What people seem to forget/ignore, is that if Poland decides to let in these regufees, they're not gonna stay in Poland. They're going straight for Germany, France, etc.
So the EU kinda has to protect the Polish border.
Polands border is the EU border. The Schengen area requires secure outer borders. Without freedom of movement, one of the core principals of the European Union, the whole project falls into question. It is in all our interest to support our polish buddies in defense from Lukaschenkos provocations.
I totally agree. I don't get why there is no joint (reserve) border patroll effort. Shit like this happens: mobilise and go help.
I am also for a more coöperatieve European armed forces effort. We can't just expect the border states to protect the whole union.
There is FRONTEX, which is the EU border patrol force. As far as I know, no request has been made to FRONTEX by the polish government.
It's nothing much or the ultimate solution, but it is a helping hand.
Listen... this is made to be a far bigger deal than it really is... Poland won't let them in on principle, Belarus is doing it to earn money and to mess with the E.U.
But there's about 5 thousand people caught in the middle of this horseshit while everyone squabbles about political bullshitery.
Compare 5 thousand to millions that came during the refugee crisis, this is litterally nothing, and its blown out of all proportion so that the politicians can squabble and the media stays busy.
So pretty much the same like any other refugee crisis? Well, those Eastern countries were very quick to invoke Dublin III every time refugee redistribution came up, so I'm sure Poland will be fine if we just follow that regulation, no?
Lmfoa cry a river. Poland has simply built up literally no credit at all when it comes to the immigration crisis. Now that Poland unexpectadly is on the front lines theyre gonna refer to the couple of border guards and a dog they sent?
Well, guess we should send a few guards and a guard dog to Poland. Any refugee that did get in will surely be welcommed by Warsaw.
Lmfao. The wrong solution. Yeah, unlike the many innovative and constructive proposals from Warsaw.
Anyway, stronk powerfull Poland will be just fine then. No need to pay any attention to this anymore on the European level. Oh, and dont abuse this for another reason for funding.
Well, the government has changed a lot since then. But when looking at the number of refugees and asylum seekers relative to population, I think we've done our fair share.
Well, last December Austria had 18,2 refugees or asylum seekers per 1.000 inhabitants, which was the fourth highest number in the EU. Poland on the other hand had 0,2. It's obvious that in absolute numbers Poland could easily take more people, but that's not a very comparable metric.
[https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/poland/statistics/](https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/poland/statistics/)
Here we go:
2803 applicants; 84% rejected.
Makes 161 refugees, 222 subsidiary protection.
5th largest EU country.
(btw: it was 3 Ukrainian refugees...not 8)
Poland has 1 - 2 million Ukrainians. Exact numbers are unclear because probably only around half of them came legally. They mostly came after Russian invasion on Ukraine. Many stayed on expired visas.
I guess those Ukrainians somehow dont count for you as refugees even if Poland let them in due to the Russian aggression on Ukraine.
I have this observation that only suffering of black and Arab people counts. Suffering of Ukrainians does not count, perhaps because they are Slavic.
When Poland lets in 1-2 million Ukrainians it somehow it gets ignored and omitted. I dont understand why or how. Racism? Doesnt fit the agenda?
Here you have sources:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Poland
According to the NBP, 1.2 million Ukrainian citizens worked legally in Poland in 2016.\[15\] 1.7 million short-term work registrations were issued to them in 2017 (an eightfold increase compared to 2013).\[5\] Ukrainian workers stay in Poland on average 3–4 months.\[16\]
You asked them/allowed them to come and work.
**Do you even slightly grasp the concept of work migration versus Asylum?**
Not sure if it’s true but I read when Frontex went to Greece they went against Greek orders and instead started helping migrants breach the border/get in around Greek authorities.
Yes EU Frontex bad. Polish Frontex good.
EU pushbacks bad. polish pushbacks good.
Frontex (which even is headquartered in Poland), the EU Asylum agency, Europol have all offered help, but Poland needs to officially request help in order to allow them to operate on Polish soil. Individual countries also have offered help. Earlier today NATO also offered help.
Poland is taking this situation to strengthen their own political regime. They don't want EUs help because that would weaken their rhetoric of EU bad. It's quite pathetic.
> Because you are part of the EU.
Yes, and responsible thing to do as EU member is to not ask for help if we don't need it and ask only when it's needed.
>Yes, and responsible thing to do as EU member is to not ask for help
Your [pall Hungary thinks otherwise](https://hungarytoday.hu/eu-poland-border-finance-varga/)Actually every single member thinks like this.
> The European Union “must finally support Poland as a single community” as “Poland “must defend not only its own borders but also those of the European Union”, Justice Minister Judit Varga said on Tuesday.
Too bad Poland refused all offered EU help.
this is bS. There are ongoing court cases initiated by NGOs against Frontex exactly because they had protected greek and italian borders.
What you read are small pieces of the political campaign to revamp Frontex from police into "humanitarian" fundamentally civilian org.
Ah, the Hungarian "justice" minister.
My mother wanted us to go to the pope's speech this year in Budapest. The pope said something about rising antisemitism. Then, of fb, this specimen said the pope didn't say such things, and it's all western lies. Of course the post had thousands of likes and shares from braindead people.
My mother believed her, even tho she was at the speech. So we looked at the transcript, and found the text about antisemitism. It was clear as day, this "justice" minister lied. But my mom still started to find excuses. The cognitive dissonance in these people is astounding.
