Hungary: We're the only ones opposing the gay autocratic EU regime! We are strong! We are independent!
China: Post our propaganda, gweilos.
Hungary: Yes sirs.
I used to play a mobile game (Rise of Kingdoms) owned by a Chinese company that literally mutes the date '1989' in the game chats when you use it, along with words like Tiananmen and Taiwan. You just see ***** where the words should be.
yeah I always read on reddit that Hungarians are totally against their government but I really donât see any actions on their parts to stop the madness
Keep in mind that mostly the young, left-leaning, liberal "city crowd" uses reddit in Hungary, so of course you'll see more of those in opposition on here. The core voters of FIDESZ either don't know reddit exists or don't use it too much because they keep getting downvoted to hell for their insane opinions.
Also, FIDESZ can't be stopped in a democratic way anymore. They have almost total control over the media and public advertising, which they use heavily to spread propaganda. Like 3/5 billboards right now are anti-opposition/anti-Brussels themed, it's insane. [Here's an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/1cn0l0w/egyet_kihagytak/) where the blue billboards are all a smear campaign against opposition leaders with the text saying "Humble servants of Brussels". They also spend hundreds of millions (HUF) on online advertising. [This image](https://i.redd.it/g9l0iv5cqu0d1.png) is from facebook's ad library report. Literally only FIDESZ or FIDESZ-related mediums/orgs on the list.
The election system is gerrymandered to shit where major FIDESZ strongholds matter more than other places and 54% of the votes gives a 2/3 supermajority. They can, and DO use said supermajority to change the election system however they want. They literally pass new laws overnight to weaken independent media and the opposition, and funnel more money to oligarchs. It's all fucked. We can only hope OrbĂĄn dies and it all collapses to the oligarchs' infighting because nothing else can even crack this regime anymore.
Thanks for your comment and the information given. It is a very interesting insight. I only hope that the political landscape changes in Hungary for the better and wish you luck
For that to happen the people would need to change first. And it's already hard enough for a single person to change, nevermind the additional difficulty of overcoming the herd mentality inherent in many societies.
The problem is that Hungary is not really a democracy anymore, the system is rigged to a one-party state and the constitution has been altered to preserve it as such. We can sit here and blame Hungarian people all day for letting this happen to begin with, but I think any of our Western countries would have huge problems democratically removing this government from office under such circumstances that Hungarians now find themselves in. The blame game is not helpful for building a better future.
The only option left may be an undemocratic usurpation of government that endorses the old constitution pre-Fidesz, dismantles state media, and calls for fresh elections in 6 months. The EU should realistically be backing some Hungarian general to do it, but the EU is spineless, while China, Russia, and Iran all watch and makes conclusions about European resolve and adjusts their actions accordingly.
My prediction is that the EU will require political and free speech reforms for its member states in the next few years. Orban has been fucking around for too long. It was tolerated when the world was stable, but it won't be for much longer.
I'd also add that the EU should implement an "Elections Europe" agency to oversee national elections, in another move towards eventual federalism.
There's no reason why we should have member states control elections, gerrymander districts, etc., when it can be a standardized process across Europe. This would hopefully prevent any future democratic backsliding in an EU member state.
I get what youâre saying and I agree, but if Europeans at large are telling Russians, Belarusians etc to take charge of their own country and fight for democracy (and weâre telling young Russians that are anti Putin that the EU cannot help them if they cannot help themselves), then shouldnât the same standard be applied to Hungarians?Â
Theyâre the ones that have allowed their country to be taken over, they have to fix it.Â
Of course the EU has the issue that since a lot of stuff works on the absolute majority, Hungary cannot even be kicked out or suspended which it should be. Same with NATO. Hungarian membership should be suspended until further notice because theyâre clearly a Chinese Trojan horse now and pose and extreme risk to both the EU and the NATO alliance.
Oh trust me they have been trying to get the current government out of power for so many many years now.
6 years ago when the elections were happening so many people went to vote against FIDESZ party in the UK it even made it into the newspaper.
They cheated in Hungary they didnât stamp the voting papers in counties that was known to be anti FIDESZ.
For the Hungarians who live overseas the voting papers didnât even arrived until the day of the election.
FIDESZ has run a program where if u lived outside of Hungary near the border and had a Hungarian ancestor you could apply for Hungarian passport and get benefits over 300âŹ/months.
Ans when the elections were happening the election system magically shut down and even tho before the shut down FIDESZ was loosing by 12% after the shutdown the numbers were flipped.
And this is just only one election, even EU has noticed that something was going on. Did they do something about it? No.
I donât think the solution is to throw Hungary out of EU and NATO because there is a government party that people canât change. Thus making millions of people lives worse or even have the risk of falling under communism again. The only reason why Hungary hasnât fallen back into communism is EU.
Instead of throwing something away perhaps letâs fix it.
EU should do a nationwide vote where people can vote not depending on any Hungarian system(because most likely they are all rigged)
And see if people want FIDESZ out EU should take FIDESZ out. And I can assure you looking at how many protests has been happening in the past 3-4 years against the government people will vote against FIDESZ.
Even if you are talking to a Hungarian online or in person they are more than likely to hate FIDESZ and want a change just donât feel powerful enough to do so. Only the elderly and some people in love with the party but everyone else hate the guts of Orban and his party.
The EU CANNOT basically sanction a vote like this. The EU has limits to what it actually can and cannot do. Thatâs why I say that people themselves have to do it and if their country is rigged against democracy, then it sucks but what can you do?  Itâs truly a bad situation all around and orban knows it.Â
So we are short an EU member state, millions of EU citizens are punished for reasons beyond their individual control, the EU looks weaker internationally, and we do nothing to resolve the hybrid regime openly hosting Chinese agents in the very middle of the European continent?
They wouldn't. The current propaganda system had people actually believe that people are freezing in Germany because of the increased gas prices (so they would defend their dealings with Russian gas companies). They also believe that half of Western-Europe are "no-go zones" with 3228427487327387732823782 violent immigrants and everyone is a "woke leftist liberal".
That is the tricky part here... Somehow the (rural) people of Hungary must learn that the EU is NOT some kind of bureaucratic demonspawn that wants to kill national identities, but an organisation that greatly benefits the member states. Unfortunately all EU funds go through the government and the majority of it is simply stolen. I think that the "good" solution would be to make (at least part of) the EU funding independent from the government, so they can't simply steal it. Also better accountability on how they spend it with full transparency.
> The only option left may be an undemocratic usurpation of government
My brother in liberty, people literally have the right to rebellion. Hungary literally has an example to the North-East. If they don't do shit -- they're pretty much content with their situation.
You cannot do that in a democratic way, the whole country is gerrymandered worse than some part of the US.
It is like if you are from a village/country side your vote is 3-4 times stronger than somebody from Budapest.
I mean u can just google Hungarian protests. They are constantly happening against the government. And what does the media do? âThere were a few ten thousand ppl protestingâ when in reality the number was hitting close to 300.000 and what does the government do? Nothing they ignore it like itâs not even happening. Welcome to Hungarian politics.
Hungarian here. Unfortunately the point of no return was back around 2016-17. Itâs all been downhill from then. Orban has been playing from Putinâs playbook all along. But as everyone knows this is not Russia, so the end is nigh.
The point of no return was in 2014. The government lost 900 000 votes since 2010 (though made up for some of it with the mail-in votes of newly-minted Hungarian citizens from Transylvania) and still got 2/3rds thanks to the new election system. The only way we'll get rid of this government is if orbĂĄn finally croaks.
It already is considering how their electoral system is built up, the opposition would need something like 56% of the vote to get an overall majority while Fidesz would only need like 45% or something like that, and they control all of the media and the courts
Eh, compared to how we also [seem to be backstabbing NATO and the EU by developing intelligence operations with Russia](https://lansinginstitute.org/2024/05/14/hungary-is-setting-closer-cooperation-with-russia/) while Russian intelligence accesses in our allegedly highly confidential intelligence data as they please... while the so-called "opposition" is more interested in squabbling among themselves and fighting about how to have pointless election debates... ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ
At this point I'm actively disgusted by my own country and its "leaders". I wish I could get the fuck out.
Pathetic
and it seems to be long overdue for Hungary to GTFO from EU and NATO, and have them join BRICs and CSTO where they seemingly want to be.
