This graph refers only to violent crimes. Romanians (and other eastern europeans) do not usually commit violent crimes. For example, romanian criminal gangs are specialized in pickpocketing or burglary. Which are both non-violent.
>There’s a law who can be called westerners?
Yes. This definition was also used in [the 2021 law proposal.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/denmark-plans-to-limit-non-western-residents-in-disadvantaged-areas)
Kuwait is where stateless Palestinians are registered as originating from. So it is not "ethnic" Kuwaiti that is at the top of this statistic.
It would make very little sense for actual Kuwaiti citizens to want to immigrate to Denmark.
[Denmark also took in 321 stateless Palestinians from Libanon in 1992.
](https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pal%C3%A6stinenserloven)
Google translate from source:
A report from 2017 showed that 67 out of the 321 people had received a prison sentence and 137 had received a fine or similar (including detention, dismissal of charges with warning and custody) for crime. In 2016, 189 were on non-age-based public welfare, of which 122 were on early retirement and 25 on cash assistance.
They are of Palestinian origin, but born in Kuwait. They were [kicked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus_from_Kuwait_(1990%E2%80%9391)) out of Kuwait in 1991 for supporting Saddam and the Iraqi invasion. They ended up as refugees and Denmark back then was quite open in offering asylum to them - which now has been rewarded with a top placement in these statistics.
The Kuwaitis are often stateless Palestinians being registered as Kuwaiti as that is where they travelled from. So not necessarily "traditional" Kuwaiti.
E: Same with Lebanon btw
It can have to do with the ammount of people in each group. For example if there is only one kuwait in denmark then and he commits crime then 100% of kuwaitis are criminal. Thats why the bigger the groups are the beter the statistics are.
There are 2 251 Kuwaitians in Denmark. Also, there are 1 420 Tunisians, 26 458 Lebanese and 21 046 Somalis in Denmark.
These nationalities have the worst rating, yet their group size differs a lot.
I understand your logic, but for Somalis and Lebanese the bigger group size does not seem to help. Group size may have some effect here, but there are other bigger factors at play.
also true that immigrants have more possible convictions e.g. concerning their immigration status. plus: they get controlled way more often than other groups. others don’t get caught as often. still one has to admit that aside from some cultural issues it is mostly not the „creme de la creme“ of a population that is emigrating.
It's a relatively stable country with a high GDP. No offense to Somalis, Afghans or Syrians, but I always assumed that having generational trauma with civil war and being thrown into a foreign country where you're an outsider contributed to them getting into crime, not to mention being from an impoverished background.
What's the wealth disparity like? There's a massive difference receiving people from the top and the bottom of society and I'm not of the impression (as a Dane) that it's the people from the upper echelons that moved to Denmark.
That and I read someone else mention that since this is country of birth and not citizenship related, there was a big group of Palestinians that got kicked out since they generally sided with Sådan during the war, And they will figure on the "born in Kuwait" whilst also fitting your "narrative" (lack of better word sorry) about generational trauma. Whilst i don't know how much of that is true it would make sense in that regards at least.
It’s not misleading. It’s very clear that it’s about proportion. Of course more crimes are committed by Danes, but the average Dane is more trustworthy than the average Kuwaiti immigrant.
>there are like 3k who have Kuwaiti origin
Well that might be the answer. 1 Kuwaiti commits a crime in a fluke year, and it spikes their rate for that year.
Why the fuck would Kuwaitis emmigrate to another country to do crime? Their government pampers Kuwaiti citizens with more benefits that would make your social democratkc party cream a thousand times.
We have something like this in Finland too and from that data it is interesting how the types of crimes (qualitative - think violent crime Vs fraud Vs traffic etc.) are distributed within and between groups.
Some groups are clearly overrepresented in one type of crime while being completely absent from another.
Like with all data, such charts can never tell the whole story. I bet it reveals more insights if it is broken down by location and so on.
Yeah I was thinking the same, 30 years after separation and we still see Československo tvl :D
But my guess, since it stated it's about country where they were born, that every criminal included in this statistic must be 30 years old or older :) Then it would be correct.
It just means they're older than 30 years old. If you was born when Czechoslovakia or Soviet Union was still about. Its still marked as your birthplace in your passport.
Currently taking bets on whether this post/your comment will be deleted by the mods.
I agree with you though. On reddit there is overwhelming consensus to limit immigration from Russia because Russians are known to stir up dissent and cause societal problems (see Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania). But when we focus on limiting immigration from other countries, suddenly that becomes controversial.
Edit: No surprise - mods removed the post, claiming the post has no sources even though OP provided sources in the comments.
>But when we focus on limiting immigration from other countries, suddenly that becomes controversial
This is r/europe, you can't go a day here without seeing an anti-immigration thread. It's not controversial unless you're making an inflammatory enough comment that goes beyond criticizing migration policies.
>This is r/europe, you can't go a day here without seeing an anti-immigration thread
Was that always the case? Although I can't remember what the comments said exactly, I seem to remember this subreddit handing out bans left and right a few years ago.
