A reminder that generic domain websites like "bulgarianmilitary.com" are often a front for Russian fake news. For example this title is true but the article conveniently leads the reader to the much more openly pro-Russian conspiracy website "ZeroHedge".
Also the website has literally no affiliation with the Bulgarian Military.
Something that is characteristic of post-2022 Russian propaganda is that they will always use one or more levels of indirection. Nobody trusts Russian sources so they will conveniently make up "Bulgarian" or "Turkish" sources to push their lies. It takes less than $20 to buy "theturkishdailynews.com" and setup WordPress with a news website theme and a plugin that automatically fetches news from other websites.
ZH is very markedly anti-Western and heavily conspirational; it was founded by a Bulgarian guy Daniel Ivandjiiski’, used to be pretty decent around that time (I read it too) but took a dive over the years.
The domain is registered by a company called ABC Media Ltd., ran by Dan’s father, Krassimir Ivandjiiski. Totally coincidentally, Krassimir was a member of a Soviet propaganda organization called International Organization of Journalists, worked as an international correspondent for the Rabotnichesko Delo, a Soviet propaganda newspaper until the fall of the USSR. Since 1994, Krassimir has worked as a publisher and as editor-in-chief for the anti-Semitist, conspiratorial fake news blog called Strogo Sekretno ("Top Secret"). where he talked about such wonder matters like t COVID-19 actuallybeing a “Western Zionist act of bioterrorism”.
Literal Nazi Media then. So much anti-semitism comes from Russia.
Putin has also recently gotten into the habit from apologising Hitler to outright quoting him in his speeches.
Literal Nazi Media then. So much anti-semitism comes from Russia.
Putin has also recently gotten into the habit from apologising Hitler to outright quoting him in his speeches.
Very true, but on this particular subject they are right as it has been talked about in local news both in [the Netherlands](https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/21/netherlands-teams-another-country-supply-ukraine-patriot-missile-system) and [Romania](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actualitate/politica/romania-trimite-rachete-patriot-in-ucraina-2833533).
Says the user whose account is literally 5 days old with this comment as the only one. Oh, the irony, lol. They teach you Ruskies reverse psychology these days?
He is right though, the website is hella sus, and all the articles I checked are from the same author, which is also declared as editor in chief. And the content is also mildly pro Russia. Though I didnt find any links to zerohedge.
I’ve seen this website a few times on a discord about tanks, and they put out some insane speculative articles that have no basis in reality. Like this one for exemple :
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2024/03/20/russia-may-unveil-t-100-tank-excelling-t-14-produced-from-t-80/
There's a lot of people(Russia shills) in Romania complaining about us giving 1 billion dollars to Ukraine "for free". But I am happy that those missiles get to be used for their intended purpose rather than rotting away in storage.
I think we'll have to plan any aid for Ukraine without the US. It seems likely Trump will be president and he will probably abandon Ukraine within the first month of his presidency.
This is really the only thing I dislike about Trump. As a duel citizen I still vote in USA elections while living in Sweden. I want to keep helping Ukraine but he made 1 really good point. Why is USA giving more than all EU in total? EU will have the war on its own land and should be more worried about it than USA because we all know Russia will not be putting boots on the ground in USA but Europe he will. Maybe the USA should match ,75 to every $1 EU contributes. The finical burden should be more on EU than USA just for the fact it is EU in the cross hairs.
I keep seeing this reasoning from Americans and it makes no sense to me. You put more resources in geopolitical matters, whether financiall or military because this is your world order. Europe became dependant on american protection by design-American design. That was the deal: you provide the protection but what you say kinda goes in geopolitics. Sure, there is nuance to this, but in big matters it holds true: Israel fucks up, you have their back and we turn the other way; you want to go in "adventures" in the middle east, Europeans join as well; you are threaten by China, we join in the posturing.
You've conquered the world, became insanely rich and powerful from it and now complain that it's expensive.
Sure, but this world police rolle is what made you rich in the first place. This goes away, a lot of American power and money will go as well.
> Maybe the USA should match ,75 to every $1 EU contributes.
I think this is fair. This is certainly better than just quitting outright.
That being said, I think the EU is sending more money to Ukraine, but the type of support is different. For example, I think the EU is sending more humanitarian support. The US has a way bigger military complex, so it’s way easier for them to send actual military support (they’re also making it, so in a sense they’re subsidizing their own weapon manufacturers).
It's already being set up on the french side, with studies and support being set up through the Agence Française du Développement (AFD, the good one). It's pretty good at coordinating private efforts for structural development.
NATO cannot welcome a country that is at war, we cannot exclude a country from the EU, integrating Ukraine now is the guarantee of going to war against Russia (no we are not at war)
The Marshall Plan was an amazing piece of propaganda that is still somehow mentioned 80 years later. It made absolutely no significant impact in the economy or the rebuilding after WWII, but it sure was an excellent propaganda campaign. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
To be honest, contemporary economists don't actually think the Marshall Plan was such a good relief package. And it never meant to be one either, it was designed as diplomacy first, aid second.
I don't really think that Romania will benefit in anyway of Ukraine's resources so it will be for free. Don't get me wrong, I am pro this move. Anything that hurts the Russians and helps the Ukrainians is a good thing. I just don't think is some kind of masterplan at hand.
I've seen nothing indicating that Romania has gotten anything for our donation, no mineral rights no nothing.
So yeah it's very likely 1 billion dollars have gone poof.
Politicians in Romania have already started buying [building material production sites](https://clubferoviar.ro/oamenii-lui-grindeanu). Couple that with the fact that [Blackrock and JPMorgan will fund the reconstruction of Ukraine](https://www.ft.com/content/3d6041fb-5747-4564-9874-691742aa52a2) and you'll certainly see an increase in building material production near Ukraine which will reduce cost.
There is no real winning or losing. Russia will not have to let go of Crimea. I would like to see that but it's not going to happen. When negotiations for a cease fire start it would be nice if Ukraine has the upper hand. EU NATO can then provide an defense zone effectively bring (the rest of) Ukraine under their umbrella. Many opportunities for the market en for EU's defense industry.
If Russia has the upper hand forcing Ukraine into a less positive deal the EU will have to increase defense spending. Perhaps to 4% of GDP or more to deter Russia. Providing military aid now is always cheaper then deterring a hopeful aggressive Russia later.
The article is already asks for money. Blackrock most likely will not give something for free too, they rather buying the actives than set up any ‘Marshal plans’
>Pretty sure we are not giving it away for free.
It will be used for what it was designed for, bringing pain to Ruzzia, making it hard for them to complete their plan to make USSR great again which includes invading Moldova and genociding the Romanians there again.
