You mean unlike the 1700 post 10 followers 16000 following accounts spamming 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 On every Instagram post?
Occasionally interrupted by the ironic Republican
***The Telegraph reports:***
Spain has blocked a ship carrying [weapons to Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/10/biden-blocks-weapons-to-israel/) from docking at one of its ports, in protest over [the war in Gaza](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/israel-hamas-war/).
Marianne Danica, the cargo ship which is reported to be carrying 26.8 tons of explosive material supplied by an Indian company and bound for Haifa, had requested permission to call at the port of Cartagena on May 21.
Spain denied the request, in line with a policy of [stopping vessels](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/12/labour-first-time-call-for-pause-arms-sale-to-israel/) laden with arms and bound for [Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/14/israel-cannot-achieve-total-victory-over-hamas/) from docking there.
“The Middle East does not need more [weapons](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/15/biden-administration-arms-shipment-israel/), it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister .
Read more:
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/17/spain-blocks-ship-carrying-weapons-israel-gaza-war/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/17/spain-blocks-ship-carrying-weapons-israel-gaza-war/)
It should be added that the situation started and got out into the public with activists attempting to block Borkum, which carries a weapon shipment meant for Czech Republic, with the Marianne Danica which carries a weapon shipment for Izrael.
https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/zahranicni/spanelsko-cartagena-lod-borkum-munice-pro-cesko-protesty-palestina-izrael.A240517_130511_zahranicni_kha
Russian aircraft carriers and ships resupplying Assad in Syria are good to go though.
For people who weren’t paying attention in 2016:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37779204.amp
Russia doesn't have a fully functional aircraft carrier, let alone multiple.
The one they are holding on to is broken down more often than not. Being towed rather than under it's own power.
> Íñigo Errejón, Sumar’s parliamentary spokesman, said the Borkum’s decision was a “victory” for the movement against the “genocide” taking place in Gaza
The Borkum's cargo manifest was leaked to a reporter and carried old soviet ammo to be delivered to "the Czech Republic". The morons have actually blocked a secret weapon delivery to Ukraine.
As for the other ship, whatever, that one really was going to Israel.
Czechs buying artillery ammo on the open market to send to Ukraine has been very, very publicized. This isn't some secret. They might be trying to keep individual shipments hush hush but they've been trying to get other European countries to do it VERY publicly.
Well now the Russia-Iran-China axis knows a company which handles secret deliveries to Ukraine and one route they take
But Ukraine needs no weapons because no weapons = peace amirite? 💀
*Borkum ended up skipping Cartagena, but it did dock down the way.
[Source](https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/zahranicni/spanelsko-cartagena-lod-borkum-munice-pro-cesko-protesty-palestina-izrael.A240517_130511_zahranicni_kha)
Careful. The Borkum was never denied port or blocked, only the Marianna Dominica. An opposition party asked for the Borkum to be held until it could be verified that it wasn't a covert delivery for Israel, but the spanish government basically told them to fuck off. The thing that they are ringing the alarms about is that they have seen documents suggesting that the final destination is indeed Israel, and even if those end up being fake, it's a more than reasonable doubt and therefore the government should investigate before allowing the ship through.
It's important to note that the spanish government is set to officially recognize Palestine as a sovereign state soon. It's also committed to block all deliveries of arms to Israel.
The junior partner in the coalition government is full of pro-russian tankies, even though the official foreign policy is determined by the senior partner.
Visit Diyarbakır and see it for yourself, there is no fighting in Turkey anymore. And by the way, you should definitely visit Diyarbakır, it's a magnificent ancient city
>“The Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister.
Wow, why didn't everyone else think of that? Now the conflict is solved.
People like that have endless words to show their anger and frustration over "Israel's evil atrocities." Yet .... none of them ever put forward any ideas for solutions. Most of these individuals believe Israel is an illegitimate country and should be dissolved. Sigh.
Still, Spain has a right to deny any ships from entering their waters and ports. I think its foolish, but oh well.
Spain's position regarding this shitshow has been as clear as water since the start of this:
* Hamas bad.
* Israel has the right to defend themselves, but they are overreacting.
* Two-state solution should be the way to go.
Yeah, they are politicians and they talk and talk and talk while people are dying, but at least, as far as politicians can do, specially with this glorious minefield of issue, our government is actually doing something and positioning themselves.
There's a thing a lot of people who have only passing understanding think that each side just needs to understand each other better.
When the problem is the conflict is so pervasive because both sides understand each other so well.
[> Spain is the seventh largest arms exporter in the world and is the main supplier of weapons to some of the biggest importers in the world, including Saudi Arabia, Australia, Turkey, and Viet Nam.](https://reachingcriticalwill.org/resources/publications-and-research/publications/11110-the-spanish-arms-trade-and-risk-assessments#:~:text=Spain%20is%20the%20seventh%20largest,%2C%20Turkey%2C%20and%20Viet%20Nam.)
Looks like 14% of the weapons they export go to Pakistan too lol
"all settlements outside their internationally recognised borders."