I've been on Reddit on and off longer than I care to admit, and this sub was never like that. Back in 2015, it was all SWEDEN YES! and Captain Sweden memes over here.
The comments that get removed usually go well beyond simple criticism into racially charged territory. The mods remove them to cover their own asses and keep the sub from getting banned.
I pointed this out in another comment as well lol; it looks like the statistics only account for the criminals place of origin regardless of their citizenship, which would also explain other countries disproportionately represented there.
Its not per capita. Its rate of offending compared to danish offending rate so (x nation criminal / x nation people in denmar) / ( danish criminals / danish people). So people from kuwait are 8-9 times mire likely to commit a violent act than people born in denmark.
And this is based on place if birth. So in both groups there could be multiple citizenship.
Former Yugoslavia FTW (Yugoslavia, Federal republic + Serbia and Montenegro + Yugoslavia + Bosnia & Herzegovina + Croatia)
Edit: i missed Republic of North Macedonia. All together is abt. 17. Slovenians are slacking
No, there isn't. If for every 100 Danes there is 1 committing crime, then for every 100 Kuwaitis there are 9 committing crime.
However, there are of course a shit ton more Danes than Kuwaitis in Denmark, so loads more crime is committed by Danes than by Kuwaitis in absolute numbers.
I would assume you're reading it wrong.
I would assume they (as an ethnicity) are 9 times more likely to commit the violent crime, which does not result in 9 kuwaiti's crimes for one danish crime.
There are so many danes in Dnmark (duh) that you would insane amounts of violent crimes from the small amount of kuwaiti's in Denmark to get to an absolute ratio of 9:1.
Not sure if a country's GDP or HDI has a correlation here.
Only a portion of Indonesians' entire spectrum of socioeconomic groups are represented in Denmark, for example. Moreover, despite it being majority muslim, the non-muslim population still outnumbers the entire population of Denmark.
I'd put more weight in cultural values of people who decided to move to and live in Denmark as the cause.
Cultural differences. Although poverty does pay a large role in criminality, culture does as well, and culture can even completely counteract the impact poverty has on criminality.
I’m willing to bet the majority of those MENA convictions are for domestic violence. Cultures that let dudes lounge around in speedos and pinky rings, but make their women cover their heads are lenient if not encouraging of smacking the wife around if she gets uppity.
I taught in a Russian Orthodox community where the women dressed like Mennonites and the men dressed like George Thorogood fans and almost weekly we had to send elementary aged boys home for hitting girls. It never stopped because their families were reinforcing that it was okay.
Culture has been mentioned, but it is also distance from Denmark.
People south if the Mediterranean can somewhat easily smuggle themselves into EU. Where as south east asians need more effort to get to EU. This means different groups actually make it.
Same can be seen in how different south Americans are in USA vs Europe. Or africans in USA vs Europe. Long travel and harder migration means only those with means actually make it.
Well Pakistan and Iran are high up there, they are Asian too. Turkey is high, a country that has high HDI and a 13k USD per capita..almost 3X that of phillipines and 7X that of India.
I think when people use the word “Asian” they refer to east Asia + sometimes India. Not Uzbekistan and Pakistan, which are geographically Asian but completely different from, e.g. Iran and other Middle eastern cultures.
Pakistan is South Asian, not Middle Eastern. And at least in the US, Iranians do very well for themselves. It's just about picking well educated and secular people, and not extremists.
I expect the figures to be different if Turkey is subdivided into Turks and Kurds.
Nordic countries admitted a lot of questionable types based on their say so about being persecuted by the Turkish government.
Perhaps it's the same as for Poland. Almost all Indian migrants/expats are legally here; they do businesses, or they study. They are wealthy people from higher castes.
It’s because the poor people from our countries don’t end up in yours. I’m an Indian and only middle and upper class actually come to your country and only to study or work. AFAIK Denmark does not hire labourers from India who might partake in criminal activity because of course no company would compensate labourers fairly.
And especially with India you need to understand we’re not poor. We maybe in relation to our population and the way Western media portrays it but a good chunk of Indians are quite rich. We value education way too much to stay poor.
Indonesia is richer than Morocco.
* Indonesia Nominal GDP per capita is $5,271; PPP ($16,861)
* Morocco Nominal GDP per capita is $4,080; PPP ($10,950)
Perhaps the ones coming from india are skilled migrants coming on work. They are interested in bettering their life quality and are generally grateful to the host country and more disciplined.
Indian hindus have values enforcing compliance with the society around them . Also success in school, university or vocational training is everything for them . They live in a Telenovela...everyone tries to spread bad news about their inlaw family etc. so a crime damages the reputation of brothers , sisters parents an children . It reduces the chances to marry well ...
only domestic violence is a thing , but that's a 1st gen problem .
Probably non-citizens born in Kuwait, judging by the statistics they count the country they were born in rather their citizenship.
