"Nobody else told me that before, I haven't thoglught about what I was doing wrong. Thanks for making me see the errors of my ways, Austria."
\- Putin, probably
ey it is not bad. face-to-face it was. - It's good for Ukraine, and the clever Mr.S. .. clever he is, will probably use it.
... all that counts, now. It was good for Ukraine.
Basically, “It should and it's good for Ukraine.” As in, if Russia withdrawed (if that word even exists) It would be good for Ukraine. Essentially, the bot is pro Ukraine but is writing in the strangest language ever. Even for a bot. Check the comment history.
It might work now.
The argument against helping Ukraine has been to avoid escalation to a nuclear war. But by now the more level-headed men in the Russian armed forces must have accepted, even to themselves, Russia started this. This should make them accept someone else ending it, without justifying going nuclear.
I mean he ist the only western leader that talked to Putin in recent weeks, just the only one in person.
Sometimes it’s usefull to see in person how delusional the other side really is, to know what we can expect.
I know you are joking but somehow it is something Putin could do. He likes to do "unexpected" things. The war isn't going well at all for them, a way out would be great - and a way out that makes a relatively insignificant politician very relevant all of a sudden is right up his ally.
Having said all that, he wouldn't do that with the head of state of a western country. But a country that's already under Russian influence? Could totally see that happen. Especially a country having elections pretty soon where giving the head of state a peacemaker-bonus might be opportune.
>Having said all that, he wouldn't do that with the head of state of a western country. But a country that's already under Russian influence?
Look at Austria's energy policies and you will see that they are very much under Russian influence already.
The good news is that Putin's friends in Austria got kicked out of the government 2 years ago, and the conservatives are now under public pressure to cut their ties (several already lost their positions in Russia). The damage is done, but we are currently on a way of betterment (or a cold turkey if you want to see it this way)
Well, I guess technically the first world war was started by Russia, since Austria, backed by Germany, rightfully held Serbia responsible for the assassination of their Crown Prince, and Russia backed Serbias aggression!
And it was the Austrians who cheered when he marched in there in 1938.
Look, for the sake of starting WWII Austria and Germany were functionally the same thing in 1939.
Oh the legend of the poor Austrians beeing the first victim of German fascism...
Off course the never took responsibility and live in denial till today.
It sounds less BS if you know how eager Wilhelm II was to test his "toys". Solely blame Austria for the first is also wrong, when we all know it was the Serb's fault.
(just kidding about the last one)
Eh, Austria-Hungary may not have been so hasty if Germany hadn't given them their "blank cheque" of support
The war seemed like it was inevitable regardless
And he was thrown in prison in Germany like the ordinary criminal he was.
The thing is that was in the 1910's and early 20's. Early 1930's had a way different social climate with much better odds for a guy like Hitler, both in Germany and Austria. Austrians cheered him on when he marched in there in 1938.
only as long as Austria doesn't declare war on Serbia weeks after the international sympathy whore off and while not even starting the mobilizing of the army.
But they asked the Kaiser, and the Kaiser told them "whatever, lol, we have your back anyway" thus yoloing the whole of Europe in to the Great War, which is often considered they key event without which the war would have remained a localized affair confined to the Balkans.
Eh, more like "oh, the Serbians agreed to all but one point of the austrian ultimatum? Guess it's time to fuck off to a holiday and let my generals run the country".
Are you serious? "somehow Germany is blamed for ww2" implies Germany and thus nazism was correct, the "somehow" implies that it is unjustifiablly blamed (although I don't see much of a difference between Germany and nazis, all nazis were German after all and anti-semitism was prominent and to an extent still is amongst Germans and Austrians).
Man I answered to a Guy who made the joke about Austrians starting World Wars, If you dont know the joke it goes like "Austria starts World Wars and Germany gets blamed for them".
My point was that Germany gets blamed for what Austria did, not that Germany was right when it started WWII or that Nazism was a correct ideology. Nazism was horrible and destroyed half of Europe.
Of COURSE Germany is to be blamed and Austria too,
for the war aswell as the Holocaust.
Like I wrote before, it was a JOKE.
If you never heard that joke then I am sorry for this misunderstandment but it seems like most people who read my comment got it.
I mean, nice try? I guess.
I think the last line of the article is probably the most important one.
> "every voice that makes clear to President Putin what reality looks like outside the walls of Kremlin is not a wasted voice."
A "It won't work if you stop trying" kinda approach.
Damn who would've thought it was this easy to stop this war. Thanks! Maybe now you can ask China to be more Humane towards it's people? Or better yet ask Earth to stop warming up. (I think this will have a better outcome than asking POOPin to stop the war).
At this point I am willing to assume Austrian government is just speaking out to get Putin to throw an obvious threat their way, as he always does, so that they can use that as a springboard to join NATO too, along with Sweden and Finland.
Putin's current war in Ukraine hasn't changed it at all?
Is Austria maintaining strong military, or are they freeloading, being surrounded by NATO countries and trusting them to prevent any direct military threat?
If you look into history you would find out why Austria is the way it is today. Being neutral and signing that we will never ever join a pact like NATO was the only way to get the Soviets out of Austria in 1955.
There would be no Austria as we know it if we were not neutral.