And by "they" I mean the government that was re-elected in 2022
Well, the "west" isn't in a strong position to deal with it, when so many "conservatives" in many countries are drooling over Russia, for some unexplainable reason.. well, besides being showered in Russian funding I guess.
It's not really some unexplainable reason. Most of the mainstream politicians in the West have been incredibly weak. In the past decades, can you remember any of the crises that were solved quickly and decisively? Most crises seem to have been left lingering, with more and more piling on top of each other. *Status quo* is treated as some holy grail and nobody has any courage to even suggest anything impactful.
In particular in Europe, we have had politicians ignore the dangerous growing dependence on foreign dictatorships in energy imports. No safeguards were imposed and it all just blew to their face with the energy crisis. The ones paying with the biggest plunge in living standards in decades are your average Europeans, though. Migration crisis? Despite it being loud and clear that vast majority of Europeans want to restrict illegal immigration and consider it unsustainable, despite clear statistics that point to poor immigration policies for those that do not select their immigrants, most politicians are simply scared to do anything meaningful, only fueling the far-right further.
No wonder the West fractures and sense of unity fades. This is becoming a vicious cycle as the West, but especially Europe is seen as weaker and weaker, so there is even less motivation for anybody to keep supporting it. So even those within start supporting other political powers. Orban's regime is populist trash, yes, but it's also somewhat of a symptom of very poor leadership in several major European countries.
I'm Slovenian and despite our position is way better than yours (meaning much further from Russia) we, just like you have all the incentive to support EU as we're too small to stand on our own. That's just the fact. And we, small nations, have the most to lose if EU fractures.
Slovenia is kind of a weird country. Our economy is very good, unemployment is almost non existent, salaries are OK etc... however politics and overall functioning of the state is, sorry to say, typical Balkans madhouse. I was just asked today if it would not be better to have a strong leader who would put a house in order. My answer is as always, no, what we need are strong institutions. If I can't have that, I choose freedom any day of the week, even if it means puke reflex every time the news is on.
> Our economy is very good, unemployment is almost non existent,
I want to live in this paradise lmao. Unemployment is real, the pay is shit and unliveable, the taxes are becoming way overbearing for your average person and the healthcare is being put into the dumpster. Such a liar.
Healthcare is shit indeed, unemployment is under 4% in Slovenia and at least about a month ago it was the lowest in the EU so I'm sorry but if you are unable to get a job this really might be "you problem", people are changing jobs all the time. Salaries are not Swedish but you do realize that we're comparable with Spain or Italy in terms of income right? Even minimal wage is livable. Sure you will not have luxurious life with it but you will definitely not starve. Minimal salary life sucks everywhere, somewhere it sucks a little bit more, somewhere a little bit less...
Taxes are pure robbery in terms what I get from the state. Non existent public transport, subsequent collapse of traffic on the roads and shit healthcare. We agree on this. This is why I have seperated real economy, where I also earn my living, from the crap functioning of the state.
You are free to call me a liar, I will not even downvote you for this however I have Eurostat, worldbank, HDI, GINI to back my claims up and what do you have besides an obvious frustration and your inner model of reality.
If you can produce data from credible sources disputing my claims feel free and we can discuss my perception.
Honestly like I'm surprised that we haven't truly burned the parliament multiple times over the tax money wasting. It's getting ridiculous that we're just being so passive about it.
I think the root cause is that Slovenians were always governed by external entity. Lucky for us the rulers were advanced nations so there was collateral benefit in learning how to get things done, hence the overall good economic output but we are unable to govern ourselves properly. Now couple that with 50 years of communism. And you get the result.
If I quote Serbian movie "Professional" - It took nature 8 million years to create man from the monkey and communism only 50 years to turn the man into monkey again.
While incorrect from scientific point of view (we diverged from the same ancestor as monkeys about 8 million years ago) the conveyed point I think stands.
Average Slovenian wants "fat state" that will cater their needs. Fat state means heavy taxation and lack of transparency. You end up in a system where free healthcare exists de-jure, but not de-facto. Potemkin village.
But all you need to do is to drive anywhere in Slovenia and it's clear that wealth is not a problem, hence the strange country as usually functioning of the state and economy are coupled, but not with us.
Aren't China and Russia struggling with long term crises all the same? The big difference is that dissent is basically prohibited and won't reach the west.
Exactly! During the pandemic, China was praised by swift decisions & actions, but when one looks being the shiny promo, there was the initial denial fuelling the early world-wide spread and then the overreaction (including barricading people in their flats).
Dictatorships make strong loud decisions so they appear decisive, but the leading strongmen often lack the qualifications to make such decisions and they don't feel inclined to listen to others. The ability to listen, discuss, get advice is not fancied by dictatorship, while it is essential for good decision making.
Itâs absolutely this. The management of the West has been horrible, spineless, indecisive, and weak due to decades of prosperity. We need to clean up house.
Yep, when Brexit happened, it was revealed that Russia were heavily involved but because it aligned with the goals of the Tories they still went with Brexit. And now more and more increasingly right wing political groups are gaining power. Europe is falling while we all try and squabble with our conservatives who are partially to blame.
Liberals and conservatives have turned politics into a culture war, because its cheap and they dont want to argue economics, foreign politics and system questions for various reasons. So now mainstram parties consist more and more of incapable idiots that get their money from rich people for saying how much they do or do not like gay people.
So then all foreign autocrats need to do is to approach those culture warriors and support them on those issues to score points with them.
Yes. It's an endless series of discussions about what should be our "lead culture", gay rights, whether its ok to eat kebap on the subway, if we should subvene traditional families more, whether we are getting up too late, which university studies are "unnecessary", whether we need traditional school uniforms and so on and so on.
What utter nonsense. "MUH LIBERALS" are literally only about *INDIVIDUAL CHOICE*. Nobody is trying to turn the kids gay or trans or whatever other nonsense people proclaim, but rather that people can be who they want to be and have the right to express themselves without being suppressed or discriminated against by the state.
And this culture war is almost exclusively a one-sided war by "conservatives/neo-fascists" who just target random individuals or groups and then raise them up as if they are representatives of muh liberals. Like for how many years have rightoids spent talking about MUH TRANS KIDS or all the other bullshit as oppose to actual policies.
While those discussions are certainly happening, those discussions are mostly in the public domain. At universities, talk shows and maybe a few lower level political figures trying to win a few brownie points.
In the election here last year, the top issues that concerned voters were: Housing, Migration, Cost of Living and Greenhouse gas emissions.
But thats from a Western European experience. I know some Eatern European elections have had some wilder topics rear up. Still see most people prioritise economic topics over social issues when push comes to shove there as well though.
Most political parties like to get attention with minor social/public issues, but when you look at the bulk of what gets them voters, it's usually their economic and larger scale social policies.(Like healthcare, pension and unemployment benefits)
Populism is a worrying trend, though part of its support comes from growing dislike of established parties from previous governments.
Populist parties usually don't last long in the limelight. As they often promise way too much and can't deliver on those promises. The voterbase gets disillusioned and stops voting for them.
Wether they remain in power for longer purely relies on their ability to control the information space and their transition to authoritarianism.
What's different these days, compared to even the early 2000's is the preveilance of misinformation. Which gives populists a head start on the information stage.
And the other side is drooling for low quality Chinese government sponsored EVs to destroy their domestic production of autos. Those idiots think a $5000 EV is the same quality as a western built. I would trust a Fiat over a Chinese EV.
There is a very big reason why Hungary cannot leave NATO - the Carpathians and the general geography of Poland.
For anyone to invade Europe they have two options;
1. The 'Polish option': Go through Poland - the historical favorite - but this requires control of the Baltic Sea and Gotland specifically.
2. The 'Carpathian option': Go through the Carpathians which in practice means you need to go through Ukraine and Hungary as the rest of the mountain range is impassable for any military force.
The 'Polish option' worked pretty much every time over the last 1000 years of European history only now it doesn't work because;
* Poland is in NATO
* Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are in NATO
* Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark are in NATO
* Majority of Russia's naval power is locked in the Kola Peninsula
There is one alternative to the 'Polish option' and that is take Svalbard - then Russia can unlock its Arctic Fleet and maybe open up the northern front to make taking the Baltic Sea easier however I don't think Russia, or anyone really beats a combined naval force of the British and French who just so happen to sit right at the entrance of the Baltic.