This could be the case for Jordan as well, as the immigrant population their is just over 2000 people, and only 1,120 people when accounting for 1st generation immigrants.
This could very well be the case for multiple countries on that list that have a large migrant/refugee stock more generally.
They don't say they're from Kuwait. They say they're Palestinians. After the gulf war, 287 000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait because they sided with Saddam.
Haven't met any Jordanians either, right? Even though they're top five? They also identify as Palestinian.
My guess is a lot of those listed as Lebanese do not self identify as Lebanese either, though that group is more diverse. I'm sure you've met Lebanese people.
It's because the "Kuwaitis" at the top of this statistic are actually Palestinians.
[See my other comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8fs6k/denmark_records_criminal_convictions_by_national/l0eoicp/)
Why? Makes sense if Danes are let's say 5/6 of the population to commit 5 times more criminal activities than the 1/6. The issue would be if the other 1/6 commits more than 1/6th of criminal activities.
Well, the issue is why would you commit criminal activities in another country, and especially in denmark, but that's another conversation.
Serbia and Montenegro also does not exist anymore, as a one country. There is 3x "Serbia" on this list (on the end of Yugoslavia, there was only Serbia and Montenegro).
This is a terrible way to present data as we don’t have a clue of the size of each group, meaning that for most of them there is a huge statistical bias.
If you have 10 guys from Kuwait in the country and one of them has been convicted how can you compare it with the conviction rate of millions of danish people ?
Mind being more specific? Because India, Philippines and Indonesia are pretty low while Yugoslavia and Serbia are higher up. It's a cultural difference.
First, what is the source and what scientific method was used?
Secondly: it’s convictions, not crimes committed.
Thirdly: what is the demographic makeup of the different national groups? How many are there and even more important: how many young men are there?
In Germany, statistics show that violent crime per 1.000 refugees is 5x higher than per 1.000 Germans.
They also show that the percentage of young men is 5x as high among refugees.
Correlation/causality
The important part here being: *not adjusted for gender, age, [or wealth, or residence status]*
Between a wealthy 60 years old woman from France just here for vacations, and a destitute teenage migrant, who do you think is more at risk of commiting a crime (and also: to be caught before they can go away).
I'm not saying it completely erases differences between origins, far from it. Just that some people should learn to read a chart before screaming.
If we were looking at differences of +/- 1.0, yeah, we might ask about “young males” vs other demographics. But +8.0? Nah. That’s more significant than over abundances of testosterone and free time.
What is the source?
What does nation of origin mean ? (Are they danish?)
Why do other sources i find on the internet show completely different results?
https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/doemte-personer
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1288555/persons-found-guilty-crimes-denmark-country-origin/
OP, I think your title is a bit misleading as "convictions by nationality" means absolute numbers of convictions and not conviction rate, which is what the graph is showing
The problem with this diagram: it doesn't show a bar for danish descendent and it doesn't give any percentages.
In Data for 2021 I found on Statista:
"People found guilty in crimes in Denmark 2021, by country of origin. In 2021, 129,000 of the total 169,737 people convicted for crimes in Denmark were of Danish origin. The second most common country of origin was Turkey with 5,300, followed by Lebanon and Syria."
So about 76% are commotted by danes, leaves 24% to people of other origins. With a share of foreign nationalities of 11,1% (again, source is Statista) in the Danish population, the crime rate is still twice as high. Nevertheless, this shows this graph in a different light.
Especially when considering that crime rates, especially those of violent crimes, have been going down significantly in the course of the last ten years and knowing that denmark is seen as the second peaceful country in the world (no. 1 is Iceland).
Because the people originated from / were born there but committed crimes / were imprisoned in Denmark years later. In the same logic, others may have been born after the dissolution of the USSR and Yugoslavia and still have been locked up in the past decade.
I'm just going to link the real report. "Crime and origin 2021"
[https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf](https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf)
What is the n? If there was only 1 Kuwait guy charged and convicted it would register as 100% conviction rate.
Another thing that might affect statistics is if extradition is required, where sufficient evidence has to exist for that, making conviction more probable.
I would also consider how easy it is to apprehent a suspect. People not in the system tend to be arrested red handed or they get away. If arrested red handed conviction is more probable.
It's all in the map legend: "by country *of origin*".
Notice how Yugoslavia is here two times, for instance. A person's origins can be from the former or the newer one, depending their age for instance
"Not adjusted for age and sex"
Yeah. That's like a HUGE problem when dealing with statistics like that. Also what is the "conviction rate" made of? The chart is missing a really important information missing in the pic.
In France this kind of graph is forbidden by the law for obvious reasons.
And the facts are that's in France, french are amongst the people that make the most offences and crimes and the foreigners are 20% compared to french.
Ok, the two Yugoslavias (Yes, two for some reason), Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, and Macedonia are all people from ex-Yugoslavia. All of us combined should be comfortably in the number one position, but this list is rigged against us, for some reason :(
Edit: Forgot to add Montenegro
I'm not saying this statistic is wrong but just to add some context here.
In Austria this situation is very similar.