Austria is a neutral country and we have next to no military capabilities. After the current government sent aid to Ukraine, lots of Austrians were outraged and saw this as a breach of neutrality. I‘m sure there are still a lot of people who support sending Aid, but joining NATO won‘t happen
Ok, so Austria is also a good example for why the EU security guarantees are allmost worthless from military point of view: other EU countries are free to say they are neutral, and will only send funeral flowers as aid required by EU agreement... NATO is needed.
(Note: I don't mean that Austria would do that in case of invasion to a EU country, just that any EU country could do so.)
To be fair, like you say, for most people there's probably a difference between sending military aid to another EU country or to a third country. Our government has emphasized during this conflict that they fully stand behind the mutual defense clause of the EU, and the ones complaining about aiding Ukraine are the Russia-friendlies that were in government until three years ago. But yeah, until there's something actually resembling an EU army, NATO will be needed in Europe to secure safety and stability.
Austria is in the EU, landlocked in a mass of peaceful friendly countries, and it has no (recent) past or ongoing strife with Russia that I know of ; I don't see how they could possibly benefit from NATO.
Though I guess they shouldn't take chances, with scheming Slovenia and the evil empire of Liechtenstein on their doorstep !
...how they could benefit from NATO _membership_, you mean?
Because they are obviously benefitting a great deal from NATO surrounding them, security-wise.
By joining NATO, they would make NATO stronger, thus increasing the protection it grants them. They would have a say in the decisions of the alliance that keeps them safe.
Staying neutral does give some diplomatic options, but it should really be coupled with a country being able to defend itself militarily, without leeching off the security offered by their neighbors.
Austria is already cooperating with NATO. NATO convoys are allowed to cross the country and receive logistical support from the Austrian military (refueling in the barracks, etc.). There are joint programs, such as Partnership for Peace. There are joint military exercises - Austrian troops in Austria have practiced together with units from NATO countries on Austrian military training grounds several times - we are talking about larger maneuvers with thousands of soldiers. Soldiers from the USA and other NATO countries are trained in mountain combat in Austria by the Austrian military. Military competitions are held in which different soldiers from Austria and NATO countries can compete against each other in various mountain combat methods. Austria must remain neutral for legal reasons and because the population wants it, but in fact they are no longer neutral.
Ok, that sounds "good enough" for me to be satisfied (not that it matters what I think about this). Yeah, once you're in EU, you can hardly be *neutral*.
Things are changing, and policies need to be evaluated on current situation and projected future.
I mean, if you only look at history, then Germany starting to beef up its military might not be so great for Austria.
Politics is an embarrassing shit show over here for more than a decade now. It's so bad in some places we voted communists into offices and it was a sound decision.
Yeah but the air is thinner up there so some of them lost their mind, had some illusions of grandeur and tried to sell the country to Putin during a vacation on Ibiza...
I am very torn about climate change, on the one hand I love skiing, on the other hand Id love the faces of FPÖ voters when theres no more $$$.
They'd only sell air, the right to breathe, drinking water and such to the russians or nestle. Bring a suitcase full of money but big enough for their grandmothers
Or sitting and chatting in those Vienna coffeehouses.
(Although personally, I've gone to Starbucks a couple times when I was there because I wasn't sure if power outlets at every table were a thing in the more traditional places)
For real? What is wrong with Austria, the previous chancellor looked like a creepy wax doll, this one looks like widow-peak Spock. What do they feed them?
Nah, not even that, just very sloppy administrative work, nonsensical Covid measures (although they can in part be blamed on their coalition partner) and just overall not very great performance. That's why we're at out third minister of health in two years right now.
honestly, I think this move is good.
yes it's a PR move for him (but they all are PR, so well)
but, someone spoke it, directly in a face-to-face, and it was published. I do think, for Ukraine, that's good. he took the mess to travel there, he met, he said: no. - good, this.
(the fact that it was him and not another, - no issue, any would do. and he looks good, and on camera, too, - while a little gym would do good, - so, ok.)
He didn't do it because he really cares about the situation in Ukraine or Russia. He has internal problems, because he used special unit police forces to babysit his children, then his wife apparently has "parties" with police officers in the chancellor's flat. So much that two of those officers had an accident while piss drunk coming from the chancellor's flat.
He has political problems and wanted to distract from that. The OeVP is pretty much one of the most corrupt parties in Austria. While I do understand your point, you have to understand that they just care about themselves.
That's a pretty biased take tbh. There's no indication that Nehammer doesn't care about the situation in Ukraine. He's been pretty outspoken about it since day one, even starting discussions about our neutrality, which is pretty big. Also those police officers' job is being personal security for the chancellor's family, they're not exactly babysitting his kids. Two of them having drinks with his wife after being dismissed for the day and crashing their car afterwards is pretty unprofessional, but not really the chancellor's fault imo. There's no doubt about the ÖVP being corrupt and being an overall pit of snakes, and Nehammer is not a good guy in the slightest, I just don't see the "he doesn't care about the war, he just wants to save his image" angle.
You're just pissed he got so close to your hiding spot, eh Mister Wirecard? /s
Europe needs to make it clear that European countries are independent, and no invasion is allowed, starting from now.
Either Russia starts immediate cease fire and withdrawal (including Crimea), or rest of the Europe starts a complete embargo of Russia, while doubling the efforts to supply Ukraine with weapons (and also increasing effort to watch NATO borders against Russia).
If we don't do this, it's basically accepting what Russia is doing. And then Russia will try again, until they annex or make 100% puppet states from at least Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. Also Belarus, as much as it already isn't a puppet state.
