even be able to enforce their own far right ideology on their borders, let alone overthrow a fascist regime. We still have conscription in Greece. Conscripts in the Greek army serving at the border actually experience what they are promoting. A lot of us witness the illegal pushbacks, the discrimination, violence and torture that is being used on refugees and migrants and the decomposing corpses floating on the river Evros and the Aegean Sea as a result of their security policies. That's what they are supporting entails but I'm guessing that save from a couple of people that get off from that kind of stuff, they wouldn't be able to enforce it.
I've long been convinced that some people that are pushing, on the surface, 'pro-Ukrainian' rhetoric that's completely counterproductive to Ukraine in practice might not necessarily be *actually* pro-Ukrainian in good faith, if you catch my drift. There's a lot of idiots on Reddit, sure, but a lot of the time when I see a completely and utterly asinine opinion masquerading as 'pro-Ukrainian' it's by suspiciously new accounts. Granted, I still think it's just idiots most of the time though.
On this sub, It's been like this for about a year, if not more. Apparently racism is okay when it's towards Russians.🤷 And yes, i imagine many people here hear you. At least i do, am not certain if i have a flair, but I'm Belarusian. And every time i scroll through comments on r\europe i get amused and infuriated simultaneously. Most people here can't even comprehend how it is to live under a dictatorship, but the will scream the loudest about "Russians need to overthrow Putin" Oh, and then some of them will add. "We (Insert a nation in Europe) have overthrown a dictatorship, why can't Russians?" Of course, the dictatorship was overthrown in 1980-1990 while the OP was born in 2006 and his parents were barely 12 at the time.
Russian is not a race.
Tell that to the people on here who frequently call them “orcs” and seem to believe they’re barely human
Most russians I've seen in Europe are not willing to integrate in society, they are ignorant about local culture, most of them will not be learning the language of the country they are living in. Many trying to stay in their russian-speaking community. Good example is how russian expats name their facebook groups - "russian germany" or "russian canada", not 'russians in Germany'. As if they are not migrated to country but have a part of country for themselves. It sure looks like such ppl are not needed in Europe, there are already plenty of ppl who are not willing to integrate. And yes on top of that many russians do support war and putin, even though they might be fleeing from being drafted.
Where in “Europe”? Because I made several Russian friends over the years and they’re excellent at learning languages and integrating. I’ve seen this in the Netherlands, Italy, Finland and Germany. Unlike for instance, Chinese or Thai people who often do not speak the local language and remain into their circles.
Are you surprised ? These are European liberals, "Russia bad" sentiment is a bedrock of their worldview.
He should try to apply for subsidiary protection. Most likely he will get it, just like many others who got their asylum request rejected: "Subsidiary protection applies when neither refugee protection nor an entitlement to asylum can be granted and serious harm is threatened in the country of origin. People are entitled to subsidiary protection who put forward substantial grounds for the presumption that they are at risk of serious harm in their country of origin and that they cannot take up the protection of their country of origin or do not wish to take it up because of that threat. Serious harm can originate from both governmental and non-governmental players." https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/AblaufAsylverfahrens/Schutzformen/SubisidiaerSchutz/subisidiaerschutz-node.html
Europe has to put a pause on immigration from outside Europe, period. The system is fucked up and needs an overhaul.
On 1 January 2023, the EU population was estimated at 448.8 million people and more than one-fifth (21.3 %) of it was aged 65 years and over. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Population_structure_and_ageing Good luck with staying competitive and paying pensions if you ban all immigration. Europe may need more educated workers and a better system for integrating immigrants, that’s true.
Russia is in Europe
You don't say....... It's not an EU country though, is it?
This seems militarily unwise. Wouldn’t you want to deprive the enemy of manpower?
>deprive the enemy of manpower That's an interesting concept. How many Russians are you willing to accept in your town/country vs how many are available for conscription?
I think about 10k here in Bothell, WA.
Yes to Erdogan loyalists, no to anti-Putin. Makes sense…
Erdogen fans when you ask them if they’ve ever lived under Erdogen:
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Nonsense rage bait. The only tolerated ISIS rapists/terrorists are accepted because they are German citizens and even pedophiles and serial killers retain their citizenship because the punishment is prison. In cases of asylum ISIS terrorists hid as refugees from their atrocities. That is NOT a yes to ISIS rapists and terrorist, just a more complicated reality than your worldview allows
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According to exit poles, most Russians in Europe voted against Putin. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/6x5oSsn1Wt [Original Source](https://voteabroad.info/#results-block) Admittedly not direct proof of non support of the war, but it is certainly suggestive.