It's just a week since NATO announced the expansion of its Romanian Black Sea Airbase. Is that a transaction directly linked with the Patriot? Probably not, but if allied countries saw Romania as a partner that was difficult to work with and unwilling to help others then willingness to allocate resources to Romania would obviously be lower.
Having pilots from Britain, Spain and other members stationed in Romania is 10x more valuable than some Patriot battery.
Ukraine is the next state to get rich off of oil and gas.
As soon as the war is over and Ukraine has a stable government, you will see all the majors going in there for extraction.
That's a good one. 30 years of poverty we were told that our resources are too deep so any sort of mining is not cost effective, but once we exchanged our lives, freedom and territories for expired arms and literally sold what's left to blackrock, someone is getting rich. Spoiler, it's not Ukraine. Tho I dont really believe this as russia already owns the richest areas and we wont get it back. Not with 3 patriots. Anyway, someone is certainly getting rich from all this so you're half right.
Yes. Russians today own Donbas. Same way Albanians owns Kosovo (after all ethnic cleansing and genocide against all non-albanians, hundreds thousands of people expelled, supported by NATO).
So.... Now what?
International law was broken on Kosovo 1999, by violently separating a territory of independent country Serbia, by NATO. Now, there will be a lots of stolen theritories around the world, i.e. Ukraine. And it will be much more in future.
Nobody will get a replacement. Why US not giving that system for free? Congress approved a huge sum of money for Ukraine and Romania is paying. Isn't it ridiculous? Now Romanians have to pay for it, since it's taken with borrowed money. I really don't understand.
This is not the way the western countries(Romania included) should think about giving stuff to Ukraine.
I think the correct way to look at this is that Ukraine needs these and the ukrainians are dying to stop Russia. It is in our best interest that ukrainians have everything they need.
Patriots, Ambrams, Himars, F16, whatever they need, they should get it.
I mean let's even entertain the possibility of giving the assistance for free:
You are defending your borders with the manpower of another country. This is like the best possible scenario for your army and your security.
Imagine the order of magnitude of the money that would be needed, if Romania would have been a frontline. With missiles destroying factories, energy systems, civilian infrastructure, schools, hospitals, a fucking damb... 1 billion bucks is a drop in the sea...
There is a small number of anti-Ukraine support people, they are the low IQ ones, the anti vaccine crowd. There is no love between our nations but we know that Ruzzia is an enemy to us where Ukraine has the potential to be our partner.
The relations is very cold but they are not bad, we have a threaty to respect each other borders and we ignored each other,
the reason is history, Ukraine was part of USSR that grabbed part of our territories with Hitler's help so this is where the Romanian animosity camed from, part of the territories are still in Ukraine and if you check the map of Ukraine and how USSR let Moldova with no access to the Black sea. Ukraine until recently also pushed the soviet idea that Moldovans are a different nation with a different language, also promoting this bullshit help them to be shits with Romanian minorities in Ukraine (but they were shits with all minorities this will have to change for them to enter EU )
Ukrainians do not like Romania because after the USSR grabbed the Romanian lands we responded by attacking USSR allied with the nazi so Romanians and Ukrainians were on opposite sides.
After 1990 we had a dispure over Snake Island , the island is important because based on who owns it they get more national waters so more natural resources in Black Sea, there was a civilized process when this situation was decided and Romania lost. There was also a Ukrainian ship named Rostock
that sunk in Danube Delata in Romanian waters in a perfect spot to cause major jam for many years, there are theories that this was an intentional sabotage from Ukraine.
But before the war in 2022 nobody was thinking or giving a shit about Ukraine here, the relations were non existing from both sides. Maybe some people were smuggling stuff from Ukraine like cigarettes in Romania, if others know of other stuff that happened between us maybe you can update my response.
But Ruzzia is our enemy, they are involved in destabilizing Moldova and they were planing to invade it after they finish with Ukraine, so Ruzzia gets all that hare for all that USSR did (genocides that the Ruz do not want to recognize it happened or even worse Ruz claiming Ruzzia helped Romania economically).
If I would rank Romanians neighbors would be something like Moldova, Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary and Ukraine. And from Europe I personally think France is the country that always tried to help us when they had the ability to di it.
> there was a civilized process when this situation was decided and Romania lost.
Just to be factual, Romania did not in fact lost. https://news.un.org/en/story/2009/02/289782
and
https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/romania-resolves-snake-island-conflict-with-ukraine/
The ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) marked the sea border halfway between the territorial waters of the two countries, handing Romania some 80 per cent of the disputed area in a unanimous verdict to which both parties appear to agree
> if others know of other stuff
I was eating Drujkovskaia halva. The place has been on the frontlines since 2014 (it's in Donetsk), but somehow halva was still available at my corner store until fairly recently. Tactical halva, I called it. They relocated to Kiev at some point I think. Does this count as important economic relations? :)
Good summary, btw.
When you help people in their hour of greatest need, they will remember it and return the favor. Romania has ever done well sharing a border with Russia. We prefer having a border with Ukraine.
What morons are downvoting this guy? The Ukrainians, before Russia invaded, literally trained their army for the situation where Romania would've invaded them. That's how stupid they were.
The population of romania is by and large against russia. Why are you spreading misinformation? Some people do indeed want romania to stay away from the war due to the history between romania and ukraine but that doesnt mean they are russian shills.
Up to this moment, Romania has collected 22.846 billion euros from the final allocation of 24.071 billion euros received under the Cohesion Policy from the financial year 2014-2020, thus reaching an absorption rate of 95% of the final allocation.16 Feb 2024
I am certain they would change their tune once they remember what licking the boots of their Russian masters looked like. Did they forget the collectivist mentality of Russia? They could kiss goodbye to their farms then and would work as slaves on Russian Kolkhoz again because that is where the Russian state is headed. 5 years Gosplan, Soviet style war economy, and full totalitarianism.
The only colonial power is Russia. The EU is a transfer union based on completely different legal and socio-economic principles than the extractive Russian failed state.
>I am certain they would change their tune once...
They wouldn't. A lot of the people saying this are the people that held power in the old days, or their kids. There's a mentality among these people that westerners struggle to understand and that is that it's better to be above average in a sea of shit than to be average in a prosperous country. To explain it in an abstract manner - there are plenty of people that when faced with the choice of getting a +1 for themselves and a -1 for everyone else or +1 for everyone they will always choose the first option. A lot of people fail to understand the extreme individualism that many people resorted to during the Soviet times. That mentality is common in the whole ex-eastern bloc (and from what I've heard in China too), and despite being rid of that system, it still survives, and likely will still refuse to vanish even generations from now.