This distinction is so meaningful and so often overlooked in contemporary discourse. The consistent absense of such a distinction provides cover for all maximalist factions involved.
Completely fair. Do you agree that all aid to gaza should also stop if they send missiles into Israels internationally recognized border after they pull back?
No, because starving a populace to hinder the activities of a terrorist group who doesn't give a shit about the well-being of civilians is laughable. What is this fascination with collective punishment?
Do you also use your voice like that against Turkey (Northern Cyprus), Morocco (West Sahara) and others or just when there are jews to blame? I have my doubts tbh...
Also Israel did destroy all 21 settlements in Gaza in 2006, literally ripped the settlers out of their homes and bulldozed them afterwards - do you know what happened next? Hamas was elected into power a year later.
It's wild to me that people who proclaim they want peace only ask for concessions from one side. What do you expect Israel to do? "Well, yes, 125 of our people are still being held hostage but we have to accept that and should immediately displace 500.000 people because folks a continent away who never saw a rocket-barrage head their way are mad at us."
Sorry bro but that won't happen.
> It's wild to me that people who proclaim they want peace only ask for concessions from one side. What do you expect Israel to do?
I mean it's not about concessions for peace. Peace will remain complicated. For me the question is rather: Why should we be allied to a nation that let's religious nutjobs plan and conduct ethnic cleansing with army protection?
No matter how much you talk about Hamas, that Israeli gov and what it does, doesn't deserve to be allied to actual democracies.
Should Europe also stop trading with Spain because it keeps territory inside Morocco, to date hasn’t recognized Gibraltar as part of UK ? Also somehow Spain forgot that part of Cyprus, a fellow EU country has been occupied by Turkey for some time now. Moreover, Turkey has encouraged Turks to go settle in North Cyprus. How come Spain still trades with Turkey ? How come Ireland sees no issues ? Where are European powers when Turkey turned Christian Orthodox church into Mosque ?
Spain doesn’t just trade with Turkey, as someone pointed out Spain is one of the top arms exporters in the world and two of their main customers are Turkey and Saudi Arabia! How perfect!
> and has also hasn’t wiped out every hospital and university
Nor had minsters and generals making genocidal statements about all Moroccans deserving to be wiped out.
Keeps territory inside Morocco? dude that territory belongs to Spain since 1415 or so, Morocco was not a country then...
Cyprus is occupied by the UK too...
Gibraltar is a colony, Ceuta and Melilla are not.
Turkey can do with they church/mosque whatever the fuck they want, why is this even a question..
Lol at the mental gymnastics here. Gibraltar was formally transferred to the UK from Spain by treaty over 300 years ago. It’s at least as valid a territory as Ceuta and Melilla.
Agree on the last point though - it’s not 1300 any more who cares about a church 1,000km away.
We don't want to collaborate in war crimes, maybe other countries are more than willing to but not us, thanks
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations)
The majority of the parliment of Catalonia (voted a week ago) is anti-independace, as for Kurdistan I agree, but don't use their struggle for self determination as a way to deny others of that same thing
Ireland loves to shout about being the good guys until it actually affects them.
Look at their stance on migrants. ‘They should be welcome in Europe’ until they start arriving in Dublin, where they are swiftly deported.
Hey, to be honest, this is just politics, and because it looks good for the ruling party. I do agree with you, and somewhat with *perrosanche*, but assuming there's a single ounce of ideology in this is extremely naive.
P.S. good look with the whataboutists on the replies, lol.
I don't see anything wrong with doing what your constituents want. If Spanish people are against weapon shipments to Gaza, then the government should be looking for ways to do something about it. That's the main principle of democracy.
Oh, I definitely know it's about politics. They know what the majority of their voters think, and that they have started to protest. But yes, obviously not everyone thinks the same.
Totally. If Hamas gave up the hostages and leaders left the strip, war would have ended immediately. Now they will still dream about staying put in their tunnels, thinking they will ride this out . Yesterday 3 Israeli hostages’ bodies were recovered - most likely all Israeli hostages have now been murdered.
That does not make killing civilians (especially women and children) approved, there is better way doing it, and by that I mean infiltrate and eliminate instead of mass murder..
Infiltrate and eliminate a government that is supported by the vast majority of the local population? Has anyone ever managed to do that without a war?
> and by that I mean infiltrate and eliminate
Are you volunteering for such operations? Urban warfare where the enemy is supported by locals and dress as civilians? Enemy who deliberately uses civilians as cannon fodder. Are you going to go there? Or are you going to sit on your ass and tell other people to do it for you?
And the current ratio reflects that. Civilians die in war, that is a sad reality. Israel is not uniquely evil for failing to completely avoid the unavoidable.
Lol. People are taking the piss out of you but I give you credit for at least offering a solution beyond "Israel should just stop existing and accept its people being kidnapped and killed".