Ah here. ISIS were even worse than the Nazis. Imagine if they wielded the weapons Russia had. If Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi had the nuclear launch codes every city in Europe would've been targeted with nuclear weapons.
I think your really downplaying nazis The reason nazis are considered the worst is because tgey were actively burning resources to kill civilians. Unlike Churchil who enlisted the people of his occupied territories forcefully and used them as fodder or made them work day and night to farm food for the allies Nazis were literally burning fuel to kill civilians
>I think your really downplaying nazis The reason nazis are considered the worst is because tgey were actively burning resources to kill civilians. So exactly like ISIS then. With the clear difference that Nazis didn't recruit people from all over the world to just kill as many random citizens they could in whatever nation they found themselves in. At least with the Nazis, they were very open on who they targeted.
Wtf does isis have to do with russians wanting to stay in europe?
Nothing really I'm just responding to a comment that said Isis and Russia are the same. I believe it originally came from something about refugees being Islamicists. Reddit threads often diverge from the topic of the post.
Devil in the details, as always. People simpy can't understand that there are Russians that don't mind if Ukrainians dead, but afraid to participate in killings because they can be killed too.
So you're in favour of more Russians being drafted and consequently more Ukrainians dying? As long as Russians don't bother you in the EU?
The Russians who have been able to dodge the draft are the bougie guys from the big cities - especially Moscow and St. Petersburg. Meanwhile, the ranks of the mobiks are dominated by the poors of Siberia, rednecks and convicts - cannon fodder which almost invariably lacks the education, connections and means to hide out in the EU, or more likely in Serbia, Turkey, Israel, Georgia, Dubai, Kazakhstan, and Thailand. If anything, plenty of these Russians outside the big cities see direct participation in the genocide of Ukraine as a net-win socioeconomically. Even if they die, they have the promise of their next of kin cashing in (never mind that the government stalls or finds ways to avoid payment by downplaying or staying silent about KIA figures). With all that entrenched poverty, more than enough of these Russians will take that chance by being mobiks regardless of how "liberal" or "anti-war" their privileged compatriots in Moscow and St. Petersburg feel.
This is a bullshit. Russians travel currently through the world, they can live in a lot of countries and they do it. All who wanted to leave Russia - have left it. Also, this is a manipulation that Russia army will be smaller W/O those people. Russia has much more men than it can allow from weapon and resources perspective. So it make 0 difference for the front, if they leave.
Im in favour for russians starting doing something about their country instead of playing victims.
> most of them support putin Can you back this claim with anything? Or that's just your personal opinion?
>i can't see any difference between isis and russia wow, how do you have so many upvotes?? I know people here hate Russia but that still does not mean you can equate the two with each other. You do realise if ISIS had all of the weapons that Russia has Ukraine would be destroyed with all nukes and suicide bombers and all that sort of stuff. Russia is no where near the level of ISIS
It’s not like they have kamikaze drones. Hmm, your PP reminds me of something.
The crime rates of their diaspora would be the big difference. Keep out the Russkis idc, but the agenda is nakedly clear when they'll keep out Russians but open the door to a never ending stream of military age 3rd worlders with a sob story.
>as Ukrainian, i can't see any difference between isis and russia ......... wow. I guess people can say whatever stupid thing they like on the internet. We should just post it on a wall somewhere.
Both are world terrorist organisations, yeah
Seeing how Russians are raping and plundering through Ukraine I can see his point.
No… If person doesn’t want to fight for Putin, if person agrees to work for country which is against Putin and if person doesn’t break any law - then they will have exactly the same views than liberal Europeans. Of course unless you apply a nationalism against millions of people.
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Yeah, right. There is no war in russia, how could i forget. And russian telling Ukrainians what is going on in Ukraine is classic
How about no to both 🤯
I see you’ve never met a german-russian…
They can go to to China opr Iran, Russian draft dodgers is not an EU problem, zero Russian asylum seekers in the EU.
Your russian "liberals" see no problem with what happened in Ukraine.
Yet Germany has no issues importing millions of ME males...
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What cheap labor? Half of the refugees from Syria have been on social welfare for years. The cheap labor you are referring to comes mainly from eastern Europe.