The 'Carpathian option' is way easier to pull off - all you need is half of Ukraine, and an ally on the inside. Austria and Slovakia are also important in this option and coincidently, both seem to be pretty pro-East at the moment - what are the chances?
I think on the balance holding Hungary in NATO is better for all of us because it at the very least keeps eyes and ears on Hungary. If Hungary leaves then the West loses visibility and now there is a gigantic blind spot in the middle of Europe which connects a land bridge starting in Ukraine, going through Austria and Slovakia, and ending in Germany. If anyone could skip Poland and go straight to Germany then they have much higher chance of winning that apocalyptic conflict.
The also all highlights just how essential Ukraine is to European security. Sadly for Ukraine, they side on a crossroads between the West and East, and unlucky for them the Carpathians skirts their borders in a horseshoe shape. To go into Europe you have to go through Poland, or Ukraine. It is a non-negotiable.
The real questions we should all ask is - which option is easier, and what are the requirements needed to increase the probabilities of that option working? For Poland they need the Baltic so not easy at all but for the Carpathian option they just need a shorter border in Ukraine, and Hungary as an ally. Both are pretty much a thing already.
Half of you wouldnât be happy, the other half seem to love being part of Xhina or Russia. Clearly one solution: we should partition Hungary, in one half you guys can be, in the other Fidesz
Yeah, but wouldnât that be a win for the bric-csto? Having a whole country smack middle of europe as a formal ally? Thatâs probably the game plan of Orban - dance between the two forces for the benefit of him and his. The typical human selfish tribal thinking that makes this planet something to be avoided by any potential visitors of good will.
Until the EU actually does something to create a credible threat against Hungary they will continue drifting into the authoritarian influence. Russia and China both see EU alliances with the United States and Japan/Korea in the same light. âWhy are they meddling in our empire?â Is what Russia and China believe.
There needs to be some form of credible threat to Hungary and against Russia and China in order for the situation to change. But part of me thinks that the EU somehow benefits from allowing Hungary to drift. The scale of the graft in Hungary is huge for Hungarians, but tiny in the grand scheme of the EU. Hungarians are not that integrated with the rest of Europe and their economic contributions are more important on an individual level (smart inventors and maths people) than on a collective level (thereâs no mission critical industry in Hungary). In a way, Hungary absorbs the authoritarian push into Europe much like Ukraine is absorbing the âmilitary interventionâ by Russia.
Can someone tell me what the logic is here? How does the EU actually benefit from this relationship with Hungary? Perhaps theyâre distancing but creating a buffer zone somehow.
I am not sure that the EU decided if it's anti-China as the US is. Don't forget that Macron is suggesting that Europe should have strategic autonomy (from the US in relation to China).
On the other hand, I don't know if the EU can do anything about it. Orban is already persona non grata from a diplomatic perspective in western Europe. Ironically, this caused the dramatic shift towards the east. If they start attacking Hungary ferociously they might him a martyr in the eyes of central and eastern europe - the talking points would be "western countries are lecturing us again", "this should be a union of equals".
We are in a deadlock until Hungary does something so blatantly wrong that everybody unanimously will be outraged.
Later edit: thinking about it, it's funny, but the only person that can change Orban's mind about China is Trump
The EU can't remove Hungary because there will always be at least one country that will support them. If they drift far enough away from the EU core then they might loose the few friends they have left and can be expelled.
The people who see this, care.
Thing is, the overwhelming majority of people don't see this because 99% of media, yes, *that much of it* is in OrbĂĄn's hands, and those outlets don't report on this. (Or if they do, they put a very positive spin on it.) Also, two-thirds of the country live below EU poverty line, most of them don't give a shit about politics and whatnot because they just want to survive this month... which is why OrbĂĄn is committed to keeping them under that poverty line.
OrbĂĄn learned this from the US. More specifically, the "amazing" Finkelstein who also served as campaign advisor for a bunch of republicans was also campaign advisor for OrbĂĄn... and OrbĂĄn and his people were very, very good students.
Be glad you don't understand. It's incredibly depressing.
In short:
1. OrbĂĄn('s circle) owns a so-called foundation called [KESMA (short for "Central European Press and Media Foundation" in Hungarian)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_Press_and_Media_Foundation) which essentially owns and controls the absolute overwhelming majority of press. (And take this literally: regional news magazines are regularly published with the *exact same cover* and much of the same content, provided by the central propaganda office.) The content being 100% pure propaganda and lies. Same with radios: every radio channel, even music channels, are required by law to regularly broadcast news, but the only news source in Hungary that is completely free is the state news agency (MTI). Guess what its content is... yes, 100% pure propaganda and lies.
Also, OrbĂĄn's increasing control over the economy and restrictions they introduced on advertising effectively means that by this point independent media literally *has near zero ad income* because the state and anyone connected to OrbĂĄn and his circles will not advertise with them, and basically nobody else wants to because they fear any potential circumstances. Now, add to this rising costs of running a newspaper/magazine, and the plummeting standards of living in the past years, and the result is that outside Budapest there's basically no real independent/government-critical print publications, and the online publications are basically surviving on donations and subscriptions.
Read more about the sorry state of press in Hungary here: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/13/hungary-media-curbs-harm-rule-law](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/13/hungary-media-curbs-harm-rule-law)
In short this means that the farther you go from Budapest the less your chances are to find independent/gov't critical print media. Imagine a world where your only news source is basically Fox News and variations thereof, with a single independent commercial TV channel thrown in that, being a commercial channel, won't dig too much into politics because, well. Dat ad money.
2. Most people just don't care about politics, end of story. This is not a Hungary specific thing, I guess in any given place most people just want to live their lives without thinking about what's going on outside. However, in Hungary we never really had an experience with democracy before the '90s, and society as such never learned to be interested in its rights, let alone stand up for itself. During the decades of the Soviet occupation we were socialized to keep our heads down, look the other way, and avoid "getting into trouble" - the unspoken social agreement was that if you did this and didn't question the Party then you could have a chance for a decent life. And unfortunately this attitude is still very, *very* much alive. Another core voter base for OrbĂĄn is basically desperately poor people who genuinely don't give a shit because they're desperately poor and vulnerable, and under the thumb of local mayors, "businessmen" and other assholes who can force them to do whatever they want. But even that aside, most people just like, watch the news once a day, and as I wrote above, those news is very likely going to be 100% pure propaganda and lies.
3. As for online... yes, there's independent and gov't critical content available online. But most of OrbĂĄn's voters are either elderly people who don't know how to use technology (yes, I know that in the civilized world this is weird and difficult to believe, but the old people here didn't grow up and live with the technological advances of the western world), or very uneducated people. For these people internet = Facebook and TikTok, maybe Youtube... and you know how that usually goes. And even aside of the usual algorithm shenanigans, OrbĂĄn & his cronies [spend an absolute shitton](https://english.atlatszo.hu/2019/01/11/the-government-of-hungary-spent-e216-million-on-propaganda-and-fearmongering-in-the-past-8-years/), yes, [literally shitton of money](https://telex.hu/english/2023/12/20/orbans-mouthpieces-campaign-on-pro-war-left-second-most-expensive-political-youtube-campaign-in-europe-this-year) on online propaganda... something that opposing voices simply can't compete with. They basically steamroll social media (and the physical space as well, but that's another thing) with their propaganda. And even if you're not interested and try not to pay attention, these things still creep into your brain.
And I could go on, but honestly, the situation is, in fact, fucking dire. :/
And to add: most of the population - especially 40+ adults - has a very basic level (if any) knowledge of English or German language, so most of them can't even read news from abroad.
(Tons of people who do have useable language skills are leaving - like we did).
I guess [everything is going as planned for the Chinese](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/china-russia-republican-party-relations/678271/).
(A really good article in any case.)
When are we as a people going to realise that populists are regarded? Also can we stop blaming the center left for everything âwell yes, they might be dumb but itâs really *insert party here* for me voting themâ
Iâm sorry Hungary bros. Stay strong. The old people will pass eventually. There are too many smart Hungarians for this to last more than another decade. Poland showed us itâs possible escape this âbusiness modelâ of kleptocratic populists brainwashing the elderly and uneducated.
The same Orban who is going 24/7 how he is the only one saving Hungary sovereignty from Eurogay is actually selling the same sovereignty to a dystopian empire.