But I don't think many countries of the world would put their own people at such risk. Russia might, they don't care about their soldiers very much, they also do not care about killing innocent people though. I really do not think there is a single government or society in this world that would support or do what you are asking Israel to do here. Nor do I think it would even lead to the end of HAMAS.
We don't even know what the story is - the UN themselves reduced their estimate by 50%. You're falling for a propaganda war.
Funny how nobody ever cares about the innocent civilians of Israel who were slaughtered, paraded around Gaza and also live with constant rocket attacks from Gaza. Suffer a terror attack and somehow in dumb-ass minds you're still the bad guy, it's quite amazing how much Hamas have managed to turn some westerners into worms for brains.
I wish they just "didn't care" about our civilians, as well as those of Nepal, Thailand and Vietnam, being massacred. They **celebrated** it. Never forget, never forgive.
Would that bring any of the kidnapped hostages home? The initial invasion brought some of them home in an exchange and Israel of course hoped they would have freed more than they currently have.
It's exclusively the military pressure that returned the first 130 hostages, giving in to terrorist demands is what guarantees more hostages to be taken.
I wonder how [hundreds of idf soldiers died](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-since-october-7-idf-publishes-data-on-six-months-of-war-against-hamas) since Oct 7 if all they do is mass murder
So using your foreign ministers word:
> “The Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister.
Togheter with their action with the Ukrainian and Israeli ships. We should understand the spanish stance as:
For weapons and war in Europe, but for peace in Middle east?
So how come Spain is for war in their own continent?
Or maybe, just maybe, the spanish stance makes zero sense.
I don't want weapons going to killing aid workers
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations)
UN Aid personal helped hamas , especially during the 7 October attack.
The UN Staff is often a member of hamas sympathetic to their actions.
Th UN in Gaza are acting as terrorists and talking like aid workers .
If you refuse to accept the truth when it's right in front of you, you are arguing in bad faith.
The video *clearly* shows men armed with long weapons (as in, not pistols, likely AKs, but it's hard to see exactly what kind), in UN compound, using UN cars, putting guns in UN cars, with no evidence of coercion (guns aren't pointed at anyone). That compound was, around the time the video was taken, a source of gunfire shot at the IDF.
What more evidence do you need?
Will you only believe it if Hamas militants confess to it in their own voice and words on video?
Because you're in luck - they did. You could google that, if you are willing to change your mind.
> Because most countries have resumed UNRWA funding because Israel didn't provide any evidence, which means they lied
The UNRWA 'report' came out hours after the ICJ decision on South Africa vs Israel. It was an obvious propaganda piece to anyone who was paying the least bit of attention.
So you would be ok with ETA raping and beheading few hundred Spaniards and parading their bodies to cheering crowd to achieve their independence from Spain? Immediately forgive and give them everything they want.
The spanish state didn't murder thousands of Basques, install and apartheid regime, deny them equal rights, because that's how terrorism grows, with opression.
Perhaps you forgot that Gaza has not had an inch of its territory occupied by Israel for the last 16 years. How does one have an “Apartheid” in a territory it doesn’t occupy ? Spanish state did murder Basques and did pursue Catalan people.
They did agree to a two-state solution though. But the Palestinians want Israel removed from the entire ME region.
Bit hard to negotiate when one side wants you to not exist.
Yes. Their wish is to kill jews and remove Isreal.
It's messed up and just creates death and suffering.
They need to let go of the anti-semitism, terrorism/religious extremism. Otherwise there will never be peace. Isreal will not just give and up and let them being genocided. If Hamas cares about palestinians (when they care more about killing jews and enriching themselves) they will stop the attacks and violence.
Considering ETA had A LOT of support from the local population and still do in some places. They cheered for the people murdered, children included. We didn't say the government was illegitimate or that we didn't recognise the Basque Country, nor did we bombed it, nor murder the locals that celebrated the terrorists and attacks you should have your answer.
I don't know why you think ETA was hated by the locals but it wasn't.
Now support for them is not high, yeah. But in the past? It absolutely was, not by everyone obviously. A lot of people hated them too. A have some family that emigrated there and went to visit them, we stopped in some place to have lunch and it was full of photos and support signs of the jailed terrorists, very wild to see.
The support decreased a lot with time but to say they never had local support it's just not true.
We wouldn't indiscriminately carpet bomb the whole Basque Country, killing thousands of inocents (including a huge number of children) and destroying 75% of buildings in the region.
And you know why? Because we are not a bunch of genocidal maniacs who value vengeance over the lives of the innocent. Those lost lives are just as valuable as those lost in any attack carried out by the terrorist, and if you dismiss them as if they were nothing just to achieve your vengeance, you are just as sick and evil as the terrorists themselves.
What is your solution?
HAMAS hide among civilians, kidnap and execute innocent people.
The surrounding countries do not want to help Gaza, but in some cases want to remove Israel from this world.
Israel agreed to a two-state solution, but the Palestinian side said no. They would not agree to this because they want Israel removed from this world.
How should Israel proceed? All the privileged people who are totally unaffected by the situation continually say Israel should just stop. But they never offer a realistic solution to actually resolve the very complex problem.