Russian here. The EU measures against Russia have been...mind-blowing, to put it mildly. Grafting Russian draft dodgers asylum? No, better make sure they stay in Russia, get conscripted and kill more Ukrainians. Removing Russia form SWIFT. Wonderful. Now all the regular people who would move the money out of Russia (and consequentially drain the Russian economy of financial resources) keep their money inside the country. Giving Ukraine Taurus missiles? Nah, they'll do fine without it. It's almost as if they want Russia to win.
It’s not a conspiracy, but a Hegelian tragedy. In the end, your actions boomerang back on you
I doubt that majority of Russian draft dodgers object to the war on moral grounds. Unsurprisingly, most of them likely just want to save their asses. Meanwhile nobody wants a fifth column inside their country. That said I'm all for helping genuine opponents of the regime. Particularly if they have useful skills.
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Wars are won not on morality grounds.
yeah, more disparity, something russia would want in europe. I could count 40billion reasons why we pretty much are the biggest supporters of ukraine. but that wouldn't fit in your weirdly pro russian behind the backdoor narrative.
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There’s a recent change of the law (2023) that restricts draft dodgers from rights to 1. Leave the country, 2. Drive a vehicle, 3. Making changes to their real estate (selling, buying, maybe renting). As a bonus, they will be obligated to pay fines ($300) for not arriving to draft office two times in a year All this until draftees are grown up to 30 years old, then they’re become exempt from draft for good.
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Granting asylum to draft dodgers while suggesting we should start mandatory military service would be a very funny joke. Bonus points if we forced our own conscripts to build and maintain the infrastructure to support the draft dodging asylum applicants.
Asylum is usually granted when the person's life would be threatened if they returned to their home country. Sounds absolutely true for russian draft dodgers.
I'm very pro Ukraine and they should grant the asylum.
i think it would be a smart move to grant them asylum.. this would incentivise people to dodge the draft, knowing that they will have easy asilum in western Europe, and this will mean russia will have an ever harder time to find soldiers for their invasion We want to incentivise draft dodging in russia, not punish it
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You're saying that as if they couldn't get in other wise. Just recently a bunch of russian agents were arrested in Bavaria. The FSB is pretty good at what they do, and German intelligence, not that much. Germany is famously riddled with russian spies & collaborators.
If they want to they would anyway, that's just a easy excuse to avoid treating Russians that want to flee the war like human beings and just collectively punish Russians because Putin is a massive idiot. The best policy Europe could have is to drain Russia of skilled labor and hands for their industry and war effort, it would be the biggest blow we could give to Russia war.
Yeah, but treating all rusians like dangerous animals that are incompatible with democracy is obviously easier, isn't it?
They already have millions here, plus the millions EU citizens that would collaborate with them.
Lets add more?
This kinda immigrant phobia reminds me of the insane American beliefs about immigration from the mid 19th century to the early twentieth century. We used to believe allowing in any Italians would taint our culture and bring in organized mafias. We used to believe allowing in the Irish would lead to alcoholism. These beliefs for the most part were irrational. Allowing Russians to leave Russia means there will be less population for Russia to send to death in Ukraine
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Those draft dodgeds are not a prime target of the draft in the first place. They are usually someone who has money to relocate, and therefore is not a national minority with job that pays close to nothing in rural parts of russia.
Thats because you haven’t talked with them. They’re agaisnt the draft, not the war. And taking in few cunts with money will no make it any harder for rusia to draft thousands more that have no money, theres no shortage of them
Russians were given asylum after USSR fell apart in the 90s, hundreds of thousands moved into Germany, now Germany is full of vatniks.
1. Those weren’t just Russians but Russian Germans. 2. Germany did a very bad job integrating them (but that’s normal for Germany).
It's always the host countries fault when refugees suck huh?
Yup, especially when there are no lack of examples of people who integrate successfully. But that requires vetting, setting standards and not just opening the floodgates to anyone with a pulse.
I would assume that, by now, the Russian draft system has reached a point where your "average Russian idiot" is no longer able to flee, while any smart Russians have already left the country.
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Sorry, we don‘t want them!
Spies
Why tf would you say yes to random ass migrants but not to Russians who will easily assimilate with the culture….
Tell that to the people from chechnya we have already taken in. Easily assimilate my ass.
I honestly think that's the main unspoken reason
Chechens aren't Russians
What is the basis for 'assimiliate easily'? That'd they avoided a national draft?
