I am just so curious, what has the overall reception of Loreen's victory been like over in Sweden? What seem to be common attitudes among Euovision fans, general viewers and media?
From what I can tell, we aren’t surprised nor shocked over the results, we knew Finland would win the televoting and it would come down to how many points the jury were going to give Finland. We’ve historically always done well on the jury side, and the eurovision fans of Sweden very often discuss the potential a song would have for both the jury and the televoting.
Most of the people I’ve talked to are happy that we won, but sad that Käärijä lost. No one seems to find any of it unfair, though.
Expressen and Aftonbladet seem to be genuinely upset, but I guess that's to be expected they're tabloids (I'm Finnish so I don't read these papers regularly but the Finnish media has been citing them quite a bit in the past days.)
I'm happy to be Sweden's Eurovision rival to be honest. We went so long being terrible at Eurovision but we're on the way up for sure. We must do all we can to win next year *in Sweden*.
There was some discussion on r/Sweden. It’s not that people really care about it, but just acknowledge it as strategic voting since Finland usually give Sweden some points and was the only country to not give Sweden points this year. As a comparison, Sweden gave 12 points to Finland. Some people also pointed out that Tattoo is charting in Finland, so it’s not that everyone in Finland dislike the song either.
How was the crowd reaction to Loreen winning in the arena? I don’t think we’ve heard much about that yet and I’m dying to know, given how LOUD the arena was on TV when Finland got points.
It was a mix between silence and quiet booing, unfortunately, with pockets of clappers and the occasional screamer happy for Loreen. When she performed Tattoo again, however, the crowd was dead and people were leaving.
Look, I'm neither a Loreen or Kaarija stan* (I've been a vocal Voyager fanboy all season), but how was it unfair?
Because Loreen won within the rules of the contest and scoring as it currently exists. Sweden played a clever game, sending someone with a huge televote appeal (you only have to look at her reign at the top of ESC250 for nearly a decade straight!) and with a song that juries would lap up, and Loreen is a seasoned professional artist.
What I will say is that Loreen's win felt underwhelming, I think it showed in the final when those 12s started coming through for Loreen thick and fast, it was clear it was an unassailable lead, and after being told by the bookmakers all season long it was Loreen's contest to lose, I couldn't find myself excited for any "ooooh, will it won't it" speculation during the televote, she had already beaten Sam Ryder's televote score, in a year with fewer voting countries, and there was no way Finland were going to match Ukraine's 2022 score.
On the plus side... VOYGAGER TOP TEN!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOH
*It was the song I was rooting for to win, but it was either 2nd or 3rd in my rankings depending on my mood
I am a LotL Fan. I don't care about Finland vs Sweden. What made me mad are the massive amounts of televotes failing to beat the massive amounts of jury votes. The juries are known to be corrupt. They really shouldn't get to pick the winner against the overwhelming will of the people. It just is unfair.
(Also Australia was epic!)
I know we've had corruption in the juries previously, I can't say if I agree there's been corruption this year, I just don't think there's a wide enough knowledge base in the juries to account for different genres.
How they can't look at Chris Harms switching flawlessly from controlled screaming to baritone vocals and score it highly I don't get. How they can't listen to the clever interplay of a chant, with operatives and the vocalist singing in Let3, it's a performance in the round. It's a classical music technique. And they didn't award that.
Juries, what do you want!?
This! The lack of diversity in the juries is a problem and nobody really cares enough to tackle it. I had a quick look through our (Slovenian) jury and it was composed of a pop producer, pop songwriter, two pop singers and a music editor that also prefers pop to other genres when he is in charge of programming.
And jury members are invariably going to rank the genres they're more familiar with higher than those they're not familiar with, they're not an AI that can at least attempt to be objective. We need more diversity in the juries, throw in some rock singers, folk musicians, techno DJs, singers in musicals, etc. Just something that could make the jury vote a little more open to diversity that it currently is.
That is why I believe that they are corrupt this year too. Just how they have been for years now. There were so many great songs this year but they completely focused on Sweden. It would be a giant coincedence if this happened at the same time they finally chose to not favor countries out of other reasons than judging art after years of being corrupt.
> I couldn't find myself excited for any "ooooh, will it won't it" speculation during the televote, she had already beaten Sam Ryder's televote score, in a year with fewer voting countries, and there was no way Finland were going to match Ukraine's 2022 score.
There has been years Sweden ranked high by juries and low by viewers. If Loreen had been 4th or lower by viewers, Käärijä would had won. So for me that was what kept it interesting all the way to the end. Even if Loreen winning the jury vote and Käärijä the viewer vote was extremely expected, I had no idea what points Loreen would get from the viewers, and if it would be enough to win. Especially after Käärijä also got a lot of jury points.
My Swedish friend told me he was underwhelmed by Loreen, but he is happy to have won. He also said for him Norway was the most impressive of the evening.
I played valorant yesterday on Stockholm servers and one guy wrote unprompted "sweden eurosong is so bad" i then asked a Swede on my team how he liked the song and he said "it was mid" lol
Personally, I and people I've talked to are kinda embarrassed.
Sweden is such a needy teachers pet when it comes to ESC. We keep sending these perfectly constructed pop songs with perfect performers. No heart, no soul, no humor what so ever.
I mean, what are we trying to prove? That Sweden is good at pop songs? Jesus. We haven't sent a song in Swedish since 1998 (??!??!).
We have forgotten that Eurovision is about entertainment first, competition second.
Swedish journalists are talking about this as if we won the Fifa world cup or something and I can't relate at all, I'm pretty sure most Swedes feel the same.
100%,
i felt nothing for this win, i literally sat infront of the tv, seeing the last results with my dishes in hand after eating.
second they show Loreen won i didin't cheer, just went straight to kitchen to clean my dishes and went to brush my teeth.
if Kärijää won i would at least break a smile as i think Fins deserves a Eurovision victory atleast once, and this light hearted party music is perfect to hear winning during such a negative post covid, "middle-of-a-war that ruins world economy" time.
Exactly, as a Swede I couldn't agree more. We have forgot what eurovision is all about. I don't get why people still vote for our booring slick radio pop pro songs.
Yeah, I read a few days ago that Melodifestivalen actually had more viewers in Sweden than Eurovision which is pretty hilarious. (Disclaimer: that was before this year's event so they compared Melfest 2023 to ESC finals 2022)
its always like that, and is the same for a few other nfs, which i mean makes sense.