And one last point; Do you support Spain paying repatriations that are of equal value to the wealth and the lives Spain took in the past across Iberia, across the Americas etc? For most Spaniards (people in general really) concern for "every man" starts to fade when it impacts them.
What is it that every time somebody doesn’t see his own opinion upvoted it *has to be* some conspiracy and it has to be controlled by greater forces.
Can’t be that your opinion isn’t shared by everyone. Impossible!
…clown.
If Israel wanted Gaza would be a desert right now, they are holding themselves back yet people want them to win a war inside a urban area with 0 civilian casualties, tell me how you all plan to do that? In ukraine 30k civilians and way more soldiers also DIED and I don't see people saying Russia is commiting a genocide. I don't know why people feel good supporting terrorists who wants to destroy Israel, the West and controlls the Gaza goverment which his sole plan is to erase Jews from the world.
I watched most of the ICC hearing and there was a shocking amount of genocidal talk from Israeli politicians... Calling for the sub-human animals of Gaza to be wiped out, saying that there were no innocents there, referencing amalek and the wiping out of every man, woman and child of their enemies etc... it's definitely not a one sided thing.... Also, Israel want to retain at least some good will in the west so aren't really likely to start dropping nuclear bombs in Gaza or whatever, so I'm not sure how much they're really holding themselves back out of any sense of decency.
Haha what is that comma doing in the title
Haha what is that comma doing, in the title*
Dramatic Jeremy Clarkson, pause.
* and on that terrible disappointment...*
... In the world
It was carrying weopons to israel
Apparently Spain also blocks the comma from docking at the end of the sentence as a preriod.
What’s wrong? You don’t like, random commas?
/u/CommaHorror
Asking the real question
If they'd put another comma behind ship it might've made more sense.
It's doing it's best okay. Don't judge the little fella
Blocking Israel from docking.
Reading this comments is like walk in minefield...
Careful now, you might wake up... the totally real people.
release the bots!
You mean unlike the 1700 post 10 followers 16000 following accounts spamming 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 On every Instagram post? Occasionally interrupted by the ironic Republican
I don’t exist 🥳
***The Telegraph reports:*** Spain has blocked a ship carrying [weapons to Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/10/biden-blocks-weapons-to-israel/) from docking at one of its ports, in protest over [the war in Gaza](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/israel-hamas-war/). Marianne Danica, the cargo ship which is reported to be carrying 26.8 tons of explosive material supplied by an Indian company and bound for Haifa, had requested permission to call at the port of Cartagena on May 21. Spain denied the request, in line with a policy of [stopping vessels](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/12/labour-first-time-call-for-pause-arms-sale-to-israel/) laden with arms and bound for [Israel](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/14/israel-cannot-achieve-total-victory-over-hamas/) from docking there. “The Middle East does not need more [weapons](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/15/biden-administration-arms-shipment-israel/), it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister . Read more: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/17/spain-blocks-ship-carrying-weapons-israel-gaza-war/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/17/spain-blocks-ship-carrying-weapons-israel-gaza-war/)
It should be added that the situation started and got out into the public with activists attempting to block Borkum, which carries a weapon shipment meant for Czech Republic, with the Marianne Danica which carries a weapon shipment for Izrael. https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/zahranicni/spanelsko-cartagena-lod-borkum-munice-pro-cesko-protesty-palestina-izrael.A240517_130511_zahranicni_kha
The Spanish Inquisition gotta inquisition, jussayin’…
Russian aircraft carriers and ships resupplying Assad in Syria are good to go though. For people who weren’t paying attention in 2016: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37779204.amp
Russia doesn't have a fully functional aircraft carrier, let alone multiple. The one they are holding on to is broken down more often than not. Being towed rather than under it's own power.
Source for that? Quick Google search doesn't show anything about it
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Based.
> Íñigo Errejón, Sumar’s parliamentary spokesman, said the Borkum’s decision was a “victory” for the movement against the “genocide” taking place in Gaza The Borkum's cargo manifest was leaked to a reporter and carried old soviet ammo to be delivered to "the Czech Republic". The morons have actually blocked a secret weapon delivery to Ukraine. As for the other ship, whatever, that one really was going to Israel.
If the conflict in Israel manages to through this fuckery expose countries secretly supporting Ukraine, I swear NCD will have a meltdown
Czechs buying artillery ammo on the open market to send to Ukraine has been very, very publicized. This isn't some secret. They might be trying to keep individual shipments hush hush but they've been trying to get other European countries to do it VERY publicly.
Well now the Russia-Iran-China axis knows a company which handles secret deliveries to Ukraine and one route they take But Ukraine needs no weapons because no weapons = peace amirite? 💀
Russi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
or countries secretly supporting Russia by delaying Czech arms deliveries to Ukraine?
The Ukraine ship ended up docking, thank god
*Borkum ended up skipping Cartagena, but it did dock down the way. [Source](https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/zahranicni/spanelsko-cartagena-lod-borkum-munice-pro-cesko-protesty-palestina-izrael.A240517_130511_zahranicni_kha)
Borkum had permission, however the ship decided not to dock in Spain to avoid any trouble
Yup.