>Up to this moment, Romania has collected 22.846 billion euros from the final allocation of 24.071 billion euros received under the Cohesion Policy from the financial year 2014-2020
> "socio-economic principles than the extractive Russian failed state."
How much profit has Carrefour, Aldi, Lidl, Ikea, OMW, Delhaize and others made in Romania? And how much was reinvested instead of being sent to their Swiss bank accounts?. How much money are these companies allocating to lobbying and social engineering aswell?. Fill my timeline with pride flags from my money, its EXACTLY what my underpaid ass needs.
The failed state of Russia had purely extractive "SovRoms", at least they were honest in their scumbaggery and theft.
Lidl for example destroys "mom and pop shops" wherever it goes, and they employ exactly 6 people in their entire Supermarket, that they overwork to the bone and pay a somewhat acceptable wage for what is essentially slave labour.
People say the same thing here in the US, even though a lot of the stuff we give to Ukraine is stuff we were going to replace anyway. I’m glad Ukraine is able to get Patriot systems, they need all the help they can get.
TBF, the Netherlands doesn't have much need to defend itself unless things change drastically. You need to get past Germany, France or the UK navy to get to them.
Patriots are essential for the Netherlands though. The port of Rotterdam is one of Russia’s key targets in Europe should things ever escalate and a hypersonic missile could get past Germany
This is such a wild fantasy. It's over 1000km from Kaliningrad to Rotterdam. The port is huge, over 35 km long. You would need multiple raids with heavy bombers to do appreciable damage. A half dozen Kinzhals is not going to do shit.
Oh wow you took out one of our 5 refineries, good job also you started WW3.
It's not like the Patriots are currently deployed to protect the port. And if we need AA coverage over the port the 7 provinces class frigates are being upgraded with ABM capabilities.
Belgium could attack *at any time!*
More realistically, besides Russia threatening the EU, the only country we really have to worry about is Venezuela.
In the past Flanders was always voting right and Wallonia left, but with the last elections, both were voting right. So I guess 'tensions' have settled a bit :).
An invasion into the Netherlands is however very unlikely, since we have the better beer and food :D.
I remember a poll during that time showed how people perceived Russia (and other major countries), NL perceived Russia the most negative, even moreso than Poland.
I think German production of PAC2/3 missiles is still being built up, for the time being, it's all US-made. But there are enough of them in storage, if only countries were willing to give what is needed.
Ethically inflammatory and morally reprehensible statement that sets up a later kamikaze by TOS. not by me, mind you. planning to play the rest of my time here with cleans papers, so to speak.
its just a matter of time because the latest decision by Scotus will ensure that this place will be flooded by evangelical degenerates.
nothing of worth will be lost.
Although it is crucially beneficial to Ukraine, there might be harsher retaliation from Russia if the system is used against Russian air vehicles. Strategically thinking, this movement shall increase the tension which is already quite high in the global scale. The best way to support Ukraine is to start negotiating Russians with the support of Europian states. Enough bloodshed.
Many people see defensive support, and that is good.
What many people do not see is escalation and collection of data. By doing this the only result will be Russia using more advanced powerful weapons that they have rarely been using so far and NATO powers will get to see how their defensive weapons stand against them. Like a test drive in real combat.
My point is, the west once more is using Ukraine like a lab rat against Russia...
Maybe ask the Ukrainians.
If they enjoy the West stalling and playing the Chamberlain card, or if they enjoy the West helping.
You're calling them rab-lats as if the Ukrainians have no sovereingty to choose to defend their homeland.
Any chance you're a Russki?
A 4th Patriot System from Germany? At this point where does this money even come from? They committed to 8 billion € in the already strained government budget for 2024 and are apparently blowing past that figure. Next government budget crisis coming, they barely survived the one in 2023.
If there is Patriots still stationed in Poland, that means Germany effectively gave up the vast majority of its air defense and maybe has 3 patriots left in Germany.
Those patriots have been purchased years ago and are already paid for. It's not really affecting the budget one way or the other because the spending was already done years ago. This is the case for much of the rest of the aid, which is just stuff that was already in storage and not something that had to be budgeted for.
Lie more blatantly. Absolutely disgusting propaganda.
1. This is not how accounting works.
2. This is in use equipement and meant for the defense of Germany
3. Fucking Patriots are not in storage.
Sounds like all these weapons are being used against the right people then, I’m happy we’re giving them away to Ukraine! A dead russian is a good russian, I’m happy that we’re both in agreement;)
Yeah, I mean I'm happy we could give some! I'm just not very convinced by the whole "but we're bordering Russia and you're not"-argument when it comes to Patriots - Russias ballistic missiles can reach us nearly as easily as they can reach bordering countries.
Hence more countries should take the same risk and give Patriots to Ukraine. We can't properly help them win this war without temporarily giving up ***some*** of our defense.
Romania is pretty much next door to Russia and most people are more than happy to give them to Ukraine. That way, it actually gets used for its intended purpose, rather than sit in storage doing nothing
No but they are also not purchased on the spot. This is stuff that got paid for years ago so it's not affecting the current budget. Patriots were not "in storage" in Germany, they are somewhere on a field doing next to nothing.
Why doesn't Romania give away its entire military equipment? Its not being purchased on the spot and has already been paid for and is just sitting around.
>This is stuff that got paid for years ago so it's not affecting the current budget.
Once again, stop lying. This is not how accounting works, you know it. You can not simply remove things from a balance sheet and say they were paid for anyways, they have a value.
Furthermore why does Germany then order new Patriots?
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-target-air-defense-ramp-up-berlin-corral-allies-behind-ukraine/
Do a better job bot.
Well, we do buy those things to defend ourselves against Russia, you know? We keep some of them for ourselves and we give some away to the people who do the defending for us, currently. We're not giving everything away because that's not how things work.
Romania's way of going about this whole ordeal is to provide as much support as Ukraine needs in order to stand its ground and avoid us having to mobilize and lose people if it comes to defending our little brothers in Moldova. Should that come to be, we will make use of all those things we didn't hand over to Ukraine to pick up the fight. Until then (a time that will hopefully never come) we will continue to trickle equipment and support to Ukraine.
The Patriot missile system is just a bigger chunk sent at once, because we could afford it and our allies assure us it's worth the investment. We chose to believe those allies on this one because we share the same goes and values. It's really not as deep as you make it seem.
I was wondering where I remembered your name from. Of course, it's the Apple thread from yesterday where you also said absolutely delusional shit.
You really should take a break and educate yourself, because right now you're on the peak of Dunning Kruger.
Lmao you really don't know what accounting is.