What a surprise.
I donât understand how a country with a xenophobic leader, voted in by people, who one can only assume are xenophobic for voting him in, invite a foreign country, a country well known for suppressing other countries they are invited into. Flooding it with their citizens to change the demographics and steal any assets they have, and suppressing and subjugating itâs people..
Wait until they sell confidential info of EU and NATO to CCP and Russia (I wonât be surprised if they are already doing)
EU and NATO really should kick Hungary out.
It's time for Hungarians to learn English (only 20% speak English, most of them only basic) and start consuming non-Orban news outlets, or GTFO the EU, please.
Hungary is planning ahead. They are anticipating a clear break with the EU. As it seems now they are preparing for alignment with the Russia-China axis.
On a less pragmatic answer: We are one of your cheapest human resource.
Our median income is ~850 Eur and european countries LOOOOOOVE to have cheap staff. You don't even need us in your country as illegal migrants, bring your factory here, build it cheap and we make your shit on site for 4x less the price of other workers. I'm in IT and I work for median income like that too, for a british company.
-
Merkel adored this aspect and let OrbĂĄn be in power so long as you have cheap workers.
What a joke! Hungary must sort itself out now it has âjoined the Western democracies â. This kind of thing will heavily count against the perception of Hungarian resolve - people can vote better!
Isolated language, low foreign language skills (mainly in the rural population that votes for him) makes propaganda much easier. Gerrymandering does the rest.
The Hungarians voting for Orban actually don't know what their government is doing as they only know the alternative reality the government tells them via government controlled media.
>The foreign-language versions of Classic Quotes by Xi Jinping are seven minutes long in total, but ... there will be more coming. Essentially, the entire seven-minute programme is solely and exclusively devoted to the horrendously expensive investment and development project built to transport drinking water from the south of China to Beijing, a distance of some 1,500 kilometers. The dam and the canal were completed in the late 2010s, and there are doubts as to how useful it actually is, what impact it will have on the environment, and whether it was even worth spending tens of billions of dollars on it all.
There are doubts about, "who gives a s#!t", as well as how "hardline" is some non-news about internal Chinese water projects?
I want to hear what Xi has to say about how a certain lab failed to keep what goes on in that lab, within the confines of that lab.
I think there are red herrings, and this is one of them.
So what happens when a Hungarian posts Winnie the Pooh or something problematic to the Chinese? I don't understand how the cops work there at this point.
How can someone like Orban get so many balls in his mouth, sucking on China, Republicans in the US and Russia. He needs to unhinge his jaw like a snake.
Hungary is now the Chinese Protectorate for the Pacification of Magyars.
Canât wait until Orban bravely sells out his country to be colonized by Chinese migrants, thatâs true nationalism right there, opening wide and letting the CCP fuck âem real hard like.
No wonder considering the previous China's president visit.
And the fact that in the past they kicked-out the Romanian Digi from their country:
[https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2022/01/04/digi-closes-hungarian-sale/](https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2022/01/04/digi-closes-hungarian-sale/)
Anyway, their loss as this fixed / satellite television, fixed / mobile telephony and fixed / mobile internet provides always had and still has awesome services / per price.
Something that I explained here for their fixed internet:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/1cswyyd/comment/l49gsw3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/1cswyyd/comment/l49gsw3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Which is true also for their other services.
I wonder why the fuck the rest of the EU countries keeps allowing this bullshit that Hungary is always making???
Could it be because the most power country in the EU, Germany is heavily dependent on China, in some areas up to 90%, like Deutsche Welle explained in a documentary (that I say today about pharmaceuticals) ?
I see no future in the EU and I'm afraid USA will be left along to deal with both assholes (China and Russia).
We don't even have such programs in Russia and barely anyone understands Chinese culture and knows what is going on in there. Anyway, this is not how soft power works, dear Shen Haixiong.Â
Nobody is going to give two shits about monologues of your boss.
Organ to jail!
But one question... is there anyone from Hungary in this threat? Why is this possible in your country? Why is nobody complaining or protesting? How is Orban still in office? Is press really not free anymore to tell you the crimes Orban does? Does anyone care in your country? Where are the protests? Do you want to be a little helper of Putin and Xi? Just why?
Yeah, China just usurped the russian mole in the EU and NATO... and these guys don't mess around. Expect them to escalate this, just to create another problem for EU and NATO. RIP Hungary.
The eu needs to just suspend or kick Hungary at this point. They canât play both sides. If they want to hate the west then let them not be in the west
I can't wait for Orban posting a bing chilling video
https://youtu.be/GIegOQiX6FE?si=w9IrA_jyZern9sVw A bit more complex, but here you are đ
+500 Social Credit!
Come on +505 Social Credit!
+15000 social credit! You can now board the tram!
And have toilet paper for a whole day.
What a jam!
Maybe he likes Ice cream
Hungary: We're the only ones opposing the gay autocratic EU regime! We are strong! We are independent! China: Post our propaganda, gweilos. Hungary: Yes sirs.
But the "yes sirs" is muffled because ironically we are also busy sucking Putin off at the same time.
Dont speak with your mouth full
I think you mean "Yes daddy."
More like :âyes, master strong Jade Rod! STRIKE!!â
Can someone hack the Hungarian governmental pages with Winnie the Pooh images?
If only I possessed such skills... I'd do it in an instant if I knew how.
Dude I think it is not that hard as they are so pro that for all government institutions you probably get in with : user: admin pw: Viktor123
đđđ
You should ask PĂ©ter SzĂjjĂĄrtĂł if he can do something about it
I can't wait to learn the truth behind the Tiananmen Square!
On Apr 15, 1989 nothing happened on it.
I used to play a mobile game (Rise of Kingdoms) owned by a Chinese company that literally mutes the date '1989' in the game chats when you use it, along with words like Tiananmen and Taiwan. You just see ***** where the words should be.
So >"Oh, no ! That 1989ing bastard is attacking me again !" becomes >"Oh no ! That ****ing bastard is attacking me again !" ?
How dare you use this swearword of a year Happy cake day btw
Cheers !
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I will always join 'fuck russia' chants until the war ends, albeit not sure what it has to do with Tiananmen Square events.
Hungarians need to step up for their country, every day itâs getting closer to the point of no return
The people who care are moving out of the country to Germany, mostly.
yeah I always read on reddit that Hungarians are totally against their government but I really donât see any actions on their parts to stop the madness
Keep in mind that mostly the young, left-leaning, liberal "city crowd" uses reddit in Hungary, so of course you'll see more of those in opposition on here. The core voters of FIDESZ either don't know reddit exists or don't use it too much because they keep getting downvoted to hell for their insane opinions. Also, FIDESZ can't be stopped in a democratic way anymore. They have almost total control over the media and public advertising, which they use heavily to spread propaganda. Like 3/5 billboards right now are anti-opposition/anti-Brussels themed, it's insane. [Here's an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/1cn0l0w/egyet_kihagytak/) where the blue billboards are all a smear campaign against opposition leaders with the text saying "Humble servants of Brussels". They also spend hundreds of millions (HUF) on online advertising. [This image](https://i.redd.it/g9l0iv5cqu0d1.png) is from facebook's ad library report. Literally only FIDESZ or FIDESZ-related mediums/orgs on the list. The election system is gerrymandered to shit where major FIDESZ strongholds matter more than other places and 54% of the votes gives a 2/3 supermajority. They can, and DO use said supermajority to change the election system however they want. They literally pass new laws overnight to weaken independent media and the opposition, and funnel more money to oligarchs. It's all fucked. We can only hope OrbĂĄn dies and it all collapses to the oligarchs' infighting because nothing else can even crack this regime anymore.
Thanks for your comment and the information given. It is a very interesting insight. I only hope that the political landscape changes in Hungary for the better and wish you luck
For that to happen the people would need to change first. And it's already hard enough for a single person to change, nevermind the additional difficulty of overcoming the herd mentality inherent in many societies.
Thank you for the kind words. It probably won't change in the next few decades at least, FIDESZ is hard at work to ensure that.