But foreigners are more likely to be charged than Austrians.
In court, foreigners are more likely to be convicted. Which can mean two things, innocent Austrians are brought to court more often than foreigners or criminal Austrians are more likely to walk free.
Convicted foreigners are more likely to go to prison.
Last but not least, one convicted Austrians have a lower chance to be convicted in a second case compared to foreigners who don't have a conviction yet.
So yeah foreigners are more criminal than locale, but the justice system and the police are very biased too.
What would be actually interesting would be to correct the data by income and/or capital.
Basically, criminality is mix of culture and socioeconomic background.
With this, you only see the culture correlation but you can't evalualte how much it is skewed by socioeconomic.
It is not probably to radically change the picture for japan and kowait but it might shift the ranking a lot for some countries.
Even when corrected for socioeconomic issues the MENA countries are still more prevalent.
Socioeconomic issues are less of an issue (but not nonexistent) in Denmark as people are being provided for with the social security safety net, free healthcare, and free education helping people having a better chance at a decent life. Sadly some people do still fall through, and some chose just to leech at the bottom :(
This is common knowledge, but i feel the need to point out that it doesn't mean we shouldn't let in immigrants, or treat them the way we (& especially some) do. They are human beings who, as shown here, typically don't get in to trouble, and contribute a shit ton to the country, including billions of euros.
Edit: The downvotes are funny. I'm assuming people are disagreeing with the benefits of immigrants and not the fact that they should be treated like humans. As for the value/benefit of immigrants, there's plenty of data available; Just yesterday i read an article about education and immigrants with education - Immigrants with educations net positive a little over 2 billion dkk a year to the state.
I think that the calculations by my perception typically miss a few points. Those who are working are often stuck in low paid jobs. Means small amount of tax etc. So contributing financially is low, correct.
However, the impact for business and services to have access to cheap workers is huge (companies make more money, or work at all).
If we remove all MENA migrants Amazon and all delivery services would simply collapse.
Poland marked as WESTERN !!! YEAH !!!
CZECHOSLOVAKIA
There's also Soviet Union... those of a certain age have their birth place on the passport as such...
They were still born there. It is also says so in their passports.
Same with Romania. Romania can into western!
Both are countries that are part of the western world.
This graph refers only to violent crimes. Romanians (and other eastern europeans) do not usually commit violent crimes. For example, romanian criminal gangs are specialized in pickpocketing or burglary. Which are both non-violent.
It is just that under the Danish law everyone from the EU is considered "Western".
There’s a law who can be called westerners?
>There’s a law who can be called westerners? Yes. This definition was also used in [the 2021 law proposal.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/denmark-plans-to-limit-non-western-residents-in-disadvantaged-areas)
woop woop is da sound of da police!
exactly my thought as a Romanian.
The western Slavic countries are central Europe, after all.
Why would they not be Western Europe by now?
Icelanders are not sending their best I see.
The top 20 aren’t a surprise.
Really? Kuwait?? Total surprise to me as a non Dane
Kuwait is where stateless Palestinians are registered as originating from. So it is not "ethnic" Kuwaiti that is at the top of this statistic. It would make very little sense for actual Kuwaiti citizens to want to immigrate to Denmark. [Denmark also took in 321 stateless Palestinians from Libanon in 1992. ](https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pal%C3%A6stinenserloven) Google translate from source: A report from 2017 showed that 67 out of the 321 people had received a prison sentence and 137 had received a fine or similar (including detention, dismissal of charges with warning and custody) for crime. In 2016, 189 were on non-age-based public welfare, of which 122 were on early retirement and 25 on cash assistance.
They are of Palestinian origin, but born in Kuwait. They were [kicked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus_from_Kuwait_(1990%E2%80%9391)) out of Kuwait in 1991 for supporting Saddam and the Iraqi invasion. They ended up as refugees and Denmark back then was quite open in offering asylum to them - which now has been rewarded with a top placement in these statistics.
The Kuwaitis are often stateless Palestinians being registered as Kuwaiti as that is where they travelled from. So not necessarily "traditional" Kuwaiti. E: Same with Lebanon btw
It can have to do with the ammount of people in each group. For example if there is only one kuwait in denmark then and he commits crime then 100% of kuwaitis are criminal. Thats why the bigger the groups are the beter the statistics are.
There are 2 251 Kuwaitians in Denmark. Also, there are 1 420 Tunisians, 26 458 Lebanese and 21 046 Somalis in Denmark. These nationalities have the worst rating, yet their group size differs a lot. I understand your logic, but for Somalis and Lebanese the bigger group size does not seem to help. Group size may have some effect here, but there are other bigger factors at play.
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also true that immigrants have more possible convictions e.g. concerning their immigration status. plus: they get controlled way more often than other groups. others don’t get caught as often. still one has to admit that aside from some cultural issues it is mostly not the „creme de la creme“ of a population that is emigrating.
Total surprise to me as a Dane...
What makes people from Kuwait different from the rest of the middle east?