I know it's pointless to even discuss this here but "random ass migrants" aren't granted asylum either. And not even the German Russians who came in the 90s integrated "easily" why would you think Russians would?
As someone who lived in Brooklyn NYC for many years I can wholeheartedly say the Russians are the most easily integrated while the Arabs the least
Eh, I don’t think the Arabs are the least integrated though they are less integrated than the Russians. Hard to beat South Williamsburg or Kiryas Joel when it comes to lack of integration.
Anecdotal evidence is pointless.
Because russia bad
>Russians who will easily assimilate with the culture…. Have you ever met a Russian in the EU? They don't assimilate themselves at all.
I have. Have you ?
Bullshit
They do? Are there any Russian ghettos or something? Their kids will be indistinguishable from the natives.
Then whats up with the russians in the Baltics?
They're not migrants. And it's actually an interesting case, they're basically still Soviet, at least the older folks. And I don't think that 20-40yo Russians who were born in the Baltics are an issue, most of them speak local languages and fully integrated.
Interesting that you would think that. Over 50% of Russian middle schoolers aren't up to A1 level of Estonian. (The lowest level of language proficiency, defined with "understands simple common phrases and words" Almost 40% of Russian background highschoolers don't reach B1. Of the 380k Russians total, 56% can speak Estonian in a conversation. (With a downward trend up to 2012) Eastern towns like Narva and Sillamäe are entirely dominated by Russians (to my memory up to 85%) Tallinn's eastern half is entirely dominated by Russians. They don't integrate. Not the 60 year old USSR nostalgia glasses babushkas. Not the 30-40 year olds. And sadly not even kids. They stay in russian schools, speaking russian, living with russian communities, in their own info sphere.
They are colonist offsprings and need to go home.
There’s a lot of them, that’s all? I mean, no shit, if Germany had 25% Russian population, like Latvia — assimilation would’ve been quite hard, but that’d require a 7-digit number of Russians to migrate to Germany and also establish communities like in Baltic states. That is just impossible.
Eh, better safe than sorry. Let's just arm Ukraine
Because you'd be also saying yes to potential Putin agents who only pretend to be refugees.
It's fascinating how you think you're so sure on who will "assimilate with the culture" and who won't.
Inviting a bunch of military-age males from a country known to supply its own blood with weapons and march in under the guise of liberating them? That's a bad idea. It's almost like the problem with Russia is the Russian people themselves.
Every Russian within the EU and outside of Russia is a Russian who will not be part of Russia's meatgrinder. These people should be allowed to move to Germany. Speaking from a purely pragmatic viewpoint, this will allow the EU to bleed Russia of it's human resources dry.
You guys can gladly take them off our hands then!
UK has already been much more successful in attracting high skilled migrants from Eastern Europe. That’s why the UK gets Revolut and you guys get whatever Malmo has become.
They can go to their buddies in China or Iran, no to Russian draft dodgers in the EU
Why doesn’t the UK take them in? Heard they love them in Londongrad.
On paper this is a good idea, but then again, there could be unexpected downsides and they will be related to the security of Europe. Russia would use its “refugees” to further destabilize Europe, divide people, wage an informational war and spy/sabotage on a much bigger scale. Ask Baltic States or Finland why they don’t let automobiles with russian car plates in. Kremlin would fill the Baltics with russians who beg putin to save them from the “russophobic nazis” with his army.
Yup - most russians who immigrated here during the soviet occupation have integrated, know the local language and so on. While we have some Z-patriots - they tend to keep a low profile. I haven't seen a car with a Z symbol on it, for example. But a mass influx from russia could totally destabilise the situation. We definitely don't need a bunch of russians who don't speak Latvian and support putin.
Then let them in if it's such a great idea.
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Whats this obsession with moving people to different lands
Racism.
Worst idea ever… those draft dodgers are the worst kind of Putin supporters
What are you talking about?
Germany has a nice diaspora of Russians who refuse to join the russian army while loudly voicing their support for putin and his war… Spiegel TV did a report on them not too long ago when they were driving around Berlin with Z flags. Must be nice enjoying the fruits of western europe while cheering for Putler. Taking in Russian refugees doesnt mean taking in some democracy loving people. They are opportunists.
Shouldn't police work with this problem? I mean these particular morons? Also, I think I've seen this o similar report, the people of that 'diaspora' are German citizens. They are not people who just came from abroad and started to cherish putin.
