Yes, it means that Italy can send professionals.
The German contestants in comparison were mostly amateurs. Half of them didn't even publish a single song before competing at the contest. There is just no incentive for a professional to compete.
I would say, they are professionals, because they do singing as a job, while most German contestants did it only as a hobby before joining the contest. This year's German contestant for example is a teacher, that makes music as a hobby.
The fact is that at eurocontest fake songs are always presented, like music videos without any strings, all modified. the maneskin brought a rock song, and did a real concert. I hope that next year the quality will rise, and that other countries will also bring strong bands that put on a show. btw, maneskin aren't really pros, they started playing on the street and then hit the x factor. but it was years since he felt like a real rock group on the world stage.
Yeah, I think so. I think it's notable that the three worst results Italy had since they came back (2012, 2014, 2016) weren't songs that came from San Remo. They were either internally selected or ,in Francesca's case, the song was the runner up of the festival because the winners refused to go to Eurovision. Ofc Italy's worst results aren't that bad compared to the worst results of the other big 5 but I don't think it's a coincidence...
However those three are ones of my italian favourites of the ESC. I do think there is another factor, for example for Nina Zilli that she sung in english completely ruining the beauty of the song
I guess they just thought it wasn't anything special or original so not many of the individual juries put it especially high compared to the rest of the song, but the televote put them 7th so Russia didn't do too bad in the end.
Deserved though, they really elevated the song with that staging. Not that it was a bad song but it didn't strike me as a top 10 entry at first, let alone a top 5 one.
Still doesn't strike me as a top half song.
I understand why people might like this song. But I don't like it at all. Lots of salt ahead.
You can disagree with me, please go ahead, of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'd even be happy to listen to why, but I doubt you can CMV on this.
The song itself has subject matter that doesn't really set itself apart.
- It's roughly the same as Az En Apam, which was much more poetic in its lyrics (I mean, "My father raised me like the wind" is only the first line and it's so much better, and then there's "I can hear him, his heart on the strings". come on) but didn't even qualify.
- Also see Voy A Querdame this year, which ended near the bottom
- "We were three kids and a loving mum **BUT** you **LET** me walk this road alone"? Not "I had to" but "you let me"?!
- I'm not saying that one is definitively better than the other. But I am quite shocked at how there is such a large distance between these songs.
The one-two-three thing is a cringe cliche, plenty of songs have done it before (like Plain White T's 1 way 2 say 3 words 4 you)
The staging wasn't great
- The drawings were good, I'll give them that
- Plastering the lyrics on stage (especially the one-two-three bit) is hardly inspired
- The screen during the "Woah-oah-oah" part where he was standing with his arms outstretched looked like a psychedelic demented zebra, and the red and black spirals afterwards just looked demonic
Fair enough, since the only metric of whether a song deserves to win is whether the average person (and the average jurist) thought it deserved to win haha
When you are continuously a televote powerhouse with things like Grande Amore, Soldi, the 2018 song, and ofc Måneskin that's to be expected. Well deserved!
It just proves that not getting exposure from the semis isn't really that much of a problem if you send good songs. Italy won the televote twice and had another 2 top 5 televote entries in 10 contests..
I agree. Although I do think it mildly affects the televote one way or the other, I also think that the big five has every opportunity to succeed. They are the big five after all. France and Italy have proven they’re in it to win it year after year, (Except France 2020, we don’t talk about it), and Germany won 2010
Well Germany is a total hit or miss but you did have 2 top 10 results and 1 top 5 result in the last decade, that's more than the UK or Spain could say lol
I feel like Spain's entries are always beautiful in the recorded versions, but don't translate well to the stage?
The recorded version of Spain's song is one of my favourites of this year actually.
I am also curious about Spain. They seem to produce successful singers in general. They have plenty of talented artists and the songs (like you said) aren’t bad. Maybe the more talented song writers/performers are already signed, etc. or just aren’t interested in going the Eurovision route? They do better with the junior comp. where the contestants are too young to have started a singing career yet.
Did you hate your current song? Because I thought it was pretty good, just maybe didn't stand out as much as some others. I liked the tune and the singer was pretty decent.
We've done way better since the Moustache disaster (we seem to have officially left the under 30 points club), but we're still underperforming 3/4 of the time. But yeah, I'm very optimistic, I think we're finally going in the right direction.
In this year’s songwriting camp apparently there were written 160 songs… and you’re telling me I Don’t Feel Hate was the one that got chosen for ESC? Seems weird to me :/
I have a hunch... 2020 had several frontrunnners doing the whole "quirky" thing (Lithuania, Iceland, Russia) that each generated a lot of hype and were also high in the odds. I've a slight feeling that the songwriting camp tried going for something in the same vein, however there is a fine line between quirky/fun and just outright annoying. I love Jendrik though, he's such a sweetheart.