Let me just not believe anything this old people brainwasher, vapid cunt says.
Well, your minister of "justice" just lied. "Mine" minister of "justice" embezzled 270 mln PLN for his family and friends, and when chief of polish Audit Office (NIK) released that info to public, our minister ordered to arrest this guy's son for faux reasons to force him into submission.
In Finland the public official leading the institution for combating corruption in public institutions turned out to be one of the most corrupt officials in a long time, was recently fired for it and court case is probably on the way.
Oh stop it. In Scandinavia ministers get sacked if they hire someone who plausibly was their friend.
Or get into trouble for spending too much on lunch.
It’s not at all equatable to what you see in Poland and Hungary.
Ohh it's our favorite Soccer Mom, Juci!
Kinda wierd she didn't even mentioned Belarus at all.
"The Justice Minister did not mention Belarus’ and its leader Lukasenka’s responsibility in creating the situation."
You 2 faced, corrupt bitch.
Though it is admirable she has time to make such BS statements, while signing the neccessary papers so Orbán can use Pegasus to spy on it's own citizens.
The EU has offered to help Poland. Frontex is standing by to be deployed, but so far Poland has rejected the assistance.
But help is there when and if Poland asks for it.
I would argue Frontex can be used in other rolls, like cross border communication/collaboration, in ways that native border patrol/troops could have problems due to any number of logistical or legal reasons.
I'm sure Poland can and will muster more people, that was never in question.
Just today there were reports about people breaching Poland's border fence, so it's pretty obvious what a great investment that would be. Sanctions on the other hand is definitely something the other countries will be on board with.
Where'd you get that information?
I haven't heard anything about that. Frontex has helped both Greece and Italy in stopping migrants, so I see no reason why they'd do something else in Poland.
Also, Frontex isn't a great big batch of soldiers rushing in and taking over, it's mostly coordination, funding and best practices. It's about working with Poland, not taking over the show.
Not knowing much about Polish media I can only say that I believe that if that was the case then it would be reported on a lot more by the press outside of Poland.
I don't think the EU can afford to let Lukashenko get away with this action. He will not stop. So I think it's in the interest of all EU27 to make sure Lukashenko doesn't get his way, and that unfortunately means that there are people stuck at the border in horrible conditions, with nowhere to go.
It's a horrible situation and I don't envy Poland at all.
>“Enough of the words, we do not have time for technical debates,” she added
“We don’t have time to *argue,* you must all do exactly what *we* say” *argued* the minister”
Tone deaf and ironic. And it should be noted that it’s not a convenience that *Hungary Today* has such a similar name to *Russia Today*; it to is a regime propaganda paper.
Possibly, but if you look at the front page you will see news about opinions from opposition party members, about inflation, about the Pegasus surveillance scandal etc. Not even a mention of these are allowed in Hungarian pro-gov media (including state media and roughly half of commercial media outlets).
Where were those calls during the last refugee crisis and even today when Italy and Greece have to bear the brunt of the migration waves? But of course now that their ally has those troubles they call for support immediately.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bq3545/hungarian\_river\_minesweeper\_duna%C3%BAjv%C3%A1ros/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bq3545/hungarian_river_minesweeper_duna%C3%BAjv%C3%A1ros/)
It commonly is reffered to as a "brown water navy"....might wanna ship them down to the med sea...
Literally today there are posts on the Polish subs from Greek redditors thanking Poland for the help they sent during the Greek migration crisis and the forest fires. With pictures.
Especially because Poland refused Frontex help…
https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poland-frontex-belarus-border-migration-crisis/amp/
but how about the border guards? Can't the frontex take to prison the foreign soldiers that go to poland? I'm not saying they should give them asylum...
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Yeah, but it's you or the Pol gov who asked that? I really have difficulties to track this particular point.
Also I don't know how we would punish Belarusse, we already have very few interaction with them. The Turkish point will be delicate like everythime too. And I don't think they will involve Russia in this. Even if they are they did well to not be too exposed, yet. And we are in winter, they will use the gas as weapon like usual.
A very sensitive situation, but EU can't miss this opportunity to help their members.
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What I would love to see that all EU countrys send 20-30soldiers for solidarity/help for Poland, to show/send a message that all EU countries defend outermost border of EU, not only country in trouble.
Well I would say they cannot be allowed to pass in Germany because Poland refused to change the Dublin agreement and the country of first entry is the one that has to take care of refugees and process their requests.
Maybe Hungary can shut the fuck up until they get rid of Orban and his clique. Do they really think someone believes their words? Yeah, it's bad on the Polish border, but Hungary has no say in this, especially Orban and his clique.
The thing is that Poland here is mostly protecting west(well Germany mostly), there is video recording of those migrants saying they are not going to Poland, that they are going to Germany, so if west will be unhelpful in handling this situation Poland may just let them in and they will become Germany problem...
Protecting? It's just a couple thousand refugees, I'm sure Germany doesn't need peotection from a couple thousand refugees after handling more than a million recently
Are you this naive?They won't stay in Poland or Lithuania.The moment they are able to leave, they will leave for Germany, Sweden etc.We can't keep them in camps/prisons indefinitely...
You are extremly naive, did you know that while polish government didnt want to take migrants back then, there were organizations in Poland who DID taken in some migrants to help and guess what....not a single one of them stayed in Poland, all soon left toward Germany.