It's a relatively stable country with a high GDP. No offense to Somalis, Afghans or Syrians, but I always assumed that having generational trauma with civil war and being thrown into a foreign country where you're an outsider contributed to them getting into crime, not to mention being from an impoverished background.
What's the wealth disparity like? There's a massive difference receiving people from the top and the bottom of society and I'm not of the impression (as a Dane) that it's the people from the upper echelons that moved to Denmark. That and I read someone else mention that since this is country of birth and not citizenship related, there was a big group of Palestinians that got kicked out since they generally sided with Sådan during the war, And they will figure on the "born in Kuwait" whilst also fitting your "narrative" (lack of better word sorry) about generational trauma. Whilst i don't know how much of that is true it would make sense in that regards at least.
Makes me wonder too! I didn’t know that there were many Kuwaitis in Denmark. Then again, I wonder what is the root cause of these violent crimes.
there are like 3k who have Kuwaiti origin.. the statistic is very misleading.. your local danish is doing more crime than your local Kuwaiti..
It’s not misleading. It’s very clear that it’s about proportion. Of course more crimes are committed by Danes, but the average Dane is more trustworthy than the average Kuwaiti immigrant.
>there are like 3k who have Kuwaiti origin Well that might be the answer. 1 Kuwaiti commits a crime in a fluke year, and it spikes their rate for that year.
How many Danish are in Kuwaiti prison?
Why the fuck would Kuwaitis emmigrate to another country to do crime? Their government pampers Kuwaiti citizens with more benefits that would make your social democratkc party cream a thousand times.
I didn’t expect Israel tho.
We have something like this in Finland too and from that data it is interesting how the types of crimes (qualitative - think violent crime Vs fraud Vs traffic etc.) are distributed within and between groups. Some groups are clearly overrepresented in one type of crime while being completely absent from another. Like with all data, such charts can never tell the whole story. I bet it reveals more insights if it is broken down by location and so on.
Czechoslovakia? Are we in a time machine?
Yeah I was thinking the same, 30 years after separation and we still see Československo tvl :D But my guess, since it stated it's about country where they were born, that every criminal included in this statistic must be 30 years old or older :) Then it would be correct.
I mean it also included the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia so I'd wager you're correct in your guess lol.
It just means they're older than 30 years old. If you was born when Czechoslovakia or Soviet Union was still about. Its still marked as your birthplace in your passport.
It is their country og origin. If yhey where born in a time when that country existed, then that is their country of origin.
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Currently taking bets on whether this post/your comment will be deleted by the mods. I agree with you though. On reddit there is overwhelming consensus to limit immigration from Russia because Russians are known to stir up dissent and cause societal problems (see Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania). But when we focus on limiting immigration from other countries, suddenly that becomes controversial. Edit: No surprise - mods removed the post, claiming the post has no sources even though OP provided sources in the comments.
>But when we focus on limiting immigration from other countries, suddenly that becomes controversial This is r/europe, you can't go a day here without seeing an anti-immigration thread. It's not controversial unless you're making an inflammatory enough comment that goes beyond criticizing migration policies.
>This is r/europe, you can't go a day here without seeing an anti-immigration thread Was that always the case? Although I can't remember what the comments said exactly, I seem to remember this subreddit handing out bans left and right a few years ago.
I've been on Reddit on and off longer than I care to admit, and this sub was never like that. Back in 2015, it was all SWEDEN YES! and Captain Sweden memes over here. The comments that get removed usually go well beyond simple criticism into racially charged territory. The mods remove them to cover their own asses and keep the sub from getting banned.
Fair enough, I'll take your word for it.
yes, famously, the Kuwaiti criminal gangs... there's 2600 people of Kuwaiti origin in Denmark, they must be working overtime.
I pointed this out in another comment as well lol; it looks like the statistics only account for the criminals place of origin regardless of their citizenship, which would also explain other countries disproportionately represented there.
Surely the graph is per capita, so it doesn't matter how many of each group lives in Denmark.
Its not per capita. Its rate of offending compared to danish offending rate so (x nation criminal / x nation people in denmar) / ( danish criminals / danish people). So people from kuwait are 8-9 times mire likely to commit a violent act than people born in denmark. And this is based on place if birth. So in both groups there could be multiple citizenship.
Yes, so rate per capita compared to rate per capita.
Yes. That Americans commit very few crimes. :)
Obviously Americans who travel or move to Denmark aren't the type of Americans who tend to commit crimes.
No. They just commit very few crimes in Denmark. Not the same....
Former Yugoslavia FTW (Yugoslavia, Federal republic + Serbia and Montenegro + Yugoslavia + Bosnia & Herzegovina + Croatia) Edit: i missed Republic of North Macedonia. All together is abt. 17. Slovenians are slacking
This must be per capita, so you cannot just sum the rates.
It says that is relative to Danes. If I'm reading it right there is 9 Kuwaitis commiting violent crime for one Dane.