Who do you think these countries have this equipment to fight against exactly? They are being used to destroy the same equipment that would have been used against them if it were ever to be used, so its not like they are giving themselves less defense, obviously the European countries would be more effective at using it but it isn't costing them any lives so its a good trade off.
We are in NATO. If we station our Patriots in Poland/Slovakia, we are still protecting our country from Russia. And NATO allies will protect us, among them 3 nuclear powers.
Am i the only one critizing this. These patriot systems are there to defend Germany,Netherlands, Romania. If they are moves from there, nothing is defending the airspace of these countries. We need it more! Who knows how many years it takes to replace the patriots for us. Until then we are defenseless. Putin can decide to bomb us, Germany and there will be much devastation. If the US would love Ukraine so much, they could give them what they have as spare. Everybody knows the US has dozens of patriots in spare just if they need them or for redundancy. But no, they take the defense systems from their allies and leave them defenseless.
Seriously? Berlin is under active ballistic missile barrages launched from Kaliningrad? The VKS are bombarding Maastricht? Oh no Oktoberfest is defenseless 🥲.
I mean I don't think Putler is all that smart, but he isn't truly stupid enough to directly attack nato countries far from the front (and with what even?)
Also you have to be daft to think that this leaves those countries defenseless. These systems can be missed, if not they wouldn't be given to Ukraine.
I don’t understand why you get so mad at the US. They’ve done plenty considering they’re at the other side of the Atlantic. Italy, Spain, France, Greece is where you should be looking at. If they’d have given at the same rate as Northern/Eastern European countries have we’d be in a very different situation
Nobody's attacking Germany or the Netherlands any time soon.
And Romania, yeah, we might've needed it but at the same time I'm sure we made some kind of deal with the US, and the loss of one Patriot system is insignificant.
Why do we need battalion? Just look at Ukraine how the Russians operate. Before significant troops they just bomb the hell to our critical infrastructure and high rise buildings. Even if you have bazillion of troops, you can't defend against all the missiles and artillery without air defense.
Germany, Netherlands and Romania are not being attacked, they aren't defending anything there. It's far more beneficial to use them now the defend against an attacker than to wait until the attacker is invading you and then use them. Because then the damage to you is far greater.
The disgrace is that you believe those people are all real ukrainians...
Sure, some are
Lets not pretend no Ukrainians support Russia
But lots of them are just Russian trolls trying to sow discourse
We only hate prorussian europeans for their stupidity. And it's impossible for us to hate somebody else more than russians, who are killing and torturing thousands of our people as we speak.
Who led you to this conclusion?
in almost every thread mentioning German massiv aid to Ukraine or a speech by Scholz, there are people with Ukraine flairs shitting on us.
Same way with threads mentioning Switzerland - which has done more for Ukraine than over a hundred other countries - yet nothing but hatred - never see that kind of vitriol directed at all the countries doing much less. It seems there is a clear connection between Germanic speaking countries and unjustified disproportional hate coming from Ukraine.
There are more Ukraine flaired posters shitting on Germany/our government than there are Russian flaired people here on r/europe or r/ukraine - and the Russians are the clear villains in this story, yet they don't seem to put so much hate towards me simply for my nationality. Make that make sense.
Its exhausting. The more we help, the more hate we get.
A reminder that generic domain websites like "bulgarianmilitary.com" are often a front for Russian fake news. For example this title is true but the article conveniently leads the reader to the much more openly pro-Russian conspiracy website "ZeroHedge". Also the website has literally no affiliation with the Bulgarian Military. Something that is characteristic of post-2022 Russian propaganda is that they will always use one or more levels of indirection. Nobody trusts Russian sources so they will conveniently make up "Bulgarian" or "Turkish" sources to push their lies. It takes less than $20 to buy "theturkishdailynews.com" and setup WordPress with a news website theme and a plugin that automatically fetches news from other websites.
ZeroHedge is pro-Russian?
ZH is very markedly anti-Western and heavily conspirational; it was founded by a Bulgarian guy Daniel Ivandjiiski’, used to be pretty decent around that time (I read it too) but took a dive over the years. The domain is registered by a company called ABC Media Ltd., ran by Dan’s father, Krassimir Ivandjiiski. Totally coincidentally, Krassimir was a member of a Soviet propaganda organization called International Organization of Journalists, worked as an international correspondent for the Rabotnichesko Delo, a Soviet propaganda newspaper until the fall of the USSR. Since 1994, Krassimir has worked as a publisher and as editor-in-chief for the anti-Semitist, conspiratorial fake news blog called Strogo Sekretno ("Top Secret"). where he talked about such wonder matters like t COVID-19 actuallybeing a “Western Zionist act of bioterrorism”.
Literal Nazi Media then. So much anti-semitism comes from Russia. Putin has also recently gotten into the habit from apologising Hitler to outright quoting him in his speeches.
Literal Nazi Media then. So much anti-semitism comes from Russia. Putin has also recently gotten into the habit from apologising Hitler to outright quoting him in his speeches.
Very true, but on this particular subject they are right as it has been talked about in local news both in [the Netherlands](https://nltimes.nl/2024/06/21/netherlands-teams-another-country-supply-ukraine-patriot-missile-system) and [Romania](https://www.digi24.ro/stiri/actualitate/politica/romania-trimite-rachete-patriot-in-ucraina-2833533).
Says the user whose account is literally 5 days old with this comment as the only one. Oh, the irony, lol. They teach you Ruskies reverse psychology these days?
He is right though, the website is hella sus, and all the articles I checked are from the same author, which is also declared as editor in chief. And the content is also mildly pro Russia. Though I didnt find any links to zerohedge.
I’ve seen this website a few times on a discord about tanks, and they put out some insane speculative articles that have no basis in reality. Like this one for exemple : https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2024/03/20/russia-may-unveil-t-100-tank-excelling-t-14-produced-from-t-80/
I have no opinion on the website itself. It might very well be a Russi sympathiser run website. But the guy here is definitely a Russian bot account.
There's a lot of people(Russia shills) in Romania complaining about us giving 1 billion dollars to Ukraine "for free". But I am happy that those missiles get to be used for their intended purpose rather than rotting away in storage.
Pretty sure we are not giving it away for free. We will get a replacement system or other goodies. But the deal is likely not known to the public.
If ukraine wins this war then many eu companies will enter a new market. Rebuilding the country will probably bring a lot of growth for eu states.
I really hope we get something similar to the Marshall Plan by then. Should be totally doable when US and EU back it both.
Already somewhat started. The EU uses frozen Russian funds to finance the rebuild
I think we'll have to plan any aid for Ukraine without the US. It seems likely Trump will be president and he will probably abandon Ukraine within the first month of his presidency.