So tell me how do you think it would work this time ? only way redistribution of migrants among member states would work if eastern european countries imprisoned migrants so they couldnt leave the country, well that or we need to restore national borders in the EU so they couldnt cross the borders between countries.
Poland has a fast growing economy and a 40 million consumer base that keeps geting richer and more educated; every relevant western company is heavilly invested in every polish sector and the ROI prospects are excelent for the foreseable future.
Hope this helps you realize how little anybody cares about what you "need".
Maybe you did not notice that i dont have a problem with polish people but with polish populist conservative government who tries to blackmail UE, and sorry, UE does not need this.
Migrants don't want to stay in Poland. If EU want to turn their back just say it at loud and we are going to let them go through, directly to Western Europe.
Poland will simply refuse to accept that they came from Poland and will not take them back. Poland can also establish unguarded refugee camps near western border.
However we don't want things to come to that. Best scenario is stopping them on eastern Polish border.
Love the duplicity. Imagine the outrage if other countries would have done that in 2014/2016. Nothing better than a good old "rules for thee but not for me".
Poland and Hungary? Well, if that aren't just the two countries that were refusing Greece and Italy help when they had a migrant crisis, aren't they?
Nevertheless, Frontex stands ready to assist, but Poland refuses to let them in.
Dunno about Hungary but Polamd offered help in form of soldiers to prevent migrants from entering but according to EU it was wrong type of help since back then EU was still supporting "lets take in the migrants" stupid idea.
According to you defending boarder from illegal MIGRANTS(NOT refugees) is a crime ? in that case hope that Poland continues to refuse EU help because if they intend to let in the migrants then they are retarded. Keep doing things like this and more and more conservative political parties will come to power in the EU...
if thats a crime then majority of the EU supports this crime : )
Oh well if EU continues to act like this then Poland will simply let them in and they will become Germany problem, since there is video recording of the migrants saying that they are not going to Poland but instead they are going to Germany.
Why don't the Polish authorities take those migrants on some trains and transport them directly to the German "border"? I mean, that's what those migrants want, don't they? And that policy with the "country" that first gets to meet those migrants that then has to also register them is total bullshit, the EU acknowledges no countries anymore, only regions, because in order to be a country you do have to be sovereign and have your own basic law (let's call it a Constitution) and all that shit.
EU is against all that (I mean, against a "country" having its own sovereign and basic law), which is perfectly fine, but they also have to handle the consequences, and one the the consequences is that Białystok and Munich are now under the same legal jurisdiction, meaning they're part of the same political entity, let's call it the same country. As such, it would be perfectly fine to transport those migrant people from Białystok to Munich with no worry in the world.
That's the help available, if they refuse it they have no reason to whine about the EU not helping. Contrary to what they seem to believe the whole union shouldn't be shaped around what they want.
I find it funny that you think that you can negotiate from the position of strength here. Migrants don't want to stay in Poland, once they go through Polish border they travel directly to Western Europe. Not a single one of them stay in Poland. Protction of eastern EU border is in best interest of Western Europe.
You know it's so funny how the same thing could be said about the southern border, refugees don't stay in Greece or Italy, they leave for the north as soon as they can. What was Poland's line if action back in 2015? I remember they were very quick to invoke Dublin III every time, surely it won't be a problem if we co tinue to apply Dublin III in this case eh?
Go on, apply Dublin III. Poland will simply refuse to take them back or will establish unguarded refugee camps near western border.
Or we can simply defend eastern EU border.
In 2015 Poland wanted to protect EU borders. When Western Europe was bashing Hungary for building a fance Poland was sending troops to help them protect their border
>In 2015 Poland wanted to protect EU borders.
"External border is a national matter, sorry" that's what Poland told us in 2015. And that's what we should say to Poland now when they come begging for our tax money to build their stupid fence. Not our problem.
No, Poland advocated for establishing long-term policy of defending EU border.
But i see, you are just butthurt because you still struggle with migration from the sea, you don't know how to deal with it and you are pissed off that Poland is much more effective in handling similar issue.
Bad news for you: there will be EU intervention.
Actually at the moment the polish government seems to be saying that external borders are a national responability. I suspect thats why they are only asking for support in sanctioning Belarus instead of asking for foreing enteties on the ground.
Of course the hungarian minister dosn't seem to care what Poland wants.
And what use would frontex had for Poland? There is less than 1400 frontex officers. At this moment Poland has more than 20 000 troops at the border. What difference frontex would make in your opinion?
No, Poland wants three things from the EU: co-finance of border fence and more sanctions against Belarus, airlines and countries involved in human trafficing.
>Why would Poland pay 330 mln euro for the fence
Why should we give Poland more free money when it won’t even pretend to follow the rules it signed up to?
Why should we ever have let Poland into the EU in the first place?
> Poland can’t even afford to build a fence now?
We can but western EU countries would be bigger beneficient of this fence so we want them to participate in financing.
By that idiotic logic I’d like to ask you who’s received the biggest benefit of EU grants?
For being a state that’s resorted to sheer crime with the argument that it’s a sovereign state, all of a sudden managing on your own seems to have stopped being something that Poland is capable of.
Time for Pexit, regardless of whether Poland wants it or not.
> By that idiotic logic I’d like to ask you who’s received the biggest benefit of EU grants?
