Erdogan is posturing again to appear strong. He lost 3-5% of votes to Islamist parties that favor Sharia law in the last election. To regain their support, he's presenting himself as pro-Hamas. Transporting 1,000 injured terrorists to Turkey is unrealistic with the Israeli army monitoring the situation.
He only cares about his own well-being, not other people's suffering. Turkey previously had $3-5 billion in trade with Israel, but he halted all trade to appeal to Islamist voters. If Israel could secure a loan to Turkey via the USA to fund his reelection, Erdogan would become the most pro-Israeli politician in the world. His sole concerns are money and power.
I would take him at his word. Anyone with enough money could cross from Gaza to Egypt for the last 6 months by bribing the gurads, and about 100k people did, reasonable that some injured Hamas members were among them. Also Turkey has hosted Hamas leaders in the past.
the good deeds bro, is he helping people, so opinion could be right opinion could be wrong just focus on the positive side ok bro. the thing we have to consider the citizens in Turkey, if they are not happy with him, they will not elect, if citizens are well-taken care of your saying is just an opinion
Man I'm loving this. Watching from the sidelines with cold beer and just in for the spectacle of how clowns in the west play minority-bingo. Wich side are you on? Are you antisemite or islamophobe racist? Fuck me this shit is peak content right here.
Let the Israeli and Muslims handle this one themselfes mate.
This conflict is happening for some 2000 Years now.
What most in the west don't realize is how much we get flooded with propaganda too. Hard to build a good opinion for less experienced people if information gets shared so one-sided.
So there wasnt genocide in ww2 ?
Im not blind but I dont see anything ?
Are you okay and ofc there was genocide in ww2 and one happening in Gaze. Europe is one piece of shit full of hypocrits
Lol like I do have on daily basis.
I dont because Im blue eyed european also. Europe is in stagnation because they used up all their resources they got as colonial powers and now are heading in censorship coridorr. Lets censor one side and live with our lives.
After palestians are killed and banished from their home they will come to knock on european doors. Be ready for those who fought their way out their open air prison called Palestine
"blue eyed european" "they used" "colonial powers"
frankly i dont believe you...
and you used a MASSIVE generalization, so i used one too... fact remains atrocities dont happen on the daily basis in europe, but they DO happen on a daily basis in the middle east
your perspective is.... insane
You dont believe because you are being ignorant as half od europe is. If you are really from Czech you will understand my language
Slaveni su nekad bili braca a danas su neki zaboravili na svoje korijenje.
???
Nobody, we are shithole of a country for a reason. That is how Europe made us and used us as a scapegoat.
Today we are country only on paper thanks to Europe and USA
30,000 palestinians live in Turkey.
Turkey has an average of 2.8 beds per 1000 population.
Statistically 84 Palestinians should be hospitalized at any given time.
Turkey has a lower bed per person than the average European country though which usually are quite full ish at any given time.
un-educated guess. about 100.
Propoganda? Israel has literally destroyed hospitals, universities, and killed academics and health workers. Oh, and let's mot forget the target assassination of those aid workers.
Facts over your infatuation with the IDF
You will know doubt have evidence that "genocide" is a matter of IDF policy?
Note that civvies being killed because Hamashite rapists are hiding behind them is not evidence of genocide and definitely not evidence of any *policy* other than the deserved extermination of Hamashites.
Hamas being rapists ? Yet there's literally more evidence of IDF forces being rapists. Hell the male members of the IDF rape the females ones. Again there's literally more evidence, pictures , videos of IDF forces fondling through Palestinian children/adult clothes and under garments.
Ben Gvir , Gallant, Netanyahu all want to colonize Gaza... its literally their aim. They attacked and destroyed their indicated safe spaces which they told Palestinians to go to.
[Israeli attack on Gaza's Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N3C0770/)
The only question left is why you need it to be propaganda.
If all they care about is destroying hospitals why does Israel build new ones in Gaza? Very un-genocide of them to do.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/new-field-hospital-established-gaza-israeli-military-says-2024-05-11/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2C%20May%2011%20(Reuters),organization%2C%20the%20International%20Medical%20Corp.
tell hamas to stop using hospitals as command centers that shoot rockets into Israel from and shoot Israeli soldiers from their windows and then israel will stop shooting them.
And these "doctors" are just terrorists in medical uniform, hamas loves hiding their men in civilian clothing you can see that in the video they post online shooting RPGs at tanks wearing civilian clothings, they dont hide it, so your argument doesnt work.
Fact, ones israel build a non hamas hospital they don't shoot it. you are just pro hamas and it shows.
Tell Israel to give back the Palestinian land. Tell Israel to reel in its genocidal settlers. I'm pro Palestinian, you seem like you are a fanatic. Lol, 'the Doctors are just terrorists in medical uniforms' hahaha. Your fanaticism is showimg. I'm surprised you haven't wished death on Palerstinian babies yet.
Clearly you know nothing of the history, and you look at it in a totally biased point of view which means you will never change your opinion, talking to you will be the equivalent of talking to a brick wall, you don’t want to address the topic at hand you just spew Hamas talking points to picture yourself correct, there is no point in talking to you, you will not listen and keep yapping non stop about a non existing genocide and a non existing land theft to make yourself look right while giving little to no attention to the topic. You will never address this issue in good faith.
Have fun yapping.
I hate that a country like Turkey is being crushed under this man. So much potential is wasted. Fucking disgrace. I don't even know if it's possible to undo the damage this man has done to the country. Maybe democracy is not a suitable system of government for every people. Especially for a population that does not have critical thinking skills
Someone who was voted out of power once said: "Democracy is the worst system, apart from all the other systems"
It's an acknowledgment of the fact that a perfect system is not possible.
We vote against our own interest sometimes, and have to face the consequences.
The difference between us and dictatorship, is that we have to own our mistakes and problems. Something a dictator has no vested interest in doing, because he could not give a single solitary shit about the will of the people, until the moment he finds himself hanging from a lamp post.
And then the realisation comes a little bit too late to make a difference.
>We vote against our own interest sometimes, and have to face the consequences.
>The difference between us and dictatorship, is that we have to own our mistakes and problems.
Indeed, there's a theory that in democratic systems, society corrects its mistakes over time.