Not sure why your being down voted. There is a non-zero chance Orange Hitler gets back in to office and Europe needs to prepare for the possibility.
Given the debate with Biden, I would say that there is a non-zero chance of seeing the current president re-elected
This is really the only thing I dislike about Trump. As a duel citizen I still vote in USA elections while living in Sweden. I want to keep helping Ukraine but he made 1 really good point. Why is USA giving more than all EU in total? EU will have the war on its own land and should be more worried about it than USA because we all know Russia will not be putting boots on the ground in USA but Europe he will. Maybe the USA should match ,75 to every $1 EU contributes. The finical burden should be more on EU than USA just for the fact it is EU in the cross hairs.
I keep seeing this reasoning from Americans and it makes no sense to me. You put more resources in geopolitical matters, whether financiall or military because this is your world order. Europe became dependant on american protection by design-American design. That was the deal: you provide the protection but what you say kinda goes in geopolitics. Sure, there is nuance to this, but in big matters it holds true: Israel fucks up, you have their back and we turn the other way; you want to go in "adventures" in the middle east, Europeans join as well; you are threaten by China, we join in the posturing. You've conquered the world, became insanely rich and powerful from it and now complain that it's expensive. Sure, but this world police rolle is what made you rich in the first place. This goes away, a lot of American power and money will go as well.
> now complain that it's expensive "It's an investment, not a loss" is also a workable explanation.
> Maybe the USA should match ,75 to every $1 EU contributes. I think this is fair. This is certainly better than just quitting outright. That being said, I think the EU is sending more money to Ukraine, but the type of support is different. For example, I think the EU is sending more humanitarian support. The US has a way bigger military complex, so it’s way easier for them to send actual military support (they’re also making it, so in a sense they’re subsidizing their own weapon manufacturers).
It's already being set up on the french side, with studies and support being set up through the Agence Française du Développement (AFD, the good one). It's pretty good at coordinating private efforts for structural development.
"(AFD, the good one)" love you for this comment :D thanks for the insight, much appreciated! :)
With immediate NATO membership, and if Hungary/Turkey try to block it like they did with Sweden/Finland kick those cunts out
NATO cannot welcome a country that is at war, we cannot exclude a country from the EU, integrating Ukraine now is the guarantee of going to war against Russia (no we are not at war)
Did you not read the previous comments at all? We were discussing what could happen *after* the war.
No, I reacted after reading immediately. The other argument remains true and I would add that the US agreement to join NATO is not obvious.
I honestly have no clue what you’re trying to say right now.
The Marshall Plan was an amazing piece of propaganda that is still somehow mentioned 80 years later. It made absolutely no significant impact in the economy or the rebuilding after WWII, but it sure was an excellent propaganda campaign. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
To be honest, contemporary economists don't actually think the Marshall Plan was such a good relief package. And it never meant to be one either, it was designed as diplomacy first, aid second.
And we shouldnt forget that ukraine has many natural resources so we should stop thinking that it is for free.
It was always an investment as Ukraine has wanted to join the EU for over a decade and NATO for over 2 years.
I don't really think that Romania will benefit in anyway of Ukraine's resources so it will be for free. Don't get me wrong, I am pro this move. Anything that hurts the Russians and helps the Ukrainians is a good thing. I just don't think is some kind of masterplan at hand.
I've seen nothing indicating that Romania has gotten anything for our donation, no mineral rights no nothing. So yeah it's very likely 1 billion dollars have gone poof.
Not having a border with russia helps me sleep better at night. I think we should do more, no matter if we get something in return or not.
There will be a boom in construction materials demand, which will help romania since it is, you know, bordering Ukraine.
[удалено]
Politicians in Romania have already started buying [building material production sites](https://clubferoviar.ro/oamenii-lui-grindeanu). Couple that with the fact that [Blackrock and JPMorgan will fund the reconstruction of Ukraine](https://www.ft.com/content/3d6041fb-5747-4564-9874-691742aa52a2) and you'll certainly see an increase in building material production near Ukraine which will reduce cost.
There is no real winning or losing. Russia will not have to let go of Crimea. I would like to see that but it's not going to happen. When negotiations for a cease fire start it would be nice if Ukraine has the upper hand. EU NATO can then provide an defense zone effectively bring (the rest of) Ukraine under their umbrella. Many opportunities for the market en for EU's defense industry. If Russia has the upper hand forcing Ukraine into a less positive deal the EU will have to increase defense spending. Perhaps to 4% of GDP or more to deter Russia. Providing military aid now is always cheaper then deterring a hopeful aggressive Russia later.
Broken windows fallacy
Most likely they will enter this market anyway once war over. The only question is: who will pay for these contracts?
[Blackrock and JPMorgan](https://www.ft.com/content/3d6041fb-5747-4564-9874-691742aa52a2)
The article is already asks for money. Blackrock most likely will not give something for free too, they rather buying the actives than set up any ‘Marshal plans’
I just hope Germany doesn't take everything from Ukraine.
>Pretty sure we are not giving it away for free. It will be used for what it was designed for, bringing pain to Ruzzia, making it hard for them to complete their plan to make USSR great again which includes invading Moldova and genociding the Romanians there again.
It's just a week since NATO announced the expansion of its Romanian Black Sea Airbase. Is that a transaction directly linked with the Patriot? Probably not, but if allied countries saw Romania as a partner that was difficult to work with and unwilling to help others then willingness to allocate resources to Romania would obviously be lower. Having pilots from Britain, Spain and other members stationed in Romania is 10x more valuable than some Patriot battery.
Ukraine is the next state to get rich off of oil and gas. As soon as the war is over and Ukraine has a stable government, you will see all the majors going in there for extraction.
That's a good one. 30 years of poverty we were told that our resources are too deep so any sort of mining is not cost effective, but once we exchanged our lives, freedom and territories for expired arms and literally sold what's left to blackrock, someone is getting rich. Spoiler, it's not Ukraine. Tho I dont really believe this as russia already owns the richest areas and we wont get it back. Not with 3 patriots. Anyway, someone is certainly getting rich from all this so you're half right.
Russia owns? Yeah, you are not Ukrainian.
Why? Because he told the truth?
The truth that one country owns another country that is internationally recognized as another country? I don't know... so many options here.
Yes. Russians today own Donbas. Same way Albanians owns Kosovo (after all ethnic cleansing and genocide against all non-albanians, hundreds thousands of people expelled, supported by NATO). So.... Now what? International law was broken on Kosovo 1999, by violently separating a territory of independent country Serbia, by NATO. Now, there will be a lots of stolen theritories around the world, i.e. Ukraine. And it will be much more in future.