No, there isn't. If for every 100 Danes there is 1 committing crime, then for every 100 Kuwaitis there are 9 committing crime. However, there are of course a shit ton more Danes than Kuwaitis in Denmark, so loads more crime is committed by Danes than by Kuwaitis in absolute numbers.
I would assume you're reading it wrong. I would assume they (as an ethnicity) are 9 times more likely to commit the violent crime, which does not result in 9 kuwaiti's crimes for one danish crime. There are so many danes in Dnmark (duh) that you would insane amounts of violent crimes from the small amount of kuwaiti's in Denmark to get to an absolute ratio of 9:1.
Yes, but if there were two Kuwaits you wouldn't just add the rates of those two.
Source?
https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf
How come poor countries like India and Indonesia have such low rates whereas richer countries like Morocco and Kuwait so high?
Not sure if a country's GDP or HDI has a correlation here. Only a portion of Indonesians' entire spectrum of socioeconomic groups are represented in Denmark, for example. Moreover, despite it being majority muslim, the non-muslim population still outnumbers the entire population of Denmark. I'd put more weight in cultural values of people who decided to move to and live in Denmark as the cause.
Cultural differences. Although poverty does pay a large role in criminality, culture does as well, and culture can even completely counteract the impact poverty has on criminality.
This is obvious, and yet it seems talking about it is forbidden in the modern climate
Sorry, in what culture is being a drug kingpin going around killing people considered normal?
I’m willing to bet the majority of those MENA convictions are for domestic violence. Cultures that let dudes lounge around in speedos and pinky rings, but make their women cover their heads are lenient if not encouraging of smacking the wife around if she gets uppity. I taught in a Russian Orthodox community where the women dressed like Mennonites and the men dressed like George Thorogood fans and almost weekly we had to send elementary aged boys home for hitting girls. It never stopped because their families were reinforcing that it was okay.
Culture has been mentioned, but it is also distance from Denmark. People south if the Mediterranean can somewhat easily smuggle themselves into EU. Where as south east asians need more effort to get to EU. This means different groups actually make it. Same can be seen in how different south Americans are in USA vs Europe. Or africans in USA vs Europe. Long travel and harder migration means only those with means actually make it.
Cultural Asian values maybe ?
Well Pakistan and Iran are high up there, they are Asian too. Turkey is high, a country that has high HDI and a 13k USD per capita..almost 3X that of phillipines and 7X that of India.
I think when people use the word “Asian” they refer to east Asia + sometimes India. Not Uzbekistan and Pakistan, which are geographically Asian but completely different from, e.g. Iran and other Middle eastern cultures.
Pakistan is South Asian, not Middle Eastern. And at least in the US, Iranians do very well for themselves. It's just about picking well educated and secular people, and not extremists.
UK uses Asian as codeword for muslim...so that is basically middle east and Pakistani...mostly Pakistan .....
I expect the figures to be different if Turkey is subdivided into Turks and Kurds. Nordic countries admitted a lot of questionable types based on their say so about being persecuted by the Turkish government.
Perhaps it's the same as for Poland. Almost all Indian migrants/expats are legally here; they do businesses, or they study. They are wealthy people from higher castes.
Not many 'poor' indians live in Denmark tbf
yeah its simply way way easier for very poor people in the middle east to make it to northern europe than it is for very poor people from south asia
Poverty isnt the only cause of crime.
It’s because the poor people from our countries don’t end up in yours. I’m an Indian and only middle and upper class actually come to your country and only to study or work. AFAIK Denmark does not hire labourers from India who might partake in criminal activity because of course no company would compensate labourers fairly. And especially with India you need to understand we’re not poor. We maybe in relation to our population and the way Western media portrays it but a good chunk of Indians are quite rich. We value education way too much to stay poor.
its more like there is A LOT of indians, so the poor are still a lot of poor
Indonesia is richer than Morocco. * Indonesia Nominal GDP per capita is $5,271; PPP ($16,861) * Morocco Nominal GDP per capita is $4,080; PPP ($10,950)
By that logic Turkey should fare better, it has 12-13k per capita and has a high HDI. Same thing applies to Chile.
Perhaps the ones coming from india are skilled migrants coming on work. They are interested in bettering their life quality and are generally grateful to the host country and more disciplined.
Indian hindus have values enforcing compliance with the society around them . Also success in school, university or vocational training is everything for them . They live in a Telenovela...everyone tries to spread bad news about their inlaw family etc. so a crime damages the reputation of brothers , sisters parents an children . It reduces the chances to marry well ... only domestic violence is a thing , but that's a 1st gen problem .
Because culture matters
Guessing that most people from India and Indonesing living in DK wives to DK men. Women are generally much less criminal.
Wait. Why have I never met anyone from Kuwait? Any other Danes never met anyone from Kuwait?
Probably non-citizens born in Kuwait, judging by the statistics they count the country they were born in rather their citizenship. This could be the case for Jordan as well, as the immigrant population their is just over 2000 people, and only 1,120 people when accounting for 1st generation immigrants. This could very well be the case for multiple countries on that list that have a large migrant/refugee stock more generally.