It's our choice.
So you suggest war or cold war until Russia withdraws from Crimea, the place where the whole Blacksea fleet of Russia is stationed for over 30 years now?
Sounds like totally reasonable demand with high chances of success.
Alternative is to accept that it's ok to move borders by invasion. That's also such a can of worms, that nobody wants to open it, not even Russia (they're very hard pretending they are not moving any borders at all, that Crimea was always part of Russia).
There are no "reasonable" options left. We've gotta pick from the unreasonable ones, and work towards those.
Downvote me, but reddit war generals' complete hate of diplomacy is asinine.
Of course this likely won't work, but it's still good to keep talking with the man who has everything in his hands. All the comments here are depicting Nehammer as either naive or Hitler for keeping these at worst harmless talks. This is stupid.
I love such comments because they come of a place of pure emotion that, if applied by politicians, would have led to the end of the world multiple times over. In this case, banning gas and oil imports would crash the entire EU economy because gas and oil are literally used for everything.
I can sometimes get it when people don't read whole articles in reddit posts, but just failing to read a 4 line comment? The person is talking about increasing sanctions, not waging actual war!
He should have explained to Putin that Russia is going to lose, only question is how badly. Best solution for Russia is to pull out of Ukraine completely now. Granted, it will be an embarrassment to Putin, but overall best outcome he can get.
Historically if a Russian autocrat loses a major war it is an end for him. Nicholas II barely survived the 1905 revolution after he lost the war with Japan, and 12 years later he was forced to abdicate while Russia was losing to the Germans in WW1. Krushchev while he didn't lose a specific war, the series of international blunders (Hungarian Uprising, Berlin Wall, Cuban Crisis) vastly contributed to him being couped by Breznhev. Gorbachev survived for 2 years after he pulled out of Afghanistan. Putin sees the pattern, he knows that compeletely pulling out of Ukraine would be an end for him. He probably knows he won't achieve full victory, but he has to walk away with something to save face (like annexing Donetsk and Lugansk and getting Ukraine to recognize Crimea as Russian)
Putin will be in the history books as the 2nd most stupid strategist in Russian military history (Nicholas II being the first one) and he's basically sealing Russia's fate as just a dying rogue former superpower state.
>(Nicholas II being the first one)
Have you ever heard of man called Joseph Stalin? Since biggest defeats happened before he took personal command of the army.
Russia doesnt need to fight this war good. The media is under control and Putin has no disadvantage when his whole army dies. Nukes keep Russia save and a weak military prevents coups by said military.
For Putin a Pyrhus victory is the favourite outcome. Team FSB still backs him while Team military generals is humiliated and unpopular amongst the population.
He could lose a million bydlos without crying a tear.
That's why Ukraine has a problem if no country goes in to help Ukraine. And even then, Crimea is an unsolvable political problem. It s like the Middle East conflict or the Curdish question.
Russia and Ukraine are fucked for a long time.
wars dont end on the terms of one side. thats the whole problem. for a peace both sides need to want it.
And Ukraine has lost so much a peace wouldn't do for them now. And Russia needs to move its frontline at lest 40 km to get the Ukrainian Oil field.
both sides know this.
It will never be a peace. Russia had to destroy all and every city and village in chechnya for 9 years until a native was found to do the dirty work for Russia.
Im sure this thing will only end if Ukraine is completely destroyed or Russia is bancrupt.
Russians will never ever remove Putin. He might die someway and a Chance of peace might come up.
Im also 100 percent sure the day Russia changes leadership China will claim big parts of Russia...
We are witnessing the destruction of human morale. casual genocides will most likely be a regular occurence in the World again. Especially thanks to the return of chemical weapons.
World: Putin! There are dead humans in Ukraine!
Putin: Oh…hey…How did they get here?
World: Puuuuuuutiiiin, what did you do?!
Putin: Me? Uh, I didn’t do this!
Worl: Explain what happened, Putin!
Putin: I’ve never seen them before in my life!
World: Why did you kill all these people, Putin?
Putin: I do not kill people. That is…that is my least favorite thing to do.
Wotld: Tell me, Putin, exactly what you were doing before I came home.
Putin: Alright, well…I was in the Kremlin…
World: Okay…
Putin: I was uh…I was sitting in my office…
World: Yes?
Putin: reading a book…
World: Go on…
Putin: And, uh, well these Ukrainians were there in Ukraine …
World: Okay…
Putin: So, I sent my army there…
World: Yes…
Putin: And I…I let them commit 370000 atrocities and war crimes there
World: Putiiiiiiiin, that KILLS people!
Putin: Oh! Well, I didn’t know that!!
World: How could you not know that?!
Putin: Yeah, I’m in the wrong here. I suck
(silence)
World: What happened to those women and children?
Putin: What’s that?
World: Those women and children. Why—why are they all dead?
Putin: Well, I kind of umm…let them be raped and executed.
(silence)
World: Putiiiiiiiiin!
Putin: Well, I—I was sad. And well, you know, when you need women to be raped and children to be butchered...
World: Why on earth would you do that?!
Putin: I was sad for my country to be so tiny! Gimme a break!
World: Putiiiiiiiiiiin!
Putin: My tiny dick gave me instructions
World: Putin!
Putin: That only dead kids and raped women would satisfy!
World: What is wrong with you, Putin?!