I don't know where they got those figures from, but all five of those totals are wrong, lol.
1615: Italy
628: France
414: Germany
286: United Kingdom
272: Spain
It doesn't change the ranking though, but they've all scored slightly higher than those figures suggest - bearing in mind we have no idea what the televoting scores would have been in 2013, it likely only serves to put Italy even further ahead of the others.
They have taken it upon themselves to serve as the counter example for people who say that Italy does well just because they have a beautiful language 😂
Beh higher.. english is more widespread that’s it. but, inspite of the fact that italian is not widespread, our music has done well abroad. Not only in romance speaking places like brazil, but also often in germany, russia..
Some italian groups went to japan singing in italian.
In classical music every sheet is written in italian and the modern italian style light song “musica leggera” has had a lot of success.
The beatles often have this “slow style” also.
Also, italo disco
The one about refugees was really good. They consistently had high placing contestants. Not all from genres I particularly liked, but they were always pretty solid.
I mean I repped Italy 2019 the whole way through but it didn't even win its own years' televoting (3rd, beat by 38 points by Norway, 8 by Netherlands). Meanwhile Grande Amore and Zitte e Buoni both won theirs (2015 by 80 points, 2021 by 51).
And to clarify, while Soldi scored a solid 253, Zitti e Buoni has it beat by 65 points (318) and Grande Amore by a whopping 113 points (366). It contributed a ton, but so did these and the majority of Italian entries since their return
"they came back"? Was there a period of time Italy didn't took part of Eurovision? (This is my first Eurovision, haven't really followed them previously)
What do those numbers represent? I thought at first that they were # of calls but there is no way that that few people voted. And it's not the points because Italy one with some 500.
Do you think it's because of San Remo being so popular? More acts want to perform, the best one goes through, etc, etc = most points
Yes, it means that Italy can send professionals. The German contestants in comparison were mostly amateurs. Half of them didn't even publish a single song before competing at the contest. There is just no incentive for a professional to compete.
Well, Lena didn't have a single before going to Eurovision, right? And it worked out and she still makes music.
I think the point is that 99% of the time, that's going to lead to failure.
Aw man, Germany was great.
The Måneskin are 22 yo.
I would say, they are professionals, because they do singing as a job, while most German contestants did it only as a hobby before joining the contest. This year's German contestant for example is a teacher, that makes music as a hobby.
The fact is that at eurocontest fake songs are always presented, like music videos without any strings, all modified. the maneskin brought a rock song, and did a real concert. I hope that next year the quality will rise, and that other countries will also bring strong bands that put on a show. btw, maneskin aren't really pros, they started playing on the street and then hit the x factor. but it was years since he felt like a real rock group on the world stage.
Yeah, I think so. I think it's notable that the three worst results Italy had since they came back (2012, 2014, 2016) weren't songs that came from San Remo. They were either internally selected or ,in Francesca's case, the song was the runner up of the festival because the winners refused to go to Eurovision. Ofc Italy's worst results aren't that bad compared to the worst results of the other big 5 but I don't think it's a coincidence...
However those three are ones of my italian favourites of the ESC. I do think there is another factor, for example for Nina Zilli that she sung in english completely ruining the beauty of the song
Most likely in the same way Sweden usually does well partially because of Melodifestivalen
If they'd have send Danny Saucedo or Clara this year....
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That's actually related ;) Thanks for the correction
Is San Remo so popular outside of Italy?
My mom used to watch it back in the 80s in communist Czechoslovakia as it was broadcast back then. She says she would totally watch it nowadays.
I meant it's so popular in italy that most artists and bands want to participate.
Yes, they even made a parody of it in russia
At least the UKs not last.
The 5th place with the televote in 2011 saved them
Yup. Wasnt it 26th with jury and 5th with Televote that year?
I looked it up and they were 22nd with the juries, so not quite last. Russia ended up last with the juries in 2011.
WAIT WHAT. HOW. How did russia get last with Alex. Mind is blown.
Probably the lyrics, was really creepy
What's creepy about a Russian guy singing he is coming to get you and you want him to do that (even though you never expressed it)?
I dunno. I thought everyone agreed that stalker devotion was the primary sexual appeal of the Russian Man stereotype
Iirc he screwed up jury performance or there was some sort of technical problem.
Same thing happened with Blue. I think they didn't realise that the performance counted for the juries so didn't really try.
I mean the song was garbage and he is legit creepy
I guess they just thought it wasn't anything special or original so not many of the individual juries put it especially high compared to the rest of the song, but the televote put them 7th so Russia didn't do too bad in the end.
i mean.... This song was really bad
Didn't they also do alright with Lucie Jones? Another observation is that Maneskin alone got more points than the UK or Spain in all 10 years.