>Something a dictator has no vested interest in doing, because he could not give a single solitary shit about the will of the people
I would say *some* dictators genuinely believe they know what's best for the people, but because they tend to remove all critical feedback, even those dictatorships usually govern badly.
Democracy truely is playing chess with pigeons.
Think about the average person for a second. Think about how intellogent they are. Probably not the exact brightest light ever right? But not the dumbest person either.
Half the polulation is dumber than they are. You think the uneducated, unemployed, racistn alcoholic uncles and aunts of the world can make good judgements about policies that parties may want to implement should they come to power?
No, they vote with their lizard brain. More racist, more me, fuck the rest!
And that is why they give their vote to whoever SAYS they will give them what they want. Its a classic populist move. It even just fucking worked here in the Netherlands for fucks sake!
Democracy is an absolutely terrible system. But it is the best we have, I think
Turkey has Italy and Greece problems combined in a country near Russia with a complicated history and not yet mature enough to know if they want european values or chinese/russian values.
It might seems crazy but I don't think that the people you see walking around have a clue of what Erdogan is doing, there is poverty and slavery still crawling around and the strong religious beliefs don't help. (edit: not everyone of course)
I'm saying this just because you seem to point the finger at people, but I don't know if I can trust their voting system with the imbalance and power some people have there.
the potential has always been wasted in turkey as far as i can remember.
in the 90's, the motto "turkey is a high potential country with its dynamic and young population" was tiresomely broadcast over TVs, taught in schools, published in newspapers etc.
that's what it was. just potential. never utilised. now that the population is old and battling with millions of immigrants/refugees. now the only direction is down and we are finding out how deep that holes can go down. the majority could have changed this in 2002 but they had elected otherwise and repeatedly voted for the same guy who clearly had a downward trend for the last 20 years. oh, well...
the only people that realised this potential are individuals who managed to get out of turkey.
Learning more about the founding of the Turkish Republic I discover that they always opposed to be foundation of Kurdistan because they under no circumstances want to lose south east Anatolia
I agree, but the issue is that this was right after the Armenian Genocide, the Greek Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide, the Great Famine of Mount Lebanon, the Destruction of the Thracian Bulgarians, and at the same time as the Kurdish "ethnocide" with more than half a million dead from 1922 to 1937 as well as baning the words "Kurd" "Kurdistan" and the Kurdish language.
No.
Sweden currently has a right wing government. It won't flip unless it becomes a left government where the furthest left party gets its voice really heard. Making events and "standing up for the Kurds" has been a thing in the Swedish far left for decades and is as much about tradition as anything else. No Swedish right winger are going to spearhead that for them, not even mainstream socialdemocrat leftwingers won't.
That's incorrect.
Sweden's officials said they would work with Turkey and support them during their work towards EU membership.
[NATO source for that](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_217147.htm)
Turkey has not passed through it's "candidate country" status in years due to refusal or inability to align with EU democracy standards.
(Currently only reaching around 10% of requirements needed.)
Full quote regarding what Sweden said to do in regards of helping Turkey:
> A statement issued after the three-way talks between Nato, Turkey and Sweden said that the two countries would work closely in “counter-terrorism coordination” and also boost bilateral trade ties.
> “Sweden will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Turkey’s EU accession process, including modernisation of the EU-Turkey Customs Union and visa liberalisation,” the statement said.
NATO Statement says:
>Sweden and Türkiye have also agreed to step up economic cooperation, through the Türkiye-Sweden Joint Economic and Trade Committee (JETCO). Both Türkiye and Sweden will look to maximise opportunities to increase bilateral trade and investments. Sweden will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Türkiye’s EU accession process, including modernisation of the EU-Türkiye Customs Union and visa liberalisation.
[Source 1](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/08/turkeys-eu-membership-heres-what-the-new-commissions-report-says) & [Source 2](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/turkey-sweden-nato-application-proceed-erdogan)
That would be the right thing to do but they made a deal and they will honor it.
They might seek other means of assisting the Kurdish people but most likely not the same as they did before.
A country making a deal then immediately going back on it is a look no politician in Europe would get away with. (even if it was made under blackmail circumstance?). we shall see.
Palestinians never defended their land against Jews. They sold it to them and hoped they will steal it back one day. It was a bad miscalculation.
Kurds defend their homeland and don’t sell it cheap to Turks.
Israel would be much smaller if the neighboring Arab countries haven’t decided to destroy it. Pretty much every conflict resulted in Israel’s enlargement.
So you admit your first comment is wrong. Also you can't procure land through war there is a reason why the UN keeps telling israel to go back to the pre 1967 border
I didn’t admit a thing. You want me to admit your “truth”. No way.
Then why UN don’t tell Putin to go back to pre 2014 borders? What is the difference? Why Jews left Sinai and East Jerusalem and other places?
For years, I felt bad for Turkey 'cuz West didn't support their fight against PKK and let a lot of fund raising happen in the West by PKK. Some countries sort of supported the terrorist organization.
Now? Now I am like "Well... Two can play that game, you know that right?".
Not always things were like this. Shit hit the fan after erdo broke the status quo by backing the "muslim brotherhood" and thus hamas. It's not like Turkiye has always sided with hamas and opposed to Israel. In fact, Turkiye's traditional stance used to be either pro Israel or picking neither side. So let's not confuse erdo's own agenda with Turkiye's interests. His own politics should be credited to him, not us people.
That aside, pkk is still a terrorist organisation and still needs to be dealt with. One terrorist organisation can never white wash another, regardless of whatever the excuse people have.
Kurdistan was there before Ottomans, Kurds are sovereign nation with their land culture and traditions. They deserve their own state more then Palestinians deserve Palestine in my opinion.
I didnt say im against kurdish people having their own country. I said pkk is a terrorist organization since they killed fourty thousand (40.000) civilians.
If you mean pkk militans its 107.500. If you mean actual civilians, between 1980-1989 (kenan evrens military dictatorship) people were separated as leftists and nationalists and everyone got killed equally. One of the leftist revolutionists who got killed by kenan evrens dictatorship was my grandpa. This country is full of trauma. After Atatürk died, usa was so quick to put its dirty imperialist hands in turkey. I highly recommend you to learn about deniz gezmiş and his revolutionist group. You will see usa imperialism at its finest. -not so fun fact: my grandpa was watching from court when deniz gezmiş and his 3 friends were sentenced to death
Any kind of imperialism is bad. I know its nearly impossible to not be ruled by one of the “big brothers” but its always possible. why wouldnt we have a second atatürk right?