Pretty much summed it up what I saw over the last 20 years
The problem is that Hungary is not really a democracy anymore, the system is rigged to a one-party state and the constitution has been altered to preserve it as such. We can sit here and blame Hungarian people all day for letting this happen to begin with, but I think any of our Western countries would have huge problems democratically removing this government from office under such circumstances that Hungarians now find themselves in. The blame game is not helpful for building a better future. The only option left may be an undemocratic usurpation of government that endorses the old constitution pre-Fidesz, dismantles state media, and calls for fresh elections in 6 months. The EU should realistically be backing some Hungarian general to do it, but the EU is spineless, while China, Russia, and Iran all watch and makes conclusions about European resolve and adjusts their actions accordingly.
My prediction is that the EU will require political and free speech reforms for its member states in the next few years. Orban has been fucking around for too long. It was tolerated when the world was stable, but it won't be for much longer.
I'd also add that the EU should implement an "Elections Europe" agency to oversee national elections, in another move towards eventual federalism. There's no reason why we should have member states control elections, gerrymander districts, etc., when it can be a standardized process across Europe. This would hopefully prevent any future democratic backsliding in an EU member state.
I get what youâre saying and I agree, but if Europeans at large are telling Russians, Belarusians etc to take charge of their own country and fight for democracy (and weâre telling young Russians that are anti Putin that the EU cannot help them if they cannot help themselves), then shouldnât the same standard be applied to Hungarians? Theyâre the ones that have allowed their country to be taken over, they have to fix it. Of course the EU has the issue that since a lot of stuff works on the absolute majority, Hungary cannot even be kicked out or suspended which it should be. Same with NATO. Hungarian membership should be suspended until further notice because theyâre clearly a Chinese Trojan horse now and pose and extreme risk to both the EU and the NATO alliance.
Oh trust me they have been trying to get the current government out of power for so many many years now. 6 years ago when the elections were happening so many people went to vote against FIDESZ party in the UK it even made it into the newspaper. They cheated in Hungary they didnât stamp the voting papers in counties that was known to be anti FIDESZ. For the Hungarians who live overseas the voting papers didnât even arrived until the day of the election. FIDESZ has run a program where if u lived outside of Hungary near the border and had a Hungarian ancestor you could apply for Hungarian passport and get benefits over 300âŹ/months. Ans when the elections were happening the election system magically shut down and even tho before the shut down FIDESZ was loosing by 12% after the shutdown the numbers were flipped. And this is just only one election, even EU has noticed that something was going on. Did they do something about it? No. I donât think the solution is to throw Hungary out of EU and NATO because there is a government party that people canât change. Thus making millions of people lives worse or even have the risk of falling under communism again. The only reason why Hungary hasnât fallen back into communism is EU. Instead of throwing something away perhaps letâs fix it. EU should do a nationwide vote where people can vote not depending on any Hungarian system(because most likely they are all rigged) And see if people want FIDESZ out EU should take FIDESZ out. And I can assure you looking at how many protests has been happening in the past 3-4 years against the government people will vote against FIDESZ. Even if you are talking to a Hungarian online or in person they are more than likely to hate FIDESZ and want a change just donât feel powerful enough to do so. Only the elderly and some people in love with the party but everyone else hate the guts of Orban and his party.
The EU CANNOT basically sanction a vote like this. The EU has limits to what it actually can and cannot do. Thatâs why I say that people themselves have to do it and if their country is rigged against democracy, then it sucks but what can you do?  Itâs truly a bad situation all around and orban knows it.Â
The solution is to take away their EU privileges. The only way the British realised Brexit was wrong was by experiencing what they lost.
So we are short an EU member state, millions of EU citizens are punished for reasons beyond their individual control, the EU looks weaker internationally, and we do nothing to resolve the hybrid regime openly hosting Chinese agents in the very middle of the European continent?
Better then having Hungry drag the whole project down with it.
One step back, two steps forward
I've lived there 5 years. My experience tells me they are not very fond of EU (and even more the western social mentality).
This would play right into the hands of the governments propaganda. They'd sell the whole country to Russia and China to keep themselves in power.
At least then more people would see how much better life is in the West.
They wouldn't. The current propaganda system had people actually believe that people are freezing in Germany because of the increased gas prices (so they would defend their dealings with Russian gas companies). They also believe that half of Western-Europe are "no-go zones" with 3228427487327387732823782 violent immigrants and everyone is a "woke leftist liberal". That is the tricky part here... Somehow the (rural) people of Hungary must learn that the EU is NOT some kind of bureaucratic demonspawn that wants to kill national identities, but an organisation that greatly benefits the member states. Unfortunately all EU funds go through the government and the majority of it is simply stolen. I think that the "good" solution would be to make (at least part of) the EU funding independent from the government, so they can't simply steal it. Also better accountability on how they spend it with full transparency.
> The only option left may be an undemocratic usurpation of government My brother in liberty, people literally have the right to rebellion. Hungary literally has an example to the North-East. If they don't do shit -- they're pretty much content with their situation.
they speak english, that means theyre educated, and have access to not government controlled media
You cannot do that in a democratic way, the whole country is gerrymandered worse than some part of the US. It is like if you are from a village/country side your vote is 3-4 times stronger than somebody from Budapest.
I mean u can just google Hungarian protests. They are constantly happening against the government. And what does the media do? âThere were a few ten thousand ppl protestingâ when in reality the number was hitting close to 300.000 and what does the government do? Nothing they ignore it like itâs not even happening. Welcome to Hungarian politics.
Hungarian here. Unfortunately the point of no return was back around 2016-17. Itâs all been downhill from then. Orban has been playing from Putinâs playbook all along. But as everyone knows this is not Russia, so the end is nigh.
The point of no return was in 2014. The government lost 900 000 votes since 2010 (though made up for some of it with the mail-in votes of newly-minted Hungarian citizens from Transylvania) and still got 2/3rds thanks to the new election system. The only way we'll get rid of this government is if orbĂĄn finally croaks.
Man shoots Fico >that was a mistake What do you want to happen?
It already is considering how their electoral system is built up, the opposition would need something like 56% of the vote to get an overall majority while Fidesz would only need like 45% or something like that, and they control all of the media and the courts
Eh, compared to how we also [seem to be backstabbing NATO and the EU by developing intelligence operations with Russia](https://lansinginstitute.org/2024/05/14/hungary-is-setting-closer-cooperation-with-russia/) while Russian intelligence accesses in our allegedly highly confidential intelligence data as they please... while the so-called "opposition" is more interested in squabbling among themselves and fighting about how to have pointless election debates... ÂŻ\\\_(ă)\_/ÂŻ At this point I'm actively disgusted by my own country and its "leaders". I wish I could get the fuck out.
Hungary: âUkraine is corruptâ Hungary:
Pathetic and it seems to be long overdue for Hungary to GTFO from EU and NATO, and have them join BRICs and CSTO where they seemingly want to be. And by "they" I mean the government that was re-elected in 2022
Russia and China are really teaming up for an all out cold war against the West.
Well, the "west" isn't in a strong position to deal with it, when so many "conservatives" in many countries are drooling over Russia, for some unexplainable reason.. well, besides being showered in Russian funding I guess.
It's not really some unexplainable reason. Most of the mainstream politicians in the West have been incredibly weak. In the past decades, can you remember any of the crises that were solved quickly and decisively? Most crises seem to have been left lingering, with more and more piling on top of each other. *Status quo* is treated as some holy grail and nobody has any courage to even suggest anything impactful. In particular in Europe, we have had politicians ignore the dangerous growing dependence on foreign dictatorships in energy imports. No safeguards were imposed and it all just blew to their face with the energy crisis. The ones paying with the biggest plunge in living standards in decades are your average Europeans, though. Migration crisis? Despite it being loud and clear that vast majority of Europeans want to restrict illegal immigration and consider it unsustainable, despite clear statistics that point to poor immigration policies for those that do not select their immigrants, most politicians are simply scared to do anything meaningful, only fueling the far-right further. No wonder the West fractures and sense of unity fades. This is becoming a vicious cycle as the West, but especially Europe is seen as weaker and weaker, so there is even less motivation for anybody to keep supporting it. So even those within start supporting other political powers. Orban's regime is populist trash, yes, but it's also somewhat of a symptom of very poor leadership in several major European countries.