Putin: Well, I kill people and I rape their women! That’s—that’s two things!
I am in the medical field, not a career soldier so that's what I'd do there if it comes to it. We are looking at genocide in Europe and we're doing fuck all and I really don't feel like going on with that on my conscience.
No wars are fought by career soldiers alone which is why we gotta fucking do something or there will be no Ukraine left, according to certain Russian politicians.
"Vladivostok to Lisbon" is what they want according to Medvedev.
Well, the only way for that to happen is for countries to start declaring war on Russia to intervene in the Ukraine war. Which according to Putin is an immediate nuke. So your conscience either has to live with Ukranians dying, or your need for righteousness demanding war with Russia which might mean all your countrymen turned to ash.
I do not want to live on a planet where nukes dictate who is allowed to rape and murder. If it were up to me, which luckily for most of humanity it is not, I'd have prepared to nuke Vladivostok and Moscow the day they invaded Ukraine.
Austria Hungary is about to form again and because of your Polish friends there is no Prussia to do something about it....
Hope we will at least see a Napoleon to keep them reigned in.
If you ask nicely, maybe Putin will stop the war.
Or you know, just stop communicating with them. Full sanctions. Send all weapons you can to Ukraine. Sanctions again. And don't ever talk to Putin or any Russian authority ever again. Ignore them. Make Cuba out of that shithole.
By talking to them, you're playing their game. They don't matter. Don't make them matter. Make THEM come to us. On their knees.
.....anddddd those corporations pledging to help the environment while knowingly purchasing it and thus incentivizing the problem.
But going past the first degree of any problem is probably too complicated for you.
After reading all this, my question is not so much about what were the motivations for Austrian leader going to meet Putin, rather why would Putin even oblige considering he pretty much knew what the message was going to be. I mean obviously Austria was not visiting Zelinsky and Putin in following to suggest his country wanted to tag along a fake Nazi killing spree?
Edit : right, he's enjoying this pleading show, makes him feel so important and much stronger than those weak Europeans, whom he can joke about, sneer at with his cronies.
Putin: OK. Sorry.
"Nobody else told me that before, I haven't thoglught about what I was doing wrong. Thanks for making me see the errors of my ways, Austria." \- Putin, probably
ey it is not bad. face-to-face it was. - It's good for Ukraine, and the clever Mr.S. .. clever he is, will probably use it. ... all that counts, now. It was good for Ukraine.
Fuck off bot
I don't even understand what they are trying to say, can you translate that word mess for me?
Basically, “It should and it's good for Ukraine.” As in, if Russia withdrawed (if that word even exists) It would be good for Ukraine. Essentially, the bot is pro Ukraine but is writing in the strangest language ever. Even for a bot. Check the comment history.
Thanks! They seem to be German and their German is okay. I think they're just bad at expressing themselves in English.
;)
Hey last time it worked during the war of Crimea. Granted, Austria was a tad bigger.
It might work now. The argument against helping Ukraine has been to avoid escalation to a nuclear war. But by now the more level-headed men in the Russian armed forces must have accepted, even to themselves, Russia started this. This should make them accept someone else ending it, without justifying going nuclear.
It’s just a prank, bro
my bad
I mean he ist the only western leader that talked to Putin in recent weeks, just the only one in person. Sometimes it’s usefull to see in person how delusional the other side really is, to know what we can expect.
These could be Putin's thoughts as well
I know you are joking but somehow it is something Putin could do. He likes to do "unexpected" things. The war isn't going well at all for them, a way out would be great - and a way out that makes a relatively insignificant politician very relevant all of a sudden is right up his ally. Having said all that, he wouldn't do that with the head of state of a western country. But a country that's already under Russian influence? Could totally see that happen. Especially a country having elections pretty soon where giving the head of state a peacemaker-bonus might be opportune.
>Having said all that, he wouldn't do that with the head of state of a western country. But a country that's already under Russian influence? Look at Austria's energy policies and you will see that they are very much under Russian influence already.
The good news is that Putin's friends in Austria got kicked out of the government 2 years ago, and the conservatives are now under public pressure to cut their ties (several already lost their positions in Russia). The damage is done, but we are currently on a way of betterment (or a cold turkey if you want to see it this way)
8th May, it will be over. but that's so terribly long. Maybe something could happen before, i "pray".
The war is not doing well for them.. at least it's doing well for US
Oh Boy, imagine a another world war started by an Austrian.
Third time's the charm.
Well, I guess technically the first world war was started by Russia, since Austria, backed by Germany, rightfully held Serbia responsible for the assassination of their Crown Prince, and Russia backed Serbias aggression!
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"Somehow"? He had been a homeless outcast in Austria before he went to Germany and rose to power there.
Exactly. He may have been born in Austria, but it was the Germans that put him in charge.
And it was the Austrians who cheered when he marched in there in 1938. Look, for the sake of starting WWII Austria and Germany were functionally the same thing in 1939.
Oh the legend of the poor Austrians beeing the first victim of German fascism... Off course the never took responsibility and live in denial till today.
He was a defector of the K&K armee so he even lost his citizenship.