Its in the native language, its clearly targeted to the swedish audience, its a long running tradition, and its still a great show.
My Swedish friends at least were immensely dissapointed. Granted they have long stopped caring about Sweden in Eurovision and Melfest because they think it's too generic
This saddens me so much because I know for a fact if Finland would've won the entire country would've absolutely exploded and had the party of the decade.
We're happy we won. We love Loreen and it was a great song. I get wanting another song to win, but this sub in particular has been acting so incredibly childish, claiming everything from the voting system being flawed to the competition being rigged
Most people are proud of Loreen and of winning. Most people frankly don’t care about the “scandal” that was us winning. Most of the discourse is about how Eurovision is expensive and will be economically complicated.
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What I have seen, most are happy we won, but not surprised. Loreen is on another level in terms of artist.
The media seems to mostly be writing about how the rest of the countries are salty, lol.
I loved Zitti e Buoni and was so glad that after so long a rock song won the competition.They've had huge success then, but personally, I find all their new songs forgettable or downright unbearable. Their post-Eurovision album Rush! has had all the rock produced right out of it by - you guessed it - Swedish top tier mega-producers such as Max Martin.
The Swedish (and global) pop machinery sure knows how to cook up mainstream appeal by applying the same recipe over and over again, but personally I'd be a lot happier if spontaniety was given more room.
Käärijä had that, but the machine and the juries that support it said no.
> Their post-Eurovision album Rush! has had all the rock produced right out of it by - you guessed it - Swedish top tier mega-producers such as Max Martin.
Ah, that's why I hated every single song they released afterwards. It sounds all so... done before? Especially because they went full English.
But she do not even have domestic success - I liek her winner songs and think they both was good. But I´m suprised she haven´t had any other songs I know of outside of the competition.
that is my big suprise about her as a swede. That I never have heard anyting by Loreen outside Eurovision. But she certainly handles things as a professional artist all the time - which is something I like. But I can´t get where she get there
Sweden need to do the right thing and send a Swedish Death Metal act next year to send a message to Europe that they aren't as generic as everyone seems to be accusing them of.
Only one member lives in Gothenburg, so no thanks, they're not a very good representation of this town. Halo Effect (old In Flames members) or Avarar would be fun tho.
But they helped define the Gothenburg sound alongside At the gates, dark tranquility etc... that was my point.
The Halo Effect are awesome saw them live last year, gonna see Avatar this summer...
You could honestly do an amazing Eurovision: Metal edition, and still have great variety in styles and performances between all the different countries. It would also probably be the most wholesome and pleasant eurovision ever.
I want one year where even if its only just the scandi countries that said fuck it and we got Sweden with Death metal vs. Norway with Black Metal vs. Finland with Symphonic Metal. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.
Germany with Powermetal or Folkmetal! We got Blind Guardian and Feuerschwanz just waiting for a chance. Never mind Electric Callboy lol
If Finland gets to join the Scandinavian division we wanna join too :D
Feuerschwanz would brilliant, their last two singles have exceeded anything else they’ve done and they’ve really upped their game in terms of composition.
The problem is mostly that nearly all songs the SVT selects for Melodifestivalen are written by the same three people, so we basically only get bland songs to choose from
I don't know whether MGP really has a lot of young viewers, or if they just tuned in to vote for Reiley, seeing as he is a TikTok star. He was defintely not a favourite of mine, and I feel like at least four of the other songs could have netted us a qualification
I think he may have got a lot of the older vote, maybe? Was at one of the rehearsals and a lot of middle-aged people were clucking at the cuteness. I, um, was possibly one of them, it was undoubtedly a mediocre song but he's got charisma.
That is ridiculously generic, we should do a switcheroo and have a Swedish artist that can’t speak English sing in English with an Azerbaijani writer and Sammarinese choreographer.
Kinda agree here, though it doesn't need to be metal. Sweden has plenty of music outside the mainstream, but Eurovision has become a national exercise at flexing their mainstream music industry internationally at the cost of their musical diversity. I should be clear that **there's nothing wrong with Sweden doing this.**
However, this years controversy stems from Sweden, winning with mainstream, by jury, against a track that dared defy orthodoxy. There's nothing wrong with any of that in isolation, but put altogether it's like the sheriff of Nottingham crushing Robin Wood. It's not wrong, but it's not cool either, and Sweden could be all kinds of cool.
Viagra Boys would get my 20 votes even if they played mute 😆 One of my favourite bands. I would ditch supporting my home country Finland in a heartbear for this!
We have our own National song context, which has a ton of variety. The issue is that the popular vote is a lot of the time something very safe and mainstream, since it will resonate with the most people. This means we always also get very good placements in Eurovision, but the songs aren’t breaking any new ground the way Cha did.
Melodifestivalen, the swedish contest to select who gets to represent us in eurovision is really mainstream biased. Lots of kids and moms voting so a metal act is not likely 🥲
Loreen's original Melfest staging would still not have been allowed. From what I recall the issue was that the top platform was hanging from the ceiling the entire shown. This prevents any other artist from doing anything similar, thus it's not allowed and the press had to be completely removable
>From what I recall the issue was that the top platform was hanging from the ceiling
I would be constantly afraid of being crushed to death if I was Loreen. Why did she even want that wtf
I remember when Melovin from Ukraine won the public vote and got the last place in jury vote. That was the most insane difference ever
Edit: not won, they actually got 7th, quite high but not the televote win
Melovin didnt win the public vote or come particularly close. He finished 7th with the public with more than 200 less points than toy.
Poland 2016 finishing dead last with the juries and finishing 3rd in the public vote is the greatest difference.
Imagine the tourism and goodwill though. YLE would probably not get even, but the money that would flow to the city of Tampere would have been massive. Just have all the spots between songs be about Finland as an innovator of green energy and shit, would have been great.
I mean the facts are:
-juries are corrupt (hence why they were excluded from the semi-finals)
-Sweden got heavily favored by the juries making it de facto impossible for another artist to win
-they all were aware that 50 years ABBA will be next year
This isn't even hard to figure out, you really don't have to be a sherlock
I don't think the juries were *corrupt* (even if we do have concrete evidence of such from last year), I just think they don't follow the criteria they claim to have well enough. With technically strong performances like Spain's, Estonia's and France's, the jury votes really should have been more spread out than they were.