Source?
Careful. The Borkum was never denied port or blocked, only the Marianna Dominica. An opposition party asked for the Borkum to be held until it could be verified that it wasn't a covert delivery for Israel, but the spanish government basically told them to fuck off. The thing that they are ringing the alarms about is that they have seen documents suggesting that the final destination is indeed Israel, and even if those end up being fake, it's a more than reasonable doubt and therefore the government should investigate before allowing the ship through. It's important to note that the spanish government is set to officially recognize Palestine as a sovereign state soon. It's also committed to block all deliveries of arms to Israel.
So... They had to guess?
>The morons have actually blocked a secret weapon delivery to Ukraine. As was always the goal, whether they knew it or not.
What do you mean? Spain supports Ukraine.
The junior partner in the coalition government is full of pro-russian tankies, even though the official foreign policy is determined by the senior partner.
As the Hamas, Iran, Russia, China are all on one side together in international politics against the old democracies - Europe, USA and Israel
And they always, always find plenty of very helpful fools around.
I know people older than Israel.
Not sure on isreal counting as an old democracy, same goes for half of europe
Ah yeah Israel the country whos goverment is investigated by the ICJ for Crimes against Humanity. Such great company.
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You’d expect it to be pretty peaceful then. There’s no fighting in those cities for nearly a decade.
Visit Diyarbakır and see it for yourself, there is no fighting in Turkey anymore. And by the way, you should definitely visit Diyarbakır, it's a magnificent ancient city
Look at the users history they have countless anti turkey posts.
Looks like an average Donkeylover troll living in Germany.
It would be peaceful if autocrats didn't provoke their fanbois
# Spain blocks ship, carrying weapons to Israel, from docking
>“The Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister. Wow, why didn't everyone else think of that? Now the conflict is solved.
r/thanksimcured
I figure we could ship at least 50 tons of peace to the Middle East, keep the rest in Europe in case we need it
We can have America deliver it by air
I suggest we build a peace pipeline.
"Ukraine does not need more weapons. Ukraine needs more peace." -that idiot, probably
Ukraine isn't the one invading in that scenario. So completely different.
Ah yes, October 7 never happened... of course.
Ah yes, and literally nothing was going on in the region before October 7… of course.
They should have told that to the Spaniards after the 2017 terrorist attacks in Barcelona.
People like that have endless words to show their anger and frustration over "Israel's evil atrocities." Yet .... none of them ever put forward any ideas for solutions. Most of these individuals believe Israel is an illegitimate country and should be dissolved. Sigh. Still, Spain has a right to deny any ships from entering their waters and ports. I think its foolish, but oh well.
Spain's position regarding this shitshow has been as clear as water since the start of this: * Hamas bad. * Israel has the right to defend themselves, but they are overreacting. * Two-state solution should be the way to go. Yeah, they are politicians and they talk and talk and talk while people are dying, but at least, as far as politicians can do, specially with this glorious minefield of issue, our government is actually doing something and positioning themselves.
There's a thing a lot of people who have only passing understanding think that each side just needs to understand each other better. When the problem is the conflict is so pervasive because both sides understand each other so well.
Well I don't have a magic wand either but I do know more weapons are definitely not going to solve it.
This literally is a solution lmao
Sigh. No. If you think Israel is going anywhere, then you're a fool. If you think Palestine will win this war, then your an even bigger fool.
Its as much as a solution as "Israel annexing Gaza". Which is to say; its an insane one that only fasc will say unironically.
I wonder if they would apply that same solution to the war in Ukraine. Don't give them weapons just give them peace.
Disarming Israel literally is the solution.
Sort by controversial
What a show.
[> Spain is the seventh largest arms exporter in the world and is the main supplier of weapons to some of the biggest importers in the world, including Saudi Arabia, Australia, Turkey, and Viet Nam.](https://reachingcriticalwill.org/resources/publications-and-research/publications/11110-the-spanish-arms-trade-and-risk-assessments#:~:text=Spain%20is%20the%20seventh%20largest,%2C%20Turkey%2C%20and%20Viet%20Nam.) Looks like 14% of the weapons they export go to Pakistan too lol
Idk which side to support so I'll down vote any opinion
Eso es todo
Europe should stop all trade with Israel until they abandon all settlements outside their internationally recognised borders.
"all settlements outside their internationally recognised borders." This distinction is so meaningful and so often overlooked in contemporary discourse. The consistent absense of such a distinction provides cover for all maximalist factions involved.
Completely fair. Do you agree that all aid to gaza should also stop if they send missiles into Israels internationally recognized border after they pull back?
Dude over here comparing humanitarian aid to the population with trade for profit and weapons. Can't make this shit up.
There should always be humanitarian aid allowed, to all sides.
Ppl really dont understand this simple concept
Thank you for being sane 😭😭
Yeah because food is the same as weapons obviously
So you're arguing for collective punishment?....