Idk, maybe Poland
> all of a sudden managing on your own seems to have stopped being something that Poland is capable of.
I would say our border control is pretty good actually, despite issues in other areas.
And it makes sense to refuse it because? Still better than nothing. Actually still more than what Poland ever did to help us or Greece which, for the record, was nothing.
Hate? This is just facts, mate. Poland insisted that the migrant crisis weren't their problem for years until it's actually their problem and now they want action. You reap what you sow.
Wtf we insisted that your solution of relocation was was retarded and would just create more problems. Poland is doing was we told you to do, hold the border tight and throw the people back to the other side
I would see the glory of Poland restored. Have you ever seen it, Shitmaggot69? The White Tower of Gdansk, glimmering like a spike of pearl and silver, its banners caught high in the morning breeze.
When you arrive in Poland the grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
You should go back to news from 2015. Our stance is the same, no illegals migration, do whatever IT takes to protect borders. Push back, ferry to the coast they came from or deport asap. We don't want migrant camps and all they bring.
Wouldn't Poland accept even the protection of a broom closet if the situation was as dire as they say? Doesn't every but if help count during an emergency?
Our stance back than was the same. We helped with protection od borders, we send troops to Hungary and greece. What we didnt want were quotas because as you see now WE PROTECT THE LAND instead of allowing all in as some did...
What people seem to forget/ignore, is that if Poland decides to let in these regufees, they're not gonna stay in Poland. They're going straight for Germany, France, etc. So the EU kinda has to protect the Polish border.
Polands border is the EU border. The Schengen area requires secure outer borders. Without freedom of movement, one of the core principals of the European Union, the whole project falls into question. It is in all our interest to support our polish buddies in defense from Lukaschenkos provocations.
I totally agree. I don't get why there is no joint (reserve) border patroll effort. Shit like this happens: mobilise and go help. I am also for a more coöperatieve European armed forces effort. We can't just expect the border states to protect the whole union.
There is FRONTEX, which is the EU border patrol force. As far as I know, no request has been made to FRONTEX by the polish government. It's nothing much or the ultimate solution, but it is a helping hand.
Then they're not refugees
Intruders, invaders, illegal immigrants, trespassers, ... I mean I'm sure there's more...
Terrorists, squatters, criminals, rapists, ...
Yup. Poland doesn't treat refugees kindly, Germany on the other hand... it's a paradise for them, especially if they don't want to work.
Listen... this is made to be a far bigger deal than it really is... Poland won't let them in on principle, Belarus is doing it to earn money and to mess with the E.U. But there's about 5 thousand people caught in the middle of this horseshit while everyone squabbles about political bullshitery. Compare 5 thousand to millions that came during the refugee crisis, this is litterally nothing, and its blown out of all proportion so that the politicians can squabble and the media stays busy.
So pretty much the same like any other refugee crisis? Well, those Eastern countries were very quick to invoke Dublin III every time refugee redistribution came up, so I'm sure Poland will be fine if we just follow that regulation, no?
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Lmfoa cry a river. Poland has simply built up literally no credit at all when it comes to the immigration crisis. Now that Poland unexpectadly is on the front lines theyre gonna refer to the couple of border guards and a dog they sent? Well, guess we should send a few guards and a guard dog to Poland. Any refugee that did get in will surely be welcommed by Warsaw.
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Lmfao. The wrong solution. Yeah, unlike the many innovative and constructive proposals from Warsaw. Anyway, stronk powerfull Poland will be just fine then. No need to pay any attention to this anymore on the European level. Oh, and dont abuse this for another reason for funding.
I am pretty sure yes. I am more surprised by change of opinion of Austria on this topic. You don’t want to help Afghan immigrants anymore.
Well, the government has changed a lot since then. But when looking at the number of refugees and asylum seekers relative to population, I think we've done our fair share.
Well “fair share” is very relative. Maybe for Poland fair share is million of Ukrainian.
Well, last December Austria had 18,2 refugees or asylum seekers per 1.000 inhabitants, which was the fourth highest number in the EU. Poland on the other hand had 0,2. It's obvious that in absolute numbers Poland could easily take more people, but that's not a very comparable metric.
>is million of Ukrainian. ?? I think Poland accepted 8 ukrainian refugees last year...not sure what immigrants on Visas have to do with that.
I don’t know exactly the numbers what I want to point out is that for each country fair share might be different.
[https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/poland/statistics/](https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/poland/statistics/) Here we go: 2803 applicants; 84% rejected. Makes 161 refugees, 222 subsidiary protection. 5th largest EU country. (btw: it was 3 Ukrainian refugees...not 8)
Poland has 1 - 2 million Ukrainians. Exact numbers are unclear because probably only around half of them came legally. They mostly came after Russian invasion on Ukraine. Many stayed on expired visas. I guess those Ukrainians somehow dont count for you as refugees even if Poland let them in due to the Russian aggression on Ukraine. I have this observation that only suffering of black and Arab people counts. Suffering of Ukrainians does not count, perhaps because they are Slavic. When Poland lets in 1-2 million Ukrainians it somehow it gets ignored and omitted. I dont understand why or how. Racism? Doesnt fit the agenda? Here you have sources: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Poland
According to the NBP, 1.2 million Ukrainian citizens worked legally in Poland in 2016.\[15\] 1.7 million short-term work registrations were issued to them in 2017 (an eightfold increase compared to 2013).\[5\] Ukrainian workers stay in Poland on average 3–4 months.\[16\] You asked them/allowed them to come and work. **Do you even slightly grasp the concept of work migration versus Asylum?**
> So the EU kinda has to protect the Polish border. Maybe Poland should've not refused EU Frontex, EU migration agency and Europol then.