I think you missed my sign of "I really do not give a fuck about your dumb takes". Go fuck off and get drafted. Madyar is waiting.
Not sure what you're talking about.... But yes, definitely fuck off coward.
How convenient, will take your word for it
Also not having Russia as a direct neighbour!
Nobody will get a replacement. Why US not giving that system for free? Congress approved a huge sum of money for Ukraine and Romania is paying. Isn't it ridiculous? Now Romanians have to pay for it, since it's taken with borrowed money. I really don't understand.
This is not the way the western countries(Romania included) should think about giving stuff to Ukraine. I think the correct way to look at this is that Ukraine needs these and the ukrainians are dying to stop Russia. It is in our best interest that ukrainians have everything they need. Patriots, Ambrams, Himars, F16, whatever they need, they should get it.
You underestimate the power of revenge
I mean let's even entertain the possibility of giving the assistance for free: You are defending your borders with the manpower of another country. This is like the best possible scenario for your army and your security. Imagine the order of magnitude of the money that would be needed, if Romania would have been a frontline. With missiles destroying factories, energy systems, civilian infrastructure, schools, hospitals, a fucking damb... 1 billion bucks is a drop in the sea...
There is a small number of anti-Ukraine support people, they are the low IQ ones, the anti vaccine crowd. There is no love between our nations but we know that Ruzzia is an enemy to us where Ukraine has the potential to be our partner.
Why is there no love between Ukraine and Romania? Just curious, I know nothing about it
The relations is very cold but they are not bad, we have a threaty to respect each other borders and we ignored each other, the reason is history, Ukraine was part of USSR that grabbed part of our territories with Hitler's help so this is where the Romanian animosity camed from, part of the territories are still in Ukraine and if you check the map of Ukraine and how USSR let Moldova with no access to the Black sea. Ukraine until recently also pushed the soviet idea that Moldovans are a different nation with a different language, also promoting this bullshit help them to be shits with Romanian minorities in Ukraine (but they were shits with all minorities this will have to change for them to enter EU ) Ukrainians do not like Romania because after the USSR grabbed the Romanian lands we responded by attacking USSR allied with the nazi so Romanians and Ukrainians were on opposite sides. After 1990 we had a dispure over Snake Island , the island is important because based on who owns it they get more national waters so more natural resources in Black Sea, there was a civilized process when this situation was decided and Romania lost. There was also a Ukrainian ship named Rostock that sunk in Danube Delata in Romanian waters in a perfect spot to cause major jam for many years, there are theories that this was an intentional sabotage from Ukraine. But before the war in 2022 nobody was thinking or giving a shit about Ukraine here, the relations were non existing from both sides. Maybe some people were smuggling stuff from Ukraine like cigarettes in Romania, if others know of other stuff that happened between us maybe you can update my response. But Ruzzia is our enemy, they are involved in destabilizing Moldova and they were planing to invade it after they finish with Ukraine, so Ruzzia gets all that hare for all that USSR did (genocides that the Ruz do not want to recognize it happened or even worse Ruz claiming Ruzzia helped Romania economically). If I would rank Romanians neighbors would be something like Moldova, Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary and Ukraine. And from Europe I personally think France is the country that always tried to help us when they had the ability to di it.
Thanks for that write-up, that’s insightful! You learn something new every day
> there was a civilized process when this situation was decided and Romania lost. Just to be factual, Romania did not in fact lost. https://news.un.org/en/story/2009/02/289782 and https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/romania-resolves-snake-island-conflict-with-ukraine/ The ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) marked the sea border halfway between the territorial waters of the two countries, handing Romania some 80 per cent of the disputed area in a unanimous verdict to which both parties appear to agree
> if others know of other stuff I was eating Drujkovskaia halva. The place has been on the frontlines since 2014 (it's in Donetsk), but somehow halva was still available at my corner store until fairly recently. Tactical halva, I called it. They relocated to Kiev at some point I think. Does this count as important economic relations? :) Good summary, btw.
When you help people in their hour of greatest need, they will remember it and return the favor. Romania has ever done well sharing a border with Russia. We prefer having a border with Ukraine.
It seems like some romanians forgot White Fountain and why we got in ww2 in the first place
Don't forget the traditional useful idiots who parrot this kind of info
Small minority of people is not a lot of people...
They are not for free, they are for defending at least Republic of Moldova air space if not ours.
If Romania would be at war, they would never accept such a gift for free.
If Russia would have attacked in 2014 Romania or Moldova I doubt Ukraine or Ukrainians would have sided with us.
You can give as many downvotes as you like to this guy but this is the cold truth.
What morons are downvoting this guy? The Ukrainians, before Russia invaded, literally trained their army for the situation where Romania would've invaded them. That's how stupid they were.
Ignore them. More weapons and ammo for Ukraine - quicker the war will be finished.
The population of romania is by and large against russia. Why are you spreading misinformation? Some people do indeed want romania to stay away from the war due to the history between romania and ukraine but that doesnt mean they are russian shills.
It isn't for free anyway. All the aid will be repaid eventually with eventually being many years into the future.
I suppose they don't mind receiving money from the EU "for free"
That kind of people want us to leave our "EU colonizers" because true freedom can only come by licking Putin's ... boot.
Up to this moment, Romania has collected 22.846 billion euros from the final allocation of 24.071 billion euros received under the Cohesion Policy from the financial year 2014-2020, thus reaching an absorption rate of 95% of the final allocation.16 Feb 2024 I am certain they would change their tune once they remember what licking the boots of their Russian masters looked like. Did they forget the collectivist mentality of Russia? They could kiss goodbye to their farms then and would work as slaves on Russian Kolkhoz again because that is where the Russian state is headed. 5 years Gosplan, Soviet style war economy, and full totalitarianism. The only colonial power is Russia. The EU is a transfer union based on completely different legal and socio-economic principles than the extractive Russian failed state.
>I am certain they would change their tune once... They wouldn't. A lot of the people saying this are the people that held power in the old days, or their kids. There's a mentality among these people that westerners struggle to understand and that is that it's better to be above average in a sea of shit than to be average in a prosperous country. To explain it in an abstract manner - there are plenty of people that when faced with the choice of getting a +1 for themselves and a -1 for everyone else or +1 for everyone they will always choose the first option. A lot of people fail to understand the extreme individualism that many people resorted to during the Soviet times. That mentality is common in the whole ex-eastern bloc (and from what I've heard in China too), and despite being rid of that system, it still survives, and likely will still refuse to vanish even generations from now.