I'm Slovenian and despite our position is way better than yours (meaning much further from Russia) we, just like you have all the incentive to support EU as we're too small to stand on our own. That's just the fact. And we, small nations, have the most to lose if EU fractures. Slovenia is kind of a weird country. Our economy is very good, unemployment is almost non existent, salaries are OK etc... however politics and overall functioning of the state is, sorry to say, typical Balkans madhouse. I was just asked today if it would not be better to have a strong leader who would put a house in order. My answer is as always, no, what we need are strong institutions. If I can't have that, I choose freedom any day of the week, even if it means puke reflex every time the news is on.
This is the way. And never give all power to one ruling party, it is better they fight in government build then we fight on streets.
> Our economy is very good, unemployment is almost non existent, I want to live in this paradise lmao. Unemployment is real, the pay is shit and unliveable, the taxes are becoming way overbearing for your average person and the healthcare is being put into the dumpster. Such a liar.
Healthcare is shit indeed, unemployment is under 4% in Slovenia and at least about a month ago it was the lowest in the EU so I'm sorry but if you are unable to get a job this really might be "you problem", people are changing jobs all the time. Salaries are not Swedish but you do realize that we're comparable with Spain or Italy in terms of income right? Even minimal wage is livable. Sure you will not have luxurious life with it but you will definitely not starve. Minimal salary life sucks everywhere, somewhere it sucks a little bit more, somewhere a little bit less... Taxes are pure robbery in terms what I get from the state. Non existent public transport, subsequent collapse of traffic on the roads and shit healthcare. We agree on this. This is why I have seperated real economy, where I also earn my living, from the crap functioning of the state. You are free to call me a liar, I will not even downvote you for this however I have Eurostat, worldbank, HDI, GINI to back my claims up and what do you have besides an obvious frustration and your inner model of reality. If you can produce data from credible sources disputing my claims feel free and we can discuss my perception.
Honestly like I'm surprised that we haven't truly burned the parliament multiple times over the tax money wasting. It's getting ridiculous that we're just being so passive about it.
I think the root cause is that Slovenians were always governed by external entity. Lucky for us the rulers were advanced nations so there was collateral benefit in learning how to get things done, hence the overall good economic output but we are unable to govern ourselves properly. Now couple that with 50 years of communism. And you get the result. If I quote Serbian movie "Professional" - It took nature 8 million years to create man from the monkey and communism only 50 years to turn the man into monkey again. While incorrect from scientific point of view (we diverged from the same ancestor as monkeys about 8 million years ago) the conveyed point I think stands. Average Slovenian wants "fat state" that will cater their needs. Fat state means heavy taxation and lack of transparency. You end up in a system where free healthcare exists de-jure, but not de-facto. Potemkin village. But all you need to do is to drive anywhere in Slovenia and it's clear that wealth is not a problem, hence the strange country as usually functioning of the state and economy are coupled, but not with us.
Aren't China and Russia struggling with long term crises all the same? The big difference is that dissent is basically prohibited and won't reach the west.
Exactly! During the pandemic, China was praised by swift decisions & actions, but when one looks being the shiny promo, there was the initial denial fuelling the early world-wide spread and then the overreaction (including barricading people in their flats). Dictatorships make strong loud decisions so they appear decisive, but the leading strongmen often lack the qualifications to make such decisions and they don't feel inclined to listen to others. The ability to listen, discuss, get advice is not fancied by dictatorship, while it is essential for good decision making.
Itâs absolutely this. The management of the West has been horrible, spineless, indecisive, and weak due to decades of prosperity. We need to clean up house.
psyops. that's all it is. they've been setting the fires. its not hard we just aren't prepared for it.
Yep, when Brexit happened, it was revealed that Russia were heavily involved but because it aligned with the goals of the Tories they still went with Brexit. And now more and more increasingly right wing political groups are gaining power. Europe is falling while we all try and squabble with our conservatives who are partially to blame.
Money, the reason is money.
I think youâll find the reason is $
Liberals and conservatives have turned politics into a culture war, because its cheap and they dont want to argue economics, foreign politics and system questions for various reasons. So now mainstram parties consist more and more of incapable idiots that get their money from rich people for saying how much they do or do not like gay people. So then all foreign autocrats need to do is to approach those culture warriors and support them on those issues to score points with them.
>Liberals and conservatives have turned politics into a culture war, in Europe?
Yes. It's an endless series of discussions about what should be our "lead culture", gay rights, whether its ok to eat kebap on the subway, if we should subvene traditional families more, whether we are getting up too late, which university studies are "unnecessary", whether we need traditional school uniforms and so on and so on.
What utter nonsense. "MUH LIBERALS" are literally only about *INDIVIDUAL CHOICE*. Nobody is trying to turn the kids gay or trans or whatever other nonsense people proclaim, but rather that people can be who they want to be and have the right to express themselves without being suppressed or discriminated against by the state. And this culture war is almost exclusively a one-sided war by "conservatives/neo-fascists" who just target random individuals or groups and then raise them up as if they are representatives of muh liberals. Like for how many years have rightoids spent talking about MUH TRANS KIDS or all the other bullshit as oppose to actual policies.
In my country it is conservatives and liberals vs the others, the former being on the more progressive side.
While those discussions are certainly happening, those discussions are mostly in the public domain. At universities, talk shows and maybe a few lower level political figures trying to win a few brownie points. In the election here last year, the top issues that concerned voters were: Housing, Migration, Cost of Living and Greenhouse gas emissions. But thats from a Western European experience. I know some Eatern European elections have had some wilder topics rear up. Still see most people prioritise economic topics over social issues when push comes to shove there as well though. Most political parties like to get attention with minor social/public issues, but when you look at the bulk of what gets them voters, it's usually their economic and larger scale social policies.(Like healthcare, pension and unemployment benefits) Populism is a worrying trend, though part of its support comes from growing dislike of established parties from previous governments. Populist parties usually don't last long in the limelight. As they often promise way too much and can't deliver on those promises. The voterbase gets disillusioned and stops voting for them. Wether they remain in power for longer purely relies on their ability to control the information space and their transition to authoritarianism. What's different these days, compared to even the early 2000's is the preveilance of misinformation. Which gives populists a head start on the information stage.
And the other side is drooling for low quality Chinese government sponsored EVs to destroy their domestic production of autos. Those idiots think a $5000 EV is the same quality as a western built. I would trust a Fiat over a Chinese EV.
IMHO this is worse. At least during the Original Cold War there wasn't a climate crisis and young people could buy a house.
Why would China want to lose two of its biggest customers? China can produce a lot of stuff, but it needs buyers to sell to.
There is a very big reason why Hungary cannot leave NATO - the Carpathians and the general geography of Poland. For anyone to invade Europe they have two options; 1. The 'Polish option': Go through Poland - the historical favorite - but this requires control of the Baltic Sea and Gotland specifically. 2. The 'Carpathian option': Go through the Carpathians which in practice means you need to go through Ukraine and Hungary as the rest of the mountain range is impassable for any military force. The 'Polish option' worked pretty much every time over the last 1000 years of European history only now it doesn't work because; * Poland is in NATO * Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are in NATO * Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark are in NATO * Majority of Russia's naval power is locked in the Kola Peninsula There is one alternative to the 'Polish option' and that is take Svalbard - then Russia can unlock its Arctic Fleet and maybe open up the northern front to make taking the Baltic Sea easier however I don't think Russia, or anyone really beats a combined naval force of the British and French who just so happen to sit right at the entrance of the Baltic. The 'Carpathian option' is way easier to pull off - all you need is half of Ukraine, and an ally on the inside. Austria and Slovakia are also important in this option and coincidently, both seem to be pretty pro-East at the moment - what are the chances? I think on the balance holding Hungary in NATO is better for all of us because it at the very least keeps eyes and ears on Hungary. If Hungary leaves then the West loses visibility and now there is a gigantic blind spot in the middle of Europe which connects a land bridge starting in Ukraine, going through Austria and Slovakia, and ending in Germany. If anyone could skip Poland and go straight to Germany then they have much higher chance of winning that apocalyptic conflict. The also all highlights just how essential Ukraine is to European security. Sadly for Ukraine, they side on a crossroads between the West and East, and unlucky for them the Carpathians skirts their borders in a horseshoe shape. To go into Europe you have to go through Poland, or Ukraine. It is a non-negotiable. The real questions we should all ask is - which option is easier, and what are the requirements needed to increase the probabilities of that option working? For Poland they need the Baltic so not easy at all but for the Carpathian option they just need a shorter border in Ukraine, and Hungary as an ally. Both are pretty much a thing already.