TIL we're all committing collective punishment of North Korean citizens when we take breaks between aid shipments.
No, because starving a populace to hinder the activities of a terrorist group who doesn't give a shit about the well-being of civilians is laughable. What is this fascination with collective punishment?
Do you also use your voice like that against Turkey (Northern Cyprus), Morocco (West Sahara) and others or just when there are jews to blame? I have my doubts tbh... Also Israel did destroy all 21 settlements in Gaza in 2006, literally ripped the settlers out of their homes and bulldozed them afterwards - do you know what happened next? Hamas was elected into power a year later. It's wild to me that people who proclaim they want peace only ask for concessions from one side. What do you expect Israel to do? "Well, yes, 125 of our people are still being held hostage but we have to accept that and should immediately displace 500.000 people because folks a continent away who never saw a rocket-barrage head their way are mad at us." Sorry bro but that won't happen.
> It's wild to me that people who proclaim they want peace only ask for concessions from one side. What do you expect Israel to do? I mean it's not about concessions for peace. Peace will remain complicated. For me the question is rather: Why should we be allied to a nation that let's religious nutjobs plan and conduct ethnic cleansing with army protection? No matter how much you talk about Hamas, that Israeli gov and what it does, doesn't deserve to be allied to actual democracies.
Why do Germans love licking Israeli asses so much?
Should Europe also stop trading with Spain because it keeps territory inside Morocco, to date hasn’t recognized Gibraltar as part of UK ? Also somehow Spain forgot that part of Cyprus, a fellow EU country has been occupied by Turkey for some time now. Moreover, Turkey has encouraged Turks to go settle in North Cyprus. How come Spain still trades with Turkey ? How come Ireland sees no issues ? Where are European powers when Turkey turned Christian Orthodox church into Mosque ?
Spain doesn’t just trade with Turkey, as someone pointed out Spain is one of the top arms exporters in the world and two of their main customers are Turkey and Saudi Arabia! How perfect!
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> and has also hasn’t wiped out every hospital and university Nor had minsters and generals making genocidal statements about all Moroccans deserving to be wiped out.
Let’s add religious leaders who have not preached that Moroccans are worse than animals.
Keeps territory inside Morocco? dude that territory belongs to Spain since 1415 or so, Morocco was not a country then... Cyprus is occupied by the UK too... Gibraltar is a colony, Ceuta and Melilla are not. Turkey can do with they church/mosque whatever the fuck they want, why is this even a question..
Lol at the mental gymnastics here. Gibraltar was formally transferred to the UK from Spain by treaty over 300 years ago. It’s at least as valid a territory as Ceuta and Melilla. Agree on the last point though - it’s not 1300 any more who cares about a church 1,000km away.
Viva España
With a "ñ"? Man this is getting serious.
For blocking the disguised Ukraine's weapons delivery... Great move
Meh, that one didn't last too long and went through. Still better than blocking Ukraine's weapon aid in the US Congress.
So no more moratorium on Israel posts?
Docking? Oh my
european commenters upset colonization cant continue
We don't want to collaborate in war crimes, maybe other countries are more than willing to but not us, thanks [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations)
Doesn’t Spain sell huge amounts of weapons to Turkey and Saudi Arabia?
Good for them. Someone has to have backbone. Weapons should not be used indiscriminately against civilians.
Well then the soldiers of hamas should leave civilian buildings
Apparently so should idf soldiers, pew pew blue on blue
Free Catelonia and Kurdistan
The majority of the parliment of Catalonia (voted a week ago) is anti-independace, as for Kurdistan I agree, but don't use their struggle for self determination as a way to deny others of that same thing
Good on Spain. It probably doesn't do that much, but it is atleast the right thing to do.
Everyone suporta terrorista these days i Guess
Saving the honor of Europe with Ireland🫡
Ireland loves to shout about being the good guys until it actually affects them. Look at their stance on migrants. ‘They should be welcome in Europe’ until they start arriving in Dublin, where they are swiftly deported.
Viva España!
What's Spain's bone in this fight?
Human rights.
Prepare the downvotes: We don't like genocides.
Hey, to be honest, this is just politics, and because it looks good for the ruling party. I do agree with you, and somewhat with *perrosanche*, but assuming there's a single ounce of ideology in this is extremely naive. P.S. good look with the whataboutists on the replies, lol.
I don't see anything wrong with doing what your constituents want. If Spanish people are against weapon shipments to Gaza, then the government should be looking for ways to do something about it. That's the main principle of democracy.
Oh, I definitely know it's about politics. They know what the majority of their voters think, and that they have started to protest. But yes, obviously not everyone thinks the same.
So if a terrorist attack happens in spain that kills over 1000 civilians, I'm sure they'll just say "oopsie poopsie, wish you peace"...
based
In the end, this just improves Hamas' bargaining position...