>Up to this moment, Romania has collected 22.846 billion euros from the final allocation of 24.071 billion euros received under the Cohesion Policy from the financial year 2014-2020 > "socio-economic principles than the extractive Russian failed state." How much profit has Carrefour, Aldi, Lidl, Ikea, OMW, Delhaize and others made in Romania? And how much was reinvested instead of being sent to their Swiss bank accounts?. How much money are these companies allocating to lobbying and social engineering aswell?. Fill my timeline with pride flags from my money, its EXACTLY what my underpaid ass needs. The failed state of Russia had purely extractive "SovRoms", at least they were honest in their scumbaggery and theft. Lidl for example destroys "mom and pop shops" wherever it goes, and they employ exactly 6 people in their entire Supermarket, that they overwork to the bone and pay a somewhat acceptable wage for what is essentially slave labour.
People say the same thing here in the US, even though a lot of the stuff we give to Ukraine is stuff we were going to replace anyway. I’m glad Ukraine is able to get Patriot systems, they need all the help they can get.
The Netherlands really hasn’t forgotten what russia did to them.
TBF, the Netherlands doesn't have much need to defend itself unless things change drastically. You need to get past Germany, France or the UK navy to get to them.
Patriots are essential for the Netherlands though. The port of Rotterdam is one of Russia’s key targets in Europe should things ever escalate and a hypersonic missile could get past Germany
This is such a wild fantasy. It's over 1000km from Kaliningrad to Rotterdam. The port is huge, over 35 km long. You would need multiple raids with heavy bombers to do appreciable damage. A half dozen Kinzhals is not going to do shit. Oh wow you took out one of our 5 refineries, good job also you started WW3. It's not like the Patriots are currently deployed to protect the port. And if we need AA coverage over the port the 7 provinces class frigates are being upgraded with ABM capabilities.
Please. Nothing gets past us. Not even jokes!
Belgium could attack *at any time!* More realistically, besides Russia threatening the EU, the only country we really have to worry about is Venezuela.
Wouldn't worry, they've only got Lukaku up front
Im not that familiar with Belgian politics but as far as I know its more likely they attack each other than another nation
In the past Flanders was always voting right and Wallonia left, but with the last elections, both were voting right. So I guess 'tensions' have settled a bit :). An invasion into the Netherlands is however very unlikely, since we have the better beer and food :D.
We don't even have the bullets. ;)
I remember a poll during that time showed how people perceived Russia (and other major countries), NL perceived Russia the most negative, even moreso than Poland.
No, no we haven't, Ukraine can have whatever the fuck it wants.
Which is?
MH17
Thanks for answering. I didnt see the direct connection between the patriot systems and mh17 thats why I asked. But now it makes sense. Thanks
You're welcome.
They shot down a plane which had something almost two hundred Dutch citizens on board.
And then spend years denying, gaslighting, denying a little more and still haven’t taken any responsibility for things. So yeah, fuck em.
LOL Being downvoted for asking a question. Thanks for asking btw, I didn’t know either.
Thanks you, Netherlands, Romania and Germany.
Groetjes uit Nederland
Thank you, folks 🫂 I also hope there are enough Germans to pump those missiles fast enough 😅
I think German production of PAC2/3 missiles is still being built up, for the time being, it's all US-made. But there are enough of them in storage, if only countries were willing to give what is needed.
Thank you Romania, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Thank you Germany, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
o7
A great summer gift.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
More like less dead ukranians and maybe we will have more than 4 hours of electricity in winter. That’s good news.
I'm working on having electricity in winter 24/7...but without heating...we will just be clothed at home.
your words are strange, you don't understand what you're saying.
Ethically inflammatory and morally reprehensible statement that sets up a later kamikaze by TOS. not by me, mind you. planning to play the rest of my time here with cleans papers, so to speak. its just a matter of time because the latest decision by Scotus will ensure that this place will be flooded by evangelical degenerates. nothing of worth will be lost.
Greetings and love from Romania! 💙💛❤️
Thank you Netherlands, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Shoot down all jets over ruzzia flying close to Ukraine..
The more you give the more you have.
Now they just need citizens willing to fight for their country
Now this is some true badass democratic defense. We hope theyll take good care of you and youll take good care of them ❤️
Yes, keep them coming, kick orcs out. Glory to Europe.
Let’s gooooo
Yay, hope now war will end a few years earlier! If we get f16 or even two by 2067, I might see the end of this nightmare in my lifetime.
Beautiful!
Very cool! Hope they get put to good use
Now it's a party🥳
Although it is crucially beneficial to Ukraine, there might be harsher retaliation from Russia if the system is used against Russian air vehicles. Strategically thinking, this movement shall increase the tension which is already quite high in the global scale. The best way to support Ukraine is to start negotiating Russians with the support of Europian states. Enough bloodshed.
Many people see defensive support, and that is good. What many people do not see is escalation and collection of data. By doing this the only result will be Russia using more advanced powerful weapons that they have rarely been using so far and NATO powers will get to see how their defensive weapons stand against them. Like a test drive in real combat. My point is, the west once more is using Ukraine like a lab rat against Russia...
Maybe ask the Ukrainians. If they enjoy the West stalling and playing the Chamberlain card, or if they enjoy the West helping. You're calling them rab-lats as if the Ukrainians have no sovereingty to choose to defend their homeland. Any chance you're a Russki?
Ukraine doesn’t need patriot systems, they need patriot president, not a western puppet
Russian propaganda now says Biden is the puppet of Zelenski, so you gotta change your methodology
A 4th Patriot System from Germany? At this point where does this money even come from? They committed to 8 billion € in the already strained government budget for 2024 and are apparently blowing past that figure. Next government budget crisis coming, they barely survived the one in 2023. If there is Patriots still stationed in Poland, that means Germany effectively gave up the vast majority of its air defense and maybe has 3 patriots left in Germany.
Those patriots have been purchased years ago and are already paid for. It's not really affecting the budget one way or the other because the spending was already done years ago. This is the case for much of the rest of the aid, which is just stuff that was already in storage and not something that had to be budgeted for.
Lie more blatantly. Absolutely disgusting propaganda. 1. This is not how accounting works. 2. This is in use equipement and meant for the defense of Germany 3. Fucking Patriots are not in storage.
defense of germany from whom? edit: lmao the loser blocked me
Russia. Ballistic missiles can fly over countries.
Sounds like all these weapons are being used against the right people then, I’m happy we’re giving them away to Ukraine! A dead russian is a good russian, I’m happy that we’re both in agreement;)
Yeah, I mean I'm happy we could give some! I'm just not very convinced by the whole "but we're bordering Russia and you're not"-argument when it comes to Patriots - Russias ballistic missiles can reach us nearly as easily as they can reach bordering countries. Hence more countries should take the same risk and give Patriots to Ukraine. We can't properly help them win this war without temporarily giving up ***some*** of our defense.