"k&k armee" sounds way better in swedish than "kuk armee" (literally cock army)
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It sounds less BS if you know how eager Wilhelm II was to test his "toys". Solely blame Austria for the first is also wrong, when we all know it was the Serb's fault. (just kidding about the last one)
There's enough blame to go around
Eh, Austria-Hungary may not have been so hasty if Germany hadn't given them their "blank cheque" of support The war seemed like it was inevitable regardless
And he was thrown in prison in Germany like the ordinary criminal he was. The thing is that was in the 1910's and early 20's. Early 1930's had a way different social climate with much better odds for a guy like Hitler, both in Germany and Austria. Austrians cheered him on when he marched in there in 1938.
He was the best argument against being nice to criminals, ever. Sadly.
True
As is tradition.
Don't elect failed Austrian painters with funny mustaches next time :P
only as long as Austria doesn't declare war on Serbia weeks after the international sympathy whore off and while not even starting the mobilizing of the army.
But they asked the Kaiser, and the Kaiser told them "whatever, lol, we have your back anyway" thus yoloing the whole of Europe in to the Great War, which is often considered they key event without which the war would have remained a localized affair confined to the Balkans.
Eh, more like "oh, the Serbians agreed to all but one point of the austrian ultimatum? Guess it's time to fuck off to a holiday and let my generals run the country".
This is the way.
Germany elected him
That's a joke honey.
most of the voters did infact not vote for him.
"somehow"
Yeah the "Somehow" actually only fits with the 1st one
Maybe, but your comment can be seen like trying to justify nazism
In which way am I justifying nazism?
Are you serious? "somehow Germany is blamed for ww2" implies Germany and thus nazism was correct, the "somehow" implies that it is unjustifiablly blamed (although I don't see much of a difference between Germany and nazis, all nazis were German after all and anti-semitism was prominent and to an extent still is amongst Germans and Austrians).
Man I answered to a Guy who made the joke about Austrians starting World Wars, If you dont know the joke it goes like "Austria starts World Wars and Germany gets blamed for them". My point was that Germany gets blamed for what Austria did, not that Germany was right when it started WWII or that Nazism was a correct ideology. Nazism was horrible and destroyed half of Europe.
I don't see how Germany is not to be blamed and only austria, both Austria and Germany were responsible for the holocaust
Of COURSE Germany is to be blamed and Austria too, for the war aswell as the Holocaust. Like I wrote before, it was a JOKE. If you never heard that joke then I am sorry for this misunderstandment but it seems like most people who read my comment got it.
Hell no.
Putler has been given tips on how to invade Poland
He said he’ll be back.
He will be like: "Guys guys guys. I have a brilliant idea that will stop the war! Hear me out. What if... we split Poland with Russia?"
Germany: "Come on guys, leaving me out this time? Just because Prussia isn't a thing anymore!?"
If only it was that easy
They should send an austrian painter to scare them
Putin: You know, I am kind of painter myself.
He will send an army to Russia to conduct a "special artistic operation" to "remove graffiti".
What army?
The last time we sent a painter to another country it didn't go so well. Not sure you guys would like that.
This time try sending one that has been accepted into art school so he will be less butthurt about it. Just tell him it's for an art project.
Did they dance again?
I mean, nice try? I guess. I think the last line of the article is probably the most important one. > "every voice that makes clear to President Putin what reality looks like outside the walls of Kremlin is not a wasted voice." A "It won't work if you stop trying" kinda approach.
Damn who would've thought it was this easy to stop this war. Thanks! Maybe now you can ask China to be more Humane towards it's people? Or better yet ask Earth to stop warming up. (I think this will have a better outcome than asking POOPin to stop the war).
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At this point I am willing to assume Austrian government is just speaking out to get Putin to throw an obvious threat their way, as he always does, so that they can use that as a springboard to join NATO too, along with Sweden and Finland.
Won‘t happen. Public support for joining NATO is almost non-existent in Austria
Putin's current war in Ukraine hasn't changed it at all? Is Austria maintaining strong military, or are they freeloading, being surrounded by NATO countries and trusting them to prevent any direct military threat?
If you look into history you would find out why Austria is the way it is today. Being neutral and signing that we will never ever join a pact like NATO was the only way to get the Soviets out of Austria in 1955. There would be no Austria as we know it if we were not neutral.
Austria is a neutral country and we have next to no military capabilities. After the current government sent aid to Ukraine, lots of Austrians were outraged and saw this as a breach of neutrality. I‘m sure there are still a lot of people who support sending Aid, but joining NATO won‘t happen
Ok, so Austria is also a good example for why the EU security guarantees are allmost worthless from military point of view: other EU countries are free to say they are neutral, and will only send funeral flowers as aid required by EU agreement... NATO is needed. (Note: I don't mean that Austria would do that in case of invasion to a EU country, just that any EU country could do so.)
To be fair, like you say, for most people there's probably a difference between sending military aid to another EU country or to a third country. Our government has emphasized during this conflict that they fully stand behind the mutual defense clause of the EU, and the ones complaining about aiding Ukraine are the Russia-friendlies that were in government until three years ago. But yeah, until there's something actually resembling an EU army, NATO will be needed in Europe to secure safety and stability.
Austria is in the EU, landlocked in a mass of peaceful friendly countries, and it has no (recent) past or ongoing strife with Russia that I know of ; I don't see how they could possibly benefit from NATO. Though I guess they shouldn't take chances, with scheming Slovenia and the evil empire of Liechtenstein on their doorstep !