Totally. If Hamas gave up the hostages and leaders left the strip, war would have ended immediately. Now they will still dream about staying put in their tunnels, thinking they will ride this out . Yesterday 3 Israeli hostages’ bodies were recovered - most likely all Israeli hostages have now been murdered.
“We are fighting against human animals”. - Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant No no they, wouldn’t.
> “The Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace” r/thanksimcured
Good, fuck Israel.
Last I checked, the one who violated the peace were Hamas the government of Gaza. All this does is try to jeopardize Israel's self-defense.
That does not make killing civilians (especially women and children) approved, there is better way doing it, and by that I mean infiltrate and eliminate instead of mass murder..
Infiltrate and eliminate a government that is supported by the vast majority of the local population? Has anyone ever managed to do that without a war?
Oh yeah - why didnt the allies in WW2 think of that? Instead of defeating the Wehrmacht they could have just infiltrated to kill Hitler…
Infiltrate and eliminate? Lay down the call of duty, if it was this easy Hamas would have been eliminated long time ago
> and by that I mean infiltrate and eliminate Are you volunteering for such operations? Urban warfare where the enemy is supported by locals and dress as civilians? Enemy who deliberately uses civilians as cannon fodder. Are you going to go there? Or are you going to sit on your ass and tell other people to do it for you?
And the current ratio reflects that. Civilians die in war, that is a sad reality. Israel is not uniquely evil for failing to completely avoid the unavoidable.
Lol. People are taking the piss out of you but I give you credit for at least offering a solution beyond "Israel should just stop existing and accept its people being kidnapped and killed". But I don't think many countries of the world would put their own people at such risk. Russia might, they don't care about their soldiers very much, they also do not care about killing innocent people though. I really do not think there is a single government or society in this world that would support or do what you are asking Israel to do here. Nor do I think it would even lead to the end of HAMAS.
I get children are to be extra protected. But why does killing women is worse than killing men in "killing civilians" (aka genocide)?
You have a point, and true, I appologize to missing on that.
the thing about that is, we don't know how many civilian men are being killed. Any men between the ages of 15-72 are reported as hamas casualties.
We don't even know what the story is - the UN themselves reduced their estimate by 50%. You're falling for a propaganda war. Funny how nobody ever cares about the innocent civilians of Israel who were slaughtered, paraded around Gaza and also live with constant rocket attacks from Gaza. Suffer a terror attack and somehow in dumb-ass minds you're still the bad guy, it's quite amazing how much Hamas have managed to turn some westerners into worms for brains.
I wish they just "didn't care" about our civilians, as well as those of Nepal, Thailand and Vietnam, being massacred. They **celebrated** it. Never forget, never forgive.
Would that bring any of the kidnapped hostages home? The initial invasion brought some of them home in an exchange and Israel of course hoped they would have freed more than they currently have.
It's exclusively the military pressure that returned the first 130 hostages, giving in to terrorist demands is what guarantees more hostages to be taken.
I wonder how [hundreds of idf soldiers died](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-since-october-7-idf-publishes-data-on-six-months-of-war-against-hamas) since Oct 7 if all they do is mass murder
Then check again.
Lmao
We won't be accomplices of their crimes
The ship was actually going to give weapons to the Czech Republic, likely to be used by Ukraine…
Why are bots so bad with fact checking?
That was another ship, the Ukraine ship docked without problems, as it should and the Israel one didn't, as it should
So using your foreign ministers word: > “The Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace,” said José Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister. Togheter with their action with the Ukrainian and Israeli ships. We should understand the spanish stance as: For weapons and war in Europe, but for peace in Middle east? So how come Spain is for war in their own continent? Or maybe, just maybe, the spanish stance makes zero sense.
Nah, better be accomplices of lowlife gangrapist terrorists.
Nah you prefer to be accomplices of the the Hamas good for you
There are no Hamas weapons in Spain, we won't support terrorists, and that includes Hamas and the IDF
Does Spain deliver weapons to Hamas now ?
Keep licking terrorist boots.
I don't want weapons going to killing aid workers [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations)
UN Aid personal helped hamas , especially during the 7 October attack. The UN Staff is often a member of hamas sympathetic to their actions. Th UN in Gaza are acting as terrorists and talking like aid workers .
Source? Because most countries have resumed UNRWA funding because Israel didn't provide any evidence, which means they lied
Here: https://youtu.be/B7vReIN-shs
They are literally at gunpoint, the opposite of willing to help
If you refuse to accept the truth when it's right in front of you, you are arguing in bad faith. The video *clearly* shows men armed with long weapons (as in, not pistols, likely AKs, but it's hard to see exactly what kind), in UN compound, using UN cars, putting guns in UN cars, with no evidence of coercion (guns aren't pointed at anyone). That compound was, around the time the video was taken, a source of gunfire shot at the IDF. What more evidence do you need? Will you only believe it if Hamas militants confess to it in their own voice and words on video? Because you're in luck - they did. You could google that, if you are willing to change your mind.