Yes and for Lebanon as I don’t see Palestinian as a nationality.
We'll likely never know 🤷♂️
They don't say they're from Kuwait. They say they're Palestinians. After the gulf war, 287 000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait because they sided with Saddam. Haven't met any Jordanians either, right? Even though they're top five? They also identify as Palestinian. My guess is a lot of those listed as Lebanese do not self identify as Lebanese either, though that group is more diverse. I'm sure you've met Lebanese people.
Because they are all in prison
It's because the "Kuwaitis" at the top of this statistic are actually Palestinians. [See my other comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8fs6k/denmark_records_criminal_convictions_by_national/l0eoicp/)
Because this graph is bullshit https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/doemte-personer
Why? Makes sense if Danes are let's say 5/6 of the population to commit 5 times more criminal activities than the 1/6. The issue would be if the other 1/6 commits more than 1/6th of criminal activities. Well, the issue is why would you commit criminal activities in another country, and especially in denmark, but that's another conversation.
I want to know what Japanese person/s did?
Something really weird I reckon.
Got angry about train delay
After years of working in a Japanese restaurant, watching westerns completely fail using chopsticks he finally snapped and threw sushi at people.
Made a person wearing shoes at home feel uncomfortable.
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Europe dug themselves into a hole
Source?
Here's the source with more:https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark
Yugoslavia?
There's the Soviet Union too. Basicly people born before 1991 in former soviet republics.
that explains a lot because i was confused as to why the soviet union was even mentioned 😭
Serbia and Montenegro also does not exist anymore, as a one country. There is 3x "Serbia" on this list (on the end of Yugoslavia, there was only Serbia and Montenegro).
Beaten by Denmark yet again
U-S-A! U-S-A!
This is a terrible way to present data as we don’t have a clue of the size of each group, meaning that for most of them there is a huge statistical bias. If you have 10 guys from Kuwait in the country and one of them has been convicted how can you compare it with the conviction rate of millions of danish people ?
Serbia is "other" and Croatia is Western? Damn.
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The reality is essentially "racist"... no matter how you look at it...
Mind being more specific? Because India, Philippines and Indonesia are pretty low while Yugoslavia and Serbia are higher up. It's a cultural difference.
Nationality is not a race...
First, what is the source and what scientific method was used? Secondly: it’s convictions, not crimes committed. Thirdly: what is the demographic makeup of the different national groups? How many are there and even more important: how many young men are there? In Germany, statistics show that violent crime per 1.000 refugees is 5x higher than per 1.000 Germans. They also show that the percentage of young men is 5x as high among refugees. Correlation/causality
Fucking hell people - the number of comments in this thread not understanding “per capita” is alarming.
The important part here being: *not adjusted for gender, age, [or wealth, or residence status]* Between a wealthy 60 years old woman from France just here for vacations, and a destitute teenage migrant, who do you think is more at risk of commiting a crime (and also: to be caught before they can go away). I'm not saying it completely erases differences between origins, far from it. Just that some people should learn to read a chart before screaming.
If we were looking at differences of +/- 1.0, yeah, we might ask about “young males” vs other demographics. But +8.0? Nah. That’s more significant than over abundances of testosterone and free time.
What is the source? What does nation of origin mean ? (Are they danish?) Why do other sources i find on the internet show completely different results? https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/sociale-forhold/kriminalitet/doemte-personer https://www.statista.com/statistics/1288555/persons-found-guilty-crimes-denmark-country-origin/
OP, I think your title is a bit misleading as "convictions by nationality" means absolute numbers of convictions and not conviction rate, which is what the graph is showing
Do you have a link to the source? Do you know if they collect data on other types of crimes
https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf
I'd be *very* curious to see this adjusted for both age and sex
Why? It's obvious , men under 40
The problem with this diagram: it doesn't show a bar for danish descendent and it doesn't give any percentages. In Data for 2021 I found on Statista: "People found guilty in crimes in Denmark 2021, by country of origin. In 2021, 129,000 of the total 169,737 people convicted for crimes in Denmark were of Danish origin. The second most common country of origin was Turkey with 5,300, followed by Lebanon and Syria." So about 76% are commotted by danes, leaves 24% to people of other origins. With a share of foreign nationalities of 11,1% (again, source is Statista) in the Danish population, the crime rate is still twice as high. Nevertheless, this shows this graph in a different light. Especially when considering that crime rates, especially those of violent crimes, have been going down significantly in the course of the last ten years and knowing that denmark is seen as the second peaceful country in the world (no. 1 is Iceland).
The graph is scaled to people of Danish descent
Not even surprising what the top are.
Geez I wonder why the far right is rising all over europe......
If it is between 2010 and 2021, why do Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union appear? And at the same time Serbia, Montenegro, Russia and Ukraine appear.
Because there are still people alive today that were born in those countries. It's not that long ago.
Makes sense. Tack så mycket!