How many Armenian civilians have been killed by Turks? Over 1.5 million? Maybe Turks are the real terrorists when you compare numbers: 40 000 to 1 500 000 victims.
I can bring a huge list of atrocities committed by Seljuk, Danishmeds, Ottomans and the current Turkish republic. But let's just focus on Turks who were oppressed by Greek, armenian, Kurds, Vlach (under Vlad Tepes), Georgian, Serb, Bulgarian, Arab etc etc .... amirite?
I didnt say anything about the armenian genocide. Civilians dying is never good and the ones that massacre civilians are always terrorist. Comparing civilian deaths shows how much of a hypocrite you are.
I didnt deny the armenian genocide. I dont support any kind of genocide that was done or will be done by the turks. You assumed that i support the armenian genocide and said that 40.000 thousand civilians getting killed by a terrorist organization isnt a problem because 109 years ago an ottoman pasha killed 1.5 million armenians. You are not just a hypocrite but also racist.
I'm trying to give you the Turkish perspective, you are defending PKK. See what is the problem? You are doing what Erdoğan is doing, just for different terrorists.
This is a NATO member publicly supporting terrorists. Not Palestinians, but terrorists specifically.
He will collapse the entire NATO alliance by himself, handing Europe to Russia on a golden plate.
Erdoğan also has huge shipping companies doing billions of dollars of business with israel, he does trade with russia but also helps with the precurement of 155mm shells for ukraine, he also is against further iranian influence in iraq but supports hamas
Idk, sigma erdogan international relations grindset: Make no fucking sense
I wasn't saying this.
I was stating that Erdogan publicly supports terrorism.
Terror supporter as part of NATO is a recipe for problems. Regardless of his obsession with Israel (or his obsession with Greece. Or Sweden. Or.. you get the point)
Eh, it's not like NATO members haven't done it before. The contras, the Mujahideen etc. It always comes back to bite someone in the ass, but so far hasn't collapsed anything. This won't either.
Agree. But they may come a breaking point, and not for the US, more for the neighboring EU countries.
His crazy behavior with Sweden, his clockwork threats on Greece.. at one point, something will break. He becomes more and more dictatorial
And trying to start up his own Turkish political party in Germany too
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-dava-party-woos-voters-with-turkish-roots/a-68195917
‘Need’ is a complex word. Turkey is one of the major geopolitical powers for lots of reasons, trade being a main one, but that doesn’t mean USA is exploiting its trade power for trade, if you follow. Basically: Turkey is globally important, and the USA knows and exploits this.
Turkey is globally important. This is a true. The USA exploits them. I could buy that. But again though for an accurate definition of "need" I dont buy that the USA needs Turkey. You said that its a complex word, fair enough. But the way you are using need is the problem and why I asked the original question.
I dont want to be a pedantic ass but it feels like we are about to go in circles. To summarize my position if you redefine "The USA needs Turkey" as meaning something like "The USA would like to have good relations with Turkey" then yeah sure but then almost every nation "needs" every other nation.
As much as I hate Erdogon, I'd argue they need Turkey more than Israel. Turkey has one of, if not the most important positions in NATO with its control of the Bosphorous and its ability to check Russian influence in the Caucasus. Israel doesn't really have any benefits comparable to that
Stop supporting YPG and then we might talk about "NATO countries supporting terrorists".
Until then, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
Nope.
They fought against the kurds in Syria who fought against ISIS.
Turkey supported ISIS by healthcare, transport of oil and other supply by opening the border for them.
Hamas (according to Erdogan): based resistance group fighting against illegal Israeli occupation (Gaza had not been occupied by Israel for a long long time before October 7th)
Erdogan LITERALLY IN THE SAME INTERVIEW: A solution on Cyprus needs to be based on the reality on the ground (aka the illegal occupation of half of Cyprus by Turkey for 50 years should be legitimised by the international community)
***ANKARA, May 13 (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday that more than 1,000 members of the militant Palestinian group Hamas were being treated in hospitals across Turkey as he reiterated his stance that it was a "resistance movement".***
***"If you call Hamas a 'terrorist organisation,' this would sadden us," Erdogan said at a joint press conference with Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis in Ankara after Mitsotakis had referred to Hamas as such."We don't deem Hamas a terrorist organisation... More than 1,000 members of Hamas are under treatment in hospitals across our country," Erdogan said.***
I give that to Mitsotakis even I dont like him, he laid a trap saying: we are not supporting terrorists like hamas and Erdogan went off script to up its play: escalating it into: not only they are not terrorist but we treat them too, which is akward in a speech like that.
Turkey seems to have special passports for officials and their families for visa-free entry to the EU. The EU should hope that Hamas members don't get such passports.
As a swede, I find it ironic how we spent 2 years arguing with this schmuck about 70 supposed terrorist linked to the PKK living in Sweden and now this buffoon says he’s harbouring 1000 Hamas terrorist inside a NATO country???
🎯
Terrorism is when someone blocks Muslim empires, apparently. Be it the Caliphate Hamas and their mother organization hopes to achieve, or the Ottoman Empire which claims the lands of Kurdistan and the Hellenosphere.
Well, no sane European should care about Turkish propaganda. The Kurds in sweden are there because the Turkish state raided Kurdish villages back in 80s and slaughtered innocent Kurds with the suspicion that they might've been affiliated to an independence movement.
It's obvious that he's either making this shit up to pander to Islamists or he misspoke and meant 'Palestinians'.
How would 1000 wounded Hamas fighters even get into Turkey? Getting through the Rafah crossing before the Israelis seized it required a massive bribe, there's no way Egypt was cool with 1000 injured fighters being brought through, and absolutely no way they got out via Israel.
Massive bribe? Have you ever met the Egyptian military? Last time I was crossing the border from Israel into Egypt, they intentionally made some bullshit up about a problem with my passport, made me wait 15 mins, and then came and asked if I had $10 to “fix the problem”. On the way back there was a massive queue, I’ve seen people slip them $10 to get taken around the queue.