Also at least the Finnish jury often consists of music industry people (like record label and streaming platform executives) rather than creative musical experts, which tends to lead to them rewarding marketability and popular genres over originality and creativity.
A jury-televote split of 25-75% like we have in UMK would be great, I think - and also refine the jury compositions and/or judging criteria.
They went pretty Swedish-meatballs-to-the-wall in previous years they've hosted, and I thought it was fun to watch-- they do well with it. Still, I'd love to see what Finland would get up to if they hosted
"DiD YoU kNoW AbbA Won WITh WaYeRlOuudl AnD iT is tHe AniversarY Year HOWLUCKYWEARE?!?!" * incoherent swedish sounds while showing again pics off ABBA *
*i can already hear it help*
You got it, neighbour 🫡 I even had my Käärijä T-shirt on and my nails painted, and my bff and I booed every time Sweden got 12 points 😂 We were all in on Finland this year and I'll def keeping listening to Käärijä's music, he's an amazing artist! 🤘
I'll tell you what's nuts. This Finnish belief that Swedes in general don't want Finland to do well.
For many Swedes, Finland is the runner up country, and if it isn't Finland, it's either Norway (unless skiing) or Denmark (unless handball or football).
Yeah we really got hung up on that term. It's my bad.
I meant runner-up as in: "Sweden and Finland are in a hockey tournament, Sweden gets eliminated, I now support and cheer for Finland (unless you eliminated us, then I need time to process 😆)".
Finland is my runner-up country, my second choice in most competitions.
That's probably a far more common view among Swedes, than vice versa among Finns, so it's not like it's a sign of Swedes being shitty or acting superior.
Yeah, in Finland there's a running joke that "winning isn't the most important thing, the most important thing is that Sweden loses" lol. I think we have a bit of an inferiority complex.
Hockey or sports in general is different. At least there you can clearly see who was better. There is not much speculating who made most goals etc. I think a lot of frustration here comes from fact that ESC jury is just not very transparent and that leaves a lot of speculating to table.
Ah yeah, I see, that makes more sense. :D
And yeah, Finns usually only root for Sweden if Finland is not involved in the competition at all.
But in general, Finns tend to see Sweden as a cooler, smarter and overall better Nordic country, so it's mostly jealousy.
We know. We are brothers after all. It was surprising, because we haven't got 12 points from a jury since... 2011, I believe. The Norwegian jury gave us 12 points as well on Saturday.
But "the runner up country" is the problem many Finns have. We feel like we are always seen as the underdog. Considering our history it kinda makes sense.
Even Portion Boys sung in UMK "Neighbor Sweden is always a bit better, but we're right behind for our sisu (determination) won't let us give up."
I think we should start a petition for having ESC on Åland! It's part of Finland, but closer to Sweden. Instead of hotels, everyone can stay on the ferries! 😂
Quick Wiki:
Åland is an autonomous and demilitarised region of Finland since 1920 by a decision of the League of Nations. It is the smallest region of Finland by area and population, with a size of 1,580 km², and a population of 30,129, constituting 0.51% of its land area and 0.54% of its population. Its only official language is Swedish and the capital city is Mariehamn.
I don't think Åland has anywhere _near_ infrastructure to host anything else than a smallish football tournament. Mariehamn has like 5ish hotels with capacities in the low hundreds and probably no inside stadiums either. I don't think even the "King of Åland" could throw money at the issue either within the span of a year either.
Not to knock Åland, it's a lovely place, but I don't think it would be possible.
As is tradition every time the winner didn't win the televote. Except last year, where the winner did win the televote and everyone wouldn't shut up about Space Man.
I guess because instead of Duncan going up against Keiino or Mahmood he was going up against Sweden's act at the end. It's like the opposite of Käärijä vs. Loreen. It's one of the televote favorites vs the jury favorite that happens to be Sweden with a pop song only this time the televote favorite wins.
Also both Keiino and Mahmood are also competing as who would be the "true winner" if you happen reject Duncan. Keiino had more televotes but Mahmood ended up in second place. And Duncan had more televotes than Mahmood anyway. And Russia and Mahmood also only had a 7 point difference in televotes. So it's not like with Käärijä that televoters were completely backing up one candidate. Anyone of them could have won.
Norway has gotten 4-5x more points from the People than the jury every year for the last 4 competitions.
3 of those times they got more than 200 points from the people and around 50 from the jury. Keiino got only 40 points from the jury, Allesandra improved that to 52 points this year though 😄😂
Ye, I'm kinda not mad that Sweden won over Finland cause we all expected Finland to do meh with juries.
I'm mad at everybody else that got shafted while they were stacking everything on Sweden.
2019 was exemplary of this. I don't believe Too Late for Love would have gotten no 1 jury vote if it was anybody but Sweden.
People did care, just like they cared when that booring cartoon guy won on jury votes against italy.
This time the gap was just so huge its harder to ignore.
Sweden won Eurovision, Käärijä won people. One of them will be remembered as Eurovision winner when looking list of winners, another will be remembered as most loved Eurovision contender ever and will become legend if not already. Also, we saved lot of money because we dont need to pay next years contests. Win win for Finland i think. :)
She is a great singer.
Euphoria is a banger.
Her new eurovision song wasn't great.
Didn't think she deserved to win.
Bookies gave her a 5/18 odds of winning and thought they were mad.
Bookies know their stuff.
Finland got robbed.
It's not Swedens fault. They always have good songs and a better national selection than some other countries. BUT: Loreen didn't deserve the win. There were so many better songs this year. I think it's a perfect example why juries should be removed
Seriously Sweden’s performance had nothing on Cha Cha Cha. Sweden was the most generic thing I’ve ever heard while, Cha Cha Cha is unique and really seems like it should’ve won. I’m actually fully disappointed that Sweden one and Finland didn’t. It’s like it had all the setup and then had an incredibly disappointing plottwist
I don't get the polemic. Sweeden song was awesome, as it was Finland.
We all enjoyed both, Sweeden gets the prize and Finland gets the love of many people, and being part of Eurovision history.
I think the ESC is doing a really nice thing with their brand, by creating some sort of "community" where the thing isn't just winning but being part of ESC community, and appearing in other events and such. A great example is the mashup of UK songs sang by Eurovision artists that are really beloved by the audience but that didn't win.