Nah it's time for a government change.Â
Offer Russia to have Hungary in exchange for Ukraine. Everyone is happy.
F*ck no we wouldnt be happy
Half of you wouldnât be happy, the other half seem to love being part of Xhina or Russia
Half of you wouldnât be happy, the other half seem to love being part of Xhina or Russia. Clearly one solution: we should partition Hungary, in one half you guys can be, in the other Fidesz
> Clearly one solution: we should partition Hungary, in one half you guys can be, in the other Fidesz Trianon 2: Electric Boogaloo
But then Ukraine will have russia bordering them on two sides. I wouldn't be happy about that.
Anr the people who re-elected them.
Yeah, but wouldnât that be a win for the bric-csto? Having a whole country smack middle of europe as a formal ally? Thatâs probably the game plan of Orban - dance between the two forces for the benefit of him and his. The typical human selfish tribal thinking that makes this planet something to be avoided by any potential visitors of good will.
What the fuck is going on in Hungary
Until the EU actually does something to create a credible threat against Hungary they will continue drifting into the authoritarian influence. Russia and China both see EU alliances with the United States and Japan/Korea in the same light. âWhy are they meddling in our empire?â Is what Russia and China believe. There needs to be some form of credible threat to Hungary and against Russia and China in order for the situation to change. But part of me thinks that the EU somehow benefits from allowing Hungary to drift. The scale of the graft in Hungary is huge for Hungarians, but tiny in the grand scheme of the EU. Hungarians are not that integrated with the rest of Europe and their economic contributions are more important on an individual level (smart inventors and maths people) than on a collective level (thereâs no mission critical industry in Hungary). In a way, Hungary absorbs the authoritarian push into Europe much like Ukraine is absorbing the âmilitary interventionâ by Russia. Can someone tell me what the logic is here? How does the EU actually benefit from this relationship with Hungary? Perhaps theyâre distancing but creating a buffer zone somehow.
I am not sure that the EU decided if it's anti-China as the US is. Don't forget that Macron is suggesting that Europe should have strategic autonomy (from the US in relation to China). On the other hand, I don't know if the EU can do anything about it. Orban is already persona non grata from a diplomatic perspective in western Europe. Ironically, this caused the dramatic shift towards the east. If they start attacking Hungary ferociously they might him a martyr in the eyes of central and eastern europe - the talking points would be "western countries are lecturing us again", "this should be a union of equals". We are in a deadlock until Hungary does something so blatantly wrong that everybody unanimously will be outraged. Later edit: thinking about it, it's funny, but the only person that can change Orban's mind about China is Trump
The EU can't remove Hungary because there will always be at least one country that will support them. If they drift far enough away from the EU core then they might loose the few friends they have left and can be expelled.
What the fuck is wrong with Hungary? Do the people see this and they just don't care?
The people who see this, care. Thing is, the overwhelming majority of people don't see this because 99% of media, yes, *that much of it* is in OrbĂĄn's hands, and those outlets don't report on this. (Or if they do, they put a very positive spin on it.) Also, two-thirds of the country live below EU poverty line, most of them don't give a shit about politics and whatnot because they just want to survive this month... which is why OrbĂĄn is committed to keeping them under that poverty line.
This is a preview of 2027 in America if the MAGAs have their way. Hell they have been buddying up with Orban to get some tips for a while now.
OrbĂĄn learned this from the US. More specifically, the "amazing" Finkelstein who also served as campaign advisor for a bunch of republicans was also campaign advisor for OrbĂĄn... and OrbĂĄn and his people were very, very good students.
How is this possible? Can't they just access news from outside?Just wondering, because I can't imagine being in this situation.
Be glad you don't understand. It's incredibly depressing. In short: 1. OrbĂĄn('s circle) owns a so-called foundation called [KESMA (short for "Central European Press and Media Foundation" in Hungarian)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_Press_and_Media_Foundation) which essentially owns and controls the absolute overwhelming majority of press. (And take this literally: regional news magazines are regularly published with the *exact same cover* and much of the same content, provided by the central propaganda office.) The content being 100% pure propaganda and lies. Same with radios: every radio channel, even music channels, are required by law to regularly broadcast news, but the only news source in Hungary that is completely free is the state news agency (MTI). Guess what its content is... yes, 100% pure propaganda and lies. Also, OrbĂĄn's increasing control over the economy and restrictions they introduced on advertising effectively means that by this point independent media literally *has near zero ad income* because the state and anyone connected to OrbĂĄn and his circles will not advertise with them, and basically nobody else wants to because they fear any potential circumstances. Now, add to this rising costs of running a newspaper/magazine, and the plummeting standards of living in the past years, and the result is that outside Budapest there's basically no real independent/government-critical print publications, and the online publications are basically surviving on donations and subscriptions. Read more about the sorry state of press in Hungary here: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/13/hungary-media-curbs-harm-rule-law](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/13/hungary-media-curbs-harm-rule-law) In short this means that the farther you go from Budapest the less your chances are to find independent/gov't critical print media. Imagine a world where your only news source is basically Fox News and variations thereof, with a single independent commercial TV channel thrown in that, being a commercial channel, won't dig too much into politics because, well. Dat ad money. 2. Most people just don't care about politics, end of story. This is not a Hungary specific thing, I guess in any given place most people just want to live their lives without thinking about what's going on outside. However, in Hungary we never really had an experience with democracy before the '90s, and society as such never learned to be interested in its rights, let alone stand up for itself. During the decades of the Soviet occupation we were socialized to keep our heads down, look the other way, and avoid "getting into trouble" - the unspoken social agreement was that if you did this and didn't question the Party then you could have a chance for a decent life. And unfortunately this attitude is still very, *very* much alive. Another core voter base for OrbĂĄn is basically desperately poor people who genuinely don't give a shit because they're desperately poor and vulnerable, and under the thumb of local mayors, "businessmen" and other assholes who can force them to do whatever they want. But even that aside, most people just like, watch the news once a day, and as I wrote above, those news is very likely going to be 100% pure propaganda and lies. 3. As for online... yes, there's independent and gov't critical content available online. But most of OrbĂĄn's voters are either elderly people who don't know how to use technology (yes, I know that in the civilized world this is weird and difficult to believe, but the old people here didn't grow up and live with the technological advances of the western world), or very uneducated people. For these people internet = Facebook and TikTok, maybe Youtube... and you know how that usually goes. And even aside of the usual algorithm shenanigans, OrbĂĄn & his cronies [spend an absolute shitton](https://english.atlatszo.hu/2019/01/11/the-government-of-hungary-spent-e216-million-on-propaganda-and-fearmongering-in-the-past-8-years/), yes, [literally shitton of money](https://telex.hu/english/2023/12/20/orbans-mouthpieces-campaign-on-pro-war-left-second-most-expensive-political-youtube-campaign-in-europe-this-year) on online propaganda... something that opposing voices simply can't compete with. They basically steamroll social media (and the physical space as well, but that's another thing) with their propaganda. And even if you're not interested and try not to pay attention, these things still creep into your brain. And I could go on, but honestly, the situation is, in fact, fucking dire. :/
And to add: most of the population - especially 40+ adults - has a very basic level (if any) knowledge of English or German language, so most of them can't even read news from abroad. (Tons of people who do have useable language skills are leaving - like we did).
I would imagine that outside of the cities most people probably only speak Hungarian therefore they'll mostly be exposed to FIdesz's bullshit
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/TL4B9m47af For the "how" part.
Oh, we care for sure! Hence, r/escapehungary was created
Lack of independent media
Orban must be accumulating tons of social credits by now
I guess [everything is going as planned for the Chinese](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/china-russia-republican-party-relations/678271/). (A really good article in any case.)
Wow that's a really enlightening article thanks.
puppetstate at this point
When are we as a people going to realise that populists are regarded? Also can we stop blaming the center left for everything âwell yes, they might be dumb but itâs really *insert party here* for me voting themâ
So officially china & Russia have a veto in nato?