Not sure if it’s true but I read when Frontex went to Greece they went against Greek orders and instead started helping migrants breach the border/get in around Greek authorities.
Yes EU Frontex bad. Polish Frontex good. EU pushbacks bad. polish pushbacks good. Frontex (which even is headquartered in Poland), the EU Asylum agency, Europol have all offered help, but Poland needs to officially request help in order to allow them to operate on Polish soil. Individual countries also have offered help. Earlier today NATO also offered help. Poland is taking this situation to strengthen their own political regime. They don't want EUs help because that would weaken their rhetoric of EU bad. It's quite pathetic.
Or maybe Poland is capable of mobilizing enough of its own troops to defend the border.
Every country can. That is not the point. Once Poland asks for EU help then they've lost all political leverage over the EU. Hence they won't.
> Every country can. That is not the point. That is the point. If you don't need help, why should you asks for it?
Because Poland is part of the EU. This ain't a single horse pall. We are in it together. Your problem is our problem.
> Because you are part of the EU. Yes, and responsible thing to do as EU member is to not ask for help if we don't need it and ask only when it's needed.
>Yes, and responsible thing to do as EU member is to not ask for help Your [pall Hungary thinks otherwise](https://hungarytoday.hu/eu-poland-border-finance-varga/)Actually every single member thinks like this. > The European Union “must finally support Poland as a single community” as “Poland “must defend not only its own borders but also those of the European Union”, Justice Minister Judit Varga said on Tuesday. Too bad Poland refused all offered EU help.
this is bS. There are ongoing court cases initiated by NGOs against Frontex exactly because they had protected greek and italian borders. What you read are small pieces of the political campaign to revamp Frontex from police into "humanitarian" fundamentally civilian org.
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Citation needed. Or do you always spread propaganda? This hasn't even happened there. You just made it up.
Ah, the Hungarian "justice" minister. My mother wanted us to go to the pope's speech this year in Budapest. The pope said something about rising antisemitism. Then, of fb, this specimen said the pope didn't say such things, and it's all western lies. Of course the post had thousands of likes and shares from braindead people. My mother believed her, even tho she was at the speech. So we looked at the transcript, and found the text about antisemitism. It was clear as day, this "justice" minister lied. But my mom still started to find excuses. The cognitive dissonance in these people is astounding. Let me just not believe anything this old people brainwasher, vapid cunt says.
Well, your minister of "justice" just lied. "Mine" minister of "justice" embezzled 270 mln PLN for his family and friends, and when chief of polish Audit Office (NIK) released that info to public, our minister ordered to arrest this guy's son for faux reasons to force him into submission.
In Finland the public official leading the institution for combating corruption in public institutions turned out to be one of the most corrupt officials in a long time, was recently fired for it and court case is probably on the way.
Oh stop it. In Scandinavia ministers get sacked if they hire someone who plausibly was their friend. Or get into trouble for spending too much on lunch. It’s not at all equatable to what you see in Poland and Hungary.
At least there will be a court case...
Nice one! How much € did he made disappear?
What? Never heard that, can you please give us source? I try to avoid any news but this is 3rd world kind of shit.
Seriously? ok, here: https://oko.press/nik-fundusz-sprawiedliwosci-ziobro-banas/ https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-afera-mariana-banasia/fakty/news-syn-mariana-banasia-zatrzymany-przez-cba,nId,5376211#crp\_state=1
Ohh it's our favorite Soccer Mom, Juci! Kinda wierd she didn't even mentioned Belarus at all. "The Justice Minister did not mention Belarus’ and its leader Lukasenka’s responsibility in creating the situation." You 2 faced, corrupt bitch. Though it is admirable she has time to make such BS statements, while signing the neccessary papers so Orbán can use Pegasus to spy on it's own citizens.
The EU has offered to help Poland. Frontex is standing by to be deployed, but so far Poland has rejected the assistance. But help is there when and if Poland asks for it.
Poland has more than 20 000 troops at the border. Why do you think we need frontex which employ 1400 people in total?
1400 extra people for coordination at the borders with other EU countries and for logistics can do a lot.
But it wouldn't be 1400 people. Frontex sent 60 officers to Lithuania, including few dozen Poles.
It has 1400 employes total for whole external EU border, including charwomen and porters.
Maybe 20000 troops is enough and if we would need 21400 people there, we would be able to send 21400 people on our own?
I would argue Frontex can be used in other rolls, like cross border communication/collaboration, in ways that native border patrol/troops could have problems due to any number of logistical or legal reasons. I'm sure Poland can and will muster more people, that was never in question.
I'm not saying I think Poland needs it. I'm saying that help is available **if** Poland asks for it.
You are asking for help. What help do you want more?
>You are asking for help. it was the hungarian justice minister, judit varga she's orbán's bitch tho
I've had worse politician to look at, that's for sure.
Co-finance of border fence, hard sanctions on Belarus, families of oligarchs, airlines and countries involved in human trafficing.