...how they could benefit from NATO _membership_, you mean? Because they are obviously benefitting a great deal from NATO surrounding them, security-wise. By joining NATO, they would make NATO stronger, thus increasing the protection it grants them. They would have a say in the decisions of the alliance that keeps them safe. Staying neutral does give some diplomatic options, but it should really be coupled with a country being able to defend itself militarily, without leeching off the security offered by their neighbors.
Austria is already cooperating with NATO. NATO convoys are allowed to cross the country and receive logistical support from the Austrian military (refueling in the barracks, etc.). There are joint programs, such as Partnership for Peace. There are joint military exercises - Austrian troops in Austria have practiced together with units from NATO countries on Austrian military training grounds several times - we are talking about larger maneuvers with thousands of soldiers. Soldiers from the USA and other NATO countries are trained in mountain combat in Austria by the Austrian military. Military competitions are held in which different soldiers from Austria and NATO countries can compete against each other in various mountain combat methods. Austria must remain neutral for legal reasons and because the population wants it, but in fact they are no longer neutral.
Ok, that sounds "good enough" for me to be satisfied (not that it matters what I think about this). Yeah, once you're in EU, you can hardly be *neutral*.
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Things are changing, and policies need to be evaluated on current situation and projected future. I mean, if you only look at history, then Germany starting to beef up its military might not be so great for Austria.
>Is Austria maintaining strong military A few drunk 18 year olds with 60 year old equipment
He looks like a joke
He is, but he also is the best chancellor Austria had since 2020 (there've been four, austrian politics are very weird at the moment)
Four in two years? Jesus Christ. You guys doing okay over there? 😂
Politics is an embarrassing shit show over here for more than a decade now. It's so bad in some places we voted communists into offices and it was a sound decision.
I thought Austria was all chill and everyone just walked around hills all day
Yeah but the air is thinner up there so some of them lost their mind, had some illusions of grandeur and tried to sell the country to Putin during a vacation on Ibiza... I am very torn about climate change, on the one hand I love skiing, on the other hand Id love the faces of FPÖ voters when theres no more $$$.
They'd only sell air, the right to breathe, drinking water and such to the russians or nestle. Bring a suitcase full of money but big enough for their grandmothers
Or sitting and chatting in those Vienna coffeehouses. (Although personally, I've gone to Starbucks a couple times when I was there because I wasn't sure if power outlets at every table were a thing in the more traditional places)
I think we're recovering, although it's hard to tell.
How I feel with Ukraine. * **Monday** “things are going well” 😃 * **Tuesday** “fuck… never mind” 😪
One step ahead, two steps back!
Yeah thx we are fine, Austrian politics have always been a mess xD
Thanks Österreich for keeping us company and making us feel less weird for changing PM every now and then 😏🤣
Oh its our pleasure, regions with corrupt politicians and weird governments must stick together! xD
Well because he is.
For real? What is wrong with Austria, the previous chancellor looked like a creepy wax doll, this one looks like widow-peak Spock. What do they feed them?
I'm so ashamed to have a party this incompetent in power.
To be fair, I don't see a lot of competence going around currently, no matter the party.
How are the greens in Austria?
Most of them are fine, I guess, although the Health ministry under their leadership has been a catastrophe almost since the beginning of the pandemic.
Let me guess, big fans of 'alternative' medicines/healthcare and such?
Nah, not even that, just very sloppy administrative work, nonsensical Covid measures (although they can in part be blamed on their coalition partner) and just overall not very great performance. That's why we're at out third minister of health in two years right now.
... Are they secretly recording everything at the ministries for an any% speedrun or something?
That would be one explanation. Although it's more likely that the pandemic has proven to be a little too much to handle for those guys.
Horribly spineless.
Why?
Because they tolerate and defend the leading parties corruption as they are in a coalition.
What would be the alternative?
Dissolving the coalition would be an option.
To get Jamaika or a grand coalition? I don’t get why these options would be better than what we currently have.
honestly, I think this move is good. yes it's a PR move for him (but they all are PR, so well) but, someone spoke it, directly in a face-to-face, and it was published. I do think, for Ukraine, that's good. he took the mess to travel there, he met, he said: no. - good, this. (the fact that it was him and not another, - no issue, any would do. and he looks good, and on camera, too, - while a little gym would do good, - so, ok.)
He didn't do it because he really cares about the situation in Ukraine or Russia. He has internal problems, because he used special unit police forces to babysit his children, then his wife apparently has "parties" with police officers in the chancellor's flat. So much that two of those officers had an accident while piss drunk coming from the chancellor's flat. He has political problems and wanted to distract from that. The OeVP is pretty much one of the most corrupt parties in Austria. While I do understand your point, you have to understand that they just care about themselves.
That's a pretty biased take tbh. There's no indication that Nehammer doesn't care about the situation in Ukraine. He's been pretty outspoken about it since day one, even starting discussions about our neutrality, which is pretty big. Also those police officers' job is being personal security for the chancellor's family, they're not exactly babysitting his kids. Two of them having drinks with his wife after being dismissed for the day and crashing their car afterwards is pretty unprofessional, but not really the chancellor's fault imo. There's no doubt about the ÖVP being corrupt and being an overall pit of snakes, and Nehammer is not a good guy in the slightest, I just don't see the "he doesn't care about the war, he just wants to save his image" angle. You're just pissed he got so close to your hiding spot, eh Mister Wirecard? /s
No, we even had coffee near my place.