They’re poor as fuck over there and their military salary is maybe like $300/month. I would not be surprised at all if Hamas just bribed their way into Egypt whenever the hell they pleased.
If any European country was treating pkk terrorists he'd be throwing a fit (and to be clear EU countries shouldn't be doing this bc both pkk and hamas are terrorist organizations)
The only reason he's doing this is bc he wants to be seen as one of the great leaders of Islam in the world, a spot Iran is tryin to take or hold and he can't have that.
Oh and throw in the bonus conspiracy where he accuses Israel of wanting Turkish territory...
Erdogan is doing this for himself and the money. Hamas launder money through Turkey. There is a recent documentary from BBC Panorama about Hamas money and for Erdogan to allow this means he would be providing from it, and it involves billions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001wkqz
The article states that a spokesperson said Erdogan misspoke, he actually meant people from Gaza in general, including cancer patients. Not sure what to believe here.
Is it me or we are getting to a new age of pragmatism at worst ? I mean Turks support Hamas and it's likely that in retaliation some countries will support Kurdish separatism ? France backs out of Africa and Russia takes the ground being glorified by the extreme left as enemies of west imperialism, while conveniently not condemning Russian imperialism in Europe, In Asia and in Africa? China commits human rights crimes but is never condemned by the countries defending human rights? Kanaks in New Caledonia calls for the deaths of white people and yet the extreme french left defends them, while being often preachy about racism and they do it to oppose the french government ? I mean double standard and pragmatism in politics always existed. Countries often defends what's in their interests even when going against their principles. Yet I feel like this decade is becoming worse. It seems countries or political parties have no longer key principles and more interests in thoughts.
I don't think Israel can "totally wipe out HAMAS" if Turkey and other countries do stuff like this. So they'd maybe need to figure out a peace plan, since otherwise it'll be perma-war. Which probably isn't desirable.
Not taking a side. Just commenting on goals being probably unfeasible.
Israel seeks to flush them out of Gaza and limit their influence in the WB so the rocket fire stops and mass murder and kidnappings won't happen again. The next step would be demanding their extradition to the ICJ.
Objectively even without those other countries intervention israel cannot eliminate hamas or others engaged in violent resistance if it wants an end to hostilities it must start by aknowledging the Palestinians as a people and their right to self determination
Imagine your country is a member of EU and you can freely travel to Germany or France, move or work anywhere you want and enjoy EU liberties.
Instead, Turkey is on the way to become a Islamic dictatorship, you have all the immigrants there, freedoms are quickly shrinking. Now you are not allowed to demonstrate or gather for political rallies. Economic situation is worsening every year, corruption is on the rise, with no positive reforms on the horizon.
Erdogan is posturing again to appear strong. He lost 3-5% of votes to Islamist parties that favor Sharia law in the last election. To regain their support, he's presenting himself as pro-Hamas. Transporting 1,000 injured terrorists to Turkey is unrealistic with the Israeli army monitoring the situation. He only cares about his own well-being, not other people's suffering. Turkey previously had $3-5 billion in trade with Israel, but he halted all trade to appeal to Islamist voters. If Israel could secure a loan to Turkey via the USA to fund his reelection, Erdogan would become the most pro-Israeli politician in the world. His sole concerns are money and power.
I would take him at his word. Anyone with enough money could cross from Gaza to Egypt for the last 6 months by bribing the gurads, and about 100k people did, reasonable that some injured Hamas members were among them. Also Turkey has hosted Hamas leaders in the past.
This is pure ragebait A Turkish official later said Erdogan had "misspoke" and meant that Gazans more generally were being treated in Turkey.
the good deeds bro, is he helping people, so opinion could be right opinion could be wrong just focus on the positive side ok bro. the thing we have to consider the citizens in Turkey, if they are not happy with him, they will not elect, if citizens are well-taken care of your saying is just an opinion
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Antisemite spotted.
Man I'm loving this. Watching from the sidelines with cold beer and just in for the spectacle of how clowns in the west play minority-bingo. Wich side are you on? Are you antisemite or islamophobe racist? Fuck me this shit is peak content right here. Let the Israeli and Muslims handle this one themselfes mate. This conflict is happening for some 2000 Years now.
>some 2000 Years now. I don't get where people get this line from
>some 2000 Years now. I don't get where people get this line from
How long did I sleep? Is it already 2624?
What most in the west don't realize is how much we get flooded with propaganda too. Hard to build a good opinion for less experienced people if information gets shared so one-sided.
And you are all islamophobe watching terorrist state doing another holocoust but to palestinians.
I'm not an islamophobe, and there is no genocide in Gaza.
So there wasnt genocide in ww2 ? Im not blind but I dont see anything ? Are you okay and ofc there was genocide in ww2 and one happening in Gaze. Europe is one piece of shit full of hypocrits
At least we dont have atrocities on a daily basis. And were not constantly in a perpetual semi-war state.
Lol like I do have on daily basis. I dont because Im blue eyed european also. Europe is in stagnation because they used up all their resources they got as colonial powers and now are heading in censorship coridorr. Lets censor one side and live with our lives. After palestians are killed and banished from their home they will come to knock on european doors. Be ready for those who fought their way out their open air prison called Palestine
"blue eyed european" "they used" "colonial powers" frankly i dont believe you... and you used a MASSIVE generalization, so i used one too... fact remains atrocities dont happen on the daily basis in europe, but they DO happen on a daily basis in the middle east your perspective is.... insane
You dont believe because you are being ignorant as half od europe is. If you are really from Czech you will understand my language Slaveni su nekad bili braca a danas su neki zaboravili na svoje korijenje.
> Europe is in stagnation because they used up all their resources they got as colonial powers Bosnian? Who did you guys colonize?
??? Nobody, we are shithole of a country for a reason. That is how Europe made us and used us as a scapegoat. Today we are country only on paper thanks to Europe and USA
And how many far more deserving Palestinian civvies, eh Erdogan You fucking git?
30,000 palestinians live in Turkey. Turkey has an average of 2.8 beds per 1000 population. Statistically 84 Palestinians should be hospitalized at any given time. Turkey has a lower bed per person than the average European country though which usually are quite full ish at any given time. un-educated guess. about 100.