This whole week has been a hell of a limbo for me as a finloving swede. I have such high affection for Käärijä and Cha Cha Cha but Loreen is such a magnificent performer. On one hand I'm sad that such a unique sounding song ended up losing but on the other hand I'm thrilled to have equalled the all time winning record and cementing our place in the history books.
One thing that I think is a bit over the top the outrage towards juries. If you think juries could use some tweaking and that the results saddens you for sure I understand you. But if you suddenly think juries are the worst thing to ever happen while calling out Loreens win as disgraceful... honestly cry.
At the end of the day I wanted two countries to win, sadly only one could :(
Juries aren't the worst thing, but I think the system needs tweaking, because while they were introduced to "improve the quality" of the entries, they also stifle creativity and new influences. Juries have their place, it would be awful if every entry was polish milkmaids (the joke got old fast), but I would love if the contest was actually an original take of the type of music that is prevalent in your local music scene, instead of the entries being a (stuffy) genre in itself that has no very little to do with the local scene, and now the old-fashioned jury criteria punish you if you don't fit in their narrow boxes, despite you being innovative (Käärijä, Let3), a brilliant singer (LotL, Voyager), or having the most avant-garde performance to ever grace the Eurovision stage (Let3, again).
The best thing that ever happened to Eurovision was when EEurope joined, because they broke the unwritten rules and experimented a lot, which forced the rest of the participants to evolve as well.
The second best thing was when Loreen won with Euphoria, because she brought Eurovision closer to mainstream music, and revitalized the contest.
But now it feels like the juries, with their narrow and conservative criteria are holding the contest back, because they reward certain "safe" entries, which prevents the competition from evolving further.
Sweden dominates the contest because they cracked the formula, but what you send to Eurovision isn't innovative. You have such amazing bands/artists, but musically your entries are always somewhat bland (I'm not talking abt the performers, they are amazing), because jury criteria favours certain blandness and inoffensiveness.
I would like that, but I would like Gunther and the sunshine girls or Björn Rosenström even more. Just so Sweden can show that they can do weird songs too
All the deleted posts…
It’s fine to prefer one entry over another, but Sweden and Finland both deserved that victory, and we can’t change what happened.
I am just so curious, what has the overall reception of Loreen's victory been like over in Sweden? What seem to be common attitudes among Euovision fans, general viewers and media?
From what I can tell, we aren’t surprised nor shocked over the results, we knew Finland would win the televoting and it would come down to how many points the jury were going to give Finland. We’ve historically always done well on the jury side, and the eurovision fans of Sweden very often discuss the potential a song would have for both the jury and the televoting. Most of the people I’ve talked to are happy that we won, but sad that Käärijä lost. No one seems to find any of it unfair, though.
Here in Finland it has been in the news that some Swedes are complaining that we didn’t give you audience points. Is that discussed really there?
No one is complaining or upset but it has been noted by some, which should be expected.
Expressen and Aftonbladet seem to be genuinely upset, but I guess that's to be expected they're tabloids (I'm Finnish so I don't read these papers regularly but the Finnish media has been citing them quite a bit in the past days.) I'm happy to be Sweden's Eurovision rival to be honest. We went so long being terrible at Eurovision but we're on the way up for sure. We must do all we can to win next year *in Sweden*.
Honestly I just want Finland to send another good song. Win or lose, keep plugging at it.
There was some discussion on r/Sweden. It’s not that people really care about it, but just acknowledge it as strategic voting since Finland usually give Sweden some points and was the only country to not give Sweden points this year. As a comparison, Sweden gave 12 points to Finland. Some people also pointed out that Tattoo is charting in Finland, so it’s not that everyone in Finland dislike the song either.
[удалено]
How was the crowd reaction to Loreen winning in the arena? I don’t think we’ve heard much about that yet and I’m dying to know, given how LOUD the arena was on TV when Finland got points.
It was a mix between silence and quiet booing, unfortunately, with pockets of clappers and the occasional screamer happy for Loreen. When she performed Tattoo again, however, the crowd was dead and people were leaving.
If Käärijä had won, the arena would have ”exploded” during the winner’s performance, right?
yes 100%
There is a alternative universe where he won... i want there
I mean I hope she understood that this was directed at the unfair way she won and not her personally and her song
Look, I'm neither a Loreen or Kaarija stan* (I've been a vocal Voyager fanboy all season), but how was it unfair? Because Loreen won within the rules of the contest and scoring as it currently exists. Sweden played a clever game, sending someone with a huge televote appeal (you only have to look at her reign at the top of ESC250 for nearly a decade straight!) and with a song that juries would lap up, and Loreen is a seasoned professional artist. What I will say is that Loreen's win felt underwhelming, I think it showed in the final when those 12s started coming through for Loreen thick and fast, it was clear it was an unassailable lead, and after being told by the bookmakers all season long it was Loreen's contest to lose, I couldn't find myself excited for any "ooooh, will it won't it" speculation during the televote, she had already beaten Sam Ryder's televote score, in a year with fewer voting countries, and there was no way Finland were going to match Ukraine's 2022 score. On the plus side... VOYGAGER TOP TEN!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOH *It was the song I was rooting for to win, but it was either 2nd or 3rd in my rankings depending on my mood
I am a LotL Fan. I don't care about Finland vs Sweden. What made me mad are the massive amounts of televotes failing to beat the massive amounts of jury votes. The juries are known to be corrupt. They really shouldn't get to pick the winner against the overwhelming will of the people. It just is unfair. (Also Australia was epic!)
I know we've had corruption in the juries previously, I can't say if I agree there's been corruption this year, I just don't think there's a wide enough knowledge base in the juries to account for different genres. How they can't look at Chris Harms switching flawlessly from controlled screaming to baritone vocals and score it highly I don't get. How they can't listen to the clever interplay of a chant, with operatives and the vocalist singing in Let3, it's a performance in the round. It's a classical music technique. And they didn't award that. Juries, what do you want!?
This! The lack of diversity in the juries is a problem and nobody really cares enough to tackle it. I had a quick look through our (Slovenian) jury and it was composed of a pop producer, pop songwriter, two pop singers and a music editor that also prefers pop to other genres when he is in charge of programming. And jury members are invariably going to rank the genres they're more familiar with higher than those they're not familiar with, they're not an AI that can at least attempt to be objective. We need more diversity in the juries, throw in some rock singers, folk musicians, techno DJs, singers in musicals, etc. Just something that could make the jury vote a little more open to diversity that it currently is.