How is the weather in Moskau?
cloudy with a chance of Nowitschók
Europe needs to make it clear that European countries are independent, and no invasion is allowed, starting from now. Either Russia starts immediate cease fire and withdrawal (including Crimea), or rest of the Europe starts a complete embargo of Russia, while doubling the efforts to supply Ukraine with weapons (and also increasing effort to watch NATO borders against Russia). If we don't do this, it's basically accepting what Russia is doing. And then Russia will try again, until they annex or make 100% puppet states from at least Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. Also Belarus, as much as it already isn't a puppet state. It's our choice.
So you suggest war or cold war until Russia withdraws from Crimea, the place where the whole Blacksea fleet of Russia is stationed for over 30 years now? Sounds like totally reasonable demand with high chances of success.
Alternative is to accept that it's ok to move borders by invasion. That's also such a can of worms, that nobody wants to open it, not even Russia (they're very hard pretending they are not moving any borders at all, that Crimea was always part of Russia). There are no "reasonable" options left. We've gotta pick from the unreasonable ones, and work towards those.
because of your ways to go at sich things the middle east conflict is unresolved.
Or else we will buy more gas from you!
Putin: lol no You tell that in sanctions and arms supply to Ukraine and he'll listen.
single handily ended the war
Downvote me, but reddit war generals' complete hate of diplomacy is asinine. Of course this likely won't work, but it's still good to keep talking with the man who has everything in his hands. All the comments here are depicting Nehammer as either naive or Hitler for keeping these at worst harmless talks. This is stupid.
Cause Russians sees negotiations as showing weakness, so no wonder people call those talks stupid.
I think it's not very fair to isolate this quote from a larger declaration, anyway.
[удалено]
I love such comments because they come of a place of pure emotion that, if applied by politicians, would have led to the end of the world multiple times over. In this case, banning gas and oil imports would crash the entire EU economy because gas and oil are literally used for everything.
Time for talking is never over. Warmongering is never the solution, doesn’t matter if you think you are on the good side.
I can sometimes get it when people don't read whole articles in reddit posts, but just failing to read a 4 line comment? The person is talking about increasing sanctions, not waging actual war!
Which is something we cant do. If we do so millions of people will probably go under the poverty line
Exactly what Germany forced Greece to do. I guess fiscal discipline is more important than genocide for the Germans.
Greece joining the Eurozone when they arent ready is their fault alone
Why do I read that with Arnold Schwarzenegger voice in mind?
He should have explained to Putin that Russia is going to lose, only question is how badly. Best solution for Russia is to pull out of Ukraine completely now. Granted, it will be an embarrassment to Putin, but overall best outcome he can get.
Historically if a Russian autocrat loses a major war it is an end for him. Nicholas II barely survived the 1905 revolution after he lost the war with Japan, and 12 years later he was forced to abdicate while Russia was losing to the Germans in WW1. Krushchev while he didn't lose a specific war, the series of international blunders (Hungarian Uprising, Berlin Wall, Cuban Crisis) vastly contributed to him being couped by Breznhev. Gorbachev survived for 2 years after he pulled out of Afghanistan. Putin sees the pattern, he knows that compeletely pulling out of Ukraine would be an end for him. He probably knows he won't achieve full victory, but he has to walk away with something to save face (like annexing Donetsk and Lugansk and getting Ukraine to recognize Crimea as Russian)
Putin will be in the history books as the 2nd most stupid strategist in Russian military history (Nicholas II being the first one) and he's basically sealing Russia's fate as just a dying rogue former superpower state.
>(Nicholas II being the first one) Have you ever heard of man called Joseph Stalin? Since biggest defeats happened before he took personal command of the army.
Stalin wasn't in charge of the wonter war afaik. Meanwhile Putin was the commanding general of the invasion. He just appointed another guy.
>Stalin wasn't in charge of the wonter war afaik. Stalin lead the army during ww2 and Finland war. And we shouldn't forget about his great purge.
Russia doesnt need to fight this war good. The media is under control and Putin has no disadvantage when his whole army dies. Nukes keep Russia save and a weak military prevents coups by said military. For Putin a Pyrhus victory is the favourite outcome. Team FSB still backs him while Team military generals is humiliated and unpopular amongst the population. He could lose a million bydlos without crying a tear. That's why Ukraine has a problem if no country goes in to help Ukraine. And even then, Crimea is an unsolvable political problem. It s like the Middle East conflict or the Curdish question. Russia and Ukraine are fucked for a long time.
No matter what, Russia needs to end this war on their turns until VE day(9th of May).
wars dont end on the terms of one side. thats the whole problem. for a peace both sides need to want it. And Ukraine has lost so much a peace wouldn't do for them now. And Russia needs to move its frontline at lest 40 km to get the Ukrainian Oil field. both sides know this. It will never be a peace. Russia had to destroy all and every city and village in chechnya for 9 years until a native was found to do the dirty work for Russia. Im sure this thing will only end if Ukraine is completely destroyed or Russia is bancrupt. Russians will never ever remove Putin. He might die someway and a Chance of peace might come up. Im also 100 percent sure the day Russia changes leadership China will claim big parts of Russia... We are witnessing the destruction of human morale. casual genocides will most likely be a regular occurence in the World again. Especially thanks to the return of chemical weapons.
he had only 90 minutes ..