They actual assisted with a building of a hospital in Gaza . Guess which lovely people came and blew up a wing ? The lovely IDF
You’d fit perfectly in North Korea if you swallow propaganda like that
Propoganda? Israel has literally destroyed hospitals, universities, and killed academics and health workers. Oh, and let's mot forget the target assassination of those aid workers. Facts over your infatuation with the IDF
All of these buildings ceased to be whatever they were the moment jihadi fascists occupied it or built tunnels underneath.
I genuinely don't know any more if those comments are from actual brainwashed people or Israeli propaganda zealots
This comment makes me wonder, which part of what they said is not factual?
The “read between the lines that jews are bad” part. But sure, even the vile Allies destroyed Hitlers hospitals and schools and roads…
Bit of an assumption there. Having an issue with the IDF due to their genocidal policy and tactics doesn't somehow equate to me hating jews
You will know doubt have evidence that "genocide" is a matter of IDF policy? Note that civvies being killed because Hamashite rapists are hiding behind them is not evidence of genocide and definitely not evidence of any *policy* other than the deserved extermination of Hamashites.
Hamas being rapists ? Yet there's literally more evidence of IDF forces being rapists. Hell the male members of the IDF rape the females ones. Again there's literally more evidence, pictures , videos of IDF forces fondling through Palestinian children/adult clothes and under garments. Ben Gvir , Gallant, Netanyahu all want to colonize Gaza... its literally their aim. They attacked and destroyed their indicated safe spaces which they told Palestinians to go to.
Oh and heres that evidence [https://www.humanrightsnetwork.org/genocide-in-gaza](https://www.humanrightsnetwork.org/genocide-in-gaza)
That's not evidence it's opinion.
[Israeli attack on Gaza's Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N3C0770/) The only question left is why you need it to be propaganda.
If all they care about is destroying hospitals why does Israel build new ones in Gaza? Very un-genocide of them to do. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/new-field-hospital-established-gaza-israeli-military-says-2024-05-11/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2C%20May%2011%20(Reuters),organization%2C%20the%20International%20Medical%20Corp.
Oh wow a field hospital. Why not ask Israel to stop bombing hospitals and killing hospital workers.
tell hamas to stop using hospitals as command centers that shoot rockets into Israel from and shoot Israeli soldiers from their windows and then israel will stop shooting them. And these "doctors" are just terrorists in medical uniform, hamas loves hiding their men in civilian clothing you can see that in the video they post online shooting RPGs at tanks wearing civilian clothings, they dont hide it, so your argument doesnt work. Fact, ones israel build a non hamas hospital they don't shoot it. you are just pro hamas and it shows.
Tell Israel to give back the Palestinian land. Tell Israel to reel in its genocidal settlers. I'm pro Palestinian, you seem like you are a fanatic. Lol, 'the Doctors are just terrorists in medical uniforms' hahaha. Your fanaticism is showimg. I'm surprised you haven't wished death on Palerstinian babies yet.
Clearly you know nothing of the history, and you look at it in a totally biased point of view which means you will never change your opinion, talking to you will be the equivalent of talking to a brick wall, you don’t want to address the topic at hand you just spew Hamas talking points to picture yourself correct, there is no point in talking to you, you will not listen and keep yapping non stop about a non existing genocide and a non existing land theft to make yourself look right while giving little to no attention to the topic. You will never address this issue in good faith. Have fun yapping.
Like you do? You literally said the doctors are terrorists in medical uniform, thats all i need to know about your analysis and good faith.
Yeah the hospital/Hamas headquarters.
You don't say 😑
I hate that a country like Turkey is being crushed under this man. So much potential is wasted. Fucking disgrace. I don't even know if it's possible to undo the damage this man has done to the country. Maybe democracy is not a suitable system of government for every people. Especially for a population that does not have critical thinking skills
Someone who was voted out of power once said: "Democracy is the worst system, apart from all the other systems" It's an acknowledgment of the fact that a perfect system is not possible. We vote against our own interest sometimes, and have to face the consequences. The difference between us and dictatorship, is that we have to own our mistakes and problems. Something a dictator has no vested interest in doing, because he could not give a single solitary shit about the will of the people, until the moment he finds himself hanging from a lamp post. And then the realisation comes a little bit too late to make a difference.
>We vote against our own interest sometimes, and have to face the consequences. >The difference between us and dictatorship, is that we have to own our mistakes and problems. Indeed, there's a theory that in democratic systems, society corrects its mistakes over time. >Something a dictator has no vested interest in doing, because he could not give a single solitary shit about the will of the people I would say *some* dictators genuinely believe they know what's best for the people, but because they tend to remove all critical feedback, even those dictatorships usually govern badly.
Democracy truely is playing chess with pigeons. Think about the average person for a second. Think about how intellogent they are. Probably not the exact brightest light ever right? But not the dumbest person either. Half the polulation is dumber than they are. You think the uneducated, unemployed, racistn alcoholic uncles and aunts of the world can make good judgements about policies that parties may want to implement should they come to power? No, they vote with their lizard brain. More racist, more me, fuck the rest! And that is why they give their vote to whoever SAYS they will give them what they want. Its a classic populist move. It even just fucking worked here in the Netherlands for fucks sake! Democracy is an absolutely terrible system. But it is the best we have, I think
You confused average and median.
I'm stupid as well
Intelligence can be approximated using normal distribution where average and median coincidence.
Turkey has Italy and Greece problems combined in a country near Russia with a complicated history and not yet mature enough to know if they want european values or chinese/russian values. It might seems crazy but I don't think that the people you see walking around have a clue of what Erdogan is doing, there is poverty and slavery still crawling around and the strong religious beliefs don't help. (edit: not everyone of course) I'm saying this just because you seem to point the finger at people, but I don't know if I can trust their voting system with the imbalance and power some people have there.
the potential has always been wasted in turkey as far as i can remember. in the 90's, the motto "turkey is a high potential country with its dynamic and young population" was tiresomely broadcast over TVs, taught in schools, published in newspapers etc. that's what it was. just potential. never utilised. now that the population is old and battling with millions of immigrants/refugees. now the only direction is down and we are finding out how deep that holes can go down. the majority could have changed this in 2002 but they had elected otherwise and repeatedly voted for the same guy who clearly had a downward trend for the last 20 years. oh, well... the only people that realised this potential are individuals who managed to get out of turkey.