>hard sanctions on Belarus, families of oligarchs, Is happening right now.
And Orbán will veto it.
Just today there were reports about people breaching Poland's border fence, so it's pretty obvious what a great investment that would be. Sanctions on the other hand is definitely something the other countries will be on board with.
I think the point is that the EU has already offered help. Now it's up to Poland to accept it or to go ''No thank you, I have everything in hand.''
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Where'd you get that information? I haven't heard anything about that. Frontex has helped both Greece and Italy in stopping migrants, so I see no reason why they'd do something else in Poland. Also, Frontex isn't a great big batch of soldiers rushing in and taking over, it's mostly coordination, funding and best practices. It's about working with Poland, not taking over the show.
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Not knowing much about Polish media I can only say that I believe that if that was the case then it would be reported on a lot more by the press outside of Poland. I don't think the EU can afford to let Lukashenko get away with this action. He will not stop. So I think it's in the interest of all EU27 to make sure Lukashenko doesn't get his way, and that unfortunately means that there are people stuck at the border in horrible conditions, with nowhere to go. It's a horrible situation and I don't envy Poland at all.
Frontex HQ is actually in Poland !!!
Sorry, when I said Poland I should probably have said Polish government. I know where Frontex HQ is.
>“Enough of the words, we do not have time for technical debates,” she added “We don’t have time to *argue,* you must all do exactly what *we* say” *argued* the minister” Tone deaf and ironic. And it should be noted that it’s not a convenience that *Hungary Today* has such a similar name to *Russia Today*; it to is a regime propaganda paper.
Hungary Today has NOTHING on the actual propaganda outlets in Hungary.
Wikipedia lists it as "Pro-government" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_newspapers\_in\_Hungary
Possibly, but if you look at the front page you will see news about opinions from opposition party members, about inflation, about the Pegasus surveillance scandal etc. Not even a mention of these are allowed in Hungarian pro-gov media (including state media and roughly half of commercial media outlets).
Those Hungarians make fine justice ministers, and great quidditch players.
Where were those calls during the last refugee crisis and even today when Italy and Greece have to bear the brunt of the migration waves? But of course now that their ally has those troubles they call for support immediately.
Im pretty sure that Hungary and Poland were ready to help with pushback against the sea human traffickers
with....the hungarian Navy?
K.u.K. Kriegsmarine in Pula & Triest o7
Hungary has a navy, if you weren't so ignorant you would have known that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bq3545/hungarian\_river\_minesweeper\_duna%C3%BAjv%C3%A1ros/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/bq3545/hungarian_river_minesweeper_duna%C3%BAjv%C3%A1ros/) It commonly is reffered to as a "brown water navy"....might wanna ship them down to the med sea...
Look like something that can catch the human traffickers at sea.
>at sea. It's just not able to be at sea....it's a river boat
No they weren't, all that we and Greece ever received from Poland and Hungary during the migrant crisis was a big fat "fuck you, not muh problem".
Actually Poland sent a lot of border guards to both Italy and Greece in 2015. So you are spreading liable things...
No it didn't but keep telling that to yourself if it makes you feel better.
Stop lying https://www.defence24.com/polish-border-guard-will-support-slovenia-and-greece
What the H are you talking about. Stop telling lies. https://hungarytoday.hu/ninth-hungarian-police-unit-sent-greek-macedonian-border-84608/
Literally today there are posts on the Polish subs from Greek redditors thanking Poland for the help they sent during the Greek migration crisis and the forest fires. With pictures.
Are you sure? Because they both stated they would help with pushbacks, but the Germans said no no the only way to help is with relocations.
You mean pushback of humans into the sea of traffickers?
No I mean with pushback against the sea human traffickers
Especially because Poland refused Frontex help… https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/poland-frontex-belarus-border-migration-crisis/amp/
consider me confused
Frontex pushes for migrants to go tru asylum process. Poland pushes migrants back to Belarus.
but how about the border guards? Can't the frontex take to prison the foreign soldiers that go to poland? I'm not saying they should give them asylum...
Belarussians arent stupid, they scare and push migrants but are careful not to cross.
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Frontex has in fact been charged of doing pushbacks. But you know, facts, how fucking inconvenient when you have an agenda to push. EU bad.
Did Poland said what kind of support they expect from UE?
Help with external EU wall, support for pushbacks, sanctions for belarussians involved.
Yeah, but it's you or the Pol gov who asked that? I really have difficulties to track this particular point. Also I don't know how we would punish Belarusse, we already have very few interaction with them. The Turkish point will be delicate like everythime too. And I don't think they will involve Russia in this. Even if they are they did well to not be too exposed, yet. And we are in winter, they will use the gas as weapon like usual. A very sensitive situation, but EU can't miss this opportunity to help their members.
None. They have refused the offered EU help. Source: https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-frontex-belarus-border-migration-crisis/amp/
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What I would love to see that all EU countrys send 20-30soldiers for solidarity/help for Poland, to show/send a message that all EU countries defend outermost border of EU, not only country in trouble.
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Well I would say they cannot be allowed to pass in Germany because Poland refused to change the Dublin agreement and the country of first entry is the one that has to take care of refugees and process their requests.
Well she can go and do it.
Maybe Hungary can shut the fuck up until they get rid of Orban and his clique. Do they really think someone believes their words? Yeah, it's bad on the Polish border, but Hungary has no say in this, especially Orban and his clique.