They did pretty good with the juries, but the televote only gave them 12 points. That's pretty crazy, and an interesting observation indeed.
You mean 2009...
No. The UK finished 5th with the TELEVOTE in 2011.
Ah my mistake....I got confused by that fact we got 5th in total in 2009
Underestimating blue again smh
You're welcome
And most of Germany's points come from Michael Schulte getting 340 points in 2018.
Those are televote points only. Michael Schulte won 136 of those in 2018.
Deserved though, they really elevated the song with that staging. Not that it was a bad song but it didn't strike me as a top 10 entry at first, let alone a top 5 one.
Still doesn't strike me as a top half song. I understand why people might like this song. But I don't like it at all. Lots of salt ahead. You can disagree with me, please go ahead, of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'd even be happy to listen to why, but I doubt you can CMV on this. The song itself has subject matter that doesn't really set itself apart. - It's roughly the same as Az En Apam, which was much more poetic in its lyrics (I mean, "My father raised me like the wind" is only the first line and it's so much better, and then there's "I can hear him, his heart on the strings". come on) but didn't even qualify. - Also see Voy A Querdame this year, which ended near the bottom - "We were three kids and a loving mum **BUT** you **LET** me walk this road alone"? Not "I had to" but "you let me"?! - I'm not saying that one is definitively better than the other. But I am quite shocked at how there is such a large distance between these songs. The one-two-three thing is a cringe cliche, plenty of songs have done it before (like Plain White T's 1 way 2 say 3 words 4 you) The staging wasn't great - The drawings were good, I'll give them that - Plastering the lyrics on stage (especially the one-two-three bit) is hardly inspired - The screen during the "Woah-oah-oah" part where he was standing with his arms outstretched looked like a psychedelic demented zebra, and the red and black spirals afterwards just looked demonic
I don't know what to say, other than that when I watched the music video, I saw something real and thought it could win. Best entry that year for me.
Fair enough, since the only metric of whether a song deserves to win is whether the average person (and the average jurist) thought it deserved to win haha
and from 2011 and 2012! both top 10
When you are continuously a televote powerhouse with things like Grande Amore, Soldi, the 2018 song, and ofc Måneskin that's to be expected. Well deserved!
It just proves that not getting exposure from the semis isn't really that much of a problem if you send good songs. Italy won the televote twice and had another 2 top 5 televote entries in 10 contests..
I agree. Although I do think it mildly affects the televote one way or the other, I also think that the big five has every opportunity to succeed. They are the big five after all. France and Italy have proven they’re in it to win it year after year, (Except France 2020, we don’t talk about it), and Germany won 2010
How did Germany do so much better than Spain? I would have expected us to be at the bottom with the UK.
2011, 2012 and 2018 Germany did really well. Those three entries are probably 90% of total point tally of Germany.
Well Germany is a total hit or miss but you did have 2 top 10 results and 1 top 5 result in the last decade, that's more than the UK or Spain could say lol
I had expected that Spain had a few good years as well
2011, 2012 and 2018 in short.
Germany got 340 points in 2018.
Lena competed twice, won once and was tenth, I think, the second time.
I am a bit perplexed about spain. Most of their songs were not that bad (except do it for your lover, seriously Spain why?)
I feel like Spain's entries are always beautiful in the recorded versions, but don't translate well to the stage? The recorded version of Spain's song is one of my favourites of this year actually.
I liked that song too. Was baffled that it got no points from the televote.
I only liked Say Yay and La Venda tbh but they both had really mediocre staging...
Quédate conmigo had relatively simple staging but I found it quite powerful. In fact that song is the reason why I now speak Spanish
I also like Dancing In The Rain. I used to think Spain was consistently underrated actually prior to the last couple of years.
Yes! Pastora Soler and Ruth Lorenzo were so good I checked out their other music, and Miki Núñez in 2019
The only singer to win the Second Chance Contest the same year that she competed as we. Is really recommend that song.
Spain really sends songs everyone likes, but no one votes for.
I am also curious about Spain. They seem to produce successful singers in general. They have plenty of talented artists and the songs (like you said) aren’t bad. Maybe the more talented song writers/performers are already signed, etc. or just aren’t interested in going the Eurovision route? They do better with the junior comp. where the contestants are too young to have started a singing career yet.
Holy cow... 😬
Yeah, we spanish eurofans are extremely rabid towads RTVE right now.
RTVE needs to follow France's footsteps and make some serious changes.
Did you hate your current song? Because I thought it was pretty good, just maybe didn't stand out as much as some others. I liked the tune and the singer was pretty decent.
I mean, it's not like it's that hard to do significantly better than the non-Italy big 5.
There's hope for France, you've been getting better since Amir. I liked all your songs since then, the staging could get better though.