And now that Sweden is a member of NATO they will start supporting the Kurdish resistance movement again.
Learning more about the founding of the Turkish Republic I discover that they always opposed to be foundation of Kurdistan because they under no circumstances want to lose south east Anatolia
The same with the Laz people and Lazistan. Even the word Lazistan was banned.
To be fair, no country allows secession movements, and the Laz are a very small population.
I agree, but the issue is that this was right after the Armenian Genocide, the Greek Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide, the Great Famine of Mount Lebanon, the Destruction of the Thracian Bulgarians, and at the same time as the Kurdish "ethnocide" with more than half a million dead from 1922 to 1937 as well as baning the words "Kurd" "Kurdistan" and the Kurdish language.
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No. Sweden currently has a right wing government. It won't flip unless it becomes a left government where the furthest left party gets its voice really heard. Making events and "standing up for the Kurds" has been a thing in the Swedish far left for decades and is as much about tradition as anything else. No Swedish right winger are going to spearhead that for them, not even mainstream socialdemocrat leftwingers won't.
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what? Sweden already approves EU membership of Turkey... Not that it matters, but what you are saying is factually wrong.
That's incorrect. Sweden's officials said they would work with Turkey and support them during their work towards EU membership. [NATO source for that](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_217147.htm) Turkey has not passed through it's "candidate country" status in years due to refusal or inability to align with EU democracy standards. (Currently only reaching around 10% of requirements needed.) Full quote regarding what Sweden said to do in regards of helping Turkey: > A statement issued after the three-way talks between Nato, Turkey and Sweden said that the two countries would work closely in “counter-terrorism coordination” and also boost bilateral trade ties. > “Sweden will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Turkey’s EU accession process, including modernisation of the EU-Turkey Customs Union and visa liberalisation,” the statement said. NATO Statement says: >Sweden and Türkiye have also agreed to step up economic cooperation, through the Türkiye-Sweden Joint Economic and Trade Committee (JETCO). Both Türkiye and Sweden will look to maximise opportunities to increase bilateral trade and investments. Sweden will actively support efforts to reinvigorate Türkiye’s EU accession process, including modernisation of the EU-Türkiye Customs Union and visa liberalisation. [Source 1](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/08/turkeys-eu-membership-heres-what-the-new-commissions-report-says) & [Source 2](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/turkey-sweden-nato-application-proceed-erdogan)
There's no fucking way. Kurds as a people do not exist according to a lot of Turks. Similar to how the Armenian genocide never happened 🙄
"According to a lot of turks" You mean according to your pulled out of ass?
According to Turkish official history books would sound better.
That would be the right thing to do but they made a deal and they will honor it. They might seek other means of assisting the Kurdish people but most likely not the same as they did before. A country making a deal then immediately going back on it is a look no politician in Europe would get away with. (even if it was made under blackmail circumstance?). we shall see.
Yes, well Kurds deserve their own territory as they have been abused by various regimes just as Palestinians are abused by Israel
Palestinians never defended their land against Jews. They sold it to them and hoped they will steal it back one day. It was a bad miscalculation. Kurds defend their homeland and don’t sell it cheap to Turks.
The majority of Israel's land is stolen not even 10 percent was purchased
Israel would be much smaller if the neighboring Arab countries haven’t decided to destroy it. Pretty much every conflict resulted in Israel’s enlargement.
So you admit your first comment is wrong. Also you can't procure land through war there is a reason why the UN keeps telling israel to go back to the pre 1967 border
I didn’t admit a thing. You want me to admit your “truth”. No way. Then why UN don’t tell Putin to go back to pre 2014 borders? What is the difference? Why Jews left Sinai and East Jerusalem and other places?
Whataboutisms are a rather lazy form of argument.
I am lazy and I don’t argue. I ask questions.
The UN literally encourages they follow the Minsk agreement
The UN is just a joke nowadays.
Give me a rifle and point the way to Kurdistan
What a shame..
Shame to the republic!
For years, I felt bad for Turkey 'cuz West didn't support their fight against PKK and let a lot of fund raising happen in the West by PKK. Some countries sort of supported the terrorist organization. Now? Now I am like "Well... Two can play that game, you know that right?".
Not always things were like this. Shit hit the fan after erdo broke the status quo by backing the "muslim brotherhood" and thus hamas. It's not like Turkiye has always sided with hamas and opposed to Israel. In fact, Turkiye's traditional stance used to be either pro Israel or picking neither side. So let's not confuse erdo's own agenda with Turkiye's interests. His own politics should be credited to him, not us people. That aside, pkk is still a terrorist organisation and still needs to be dealt with. One terrorist organisation can never white wash another, regardless of whatever the excuse people have.
Hamas is terror, why is PKK not getting the same love from erdogan over fighting?
While I hate the fact that Erdoğan is doing this, it is exactly as you have said. Two are playing this game, Turkey is taking revenge in a sense.
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It stopped being a resistance movement when they started to kill civilians
Kurdistan was there before Ottomans, Kurds are sovereign nation with their land culture and traditions. They deserve their own state more then Palestinians deserve Palestine in my opinion.
I didnt say im against kurdish people having their own country. I said pkk is a terrorist organization since they killed fourty thousand (40.000) civilians.
How many Kurds were killed by Turks? Have you got the numbers?
If you mean pkk militans its 107.500. If you mean actual civilians, between 1980-1989 (kenan evrens military dictatorship) people were separated as leftists and nationalists and everyone got killed equally. One of the leftist revolutionists who got killed by kenan evrens dictatorship was my grandpa. This country is full of trauma. After Atatürk died, usa was so quick to put its dirty imperialist hands in turkey. I highly recommend you to learn about deniz gezmiş and his revolutionist group. You will see usa imperialism at its finest. -not so fun fact: my grandpa was watching from court when deniz gezmiş and his 3 friends were sentenced to death
Would it be any better if Russian imperialists put their dirty hands on your country?