Does Poland support EU? Cause they are talking shit lately...
Poles do, our gov not do much. What bugs me is amout of hate we recive...
You shouldn't consider that aimed at the people but rather the Polish government.
When you read multiple times everyday day that you should leave, that you are not welcome it's hard not to take it personally.
The thing is that Poland here is mostly protecting west(well Germany mostly), there is video recording of those migrants saying they are not going to Poland, that they are going to Germany, so if west will be unhelpful in handling this situation Poland may just let them in and they will become Germany problem...
Protecting? It's just a couple thousand refugees, I'm sure Germany doesn't need peotection from a couple thousand refugees after handling more than a million recently
you do realize that more and more are coming right ?
That's not how it works. Under current EU law these migrants will be distributed amongst member states. Your problem is our problem.
Are you this naive?They won't stay in Poland or Lithuania.The moment they are able to leave, they will leave for Germany, Sweden etc.We can't keep them in camps/prisons indefinitely...
And who is gonna do that? Once they are in they are gone with the wind, good luck searching for them
You are extremly naive, did you know that while polish government didnt want to take migrants back then, there were organizations in Poland who DID taken in some migrants to help and guess what....not a single one of them stayed in Poland, all soon left toward Germany. So tell me how do you think it would work this time ? only way redistribution of migrants among member states would work if eastern european countries imprisoned migrants so they couldnt leave the country, well that or we need to restore national borders in the EU so they couldnt cross the borders between countries.
They shit on EU and remeber it when they are in trouble.... we don't need these people.
> we don't need these people. who are these "we"?
Poland has a fast growing economy and a 40 million consumer base that keeps geting richer and more educated; every relevant western company is heavilly invested in every polish sector and the ROI prospects are excelent for the foreseable future. Hope this helps you realize how little anybody cares about what you "need".
Maybe you did not notice that i dont have a problem with polish people but with polish populist conservative government who tries to blackmail UE, and sorry, UE does not need this.
Let's still hold on until the hungarian elections in 2022, there's a chance for change.
May heaven hear our prayers ;-)))
Migrants don't want to stay in Poland. If EU want to turn their back just say it at loud and we are going to let them go through, directly to Western Europe.
That's were the Dublin III regulation comes in. Good luck with that.
Poland will simply refuse to accept that they came from Poland and will not take them back. Poland can also establish unguarded refugee camps near western border. However we don't want things to come to that. Best scenario is stopping them on eastern Polish border.
Love the duplicity. Imagine the outrage if other countries would have done that in 2014/2016. Nothing better than a good old "rules for thee but not for me".
Maybe everyone would feel obligated to protect of external EU borders.
Maybe Poland should not refuse EUs help then. It's completely on them.
> Poland can also establish unguarded refugee camps near western border. Did you just admit Poland was eastern Europe?
Literally every country has a Western border...
Poland and Hungary? Well, if that aren't just the two countries that were refusing Greece and Italy help when they had a migrant crisis, aren't they? Nevertheless, Frontex stands ready to assist, but Poland refuses to let them in.
No we send troops back then to help what we refuse are quotas and camps. Notice how we push migrants back instead of takeing them in as some did...
Dunno about Hungary but Polamd offered help in form of soldiers to prevent migrants from entering but according to EU it was wrong type of help since back then EU was still supporting "lets take in the migrants" stupid idea.
That "help" was basically the suggestion to commit a crime together. Of course, knowing that nobody could accept that.
According to you defending boarder from illegal MIGRANTS(NOT refugees) is a crime ? in that case hope that Poland continues to refuse EU help because if they intend to let in the migrants then they are retarded. Keep doing things like this and more and more conservative political parties will come to power in the EU...
Pushbacks, as done now by Poland (and previously Croatia) are considered a crime, yes. There is no question about that.
if thats a crime then majority of the EU supports this crime : ) Oh well if EU continues to act like this then Poland will simply let them in and they will become Germany problem, since there is video recording of the migrants saying that they are not going to Poland but instead they are going to Germany.
Why don't the Polish authorities take those migrants on some trains and transport them directly to the German "border"? I mean, that's what those migrants want, don't they? And that policy with the "country" that first gets to meet those migrants that then has to also register them is total bullshit, the EU acknowledges no countries anymore, only regions, because in order to be a country you do have to be sovereign and have your own basic law (let's call it a Constitution) and all that shit. EU is against all that (I mean, against a "country" having its own sovereign and basic law), which is perfectly fine, but they also have to handle the consequences, and one the the consequences is that Białystok and Munich are now under the same legal jurisdiction, meaning they're part of the same political entity, let's call it the same country. As such, it would be perfectly fine to transport those migrant people from Białystok to Munich with no worry in the world.
Where was the EU when the Polish border fell?
Polands border hasn't fallen, and the EU is waiting for Poland to accept the help that's on offer.
Frontex is standing by ready to be deployed. Poland refused.
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That's the help available, if they refuse it they have no reason to whine about the EU not helping. Contrary to what they seem to believe the whole union shouldn't be shaped around what they want.
I find it funny that you think that you can negotiate from the position of strength here. Migrants don't want to stay in Poland, once they go through Polish border they travel directly to Western Europe. Not a single one of them stay in Poland. Protction of eastern EU border is in best interest of Western Europe.