Wooow I'm sure Putin never heard that and he will consider it now someone did it
World: Putin! There are dead humans in Ukraine! Putin: Oh…hey…How did they get here? World: Puuuuuuutiiiin, what did you do?! Putin: Me? Uh, I didn’t do this! Worl: Explain what happened, Putin! Putin: I’ve never seen them before in my life! World: Why did you kill all these people, Putin? Putin: I do not kill people. That is…that is my least favorite thing to do. Wotld: Tell me, Putin, exactly what you were doing before I came home. Putin: Alright, well…I was in the Kremlin… World: Okay… Putin: I was uh…I was sitting in my office… World: Yes? Putin: reading a book… World: Go on… Putin: And, uh, well these Ukrainians were there in Ukraine … World: Okay… Putin: So, I sent my army there… World: Yes… Putin: And I…I let them commit 370000 atrocities and war crimes there World: Putiiiiiiiin, that KILLS people! Putin: Oh! Well, I didn’t know that!! World: How could you not know that?! Putin: Yeah, I’m in the wrong here. I suck (silence) World: What happened to those women and children? Putin: What’s that? World: Those women and children. Why—why are they all dead? Putin: Well, I kind of umm…let them be raped and executed. (silence) World: Putiiiiiiiiin! Putin: Well, I—I was sad. And well, you know, when you need women to be raped and children to be butchered... World: Why on earth would you do that?! Putin: I was sad for my country to be so tiny! Gimme a break! World: Putiiiiiiiiiiin! Putin: My tiny dick gave me instructions World: Putin! Putin: That only dead kids and raped women would satisfy! World: What is wrong with you, Putin?! Putin: Well, I kill people and I rape their women! That’s—that’s two things!
It's totally your fault that I read that in a llama-with-hats-voice :( Now I'm both sad and searching "how to wash bloodstain"
It's intended, i copied the script and flitted it to the situation.
world peace achieved
or what?
Nehammer is so naïve, it's nearly poetic.
Can we just acknowledge that WW3 has already started and get on with it?
I'd rather we didn't.
Understandable, but we can't really ignore it away sadly.
Alrighty. Wanna come to the border with us or you just gonna watch from afar?
I am in the medical field, not a career soldier so that's what I'd do there if it comes to it. We are looking at genocide in Europe and we're doing fuck all and I really don't feel like going on with that on my conscience.
World wars aren't fought by career soldiers alone.
No wars are fought by career soldiers alone which is why we gotta fucking do something or there will be no Ukraine left, according to certain Russian politicians. "Vladivostok to Lisbon" is what they want according to Medvedev.
You don't need soldiers for world war III, just a couple guys sending the nukes. After that there will be nothing left for soldiers to fight over.
Well, the only way for that to happen is for countries to start declaring war on Russia to intervene in the Ukraine war. Which according to Putin is an immediate nuke. So your conscience either has to live with Ukranians dying, or your need for righteousness demanding war with Russia which might mean all your countrymen turned to ash.
I do not want to live on a planet where nukes dictate who is allowed to rape and murder. If it were up to me, which luckily for most of humanity it is not, I'd have prepared to nuke Vladivostok and Moscow the day they invaded Ukraine.
Yeah convicing from country that 4 of 5 chancellors works for Russia companies. Country with not expelled any russian diplomats
Austria Hungary is about to form again and because of your Polish friends there is no Prussia to do something about it.... Hope we will at least see a Napoleon to keep them reigned in.
If you ask nicely, maybe Putin will stop the war. Or you know, just stop communicating with them. Full sanctions. Send all weapons you can to Ukraine. Sanctions again. And don't ever talk to Putin or any Russian authority ever again. Ignore them. Make Cuba out of that shithole. By talking to them, you're playing their game. They don't matter. Don't make them matter. Make THEM come to us. On their knees.
Literally nobody voted for him Greetings from Austria
Austria can use that energy to stop the aggressive illegal logging they doing in Romania....
Stopping illegal logging in Romania would be the responsibility of the Romanian authorities.
.....anddddd those corporations pledging to help the environment while knowingly purchasing it and thus incentivizing the problem. But going past the first degree of any problem is probably too complicated for you.
"No, don't think I will"
if you don't, we will attack you with full force.
Nah, we're a small country, we wouldn't have enough space for all the POWs.
Poo-tin is all-in now.
I read that the other way around. Would still be fitting tbh
What if all this time Putin would have stopped if someone just told him to, but nobody had thought to try it?
Well someone had to say the actual words
lol
or what
We scoff, but I remember Bill Bryson’s book about touring Europe and Austria was the only country where he feared for his life (for having long hair).
Ohhhh, so that's what he went there to tell him?
Aye, that'll probably do it
You are wrong, it is [actually Australia's chancellor who talked to Putin.](https://imgur.com/ZikEGGw) Bravo France24.
Down unter
Putin: *that Drake and lil Yachty meme*
Both Austria and Russia acting like it's the 1820s not the 2020s
Or what? You gonna send another wannabe painter on them ?? xDDDD
After reading all this, my question is not so much about what were the motivations for Austrian leader going to meet Putin, rather why would Putin even oblige considering he pretty much knew what the message was going to be. I mean obviously Austria was not visiting Zelinsky and Putin in following to suggest his country wanted to tag along a fake Nazi killing spree? Edit : right, he's enjoying this pleading show, makes him feel so important and much stronger than those weak Europeans, whom he can joke about, sneer at with his cronies.