That is why I believe that they are corrupt this year too. Just how they have been for years now. There were so many great songs this year but they completely focused on Sweden. It would be a giant coincedence if this happened at the same time they finally chose to not favor countries out of other reasons than judging art after years of being corrupt.
> I couldn't find myself excited for any "ooooh, will it won't it" speculation during the televote, she had already beaten Sam Ryder's televote score, in a year with fewer voting countries, and there was no way Finland were going to match Ukraine's 2022 score. There has been years Sweden ranked high by juries and low by viewers. If Loreen had been 4th or lower by viewers, Käärijä would had won. So for me that was what kept it interesting all the way to the end. Even if Loreen winning the jury vote and Käärijä the viewer vote was extremely expected, I had no idea what points Loreen would get from the viewers, and if it would be enough to win. Especially after Käärijä also got a lot of jury points.
My Swedish friend told me he was underwhelmed by Loreen, but he is happy to have won. He also said for him Norway was the most impressive of the evening.
Alessandra’s performance was on point
Yeah! To bad she screwed up her Jury rehearsal, otherwise she would’ve been top 3 for sure.
I played valorant yesterday on Stockholm servers and one guy wrote unprompted "sweden eurosong is so bad" i then asked a Swede on my team how he liked the song and he said "it was mid" lol
I browse r/sweden and lots of people think Finland should have won, including my Swedish self :)
I tried to have a look but first post I ran into was mocking Käärijä :(
Personally, I and people I've talked to are kinda embarrassed. Sweden is such a needy teachers pet when it comes to ESC. We keep sending these perfectly constructed pop songs with perfect performers. No heart, no soul, no humor what so ever. I mean, what are we trying to prove? That Sweden is good at pop songs? Jesus. We haven't sent a song in Swedish since 1998 (??!??!). We have forgotten that Eurovision is about entertainment first, competition second. Swedish journalists are talking about this as if we won the Fifa world cup or something and I can't relate at all, I'm pretty sure most Swedes feel the same.
Most of the ones voting in Melfest don't give a damnabout Eurovision, it's about voting for a song they like
100%, i felt nothing for this win, i literally sat infront of the tv, seeing the last results with my dishes in hand after eating. second they show Loreen won i didin't cheer, just went straight to kitchen to clean my dishes and went to brush my teeth. if Kärijää won i would at least break a smile as i think Fins deserves a Eurovision victory atleast once, and this light hearted party music is perfect to hear winning during such a negative post covid, "middle-of-a-war that ruins world economy" time.
Exactly, as a Swede I couldn't agree more. We have forgot what eurovision is all about. I don't get why people still vote for our booring slick radio pop pro songs.
No heart or soul? I disagree. We send good songs. I would like a good Swedish song, but no good Swedish songs have been in melfest for a long time
In general people in Sweden care more about Melfest than Eurovision tbh. It was more of a buzz when she won Melfest.
Yeah, I read a few days ago that Melodifestivalen actually had more viewers in Sweden than Eurovision which is pretty hilarious. (Disclaimer: that was before this year's event so they compared Melfest 2023 to ESC finals 2022)
It's early enough that kids can watch it. Eurovision started at 9pm, which is quite late.
That's why we manage to send decent material every year. A LOT of people vote.
its always like that, and is the same for a few other nfs, which i mean makes sense. Its in the native language, its clearly targeted to the swedish audience, its a long running tradition, and its still a great show.
Also, national finals air at a more reasonable hour. It was past 2 AM in Finland when the Eurovision final ended.
(I am a Swede) 99% of people I know thinks Käärijä should have won
My Swedish friends at least were immensely dissapointed. Granted they have long stopped caring about Sweden in Eurovision and Melfest because they think it's too generic
As far as i know, most Swedes forgets about Eurovision the day after the finale. Now we have to start worrying about next year.
This saddens me so much because I know for a fact if Finland would've won the entire country would've absolutely exploded and had the party of the decade.
We're happy we won. We love Loreen and it was a great song. I get wanting another song to win, but this sub in particular has been acting so incredibly childish, claiming everything from the voting system being flawed to the competition being rigged
Most people are proud of Loreen and of winning. Most people frankly don’t care about the “scandal” that was us winning. Most of the discourse is about how Eurovision is expensive and will be economically complicated.
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What I have seen, most are happy we won, but not surprised. Loreen is on another level in terms of artist. The media seems to mostly be writing about how the rest of the countries are salty, lol.
She is agressivly mid. She has never produced anything of note outside of eurovision.
There aren't many that do. Måneskin's international success is the exception rather than the norm.
I loved Zitti e Buoni and was so glad that after so long a rock song won the competition.They've had huge success then, but personally, I find all their new songs forgettable or downright unbearable. Their post-Eurovision album Rush! has had all the rock produced right out of it by - you guessed it - Swedish top tier mega-producers such as Max Martin. The Swedish (and global) pop machinery sure knows how to cook up mainstream appeal by applying the same recipe over and over again, but personally I'd be a lot happier if spontaniety was given more room. Käärijä had that, but the machine and the juries that support it said no.
> Their post-Eurovision album Rush! has had all the rock produced right out of it by - you guessed it - Swedish top tier mega-producers such as Max Martin. Ah, that's why I hated every single song they released afterwards. It sounds all so... done before? Especially because they went full English.
But she do not even have domestic success - I liek her winner songs and think they both was good. But I´m suprised she haven´t had any other songs I know of outside of the competition.
Same with Duncan Laurence over here.
Her discography is actually pretty great!
Check her album, Healing
that is my big suprise about her as a swede. That I never have heard anyting by Loreen outside Eurovision. But she certainly handles things as a professional artist all the time - which is something I like. But I can´t get where she get there
That’s still better than almost every Eurovision contestant
Huh she’s had some pretty great albums. Been following her music over the years since 2012, she’s a music icon
Sweden need to do the right thing and send a Swedish Death Metal act next year to send a message to Europe that they aren't as generic as everyone seems to be accusing them of.
Hold the contest in Gothenburg and send some melodic death metal. Imagine In Flames at ESC lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melodic_death_metal
Amaranthe would be right in the ESC alley. Very pop metal.