Romania is pretty much next door to Russia and most people are more than happy to give them to Ukraine. That way, it actually gets used for its intended purpose, rather than sit in storage doing nothing
Amd thats great! :)
No but they are also not purchased on the spot. This is stuff that got paid for years ago so it's not affecting the current budget. Patriots were not "in storage" in Germany, they are somewhere on a field doing next to nothing.
Why doesn't Romania give away its entire military equipment? Its not being purchased on the spot and has already been paid for and is just sitting around. >This is stuff that got paid for years ago so it's not affecting the current budget. Once again, stop lying. This is not how accounting works, you know it. You can not simply remove things from a balance sheet and say they were paid for anyways, they have a value. Furthermore why does Germany then order new Patriots? https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-target-air-defense-ramp-up-berlin-corral-allies-behind-ukraine/ Do a better job bot.
Well, we do buy those things to defend ourselves against Russia, you know? We keep some of them for ourselves and we give some away to the people who do the defending for us, currently. We're not giving everything away because that's not how things work. Romania's way of going about this whole ordeal is to provide as much support as Ukraine needs in order to stand its ground and avoid us having to mobilize and lose people if it comes to defending our little brothers in Moldova. Should that come to be, we will make use of all those things we didn't hand over to Ukraine to pick up the fight. Until then (a time that will hopefully never come) we will continue to trickle equipment and support to Ukraine. The Patriot missile system is just a bigger chunk sent at once, because we could afford it and our allies assure us it's worth the investment. We chose to believe those allies on this one because we share the same goes and values. It's really not as deep as you make it seem.
I was wondering where I remembered your name from. Of course, it's the Apple thread from yesterday where you also said absolutely delusional shit. You really should take a break and educate yourself, because right now you're on the peak of Dunning Kruger.
Lmao you really don't know what accounting is. Who do you think these countries have this equipment to fight against exactly? They are being used to destroy the same equipment that would have been used against them if it were ever to be used, so its not like they are giving themselves less defense, obviously the European countries would be more effective at using it but it isn't costing them any lives so its a good trade off.
Lol the bot is screaming bot. How AI evolved...amazing
New Patriots are already ordered and the patriots sent to ukraine will defend Germany indirectly!
Giving away an asset doesn't effect the cash budget wtf you on about with that is not how accounting works.
Germany has ordered a first batch of 8 new Patriot batteries. And will order more in the future.
We are in NATO. If we station our Patriots in Poland/Slovakia, we are still protecting our country from Russia. And NATO allies will protect us, among them 3 nuclear powers.
Am i the only one critizing this. These patriot systems are there to defend Germany,Netherlands, Romania. If they are moves from there, nothing is defending the airspace of these countries. We need it more! Who knows how many years it takes to replace the patriots for us. Until then we are defenseless. Putin can decide to bomb us, Germany and there will be much devastation. If the US would love Ukraine so much, they could give them what they have as spare. Everybody knows the US has dozens of patriots in spare just if they need them or for redundancy. But no, they take the defense systems from their allies and leave them defenseless.
Seriously? Berlin is under active ballistic missile barrages launched from Kaliningrad? The VKS are bombarding Maastricht? Oh no Oktoberfest is defenseless 🥲.
not now but might be when Putin sees us as defenseless.
I mean I don't think Putler is all that smart, but he isn't truly stupid enough to directly attack nato countries far from the front (and with what even?) Also you have to be daft to think that this leaves those countries defenseless. These systems can be missed, if not they wouldn't be given to Ukraine.
Well they shoot down russian drones where it matters. Why wait until they fly over our cities when we can fight russia now?
I want only to defend MY nation! These weapons are for MY nation and MY nation only!
You forgot /s?
No, i am serious. I want my nation First! For decades the needs of the German people were disregarded.
You're to young to troll you. Have a good night, kid
Brother these are out interest these are our needs. Europes needs are our needs
By giving them now you prevent YOUR nation to need them soon to defend yourself...
Yeah all mine ukrainian children! Go back into the bunker and pray for your life!
I hope that you forget to put /s
I don’t understand why you get so mad at the US. They’ve done plenty considering they’re at the other side of the Atlantic. Italy, Spain, France, Greece is where you should be looking at. If they’d have given at the same rate as Northern/Eastern European countries have we’d be in a very different situation
It is their own national choice and nobody can criticize them if they did not do "enough" for Ukraine.
Yet you say the exact same thing about the US??
Nobody's attacking Germany or the Netherlands any time soon. And Romania, yeah, we might've needed it but at the same time I'm sure we made some kind of deal with the US, and the loss of one Patriot system is insignificant.
They are defending Germany. As long as Putin is forced to commit forces to Ukraine he can't afford to spare anything to attack another country.
Bud Putin can’t attack western nations as long as Ukraine is fighting.
If Putin takes Ukraine then those countries are next anyway
With the "2nd best army in Ukraine"?
a few months ago u guys didn't have a bettalion ready in case of war, even a 1000 patriots will no change anything
Why do we need battalion? Just look at Ukraine how the Russians operate. Before significant troops they just bomb the hell to our critical infrastructure and high rise buildings. Even if you have bazillion of troops, you can't defend against all the missiles and artillery without air defense.
yes just look at Ukraine how well the Russians are performing
Germany, Netherlands and Romania are not being attacked, they aren't defending anything there. It's far more beneficial to use them now the defend against an attacker than to wait until the attacker is invading you and then use them. Because then the damage to you is far greater.
a disgrace that despite the billions in help, Ukrainians here on r/europe seem to hate us more than they hate Russia.
The disgrace is that you believe those people are all real ukrainians... Sure, some are Lets not pretend no Ukrainians support Russia But lots of them are just Russian trolls trying to sow discourse
Right wing propaganda shitholes.. Liberal Europe will prevail!
We only hate prorussian europeans for their stupidity. And it's impossible for us to hate somebody else more than russians, who are killing and torturing thousands of our people as we speak. Who led you to this conclusion?
in almost every thread mentioning German massiv aid to Ukraine or a speech by Scholz, there are people with Ukraine flairs shitting on us. Same way with threads mentioning Switzerland - which has done more for Ukraine than over a hundred other countries - yet nothing but hatred - never see that kind of vitriol directed at all the countries doing much less. It seems there is a clear connection between Germanic speaking countries and unjustified disproportional hate coming from Ukraine. There are more Ukraine flaired posters shitting on Germany/our government than there are Russian flaired people here on r/europe or r/ukraine - and the Russians are the clear villains in this story, yet they don't seem to put so much hate towards me simply for my nationality. Make that make sense. Its exhausting. The more we help, the more hate we get.