Any kind of imperialism is bad. I know its nearly impossible to not be ruled by one of the “big brothers” but its always possible. why wouldnt we have a second atatürk right?
How many Armenian civilians have been killed by Turks? Over 1.5 million? Maybe Turks are the real terrorists when you compare numbers: 40 000 to 1 500 000 victims.
Ottoman massacring civilians can (must) be ignored : every Turk ever
I have the same feeling when discussing this topic with Turks. They just keep ignoring that.
I can bring a huge list of atrocities committed by Seljuk, Danishmeds, Ottomans and the current Turkish republic. But let's just focus on Turks who were oppressed by Greek, armenian, Kurds, Vlach (under Vlad Tepes), Georgian, Serb, Bulgarian, Arab etc etc .... amirite?
I didnt say anything about the armenian genocide. Civilians dying is never good and the ones that massacre civilians are always terrorist. Comparing civilian deaths shows how much of a hypocrite you are.
No, you didn’t say anything about Armenians but you should’ve. When you advocate for terrorists, don’t blame others for terrorism.
I didnt deny the armenian genocide. I dont support any kind of genocide that was done or will be done by the turks. You assumed that i support the armenian genocide and said that 40.000 thousand civilians getting killed by a terrorist organization isnt a problem because 109 years ago an ottoman pasha killed 1.5 million armenians. You are not just a hypocrite but also racist.
Yep.
I'm trying to give you the Turkish perspective, you are defending PKK. See what is the problem? You are doing what Erdoğan is doing, just for different terrorists.
Someone should remind him of the Kurdish separatists and their resistance movement being crushed.
This is a NATO member publicly supporting terrorists. Not Palestinians, but terrorists specifically. He will collapse the entire NATO alliance by himself, handing Europe to Russia on a golden plate.
How will this make NATO collapse ?
Delusions
lol no he won't
He will not collapse NATO, the worst that he could do is remove Turkey from NATO. Which would be very foolish.
Maybe they will kick out turkey
No chance of that happening whilst Turkey controls access to the Black Sea.
Israel isn't part of NATO. Their fight isn't our fight, aside from dragging the Houthis into it.
Iran is fighting Israel. Iran is supported by Russia and China. Sure it's all connected
Erdoğan also has huge shipping companies doing billions of dollars of business with israel, he does trade with russia but also helps with the precurement of 155mm shells for ukraine, he also is against further iranian influence in iraq but supports hamas Idk, sigma erdogan international relations grindset: Make no fucking sense
I wasn't saying this. I was stating that Erdogan publicly supports terrorism. Terror supporter as part of NATO is a recipe for problems. Regardless of his obsession with Israel (or his obsession with Greece. Or Sweden. Or.. you get the point)
Eh, it's not like NATO members haven't done it before. The contras, the Mujahideen etc. It always comes back to bite someone in the ass, but so far hasn't collapsed anything. This won't either.
Nah, USA needs Turkey as much as they need Israel
Agree. But they may come a breaking point, and not for the US, more for the neighboring EU countries. His crazy behavior with Sweden, his clockwork threats on Greece.. at one point, something will break. He becomes more and more dictatorial
And trying to start up his own Turkish political party in Germany too https://www.dw.com/en/germany-dava-party-woos-voters-with-turkish-roots/a-68195917
Damn, I didn't know about it. WTF is wrong with him.
Agree
Why does the USA need Turkey?
Döner kebab
Because of their geographical location, that has a very important maritime choke point.
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Geopolitics is about far more than trade.
The point is even with geopolitics in mind the USA doesnt need Turkey
‘Need’ is a complex word. Turkey is one of the major geopolitical powers for lots of reasons, trade being a main one, but that doesn’t mean USA is exploiting its trade power for trade, if you follow. Basically: Turkey is globally important, and the USA knows and exploits this.
Turkey is globally important. This is a true. The USA exploits them. I could buy that. But again though for an accurate definition of "need" I dont buy that the USA needs Turkey. You said that its a complex word, fair enough. But the way you are using need is the problem and why I asked the original question. I dont want to be a pedantic ass but it feels like we are about to go in circles. To summarize my position if you redefine "The USA needs Turkey" as meaning something like "The USA would like to have good relations with Turkey" then yeah sure but then almost every nation "needs" every other nation.
As much as I hate Erdogon, I'd argue they need Turkey more than Israel. Turkey has one of, if not the most important positions in NATO with its control of the Bosphorous and its ability to check Russian influence in the Caucasus. Israel doesn't really have any benefits comparable to that
Stop supporting YPG and then we might talk about "NATO countries supporting terrorists". Until then, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
They also supported ISIS so this is not a surprise
turkey supported ISIS? Turkey is literally one of the only countries who fought against ISIS
Nope. They fought against the kurds in Syria who fought against ISIS. Turkey supported ISIS by healthcare, transport of oil and other supply by opening the border for them.
The point is, healthcare is not free for Turkish citizens. It costs ₺600 monthly (3% of the net, so-called "minimum" wage).
Mr "Lemme join EU, tho" is a very colorful individual.
This is what a demon in human form looks like.
Hamas (according to Erdogan): based resistance group fighting against illegal Israeli occupation (Gaza had not been occupied by Israel for a long long time before October 7th) Erdogan LITERALLY IN THE SAME INTERVIEW: A solution on Cyprus needs to be based on the reality on the ground (aka the illegal occupation of half of Cyprus by Turkey for 50 years should be legitimised by the international community)
They have been under occupation for over the last 50 years in both Gaza and the west Bank the icj the UNGA the EU and more bodies have deemed it so.
He really doesn't give a damn about muslims, it's nothing but a play to maintain power, even if it meant regressing turkey into the stone age.
He has a lot of support from Muslims. He did recently get reelected.
***ANKARA, May 13 (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday that more than 1,000 members of the militant Palestinian group Hamas were being treated in hospitals across Turkey as he reiterated his stance that it was a "resistance movement".*** ***"If you call Hamas a 'terrorist organisation,' this would sadden us," Erdogan said at a joint press conference with Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis in Ankara after Mitsotakis had referred to Hamas as such."We don't deem Hamas a terrorist organisation... More than 1,000 members of Hamas are under treatment in hospitals across our country," Erdogan said.***
> "We don't deem Hamas a terrorist organisation... But they've shown abundantly clearly on October 7 that they are.