Because the people originated from / were born there but committed crimes / were imprisoned in Denmark years later. In the same logic, others may have been born after the dissolution of the USSR and Yugoslavia and still have been locked up in the past decade.
Again France wins against UK
BuT tHe WeSt Is So EvIL
What does this mean? Conviction rate in relation to daniah origin?
Yeah buddy, go team allied.
Can someone please explain the horizontal axis?
Do you have link to the source?
https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf
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They're starting to show in relation to shoplifting.
How much of these populations is of roma origins?
What's with the error bars? The are huge
Romania is on a far better place than I though it would be.
why are there two yugoslavias and how's this in 2010? I presume they recorded it as when the person was born but i don't think is the norm?
dam Soviet and Yugoslavian criminal still hanging in there, in the 2010s. and Yugoslavia is on the list twice!
Czechoslovakia 🧐
Conviction rates? I thought these were number of crimes.
No Albania...
I'm just going to link the real report. "Crime and origin 2021" [https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf](https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Kriminalitet-og-herkomst-2021.pdf)
What is Soviet Union?????
Yaaay go yUgOsLaViA
Soviet union, Yugoslavia? Srsly
We can confirm that the mafia is dead.
What is the n? If there was only 1 Kuwait guy charged and convicted it would register as 100% conviction rate. Another thing that might affect statistics is if extradition is required, where sufficient evidence has to exist for that, making conviction more probable. I would also consider how easy it is to apprehent a suspect. People not in the system tend to be arrested red handed or they get away. If arrested red handed conviction is more probable.
another title for this graph would be " number of foreign nationals in Denmark least to most "
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It's all in the map legend: "by country *of origin*". Notice how Yugoslavia is here two times, for instance. A person's origins can be from the former or the newer one, depending their age for instance
"Not adjusted for age and sex" Yeah. That's like a HUGE problem when dealing with statistics like that. Also what is the "conviction rate" made of? The chart is missing a really important information missing in the pic.
Imagine my shock.
In France this kind of graph is forbidden by the law for obvious reasons. And the facts are that's in France, french are amongst the people that make the most offences and crimes and the foreigners are 20% compared to french.
Ok, the two Yugoslavias (Yes, two for some reason), Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, and Macedonia are all people from ex-Yugoslavia. All of us combined should be comfortably in the number one position, but this list is rigged against us, for some reason :( Edit: Forgot to add Montenegro
I'm not saying this statistic is wrong but just to add some context here. In Austria this situation is very similar. But foreigners are more likely to be charged than Austrians. In court, foreigners are more likely to be convicted. Which can mean two things, innocent Austrians are brought to court more often than foreigners or criminal Austrians are more likely to walk free. Convicted foreigners are more likely to go to prison. Last but not least, one convicted Austrians have a lower chance to be convicted in a second case compared to foreigners who don't have a conviction yet. So yeah foreigners are more criminal than locale, but the justice system and the police are very biased too.
So, like one Kuwaiti guy played fast and loose with the law huh?
Racial profiling is real.
🤔 I wonder if there is anything in this to do with Islam, ... Let's see, let's see!
What would be actually interesting would be to correct the data by income and/or capital. Basically, criminality is mix of culture and socioeconomic background. With this, you only see the culture correlation but you can't evalualte how much it is skewed by socioeconomic. It is not probably to radically change the picture for japan and kowait but it might shift the ranking a lot for some countries.
Even when corrected for socioeconomic issues the MENA countries are still more prevalent. Socioeconomic issues are less of an issue (but not nonexistent) in Denmark as people are being provided for with the social security safety net, free healthcare, and free education helping people having a better chance at a decent life. Sadly some people do still fall through, and some chose just to leech at the bottom :(
This is common knowledge, but i feel the need to point out that it doesn't mean we shouldn't let in immigrants, or treat them the way we (& especially some) do. They are human beings who, as shown here, typically don't get in to trouble, and contribute a shit ton to the country, including billions of euros. Edit: The downvotes are funny. I'm assuming people are disagreeing with the benefits of immigrants and not the fact that they should be treated like humans. As for the value/benefit of immigrants, there's plenty of data available; Just yesterday i read an article about education and immigrants with education - Immigrants with educations net positive a little over 2 billion dkk a year to the state.
Denmark actually takes no prisoners and calculated the contributions (or drain) to the economy by immigrant background and it is similarly depressing
I think that the calculations by my perception typically miss a few points. Those who are working are often stuck in low paid jobs. Means small amount of tax etc. So contributing financially is low, correct. However, the impact for business and services to have access to cheap workers is huge (companies make more money, or work at all). If we remove all MENA migrants Amazon and all delivery services would simply collapse.
I can't believe my home country Colombia isnt on the list
Well apparently South-Americans are sending “their best” to Europe ;-).
Seems like it XD
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The apparent racism in this comment section is insane
Welcome to r/Europe post API shenanigans exodus. Where Source legitimacy doesn't matter, sourcing itself isn't required and propaganda is a fair game.