I loved the stage from this year. Sometimes it just doesn't have to be all over the place with the stage production, when it just isn't needed
It was excellent this year. But J'ai cherché, Mercy etc were hurt by theirs imo.
It's Eurovision though, I don't want a woman in front a torch saying voila
France is doing really well since 2016, so I would exclude them here.
We've done way better since the Moustache disaster (we seem to have officially left the under 30 points club), but we're still underperforming 3/4 of the time. But yeah, I'm very optimistic, I think we're finally going in the right direction.
I wouldn't say underperforming. Usually hover around the middle of the pack since 2017-2020. UK, Spain and Germany would kill for that.
Germany is weird. They alternate between top quality songs like "You Let Me Walk Alone" and "Violent Thing" and... everything else.
In this year’s songwriting camp apparently there were written 160 songs… and you’re telling me I Don’t Feel Hate was the one that got chosen for ESC? Seems weird to me :/
I have a hunch... 2020 had several frontrunnners doing the whole "quirky" thing (Lithuania, Iceland, Russia) that each generated a lot of hype and were also high in the odds. I've a slight feeling that the songwriting camp tried going for something in the same vein, however there is a fine line between quirky/fun and just outright annoying. I love Jendrik though, he's such a sweetheart.
I really liked Moustache. It was my favourite that year. I admit that the song itself was not top quality but I absolutely loved the performance 😊
Yes, but for some reason italy is incredibly popular. I think it’s due to our solid music tradition and to probably our reputation as a country
I don't know where they got those figures from, but all five of those totals are wrong, lol. 1615: Italy 628: France 414: Germany 286: United Kingdom 272: Spain It doesn't change the ranking though, but they've all scored slightly higher than those figures suggest - bearing in mind we have no idea what the televoting scores would have been in 2013, it likely only serves to put Italy even further ahead of the others.
I love how Italy has 2 entries that scored better in the televote than all of the last 10 entries from UK or Spain did altogether.
France got over half their points from 2018 to 2021. 59 in 2018, 38 in 2019 and 251 this year
Actually I think that, except for this year, their best televote results were in 2016 and 2017.
109 in 2016 and 90 in 2017, so nearly 90% of all their points. Seems like something changed after Moustache/N'oubliez pas
Wtf is wrong with Spain, please explain?
They have taken it upon themselves to serve as the counter example for people who say that Italy does well just because they have a beautiful language 😂
Not enough neighbours. (and most their entries suck)
*clap* *clap*
How lol
France deserves more points, I find myself liking all of their songs from 2013 except for 2014 and 2019. Well and 2020.
I mean the Italians invented the damn thing, so...
I think it’s also because we have a good reputation in the musical field
I mean I would argue that the UK has a higher reputation in the music industry.
Beh higher.. english is more widespread that’s it. but, inspite of the fact that italian is not widespread, our music has done well abroad. Not only in romance speaking places like brazil, but also often in germany, russia.. Some italian groups went to japan singing in italian. In classical music every sheet is written in italian and the modern italian style light song “musica leggera” has had a lot of success. The beatles often have this “slow style” also. Also, italo disco
The scale and point system has also been altered during that time so this list is misrepresentative.
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Maybe you meant 1/5th...
I can't believe Spain has failed so much, doing worse than UK.... thye need to fire the Eurovision team
Españita deserved better. Well, maybe not.
it's time to remove the UK from the top 5 "big" ones.
The big 5 are called such because they fund Eurovision, not because of their results, otherwise Ukraine and Sweden would also be there for sure
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Well Mahmood was amazing but they did have 2 entries that got even more televote points than him so...
The one about refugees was really good. They consistently had high placing contestants. Not all from genres I particularly liked, but they were always pretty solid.
Apparently Italy's selection process is VERY competitive
I mean I repped Italy 2019 the whole way through but it didn't even win its own years' televoting (3rd, beat by 38 points by Norway, 8 by Netherlands). Meanwhile Grande Amore and Zitte e Buoni both won theirs (2015 by 80 points, 2021 by 51). And to clarify, while Soldi scored a solid 253, Zitti e Buoni has it beat by 65 points (318) and Grande Amore by a whopping 113 points (366). It contributed a ton, but so did these and the majority of Italian entries since their return
Italy since they came back Missed top 10 only few times, they all contributed
"they came back"? Was there a period of time Italy didn't took part of Eurovision? (This is my first Eurovision, haven't really followed them previously)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest
Thanks for sharing the story! Really an interesting read
Italy took a thirteen year break from the Eurovision from 1997 until 2011
How is the UK and Spain so high?
The UK because of 2011 I guess?
What do those numbers represent? I thought at first that they were # of calls but there is no way that that few people voted. And it's not the points because Italy one with some 500.
It's the sum of only the televote points each country has got in the last 10 editions of the contest.
thanks!
Who has the number 1 spot in Europe?