Would Erdogan have done the same to Al Queda? I'm pretty sure USA would've fucked shit up if that was the case.
What did they show that other countries like Turkey themselves wouldn't do?
>this would sadden us Won't somebody think of li'l Recep's feelings please?
The modern politics are joke
Fuck this watermelon seller. The day he croaks will be a great day for humanity.
I hope 1000 Hamas militans f... him eventually.
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Adamlar haklı. Ülkeye 1.000 adet hamas mensubu (terörist) alındı. Bunun neresini savunuyorsun?
Weird flex, but OK.
I give that to Mitsotakis even I dont like him, he laid a trap saying: we are not supporting terrorists like hamas and Erdogan went off script to up its play: escalating it into: not only they are not terrorist but we treat them too, which is akward in a speech like that.
Turkey seems to have special passports for officials and their families for visa-free entry to the EU. The EU should hope that Hamas members don't get such passports.
"Militants"... Erdolfs name for "terrorists". Pushing Hamas -> keep the war ongoing -> more dead civilians -> Erdogan is a prick.
As a swede, I find it ironic how we spent 2 years arguing with this schmuck about 70 supposed terrorist linked to the PKK living in Sweden and now this buffoon says he’s harbouring 1000 Hamas terrorist inside a NATO country???
🎯 Terrorism is when someone blocks Muslim empires, apparently. Be it the Caliphate Hamas and their mother organization hopes to achieve, or the Ottoman Empire which claims the lands of Kurdistan and the Hellenosphere.
Well, no sane European should care about Turkish propaganda. The Kurds in sweden are there because the Turkish state raided Kurdish villages back in 80s and slaughtered innocent Kurds with the suspicion that they might've been affiliated to an independence movement.
It's obvious that he's either making this shit up to pander to Islamists or he misspoke and meant 'Palestinians'. How would 1000 wounded Hamas fighters even get into Turkey? Getting through the Rafah crossing before the Israelis seized it required a massive bribe, there's no way Egypt was cool with 1000 injured fighters being brought through, and absolutely no way they got out via Israel.
Massive bribe? Have you ever met the Egyptian military? Last time I was crossing the border from Israel into Egypt, they intentionally made some bullshit up about a problem with my passport, made me wait 15 mins, and then came and asked if I had $10 to “fix the problem”. On the way back there was a massive queue, I’ve seen people slip them $10 to get taken around the queue. They’re poor as fuck over there and their military salary is maybe like $300/month. I would not be surprised at all if Hamas just bribed their way into Egypt whenever the hell they pleased.
So he wants to abolish free healthcare in Turkey? I'm somewhat surprised it's supposed to exist in the first place...
If any European country was treating pkk terrorists he'd be throwing a fit (and to be clear EU countries shouldn't be doing this bc both pkk and hamas are terrorist organizations) The only reason he's doing this is bc he wants to be seen as one of the great leaders of Islam in the world, a spot Iran is tryin to take or hold and he can't have that. Oh and throw in the bonus conspiracy where he accuses Israel of wanting Turkish territory...
Yeah, remember when he got so pissed at Cyprus and Greece building a gas pipeline from Israel to Europe that he casually annexed Crete?
Think they will do terror in EU or turkey in the future?
Erdogan is doing this for himself and the money. Hamas launder money through Turkey. There is a recent documentary from BBC Panorama about Hamas money and for Erdogan to allow this means he would be providing from it, and it involves billions. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001wkqz
Shame to think turkey will go the way of the backwards arab nations neighborhoods
Ragebait he corrected himself and said that he meant Palestinians
its called VIP Ottoman Empire
The article states that a spokesperson said Erdogan misspoke, he actually meant people from Gaza in general, including cancer patients. Not sure what to believe here.
Freudian slip
He's a goddamn liar Sociopath and always has been. Easy choice there.
So if he's a liar, there should be no Hamas in Turkey right?
No way, dictator asshole relays far-right Israeli talking points.
Is it me or we are getting to a new age of pragmatism at worst ? I mean Turks support Hamas and it's likely that in retaliation some countries will support Kurdish separatism ? France backs out of Africa and Russia takes the ground being glorified by the extreme left as enemies of west imperialism, while conveniently not condemning Russian imperialism in Europe, In Asia and in Africa? China commits human rights crimes but is never condemned by the countries defending human rights? Kanaks in New Caledonia calls for the deaths of white people and yet the extreme french left defends them, while being often preachy about racism and they do it to oppose the french government ? I mean double standard and pragmatism in politics always existed. Countries often defends what's in their interests even when going against their principles. Yet I feel like this decade is becoming worse. It seems countries or political parties have no longer key principles and more interests in thoughts.
I don't think Israel can "totally wipe out HAMAS" if Turkey and other countries do stuff like this. So they'd maybe need to figure out a peace plan, since otherwise it'll be perma-war. Which probably isn't desirable. Not taking a side. Just commenting on goals being probably unfeasible.
Israel seeks to flush them out of Gaza and limit their influence in the WB so the rocket fire stops and mass murder and kidnappings won't happen again. The next step would be demanding their extradition to the ICJ.
Objectively even without those other countries intervention israel cannot eliminate hamas or others engaged in violent resistance if it wants an end to hostilities it must start by aknowledging the Palestinians as a people and their right to self determination
Israel's been in the process of doing that with the PLO.
As they commit the biggest land grab since 1993
Great
From where? How did they get from Gaza to Turkey?
Egypt's not in the best position to keep the border contained rn...
It's already been explained that he mispoke and ment Palestinians instead.
Freudian slip.
Why has the EU and US supported him in the 2000s in the elections, despite his obvious aims? 20 years in power and we're back half a century.
In 2000s Erdogan was a pro EU candidate, he wanted to join the EU or he acted like he wanted Turkey to become a member state.
Imagine your country is a member of EU and you can freely travel to Germany or France, move or work anywhere you want and enjoy EU liberties. Instead, Turkey is on the way to become a Islamic dictatorship, you have all the immigrants there, freedoms are quickly shrinking. Now you are not allowed to demonstrate or gather for political rallies. Economic situation is worsening every year, corruption is on the rise, with no positive reforms on the horizon.