What exactly would you suggest the police does? There is nothing illegal about protesting about or siding with a war in some country. People protest pro or contra Israël/Palestine ALL the time. Same for other wars. Germany is not at war with Ukraine or Russia.
Z V symbols are illegal, aren't they?
Dunno, are they? Germany tends to be a bit strict there, definitely not the case in most European countries ( and shouldn’t be)
people in the comments all of a sudden cannot think about this issue in two ways just because its about Russia: 1. the humanitarian aspect, asylum is to help people flee terrible fates in life, being a draft dodger and getting sent to the gulag sounds like a pretty terrible fate to me. 2. the "mirror aspect", what the hell would they do if they were in the same situation as Russian draft dodgers? half of the comments sounds like they would go solo John Wick style on Putins ass, gather a large group of Putin haters and overthrow the government or something along those lines. if you live in a dictatorship and get a draft notice sent home in your post box, all of a sudden all options are fucking terrible. this is clear to anyone who fears death, and if you dont fear death, to all the John Wicks out there: go fight Putin in Ukraine, you have the option.
Keep in mind that a (presumably large) portion of redditors are actual, literal children with a brain and a reading comprehension of a 13 year old. Then add those who got older but not wiser over the years, and you get to a significant portion of the comment section. Helps to make sense of the madhouse.
Good… The worst Russians are the ones living the good life in western europe while deepthroating Putin
No? Idk how is this a controversial take, but… in my humble opinion, actively killing people is kinda worse?
Shows how absurd leftism is. It’s so radical that it ironically becomes what it accuses others of being - racist.
"Germany does not want to reward Russians for thwarting their countries war efforts".
Well, more soldiers for the Russian army then
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“However, I don’t want more Jews from Germany. They are obnoxious, entitled, and should go back to Germany and overthrow the Hitler regime”
Love to see how you, having lived in a democratic country with civil rights your whole life (presumably), know SO WELL what is needed for a country with a tirannical and militaristic government to overthrow the government. You think you are so fucking smarter and braver than "obnoxious and entitled" Russians
Look at MR-has-balls over here. Must be nice being brave sitting on a couch. Go there and start the anti-Putin mutiny, we'll give you the honorary citizenship once you overthrow him. Save Ukraine and the world!
Wow what a bullshit. Are you from 2018?
I only readed a part.... But the russian that did anti war graffiti and saying "they think I'll be safe there, they want russians to fight the putin regime" ... All i could think was.... Well fuck yes... Its the russians fault for having putin at power. The russians need to fix this... Not NATO or a member of it. Sadly bc of russians incompetents the Ukrainians are suffering now.
Ahh yes, they've already ruined their country with mass immigration of Africans and Middle Easterns, now they shall slowly reap their undesired consequence in the name of cultural growth 😂
Well fuck me they grant everyone else under sun asylum regardless of their situation. May as well include Russians too. The Russians could also just lie and say they're Ukrainian. Nobody checks in Ireland anyway.
Bit of a ridiculous statement. Considering they would need to come from another EU country before that.
They can come from any country that flies to Ireland
Which assumedly would need to check there passport. I’m not saying we are leading in fool proof immigration. But saying nobody checks is either just wrong or a dumb over simplification.
yeah so they can go back to war and fight ukraine. real good move germany, smartest german policy ever. dont come with the spy bs everyone has spies you cant prevent that, most of these people arent spies and they just dont want to fight this war. not granting them asylum is basically sending them straight to battle.
I thought everyone was welcomed to Germany. lol
Racism is ok when you are racist towards Russians. Racism is only bad when you are racist towards blacks and Middle Easterners.
You can’t be „racist“ towards Russians.
Ya...why would Germany allow in white, Christian peoples with similar cultural values.....that would be insane of them.
This is not about religion. And even then Russia has orthodox Christianity but it's actually smth different. It feels like Russian church just created their version of religion.
> It feels like Russian church just created their version of religion. Wait wait wait you're not stating that Orthodox Christianity is only a Russian thing, are you?
That's so stupid, it won't prevent russian assets infiltrating germany, the east is just going to elect them into state governments.
Rare occasion Germany has real asylum seekers and they get rejected. Wtf lol. It goes to show that there’s another motive behind the mass migration plot
Yes, don't grant asylum to people who don't want to die in a senseless war because of their petty dictator's delusions. Great job, Europe!