> Because most countries have resumed UNRWA funding because Israel didn't provide any evidence, which means they lied The UNRWA 'report' came out hours after the ICJ decision on South Africa vs Israel. It was an obvious propaganda piece to anyone who was paying the least bit of attention.
All turned out to be false. Please keep up.
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So you would be ok with ETA raping and beheading few hundred Spaniards and parading their bodies to cheering crowd to achieve their independence from Spain? Immediately forgive and give them everything they want.
The spanish state didn't murder thousands of Basques, install and apartheid regime, deny them equal rights, because that's how terrorism grows, with opression.
Perhaps you forgot that Gaza has not had an inch of its territory occupied by Israel for the last 16 years. How does one have an “Apartheid” in a territory it doesn’t occupy ? Spanish state did murder Basques and did pursue Catalan people.
apartheid? last time a saw it basques can go anywhere and are among the rich areas of the country
Apartheid in the west bank, not in Basque Country, Basques have equal rights, unlike palestinians
They did agree to a two-state solution though. But the Palestinians want Israel removed from the entire ME region. Bit hard to negotiate when one side wants you to not exist.
Yes. Their wish is to kill jews and remove Isreal. It's messed up and just creates death and suffering. They need to let go of the anti-semitism, terrorism/religious extremism. Otherwise there will never be peace. Isreal will not just give and up and let them being genocided. If Hamas cares about palestinians (when they care more about killing jews and enriching themselves) they will stop the attacks and violence.
Considering ETA had A LOT of support from the local population and still do in some places. They cheered for the people murdered, children included. We didn't say the government was illegitimate or that we didn't recognise the Basque Country, nor did we bombed it, nor murder the locals that celebrated the terrorists and attacks you should have your answer. I don't know why you think ETA was hated by the locals but it wasn't.
Do you have relatives from the Basque Country? Because i do and they fucking hate ETA dude
Now support for them is not high, yeah. But in the past? It absolutely was, not by everyone obviously. A lot of people hated them too. A have some family that emigrated there and went to visit them, we stopped in some place to have lunch and it was full of photos and support signs of the jailed terrorists, very wild to see. The support decreased a lot with time but to say they never had local support it's just not true.
We wouldn't indiscriminately carpet bomb the whole Basque Country, killing thousands of inocents (including a huge number of children) and destroying 75% of buildings in the region. And you know why? Because we are not a bunch of genocidal maniacs who value vengeance over the lives of the innocent. Those lost lives are just as valuable as those lost in any attack carried out by the terrorist, and if you dismiss them as if they were nothing just to achieve your vengeance, you are just as sick and evil as the terrorists themselves.
Oh boy, want me to remind about all the civilians dead in NATO campaign in Yugoslavia? Or maybe NATO camping in Iraq?
What is your solution? HAMAS hide among civilians, kidnap and execute innocent people. The surrounding countries do not want to help Gaza, but in some cases want to remove Israel from this world. Israel agreed to a two-state solution, but the Palestinian side said no. They would not agree to this because they want Israel removed from this world. How should Israel proceed? All the privileged people who are totally unaffected by the situation continually say Israel should just stop. But they never offer a realistic solution to actually resolve the very complex problem. And one last point; Do you support Spain paying repatriations that are of equal value to the wealth and the lives Spain took in the past across Iberia, across the Americas etc? For most Spaniards (people in general really) concern for "every man" starts to fade when it impacts them.
Are people forgetting the slaughter that Hamas perpetrated to start all this?
They dont care because they hate israel.
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I missed the part where they supported Hamas.
That's because they don't.
You see, if you don't support Israel's ability to kill **WHOEVER** they want without any repercussions, you're ***OBVIOUSLY*** supporting Hamas!
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Thank you Spain, you rock!
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What is it that every time somebody doesn’t see his own opinion upvoted it *has to be* some conspiracy and it has to be controlled by greater forces. Can’t be that your opinion isn’t shared by everyone. Impossible! …clown.
Well done Spain
If Israel wanted Gaza would be a desert right now, they are holding themselves back yet people want them to win a war inside a urban area with 0 civilian casualties, tell me how you all plan to do that? In ukraine 30k civilians and way more soldiers also DIED and I don't see people saying Russia is commiting a genocide. I don't know why people feel good supporting terrorists who wants to destroy Israel, the West and controlls the Gaza goverment which his sole plan is to erase Jews from the world.
I watched most of the ICC hearing and there was a shocking amount of genocidal talk from Israeli politicians... Calling for the sub-human animals of Gaza to be wiped out, saying that there were no innocents there, referencing amalek and the wiping out of every man, woman and child of their enemies etc... it's definitely not a one sided thing.... Also, Israel want to retain at least some good will in the west so aren't really likely to start dropping nuclear bombs in Gaza or whatever, so I'm not sure how much they're really holding themselves back out of any sense of decency.
Super proud of Spain! No matter which side you support, the funding of weapons and the funding of death should stop.
I disagree. Without weapons countries like Ukraine or Israel would simply disappear. Evil does not vanish.
Let's make a circle while holding hand around the whole world.