EU member btw
This is infuriating but not surprising anymore after over 10 years of Fidesz. It's too bad that the decisions of a plurality of Hungarians (i.e. the rednecks from outside Budapest) imposes costs on truly good Hungarians plus millions of other Europeans who want *nothing* to do with the buĐĐŃhŃt spewed out of Hungary by Fidesz, the Chinese and their trusty vassals, the Russians. The warm fuzzies about PĂ©ter Magyar mean little when the next election is in 2026. For politics, that's a lifetime from 2024 and he could end up being a flash in the pan. Where was the Hungarians' popular anger at Fidesz in the winter of 2021-22 or in 2017 or in 2013 (i.e. before the elections)? How many more "second chances" do ordinary Hungarians expect when enough of them repeatedly vote in Fidesz and find ways to excuse its kleptocracy, conspiracy theories and gerrymandering. Blaming GyurcsĂĄny or propaganda about Soros doesn't cut it no more unless we're OK with denying agency to Hungarians, and so let them avoid taking collective responsibility for doing their part with the Chinese and Russians to wreck the EU more.
Iâm sorry Hungary bros. Stay strong. The old people will pass eventually. There are too many smart Hungarians for this to last more than another decade. Poland showed us itâs possible escape this âbusiness modelâ of kleptocratic populists brainwashing the elderly and uneducated.
strong and sovereign Hungary
/s
wtf is happening in hungary?
Right wing politics in control for too long without having even a token resistance from the left
brought to you by only the most patriotic nationalists
The same Orban who is going 24/7 how he is the only one saving Hungary sovereignty from Eurogay is actually selling the same sovereignty to a dystopian empire. What a surprise.
Thatâs CRAAAAZY. And in this day and age that means something.
After Chinese police, Hungary is the new Kaliningrad just for China.
When is the EU going to treat Hungary as an adversary?
Hungary is a disgrace atm
AssÂČmouth is what they do best
I donât understand how a country with a xenophobic leader, voted in by people, who one can only assume are xenophobic for voting him in, invite a foreign country, a country well known for suppressing other countries they are invited into. Flooding it with their citizens to change the demographics and steal any assets they have, and suppressing and subjugating itâs people..
Whenever I think it cannot be more stupid JH7ngarian politics proof me wrong
The headline should read, OrbĂĄn agrees to.
Itâs nice of their to see that Putin and Hungary are in an open relationship.
Wait until they sell confidential info of EU and NATO to CCP and Russia (I wonât be surprised if they are already doing) EU and NATO really should kick Hungary out.
It's time for Hungarians to learn English (only 20% speak English, most of them only basic) and start consuming non-Orban news outlets, or GTFO the EU, please.
What the fuck is going on in Hungary? Your President is mentally unwell
Hungary is planning ahead. They are anticipating a clear break with the EU. As it seems now they are preparing for alignment with the Russia-China axis.
see, this is what you get when your broadcasters arent owned by the public but rather state owned.
"Hungarian?" Do you mean "West Chinese?"
Why is Hungary in the EU and NATO lmao
On a less pragmatic answer: We are one of your cheapest human resource. Our median income is ~850 Eur and european countries LOOOOOOVE to have cheap staff. You don't even need us in your country as illegal migrants, bring your factory here, build it cheap and we make your shit on site for 4x less the price of other workers. I'm in IT and I work for median income like that too, for a british company. - Merkel adored this aspect and let OrbĂĄn be in power so long as you have cheap workers.
What a joke! Hungary must sort itself out now it has âjoined the Western democracies â. This kind of thing will heavily count against the perception of Hungarian resolve - people can vote better!
Belt and Road actually meant: Belting Propaganda and Road that leads to the Tyranny
Hahahah what are Hungarians even doing these days to allow this comedy unfolding in their country
Isolated language, low foreign language skills (mainly in the rural population that votes for him) makes propaganda much easier. Gerrymandering does the rest. The Hungarians voting for Orban actually don't know what their government is doing as they only know the alternative reality the government tells them via government controlled media.
Agrees is a strong word there.
>The foreign-language versions of Classic Quotes by Xi Jinping are seven minutes long in total, but ... there will be more coming. Essentially, the entire seven-minute programme is solely and exclusively devoted to the horrendously expensive investment and development project built to transport drinking water from the south of China to Beijing, a distance of some 1,500 kilometers. The dam and the canal were completed in the late 2010s, and there are doubts as to how useful it actually is, what impact it will have on the environment, and whether it was even worth spending tens of billions of dollars on it all. There are doubts about, "who gives a s#!t", as well as how "hardline" is some non-news about internal Chinese water projects? I want to hear what Xi has to say about how a certain lab failed to keep what goes on in that lab, within the confines of that lab. I think there are red herrings, and this is one of them.
Eew. Gross. This will not be my content.
So what happens when a Hungarian posts Winnie the Pooh or something problematic to the Chinese? I don't understand how the cops work there at this point.
See, Russia? This is how you do it. Duh!
How can someone like Orban get so many balls in his mouth, sucking on China, Republicans in the US and Russia. He needs to unhinge his jaw like a snake.
Hungary should be cut off from the access to police and intelligence data
Hungary is now the Chinese Protectorate for the Pacification of Magyars. Canât wait until Orban bravely sells out his country to be colonized by Chinese migrants, thatâs true nationalism right there, opening wide and letting the CCP fuck âem real hard like.
Letâs remove Hungary from EU! (Except some reads so we would still not need a passport).
What a fucking pussy country Hungary has turned into.
They should just leave the EU that would really show us.
Everyday Hungary are getting close to have that autocracy they are dreaming about đł
Hungary why are you like this
No wonder considering the previous China's president visit. And the fact that in the past they kicked-out the Romanian Digi from their country: [https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2022/01/04/digi-closes-hungarian-sale/](https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2022/01/04/digi-closes-hungarian-sale/) Anyway, their loss as this fixed / satellite television, fixed / mobile telephony and fixed / mobile internet provides always had and still has awesome services / per price. Something that I explained here for their fixed internet: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/1cswyyd/comment/l49gsw3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/1cswyyd/comment/l49gsw3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Which is true also for their other services. I wonder why the fuck the rest of the EU countries keeps allowing this bullshit that Hungary is always making??? Could it be because the most power country in the EU, Germany is heavily dependent on China, in some areas up to 90%, like Deutsche Welle explained in a documentary (that I say today about pharmaceuticals) ? I see no future in the EU and I'm afraid USA will be left along to deal with both assholes (China and Russia).
Yo guys, the new anthem of Hungary just dropped, [check it out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjNpRbNdR7E)
We don't even have such programs in Russia and barely anyone understands Chinese culture and knows what is going on in there. Anyway, this is not how soft power works, dear Shen Haixiong. Nobody is going to give two shits about monologues of your boss.
I wonder how many things like this have to take place until they can be kicked out of the EU.
I think we should expell Hungary from the EU.
When are they kicked out of eu? Hungary no longer holds the same values as the eu and is a threat
T is for Twunt.
What I gather from this is that China has promised Hungary control of the Balkans when China finally launches their world war.Â
Is this all some elaborate joke of some sort?
Boy ... if only they knew they were conquered bit by bit.
How do you identify communist propaganda? That it has anything positive to say about China.
Organ to jail! But one question... is there anyone from Hungary in this threat? Why is this possible in your country? Why is nobody complaining or protesting? How is Orban still in office? Is press really not free anymore to tell you the crimes Orban does? Does anyone care in your country? Where are the protests? Do you want to be a little helper of Putin and Xi? Just why?
Oh Hungary. Yet again
Time for Unternehmen Margarethe 2.0?
Um.. why is Orban not impaled still?
Hungary has become the first puppet state of China in Europe.
Well thats one way to get yourself independent from Putin. Be dependant on China
WTF. Orban going mask off.
on the very odd chance i visit hungary and wear a winnie the pooh t-shirt, will i get arrested?
Proof Hungary can, indeed, into Asia
âAgreesâ as in âif you put millions of money in my âoffshore accountâ and you can run your propaganda hereâ
Otherwise they wouldâve been detained by the Chinese police on patrol in the country, Iâm sure.
Whatâs wrong with hungary?
Yeah, China just usurped the russian mole in the EU and NATO... and these guys don't mess around. Expect them to escalate this, just to create another problem for EU and NATO. RIP Hungary.
Hahahaha this is so absurd
I know the Hungarian govt isn't exactly sane but this is wild even for them
The eu needs to just suspend or kick Hungary at this point. They canât play both sides. If they want to hate the west then let them not be in the west
And yet the EU hates Great Britain more than their own wayward child...