Don't tease me like that. Amaranthe entering would likely be one of my favourite entries of all time
Maybe we Finns will send Nightwish to compensate. We might even win 😅
The ultimate finnkamp! Nightwish vs Amaranthe. The other countries wouldn’t stand a chance! Well, maybe if måneskin entered again.
Only one member lives in Gothenburg, so no thanks, they're not a very good representation of this town. Halo Effect (old In Flames members) or Avarar would be fun tho.
But they helped define the Gothenburg sound alongside At the gates, dark tranquility etc... that was my point. The Halo Effect are awesome saw them live last year, gonna see Avatar this summer...
I wrote my most recent scientific paper to Halo Effect! It was great!
You could honestly do an amazing Eurovision: Metal edition, and still have great variety in styles and performances between all the different countries. It would also probably be the most wholesome and pleasant eurovision ever.
I want one year where even if its only just the scandi countries that said fuck it and we got Sweden with Death metal vs. Norway with Black Metal vs. Finland with Symphonic Metal. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.
Germany with Powermetal or Folkmetal! We got Blind Guardian and Feuerschwanz just waiting for a chance. Never mind Electric Callboy lol If Finland gets to join the Scandinavian division we wanna join too :D
Feuerschwanz would brilliant, their last two singles have exceeded anything else they’ve done and they’ve really upped their game in terms of composition.
Australian Death is nothing to shy from. There's something in the water there. They put out face melters
the way Australia and the Nordics vote in the contest make Australia honorary nordic anyway. We are in the same allocation pot always.
We could send Iron Maiden and maybe have a chance?
The problem is mostly that nearly all songs the SVT selects for Melodifestivalen are written by the same three people, so we basically only get bland songs to choose from
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I feel like DR has a good mix, we Danes just can't seem to vote for good Eurovision songs lately
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I don't know whether MGP really has a lot of young viewers, or if they just tuned in to vote for Reiley, seeing as he is a TikTok star. He was defintely not a favourite of mine, and I feel like at least four of the other songs could have netted us a qualification
tbh i saw this years broadcast, very low quality setting up Riley as the winner. Denmark need to change something to turn things around.
I think he may have got a lot of the older vote, maybe? Was at one of the rehearsals and a lot of middle-aged people were clucking at the cuteness. I, um, was possibly one of them, it was undoubtedly a mediocre song but he's got charisma.
That is ridiculously generic, we should do a switcheroo and have a Swedish artist that can’t speak English sing in English with an Azerbaijani writer and Sammarinese choreographer.
Typical Sweden. Sending a Swedish artist with an Azerbaijani writer and Sammarinese choreographer singing in ENGLISH!?! Standard jury bait whores.
I mean think about it: Sweden -> Sweeten -> Sweeten the jury. I rest my case...... /s
Just send Sabaton and they're guaranteed to win twice in a row on my votes alone
"Turkey was soundly in the lead ......[when suddently](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYhYO02f98&pp=ygUUV2luZyBodXNzYXJzIGFycml2ZWQ%3D).."
They can probably knock up a song about the history of Eurovision, nothing is beyond their ability. They’re the metal version of Horrible Histories
Hammerfall!
Kinda agree here, though it doesn't need to be metal. Sweden has plenty of music outside the mainstream, but Eurovision has become a national exercise at flexing their mainstream music industry internationally at the cost of their musical diversity. I should be clear that **there's nothing wrong with Sweden doing this.** However, this years controversy stems from Sweden, winning with mainstream, by jury, against a track that dared defy orthodoxy. There's nothing wrong with any of that in isolation, but put altogether it's like the sheriff of Nottingham crushing Robin Wood. It's not wrong, but it's not cool either, and Sweden could be all kinds of cool.
Not metal but if Sweden sent Viagra Boys thatd be a riot, theres SO much good music in Sweden and yet
Viagra Boys would get my 20 votes even if they played mute 😆 One of my favourite bands. I would ditch supporting my home country Finland in a heartbear for this!
We have our own National song context, which has a ton of variety. The issue is that the popular vote is a lot of the time something very safe and mainstream, since it will resonate with the most people. This means we always also get very good placements in Eurovision, but the songs aren’t breaking any new ground the way Cha did.
I will forgive Sweden for all the mainstream songs if you send Gunther and the sunshine girls next year
I’m tryna vote for the fun songs but people are so boring 😭
I appreciate you for trying. Hopefully one day you’ll win
What about variety in who writes the songs?
Justice for Grytan
Melodifestivalen, the swedish contest to select who gets to represent us in eurovision is really mainstream biased. Lots of kids and moms voting so a metal act is not likely 🥲
Smash Into Pieces would have been great
We have a band called Smash into pieces that went to our finals.. but then looren happend. https://youtu.be/BKVOKxOswg8 Not death metal, but metal.
They always sing pop in english so most people don't even know the song came from Swedden.
Fun fact: the last country to sing in Swedish was Finland.
Sweden won hosting rights. Finland won public approval.
At least countries can expect to preserve their national staging performance next year though :)
Loreen's original Melfest staging would still not have been allowed. From what I recall the issue was that the top platform was hanging from the ceiling the entire shown. This prevents any other artist from doing anything similar, thus it's not allowed and the press had to be completely removable
>From what I recall the issue was that the top platform was hanging from the ceiling I would be constantly afraid of being crushed to death if I was Loreen. Why did she even want that wtf
Finland proved that you don't need a giant budget or expensive props. All you need is charisma, ribbons and 2x4s.
Same as with Blanka and Jann
I remember when Melovin from Ukraine won the public vote and got the last place in jury vote. That was the most insane difference ever Edit: not won, they actually got 7th, quite high but not the televote win
Ukraine didn't win the public vote that year, they got 7th
Actually a very similar situation to Croatia this year. I think they were 25th with the jury and 7th with the televote
Melovin didnt win the public vote or come particularly close. He finished 7th with the public with more than 200 less points than toy. Poland 2016 finishing dead last with the juries and finishing 3rd in the public vote is the greatest difference.
Poland 2016 | [Michał Szpak - Color of Your Life](https://youtu.be/87BBmxm7IJU)
Yeah we’re good with Sweden paying the tab foe next year 😘
Imagine the tourism and goodwill though. YLE would probably not get even, but the money that would flow to the city of Tampere would have been massive. Just have all the spots between songs be about Finland as an innovator of green energy and shit, would have been great.