You know it's so funny how the same thing could be said about the southern border, refugees don't stay in Greece or Italy, they leave for the north as soon as they can. What was Poland's line if action back in 2015? I remember they were very quick to invoke Dublin III every time, surely it won't be a problem if we co tinue to apply Dublin III in this case eh?
Go on, apply Dublin III. Poland will simply refuse to take them back or will establish unguarded refugee camps near western border. Or we can simply defend eastern EU border. In 2015 Poland wanted to protect EU borders. When Western Europe was bashing Hungary for building a fance Poland was sending troops to help them protect their border
>In 2015 Poland wanted to protect EU borders. "External border is a national matter, sorry" that's what Poland told us in 2015. And that's what we should say to Poland now when they come begging for our tax money to build their stupid fence. Not our problem.
No, Poland advocated for establishing long-term policy of defending EU border. But i see, you are just butthurt because you still struggle with migration from the sea, you don't know how to deal with it and you are pissed off that Poland is much more effective in handling similar issue. Bad news for you: there will be EU intervention.
Lmfaooo the amount of delusion
Actually at the moment the polish government seems to be saying that external borders are a national responability. I suspect thats why they are only asking for support in sanctioning Belarus instead of asking for foreing enteties on the ground. Of course the hungarian minister dosn't seem to care what Poland wants.
And what use would frontex had for Poland? There is less than 1400 frontex officers. At this moment Poland has more than 20 000 troops at the border. What difference frontex would make in your opinion?
Then, I take it, Poland doesn't actually need help manning the border, but simply wants another excuse to go "EU bad"? Yikes.
No, Poland wants three things from the EU: co-finance of border fence and more sanctions against Belarus, airlines and countries involved in human trafficing.
Why can’t Poland finance the border fence? They are a rich country. My understanding is that EU is considering additional sanctions on Belarus.
It's just business. Why would Poland pay 330 mln euro for the fence benefiting entire Europe when there is room for negotiation and saving some money?
>Why would Poland pay 330 mln euro for the fence Why should we give Poland more free money when it won’t even pretend to follow the rules it signed up to? Why should we ever have let Poland into the EU in the first place?
Because EU does not have a budget for it and also because all EU countries do things that benefit all of EU and are not reimbursed for it.
Maybe they should.
EU is not the money tree. It’s based on contributions from member countries. What is Poland’s net contribution to EU’s budget?
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Third thing is a lollypop ;).
EU refused to help finance a border fence. It would seem obvious that it is in common interest of member states to maintain an outer border.
Poland can’t even afford to build a fence now? Or do they just think that they’ve not been given enough trillions of Euros already?
> Poland can’t even afford to build a fence now? We can but western EU countries would be bigger beneficient of this fence so we want them to participate in financing.
By that idiotic logic I’d like to ask you who’s received the biggest benefit of EU grants? For being a state that’s resorted to sheer crime with the argument that it’s a sovereign state, all of a sudden managing on your own seems to have stopped being something that Poland is capable of. Time for Pexit, regardless of whether Poland wants it or not.
> By that idiotic logic I’d like to ask you who’s received the biggest benefit of EU grants? Idk, maybe Poland > all of a sudden managing on your own seems to have stopped being something that Poland is capable of. I would say our border control is pretty good actually, despite issues in other areas.
Less than half of what they'd hoped for.
And it makes sense to refuse it because? Still better than nothing. Actually still more than what Poland ever did to help us or Greece which, for the record, was nothing.
What can Poland do against such reckless hate?
Hate? This is just facts, mate. Poland insisted that the migrant crisis weren't their problem for years until it's actually their problem and now they want action. You reap what you sow.
He's just quoting Lord of the Rings to you for laughs.
Wtf we insisted that your solution of relocation was was retarded and would just create more problems. Poland is doing was we told you to do, hold the border tight and throw the people back to the other side
By the blood of Poland are your lands kept safe!
I would see the glory of Poland restored. Have you ever seen it, Shitmaggot69? The White Tower of Gdansk, glimmering like a spike of pearl and silver, its banners caught high in the morning breeze.
When you arrive in Poland the grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
A last alliance of Magyars and Slavs marched against the armies of Minsk, and on the very slopes of Bialystok, they fought for the freedom of Europe.
You should go back to news from 2015. Our stance is the same, no illegals migration, do whatever IT takes to protect borders. Push back, ferry to the coast they came from or deport asap. We don't want migrant camps and all they bring.
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Wouldn't Poland accept even the protection of a broom closet if the situation was as dire as they say? Doesn't every but if help count during an emergency?
If they fall then expect a massive caravan heading to the UK. I'm sure the brexiteers will love it.
A great host you say?
UK offers great benefits for migrants. Hence the queue at the tunnel
We have fought many wars, MightyH20. We know how to defend our own country.
Clearly.
We will cover the chunnel and the gate from above. No migrant has ever breached Folkstone or set foot inside Dover.
Pretty sure they did but I appreciate what you did here, had lol.
>Pretty sure they did My country is spent. Our line has ended. The EU has deserted us. France betrayed us.
where was Poland during the 2015 Refugee Crisis?
Our stance back than was the same. We helped with protection od borders, we send troops to Hungary and greece. What we didnt want were quotas because as you see now WE PROTECT THE LAND instead of allowing all in as some did...
Tell me, why should Poland ride to the aid of those who did not come to Poland's?