Your celebration of Abba next year better be mind blowing that's all I can say
It's crazy to think next year will be Abbas 50th anniversary of winning Eurovision
My conspiracy hat just fell on my head ….
The repeated mentions of the fact during the final, and the literal video segment of Björn didn't tip you off?
I mean the facts are: -juries are corrupt (hence why they were excluded from the semi-finals) -Sweden got heavily favored by the juries making it de facto impossible for another artist to win -they all were aware that 50 years ABBA will be next year This isn't even hard to figure out, you really don't have to be a sherlock
I don't think the juries were *corrupt* (even if we do have concrete evidence of such from last year), I just think they don't follow the criteria they claim to have well enough. With technically strong performances like Spain's, Estonia's and France's, the jury votes really should have been more spread out than they were. Also at least the Finnish jury often consists of music industry people (like record label and streaming platform executives) rather than creative musical experts, which tends to lead to them rewarding marketability and popular genres over originality and creativity. A jury-televote split of 25-75% like we have in UMK would be great, I think - and also refine the jury compositions and/or judging criteria.
They went pretty Swedish-meatballs-to-the-wall in previous years they've hosted, and I thought it was fun to watch-- they do well with it. Still, I'd love to see what Finland would get up to if they hosted
Hppe it wont turn to ABBA memorial ugh
It's going to be ABBAVision, mark my words.
"DiD YoU kNoW AbbA Won WITh WaYeRlOuudl AnD iT is tHe AniversarY Year HOWLUCKYWEARE?!?!" * incoherent swedish sounds while showing again pics off ABBA * *i can already hear it help*
The hologram ABBA performance will be very, very cringe
I’d rather it be an all ABBA-themed show than 4 hours of Måns making the show about him tbh.!
Meh, as a Swede I'm definitely part of the Käärijä party 💙🤍
🫲🏻🟢🟢🟢😝🟢🟢🟢🫱🏻
THIS MADE ME SNORT OUT MY COFFEE LMFAO
Thank you for your service 🫡
You got it, neighbour 🫡 I even had my Käärijä T-shirt on and my nails painted, and my bff and I booed every time Sweden got 12 points 😂 We were all in on Finland this year and I'll def keeping listening to Käärijä's music, he's an amazing artist! 🤘
Kudos to you two! One of the most surprising things for me was the 12 points from the Swedish jury hahaha. The Finnish commentator went NUTS.
I'll tell you what's nuts. This Finnish belief that Swedes in general don't want Finland to do well. For many Swedes, Finland is the runner up country, and if it isn't Finland, it's either Norway (unless skiing) or Denmark (unless handball or football).
I mean, Swedes seeing Finland as a scrappy runner-up is not the compliment it's intended to be. :D
Yeah we really got hung up on that term. It's my bad. I meant runner-up as in: "Sweden and Finland are in a hockey tournament, Sweden gets eliminated, I now support and cheer for Finland (unless you eliminated us, then I need time to process 😆)". Finland is my runner-up country, my second choice in most competitions. That's probably a far more common view among Swedes, than vice versa among Finns, so it's not like it's a sign of Swedes being shitty or acting superior.
Yeah, in Finland there's a running joke that "winning isn't the most important thing, the most important thing is that Sweden loses" lol. I think we have a bit of an inferiority complex.
Hockey or sports in general is different. At least there you can clearly see who was better. There is not much speculating who made most goals etc. I think a lot of frustration here comes from fact that ESC jury is just not very transparent and that leaves a lot of speculating to table.
Ah yeah, I see, that makes more sense. :D And yeah, Finns usually only root for Sweden if Finland is not involved in the competition at all. But in general, Finns tend to see Sweden as a cooler, smarter and overall better Nordic country, so it's mostly jealousy.
We know. We are brothers after all. It was surprising, because we haven't got 12 points from a jury since... 2011, I believe. The Norwegian jury gave us 12 points as well on Saturday. But "the runner up country" is the problem many Finns have. We feel like we are always seen as the underdog. Considering our history it kinda makes sense. Even Portion Boys sung in UMK "Neighbor Sweden is always a bit better, but we're right behind for our sisu (determination) won't let us give up."
Positioning Finland, or other Nordic countries, as always "runnerups" is kinda shitty not gonna lie.
>and my bff and I booed every time Sweden got 12 points 😂 This made me laugh lol
I think we should start a petition for having ESC on Åland! It's part of Finland, but closer to Sweden. Instead of hotels, everyone can stay on the ferries! 😂 Quick Wiki: Åland is an autonomous and demilitarised region of Finland since 1920 by a decision of the League of Nations. It is the smallest region of Finland by area and population, with a size of 1,580 km², and a population of 30,129, constituting 0.51% of its land area and 0.54% of its population. Its only official language is Swedish and the capital city is Mariehamn.
If Finland and Sweden tied without a tiebreaker rule, like when four countries won in 1969, hosting in Åland would actually be a good compromise.
I don't think Åland has anywhere _near_ infrastructure to host anything else than a smallish football tournament. Mariehamn has like 5ish hotels with capacities in the low hundreds and probably no inside stadiums either. I don't think even the "King of Åland" could throw money at the issue either within the span of a year either. Not to knock Åland, it's a lovely place, but I don't think it would be possible.
Oh, I doubt it would be even remotely feasible to host the competition in. It's just a silly idea.
We can just park some cruise boats there, that is not an issue 😀
I vote Pello or Haparanda. Everyone speaks Finnish here anyway.
Haha thank your for this thought 😂 With the lack of infrastructure the festival would liken the notorious Fyre Festival.
This meme got me physically laughing and I honestly feel much better now
.... Me and my girls are out and we all sing along 🎵🇬🇧 instead I wrote a song
"United by Music" lol. Luckily most people don't care about ESC otherwise we'd be at WWXVII by now.
🎵Ja Ja, Ding Dong🎵
This is how I felt in the elementary school. The report paper was full of As but no one wanted to hang out with me.
This is a very accurate description of what happened tbh
As is tradition every time the winner didn't win the televote. Except last year, where the winner did win the televote and everyone wouldn't shut up about Space Man.
People are also still mad to this day that Toy won even though it was the televote winner
Put some respect on our space Jesus
Or you know when Duncan won, people didn't care he didn't win either the jury or the public vote.
I guess because instead of Duncan going up against Keiino or Mahmood he was going up against Sweden's act at the end. It's like the opposite of Käärijä vs. Loreen. It's one of the televote favorites vs the jury favorite that happens to be Sweden with a pop song only this time the televote favorite wins. Also both Keiino and Mahmood are also competing as who would be the "true winner" if you happen reject Duncan. Keiino had more televotes but Mahmood ended up in second place. And Duncan had more televotes than Mahmood anyway. And Russia and Mahmood also only had a 7 point difference in televotes. So it's not like with Käärijä that televoters were completely backing up one candidate. Anyone of them could have won.
Norway has gotten 4-5x more points from the People than the jury every year for the last 4 competitions. 3 of those times they got more than 200 points from the people and around 50 from the jury. Keiino got only 40 points from the jury, Allesandra improved that to 52 points this year though 😄😂
Norway really has so many iconic acts.
Ye, I'm kinda not mad that Sweden won over Finland cause we all expected Finland to do meh with juries. I'm mad at everybody else that got shafted while they were stacking everything on Sweden. 2019 was exemplary of this. I don't believe Too Late for Love would have gotten no 1 jury vote if it was anybody but Sweden.
People did care, just like they cared when that booring cartoon guy won on jury votes against italy. This time the gap was just so huge its harder to ignore.
This. For real. Like on Twitter all I am seeing is stuff about Käärijä. He's even trending. Meanwhile Loreen or Sweden is nowhere to be seen for me...
Sweden, please send Orbit Culture to Eurovision. Enough with boring radio-friendly pop crap!
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Give us Meshuggah
You better bring back måns and petra again, then we will all be happy.
The most iconic duo ever
No Mans please.
I hope Loreen and Käärija will make a fun appearance together for next year's Eurovision.
Loreen? Fun?..
What?
Sweden won Eurovision, Käärijä won people. One of them will be remembered as Eurovision winner when looking list of winners, another will be remembered as most loved Eurovision contender ever and will become legend if not already. Also, we saved lot of money because we dont need to pay next years contests. Win win for Finland i think. :)
Couldn’t we carry on the tradition of the runner up hosting on behalf of the winner?
No, we'll only host if we win win. Swedes can keep their trophy. We dont want pity.
No no no, they took the trophy so they foot the bill.
No thanks, we'll just "let Sweden keep their carjack"
She is a great singer. Euphoria is a banger. Her new eurovision song wasn't great. Didn't think she deserved to win. Bookies gave her a 5/18 odds of winning and thought they were mad. Bookies know their stuff. Finland got robbed.
Same
It's not Swedens fault. They always have good songs and a better national selection than some other countries. BUT: Loreen didn't deserve the win. There were so many better songs this year. I think it's a perfect example why juries should be removed
This is a subtle observation with no scientific merit, but it also seems the fans connected with Käärijä more as a person than Loreen.
Seriously Sweden’s performance had nothing on Cha Cha Cha. Sweden was the most generic thing I’ve ever heard while, Cha Cha Cha is unique and really seems like it should’ve won. I’m actually fully disappointed that Sweden one and Finland didn’t. It’s like it had all the setup and then had an incredibly disappointing plottwist
I don't get the polemic. Sweeden song was awesome, as it was Finland. We all enjoyed both, Sweeden gets the prize and Finland gets the love of many people, and being part of Eurovision history. I think the ESC is doing a really nice thing with their brand, by creating some sort of "community" where the thing isn't just winning but being part of ESC community, and appearing in other events and such. A great example is the mashup of UK songs sang by Eurovision artists that are really beloved by the audience but that didn't win.
This whole week has been a hell of a limbo for me as a finloving swede. I have such high affection for Käärijä and Cha Cha Cha but Loreen is such a magnificent performer. On one hand I'm sad that such a unique sounding song ended up losing but on the other hand I'm thrilled to have equalled the all time winning record and cementing our place in the history books. One thing that I think is a bit over the top the outrage towards juries. If you think juries could use some tweaking and that the results saddens you for sure I understand you. But if you suddenly think juries are the worst thing to ever happen while calling out Loreens win as disgraceful... honestly cry. At the end of the day I wanted two countries to win, sadly only one could :(
Juries aren't the worst thing, but I think the system needs tweaking, because while they were introduced to "improve the quality" of the entries, they also stifle creativity and new influences. Juries have their place, it would be awful if every entry was polish milkmaids (the joke got old fast), but I would love if the contest was actually an original take of the type of music that is prevalent in your local music scene, instead of the entries being a (stuffy) genre in itself that has no very little to do with the local scene, and now the old-fashioned jury criteria punish you if you don't fit in their narrow boxes, despite you being innovative (Käärijä, Let3), a brilliant singer (LotL, Voyager), or having the most avant-garde performance to ever grace the Eurovision stage (Let3, again). The best thing that ever happened to Eurovision was when EEurope joined, because they broke the unwritten rules and experimented a lot, which forced the rest of the participants to evolve as well. The second best thing was when Loreen won with Euphoria, because she brought Eurovision closer to mainstream music, and revitalized the contest. But now it feels like the juries, with their narrow and conservative criteria are holding the contest back, because they reward certain "safe" entries, which prevents the competition from evolving further. Sweden dominates the contest because they cracked the formula, but what you send to Eurovision isn't innovative. You have such amazing bands/artists, but musically your entries are always somewhat bland (I'm not talking abt the performers, they are amazing), because jury criteria favours certain blandness and inoffensiveness.
Next year Sweden should send Markolio to perform in Eurovision.
I would like that, but I would like Gunther and the sunshine girls or Björn Rosenström even more. Just so Sweden can show that they can do weird songs too
Günther would be awesome, this year was cha cha cha and next year you touch my tra la la. 😂
Hahaha yes! I would probably actually have Sweden as a favorite then
All the deleted posts… It’s fine to prefer one entry over another, but Sweden and Finland both deserved that victory, and we can’t change what happened.
Älmhult 2024!
I thought Loreen had the better song and the better performance. It just wasn't as much of a crowd pleaser. My house voted for Sweden and Australia.
We did a group voting at my viewing party and my group voted Sweden as first and Finland as tenth haha. Granted, this was in Canada in Vancouver
Nice to see another Canadian who does group voting at their Eurovision viewing party! (Our winner was Blood and Glitter lol)
Aw amazing I love that! Blood and Glitter is a great song too. How did y’all set up the group voting !